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3995 Banking AGE and
two proposed

Gold

2000 (Financial March 1 - April 22, 1935

State

Domining to discuss sald attention

Tells UNITED all United States
There thing - halppened 4/18/35

Appropriation hote

phones HOW all provision Fgo SMITH
or AND Expression lot #3431 be their the personel

services was authoristed by 3/11/35

(
60 A C

Hobbie

Sele States Savings Bondo
Davoo de Mexico

See Wilver

bank of

fee Subjitisation

156

Dank is Princes

Sea Subsidiation

25,26pm

1543472

166.109.109

Benk for International detailments
des Publifination

120333

-ABook Page

Air Mail Contracts
Foreign contracts increase in Post Office appropriation
bill discussed by HMJr with McAdoo 4/22/35
Alcohol Tax Unit

IV

253 A

HMJr transmits to Carter Glass Mellott's report with
relation to Civil Servine status of personnel affected
by proviso found in Emergency Appropriation Act of 1935
3/4/35

294

Service

31+

List of enforcement officers who qualified under Civil
Executive Order consolidating agencies engaged in

31+

enforcement

See also Berney, Edward E.
Allotment Board

195,205,
207,249,252

See Unemployment Relief
-

American Bankers' Association
See Lending Agencies, Interdepartmental Committee of
Report of Banking subcommittee on memorandum listing

Eccles' nine proposals for changes in Title II of

1935 Banking Act and American Bankers' Association's
two proposals

Appert, Jean (Financial Attache', French Embassy)
Sees Coolidge; HMJr suggests appointment through State

Department to discuss gold situation 3/4/35
Tells HMJr lowering of United States interest rate
"best thing ever happened" 4/18/35

118

7

246

Appropriation Acts
O'Mahoney (Senator) phone s HMJr of provision that "no part

of any Appropriation Act shall be used for personal
services not specifically authorized by law" 3/11/35

66 A-C

-BBaby Bonds

See United States Savings Bonds
Banco de Mexico

See Silver
Bank of England

See Stabilisation

Bank of France

See Stabilization

225,245,250
154

11,13,14,
25,28,68,
154,157,158,
166,169,209

Bank for International Settlements
See Stabilisation
Coant Guide
Sea North

12,111

- B - (Continued)
Book

Banking Bill
Glass advises HMJr "not to defend banking bill too hard"
Granducci tells HMJr "their financial man heard FDR has
not endorsed" bill
HMJr tells FDR Glass told him FDR was only interested in
a unified bank examination and permanent plan for
Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation: FDR "explains"

IV

3/18/35
Berney, Edward E.

Page

109
110

114

See Investigations, Treasury Personnel

Black, Hugo

At lunch with FDR and HMJr - discussing ship mail contracts
4/15/35

208

Board of Tax Appeals

Bulkley (Ohio) asks HMJr to weigh carefully Bulkley's

recommendation of Judge Ferneding when FDR fills vacancy
3/6/35

Doughton recommends Mills Kitchin (son of Claude Kitchin,
former Chairman, Ways and Means Committee) 3/6/35

44 A-B
44 C-E

Boler, James P. (Deputy Collector of Internal Revenue,
Omaha, Nebraska)

See Political Activities of Treasury Employees
Bonus

Garner tells HMJr no one knows when bonus will be considered
4/9/35

169 D-E

taken out of politics"

115
117

FDR tells HMJr "question of soldier legislation must be
Wright Patman discusses plan with HMJr

Garner asks, "Should part of bonus be paid in form of
Baby Bonde? Are they transferable?" HMJr says "No, but
a special issue would be salable and transferable" 3/15/35

90 D-E

FDR asks HMJr to make statement; does not want Hines to do

this; FDR wants to suggest changing $1000 certificate for

a Baby Bond 4/18/35

FDR, HMJr, Hines, Bell, et cetera, discuss prospects 4/22/35
HMJr appears before Congress

Brown, Clyde A. (See also Book II)
Disbarment order rescinded at Senator Glass' request 3/23/35
Byrd, Harry (Senator, Virginia)
States in newspapers he can't get any information on
spending of Public Works Administration funds from
Treasury HMJr (with Bell present) tells him Treasury
will always consider "anything done in the way of
spending money an open book" 3/5/35

HMJr phones him Treasury is "turning everything upside
down to get the information" 3/7/35

247
251

253+
147

13 E-F
48 J-K

-C

Coast Guard

See North Island, San Diego, California

171

- C - (Continued)
Book

Page

IV

25

Cochran, Merle

See Stabilisation

Congress, Statements before, by HMJr

HMJr on Treasury and Post Office Appropriation Bill, 1936
3/2/35

5+

HMJr on Anti-Smuggling Act 3/8/35
HMJr on Social Security Act amendment permitting

52 C

annuitants to receive pension at 65 even though still

at work - 4/18/35
HMJr on World War Veterans' adjusted service certificate
claims 4/22/35

248

253+

Consolidated Gas Company
See New York City

Costigan, Edward P. (Senator, Colorado)
With LaFollette and Wagner discusses support of FDR
with FDR

113

Coughlin, Father
Murphy tells HMJr Father Coughlin has confidence in him
alone in Washington - 3/5/35
Couzens, James (Senator, Michigan)

Phones HMJr about (1) publicity feature of income tax
returns, (2) Mellon tax case - 3/7/35

See also Federal Housing Administration
Crane, J. E. (Deputy Governor - Federal Reserve Bank, New York)

Tells HMJr he is resigning 4/22/35

8

48 A-B,

66 D-I

209

256 E

Crowley, Leo

J. F. T. O'Connor tells HMJr he has finished investigation;
thinks situation is bad - 3/12/35
HMJr tells O'Connor by telephone and by letter to confirm
or withdraw charges - 3/22/35

Customs, Bureau of
HMJr, Oliphant, and Conboy discuss Goldberg smuggling case
4/22/35

67

144

256 A-D

-Dde Laboulaye, Andre (French Ambassador)

HMJr conveys to him satisfaction over smuggling agreement

at St. Pierre 4/9/35

175

HMJr consults with - before departure for France;
de Laboulaye asks about working through Bank of France,
which is a private bank; promises to see HMJr upon return
4/10/35
Disarmament

FDR discusses with HMJr on his wedding anniversary 3/18/35

Distilled Spirits Institute
See Whalen, Grover

Doughton, Robert L. (Congressman, North Carolina)
See Board of Tax Appeals 3/6/35

182
112

247

44 C-E

D - (Continued)
Book

Page

IV

89

Douglas, Lewis W.

In speech says "United States spending threatens currency

and middle-class destruction 3/15/35

FDR's unpublished statement concerning article

90

-EEccles, Marriner
Bank stock transferred to Eccles Family Investment

Corporation - Marriner Eccles still owning 9% of this
corporation; Glass reported to have enough votes to
prevent Eccles' confirmation; both Oliphant and Wyatt

(General Counsel of Federal Reserve) advised Eccles on
what his holdings could be - 3/20/35
HMJr tells FDR above; FDR suggests letter to Senator
Fletcher, explaining Eccles Family Investment Corporation
and advice of Oliphant and Wyatt; HMJr tells Eccles

139

3/22/35

143

to get confirmation without a scrap 4/17/35

234 At

Bulkley tells HMJr he will talk further to Glass and try
Emergency Relief
See Unemployment Relief

Exchange Stabilization Fund

See Stabilization

FFarley, James
See Long, Huey

36

Federal Housing Administration
FDR suggests Cousens to succeed Moffett, then make Murphy

209

Michigan Senator - 4/15/35
HMJr suggests to FDR that Winfield Riefler investigate

244

HMJr asks Moffett if this is satisfactory to him; Moffett

252,252 A-B

organization, preparatory to successor to Moffett 4/17/35

says "yes" 4/22/35
Federal Intermediate Credit Banks
Consideration of H. R. 6151 authorizing issuance of
currency by - 4/17/35

235

Federal Reserve Bank, New York

Crane, J. E. - Deputy Governor in charge of Foreign
Department - resigns 4/22/35

256 E

Financing, Government

3/4/35 - Offering of 20-25-year 2-7/8% Treasury bonds
of 1955-60 in exchange for Fourth Liberty Loan 47%
bonds of 1933-38 called for redemption 4/15/35 (Third called Fourth 4's); and 5-year 1-5/8% Treasury notes
of Series A, 1940, in exchange for Treasury notes of
Series c, 1935, maturing 3/15/35

34 H

- F - (Continued)
Book

Financing, Government (Continued)

a) Subscription books will close 3/8/35
b) Subscriptions aggregate $513 million for 5-year

1-5/8% Treasury notes; approximately $555 million
of Fourth Liberty Loan bonds called for redemption
on 4/15/35 have been exchanged for Treasury bonds
3/9/35

c) Allotments 3/18/35
d) Subscriptions aggregate $1,332,000,000 for

IV

Page

52 B

52 D

115 A

2-7/8% Treasury bonds 1955-60, offered in exchange

for Fourth Liberty Loan bonds; books will close 3/27/35

3/25/35

e) Allotments 4/2/35

147 A
156 A

See also United States Savings Bonds

First Liberties ($1 billion, 900 million) to be called

for redemption 6/15/35 (actual call 4/22/35 - Book IV,
page 256 It)

87

Panama Canal Loan Bonds (2%) and Consols of 1930 (2%)

to be retired and free gold resulting from reduction
in weight of the gold dollar to be used - 3/11/35
Last of Liberties will be called on 4/15/35 for redemption
on 10/15/35 (HMJr tells Early); $8 billion will have been
called in little over year; HMJr wants to make radio talk
4/9/35 - (call, page 209 P-Q; talk, page 209 A-0)
Kennedy consulted about private flotations in the offing

so HMJr can figure out next refunding - 4/9/35
$4 Billion 8 Fund

92

170
170

See Unemployment Relief
France

7,246
175,282

See Appert, Jean
See de Laboulaye, Andre

See Stabilization
Fraser, Leon (President - Bank for International Settlements)
See Stabilization

12,111

-GGlass, Carter (Senator, Virginia)
See also Berney, Edward E

Advises HMJr "not to defend banking bill too hard"
HMJr tells Glass, exclusive of Rogers' expenses, total
cost of Stabilization Fund is less than $40,000
Tells HMJr he's only Cabinet member trying to do honest job

53,55,58,
59,83,91,109
109
109
227

4/16/35

Gold

See Stabilization

Goldsborough, Senator (Maryland)
McNary recommends to HMJr for Federal Deposit Insurance

Corporation - 4/22/35

Government Financing
See Financing, Government

256 G-H

-HBook

Hansen, Alvin

See Stabilization

IV

Page

214,227,
244,250

Holland

See Stabilization

158,159,
178,187

Home Owners' Loan Corporation

HMJr asks Fahey to confer with him immediately on two
features of bill: (1) Home Owners' Loan Corporation
can accept applications for another 60 days and (2)

bill now calls for $2 billion, 500 million; so they
can report to White House 3/7/35

48 G-I

Amendment sponsored by Blanton and Ramspeck concerning

residence of employees in Congressional districts in
which office is located discussed by HMJr and Fahey
3/12/35

Plan to "open up" for another 60 days discussed by HMJr
with Bulkley 4/17/35
Howe, Louis
See Unemployment Relief

71 A-C
234 C+
207

-IIncome Tax Returns

Publicity clause
See also Book III

Couzens discusses with HMJr

48 A-B,
66 D-I

Doughton told if Senate passes after March 15, it's still

71 D-E

effective 3/12/35
Harrison told "number of months before statement could be
made after law is passed"
Investigations, Treasury Personnel

71 F-G

Berney, Edward E.

Glass tells HMJr Senate Finance Committee unanimously
recommends "firing" 3/11/35

HMJr tells Glass, unofficially, not a single charge of
Berney's political activities can be substantiated
HMJr's letter to McKellar 3/12/35
McKellar's letter to HMJr, giving testimony before
Committee on Post Offices and Post Roads

53

55

58

59

HMJr tells Glass Farm Credit Administration will take

Berney if McKellar won't object; Glass thinks it "all

83

nonsense"

Glass tells HMJr McKellar has promised not to interfere
further - 3/15/35
Glass further assures HMJr McKellar will not interfere
with a job elsewhere; HMJr still wants McKellar's written

109

Letter to Glass for advice after further attack by McKellar

227

91

assurance - 3/15/35

on floor of Senate; Glass upset - comes to see HMJr 4/16/35

K

Book

Kitchin, Mills

See Board of Tax Appeals 3/6/35

IV

Page

44 C-E

L-

LaFollette, Robert (Senator, Wisconsin)
With Wagner and Costigan discusses support of FDR with
FDR

113

LeHand, Marguerite

Interrupts FDR and HMJr with motion picture camera FDR's reaction
Lending Agencies, Interdepartmental Committee of

Report of Committee 3/7/35
a) Consideration of Hopkins amendment to pending Works

207
49

Relief bill permitting Reconstruction Finance

Corporation, Home Owners' Loan Corporation, and Farm

Credit Administration to loan to state rehabilitation
corporations
Report of Banking subcommittee 3/19/35
a) Consideration of a memorandum from American Bankers'

118

Association listing Eccles' nine proposals for
changes in Title II of 1935 Banking Act and their own
two proposals

b) Discussion of composition of Open Market Committee:

HMJr insisting present Board is not fit to be Committee

Housing report of Tom K. Smith discussed 4/10/35

184

Leon, Rene

HMJr authorizes Crane to "drop the word" Leon has never
been asked by Treasury for advice - 4/5/35
Liberty Bonds
See Financing, Government
Lindbergh Kidnapping Case
See New York Daily News

158 Q

244

Liquor

HMJr tells Speaker Byrnes Treasury has prepared series of
bills and sent to Doughton 4/11/35

Long, Huey

192

9

Moran (Secret Service) told to drop investigation 3/5/35

McKellar (Senator), Chairman of Committee on Post Offices
and Post Roads, transmits Long's charges concerning
Treasury to HMJr and asks for statement 3/6/35
Long's statement concerning New York City Post Office bid,

Farley, et cetera, 88 read into Congressional Record
HMJr tells McKellar he finds no reference to Treasury in
Long's charges 3/7/35

HMJr'a second and fuller letter 3/7/35
Garner, at Cabinet: "Don't give New Orleans $1.00 until
they get rid of Huey Long" 3/22/35

35

36+

45

46+

143

--MBook

Page

IV

10

Manley, Basil
HMJr asks him for copy of report on New York City
Federal Power project; FOR has asked HMJr for decision

in this pending contract 3/5/35

McCarran Amendment

FDR discusses with LaFollette, Costigan, and Wagner
HMJr tells Robinson he is answering McCarran letter on

silver today and will send Robinson a copy 4/11/35
a) Robinson says he will insert in Record

114

196-201

b) Actual letter

McConihie, Mr.

Conversation with HMJr concerning job in Treasury and so
lower rent for house
McKellar, Kenneth (Senator, Tennessee)
See Berney, Edward E

24

35,45,46,53,
55,58,59
83,91,
109,227

See Long, Huey

Mexican Eagle Oil Company

Crane (Federal Reserve) and Cattern (Bank of England)

discuss sale of silver 3/6/35

Mexico

19

225,245,250

See Silver

Moffett, James A. (Federal Housing Administration)
See Federal Housing Administration

244,252

Murphy, Frank

FDR suggests to HMJr Couzens to succeed Moffett as head
of Federal Housing Administration and Murphy as possible
Senator from Michigan - 4/15/35

209

-N-

National Grain Yeast Corporation
Chronological Diary: March 15, 1935 - October 2, 1935

93+

New York City

FDR asks HMJr for decision on pending Federal Power

project; HMJr asks Basil Manley for report thereon 3/5/35
LaGuardia told by HMJr rate offered by Consolidated Gas

10

Company for the Government light and power in New York

90 A-B

LaGuardia suggests to HMJr Federal Government and New York

169 A-C
209 G-H

is to be accepted - 3/14/35

City both sign at same time - 4/9/35

4/15/35

New York City Post Office

36,46

See Long, Huey
New York Daily News

Dewell, introduced by Farley, discusses reopening of
Lindbergh case with HMJr from narcotics angle - 4/17/35
North Island, San Diego, California
HMJr discusses with General MacArthur plans for Coast

Guard there - 4/9/35; letters concerning, attached

244

171

-0Book

Page

Oliphant, Herman

Three drafts of "a further word on money and price"
3/16/35

IV

140+

O'Malley, G. W. (Collector of Internal Revenue - Omaha,
Nebraska)

See Political Activities of Treasury Employees
Open Market Committee

Eccles testifies on Hill 5 Governors of Federal Reserve
Banks should advise Federal Reserve Board; only a
week ago Eccles had agreed with HMJr on 2 Governors
and 3 members of Federal Reserve Board, which plan was
presented at White House; HMJr upset at "broken faith"

in Eccles - 3/5/35

Committee report 3/13/35
Banking subcommittee discusses make-up of Committee 3/19/35;

HMJr insists present Federal Reserve Board is not fit to
be Committee

10
72

118

HMJr suggests to Burgess that Open Market Committee "lighten

its burden of security" and sell in good times; Burgess
does not agree that this is good strategy - 4/5/35

Glass asks HMJr whether he's satisfied with make-up of
Committee; HMJr says "yes" 4/11/35
Meets with HMJr; First Liberties discussed 4/17/35

158 M-P
228
238

-P- Patman, Wright
Discusses bonus with HMJr

117

Poland

Zoltowski, Financial Counselor, and Gruber, President of
Postal Savings Bank of Poland, call on HMJr 4/15/35
Political Activities of Treasury Employees
Boler, James P. (Deputy Collector of Internal Revenue Omaha, Nebraska)

See O'Malley, G. W. - Political activities

202

230

O'Malley, G. W. (Collector of Internal Revenue - Omaha,
Nebraska)

Political activities considered by HMJr 4/16/35
Pyke, Bernice (Collector of Customs - Cleveland, Ohio)
Politically active in assisting Davey against
Harry Hopkins 3/14/35
Report on (by Dick Maher, Cleveland Press)

2304

87
88

248 C

HMJr tells Bulkley no action will be taken - 4/22/35
Lewis (Senator, Illinois) discusses investigations in

New Jersey and HMJr tells him he has appointed a Committee

to go into all this; "practical politicians": Helvering,

201 D-F

tomorrow; Jones doesn't like it - wants at least 30 days

158 E-T

Gibbons, Ross, Julian, and Jackson - 4/13/35
Public Works Administration
Jesse Jones discusses with HMJr desire of Public Worke
Administration that Reconstruction Finance Corporation
buy today securities maturing tomorrow and then sell them
leeway - 4/8/35

- P - (Continued)
Book

Page

Pyke, Bernice (Collector of Customs - Cleveland, Ohio)
See Political Activities of Treasury Employees
-RReconstruction Finance Corporation

See Public Works Administration - 4/8/35
Relief Appropriation

IV

158 R-T

See Unemployment Relief

Riefler, Winfield

HMJr suggests to FDR that Winfield Riefler investigate
Moffett's organization; FDR agrees; McIntyre annoyed
4/17/35

244

Roosevelt, Franklin Delano
HMJr has supper at White House on FDR's wedding

anniversary 3/18/35; they discuss general disarmament.

112

Roosevelt, James

See National Grain Yeast Corporation

Rosenman, Judge

HMJr talks to Higgins about job for Judge Rosenman's

sister - 4/18/35

245 E

St. Pierre, Island of

HMJr expresses gratification concerning - to French
Ambassador 4/9/35

175

See also Stabilization
FDR shown Crane-Cariguel conversation; laughs at HMJr

for thanking French for St. Pierre cooperation and
immediately offering them a credit of $5 million

Secret Service
Improvement of White House protection discussed 3/4/35

Silver (arranged chronologically)
Oliphant's letter to Senator McCarran concerning
continuation of provisions of Sections 6, 7, and 8 of
Silver Purchase Act of 1934 - 4/11/35

205

35

196

Mexican Ambassador complains of advance in price of

silver to HMJr; HMJr resents this, after all the

assistance United States has given Mexico - 4/16/35
Confidential cable from London heavy purchases of silver
by Banco de Mexico rumored for possible sale to
Federal Reserve - 4/17/35
HMJr tells FDR he is sending for Mexican Ambassador to

arrange for sale to United States of their London
silver; tells him also President of Banco de Mexico
has been fired - 4/22/35

"Silver and India" - article by F. F. Holsinger in

New York Times discussed by FDR and HMJr 2/21/35

225

245

250
253

"Silver price and the stabilization of sterling" -

memorandum from Starr to Knoke, both of Federal Reserve

Bank, New York, about Holsinger article - 4/22/35

254

- S - (Continued)
Book

Page

Social Security Bill

Josephine Roche reports amendment to bill permitting
people over 65 to continue working, pay no taxes,
and collect pensions, would increase cost to Treasury
considerably - 4/17/35
HMJr, Josephine Roche, et cetera, testify concerning

IV

before Ways and Means Committee 4/18/35
Speeches, Radio, by HMJr

Speech on 3/4/35 as part of Anniversary Day broadcast
HMJr assisted by Bell, Upham, and Gaston: Bell's figures
incorrect; HMJr has to do speech on redemption of
Fourth Liberty Loan Bonds himself, at last minute
Actual speech 4/14/35
Comments on

LaGuardia congratulates HMJr on reducing interest and

the public debt - 4/15/35

Speech on the external dollar discussed by HMJr and
Chester Crowell 4/16/35

237
248

34 A-G

208

209 A-F

209 I-0
209 G-H
226 A-C

Stabilization (arranged chronologically)

HMJr tells Warren if business continues downward for

another two weeks, he will seriously consider raising
price - 3/1/35

HMJr tells FDR sterling is down and francs up; $18,000,000
of gold in London; HMJr suggests offering francs in
Paris and shipping gold over in payment, FDR agrees 3/4/35
Conversations between Crane (Federal Reserve, New York) and
Cariguel (Bank of France) - 3/4/35 and 3/5/35

1

7

11,13

For first time Cariguel clearly implies devaluation
of franc may be necessary to adjust position vis a vis
sterling

Cariguel also says belga is all right; lira continues

to be under pressure
Conversation between Crane and Fraser (Bank for International
Settlements) 3/4/35

HMJr phones FDR of French support of sterling - 3/5/35...
Crane tells HMJr of conversation with Cariguel - 3/6/35.
Sterling is very weak; reaction of Scandinavian countries;

12
10
14

South Africa; Governor of Bank of France considering

offer of credit to British (5 billion francs) Cariguel
thinks it should be Franco-American move; Crane assures
"sympathetic hearing"; HMJr sees FDR; phones Crane

decision is "no real authority for pact but sympathetic

support to objective" - which is to be conveyed to French

after they make up own mind on the suggested move

Harrison tells HMJr of misinterpretation of FDR's remarks

"purchasing power of dollar should be lifted further to

ease burden of debts"
Merle Cochran transmits through Straus Bank of France's

proposal concerning decline of sterling and joint offer
of loan to Bank of England
Conversations with Harrison concerning

22,23

25+

27 A-N

- S - (Continued)
Book

Page

IV

28

Stabilization (Continued)
Crane and Cariguel discuss American decision Cariguel
expresses disappointment United States and France

cannot make joint offer -- 3/13/35
Copies of cables between Harrison and Bank of France

concerning joint offer

684

Panama Canal Loan Bonds (2%) and Consols of 1930 (2%)

to be retired and free gold resulting from reduction
in weight of the gold dollar will be used - 3/11/35
HMJr tells Glass that, exclusive of Rogers' expenses,

total expense of Fund is less than $40,000
Fraser (Bank for International Settlements) cables Harrison
situation in Belgium very serious
HMJr tells Oliphant to have all plans ready for embargo
3/19/35

Memorandum from John G. Laylin presenting various plans
(attached) considered by Treasury and Federal Reserve

92

109
111

116
211

Banks to lessen shock to United States and world if France
and other gold-standard countries have to suspend payments

in gold - 3/20/35

124

March, 1935

149

HMJr's reports, in longhand, to FDR on board "Farragut"

Cariguel and Crane discuss Belgian situation - 3/28/35
Catterns and Crane discuss gradual liquidation of
Treasury's sterling balance and Belgian situation 4/4/35
Cariguel and Crane discuss pressure on Dutch and Swiss
currencies 4/5/35
Altschul and HMJr discuss Swiss, Dutch, and Belgian

situation 4/5/35
Crane explains Swiss and Dutch situation to HMJr 4/9/35.

154
157
158

158 D-G
159

HMJr tells Crane (after agreement concerning smuggling

at St. Pierre) to tell Bank of France they can use

United States account up to $5 million any time exchange
goes below gold point, HMJr wants to work in close accord
with French and has won over State Department 4/9/35
Crane-Cariguel cable conversation

HMJr tells Hull of his plan to aid French - 4/9/35

Holland wants us to buy gold direct from them at 35 per
ounce; FDR says OK for 10 million - 4/10/35 - Cables
attached

166
169

170

1784 187+

When asked to act on Allotment Board, HMJr tells FDR he

thinks he can best serve by getting American dollar bloc
to include North and South America and China - 4/15/35.
Cariguel (Bank of France) asks Crane, "Do you think
exchange stabilization is any nearer?" HMJr tells FDR,

205

who advises reading Ottawa conference report on money
and monetary statement by English after London Economic
Conference. FDR hopes to get various European countries

to agree and then get England to join; HMJr "No stabilization

possible until one of important countries is flat on its

back" - 4/15/35

209+

- S - (Continued)
Book

Page

Stabilization (Continued)
State Department transmits to Coolidge for review
proposed memorandum on exchange stabilization

prepared by Alvin Hansen for diplomatic and consular
representatives abroad - 4/15/35
Wallace tells HMJr Hensen of State Department has

IV

214

consulted Ezekiel on plans for stabilization; wants

United States to join France and urge 15% devaluation;
HMJr resents this interference - 4/16/35
Jones (Marvin) proposes to take $800 million away from
Fund and issue currency against it to establish two
central banks for farmers, HMJr discusses this with
Bulkley 4/17/35
a)

After meeting in HMJr's office, calls Jones
and tells him Treasury will oppose

227

234 C
236

Hansen memorandum sent to Coolidge discussed by HMJr with

Hull; Hull didn't know about it - will handle - 4/17/35

HMJr tells FDR about Hansen memorandum; FDR angry 4/22/35
Switzerland

See Stabilization

244
250
158

-Third Party Movements

FDR discusses with HMJr apropos Tugwell - 3/18/35
Tugwell, Rexford

Viner's report of activities in Chicago discussed by HMJr
with FDR 3/18/35

113

113

-UUnemployment Relief

$4 Billion 8 Fund
Bell should approve spending and not FDR, so HMJr thinks
asks for appointment for Bell and himself with FDR
Allotment Board - If Ickes is Chairman, Hopkins may quit
4/11/35

FDR asks HMJr to be member of Allotment Board. See

Stabilization - 4/15/35

HMJr sees FDR about chairmanship - suggests Joe Kennedy
FDR suggests Frank Walker, thinks Kennedy is too
temperamental; FDR shows HMJr Louis Howe's chart "which
doesn't make sense"; FDR says he will appoint an

Assistant to President in charge of Public Works 4/15/35

Program to be announced by FDR in four parts - 4/22/35

(1) Frank Walker to accept all applications through
National Emergency Council

(2) Ickes to head Allotment Board with super committee
FDR ex-officio member, HMJr, Ickes, Wallace, Hopkins,
Kennedy (HMJr does not think Kennedy will accept)

143
195
205

207
249

U - (Continued)
Book

Page

Unemployment Relief (Continued)

Program to be announced by FDR in four parts (Continued)
(3) Hopkins to head a follow-up committee, which HMJr

IV

249

cannot understand

(4) Existing agencies to handle all projects except
rural housing and rural electrification
Kennedy tells HMJr he will accept only if Ickes is fired

and he knows FDR will not do that
United States Savings Bonds

Go on sale 3/1/35; pictures taken
FDR purchase

252

2

3+

Order blank (sample)

$6 million sold in first 13 days - 3/4/35

34 I

-

Wagner, Robert (Senator, New York)
With LaFollette and Costigan discusses support of FDR
with FDR

113

Warren, George F.

See Stabilization

1

Watson, "Jim"

Case discussed by HMJr at lunch with FDR 4/15/35 FDR says

file after Finkelstein case

208

Whalen, Grover

Phones HMJr about "glass business" and "institutional
advertising" 4/11/35

Tells HMJr Distilled Spirits Institute wants to do some
"positive advertising" HMJr suggests they explain and
popularize regulations - 4/18/35

Wheeler, Burton K. (Senator, Montana)
Discusses Penwell, Collector of Internal Revenue in
Montana and former owner of progressive newspaper with

HMJr 4/5/35

190 A-B

247

158 A-B

1

March 1st.

H.M.Jr. saw Professor Warren to-day and told

him that if business statistics continued to go down for another
two weeks he would seriously consider raising the price of gold.
H. M. Jr. telephoned Mr. Phillips, of the State
Department, and told him that he had seen in this morning's
New York Tribune a story by Henry F. Grady on Stabilization
of World Currency. H. M. Jr. told Mr. Phillips that he feels
it would have been courteous to show it to him first. Phillips
said he knew nothing about it and that Grady had no right to do

it.

2
March 1st

Baby Bonds went on sale to-day. H.M.Jr.
went to the White House at 10:30 and a movietone was made

of the President, James Farley and himself - the President
buying six $25.00 Baby Bonds for himself and five grand
children. Attached is a copy of the script which was used.
In the afternoon Speaker Byrnes, the Vice-President
and Mr. Farley came over to Mr. Morgenthau's office and pictures
were again taken showing the Speaker and the V.P. buying Baby
Bonds.

$100

2A

3

TREASURY DEPARTMENT

Washington
FOR RELEASE, MORNING PAPERS,

Friday, March 1, 1935.
2-28-35.

Press Service
No. 4-37

President Roosevelt is scheduled to buy the first of the United States
Savings Bonds which were placed on sale today at 14,000 post offices throughout
the country. The Chief Executive will buy the bond from Postmaster General

Farley today (Friday) after Secretary of the Treasury Morgenthau has told
Mr. Roosevelt how this new form of Government security affords individual

investors the first opportunity to buy this kind of security since World War
days. The purchase at the White House is scheduled for 10:30 A.M.

As head of the Post Office Department, which will be the sales agency for

the new bonds, Mr. Farley will explain how they will be handled at post offices.
He has instructed postmasters and their staffs to give every assistance to
people who wish to purchase the bonds. Although it is not known what donomina-

tions the President will buy, the first run of all units-$25, $50, $100, $500
and $1000- have been laid aside for a Presidential purchase.
The various denominations are designated by prefix letters and numbers.

The first $25 bond bears the designation of "Q1", while the letters, L,C,D and M

are used, respectively, for the $50, $100, $500 and $1000 units. Thus the first
bond of the $100 denomination would be "C1". These designations will simplify

handling of the bonds at postoffices during their sale and at the Treasury,
where a record of each transaction will be kept.
The Post Office Department has supplied securities to all post offices
where the bonds will be on sale. Because of the interest shown in this new form
of Government obligation, however, postmasters in many cities asked for an
additional supply. The original total sent to New York, Omaha, Washington and

-2-

2B

other places was doubled upon request of the postmasters in those cities.

Although definite allocations of bonds have not been made, as there is no limit
on their total sale, the Post Office Department distributed these new savings
bonds on the basis of the sale of Treasury war savings certificates. They were
also issued in small denominations.

Many of the postmasters' requests for an additional supply of the bonds
contained orders for the two larger denominations-the $500 and $1000 units.
Word that many people had announced their intention of buying the maximum

amount allowed to one individual in a single calendar year - $10,000-has been

received at the Post Office Department from many sections. At the station
in the Treasury Building one would-be buyer insisted on leaving his check for
$7,500, which is the cost of ten $1000 bonds at the issue price. Each $1000
bond costs the purchaser $750 when he buys it, and the investment increases by

one-third if held the full ten years to maturity.

3
SCRIPT FOR WHITE HOUSE PURCHASE OF
UNITED STATES SAVINGS BONDS

(Note: I understand that the President does not want anything

written for him. I have given him some lines in the script
simply to have atmosphere and sequence in its preparation.)

THE PRESIDENT: Mr. Secretary, I wish you would tell me about
these new United States Savings Bonds I have
been reading about.
SECRETARY MORGENTHAU: Gladly, Mr. President. These bonds are

designed as a convenient and profitable investment for the savings of individual investors.

As you know, since the World War the Government

has done its financing by large bond issues which
have been taken by banks and corporations. Now
the Treasury has decided that every citizen should
have a chance to buy sound Government securities
and become a partner in his Government.

They are issued in denominations as low as $25.00.
The other units are $50.00, $100.00, $500.00 and

$1,000.00. The $25.00 bond will cost you $18.75
to-day. It grows in value every year, and if you

hold it for the full 10 years you will increase
your investment by one-third. That applies to
all other denominations.

THE PRESIDENT: But suppose I need the money in a hurry?
SECRETARY
MORGENTHAU:

In case of emergency, the Government will redeem

your bond at any time after 60 days from the date
of issue. You cannot be deprived of payment
through loss, theft or destruction. The Government
will always replace them. Your name is written
on the face of the bond when you buy it and the
United States Treasury will have a record of your
ownership. It will even keep a bond for you if
you request it.

THE PRESIDENT: That sounds attractive to me. I want some.
Now, how do I buy them?

POSTMASTER
GENERAL

FARLEY:

Mr. President, the United States Post Office
Department is the sales agency for these savings
bonds. You buy them from me and it is as simple
as buying a Money Order. Throughout the Country

4

these bonds are on sale in about 14,000 post offices.
I have advised Postmasters and their staffs to give
every assistance to people wishing to buy these
securities. In many post offices there will be
separate windows and special officials to handle the

sale and to help people in every way. If there is
anybody who does not know how to buy them, all he or
she has to do is to ask at the nearest post office
about United States Savings Bonds.

ORDER BLANK FOR UNITED STATES SAVINGS BONDS
Enclosed find check, draft, or money order forNumber

Amount

$25 United States Savings Bonds at $18.75
$50 United States Savings Bonds at $37.50
$100 United States Savings Bonds at $75.00
$500 United States Savings Bonds at $375.00
$1000 United States Savings Bonds at $750.00

$

Total, $
Name

Register in the name of and send to

Street address
State

(City

Mail this blank with remittance to Savings Bond Section, U.S. Treasury, Washington, D.C. Your personal
check will be accepted, subject to collection, or you may send bank draft or money order. Do not send currency
by mail. Make checks payable to U.S. Treasury.
Cut on this line

TABLE OF REDEMPTION VALUES SHOWING HOW UNITED STATES SAVINGS BONDS INCREASE IN VALUE EVERY 6 MONTHS
$18.75

Issue price

$37.50

$75.00

$375.00

$750.00

$37.50
38.00

$75.00
76.00
77.00
78.00

$375.00
380.00
385.00
390.00
395.00
400.00
405.00
410.00
415.00
420.00
425.00
430.00
435.00
440.00
450.00
460.00
470.00
480.00
490.00
500.00

$750.00
760.00

Redemption values after the issue date:
$18.75
19.00
19.25

First year
1 to 1 1/2 years
1 1/2 to 2 years

38.50
39.00

19.50
19.75

2 to 2 1/2 years
21/2 to 3 years
3 to 3 1/2 years

3% to 4 years

4 to 41/2 years
4 1/2 to 5 years
5 to 51/2 years
5 1/2 to 6 years

6 to 61/2 years

6% to 7 years
7 to 7% years
7% to 8 years

8 to 81/2 years
8 1/2 to 9 years

9 to 91/2 years
91/2 to 10 years

Maturity value

79.00
80.00
81.00

39.50

20.00
20.25
20.50
20.75
21.00
21.25
21.50
21.75
22.00
22.50
23.00
23.50
24.00
24.50
25.00

40.00
40.50
41.00
41.50

82.00
83.00
84.00
85.00
86.00

42.00

42.50
43.00
43.50
44.00
45.00
46.00
47.00
48.00
49.00
50.00

87.00

88.00
90.00
92.00

94.00
96.00

98.00
100.00

U.S. GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE

UNITED STATES
SAVINGS BONDS

800.00
810.00
820.00
830.00

840.00
850.00
860.00
870.00

880.00
900.00
920.00
940.00

960.00
980.00

1,000.00

02-16737

UNITED STATES TREASURY

Your Government Offers

770.00

780.00
790.00

PENALTY FOR PRIVATE USE TO AVOID
PAYMENT OF POSTAGE, $300

SAVINGS BOND SECTION

OFFICIAL BUSINESS

For Regular Investment of Savings
*

$25
$18.75 increases in ten years to
$50
$37.50 increases in ten years to
$100
$75.00 increases in ten years to
$500
$375.00 increases in ten years to
$750.00 increases in ten years to $1000

HOUSEHOLDER,
Local

BUY AT POST OFFICES

OR ORDER BY MAIL
Form 509

INFORMATION ON UNITED STATES SAVINGS BONDS

5x

Treasury and Post Office Departments

Appropriation Bill, 1936
HEARINGS
BEFORE THE

SUBCOMMITTEE OF THE

COMMITTEE ON APPROPRIATIONS

UNITED STATES SENATE
SEVENTY-FOURTH CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
ON

H. R. 4442
A BILL MAKING APPROPRIATIONS FOR THE TREASURY
AND POST OFFICE DEPARTMENTS FOR THE
FISCAL YEAR ENDING JUNE 30, 1936
AND FOR OTHER PURPOSES

Printed for the use of the Committee on Appropriations

UNITED STATES

GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE
119242

WASHINGTON 1935

MALLIN

201

atmontages solllo
ager Hig noitsigorgqA
TREASURY AND POST OFFICE DEPARTMENTS
APPROPRIATIONS BILL, 1936
SATURDAY, MARCH 2, 1935
UNITED STATES SENATE,
SUBCOMMITTEE OF THE COMMITTEE ON APPROPRIATIONS,

Washington, D. C.
SUBCOMMITTEE OF THE COMMITTEE ON APPROPRIATIONS
CARTER GLASS Virginia, Chairman
KENNETH McKELLAR Tennessee

MILLARD E. TYDINGS, Maryland
PATRICK McCARRAN, Nevada
JOSEPH c. O'MAHONEY, Wyoming
WILLIAM GIBBS MCADOO, California

The subcommittee thereupon proceeded to the consideration of the

FREDERICK STEIWER, Oregon
PETER NORBECK, South Dakota

bill (H. R. 4442) making appropriations for the Treasury and Post

L. J. DICKINSON, Iowa

other purposes.

Office Departments for the fiscal year ending June 30, 1936, and for

TREASURY DEPARTMENT

Ex OFFICIO MEMBERS FROM COMMITTEE ON POST OFFICES AND POST ROADS

PARK TRAMMELL Florida

The subcommittee met, pursuant to call, at 10:30 a. m. in the
committee room, Capitol, Hon. Carter Glass presiding.
Present Senators Glass (chairman), McKellar, Hayden, McCarran, O'Mahoney, Steiwer, Norbeck, and Dickinson.

THOMAS D. SCHALL Minnesota

CARL HAYDEN, Arisona

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Secretary, we are beginning to consider H.R.
4442, making appropriations for the Treasury and Post Office De.

partments. I have your letter of February 4, stating what you

would like to have done, and I though perhaps you might want to

come before the committee and make any supplementary statement
that you may please.
Secretary MORGENTHAU. Senator Glass, I have a very short statement that I would be glad to read, but before doing so. I think that

KENNEDY F. REA, Clerk
II

Mr. Bell, Commissioner of Accounts, has an item. Possibly you
would like to take that up while we are waiting.
before

The CHAIRMAN. Yes.

STATEMENT OF D. W. BELL. COMMISSIONER OF ACCOUNTS AND
DEPOSITS, CONSOLIDATION OF THREE APPROPRIATIONS

Mr. BELL Last year, Mr. Chairman, in considering the needs of
my office, consultation was had between the then Director of the
Bureau of the Budget, Mr. Douglas, and the Secretary of the
Treasury. It was decided that we needed to substantially increase
our force to take care of the large increase in the work. It was estimated at that time that we would require about $40,000; but, in view
of the fact that we have to get specially qualified people, we decided

that we would ask for half of it last year and the other half this

year.

OWER

The CHAIRMAN. What particular provision of the House bill are
you discussing now
Mr. BELL The office of the Commissioner of Accounts and Deposits.

2

TREASURY AND POST OFFICE APPROPRIATION BILL, 1936

TREASURY AND POST OFFICE APPROPRIATION BILL, 1936

The CHAIRMAN. Have you the bill there?
Mr. BELL. I have the bill.
The CHAIRMAN. Proceed, Mr. Bell.
Mr. BELL. As say, we asked for half of it last year, and the other
half this year. The reason we did not ask for all of it last year was
due to the fact that we require in our work specially qualified people,
particularly ones that have had & number of years experience in
governmental fiscal and accounting procedure. We did not feel that
we could use the full amount the first year as it is difficult to secure
qualified personnel. This year, we asked for about $27,000, and the
House committee reduced it by $16,960. In their report, they said
that they were eliminating the employees on the emergency roll with
annual salaries of this amount. I have since talked to the clerk of
the House committee, explained it to him, and he has admitted that
that was apparently a mistake, that the amount paid from these
emergency appropriations amounts to only $7,000.
These employees are urgently needed. The work and duties of
the office have greatly increased due to the large increase in the
Government activities. To show the necessity for additional help.
four employees of my immediate office, in tha last year, worked more

Senstor MOKELLAH. Are you going to put on some more people in
that!

Mr. BELL That is merely a transfer of employees, amounting to

about $37,000, which makes a total of about $288,000; and that was

reduced in the Budget to $283,000. That is the amount that the
Secretary is now asking for.
Senator McKELLAR. You want an additional $25,0001

Mr. BELL It is not additional. It is additional over the House
allowance, but it is the same as last year plus the transfer- a little

less, as a matter of fact.
The CHAIRMAN. As you, Senator McKellar, are chiefly interested

in this other matter, we will let the Secretary go on with that,
unless Mr. Bell wants to call attention to something else.

Mr. BELL I think the Secretary might proceed, and after

STATEMENT OF HON. HENRY MORGENTHAU, JR., SECRETARY OF
THE TREASURY

(Secretary Morgenthau was accompanied by Messrs. Guy T. Helvering, Commissioner of Internal Revenue: Arthur J. Mellott, Deputy Commissioner of Internal Revenue, in charge of the Alcohol Tax
Unit: and D. W. Bell, Commissioner of Accounts and Deposits.)

tion of three appropriation items. The immediate office of the Commissioner of Accounts and Deposits has an appropriation for salaries;
the Division of Bookkeeping and Warrants has an appropriation
for salaries, and the Division of Disbursements has an appropriation for salaries and expenses. They are all under my supervision,
and it would be advantageous if we could consolidate them into one
appropriation, having only one account on our books.

PAY OF EMPLOYEES OF ALCOHOL TAX UNIT

Secretary MORGENTHAU. On February 11, 1935, the President sub-

C

Furthermore, I have 40 people in my office. The Division of

Bookkeeping and Warrants has abort 70. It requires the time of one
clerk not more than 2 or 3 hours a week to take care of the time, the
leave, and the pay-roll work. In these two offices, we cannot possibly have clerks who get enough experience on such work to become
experts in that line. For example there are departmental time and
leave, and the pay-roll work. In these two offices, we cannot posif we had the consolidation we could have experts handling that class
of work, as they would be doing nothing else.
SECRETARY'S OFFICE

the present time, that office is $20,000 overcommitted, and it is absolutely necessary that it have those funds to carry on for next year.
As you know from experience, the Secretary has many functions to

Senator McKELLAR. The Budget estimate! I am talking about

last year. You have got $150,000, and it states a deficiency of $100,
000, That is $250,000 last year.
Mr. BELL That is right.

mitted to the Senate a request that an additional sum of $1,763,827
be added to the Treasury estimates for appropriation for next year,
and that this sum be made immediately available for payment for
personal services after November 30, 1934, as follows:
Bureau of Customs

Internal Revenue

Narcotle Bureau

Secret Service

$3,000
1,739,827
11.000
10,000

The purpose of this request was to enable the Treasury to pay the
salaries of approximately 1,300 employees of the several bureaus
specified from December 1, 1934, to June 30, 1935, no funds being

now available for this purpose because of the following proviso
which was incorporated in the Emergency Appropriation Act of
June 19. 1934

There is another small item, Mr. Chairman, for the Secretary's
office proper. It amounts to only $25,000. As I understand it, at

Senator McKELLAR. Was this $283,320 the estimate last year
Mr. BELL That is the Budget estimate, Senator McKellar.

he

finishes, you can go on with the others, if you would like to.

than 100 days each overtime.
The other matter under my office to be discussed is the consolida-

perform, and needs many assistants in this emergency, and it
vitally necessary that he have that additional amount.

3

is

Provided That after December 1, 1934, no part of the appropriation made
herein or heretofore made for the fiscal year 1935 shall be used to pay the
salary of any person formerly employed as investigator, special agent. senior
warehouseman deputy prohibition administrator. agent. assistant attorney,
Assistant prohibition administrator, senior investigator, deputy production ad.
ministrator, storekeeper, or gauger, or any other position in the Prohibition
Bureau or Alcoholic Beverage Unit Department of Justice, who was separated
from the service or such Bareau or Unit between June 10, 1933. and December
31, 1083, while in any such position in the Treasury Department onless and
until such person shall be appointed thereto as a result of AD open competitive
examination to be hereafter held by the Civil Service Commission

After obtaining the advice of the Attorney General as to the

effect of the proviso in question, and the decision of the Comptroller
General with respect to the availability of Treasury appropriations

4

TREASURY AND POST OFFICE APPROPRIATION BILL, 1936

TREASURY AND POST OFFICE APPROPRIATION BILL, 1936

for personal services, it has been determined that beginning December 1, 1934, no salary payments may be paid from existing appropriations to the several groups of employees covered by this estimate.
However, the Attorney General held in his opinion dated November
30, 1934, that-

operations in every part of the country and would have created
condition from which it would have taken many months to recover.

There is also a third reason, which is in my opinion of very
great importance, and that is the question of integrity of the civilservice system as it applies to Federal employees. The group of
employees affected by this proviso were recruited through regular

This proviso does not in express terms direct or require removal from the
service of the employees included within its scope. Nor does it. in my opinion,
do 80 by implication. The positions occupied by these employees and the
salaries appertaining thereto were created and established under general
statutes theretofore enacted by the Congress
The proviso does not purport to abolish these positions On the contrary.
its language clearly Indicates that the Congress did not intend to abolish them.
It provides only that after December 1, 1934, no part of the appropriation
made under the act or theretofore made for the fiscal year 1935. shall be used
to pay the salary of any employee falling within its provisions unless and
until such employee shall have been appointed to the position occupied by him
as a result of an open competitive examination thereafter to be held by the

civil-service channels and had, with scarcely an exception, acquired

civil service status through open competitive examination, plus a
very searching character investigation made by the Civil Service
Commission which resulted in the elimination of a majority of the

candidates who had successfully passed the written test. This is the
first time since the enactment of the civil-service law more than 50
years ago that the Congress has undertaken to encroach upon the

jurisdiction of the Civil Service Commission in the administration
of that law, or to undertake by statutory enactment to destroy
the civil-service status and right to employment of a group which
had successfully met and complied with the law and the regulations
of the Civil Service Commission with respect to eligibility for a

Civil Service Commission

In view of the foregoing and since It appears that the employees involved
had been appointed to their positions in the Treasury Department pursuant to
statutory authority at the time of the enactment of the proviso, It is clear
that the proviso does not change or affect their status as employees in the
Treasury Department, except with respect to the payment of their salarios

particular type of employment. I can think of nothing more

likely to demoralize and discourage the rank and file of civil-service
employees generally than for them to realize that the eligibility for
employment of any group of employees may be destroyed by congressional action at any time.
Senator NORBECK. Was that legislation on the appropriation bill?

Since this is so, It is my opinion that the proviso does not require the

Secretary of the Treasury to remove these employees from the service either

by outright separation or by a partial dismissal in the form of a furlough
For the same reason, and as a necessary corollary. It is my further opinion
that they may be continued In the service In a duty status without pay.

There were two outstanding reasons why it seemed to us urgently
necessary to retain the services of the employees in question:
1. There were thousands of cases in the various stages of investigation by these employees, and to dispense with the services of so large
a group would have meant an incalculable loss of revenue as well
as the practical abandonment of criminal prosecutions then in process. The advantage of the headway already gained would have been
lost and it would have been necessary to start all over with a new and
relatively untrained force, facing the handicap of uncompleted and

therefore unsuccessful previous attempts in the difficult task of

eradicating traffic in illicit and non-tax-paid alcoholic beverages,
2. Although, as I understand it, the Civil Service Commission announced new examinations for positions in the Alcohol Tax Unit
promptly after the enactment of the Emergency Appropriation Act,
it was not until November that the rating of examination papers
was completed so that eligibles could be certified to the Department
for appointment. In other words, the Department would have had
D period of less than 1 month to make new appointments to replace
the old men and to train the new men in the performance of their
duties. The work of investigators in the Alcohol Tax Unit is complicated and difficult. It requires months of experience before green
men can begin to do their work with reasonable effectiveness. To
have dropped those of the old force who failed to qualify on the
new examination would have put us under the necessity of attempting to enforce the liquor laws with a green and inexperienced force
and would unquestionably have resulted in a collapse of the enforcement effort which the Department was making at a most critical

time. This in turn would have resulted in an increase of illicit

Senator DICKINSON Yes.

C

Senator HAYDEN. It was a limitation on the appropriation, and
came within the Senate rules: but is there anyone here that can
answer this question It is my distinct recollection that at the time
Senator McKellar offered the amendment, that the Senate was
advised there were in the Alcohol Tax Unit men who had not passed
successfully a civil-service examination, but who had been blanketed
in from other appointments not made under the civil service. How
many were there of that kind!
Secretary MORGENTHAU. Mr. Chairman, Commissioner Helvering

and Mr. Mellott are both here. Mr. Mellott is the head of the

Alcohol Tax Unit, and I would like him to answer these questions,
if that is agreeable to you.
Senator HAYDEN. I would be very glad to get the information from
those who themselves know.
Senator McKELLAR Mr. Hayden, before you do that, would you
mind my asking the Secretary some questions regarding his statement, and then we will go into it with the other gentlemen, if you do
not mind.
Mr. Secretary, you believe in the honest and straight administra-

tion of the civil-service law. do you not
Secretary MORGENTHAU. Yes: do.

Senator McKELLAR Do you believe that it is compatible with an
honest and straight administration of those laws for men in your
Department to be appointed from out of the public without any
examination and put to work in your Department, and then, by an
Executive order, blanketed into the service without examination at

all! Do you believe in that

5

a

6

TREASURY AND POST OFFICE APPROPEIATION BILL, 1936

TREASURY AND POST OFFICE APPROPRIATION BILL, 1936

Secretary MORGENTHAU. I do not understand that that has been

rate. Possibly before you were the Secretary of the Treasury

done, sir.

President Roosevelt made an order separating some 1,850, if I remember correctly, or somewhere in that neighborhood, a very large
number of prohibition agents, not members of the tax service, but
prohibition agents, separating them from the service: and those men
had been separated from the service already, by the order of President Roosevelt, and in that order it was provided that they should
have the right to make application to return, if any were needed,
until January 30, 1934.
Someone in your office and I believe it was Mr. McReynolds arranged a committee composed of five men, whose names I do not
remember, but Mr. Berney, of your office, was the one in charge of
it. This all came out in the hearing, under oath. That committee

Senator McKELLAR But did you know that these men you speak
of, nine-tenths of them, maybe 99 percent of them, were appointed
by politicians and they are all despised politicians, up your way:
you do not like them: but, for instance, in my State, there are, as
remember it, 26 of these men who were appointed. J. Will Tayler
a Republican Congressman from Knoxville, and a very nice gentle-

man, appointed every one of them, not from the il-service rolls,
but such men as he wanted to appoint, all of them Republicans; and

then, after they were once appointed, Mr. Hoover put in a blanket
order, blanketing them into the civil service. They had not stood
an examination, or a competitive examination They were asked
questions by the Civil Service Commission after they had gone
in. but not before.

went over them and selected some is about that return,

all of whom were Republican prohibition agents. That was so

Now, is that the kind of civil service you believe in! I cannot

developed in the hearing.
Secretary MORGENTHAU If my memory serves me right, when
those men were checked subsequently, and during the hearing which
you conducted, was it not found that their politics, as between Republicans and Democrats, was about 50-501
Mr. MELLOTT. There was never any complete check made, Mr.

believe it, Mr. Secretary.
Secretary MORGENTHAU. Senator, if I may answer you, this is the
way I see my job, if may take a minute or two.
Senator McKELLAR. I shall be happy to have you do so.
Secretary MORGENTHAU. The Treasury is charged primarily with
two responsibilities, the collection of the revenue and the protection

Secretary, but we know that there were a good many Democrats

of that revenue. That is our primary work. We have a lot of
other things put on us, but that is our primary work; and in the

in the group.

collection and the protection of the revenue in connection with alcohol, we inherited 14 years' experience. The question of selling alcohol during those years came to be such that people laughed at the

law, and no one took it very seriously. A whole generation grew
up, taking it for granted they could break that law and no one
would punish them. No honest effort was made, as far as I could
tell. during those 14 years, to enforce the prohibition laws.
On the 10th of May 1934, I was faced with the situation that.
through an Executive order, I was given the entire responsibility
for the collection of taxes on alcohol and beer, and also the protection of that revenue against fraud; and I wanted to get the best
group of men I could to do that. I wanted to get men whose records
showed they were efficient and that they could do the job. If my
memory serves me right some of my people can check me-I
believe there were something like 3,500 men, originally, in the Department of Justice doing that work. You may stop me, Mr. Mellott,
if am wrong in any of my figures.
These men were combed over by civil service and by the Intelligence Unit of the Internal Revenue, to get the men whose records
showed they had been the most efficient. Out of the 3,500 men, we
picked the 1,300 men whose records showed they were the best. We

C

Senator McKELLAR. Mr. Secretary, all I can say is that there was
no testimony of that sort brought out before the Committee on Civil
Service, and I can further state to you that, of the 26 in Tennessee.
every single one of them, to my knowledge, was a Republican; and,
by the way. not only were they Republicans, but when they came
to stand this examination, every single, solitary one in Tennessee
failed to pass it.
You tell us that you appointed them because of their efficiency
Secretary MORGENTHAU. So did 80 percent of all applicants.
Senator McKELLAR You have got a capable list
Secretary MORGENTHAU, But 80 percent of them failed.
Senator McKELLAR. That may be so-that frequently happens.
Secretary MORGENTHAU I could not pass that examination myself.
Senator McKELLAR. There were a great many who did pass it. For

instance, in my State, you have got right now on that list ample
men who have stood that examination. You say you could not have
stood it There are ample men who stood that examination to perform the work which you need to have done in Tennessee. Mind
you, these men not only failed, but they were selected because of
politica and not because of their efficiency, and could not have been.
The proof of it is that they took the examination and failed, when,
if anybody ought to have passed that examination at least, if they

did not pick those men on a political basis, We picked them on
their record, and these men were kept. Some were taken by Secret

had ever had any experience- had that right.

Service, some were taken by Narcotics, some were taken by Customs,

this Congress to do this to restore to the civil-service rolls men
that had failed in their examination; and showing that the civil

but the bulk of these men. all of whom were field agents, were retained by the Alcohol Tax Unit, on their record of efficiency. That
was the motivating spirit back of my action.
Senator McKELLAR Mr. Secretary, I feel quite sure you are entirely sincere in making that statement, but you are entirely inaccu-

,

Under those circumstances, you are asking this committee and

service had been badly mishandled up to that date: because, you
remember, now, that your predecessor had secured the blanketing-)
of these men without competitive examinations, and, when this law
mini
119242-- 2
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TREASURY AND POST OFFICE APPROPRIATION BILL, 1936

8

TREASURY AND POST OFFICE APPROPRIATION BILL, 1936

required them to stand an examination they failed, and they are

Senator HAYDEN. Three-quarters of the 2,182 political appointees
failed to pass the civil-service examination, and there would be then
left, out of the 2,182, say, about 500, who succeeded in obtaining a
regular civil-service status!
Mr. MELLOTT. I think so.
Senator HAYDEN. And that 500 men who were originally political
appointees made up a part of the 2,639 eligibles!
Senator McKELLAR He did not say that, because that would be
impossible for him to find out, unless he goes and makes an examination: and I would be very glad if be would make an examination
and find out who stood competitive examinations
Senator NORRECK. Senator McKellar, the witness cited his authority for making the statement.

not the competent men that you think they are.
Senator HAYDEN. That is the point I wanted to bring out definitely, because in my own State there were only four men affected.

All happened to belong to my political party. They all insisted

they had never received a political appointment and had not been

blanketed into the service, that they had passed a regular civil-service
examination in order to obtain their appointment.
Let me ask Mr. Mellott: Do the records show that a man received

a political appointment without having taken a civil-service examination; then, being in the Department for a time, was given
permission to take an examination, as a result of which he was
retained in the service It could be done that way, or by simply
having a political appointee blanketed in. What are the facts in
that regard
Mr. MELLOTT. May I try to answer the question by reading an

Senator McKELLAR. I know, but what does Attorney General
Cummings know about the thing, except what he has been told He

savs that he has been told.

excerpt from the opinion of the Attorney General, addressed to the

Senator NORBECK. He only answered the question as nearly as he
could answer it.

Secretary under date of October 25, 1934:
The second question raised by your letter is whether the proviso in question includes employees who have already taken and passed a competitive
civil-service examination. A brief summary of the history of the Bureau
Prohibition is necessary to a proper consideration of this question.
Prior to March 3. 1927. there was in the Bureau of Internal Revenue, a unit
known as the Prohibition Unit. in which certain field positions were not required to be filled in accordance with the Civil Service Act and rules. The

Senator HAYDEN. I am just trying to see if the inference I have
drawn
is correct, or if Mr. Mellott has any way of verifying it as
correct or incorrect.

of

Mr. MELLOTT. Of course, there were afterward other civil-service
examinations held. In 1928, it is my understanding, there was another examination held.
Senator HAYDEN. What was the date of the examination?

act of March 3. 1927, established this unit as a separate bureau in the Treasury

Department, known as the Bureau of Prohibition, and directed that the employees of the field service of the said Bureau, who had acquired a proper
civil-service status should have their employments terminated 6 months
from the effective date of the act. which was April 1, 1927. There were 2,182
such field positions. Competitive examinations were duly held by the Civil
Service Commission. There were 15,524 applicants for the first examination,
of whom 12,436 took the written test, However, only 4,504 of these passed the
examination. Character investigations of these persons further reduced to
2,639 the total number of eligibles for the position of agent, Inspector, and
investigator.

am informed that as a result of the examinations held by the Civil Service
Commission, pursuant to the act of March 3, 1927. 75 percent of the employees
affected by that act became ineligible to hold their positions.

Senator HAYDEN. Let me get that clear. There were, prior to
1927, 2,182 men in the prohibition unit, appointed through political
influence and not as a result of a civil-service examination. A civilservice examination was ordered, 15,000 applied, 12,000 took the test,

4,500 passed it: and, finally, as a result of character investigations,

only 2,689 eligibles were obtained.
Mr. MELLOTT. That is right.
Senator HAYDEN. Of that 2,639 eligibles, how many came from the
2,182 who were political appointees?

Mr. MELLOTT. I do not think there was ever any check made of

that.

Senator HAYDEN. I am sure that you read that 75 percent became
ineligible to hold their positions.
Mr. MELLOTT. The Attorney General states that he is informed
that as the result of the examinations held by the Commission, pursuant to the act of March 3, 1927. 75 percent of the employees affected

by that act became ineligible to hold their positions so that would
refer back, I take it.

Mr. MELLOTT. This was on March 3, 1927.
C

Senator HAYDEN. March 3. 1927, is when the first civil-service
examination was held
Mr. MELLOTT. Yes, sir: that is when the Prohibition Service was
put under civil service.
Senator McKELLAR You could easily find out by simply seeing or
getting the names on the present list, that were covered by the Hoover

order, after they had been appointed. That would be the easiest
thing in the world
The CHAIRMAN. What is the use of putting him to that trouble,
as all of them are Democrats, now.
Senator NORRECK. Surely, they are Democrats now.
Senator McKELLAR. They may be Democrats now, but at the time

of this examination, last year, they could not find a single Democrat in the lot and I know of my own personal knowledge that
everyone in Tennessee, except two, that have been appointed since-

and under the Attorney General's interpretation. those two were
included, too-failed, the 2 Democrats and the 26 Republicans; and,
having failed, they ought to go out.
Senator NORBECK. Senator McKellar, when I first came here, in
1920, it was rumored that the Wilson Democrats had put several

hundred men into the Alien Bureau to do political work, so the

Republicans started out to eliminate all those Democrats, and the
report they got was, that the morning after the landslide election,
they could only find two Democrats.
Senator McKELLAR Without doubt, that is so.
Senator HAYDEN. I interrupted the gentleman. Is there something else you wanted to read, Mr. Mellott?

9

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TREASURY AND POST OFFICE APPROPRIATION BILL, 1936

TREASURY AND POST OFFICE APPROPRIATION BILL, 1936

Senator O'MNHONEY. Mr. Chairman, let me ask a few questions.
When did you become the head of this Unit!
JHO
Mr. MELLOTT. On May 10. 1934, when it was created.
Senator O'MAHONEY. Have you any records to show how many
persons were separated from the service between the 10th of June
1933, and December 31, 1933, but whose separation was not the result of the mere transfer of this Unit from the Department of Justice to the Treasury Department
Mr. MELLOTT. I think we can make the record complete. I am
not quite sure that an answer to your question is the best way. The
unit, under the Executive order of March 10, which becaine effective
May 10, is composed of 639 people, investigators who were trans

Mr. MELLOTT. That right
Senator O'MAHONKY That was just a change of name, but actually

the personnel of the old bureau went over into the new and were

taken on the roll Is that right

Mr. MELLOTT
Of course, the Comptroller General and the Attorney
General
ruled
(1)

Senator
O'MAHONET. Let us get the answer to that question. Is
that
not right
Mr. MELLOTT. I started to say that was our thought in the matter,
but the Comptroller General and the Attorney General ruled that
that was a separation from the service, which occurred on August 9.

Senator O'MAHONEY. Yes: I understand that, surely. We are
coming to that, but as a practical matter, when the Prohibition Unit
was abolished, and the Alcoholic Beverage Unit of the Department
of Justice was created, in the contemplation of the Bureau, or of
those in charge of this particular work, there was only a transfer of
personnel. they were dropped from one roll and immediately put on

ferred from the Alcoholic Beverage Unit of the Department of

Justice.

Senator O'MAHONEY. Transferred? When
Mr. MELLOTT. Under the Executive order of May 10, coming into
the Treasury Department on May 10, 1934. That was 639: 698 had
been appointed in the Industrial Alcohol Bureau and that also became part of the Alcohol Tax Unit, making a total of 1,837 investigators in the consolidated Alcohol Tax Unit, after fusing together
the Alcoholic Beverage Unit of the Department of Justice and the

the other is not that right

Mr. MELLOTT. That is correct. They worked all day, August 9, as
members of the Prohibition Unit of the Department of Justice, and
began working on August 10, 1933, the next day, as personnel in and
part
tions. of the Alcoholic Beverage Unit of the Division of Investiga-

Industrial Alcohol Bureau of the Treasury Department. Of that

group, those affected by the amendment in question, there were 1.202
investigators and 43 storekeeper gagers, who were subject to the
competitive examination prescribed by the amendment in question.
Senator O'MAHONEY. Mr. Mellott, that does not answer my question. I observe from reading this proviso that it became necessary
under the law for all persons holding any of these designated positions, who were separated from the service between June 10, 1933, and
December 31, 1933, to take a new civil-service examination. whether

or not they had previously had one. That is your interpretation of

that statute, is it not

Mr. MELLOTT. Yes.

Senator O'MAHONEY. So that it becomes important to know how
many persons were actually separated from the service between those

two dates.

Let me make clear what I have in mind. There were two kinds of
separation, as I understand it.
Mr. MELLOTT. Right.

Senator O'MAHONEY. In the first place, those persons who were

dropped from the rolls, under the old Prohibition Unit, after the
10th of June, for one reason or other, by the persons then in charge,
were separated from the service: Then, there was another group of
persons who were separated from the service technically, when the
unit was transferred from the Department of Justice to the Treasury

Department.

Mr. MELLOTT. Not to the Treasury Department, Senator. It was

when the old Prohibition Unit was abolished. and the Alcoholic
Beverage Unit of the Department of Justice was created, the effective
date being August 10.
Senator O'MAHONEY. What year
Mr. MELLOTT 1933.

Senator O'MAHONEY. You had one bureau, which was abolished,
and a new bureau set up!

11

C

Senator O'MAHONEY. That was my understanding, and because
of that fact, it seems to me it is important for us to know how many
of those who worked all the 9th of August and began working again
on the 10th of August were affected by this ruling and prevented
from obtaining their salaries.
Mr. MELLOTT. That number would be approximately 639.
Senator O'MAHONEY. Those were persons who were on the roll
all day the 9th, and on the roll all day the 10th
Mr. MELLOTT. That is right, only on different rolls.
Senator O'MAHONET. On the pay roll of the Government
Mr. MELLOTT. That is right.
Senator O'MAHONET. Doing the same character of work?
Mr. MELLOTT. On the pay roll and doing the same character of
work.
Senator O'MAHONEY. Then how many individuals are affected by
this order, who were actually separated from the service for several
days or several weeks, between these two dates
Mr. MELLOTT. That number I cannot give you exactly, but it would
be somewhere in the neighborhood of 700.

Senator O'MAHONEY Is your understanding that this reso-

lution was intended to cover those 7001
Mr. MELLOTT. I thought, at the time it was enacted, that that was
the evident purpose of it
Senator O'MAHONEY. But it was interpreted to cover all of them,

because of the technical effect of the words separated from the
service" when taken into consideration with the fact that the Bureau
WRS abolished and a new bureau instituted
Mr. MELLOTT. That is right.
Senator McKELLAR Mr. Mellott, is it not easy enough for the
Department to give us the names of the men who had been separated

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TREASURY AND POST OFFICE APPROPRIATION BILL, 1936

TREASURY AND POST OFFICE APPROPRIATION BILL, 1986

from the service, and who were put back by the Department on the
recommendation of the committee headed by Mr. Berney Would
there be any trouble about your Department furnishing us that!
Mr. MELLOTT. No. We would be very glad to furnish it to you.
Senator McKELLAR Mr. Berney testified that under President
Roosevelt's order, I think, of June 10, 1933-I will not be positive
about the dates the men he put back were the men that had been
separated from the Department by that order, and who had left the
service, nearly all of them, field men like the ones in Tennessee and
like the ones in every other State, nearly all field men that had been
separated from the service by President Roosevelt's order: in which
order of President Roosevelt, by the way, there was an express provision that if any of them were returned to the service, or asked to
retarn to the service, it should be before January 30, 1934. Why
can you not furnish the names of those 700, or thereabouts, that

All right. We are waiting on those gentle.

men down there to answer the question I asked about the Executive
order, which they now say is repealed.
Senator
O'MAHONEY.
Can we not get them, just as they arel Do
you
have them
here
Mr. MELLOTT. Yes: I have.
Senator O'MAHONEY. Read the Executive orders in their order.

Mr. MELLOTT.
General.

General provisions Each agency. all the functions of which are transferred
to or consolidated with another agency. is abolished All personnel employed in
connection with the work of an abolished agency or function disposed of, shall
be separated from the service of the United States, except that the head of any

successor agency, subject to my approval, may within a period of 4 months
after transfer or consolidation, reappoint any of such personnel required for
the work of the successor agency without reexamination or loan of civil-service
status.

Government since the preceding August, and whom you put back

into service under this order! Why can you not give us those

names

Mr. MELLOTT. We can furnish the names of any group that you

That is the section you refer to, is it not, Senator McKellar
Senator McKELLAR Yes. I want to ask you this: Were these 750,
reported by Mr. Berney. put back into the service within that 4
months, or did you or did you not ignore the order of the President
in regard to that! My recollection is that January 30 was the last

may desire. sir.

Senator McKELLAR Do you understand what I am talking about,
when I tell you that the men were put back by Mr. Berney, who
says he examined their files, and that, upon an examination. he put
them back, or recommended that they should go back, and that the

day on which anybody could have been restored under that order, and
these
that
notmen
truelwere not put back until some time in April or May. Is

Secretary of the Treasury put them back Why cannot we have

that list of names of those put back by Mr. Berney, or on his recomMr. HELVEPING. Mr. Chairman, I do not know, but I believe the
Senator is confusing two Executive orders.
Senator McKELLAR. No. I remember the other order. The latter
order is the order by which they were put back, and that is the order
that Mr. McReynolds testified he wrote and sent up to the President
by his superior, the Secretary of the Treasury I am not confusing
those two orders. One was the order of President Roosevelt, separating these men from the service, in 1933, and the second one was
his order restoring them, upon the recommendation of the Secretary
of the Treasury.

I want to be perfectly practicable, and I do not want the civil
service debased in any such way as this, to have Mr. Hoover, under
his administration, let politicians in the various States appoint these
men, and then blanket them into the service, and when they come
to an examination, a real examination, fail, and still they are sought
to be kept in their places, although the men who stood the examination are ready to perform their work.
Senator STEIWER. Senator, when you say a "real examination"
do you mean an examination in which they are required to name the
counties of the State of Tennessee

Senator McKELLAR I do not know what the examination was.
Senator, but I do know they all passed an examination, and a sufficient one.

The CHAIRMAN. Let us get the facts, and not go into an argument
of the question.

I am quoting from an opinion of the Attorney

Senator McKELLAR Have you not the order there, itself
Mr. MELLOTT. I have section 3 of the order of June 10, 1988, which
provides in part as follows:

Mr. Berney testified to, who had been out of the service of the

mendation

13

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Mr. MELLOTT. Briefly, the history in connection with the reappointment of those folks in this. The Secretary, finding it necessary to appoint investigators in the Bureau of Industrial Alcohol,
which he called regulative inspectors" to take care of the enforcement work, which was thrust onto him to some extent following

repeal, asked the Civil Service Commission for a list of eligibles.
Senator McKELLAR. When was that, Mr. Mellott? That was after
January 30, 1934, was it not?
Mr. MELLOTT. Somewhere in the first month of the year, I think,
in January of 1934.

Senator McKELLAR. Do not "think" about it. Will you not get
the record, because the records dispute what you are now saying.
Those men were recommended to go back after the 30th of January
1934, and after the time of expiration, by the President's own order.
Mr. MELLOTT. I think the Senator is correct.
Senator McKELLAR Why, of course!
Mr. MELLOTT. That most of the appointments were made after

January 30.
Senator McKELLAR They were all made.
Mr. MELLOTT. They were made from the only reservoir which the

Civil Service Commission furnished the Secretary, from which to

make the appointments of investigators,
Senator McKELLAR. Let me ask you, do you pay no attention to
an Executive order governing your duty, issued by the President of
the United States, and in which he fixes the time within which men
can be restored, as January 801 No: you came along and disregarded

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TREASURY AND POST OFFICE APPROPRIATION BILL, 1936
TREASURY AND POST OFFICE APPROPRIATION BILL, 1936

that order, and restored them some time in the spring, after the 30th

of January. Is not that true

Secretary MORGENTHAU Well, I do not know.

Mr. MELLOTT. The Civil Service Commission furnished the eligible list for appointment.
Senator McKELLAR. Yes; they furnished the men on this list, and
those were the very men that the President of the United States had
separated from the service and said that they could not go back to

Senator McKELLAR If you will look it up and verify it, and make
&
statement
in answer
to that
question,
I will be very much obliged
to you. Just have
your man
attend
to that.
MORGENTHAU, I would like to submit such a statement
forSecretary
the record.
Senator McKELLAR Thank you.

the service after January 301 It is perfectly plain. All you have

to do is look at your order.

Senstor O'MAHONEY Let me say that I think Mr. Mellott, in

Mr. BELL Senator, the order did not deprive the employee of a

answering my question, substantially answered the questions which
have been since addressed to him. He stated, as I understood him.
that some 700 persons were removed, from time to time, and reinstated after the month of January 1934.
Mr. MELLOTT. That is right.
Senator O'MAHONEY. Those are the persons concerning whom
Senator McKellar is desirons of having information: and, of course,
we all are: and all that is necessary, I think, to clear this up is for
you to produce the various Executive orders, in their chronological
order, and then the number of persons in the Bureau who were separated from the service only because one unit was abolished and the
other unit established the next day. It was never the intention, 1
may say, so far as I know. to have this particular provision apply
to those persons, but it was distinctly the intention to have it apply
to the persons who were dropped by reason of the President's order

Civil Service status. In my opinion the order intended that the
employers dismissed thereunder should have the same status as any
other employees dismissed as a result of a reduction in force
Senator McKELLAR But the order of the President, which it seems
to me all departments ought to obey if they can, was that they could
not be restored after January 30, 1934.
Mr. BELL Not at all.
Senator NORRECK. You are mixed up, Senator.

Senator McKELLAR No: I am not. I have looked at it, and you

have not.

Senator O'MAHONEY. If we can get the dates I think it will be
cleared up. Of these 700 whom you mentioned in answer to one of
my questions, most of them were restored to the service after the
date given by Senator McKellar. in January 1984, is not that a fact
Mr. MELLOTT. That is right.
Senator McKELLAR. All of them were.
Senator O'MAHONEY. All of them

of June 10. and afterward reinstated, after the expiration of the

4-month period mentioned by the President in that order.

Senator McKELLAR. The record so shows.
Senator O'MAHONEY. Let us get the witness answer.
Senator McKELLAR. I want to get the witness to look at the record
and testify.
Senator O'MAHONEY. Is not that what you said in response to my

)

Senator McKELLAR. And reinstated by direction or by recommendation of Mr. Berney and the three or four men under him. They
selected them. They did not pass the civil service examination at all.
They merely took out, from the files, certain men they wanted rein-

stated. I would like to ask this question, and I would like to ask

in the order that I have referred to, had nothing to do with the collection of taxes before you became Secretary of the Treasury. They

January.

were raiding officers, what were known as prohibition officers
They were field people, out in the field. They had nothing to do
with the
protection
Mr. Secretary, and they had already
been
separated
fromof
thetaxes,
service.

Secretary MORGENTHAU. I am just as anxious as Senator McKellar

to have the chronological order of what was done. and I am as
positive as anybody can be that we did not go contrary to any
Executive order, in spirit or any other way I want to give you

the exact facts.

Secretary MORGENTHAU. Senator, if I'can reply, I remember cor-

a

hearing.

(

the Secretary, if he knows: and if he does not, anybody else.
You talk about the collection of taxes. These men, contemplated

question, Mr. Mellott
Mr. MELLOTT. I think there were some appointments made in

Senator McKELLAR. You remember, Mr. Secretary, we had

rectly what I said. I said our main function was the collection of
taxes and the protection of the revenue. These men were trained in.

Senator MORGENTHAU. I know you did.

vestigators, trained in finding illicit stills. That had been their

Senator McKELLAR This was developed, and I know it is true.

training, and what we are using them for today is to continue the

Of course, you had nothing to do with it, personally.
Secretary MORGENTHAU. I take the responsibility

Senator McKELLAR I know you do. Those under you make a

distinction between removing from a civil-service status" and
separating from the service". and although the President said they
could not be restored after January 30, they go to the Civil Service
Commission and get a statement that they still have a civil-service
status, and thereupon those under you appointed these men having

a service status, but directly in conflict with the Presidential
order. Those are the facts.

15

work of detecting where alcohol is manufactured; and
that comes under the protection of the Government's revenues,
Senator McKELLAR I can see how you could put them in on that

basis, but I want to say this to you, Mr. Secretary: You believe in
the civil service, do you not? I do. I am a very sincere believer
in it, and served on that committee for years. I honor it and respect it, and want to see it faithfully administered
The CHAIRMAN. The Secretary says be does, too.

Senator McKELLAR If the Secretary does, why are you willing to
put these men back on the rolls, or keep them there, with the hope
35

c
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TREASURY AND POST OFFICE APPROPRIATION BULL, 1936

TREASURY AND POST OFFICE APPROPRIATION BILL, 1936

Congress will pay them the money for it, when as a matter of fact
they have failed to pass every examination that has been held, and
you have got ample people who have passed the examinations to fill

civil-service laws have been violated, and whether people have been
put on the roll purely for political reasons.
Senator McKELLAR Yes.

these places!

Senator HAYDEN. The other set of facts that Senator O'Mahoney
is developing is that what Senator McKellar undoubtedly had in

Secretary Morgenthau. The answer to that is, Senator, as I understand it, the majority of them had all previously taken an examination and passed it, and this is the first time, as I understand it.
in the history of civil service, that a man who has passed the civil

mind were some 700 men who were separated from the service, back

in August, and were given until January to be put back. Later, it
being determined that although they were separated from the service,

service is required to take another examination.

they had not lost their civil-service status, when the Department
called
for eligibles, this same list was submitted by the Civil Service
Commission.

Senator McKELLAR. Mr. Secretary, you were just being misled
someone in your own Department about that, for here is what

Senator O'MAHONEY. The Executive order of June 10 provided
that everybody was separated from the service, but that for a certain
period, any of these persons could be reinstated without examination.

by took place: These men were appointed on political grounds entirely,
in the Hoover administration, and they were afterward asked some

questions, and put on the civil-service roll. They were blanketed
in by Mr. Hoover. I have got the order, and will show it to you.
I will be glad to show it to you at any time.

The CHAIRMAN. But thereafter there must be an examination
Senator O'MAHONEY. That is the clear implication
The CHAIRMAN. That is the whole question.

Senator HAYDEN. That is the point I was trying to develop a while
Undoubtedly, there were 2,182 political appointees, blanketed
ago. in. Subsequently, in March 1927, a civil-service examination was

held, which these 2,182 persons had an opportunity to take, and
several thousand more did take it. As a result of that civil-service
examination the Treasury Department did obtain a list of men
eligible to engage in this very investigational work, raiding stills,
and all that. The Civil Service Commission submitted a list of
2,639 eligibles, of whom I understood Mr. Mellott to say only about
500 of the original blanketed employees were included, because
75 percent of them failed to qualify. A large majority of the political appointees could not pass that civil-service examination.
Senator NORBECK. But the trouble is, those 500 were Republicans,
and they should be eliminated.
Senator McKELLAR. They are all Republicans, there is no question

about that. There are no Democrats in that list, or in this list,

either, because they were appointed purely for political purposes,

at first.

Senator HAYDEN. It is very important to get the exact facts. If
Mr. Mellott can check the list of 2,182 political appointees against
the list of 2,639 eligibles who were certified, he can tell how many
original political appointees were able to qualify at the civil-service
examination held for the special purpose of obtaining men qualified
to serve in the position of investigator.
Secretary MORGENTHAU. But, Senator, I think I am correct in saying that there is no one on our roll today who has not been qualified
and certified by the Civil Service Commission. We could not have

anybody else. It may be my fault that I have not pointed it out,

but the acid test, as far as I am concerned and as far as the country
is concerned, is, Are we doing this job well, or are we doing it badly

Are we protecting the revenue? Are we collecting taxes Are we
suppressing the illicit stills, and are we making headway? That is
the question. Is this group of men efficient? Are they doing their
work well
The CHAIRMAN. Of course, that is the primary question, but another question is involved, Mr. Secretary, and that is whether the
311g

17

Senator
examined.

McKELLAR And thereafter be employed after being

Senator HAYDEN. Did the order indicate that it must be by a new
examination, or that, by reason of their having theretofore passed
an examination, they were qualified
Senator O'MAHONEY. It was a clear indication that there should

be a new examination, but it was interpreted otherwise. It was
(

interpreted to mean that any person who had a civil-service status,
and was 80 certified by the Civil Service Commission, could be
reappointed. That is my understanding of it.
CHAIRMAN.
If that was the interpretation, what was the need
of The
the Executive
order!
Senator O'MAHONEY. Surely.
Senator HAYDEN. That is one group. You have another group,
however, that were never separated from the service, except to be
dropped, from one moment to be transferred to the other.
Senator O'MAHONEY. Just technically.
Senator HAYDEN. And yet they are affected by this order.
Senator O'MAHONEY. They are affected by this order.
Senator HAYDEN. How many are there in that group?
Senator O'MAKONEY. Some 600, he testified.
Mr. MELLOTT. Some 639 investigators.

Senator HAYDEN. I am sure that when the Senate adopted the
McKellar amendment nobody had that group in mind.

Senator O'MAHONEY. Oh, no.
Senator MOKELLAR That was brought about by an Attorney Gen-

eral. The Attorney General put them in there by his opinion, and
his opinion is absolutely incorrect. It was not intended by Congress to put them in there, and the words do not put them in there.

I do not know why that interpretation was given it, but it was

given it.

Senator O'MAHONEY. It was given it, Senator, because the language of the resolution says, Who are separated from the service

between these dates."

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TREASURY AND POST OFFICE APPROPRIATION BILL, 3936

TREASURY AND POST OFFICE APPROPRIATION BILL, 1936

Senator McKELLAR Yes: some excuse: but it did not mean that.
Senator O'MAHONEY. The Comptroller interpreted that to mean

Senator NORRECK. Mr. Chairman, I suggest, unless the witness be

permitted to answer the question, that We give it up and listen to
Senator McKellar the rest of the day.
Senator McKELLAR The Senator's statement about that is absolutely without any foundation in fact.

this technical separation.
Senator MOKELLAR. Mr. Secretary, I was interested in what you

said about the good of the service. I want to say this about that:
I sent to Mr. Mellott, and he sent to me a list of the men who had
been blanketed into the service, and whom you still have on your

Senstor NORBECK. The record speaks for itself.

Senator HAYDEN. Will the witness please answer! How many
names were sent over by the Civil Service Commission, from which

rolls, but whom you are not paying; and also those that had passed

the Treasury Department could select six or seven hundred, or whatever number was wanted after January
Mr. MELLOTT. They are in the Department, and I am going to
answer the best that I possibly can, according to my understanding.
The Civil Service Commission, it is my understanding, advised the
Treasury that the former prohibition agents were eligible for appointment in the service. The committee of which the Senator speaks
reviewed the records, or the personnel files, of all of the folks who had
served. and who had civil-service eligibility as prohibition agents.
Senator HAYDEN. And how many were there

the examination. It just happens that I know. personally, nearly
every man who is on the rolls in my State. One of them is a retired capitalist, down there, whom Bill Taylor put on the rolls,
He does not do any work. He has never done any work, and the
is not doing any work now. Mr. Secretary. Talk about fakers : I
will give you his name. I am not going to put it on the record for
the committee, but I will give you his name. He is not doing any
work now. He does not need the place. He is a retired capitalist
and yet you are keeping him down there without pay. That does
not make much difference because he does not need the pay. He
may stay with you all the time.
Secretary MORGENTHAU. I did not know there were any retired

Mr. MELLOTT. I think there were some 2,500.
Senator HAYDEN. That is, the Civil Service Commission sent over

capitalists.

Senator McKELLAR. But I will say to you that Congressman J.
Will Taylor-and, incidentally, I will quote him right here as saying this because he told me with no stated to me that he was
utterly astonished that you kept those Republicans politicians in,
down there. He did not say that they were not doing any good, but
I tell you that they are not doing a bit of good. I tell you we are
not having efficient service in my State, and I tell you that you have
got on the waiting lists in the Civil Service Commission, under this
last examination, some of the very best men, whom you could appoint instead of holding these inefficient, incompetent, and politically-appointed men in office.
Senator HAYDEN. Let me ask this: Would it be possible, if some-

one were politically minded and wanted to do it, that, after January,
when the period of grace had expired during which these men might
be restored under the law. and the Civil Service Commission submitted lists of eligibles, if there were someone who looked over those
lists and knew that certain men were his friends, could he select
them and leave others off How are selections made from the civilservice list, if a large group is needed The Department wanted
how many-six or seven hundred

C

2,500 names of men certified as having previously passed the civilservice examination and therefore eligible for appointment The
Civil Service Commission sent over the whole list of about 2,500, and
then a committee of the Treasury selected how many from that list
for appointment
Mr. MELLOTT. I do not understand that it was worked exactly that
way. I understand that the list was made available in general, in
toto; that from that the committee reviewed the personnel files of the
varions folks who were in that whole group.
Senator O'MAHONEY. If the list was made available in toto, then
all 2,500 names were submitted to the Treasury committee!
Mr. MELLOTT. I do not think they were certified in a regular order.
Senator O'MAHONEY. Not certified
Mr. MELLOTT. That is what I am trying to say. Then, after they
were picked out, they asked for a certification as to the particular man
whose file indicated that he was
Senator HAYDEN. How many men did the Treasury committee

select out of the 2,5001
Mr. MELLOTT. I think 698 altogether.

Senator HAYDEN. If, from the original list of 2,182 political ap-

to find out.

pointees, there were carried into the civil service, by reason of a subsequent examination, 500 men who were able to pass the test, and they
were included among 2,500 eligibles, and if somebody who was doing
the selecting then and picked out, in the majority of cases, these particular 500 political appointees, there would be just cause for complaint!
Mr. MELLOTT. We could check the records. Oh, yes.
Senator HAYDEN. That is what I want you to do. The only way to
do it is to find out the names of the 500 political appointees who did
succeed in passing a civil-service examination. and then ascertain
how many of the 500 appear on the list of 600 that the Department

Senator McKELLAR It also shows that Mr. Berney went through
the list and selected those that he wanted to be reappointed, and
that they were all Republicans.

now What is the use in asking for that

Mr. MELLOTT. Yes,

Senator HAYDEN. And how many names did the Civil Service
Commission send over as eligibles from which the Department could
select?

Senator McKELLAR They sent the whole list.
Senator HAYDEN. There were how many names on it?
Senator McKELLAR The evidence in the Civil Service Committee
hearings shows that they sent over the whole list.

Senator HAYDEN. How many were on it That is what I want

19

committee selected.

The CHAIRMAN. Well, do you not know that they are all Democrats

20

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TREASURY AND POST OFFICE APPROPRIATION BILL, 1936

TREASURY AND POST OFFICE APPROPRIATION BILL 1936

Senator McKELLAR. We areinot asking for their politics, now, because we know they are all Democrats.
Senator HAYDEN. If the record shows it to be a fact, then clearly
appointees were selected; then there could have been no favoritism.
Senator O'MAHONEY. And, if the entire list was made available to
this committee. and then the committee made selections from that
list, not upon the basis of the records of the Civil Service Commis-

them were Republicans, and the Treasury, my good friend Helver
ing, with whom I used to serve in the House, and who I esteem as
highly as I do anybody, had not given me a single one. He would
not remove any of them. He would not remove anybody. He left
me down there with the Republicans, who fight us. They take an
active hand in politics. Do not talk about their not taking an active
hand in politics. They are the most active people in my State, for
their own party. I do not blame them, but they ought not to stay
in there, under the wonderful civil service examination, which they

clearly, as Senator Hayden says, there must have been some selection, not by the Civil Service Commission but by individuals on the

Senator HAYDEN. Mr. Chairman, this matter came to my attention just after I met Senator McKellar in Los Angeles, when he was

there was favoritism exercised within the Department. If the record should show that only an average number of original political

21

have never stood.

sion, but upon the basis of the personnel files in the unit, then,

committee.

leaving for the Philippine Islands, or I would have taken up

Senator McKELLAR All of that is testified to in this hearing. We
names that were originally political appointees is compared with
the list of those finally selected by the Treasury committee, and if
a great majority of those on the new list were originally political

with him. E came back home, and I was contacted by one of the
agents who had been set aside by the McKellar amendment so that
he could not draw any pay. I found that there were four in the
State. Each one of them insisted that he had passed a regular civilservice examination and obtained his rating, and on inquiry as to
their politics, they were all four Democrats.

I want.

Senator HAYDEN. That is the point I am trying to make, that, so
far as my State was concerned, all of them insisted that they had
obtained their appointments in a regular civil-service way. They
were all residents of Arizona when they passed the civil-service

have got the facts about it.
Senator HAYDEN. The absolute proof will be when the list of 500

Senator NORBECK. How did you manage it?

appointees, there was favoritism.
Senator McKELLAR What I want, Mr. Mellott, for this committee
are the names and addresses of the 698 that were certified by Mr.
Berney, and afterward appointed by the Department. That is what

The CHAIRMAN. There being no question to the witness on the
stand, the chairman is going to make an observation. I do not care

a continental about polities or about patronage. I turn all those
matters over to other members of the Virginia delegation. Everybody knows that. I do not bother with that. But, in substantiation
of the suggestion that this was largely a partisan political movement, I obtained from the Commissioner of Internal Revenue, Mr.
Helvering, a list of the field agents in Virginia-rather, Senator

Byrd did. and gave me a copy of of the 30 field agents in

Virginia, headed by one of the most obnoxious persons whose record
I ever had brought to my attention, efficient in the discharge of his
duties, and very efficient in the manifestation of his politics; of the
30 field agents in Virginia, 28 of them were carpetbaggers, all the
way from Maine to some other remote point. There were only 7
Virginians, and of the 30 there were only 3 Democrats.
Senator HAYDEN. You do not think that was an accident
The CHAIRMAN. No: I do not think it was an accident. If it was,
it was a very bad accident.
Senator STEIWER. As of what date are you speaking

The CHAIRMAN. Not so very remotely- Mr. Helvering has

been Commissioner of the Internal Revenue. Mr. Helvering knows
it took the very strongest protests of both Senator Byrd and me to
remove the chief of the field agents down there, because he had made

himself so obnoxious and that is the reason, whenever anybody
wants to be appointed from Virginia, they tell us that Virginia's
quota is overfilled; but it is overfilled with appointees from other

States-carpetbaggers.

Senator McKELLAR Senator, you are lucky. I had 27. I will not
be positive, it was either 26 or 27 that were in the list, and all of

(

examination. and each one of them was positive in his assertion that
he never had received any kind of a political appointment, that he
never had been blanketed into the service. But the proof of the
pudding is going to be when a check is made of the list of the six hun.
dred-odd names who were selected by the Treasury committee to see
how many of the original 500 political appointees are included. If it

is found that a large majority of that old group are in the new

group, then somebody with political leanings fixed the list and did
not select them out of the whole 2,500, solely because of their qualifi-

cations.

Senator O'MAHONEY. It is the group of 700, Senator.
Senator McKELLAR. Six hundred and ninety eight.

Senator NORBECK. That would throw a suspicion It might not
be conclusive. If there were 500 experienced men on the list, and
another 1,500 who had not had experience, it might have resulted.

even if they did not know their politics at all. in a larger percent
being selected, of the experienced men, than of the inexperienced.

Senator HAYDEN. If it just happened to be about half and half. I
would not be suspicious.
The CHAIRMAN. I think the whole question involved is not so much
one of politics, but it is apparent the civil-service law and the President's order have been evaded by subterfuge.
Senator HAYDEN. I think you are right, Mr. Chairman.

Senator McKELLAR. Exactly right; and, by the way, Mr. Chairman, in this connection I want to ask permission to insert in the
record the hearings, which are printed and not very long. I do not
want to have them reprinted, but I want them as a part of this record, so we can take it to the Senate. I refer to the hearings in the
ivil-service investigations that were made last year. And for the

22

TREASURY AND POST OFFICE APPROPRIATION BILL, 1936

C

TREASURY AND POST OFFICE APPROPRIATION BILL, 1936

convenience of the committee I am going to submit a copy of a let.
ter that I wrote to the Secretary, to Mr. Berney, who was the man
that made the selections of all these 698, and I want that letter, and
want to call it to the special attention of the Secretary. Have you
seen that letter yet? I want to call the special attention of the man
who really did the work of selecting these 698 inefficient Republican
employees, now claiming civil-service status, to that letter.
(The letter presented for the record by Senator McKellar is as
follows:)
Hon. HENRY MORGENTHAU, Ja..

Party were successful, In my judgment, the Republican money powers over the
country would so handle things that the New York Exchange would close. I bet
one man to the service 10 to 5 that that would happen. and I collected the bet.
close?Senator McKELLAR That If the Democrats won, the stock exchange would
Mr. BERNEY Yes, sir.

Senator MOKELLAR
is absolutely
surprising. I thought you did not take any Interest In politics That

Mr. BERNEY. I didn't say I don't take any Interest in politics. I said that I

was
noteither
qualified
to
vote
way.'and are not qualified to vote either way. and 1 did not attempt

FIGHBUARY 26, 1935.

Remember
polities.

Secretary of the Treasury. Washington, D. C.
DEAR MR. SECURITARY 1 with again to call your attention to the case of E. FL

any kind, he has some political views or opinions It is entirely out of harmeny
with your previous testimony that you took no Interest in politics, and that

Senator MOKELLAR Where are you from?
Mr. BERNEY From central Pennsylvania.
- Senator McKELLAR Are you a Democrat or Republican?
Mr BERNEY I do not know.

politics
anythingnever
of thehad
kind.anything to do with any decision you made about personnel or
Mr. BERNEY. I still say that it never affected any official action of mine, but

I still think I have the right to visualize what may take place in different

Senator McKELLAR You do not know? An expert in the Bureau of Prohibition and not know whether you are a Democrat or a Republican
Mr. BERNEY If I may place my own test, I assume the test of a man's
political faith is determined by his registration in n primary. I have never

political
campaigns, and I am sufficiently Interested in American citizenship to
do
so (p. 138)
Senator McKELLAR
Were you.a member of a political club known as the
Hoover-Curtis
Club"

registered to vote in a primary in my life. I voted once in my life, in the

State of Connecticut, at a general election, and I have never lined up with a
political party: so I do not know.
Senator McKELLAR How did you vote then?
Mr. BERNEY I voted on a machine.

Senator McKELLAR I know but how did you vote? Did you vote for

the

Mr. BERNEY. I certainly did."

This man was educated at Yale University. I believe he graduated there, and
had been working for the Government since 1918, when he went into the Bureau

of War Risk Insurance He entered that Bureau by standing a competitive
examination for claims examiner and reviewer (p. 98). He admitted that he
was a member of the committee that prepared the list of former employees that

could be restored (p. 97).

Mr. Berney did not know of President Roosevelt's order which limited the
reinstatement of these employees to January 30, 1934 (p. 98). He did not

know how many of the 825 employees selected by him and his committee were
Democrats
many
Republicans (p. 103). He said that his method
of handling and
the how
matter
waswere
as follows:

My passing upon them was specifically and definitely limited to pulling
records and passing out information with certain restrictions (p. 108).
He claimed that be was appointed during the Wilson administration and
served under the others, but boasted that he had never voted in his life. except
once, and that time for both the Democratic and the Republican candidate, and
that he had no Interest In politics. I quote from him
Senator McKELLAR You said that you are not In politics?
Mr. BERNEY. Yes, sir.
Senator McKELLAR You take no interest in it?
Mr. BERNEY. No, air (p. 138).

These
mistaken.

statements were unqualified but he soon bad to admit that he was

that he had just testified in words that he took no Interest in

At the time I was questioning Mr. Berney concerning his politics I had a paper
in my hand that a gentleman had passed up to me. and I was appearing to look
at the paper before asking Mr. Berney the question, and the following occurred
Senstor McKELLAR If a man takes enough interest to bet on an election of

Berney, now holding a position in your alcohol unit. On May 11, 1934, Mr.
Berney was called before the Senate Committee on Civil Service to testify
regarding his selection of the Prohibition or Alcohol Unit for reappointing in
your
Department.
I quote from Mr. Berney's testimony, as shown on page
96
of the
record:

Democratic candidate or for the Republican candidate?
- Mr. BERNEY I voted for both.
Senator
You voted for both the Democratic and the Republican
candidate
at McKELLAR
the same time

23

1)

(

Mr. BERNEY. I would say 1 was not, I can give you the story behind that.
Senator McKELLAIL I would be glad to have it.
Mr. BERNEY. Very well, sir. In. I believe, 1924, I was in the Veterans'
Bureau, and I WAS Invited by a subordinate of mine to attend a notification
exercise
forwere
President
where they
held, Coolidge. I attended them. We got down to the place
Senator McKELLAR Where was that?
Mr. BERNEY. I believe it was Constitutional Hall. We got down there and
were about to take our seats, The man I was with was member of the Sons
of the American Revolution, and other agencies of that kind In the District.
Someone came to him and told him the man in charge of the door was not
going to be there, and wanted him to take charge. He asked, What does It
require? They said. Well, we have a couple of marines to keep things in
order. He said, Mr. Berney is experienced more than I am in such things.
Why not ask him to go to the door? I want to the door and organized these
men at the Convention Hall, so that we could have order,
Senator McKELLAR Of course, It was not the love of politics, but your love
and loyalty to law and order that brought you to that Coolidge meeting In 1924.
Mr. BRANKY. It was my interest in the leader of this Nation at the time.
I have had an Interest in the person. and I will say the personnel. of the White
House ever since I have been old enough to read and write
- Senator McKHILLER But you never had enough interest to go to the trouble
to vote for anybody for that office?
Mr. BERNEY If I could have afforded to go back to Pennsylvania I would
have.
Senator McKELLAR You kere getting $6,000 a year. Would not that permit
you to go to Pennsylvania If you wanted to vote?
Mr. BERNEY I have no residence there (p. 139).
Remember I still had the little memorandum in my hand.
Senator McKELLAR You can vote anywhere you please. You can vote
Maryland or Virginia. You CRD declare your residence there and vote. You
never looked into that, but while you did not have enough interest to vote. you

had enough interest in politics- or In law and order. not in politics to be

Senator McKELLAIL Is It not a fact that during the campaign of 1932 you
made
bets on the Presidential election, and bet that Hoover would defeat
Roosevelt?

present at a Coolidge meeting and act as doorkeeper.
Mr. BERNEY. Senator, I would like to clear your mind on that
Senator MCKELLAR It needs clearing very much.

Mr. BERNEY That is an unqualified misstatement of fact and falsehood
1 made no bets In the campaign except one, which was that If the Democratic

while I under oath. that I am a member of one of the two great parties.
Nothing would please me better. I wish that I could tell you that. I want to

Mr. BERNEY. Nothing would please me better than to be able to tell you,

clear up my position as to that situation.
119242-35-

In

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24

TREASURY AND POST OFFICE APPROPRIATION BILL, 1936
TREASURY AND POST OFFICE APPROPRIATION BILL, 1936

Senator McKELLAR All right.

Mr. BERNEY. Some time later I was amazed one day to open a letter In
which I found a check for $5 for my services signed by somebody who is in
Chicago, very likely a member of one of the committees
Senator MCKHILAR You mean the Republican committee, do you not?

memorandum, he admitted that he had taken part In a Coolidge ratification In
1924, that be contributed to President Coolidge's campaign, that be contributed
to Mr. Hoover's campaign In 1928, and that he had contributed to Mr. Hoover's
campaign in 1932: and while be beat around the bush, he substantially admitted
that he had bet on Hoover as against Roosevelt in 1932
Now, I am not asking that Mr. Berney be removed because of his support of
Mr. Hoover in 1928 and 1932 or because he is a Republican, but I am asking for
his removal because he did not tell the truth about his polities, but on the
contrary trying to pervert the truth and conceal the truth as his evidence shows,
read
It all.separate cover, I am sending you a copy of the testimony for you to
Under

" Mr. BERNEY. Yes, sir.

Senator McKELLAR You did not take that check
Mr. BERNEY I took the check and endorsed It back to the man who wrote
it, and returned it.
Senator McKELLAR You regarded practical politics as so debased and low
that you had to send it back?
Mr. BERNEY, I did not regard it as debased or low or loathsome in the least.
I regard it as a very fine proposition. It means as much to me as the citizenship of Rome meant to a Roman. If I am permitted to carry this through, I
would like to tell you the entire story.
Senator McKELLAR Go ahead. I thought you were through.
Mr. BERNEY. Not quite. In the next campaign I received a letter. the same
as I received letters from the American Legion, of which I am not a member.
and other agencies for contributions I received a letter saying substantially
that in Washington there was but one place established where people could
vote, and to keep that place up they were asking for a donation of $5 or $10.
as the case may have been, I don't remember which I sent a contribution for

I am informed that notwithstanding my protest to you last year, Mr. Berney
is still on
the Government pay roll. think he should be removed therefrom
Very sincerely yours,
(Signed) KENNETH McKELLAR

The CHAIRMAN. We appear to have said all there is to be said on
that point.
Secretary MORGENTHAU. Do I understand, sir, that I am to submit

a statement,
chronological order, of what has taken place with
regard
to theseinmen
Senator McKELLAR. Yes.
The CHAIRMAN. I think so.
Secretary MORGENTHAU. I would like to.
Senator McKELLAR. Especially the Executive orders.
Secretary MORGENTHAU. Going right back to the beginning, whenever the thing started.
The CHAIRMAN. I think that would be all right.

that purpose.

Senator McKELLAR To the Republican organization?
Mr. BERNEY To a Presidential organization.
Senator McKELLAR It was Republican, was it not?

Mr. BERNEY I don't know. It had been questioned very seriously whether
Mr. Hoover was a Republican or not. He didn't know whether he was or not.
Senator McKELLAR It was a Hoover organization?
Mr. BERNEY. Yes (p. 140).
And again he testified that he had done the same thing the following year (p.
140).
Senator McKELLAR As I understand it, you were doorkeeper at a Republican meeting in this city in 1924
Mr. BERNEY. It was not a Republican meeting.
- Senator McKELLAR I would suppose that It was, If it was for Mr. Coolidge.
Mr. BRANEY. It was a notification exercise.

Senator McKELLAR Mr. Coolidge was a good Republican. And you say
that you contributed to the campaign of Mr. Hoover in 1928, and contributed
again to the campaign of Mr. Hoover in 1932
Mr. BERNEY But my contribution was for the purpose of establishing these
booths for these men and women to vote.
" Senator McKELLAR In other words, you helped Mr. Hoover's cause in 1928.
the first time he ran. when be was elected: and In the same way you helped Mr.
Hoover's cause in 1982, when he happened to be defeated

Mr. BERNEY
clusions."

I have given the facts, and you can draw your own con-

Now, Mr. Secretary, that was the testimony of the man you now have in your

employ under civil service regulations There is no possible objection to Mr.
Berney's being a Republican, and as I look at It there is no possible objection
to Mr. Berney's having contributed to the Republican campaign from 1924 on,
up until 1932 He had a perfect right to do it. but the point I make to you is
that I do not believe your Department should keep in the public service a man
who will falsify about the facts connected with his political activities. Remem-

ber, in the first Instance, Mr. Berney testified that he took no interest in

politics, he had never voted. except once when he voted both the Democratic and

the Republican ticket, the Inference being all through the first testimony that he
was far removed from any political thought or action.
All of the men he selected from Tennesseep for reappointment on this list were
Republicans, and, as far as I know and as far as I have been able to find out
the men he selected from the list In other States were Republicans. His argu-

ments seemed to be that It was a mere coincidence that all of these reappointees

were Republicans. All his associates on the committee were Republicans and

all

those reappointed were Republicans.

And then some young man, whom I do not know, handed me a memorandum,

I held It in my hand and examined Mr. Berney about his political activities.
With this memorandum in my hand, the witness not knowing what was on the

25

Is there anything further, Mr. Secretary
Secretary MORGENTHAU. Not unless you want to ask us some

C

questions.

(The statement referred to is as follows:)
TREASURY DEPARTMENT OFFICE OF THE SECRETARY.

Washington, March 4. 1935.

Hon. CARTER GLASS,

Chairman Committee on Appropriations.

United States Senate.

MY DEAR MR. CHAIRMAN : In accordance with the understanding reached at

Saturday's hearing I am enclosing, herewith, a report given me by Deputy
Commissioner Mellott, of the Alcohol Tax Unit of the Bureau of Internal Revenue, with relation to the civil-service status of the personnel affected by the
proviso
found inrevenue.
the Emergency Appropriation Act of 1935, in the Item Collecting
the Internal

I think that you will find from this report that there is no foundation in
fact for the suggestion that these men had been blanketed into the former
Bureau of Prohibition wihout civil-service examination. They had all qualified

by open competitive examination in complete accord with the civil-service rules.
I believe that you will find also that the appointment of approximately 700 of
these men in the Bureau of Industrial Alcohol, by reinstatement, was likewise
in full compliance with the civil-service rules. Your attention is especially
invited in this connection to the quoted extract from the Attorney General's
opinion addressed to the President on May 26, 1934. advising him that the
classified status of employees separated, from the service under the provisions
of the Executive order of June 10, 1933, was in no wise affected by such
separation.

I will very much appreciate your favorable consideration of the pending
estimate for funds from which this personnel may be compensated. Should
the committee desire further information upon any phase of the matter, I shall
be
only too glad to furnish it.
Very truly yours,
(Signed) HENRY MOBOENTHAU, Jr.
Secretary.

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TREASURY AND POST OFFICE APPROPRIATION BILL, 1936

TREASURY AND POST OFFICE APPROPRIATION BILL, 1936

MARCH 2 1935.

By April 30, 1960, the whole force of the Bureau of Prohibition consisting
of about 4,750 employees, were in their positions in full accord with the civilservice rules, A certain number of positions had been filled by the transfer
of classified employees from other Government departments or by reinstatement
of classified employees, with the approval of the Civil Service Commission. but
with these exceptions the entire personnel had qualified under the open com
petitive
examinations
by8.the
Civil Service Commission pursuant to
the requirements
of theconducted
act of March
1927.
These examinations were of the type regularly given by the Civil Service
Commission for appointments in the classified civil service. For approximately
500 positions above the grade of investigator. that is, administrators, assistant

MEMORANDUM FOR THE SECRETARY or THE TREASURY

In accordance with year Instructions, I submit below a résumé of the history
of the Alcohol Tax Unit and its predecessor agencies from the standpoint of the
application of the civil-service laws:

From the adoption of the eighteenth amendment until April 1. 1927. the
enforcement of the prohibition laws was carried on by the Bureau of Internal
Revenue in a special division known as the Prohibition Unit." By the act
March 3. 1927, which became effective April 1. 1927. the Prohibition Unit of the
Bureau of Internal Revenue was abolished, and until July 1, 1930 the duty of
prohibition enforcement was performed by a separate Bureau in the Treasury
Department known as the " Bureau of Prohibition. By the act of May 27, 1930
which became effective July 1. 1930, the Bureau of Prohibition was transferred
to the Department of Justice. Those of its functions, however, which had to do
with the supervision of the production and distribution of alcohol for industrial
and scientific user transferred to a new Bureau in the Treasury Department,
which was given the name Bureau of Industrial Alcohol.
The Bureau of Prohibition in the Department of Justice was shollshed on
August 9. 1933. pursuant to the provisions of the President's order of June 10.
effecting a general reorganization of the executive departments. Its functions,
however, were continued without substantial change in a separate division called
the "Alcoholic Beverage Unit.'
The Executive order of March 10, 1934, abolished the Bureau of Industrial
Alcohol in the Treasury Department and the Alcoholic Beverage Unit in the
Department of Justice and transferred their functions, records, and personnel to
the Bureau of Internal Revenue This order became effective May 10. 1984, and
to carry out its provisions a special unit was created in the Bureau of Internal
Revenue under the name 'Alcohol Tax Unit.' With minor exceptions, this unit.
under the direction of the Commissioner of Internal Revenue, is now charged
with the enforcement of all Federal liquor laws.

of

CIVIL-SERVICE REQUIREMENTS

Revenue in 1920, until 1927. the appointments in the Prohibition Service, with

the exception of clerical personnel, were, by special provision of law, made
without reference to the civil-service rules. By the act of March 3. 1927, which
became effective April 1. 1927, Congress provided that all appointments should
be subject to the provisions of the civil-service laws, and provided further that
the term of office of any person in the Prohibition Service who was not ap
pointed subject to the civil-service laws should expire October 1, 1927. The
number of employees in the Bureau of Prohibition when this law became effective was approximately 4,300, of whom approximately 2,600 were officers, agents,

administrators inspectors, and investigators who had been appointed without
regard to the civil-service laws,
Following the act of March 3. 1927, the Civil Service Commission announced
open competitive examinations for all positions in the Bureau of Prohibition,
excepting elerten) positions already held by persons with a classified civil-service
status. The certification of eligibles from these open competitive examinations
was not completed by the Civil Service Commission until September 1928. and
in the meantime the Commission found It necessary, pending the establishment
of eligible lists, to authorize an indefinite extension of the employment of per
sons then in the Bureau without civil-service status, this to be terminated
any Individual case upon an adverse finding by the Commission in respect to the
Incumbent's character From the lists of eligibles certified by the Commission

in

in September 1928. the Department proceeded to make appointments as required

by law. replacing those of the existing force who had not qualified in the exam-

ination. and within a few months had exhausted the lists of eligibles in practically all field districts, In most districts, however, It developed that there
were Insufficient eligibles to fill all positions and it became necessary for the
Civil Service Commission to announce further examinations to meet this deficiency. from which eligibles were certified and appointments made late In the

year 1929

or this number, approximately 400 were Inspectors assigned to the supervision of
permittees licensed under the provisions of the National Prohibition Act.

administrators, deputy administrators, senior investigat attorneys, and

chemists, the examinations were nonassembled consisting of a showing by each

applicant of his education, training. and experience. For all other position
the examinations were assembled and consisted of a mental test in three sections

calculated to determine the applicant's general intelligence as well as his special

fitness for the duties of a prohibition officer. All candidates in the case of the
nonassembled as well as the assembled, examinations were subjected to a search

Ing character investigation and to an oral examination to determine the appli-

cant's personal characteristics and address, quickness of understanding adapt

ability. and judgment. The examinations were in all particulars as strict and

comprehensive as any which had been given by the Commission up to that time

(

From the establishment of the Prohibition Unit in the Bureau of Internal

27

for analogous positions in any branch of the Government service. Some
evidence of the difficulty of the examinations will be found in the fact that the
first of the two tests was taken by 12,436 persons of whom only 4,504 received
eligible ratings on the mental requirements, and from the further fact that of
this latter number, 1,865 were later declared ineligible by the Commission as a
result of the personality, character, and fitness Investigations.
It is to be understood, of course, that virtually all the 2,600 noncivil-service
employees in the Bureau of Prohibition at the time competed in these examinations. In this connection it is to be noted that only 30 percent, or about 800,
of these old employees survived the first examination and received ratings making them eligible to hold their positions. Of those falling in the first examination, however, elmost 500 successfully completed the second examination. In
other words. about half the old personnel of the prohibition service were ultimately able
toact
retain
their3.positions
under the civil-service requirements
Imposed
by the
of March
1927

In view of the foregoing facts It will be correct to say that at the time

the Bureau of Prohibition Was transferred from the Treasury Department to the
Department of Justice on July 1. 1930, Its personnel was entirely a civil-service
personnel,
In full compliance
with all the laws and regulations
pertaining
torecruited
the Civil Service
System.
THE EXECUTIVE ORDER OF JUNE 10, 1933

From July 1. 1930, when the Bureau of Prohibition became a part of the
Department of Justice, until July 1, 1933. appointments to positions in the
prohibition service continued to be made exclusively from the lists of eligibles
established by the Civil Service Commission, with the exception, of course, of
instances of transfers or reinstatements of persons with a classified civil-service

status. Until July 1932. the tendency was to increase the Bureau's personnel
to keep pace with the continued efforts of the Department to give effective
enforcement to the prohibition laws. With the enactment of the first economy
law some slight reduction in the force of field agents was made on July 1932
following which the Bureau's total force stood at a figure of about 3,300. By
June 30. 1933, this personnel had been reduced by normal separations to 3,100.

At that time, partly to meet the reduced appropriations available for the fiscal
year 1934. and partly In anticipation of the repeal of the prohibition amendment. It was found advisable to make n drastic reduction In the number of
employees Almost 1,400 field agents and clerks were furloughed at the close
of business on June 30. 1933. or shortly thereafter. of which number about
160 were subsequently reinstated Approximately 100 new appointments were
made, and the Bureau's personnel in active-duty status on August 9 consisted
of slightly less than 2,000 employees of all classes
As has been seen, the Bureau of Prohibition was abolished by Executive
Order No. 6166, dated June 10. 1933 This Executive order, which became
effective on August 9, 1933, abolished or consolidated a large number of agen-

28

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TREASURY AND POST OFFICE APPROPRIATION BILL, 1936

TREASURY AND POST OFFICE APPROPRIATION BILL, 1936

eles in many departments of the Government, and with regard to all such sool- to
ished agencies It contained the following provision respecting the disposition
be made of the personnel

Unit of the Department of Justice were transferred to the Bureau of In
ternal Revenue and consolidated in the Alcohol Tax Unit. Under this order
the 698 agents who had been appointed by the Commissioner of Industrial

'All personuel employed in connection with the work of an abolished agency

Alcohol, as above indicated, were merged with the 639 investigators transferred
frominvestigative
the Alcoholicorganization
Beverage Unit of the Department of Justice into a single
field

or function disposed of shall be separated from the service of the United States,

that the head of any successor agency, subject to my approval, may.
except within period of 4 months after transfer or consolidation, reappoint any of
such personnel a required for the work of the successor agency without reex
amination or loss of civil-service status."
Pursuant to this provision the entire force of the Bureau of Prohibition, constating of approximately 2,000 employees of all classes in active-duty status and
1,240 who had previously been placed on furlough, were sepa-

The Provisions of the Emergency Appropriation Act

The Emergency Appropriation Act, approved June 19. 1934, contained RD
appropriation
of $10,000,000
for the Bureau of Internal Revenue, to which was
attached
the following
proviso:
Provided, That after December 1. 1934, no part of the appropriation made
herein or heretofore made for the fiscal year 1985 shall be used to pay the
salary of any person formerly employed as Investigator, special agent, senfor
warehouseman, deputy prohibition administrator, agent, assistant attorney,
assistant prohibition administrator, senior Investigator, deputy production ad
ministrator, storekeeper or gauger, or any other position in the Prohibition
Bureau or Alcoholle Beverage Unit. Department of Justice. who was separated
from the service of such bureau or unit between June 10. 1933. and December
31. 1933 while in any such position in the Treasury Department, unless and
until such person shall be appointed thereto as a result of an open, competitive examination to be hereafter held by the Civil Service Commission."
Although the purpose of this legislation is not evident from the terms of
the statute. It is to be assumed from contemporary discussions that Its framers
were of the opinion. first, that the employees of the classes enumerated had
not secured their positions in the former Bureau of Prohibition through proper
civil-service examination and. second. that the employees of these classes
who were separated from the service under the provisions of the Executive
order of June 10. 1933, who had not been reappointed prior to the expiration

approximately from the service at the close of business on August 9. As authorized by

rated Executive order, 1,191 of this number were reappointed on August 10, in
the the Alcoholic Beverage Unit, to which the functions of the Prohibition Service

now assigned. During the period which intervened between August 9

were and the transfer of the personnel to the Bureau of Internal Revenue reinstated a consid-

erable number of those separated from the service on August 9 were

and a number of new appointments were made, under special Executive author- of

without regard to the civil-service rules. In the same period upward On
ization. additional clerks and investigators were separated from the service.
300 May 10. 1934, when the personnel was transferred to the Bureau of Internal
Revenue It consisted of 977 persons, exclusive of approximately 70 who were

retained in the Department of Justice. Of this number 639 were investigators
or field agents
The remainder were clerical and technical employees of various
classifications

THE ALCOHOL TAX UNIT

With the repeal of the prohibition amendment in December 1933, It was determined by the President, upon the advice of the Attorney General and the Secre-

of the Treasury. that responsibility for the enforcement of Federal laws

of the 4-month period defined in that order. had lost their eligibility for

relating tary to the production and distribution of alcoholic beverages should properly

reinstatement under the civil-service rules and that, therefore, the appointment
of
698
such persons
in the Bureau of Industrial Alcohol, as above described
was
notofauthorized
by law.

be transferred from the Department of Justice to the Bureau of Internal Revenue

and this transfer was ultimately consummated by Executive Order No. 6639,

dated March 10. 1934. which became effective on May 10. 1934. Pending this

C

the

transfer It was also determined that the Treasury Department, through
Bureau of Industrial Alcohol, should at once lay plans for the enforcement of

As to the first of these points, It has already been observed that the field

agents ho were in the service of the Bureau of Prohibition prior to the
abolishment of that Bureau by the Executive order of June 10. 1933, had,

the Internal-revenue laws relating to intoxicating beverages and to recruit personnel which could be used in enforcement work in different parts of the country

After conference with the Civil Service Commission It was determined by the
Department that the only available means of recruiting an experienced force
would be by making appointments, by reinstatement, from among the approximately 2,000 investigators and agents who had been separated from the Department of Justice under the provisions of the Executive Order of June 10. 1933,
as above noted. Accordingly. the records of all such investigators and agents
were carefully examined by the Commissioner of Industrial Alcohol and during
the period from February 1 to April 1934. 698 men were selected for appointment to the rolls of the Bureau of Industrial Alcohol in this way, and their
reinstatement was authorized by the Civil Service Commission In making these
appointments the sole basis taken was the efficiency, character, and disciplinary
records of the men and no consideration was given to any other factor.
aid him in passing upon these records the Commissioner of Industrial Alcohol
made use of a committee informally designated by him and consisting of experienced officers selected from the Bureau of Industrial Alcohol, the Intelligence
Unit of the Bureau of Internal Revenue, and the Alcoholle Beverage Unit of the

To

without exception received their appointments as the result of regular open
competitive civil-service examinations or, in rare instances, by transfer from
positions In the classified civil service, or by reinstatement in accordance with
the civil-service rules. The claim has been made that the civil-service examinations to which this personnel were subjected amounted to nothing more than
so-called character tests or, in other words, that they were not required
to pass a mental examination but were virtually blanketed into the service.
There is no evidence to support this charge. The record shows no instance
of blanketing into the service. The facts with reference to the examinations
given have been set forth above, but It will be well to add that of the persons
who were employed in the former Bureau of Prohibition prior to the estab
lishment of civil-service requirements only 268 remained on May 10. 1934,
when the residue of the prohibition organization was consolidated in the
Alcohol Tax Unit of the Treasury Department these survivors, of course,
having qualified in the meantime on open competitive civil-service examination
Of this number 132 were reinstated in the Bureau of Industrial Alcohol during February and March 1934, and 136 were transferred from the Alepholic
Beverage Unit of the Department of Justice. There is attached hereto a

Department of Justice.

list of such employees.

On May 10. 1934. under the provisions of Executive Order No. 0639, the
personnel of the Bureau of Industrial Alcohol and the Alcoholic Beverage

enumerated who were separated from the service by operation of the Executive

As to the second point. that Is, the charge that employees of the classes

Including approximately 300 clerical employees. Exact records of the personnel

transactions which occurred in the Department of Justice during the period under

discussion are not available in the Treasury Department.

'The reinstatement eligibility of classified employees who are separated from the

service without fault is by Executive order Employees eligible rein-

statement are not listed by the Civil Service Commission in the order of their eligibility
and reinstatement must any case be made upon the judgement and opinion of the
appointing officer as to the qualifications of those eligible. subject to the approval

of

the Civil Service Commission

29

order of June 10, 1933. unless reappointed in the Alcoholic Beverage Unit
within the 4-month period named In that order, were Ineligible to be reinstated
under the civil-service rules, It must be said that this is a point which received
no attention by the Department at the time 698 of these employees were reinstated in the Bureau of Industrial Alcohol, as above described It will be
remembered that the Executive order of June 10 had application to a large
number of agencies In various executive departments which were either
abolished or consolidated by its provisions. Thousands of employees In various
branches of the Government were affected by the provisions of the order requir-

30

TREASURY AND POST OFFICE APPROPRIATION BILL, 1936

(

c
TREASURY AND POST OFFICE APPROPRIATION BILL, 1936

ing their separation from the service: and it was a matter of common knowl.
edge at the time that all such employees from whatever agencies separated
were considered not only by the appointing officers in the executive departments generally, but by the Civil Service Commission also, as retaining their
eligibility for reinstatement under the civil-service rules without any regard
to the 4-month limitation found in the Executive order. The appointments
were made by the Bureau of Industrial Alcohol in good faith in accordance
with the common practice which prevailed at the time. It was not until weeks
after the consummation of these appointments that it came to the notice of
the Treasury Department that the eligibility of the persons selected for reinstatement In the Bureau of Industrial Alcohol had been brought into question
The merits of this contention must. of course, depend upon the meaning and
intent of the provision of the Executive order of June 10. which was quoted
on page 5. above. A construction of this provision was requested of the Attorney General by the President following the raising of the question during the
month of May 1934. In response to the President's request the Attorney General, under date of May 26, 1934. rendered an opinion reading, in part, as
follows

The CHAIRMAN. Yes, sir.

Secretary
while
he was MORGENTHAU
in the service. Dr. Viner was on the stabilization pay roll
The CHAIRMAN. I know, but why should it have been supposed that

Dr. Viner, who, as I am informed maybe incorrectly- had any
banking experience, particularly with the technique of banking, could

know more about the banking situation than the two banking and

currency committees of Congress, both of which had recently spent 18

months in a complete review of the banking situation all over the

country. Why was it supposed that he could, by assembling a staff of

some
knew!

The CHAIRMAN. Maybe you can, but Dr. Viner could not.
Secretary MORGENTHAU. I am sure I cannot, either.
The CHAIRMAN. In his report he did not discuss a single, solitary
problem that had not been discussed over and over again by the Banking and Currency Committee

separated from the service, but the head of any successor agency is authorized

to reappoint within a certain period without reexamination or loss of civil
service status, any of such personnel required for the work of the successor
agency. The purpose of this provision, as its language clearly Indicates, is
to enable the head of the successor agency within a limited period to make

Respectfully submitted
ARTHUR J. MELLOTT.

Deputy Commissioner of Internal Revenue

Senator HAYDEN. Is the bill which passed the House satisfactory to

you!

Secretary MORGENTHAU With certain exceptions.
Mr. BELL Two or three items.
DR. VINER'S REVIEW OF BANKING CONDITIONS IN A FEDERAL RESERVE
DISTRICT

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Secretary, I would like to ask you one ques-

tion. I would like to be advised under what authority of law the

Treasury employed a gentleman from Chicago to assemble what I am
told was a rather numerous and costly staff to make a review of banking conditions in one Federal Reserve banking district and to make
recommendations as to certain alterations of the law.
Secretary MORGENTHAU. Mr. Chairman, you are referring to Dr.

Viner 1

60 persons, I am told, tell us more about it than we already

Secretary MORGENTHAU. Senator, I do not think that he or I had
any
idea that we could tell you more than you yourself knew of those
conditions.

The language of the paragraph in question is plain and unambiguous It
speaks for itself. Under the provisions of the paragraph the personnel employed in connection with any abolished agency or function disposed of are

reappointments from among such personnel without regard to the civil-service
act and rules. Not even by the remotest implication of the language employed
can It be said that It deprives or attempts to deprive those who are not reappointed within the prescribed period of the eivil-service status possessed by
them at the time of their separation from the service."
At least from the standpoint of the appointing officers this is believed to
dispose of any question which may have been raised with respect to the civil
service eligibility of persons separated from classified positions pursuant to the
provisions of the Executive order of June 10. Such persons must be deemed
to have retained their eligibility for reinstatement in accordance with the usual
civil-service rules. Certainly there can be no greater reason for questioning
the status of the 698 men who were reinstated in the Bureau of Industrial
Alcohol under the circumstances surrounding this particular case than to raise
a similar question with regard to former classified employees of any agency
abolished by the Executive order of June 10, who may have received employment by reinstatement. in classified positions in other branches of the Federal
service.

31

(

Secretary MORGENTHAU. If I may take a moment to explain, the
work that he did at my direction was a combination relating to the
Comptroller's office. Federal Deposit Insurance, the R. F. C., and the
Federal Reserve. The idea was to go into the field in a Federal
Reserve district and, by asking a series of questions, try to find out
just one ing-whether the borrower was able to get his accommodations from the banks or whether he was not, and just where the blame
lay. In many cases letters would come to my desk where a borrower,
particularly the small business man, would want to borrow $25,000 or
$50,000, and in many cases the letters would say, " We cannot get it.

We would write to the banker and ask him whether this was a fair
letter or whether it was not a fair letter. In many cases the answer
would come back that the bank examiner was so strict in his bank

examinations that the banks were afraid to make loans in their

anxiety to keep liquid. This happened a number of times, and there
was enough discussion of them, of what was a slow loan and what
was not, that I felt that the best answer and, as far as I knew, no
such work had been undertaken by Congress was to get a group of
men to make a combined investigation for the four agencies, which

included the Comptroller, R. F. C., Federal Reserve, and F. C.

With their backing and with their cooperation, we wanted to go into
the field and ask, as I remember it, 2,000 borrowers, 2,000 banks,
taking the cases that had come to our attention, whether the small
business man was getting his accommodation or not,
As far as I know. that did not duplicate any work that Congress
had been doing, and it was an original piece of work. I, as Secretary
of the Treasury, in connection with recovery, was trying to find out
just one thing-whether these complaints were justified or not, and
that was the purpose of the report. Not only was Dr. Viner interested, but we also got the services and the advice of the Brookings
Institute
The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Secretary, what did it cost the Government
Secretary MORGENTHAU. About $25,000.
Hogos

Indi

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32 TREASURY AND POST OFFICE APPROPRIATION BILL, 1936

TREASURY AND PORT OFFICE APPROPRIATION BILL, 1936

33

Senator McKELLAR. And out of what appropriation was it taken
The CHAIRMAN. If Mr. Viner had come over to my office, which
would have cost him 20 cents in taxicab hire, I could have given him
a pile of letters and interrogatories sent out that would have been a
much more complete answer to his inquiries than his report indicated

banking conditions was a mistake. The public statement was made
that Mr. Jones, of the R. F. C., cooperated in the report on banking
conditions. Both of them told me, personally and explicitly, they
had nothing in the world to do with the report on changes in the

Secretary MORGENTHAU. It was not the effort of one man. It was
the efforts of the four financial agencies of the Government.
The CHAIRMAN. Moreover, he recommended the abrogation of certain provisions of the Banking Act of 1933 that had been specially
requested to be incorporated by the President, without knowing the
history of it, without knowing why it was put in, or without telling
us why it should be eliminated.
Secretary MORGENTHAU. I just do not know to what part you
refer, but that is the whole story.
Senator McKELLAR Out of what appropriation was it paid

connection Tave you the right to appoint such technical advisers
as you desire, and pay them, and if so, out of what appropriation
Secretary MORGENTHAU. I have the right to appoint, under the

that the was able to make himself.

Mr. BELL Dr. Viner's salary was paid out of the stabilization

fund. His force was paid out of the emergency banking appropria-

tion.

The CHAIRMAN. Just on that point of emergency banking, I notice
in the hearings before the House, last December, speaking of one
expenditure in the various departments, of $1,300,000, and the fur
ther expenditure of some $2,153,000, Mr. McReynolds stated that the
expenditure was specifically authorized by the 1935 Banking Act.
At that time there could not have been any " 1935 Banking Act'
and there has not been any " 1935 Banking Act' since.
Mr. BELL. He meant the Emergency Banking Appropriation Act
of 1933. I am sure that is what he referred to. It is under the 1933
Banking Act, but the appropriations made subsequently.
The CHAIRMAN. He said the 1935 Banking Act.'
Secretary MORGENTHAU. That is a mistake.

Mr. BELL Yes: that is a mistake.
The CHAIRMAN. I do not know of anything, either, in the 1933
Banking Act, which I have here before me, that involved the Treas-

ury in any unusual expenditure.
Secretary MORGENTHAU. Senator, may I further explain about

Dr. Viner He was with me about 6 months and returned to the
University of Chicago on the 1st of January. He was there as economic adviser to me, and this question of a survey in the Chicago

district was something else.

The CHAIRMAN. I know, but that was one that vitally affected
the banking system of the country. Mr. Viner did not communicate
with any members of the Federal Reserve Board or, as far as I have
learned, any responsible officials of Federal Reserve banks. He did
not communicate with a single member of either Banking and Currency Committee of Congress. I could have given, without cost, or
course, vastly more information than his report indicated he had
obtained by the examination of a single Federal Reserve banking
district.
Secretary MORGENTHAU. Senator, I am sorry, but I think you have
been misinformed. The whole Federal Reserve Board, and the Governors, were entirely acquainted with this, and cooperated with us.

The CHAIRMAN. Governor Black told me explicitly that the publie statement made that he cooperated in Dr. Viner's report on the

banking system.

Senator McKELLAR. Mr. Secretary, may I ask one question in that

stabilization fund, such people as I need to help me in the work.
The CHAIRMAN. But there is no question of stabilization involved
in this Viner inquiry.
Secretary MORGENTHAU. Senator, I got him originally on account

of the fact that I understood he was recognized as 1 of the 3

of 4 men who knew more about international currencies than anybody else in the United States, and he was retained for that purpose.
The CHAIRMAN. He certainly does not know more about domestic
banking and currency than anybody else in the United States.
Secretary MORGENTHAU. No: I am talking about international

currencies.

The CHAIRMAN. He certainly does not know more about banking
and currency than anybody else in the United States.
Secretary MORGENTHAU. But I am very sorry to hear that Mr.
Jones did not know about it. I cannot understand that.
The CHAIRMAN. I did not say that Mr. Jones said he did not know

about it. It was publicly reported that Mr. Jones and Governor

Black had approved the report on banking conditions, and both of
them denied to me that they had approved it. However, that may

be water over the dam but it is good as an illustration.

Secretary MORGENTHAU. But I am quite sure that Mr. Jones, or his
office, read the whole report before it was published, and personally
approved it.
The CHAIRMAN. I dug through every word of it.
Secretary MORGENTHAU. You might ask me, some time.
The CHAIRMAN. Let me ask you now: Have you read the 79 pages
of a tentative draft of a banking bill that has been sent up to us
Secretary MORGENTHAU No, sir.
The CHAIRMAN. How!
Secretary MORGENTHAU. No. sir.
The CHAIRMAN. Of course not.
Senator McKELLAR. Mr. Secretary, you are an honest man

PAYMENT TO PERSONS WHOSE NOMINATIONS ARE REJECTED BY THE
SENATE

The CHAIRMAN. Senator Lonergan, is there something you want to
say to the committee
Senator LONERGAN. Yes, sir.
STATEMENT OF SENATOR AUGUSTINE LONERGAN

Senator LONERGAN. The appropriation bill for the Departments of
State, Justice, and Judiciary, also the Departments of Commerce

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TREASURY AND POST OFFICE APPROPRIATION BILL, 1936

TREASURY AND POST OFFICE APPROPRIATION BILL, 1936

and Labor, was passed by the Senate the other day. Page 100, section 2, reads:

destroying and tearing down of an $800,000 building for the erection
of a $90,000 post office, understanding that an allocation has already

34

That no part of the money appropriated under this act shall be paid to any
person for the filling of any position for which be or she has been nominated
after the Senate has voted not to approve of the nomination of said person.

Senator McKELLAR Page 66.
Senator LONERGAN. This provision was incorporated in the law
last year. in the Treasury and Post Office Department bills, and in
this bill, last year, so, what I would like to have done, is to have this
paragraph incorporated in the Treasury and Post Office Departments'
appropriation bill.
Senator McKELLAR You mean. for instance, that if a man were
appointed postmaster and were rejected by the Senate, he could not
be paid if he were kept in office
Senator LONERGAN. Yes, sir; that is it.

Senator McKELLAR I think that is manifestly right.
The CHAIRMAN. All right, sir,
Senator LONERGAN. Thank you.

The CHAIRMAN. We will take it up at the proper time.
POST OFFICE SITE, BREMERTON, WASH.

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Walker. the committee understands you want
to be heard on something about the post-office building site in your
city.

Mr. WALKER. Yes, sir.
Senator McKELLAR. Page 37 of the bill.

Senator O'MAHONEY Mr. Walker, let me ask you first to give the
reporter your name, your residence, and what your position is in the
town. if any.
STATEMENT OF JOHN WALKER, ACTING SECRETARY. MER.
CHANTS ASSOCIATION COMMITTEE, BREMERTON, WASH.

Mr. WALKER. I am John Walker. Bremerton, acting secretary of
the Merchants Association Committee. to protest the location of the
post office in the Navy Yard Hotel, for the reason that citizens at
Bremerton. for a long time, struggled to get the Navy Yard Hotel
built. I am here to request you to consider the protests of a good
many of the people of Bremerton against the provision set forth in
H. R. 4442, page 37. the first 7 lines. They wish to enter their protest
against the transfer of that property for the use of a post office.
During the time of the war, when there was an emergency, an
appropriation was made and a contract was finally let for the sum

of $800,000. The building was built. It is a beautiful building.
where it is, well built with concrete and steel, veneered with brick.

The cross-partitions in the building are all the same way. The
floors are made of concrete, and rest upon the cross partitions. It
is connected by an underground tunnel with the navy yard. It

backs up against the navy yard fence line property
Last year, or the year before, out of the Public Works fund, the
road between the navy yard fence and the building was paved. The

principal objection as to the Navy Yard Hotel, therefure, is the

35

been made of $121,000 for a post office for Bremerton, after they
have waited for 40 years to get a post office of their own, living in
rented property, now, that has become inadequate because of its
size. That is the main thing, just because of its size. Ite location,
and the position of the post office, has never been objectionable to

the people of Bremerton, where they have to do work, and when this
bill was proposed, in order that the money could be used by the unemployed, in order to begin work, by immediately making available
the Navy Yard Hotel, it had passed the House, two readings in the
Senate, and come up to this committee, before they had proper notice
that it probably would be transferred and the work would start: so
they asked me if I would run down and bring the protests of the
people that had built up the city,
When it was laid out by Mr. Bremer and the admiral of the navy
yards, at the time of the founding of Bremerton, it was a system
of coordination between the navy yard proper, shown by this space
here [referring to a map], this being the drydocks in these buildings, and the commercial business of Bremerton: the commercial
business of Bremerton, or Bremerton itself, would exist because of
the navy yard and the employment and the money expended there.
Senator McKELLAR Where is the present post office, on the map!
Mr. WALKER. The present post office is right there [indicating].
Senator McKELLAR. Where is the proposed site
Mr. WALKER. That [indicating] is the proposed site.
Senator McKELLAR. Right across the street from it
Mr. WALKER. That is the proposed site
Senator McKELLAR Where is the hotel
Mr. WALKER. Here is the Navy Yard Hotel.
Senator NORBECK. How many blocks is it from the present location of the post office to the Navy Yard Hotel!
Mr. WALKER. You see, there is no regularity to the size of the

blocks.

Senator McKELLAR What is the distance
Senator O'MAHONEY. What is the distance
Mr. WALKER From the present post office to the other post-office
site, I would say approximately 2,000 feet.
Senator MCKELLAR How large is the town1
Mr. WALKER. The fixed population of Bremerton is between 12,000
and 15,000, while the floating population is probably 25,000++be-

tween 25,000 and 30,000. On this little map or blueprint that I

have here, the green property is the high-rental area, the blue prop.
erty is the secondary, and the white area would be the residence
property, and this [indicating] is the apartment-house area.
As you see, all traffic to Bremerton comes in by water. If you go
to Seattle, it is a distance of 15 miles, approximately, by water, but

you would travel 150 miles by road in order to get there. There
is one way in. and that is by the municipal dock, right here. All

the ferry lines comes in here, all passenger traffic and all commerce
comes over this dock. As you come up Front Street, a distance of
three or four hundred feet, you enter the DAYV yard gate, into the

navy yard.

down

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TREASURY AND POST OFFICE APPROPRIATION BILL, 1936

38

Mr. WALKER. Yes: because of the fact that, 40 or 50 years from
now, after waiting for 40 or 50 years, the post office would never be
in the business center. It would not be where the people have concentrated their effort to beautify it and to make it convenient for the
business traffic of the city. Here is the main way. The main way is

across a bridge to East Bremerton. The main way out into the
country is here [referring to map]. If you come here. you go to this
corner, and out this way. This is on & side street. This is blocked
over here. It is blocked over this way, and it never will be on any-

c
TREASURY AND POST OFFICE APPROPRIATION BILL, 1936

would have had about 20,000, and for which they would have had to
pay about $20,000 apiece.

The statement that the old Navy Yard Hotel cost $800,000 I think
is a little exaggerated, but assuming that it did cost that much, it was

built during the war, and it was not built with Government funds
The Bremerton Boosters Club and many officers of the Navy subscribed to stock, and the United States Housing Corporation built it.
They put up a steel-and-concrete structure there that is such that it
cannot be used for anything else. The fact of the matter is that the

thing but a back street, backing up against the navy-yard fence, next
to the boiler houses, and next to the foundry, next to the smokestacks
of the foundry.

Navy has sent. T think. two or three commissions to see if they could
do remodeling so it could be used for Navy purposes, and they have
all recommended adversely, because you cannot change it due to its
structure.

STATEMENT OF HON. MARION A ZIONCHECK, REPRESENTATIVE
FIRST CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICT, STATE OF WASHINGTON,

The Navy itself has taken out all the plumbing fixtures and all the
bathtub fixtures and everything that is removable for salvage. They
have no intention of using this hotel for any purpose whatsoever.
In 1923 they leased it to a private concern to operate it as a hotel,
but they went bankrupt within 1 year. Since 1924 the only purpose
for which this old Navy Yard Hotel has been used has been the storage of old blueprints. The impression is given that it is being used as
R storage house. Just about two rooms are being used for the storage
of blueprints, and in the last 2 years, I think, some old clothes for the

The CHAIRMAN. I think we understand it, Mr. Walker, all right.

SEATTLE, WASH

Mr. ZIONCHECK. Mr. Chairman. my name is Marion Zioncheck, and

I am the Representative of the First Congressional District of the
State of Washington, that takes in the city of Seattle, and Kitsap
County in which the city of Bremerton is located. With your permission, and with the committee's permission, I would like to present
a little different view of this whole situation.
The CHAIRMAN. Yes.

Mr. ZIONCHECK. I will make it as brief as possible, if you will let

me have that map, Mr. Walker. I want the committee to understand that my primary interest is to get a new post office for Bremerton, because it is sadly needed. It is a live and growing community.
They have a large navy yard there. The Post Office Department has
had submitted to it this site and several others in the town, and the

postal inspector, after thoroughly going into this site matter about

2 or 3 years ago. recommended two sites. The first choice was upon
Sixth and Pacific.
Senator NORBECK. What committee!
Mr. ZIONCHECK. The Post Office Committee, or the inspectors.
Senator NORBECK. Oh, the inspectors?

Mr. ZIONCHECK Yes. They recommended a site here pointing
to Sixth and Pacific]. which would cost $26,000. and it would require
the tearing down of a building. Their second choice was a site one-

half block away from the Navy Yard Hotel site-i e., at Gourth and
Park. It is just 1 block, say that it is out of the way,
Senator NORBECK. How long a block!

Mr. ZIONCHECK. Well, you have it right here [referring to the
map. They are the regulation blocks in here. These cross blocks are

shorter, There is the business district, right in here [indicating],

now

Senator McCARRAN When you say "here you refer to blocks 15,

16. and 17

Mr. ZIONCHECK. That is right-right in there [indicating]. gas
stations, garages. and businesses of that pature surround the Navy
Hotel site, It is not residential property as such. There are 71,000
square feet of land on this particular plot. On these other plots they

39

unemployed.

have the testimony of Admiral Peoples. He says that the hotel
is of no value whatsoever. It is an eyesore
This is an age-old controversy there, of trying to get the post
office east of Pacific Avenue in order to revive property values along
Washington Street, which is a comparatively dead street. Anyone
comingAvenue.
to Bremerton comes to the dock. comes up here, and comes up
Pacific

Senator McCARRAN. Where is the hotel of the town now!
Mr. ZIONCHECK There is one hotel here [indicating], and there

are several apartment houses right in this district in here [indi
eating] which have all moved in this westerly direction. It is a
small town, 12,000 population They would not have any large
hotels.
Senator McCARRAN. Is there a commercial hotel there that is
patronized by the traveling public
Mr. ZIONCHECK The only one is over there [indicating] There
is a peculiar situation in Bremerton, in that the Bremers, for whom
the town was named. still own about half the property. They own
a bank, they own this [indicating], and they own that [indicating]
They virtually own the town, outside of the navy yard, and their
chief concern is to keep up the rental values of the property east of
Pacific Avenue and revive the rental values.
Mr. Case was sent there, subsequent to the previous postal inspec-

tors' survey, to go into the matter, to see whether there was any
collusion or fraud, because there is an allegation and I do not think
Mr. Walker will deny it-that a fund of $19,000 was collected in
order to locate the post-office site at this place on Washington Street.
On this proposed site, in fact. one man that I know of, who happens
to be an official in the Demoeratic Party, had $5,000 to come back

here and see that it was put over and he returned $4.500 of it,

because he only used $500 for his traveling expenses, and could not

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40 TREASURY AND POST OFFICE APPROPRIATION BILD, 1936

TREASURY AND POST OFFICE APPROPRIATION BILL, 1936

of the Procurement Division, testified before the Appropriations

connect" in the parlance of the street. I cannot see any justifica-

Committee, or Treasury and Post Office, in the House, that there was

tion myself.

Let me go on with Mr. Case. Mr. Case came to Bremerton and
held a public meeting. I happened to be in the town that day.
didn't know the meeting was going to be held.

41

no use for this hotel, that the Navy is willing to turn it over, the
Tresaury Department was willing to accept it. Tentative plans are
already drawn for this site [indicating], rough plans. They can-

I

not go into the detailed plans until the action of the Senate is taken.
Senator Bone does not know much about the matter. I called it to
his attention, and it seems reasonable to him. That, you know, is
his reaction upon it. Senator Schwellenbach, a new Senator from
our State, is more familiar with the particular problem.

Senator O'MAHONEY. Who was Mr. Case
Mr. ZIONCHECK. Mr. Case was with the Post Office Department

That is just within the last year. There were about 300 people at
the meeting. Mr. Case asked me to make some comment on it. I
said, I have no comment to make. My only concern as a Repre-

If there are any questions, I would be glad to answer them. I

sentative is to do what the people want done, and get proper postal

facilities, which is primarily to deliver mail and get mail out."
asked the people at this meeting, in order to get an expression of
opinion of those 250 or 300 that were there, if they could get the

I

Navy Yard Hotel site and get that building, which is an eyesore, out
of the way, how many of them would prefer that as their first choice,
and 95 percent of them stood up on a rising vote of the people of
the town.

Then I said, If you cannot get the Navy Yard Hotel site, how
many of you would favor the post office being west of Pacific Ave-

nuel That is, being west of this particular avenue [indicating].
Ninety-five percent of them again wanted it west of Pacific Avenue.
About 90 percent of the population of Bremerton live west of this
street, because this is a peninsula.

The town must expand to the west because the water will not permit them to expand in any other direction.
Under the circumstances, I do not know what else I can say. The

people want the Navy Yard Hotel site. Outside of a few interests,
like the Bermers, a man by the name of Mehnor and 3 or 4 or 5
others, everybody that I know of wants it the other way.
You have an 80-foot paved street here [indicating] You have
an 80-foot paved street on Burwell. That is on one side of the
Navy Yard Hotel site, and an 80-foot paved street here [indicating].
You have paved alleys on both sides of it. You have ample space
for parking. You will have ample space for beautification, if you
want it. Instead of a $90,000 post-office building, a $121,000 post
office can be built.

There is a contractor in Bremerton who claims he can tear down
the old hotel for what salvage he can get out of it, such as the windows and the different odds and ends, and the pipes that he can
take out, but assuming that it costs $5,000, which is the estimate of

Commander Warfield, who is in charge of Public Works, to tear
down this hotel and remove the debris, the debris will again be used
as a breakwater for a park and employment will be created.
By the way, Mr. Walker has a letter from a commissioner, but it

is dated back 2 or 3 years, which says that they want it east of

Pacific Avenue, but every commissioner that I have talked to, every
elected official. and the citizens generally, and the navy-yard employees, want it west of Pacific. The Navy Yard Hotel site can be
used for nothing else. It is an eyesore, and it was not Government
funds that were expended, in the first place, for the building of it.

The people that own stock in it are willing that it be torn down,
because it is a reminder to them of money badly spent. I do not
know of any legitimate argument against this. Admiral Peoples,

am quite familiar with this situation.
They can talk about the navy-yard workers going this way. Well,
true enough, about a thousand of them live in the city of Seattle;
but if they live in the city of Seattle, they get their mail in the city
of Seattle, they do not go to the post office; and as far as the central
business district is concerned, it centers right upon Fourth and
Pacific, or probably Third and Pacific, and that is merely one block
awayHotel
fromsite.
the proposed post-office site, or the present Old Navy
Yard
Senator O'MAHONEY Mr. Chairman, for the benefit of the record.
I want to call attention to the fact that on pages 635 and 636 of
the hearings of the House committee it appears that Mr. Martin,
from the Procurement Division. testified that it was the desire of the
Treasury Department to procure this site, and Admiral Peoples, in
response to a question by Mr. Arnold, who asked him if he had any
proposal of landowners, said: Yes."
It reads as follows:
The Secretary of the Treasury and the Postmaster General, acting under
the provisions of the Emergency Appropriation Act, fiscal 1935, having determined upon the construction of a post-office building at Bremerton, Wash.. and
It having been decided that the most desirable site for such building is a
piece of Government-owned property formerly acquired by the Secretary of the
Navy, but not now needed for naval purposes, the Secretary of the Navy is

hereby authorized to transfer to the Treasury Department the property

located on the south side of Fourth Street opposite the terminus of Park Avenue in the city of Bremerton, Wash. known as the Navy Yard Hotel site
and the Secretary of the Treasury is authorized to construct thereon said
post-office building within the limit of cost specified in House Report No.

1879, Seventy-third Congress, second session.

Mr. ZIONCHECK. Are there any other questions?

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Congressman, we are obliged to you for

coming.

Mr. ZIONCHECK. gave the presentation just as I see it. I am not
concerned with sites particularly. I do think that the people are to
be served, and their interests and their desires should be considered,
particularly in view of the fact that this was considered a desirable

enough site for a hotel, that the foundations were proper for a

large hotel, that the needs of foundations for the post office will not

be as great as the hotel itself.

Relative to the argument that this was a swamp property, I reply,
true enough. The property was first acquired by the Navy for water
purposes, before the city had its water, and since that time they have
had no need for it.

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TREASURY AND POST OFFICE APPROPRIATION BILL, 1936

42 TREASURY AND POST OFFICE APPROPRIATION BILL, 1936

It is whatever the committee desires, not my desire. I just wanted
to make this presentation.
The CHAIRMAN. We have both sides of the question now.
Mr. WALKER Mr. Chairman, if you do not mind. I would like, for
the record, to say that I wish it understood that the protests I carried represented the Navy Yard Y. M. C. A., the Lutheran Brotherhood, with their welfare center, the Knights of Columbus, with their
welfare work and their welfare center. the banks of the city of Bremerton. three in number, the Bremerton Merchants Association, con-

sisting of 90 percent of all the merchants within the city limits of

Bremerton: that it also represents Father Cameron, of the Catholic
Church, who has spent a lifetime there as the father in the district
and has had an interest in building up that community; that it represents, besides that, numerous of the local citizens, civic and community organizations that have an interest in the city of Bremerton:
that it represents the people who pay taxes in that city. three times
greater on the proportion of the marked lines than all the rest of
the city of Bremerton put together; that not only those people protest, but the people that are interested in all of the welfare work that
is carried on in connection with the navy yard.
The CHAIRMAN. All right, gentlemen.
Mr. WALKER. If the committee would care to see any of these pho

tographs, I will show you a photograph of the hotel itself.
(The following letter was submitted by Congressman J.
Hoeppel, of California, for the information of the committee:)

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43

that the enlisted men should suffer loss of their reenlistment allowance and

other unnecessary deductions such as I have indicated.

From the standpoint of square dealing I hope your honorable committee will
delete the lines referred to on page 21 of the Treasury Post Office bill.
Thanking
you for your favorable consideration, I'mm,
Sincerely yours,
J. H. HOEPPEL

The clipping referred to is as follows

MAVERICK RIDICULES REQUEST TO SAVE ARMY. NAVY FROM RED
PEOPLE ARE GETTING JITTERY over NOTHING, SAYS TEXAS LEADER

(By the Associated Press)
A House military subcommittee WAN advised yesterday by Army and Navy
spokesmen to act against an increasing flow of propaganda seeking to enlist
American soldiers and sallors into ranks of communism
At the same time, however, a member of the full Military Committee, Rep
resentative Maverick (Democrat), Texas, ridiculed suggestions that corrective
legislation
wasnothing
necessary, because, he suid, the American people are getting
jittery over

There are only 24,500 communists In the country, Maverick said, and they
are all crackpots and a 'lousy crew.
War and Navy Department officials asserted there was a real need for

enactment of a bill by Representative McCormack (Democrat), Massachusetts
to stop propaganda seeking to induce persons in the armed forces to break

laws or regulations.
H.

Hon CARTER GLASS.

Chairman Treasury and Post Office Department Subcommittee,
Committee on Appropriations, United States Senate, Washington, D. c.
DEAR SENATOR GLASS I am very sorry that your committee's time is so limited

that I could not be granted an opportunity to appear personally therefore I am
submitting to you briefly the ideas which I had in mind when I requested
permission to appear before your committee.

Will you kindly refer to a clipping herewith from today's paper in reference
to the threat of communism within the ranks of the enlisted personnel of the
Army and Navy? After a service of 22 years in the Army. I am convinced that
communism will not thrive in the Army as long as the enlisted men are given

In a letter to the full Military Committee, Secretary Swanson asserted that
communistic literature in increasing quantities had been distributed to the
Navy. Existing law was Inadequate to curb it. he said.
Brig. Gen Harry E Knight said that communists are more active In Army
circles than they were a year ago.
Comdr. Samuel Clements of the Navy added that some communistic literature urges comrades to work themselves into munitions plants in time

of war to concentrate on sabotage.
The McCormack bill was termed by Henry L. Roosevelt, Assistant Secretary

of the Navy, necessary to prevent persistent and continued attempts to Incite
Maverlek then tossed in this remark
If the colonels and generals had tact, courage, loyalty. and brains enough.
they would keep the soldiers from disloyalty
the naval forces to disobey laws and regulations.

line

fair consideration.

At present fair and just consideration is not being extended to enlisted men,
and I do know that there is considerable dissatisfaction, but not communism.
The Treasury-Post Office bill. now before your committee, on page 21. lines 17
to 21. includes a provision which will prevent enlisted men from receiving their
reenlistment bonuses for another year. In other words, the enlisted men will be
the only individuals who will suffer the provisions of the economy act up to the
fiscal year 1937.

In justice to the enlisted men. I hope your honorable committee will delete these

lines in order that the enlisted men may be accorded fair treatment compared
with other branches of the military and civil service.
The enlisted man who receives $9 per month less than does the boy in the
C.C.C. who works only 30 hours per week, while the enlisted man is on duty
and available every hour. day and night. feels that this is a discrimination
Just a few days ago the Senate passed 8 bill to provide a 25-cent deduction
per month from the already low-paid enlisted man. who réceives only $21 per
month.

AMERICAN FEDERATION OF GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEES

Washington, D. C., March 1. 1935.
Hon. CARTER GLASS.

United States Senate, Washington, D. C.
Mx DEAR SENATOR GLASS: In order to expedite the work of the Appropriations Committee in handling the Treasury-Post Office bill an oral presentation

will not be necessary.

However, It would be extremely appreciated if you would consider and
incorporate in the proceedings of the committee the attached memorandum
which reflects the point of view of the American Federation of Government
Employees, with respect to the nonpayment of several hundred present employees of the Government working In the Alcohol Tax Unit of the Treasury

Department

Respectfully yours,

E. CLAUDE BABCOCK President.

It is my observation that these petty discriminations directed at the enlisted

men will do more to create communism, If such Is really a menace, than will any
propaganda from outside sources.

Only yesterday, as I understand, your committee approved of S. 1940, which

seeks to grant quarter and subsistence increases to officers. I cannot understand this, and do not think It is fair that the officers should receive Increased
rank and promotion, Increased pay and subsistence, and other emoluments, and

AMERICAN FEDERATION OF GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEES.

Washington, D. C.

Statement of E. Clande Babcock. president American Federation of Government Employees, before the Senate Appropriations Committee:

Mr. Chairman and gentlemen of this committee, we are here to ask justice
for some 1,100 or more employees of the Alcohol Tax Unit who have been

44

TREASURY AND POST OFFICE APPROPRIATION BILL, 1936

TREASURY AND POST OFFICE APPROPRIATION BILL, 1936

working without pay since December 1, 1934, as a result of the wording of the
rider on last year's deficiency bill which withholds money from these men,
The Attorney General ruled in the case of these employees that they might
lawfully be retained in their positions but that they could not be paid from any
appropriations already in existence unless they were newly appointed to such
positions after passing new competitive examinations. The Secretary of the
Treasury realized that these men's services were essential to the law-enforcement work of his agency, and that the Alcohol Tax Unit would be disrupted
If they were summarily ousted and replaced by Inexperienced men who has
somewhat greater facility in the use of words. It was generally recognized,
think, that the Civil Service Commission's examination, required by the deficiency bill rider, for the most part had no relation whatsoever to the work
on which these men were engaged, and that success in passing the examination afforded no guaranty whatsoever that there would be equal success in
holding down a job in the Alcohol Tax Unit. Specifically no credit was given
for efficient service on the Job.
Consequently, in the public interest, these men were retained in their posts,
and have gone on working efficiently since December 1, without one cent of pay.
Bet since they are not in general high-salaried men. and contrary to the general impression, did not accumulate wealth as a result of their work. many
of them are now nearing the end of their resources, and some unfortunately
have been forced to quit the service because they can no longer carry on and
support their families without money. merely in the anticipation that some
time in the future they may be paid. As the representative of the American
Federation of Government Employees I submit that the United States Government has no right to subject these men to intolerable hardships of this
sort, or to expect them to work indefinitely without compensation; and the
public reaction has satisfied our federation that the people of this country
do not want any such unfair condition to continue.
There is no question in my mind and no question as to the attitude of my
organization, that these men ought to be restored to a pay status at the
earliest possible moment. After careful consideration of the situation we
have come to the conclusion that the quickest and least embarrassing way of
handling it is to include in this appropriation measure an amount sufficient
to pay them. This amount, we have been informed by Treasury officials, would
be about $1,700,000. If this appropriation is included in the bill. with a proviso
that It be made available immediately, this distressing situation, a situation
which the Government of the United States ought in all conscience to correct,

I

would be promptly remedied.
UNIFORMS FOR GUARDS

I should like also to remark that the guards at the Bureau of Engraving
and Printing, unlike guards in other governmental agencies, are required to
buy their own uniforms, and that this discrimination does not seem justifiable.
We ask that you insert a provision that uniforms for these guards may be
purchased from the funds available for the Bureau-A procedure necessary
because the language of the appropriation measure carrying funds for that
Bureau does not now make them available for such a purpose. No additional
appropriation is needed. and a group of very low-paid employees would be
afforded justice and a substantial improvement in their status.
NATIONAL FEDERATION OF FEDERAL EMPLOYEES

Washington, D. C., March 6, 1935.
Hon CARTER GLASS.

Chairman Senate Appropriations Committee,

United States Capitol, Washington, D.C.

DEAR SENATOR GLASS: The National Federation of Federal Employees
earnestly urges favorable action by the Senate subcommittee on the TreasuryPost Office Departments appropriation bill. of the Item of $1,763,827 requested
by the President to be made immediately available for personal services for
certain employees of the Treasury Department

45

The employees concerned have been performing faithfully the duties assigned
them in connection with the Important work of collecting the revenue for the
United States. The employees concerned are victims of a proviso in the
Emergency Appropriation Act of June 19. 1934, reading as follows:
In view of the foregoing facts It will be correct to say that at the time the
Bureau of Prohibition was transferred from the Treasury Department to the
Department of Justice on July 1, 1930, its personnel was entirely a civil-service
personnel, recruited in full compliance with all the laws and regulations pertaining to the civil-service system."
This amendment refused payment for services performed to approximately
1,300 employees of the Treasury Department from December 1, 1934, to June 30,

1935, because of mistaken impression that these employees had not qualified for
their positions through civil-service examination. The fact is that All of these
employees had duly qualified under civil-service laws and regulations, and the
Attorney General of the United States has held that their present status is
legal and regular. You are. of course familiar with the history of the case.
The Executive order of June 10. 1933, which had to do not only with the
consolidation of the Bureau of Prohibition with the Department of Justice, but
with general reorganization within the Federal service, provided as follows:
"All personnel employed in connection with the work of an abolished agency
or function disposed of shall be separated from the service of the United States,
except that the head of any successor agency, subject to my approval, may,
within a period of 4 months after the transfer or consolidation, reappoint any
of such personnel required for the work of the successor agency without
reexamination or loss of civil-service status."
The Attorney General in construing the language of the above-quoted provision
has given the following opinion:
"The language of the paragraph in question is plain and unambiguous, It
speaks for itself. Under the provisions of the paragraph the personnel employed
In connection with any abolished agency or function disposed of are separated
from the service, but the head of any successor agency is authorized to reappoint

within a certain period without reexamination or loss of civil-service status.

any of such personnel required for the work of the successor agency. The purpose of this provision, as its language clearly indicates, is to enable the head of

the successor agency within a limited period to make reappointments from
among such personnel without regard to the Civil Service Act and rules, Not
even by the remotest implication of the language employed can It be said that
It deprives or attempts to deprive those who are not reappointed within the
prescribed period of the civil-service status possessed by them at the time of
their separation from the service."
When the Bureau of Prohibition was placed within the competitive classified
service on April 1. 1927, the employees then serving in the Bureau of Prohibition were not blanketed into the service but were required to qualify in open
competitive examination. Their competitive classified status was carried over
with them In the reorganization of August 1933.
These employees have been carrying on the difficult and dangerous task of
protecting the Government's Interest in the alcohol-tax collection and protection
work The employees have now been without salary for more than a months
and their situation has become desperate. We bespeak early and favorable
action by the committee. so that these employees, who have demonstrated their
loyalty to the Federal Government. may receive the compensation they have
earned during this period of time
Sincerely,
LUTHER c. STEWARD, President.

46

TREASURY AND POST OFFICE APPROPRIATION BILL, 1936

TREASURY AND POST OFFICE APPROPRIATION BILL, 1936

Present enforcement officers of the Alcohol Taz Unit who occupied excepted
positions in the Prohibition Unit, Treasury Department, prior to Apr. I 1927.
and the have acquired eivil-service status as result of competitive ezaminations held since that date

Present position

Name

47

Present enforcement officers of the Alcohol Taz Unit scho occupied excepted
position in the Prohibition Unit, Treasury Department, prior to Apr I. 1927
and inho have acquired olvil-aervice status as result of competitive crainingtions held since that date-Continued

Date of pronational appointment

Date probational an

from com
cetitive

Name

pointment
from com

Present position

essmination

petitive
examination

Coybe. Robert W

Henneberry, Harold I
Reese Jesish
Shea, Frank

Weaver Henry P
Bird Edward's
ditch, Edward A.

Investigator in charge
Investigator

Investigator in charge

Feb. 16, 1929

Investigator

Feb. 1929
Apr. 1980

Investigator in charge
Investigator

Angelow Thomas

Oct. 6.1928

Nov 15 1930
Feb. 26 1929

Jan. 1999

Eager. Harold

Feb. 28 1999

Graves Fuy B
Hitcheodk William
Kelley, Edward
James

Dennis T

MacHrayne Winfred c
Murphy Thomas F

Brown. Joseph R

Feb. 1.1929
May 1,1990
Oct. 1,1900

Cusack Warren

Daly, William R
Davis Richard

Mar. 21,1930

D'Aneeli Pellegrino

Dec. 1925

Delone, Clark

Feb.

Deardoff Edward R.I

Feb. 1930

Diresse Joseph M.

Dec. 21,1928

Dunn, William E. It

Feb. 192

Feliv. Frederick

Forbes, Charles M
Frayne, Joseph

Gallagher John
CHeeter W Illiam H

Jan. 1925
Senior investigator
Investigator

Gunnison Laurence w
Hall Charles

Hanlon,Arthur

Hartwell, Perley R
Henry. Lawrence
Hildreth James
Journeay Henry
Kesting, Elten
Kelly. Francis
Kendall, Harry
Lennon, John

Jan 25. 1929
Mar. 19 1930

Feb. 1929

May 1929
June 16. 1931

do

Senior investigator
Investigatee

Stevenson, Herman W.
Sweeney. John P.

Oct

do

1,1928

later, Samuel GJ

Isn

Kramar George

Feb 16,1931

Jan 1930
Oct 1998

McCandless Park )

Malley Edward c

Sept. 9,1930
Apr. 24,1928
Oct 16,1928

Shane, Harry

Uptegrafi Frank B
Uptograft Thomas
Weible Charled

Do

Jan 1930

Wills Francis

Aug 14,1928

Young, Robert B

Heddens Warren

Wickham John
Nathaniel C.
Unrender M

Jan. 6.1930
Assistant supervisor
Investigator in charge
Investigator

July 31.1928
1.192M
1.192%

Feb

1929

Jan.
Dec.

R.

1929

Apr 1999

Feb. 1929

do

1930

Oct 1928

Gould, George

Hubert Frank F

Caffey Myron M

Mar 5.1696
Feb. 4,1929
Feb 1.1929

do

1928

1930

Jan

May 1929

Apr

Wire technician
Investigator

Apr 1920
Oct
Jan

Dec

Mar 1900

Newton, Raymond M

Smith Lowell R

investigator

dishop Louis

June 22,1931

Newman Harry

Sposa Joseph

Assistant supervisor

1929

Feb 1929

May 1.1925
Apt.
1,1925
Me

Feb. 1929

Mullaney Charles

Rice, John D.
Rizza Terry

Mar
do

Dunigan William E

Mar. 14,1991

Mar 1927

Murphy, Edward

Renzer Peter

Jan 21,1929

Rapey Harry W

Feb. 1929

Mar. 1930
Rept 1928

Mealy,Joseph /
Morrissey James

Olson. Herbert
Patton Harold
Petitte James K

Feb. 1,1925

Mar. 21. 1930

Lupton, Charles w
McCann. William
MeIntyre Ambrose A.

O'Brien William

Feb. 14, 1929

Apr 1929

Paris. Edgar D.

Langford, Harold

Carrico Andrew

1931

Feb. 20,1990
Jan. 21,1929

Barnhart Charles
Bressler, Arthur D.
Cimbalista. Michael

Feb. 1,2929

1929

Mar

June 28 1999

Sept.

Oct.
Maz

Regan, Leonard

May 1,1929

vestigator

Jan.

Feb. 27 1929

Investigator

Broderlek. James

1929

K.1929

Chidester Thurman

Montgomery John G

Feb 4,1929

Bernstein Carlos M
Brinckerhoff Cifford

11,1928

May

Jones. Orville

Armitage, Vietor

14,1928

Mar

Mar 4,1929

Senior investigator

1929

Feb

Investigator in charge

Jan. 31-1999

Oct 1928

investigator

Senior Investigator

Johnson Julius N

Jan. 14,1929
Feb. 16,1920

Apr

Sept

Investigator In charge

Shirley. Lambert

Mar. 25 1931

Senior Investigator
Investigator

Apr 1930
Mar 1930

Hackman L.Dene

HILL Burr

Fab. 25 1920

Investigator in charge

Food Robert D
Gralton Gregory A

June 22 1981

Sullivan alter H

Hanson Martin o

Investigator

Tatro Joseph

Jam. 31. 1995

May 1929

George

Haumaki Harrs
Tansey Michael

Gorecean Dan H.
Godfres Roland
Herr Cyrus.

Mar. 1929

Hall. John

Norton John
Pallas Fells

Oct. 1996
Jan. 31,1020

Jan. 1930
May 13. 1929
Nov. 19 1928

Jan. 25 1929

May 1981

Sept 1928

Jan. 16, 1928
June 10. 1990

Feb. 1930
Feb. 12 1930

Reinstated as regulative inspectors Burvag of Industrial Alcohol, February-April 1924.

9,1990

Fan.

Samnel C

1929
Do

Cash John I

Dec 1929

Cooper Jabe

Oct. 16,1928

Crush. William B
Disting John

Nov 6,1928

Dec 1928

Jan. 10.1930

LeRoy

Griffin,

Dec 1928

Earman George G

Sarvey Villiam R

food Cheese
Lurst James

July

18,1992
1931

Dec

1928

King Marion R

Dec

1929

London John J.

Dec

1,1926

Lumpkin Frank D.

Mitchel

Lawrence G.

July

Moore,

Mulhal William B

Mar. 16,1929

Owens, John R

Feb. 4.1982

Paul, David ]

do

Hatledge

do

White Samuel o

Wilkins

Thomas

Wood. William
Pennington John D
Koehler, Earle

Cunning Wm
Teaksy, Wm McK

July

Wire technician
Investigator

Sebarts, Walter H
CY

do

July

District supervisor
Investigator in charge.
do

Reinstated regulative Inspectors, Bureau of Industrial Alcohol February-April 1924

TREASURY AND POST OFFICE APPROPRIATION BILL, 1936

TREASURY AND POST OFFICE APPROPRIATION BILL, 1936

Present enforcement officers of the Alcohol Tar Unit who occupied excepted
positions in the Prohibition Unit, Treasury Department, prior to Apr. 1, 1987,
and who have acquired civil-service status as result of competitive examinations held since that date-Continued

Present enforcement officers of the Alcohol Tag Unit who occupied excepted
positions in the Prohibition Unit, Treasury Department, prior to Apr. 1. 1927,
and who have acquired civil-service status as result of competitive examinations held since that date -Continued

48

Date pro-

Date pro-

bational
pointment
Present position

Name

Name

Present position

from com-

petitive

Investigator

Heck Kenneth
Claffey, Joseph H
Evans. Geo. R.

Feb
Oct.

Nov

Hommes,

Kerstetter. Meredith B.
Ward, Edw. M
Ray,

Maloney Lane
Simons, Oustave J

Assistant supervisor (Enf.)
Investigator is charge
Investigator
technician
Investigator

Beaudrie Howard c

Bennett will MA

Browning James GJ

Von Batehelder. Lings

Cowan Morell

Ray

Victor

Knemmertein. John F
Larson. Arthur

Dec.

Aug
Dec.
Feb.

Frank White

Investigator in charge

Chapman, Else
Anderman Emile J.

Investigator

Bryant, George
Cooper Class
Guinn Walter
Holland Lake

Jacob E
Tarris,

Knapp Otis B.
Pollan, Ulous

Rowden Thad
Small George PJ

Wright, Wellington
Campbe Charles

Depew, Charles E
Estalded Howard W
Nichola
Esselton, Reginald

Oct.

Knutson Martin

Mar.

Lippold Burton

Nov

Nelson, Nathan H

May, Gus
Peterson, Edward
Rhoades, Robert

Benson Charles E.
Schroeder, Herman W
Silverman, Maurice
Splawn, Newton

Hudspeth, Goo.

Landry, Edw c
Newman Wm. 8

Matt.

Schrseder Sidney

Weld, Kenneth D

Smith, Edwin
Wright Wiley

Villiams, Clarence

Tuttle, Robert

Hearington, William D
Andrews, James E

District supervisor
Investiator in charge

Homer

Investigator

Oct.

June

Drew, Harry
Reeves, Clarence

Lawrence David

Feb.
Dec.

Mar.

Seaver, George

Day, Illiam

Sweet. George

Grubba Walter

Tingle Benjamin H.

Kimsey, Joseph R

Ure. John E.I

McPherson Bamuel o
Merrick, Romaine Q.

Myrick Kivis W

Souther Frank L
Strickland, Own
Wright, Howard

Reinstated as regulative Inspectors, Bureau of Industrial Alcohol, February-April 1924.
Senior investigator
Investigator in charge

H

The CHAIRMAN. The committee will adjourn until Monday.
(The hour of 12:45 p. m. having arrived, the subcommittee announced that the hearings were closed, and adjourned until next

Investigator

William

Griffin George

Larkin Edmund
Phillips Joseph
William BJ

June

8kgags, ryman

Monday.)

Jan.

M

Statton, Edward M

Anderson Charles B

Feb.
Jan.

Baker,

Austin, N

Bruner Wilbur K

May

Coheen Burten

Barrenbrugge James H
Clark Frank

Ness, Ellot

Investigator.

o

Jan

Nebelsick, Albert
Skallerup, Harry W
Stine Glenn

Thomas Joe J.I.

Investigator in charge

Illiam

Lester

McCullum, John, Jr
Miller. Walter
Mills Benj.

Arthur

Jan.

Dec

Butterfield, Arthur

McCoole. John

William

Mar.
Jan.

Norval

Nov

Feb.

May
Mar

Wire technician

Dave F

MAY

Kominakis, James.

technician

Investigator

Louis

Dec

do

Investigator

Samuel

Feb

Ford Robert W
Illiam B

Investigator
Assistant supervisor
Investigator in charge

Terrick Raiph

Feb

from com-

do

Morrill, John W
White James

Dec

Campbell Francis
Dowd

Seully, Arthur o.

Huff, William
Mitchel John J
Taylor, Frederic M.
Duncan Harver I

Flaberty Hugh E

bational appointment

petitive
examination

examination

Anglim Frank E

Apr

Assistant supervisor (Enf.)
Investigator in charge

Apr

Investigator

Dec

Feb

Berard, Uirio

Sept.

Robuck, Ralph

Apr.

1 Reinstated as regulative Inspectors, Bureau of Industrial Algobol, February-April 1924.

49

x

6
STATEMENT OF SECRETARY OF THE TREASURY MORGENTHAU TO THE COMMITTEE

ON APPROPRIATIONS OF THE SENATE, MARCH 2, 1935.

On February 11, 1935, the President submitted to the Senate a
request that an additional sum of $1,763,827 be added to the Treasury

estimates for appropriation for next year, and that this sum be made
immediately available for payment for personal services after November 30,
1934, as follows:
Bureau of Customs
Internal Revenue
Narcotic Bureau

Secret Service

$ 3,000

1,739,827
11,000
10,000

The purpose of this request was to enable the Treasury to pay the
salaries of approximately 1,300 employees of the several bureaus specified
from December 1, 1934 to June 30, 1935, no funds being now available

for this purpose because of the following proviso which was incorporated
in the Emergency Appropriation Act of June 19, 1934:
"Provided, That after December 1, 1934, no part of the
appropriation made herein or heretofore made for the fiscal
year 1935 shall be used to pay the salary of any person
formerly employed as investigator, special agent, senior
warehouseman, deputy prohibition administrator, agent,

assistant attorney, assistant prohibition administrator,
senior investigator, deputy production administrator,
storekeeper or gauger, or any other position in the

Prohibition Bureau or Alcoholic Beverage Unit, Department
of Justice, who was separated from the service of such

Bureau or Unit between June 10, 1933, and December 31, 1933,

while in any such position in the Treasury Department,
unless and until such person shall be appointed thereto as
a result of an open, competitive examination to be hereafter
held by the Civil Service Commission."

After obtaining the advice of the Attorney General as to the effect
of the proviso in question, and the decision of the Comptroller General

with respect to the availability of Treasury appropriations for personal
services, it has been determined that beginning December 1, 1934, no
salary payments may be paid from existing appropriations to the several

-2groups of employees covered by this estimate. However, the Attorney

General held in his opinion dated November 30th, 1934, that -

"This proviso does not in express terms direct or require
removal from the service of the employees included within its
scope. Nor does it, in my opinion, do so by implication. The

positions occupied by these employees and the salaries appertaining thereto were created and established under general
statutes theretofore enacted by the Congress.

"The proviso does not purport to abolish these positions.
On the contrary, its language clearly indicates that the
Congress did not intend to abolish them. It provides only
that after December 1, 1934, no part of the appropriation made
under the Act or theretofore made for the fiscal year 1935,
shall be used to pay the salary of any employee falling within its provisions unless and until such employee shall have
been appointed to the position occupied by him as a result of
an open competitive examination thereafter to be held by the
Civil Service Commission.

"In view of the foregoing, and since it appears that the
employees involved had been appointed to their positions in
the Treasury Department pursuant to statutory authority at the
time of the enactment of the proviso, it is clear that the
proviso does not change or affect their status as employees

in the Treasury Department, except with respect to the payment of

their salaries.

"Since this is so, it is my opinion that the proviso does

not require the Secretary of the Treasury to remove these
employees from the service, either by outright separation or by

a partial dismissal in the form of a furlough. For the same
reason, and as a necessary corollary, it is my further opinion
that they may be continued in the service in a duty status without

pay."

There were two outstanding reasons why it seemed to us urgently

necessary to retain the services of the employees in question:
(1) There were thousands of cases in the various stages of
investigation by these employees, and to dispense with the services of
so large a group would have meant an incalculable loss of revenue as well

as the practical abandonment of criminal prosecutions then in process.

-3 The advantage of the headway already gained would have been lost and

it would have been necessary to start all over with a new and relatively
untrained force, facing the handicap of uncompleted and therefore

unsuccessful previous attempts in the difficult task of eradicating

traffic in illicit and non-tax-paid alcoholic beverages;
(2) Although, as I understand it, the Civil Service Commission
announced new examinations for positions in the Alcohol Tax Unit

promptly after the enactment of the Emergency Appropriation Act, it was
not until November that the rating of examination papers was completed

so that eligibles could be certified to the Department for appointment.
In other words, the Department would have had a period of less than one
month to make new appointments to replace the old men and to train the

new men in the performance of their duties. The work of investigators

in the Alcohol Tax Unit is complicated and difficult. It requires
months of experience before green men can begin to do their work with

reasonable effectiveness. To have dropped those of the old force who
failed to qualify on the new examination would have put us under the

necessity of attempting to enforce the liquor laws with a green and
inexperienced force and would unquestionably have resulted in a collapse
of the enforcement effort which the Department was making, at a most

critical time. This in turn would have resulted in an increase of
illicit operations in every part of the country and would have created
a condition from which it would have taken many months to recovere

-There is also a third reason, which is in my opinion of very

great importance, and that is the question of integrity of the Civil
Service system as it applies to Federal employees. The group of

employees affected by this proviso were recruited through regular civil
Service channels and had, with scarcely an exception, acquired Civil
Service status through open competitive examination, plus a very searching character investigation made by the Civil Service Commission which

resulted in the elimination of a majority of the candidates who had

successfully passed the written test. This is the first time since the
enactment of the Civil Service law more than fifty years ago that the
Congress has undertaken to encroach upon the jurisdiction of the Civil
Service Commission in the administration of that law, or to undertake

by statutory enactment to destroy the Civil Service status and right to
employment of a group which had successfully met and complied with the

law and the regulations of the Civil Service Commission with respect

to eligibility for a particular type of employment. I can think of
nothing more likely to demoralize and discourage the rank and file of

Civil Service employees generally than for them to realize that the
eligibility for employment of any group of employees may be destroyed

by congressional action at any time.

7

March 4th

H. M. Jr. phoned the President 9:30, told him
that Sterling went down to 4.74 and Francs were up to 6.67g.
He told the President that we have $18,000,000 worth of gold

in London end it was H.M.Jr's. thought to begin to offer
Francs in Paris and ship gold across to pay for it, with this
in mind, that if the next two or three weeks gold began to

rush out of this country all the writers in the financial

papers would say that people were scared and have begun to

ship gold across. The President agreed.
Financial attache of the French Embassy by
the name of Jean Appert came in to see Mr. Coolidge. He
wanted to know what we are going to do about the fall of
the pound and H. M. Jr. told Coolidge to tell him to make
an appointment through State Department to discuss this
matter with us.

8

March 5th

Governor Murphy of Detroit came in to see me

and told me that he had spent all of Sunday with Father
Coughlin and the only person he has any confidence in in
Washington is myself. He thought I ought to, in some
way, keep in touch with Father Coughlin.
Murphy said that it is entirely due to me
that last Monday night Father Coughlin same out in favor
of Roosevelt.

9
March 5th

H.M.Jr. called in Chief Moran and told him not
to do anything about making an investigation on the private

life of Huey Long. He told him to forget it.
shat

Seeles

the bank
to

that Mr.

Taoles

the

the

Bank

or

saleshowed
is attached
.

actioned

the President.

Be

on the Stabiliza-

very important very memoraging, The

the Federal in New York that on

Million dollare worth or Frazos and
Prides they spent 15 Million dollars in

Sharling The
talk their
let the.
otherwanting
told thetoPresident
to

they

deolde

this 1a

dating

President

the

day

Sterling Prance stayed Frines
at

Interesting

they

and

the

said

above

YES

are

going

to

will sell

with gala. anowed Basil Marley who to on
summitted the New Zara 0143 Federal Power project. The
selted M to make & dedision on the contract
and an 206, Margenthau atd not attend the

That seeting at the Motte Basse he wanted to have the report
W. Venley time

10

March 5th 1935
H.M.Jr. called in Coolidge this morning and
discussed with him the statement made by Eccles on the hill
in regard to authority over open market operations. On the
hill Mr. Eccles declared that the best way to handle these
operations is to place the responsibility in the Federal
Reserve Board as a whole and to provide for a committee of
five Governors of Reserve Banks to advise with the Board in
this matter. About a week ago Mr. Eccles agreed with H. M. Jr.
and others, (and this agreement was presented to the White House)
that three members of the Federal Reserve Board and two Governors
of Reserve Banks would control the open market operations.
Therefore,
M. Jr. was quite upset at the fact that Mr. Eccles
had broken H.
faith.
H.M.Jr. telephoned Mr. Crane and asked for a
copy of the conversation which he had with Mr. Cariguel of the
Bank of France yesterday. It is attached herewith. Conversation
which Governor Harrison had with Mr. Fraser of the Bank of

International Settlements is also attached herewith.

Mr. Cariguel of the Bank of France telephoned

Mr. Crane to-day and copy of their conversation is attached
herewith.

At 9:15 H. M. Jr. phoned the President. He
told the President that we had some information on the Stabilization Fund which is very important and very encouraging. The
Bank of France told the Federal Reserve in New York that on
Thursday they sold ten million dollars worth of Francs and
bought Sterling and Friday they spent 15 million dollars in
supporting Sterling. This talk about their wanting to let the
thing go is the bunk. The other thing H.M.Jr. told the President
was that the Scandinavian countries had a meeting to decide
whether they want to free themselves from Sterling. This is
very interesting. H.M.Jr. told the President that during the day
yesterday Sterling went from 4.73 to 4.77 and Francs stayed at
6.68. To-day they are just the same. He said we are going to
continue and if Francs should go above 6.68 we will sell Francs
and cover with gold. H.M.Jr. phoned Basil Manley who is on
the committee of the New York City Federal Power project. The
President asked Mr. Morgenthau to make a decision on the contract
pending and inasmuch as Mr. Morgenthau did not attend the
original meeting at the White House he wanted to have the report

which Mr. Manley had.

10A

H.M.Jr:
C:

H.M.Jr:

Crane, am I getting a copy of that telephone
conversation of yesterday?
Well we had two or three. Which one -Well
I'm talking about the one with the Bank
of France.

C:

The Bank of France?

H.M.Jr:

Yes.

C:

Yes, alright. The Governor tried to get you
late yesterday afternoon.

H.M.Jr:

I talked to him.

C:

Oh did you?

H.M.Jr:

Late - yes.

C:

Alright, we'll do that and he also had a talk

with Fraser.
H.M.Jr:
C:

H.M.Jr:
C:

H.M.Jr:

Yes, he told me about that.
Yes and I talked also with the Bank of England.

I didn't get a great deal but-Well you talked on this -Yes this silver - Mexican silver.

Yes. Who approached who on the Bank of France
thing?

C:

Oh I called Cariguel.

H.M.Jr:

on I see.

C:

Just to tell him I hadn't talked with him in

some while and to find out what was on his mind,
that's
all.

H.M.Jr:

I see.

C:

He was pretty blue.

H.M.Jr:

He was.

C:

Yes.

10B

-2H.M.Jr:

Well that was - I consider it very important
news. I mean the fact that the British are
in there.

C:

Oh yes. Well I thought you ought to know
about that because apparently they were in
very heavily both Thursday and Friday and
there is so much irresponsible talk around

C:

I thought you ought to get that.
Yes, well I was very - and if you talk with
Cariguel - if you have that I'd appreciate
a copy of that.
Yes alright I'11 do that.

H.M.Jr:

Thank you.

C:

Alright sir.

H.M.Jr:

Thank you.

H.M.Jr:

March 5, 1935.
Tuesday.

Federal Reserve Bank
of New York
OFFICE CORRESPONDENCE

To CONFIDENTIAL FILES
From

J. E. Crane

Date March 4, 1935.
Subject: Telephone Conversation with

Mr. Cariguel of the Bank of France.

I telephoned to Mr. Cariguel at the Bank of
France this morning to inquire about the attitude of
the Paris market in view of the sharp decline in

sterling. Mr. Cariguel said that the feeling in Paris

was very bad and he appeared to be blue and discouraged.

I asked him whether he had seen any intervention by the
British Equalization Fund and he told me in strict confidence that he had bought for them on Friday last
63,500,000 in an effort to arrest the fall of sterling.
He added that those were the only operations he knew
about but that he considered the British had made quite
a stand to stem the tide. He did not know how much
ammunition they had left, he said, but apparently they
had decided after Friday's experience to let the rate
fall further on Saturday and this morning.
I explained to him that we might make moderate
sales of francs in the next few days against some gold
which we had in London and he remarked that such action
on our part was all to the good. He said that he thought
we were to be complimented in making these sales of
francs below gold export point. Mr. Cariguel inquired
whether I thought we would give up gold freely for export in case the franc should reach gold export point
and I told him that I had every reason to believe that
gold exports would be freely permitted and regarded
with
favor here.

JEC:KMC

11

Federal Reserve Bank
of New York
OFFICE CORRESPONDENCE

To CONFIDENTIAL FILES
From

J. E. Crane

12

Date March 4, 1935.
Subject: Telephone Conversation with

Mr. Fraser of the Bank for International Settlements.

Governor Harrison telephoned to Mr. Fraser at the

Bank for International Settlements this morning to inquire
about the effect on the Continent of the recent drop in
sterling. Mr. Fraser said that part of the sterling area
(the Scandinavian countries) were getting nervous and
wondering whether they should continue to hold on to the
pound. These countries, he said, had held a conference
over the weekend to discuss the matter as they did not
like being tied to a currency which was fluctuating as
much as sterling. They had decided, Mr. Fraser said, to
stand pat for the present but it was clear that they were
uneasy and that some of the Scandinavian banks were con-

verting their sterling into gold. The reaction of the
gold bloc to the sharp decline in sterling, Mr. Fraser
said, was rather curious. The feeling seemed to be, he
stated, that if sterling continued to decline it would
bring exchange matters to a head and lead to negotiations
and ultimately stabilization. Mr. Fraser added that the
gold bloc did not appear to be as unhappy as one might
expect and that it was generally believed that Belgium
could not last much longer.

With respect to the British, Mr. Fraser said,
that they had been making efforts to stop the decline of

the pound and that he had been reliably informed that the
British Equalization Fund had bought 62,000,000 on Thurs-

day last to support the rate. The reasons for the decline
in sterling, he said, were numerous, the principal ones
being Chamberlain's statement in Parliament last week
which was generally interpreted as meaning that the
British Government was in favor of a lower pound, also
talk of a labor government in England, recent failures
in the London commodity markets and also the fact that
the sterling area as a whole had an adverse trade balance
and was therefore constantly a seller of sterling.
In conclusion Mr. Fraser said that he was
surprised there was not more nervousness in Europe over

the fall of the pound than there appeared to be. He said
that he had heard a rumor to the effect that South Africa
was withholding its gold and not shipping it to London.

JEC:KMC

Federal Reserve Bank
of New York

13

OFFICE CORRESPONDENCE

Date March 5, 1935.

To CONFIDENTIAL FILES

Subject: Telephone Conversation with

From

J. E. Crane

Mr. Cariguel of the Bank of France

Mr. Cariguel of the Bank of France called me on
the telephone this morning to report that the exchange
market in Paris was much quieter today and sterling

fairly steady. He indicated that he was afraid sterling
might go lower and said that further depreciation of the
pound should be averted at all costs as it would add to
the existing confusion, provoke further discouragement
and probably result in the French public giving up the
struggle to maintain the franc. Mr. Cariguel said that
he thought the majority of business men in France were
willing to make the sacrifices necessary to adjust to
something like the present level of sterling but that
if the pound depreciated further they would probably
regard adjustment as hopeless and be unwilling to make

further sacrifices to that end.

For the first time during my telephone conversations with him, Mr. Cariguel clearly implied that
devaluation of the franc might be necessary to adjust

their position vis-a-vis sterling. Heretofore he has

always maintained that devaluation in France was unnecessary and unwanted by a majority of the people,
but today he certainly envisaged some such action in
France in case the pound was further depreciated.

Mr. Cariguel said that if the British wanted
them to help in maintaining the pound at its present
level, the French would be glad to do so but he added
that the British did not appear to want any such help
and while the Bank of England probably was not in favor
of lower sterling, nevertheless it appeared that the

British Government would rather like the pound to go
lower.

Mr. Cariguel said that conditions in Belgium
were somewhat better and that the belga had lately re-

quired very little support. On the other hand, he said
that the lira continued to be under pressure.

JEC:KMC

10A

H.M.Jr:
Peoples:
H.M.Jr:
P:

You're going to take that letter up on the
hill to-day?
That's what he wanted me to do sir.
Well those were my instructions.
Yes sir.

P:

The point is this - there was some mixup in
my mail room and I never saw the letter.
I see .

H.M.Jr:

And it never came down to my office and, as

H.M.Jr:

I understand it, the fight is on to-day and
if they have a copy of your letter - those
two letters - it's Senator Robinson and if
he should start attacking the Procurement
Division well he's got the answer, you see?

P:

I see.

H.M.Jr:

See ?

P:

Yes sir.

H.M.Jr:

So I think its very important to get up there

P:

Mr. Secretary the - I planned on being in
Senator Robinson's office about a quarter to ten.

H.M.Jr:

Yes.

P:

H.M.Jr:
P:

Tuesday

H.M.Jr:

P:

this morning to see Joe Robinson.

Now it may be a little early for him.
I think that's about right.
The only point is this - I am still on the stand
in my hearings on the Naval bill. That's two
solid days running now and I'll have all of to-day
too from 10 o'clock this morning until - well it
will be 5 o'clock or later this afternoon.
Well if he's not there I'd leave it with his
Secretary or have somebody with you who could
wait for him.
That's what I wanted to do Mr. Secretary and I

wanted to make it plain that these - well the
letters are self-explanatory.

13B

-2-

H.M.Jr:

Yes but I have somebody with you to make sure

P:

Sure to be. I will sir.

to get it into the Senator's hands.

And after he's seen you, if he has any comment,
I wish you'd let me know.

H.M.Jr:

I will.

P:

H.M.Jr:

Thank you.

P:

Yes indeed Mr. Secretary.

H.M.Jr:

Thank you.

P:

Thank you sir.

Wall

March 5, 1935.
Tuesday.

13C

H.M.Jr:
Marvin Jones:
H.M.Jr:
J:

Hello

Hello Henry

Hello Marvin, how are you?

Alright, how are you? I'm looking for more
money.

H.M.Jr:
J:

Oh you son of a gun. What are you up to now?

I was talking to the Chief yesterday about
some provision for making small bonds and he
talked like he was going to talk to you about
the best way to get the money

J:

I don't hear you very well
He said he was going to talk to you yesterday -Well he told me this - he said that he had an
interesting talk with you and you and I ought
to get together.
Well --

H.M.Jr:

But he didn't tell me to spend any money.

H.M.Jr:
J:

H.M.Jr:

J:

(Hearty laughter) You know its up to us - you and
me to get together with all that money down there
around you, we'll have to spend some of it. Well
when would it be convenient for me to drop around
and see you?

H.M.Jr:
J:

H.M.Jr:
J:

How about 10 o'clock tomorrow morning?

Henry I've got hearings tomorrow morning.
Well how about 10 o'clock Thursday?

Well I've got hearings every day this week
until Friday. Anytime in the afternoon or
before 10 o'clock.

H.M.Jr:

Well

J:

I can make it 9 o'clock any morning or I could
make it anytime in the afternoon.

H.M.Jr:

Well make it - how about 9:15 tomorrow morning?

-29:15?

H.M.Jr:

Tomorrow morning.

J:

Alright.

H.M.Jr:

What?

J:

Alright.

H.M.Jr:

9:15.

J:

9:15 at your office.

H.M.Jr:

O.K.

J:

I'll be there.
Listen.

H.M.Jr:
J:

Yes.

How about coming by and having breakfast with

me somewhere down there.
H.M.Jr:

Well I'll tell you what I do. I have breafast

J;

That's pretty early for m e.

H.M.Jr:

With my daughter and ---

J:

I'll see you at 9:15 then Henry.

H.M.Jr:

Thank you.

J:

Alright.

at 7:30 at home.

March 5, 1935.

Tuesday.

13D

13 E

H.M.Jr:

Senator Byrd:

Hello - hello Harry.
How are you?

H.M.Jr:

Alright, how are you?

B:

Fine.

H.M.Jr:
B:

H.M.Jr:
B:

H.M.Jr:
B:

I read in the paper that you say you can't get

anything out of the Treasury.

Well I said I called up there and tried to get
this information and couldn't get it.
Well you didn't call the right fellow.
Wait a minute - who did I Hello - hello
He said that the information wasn't available
there and I called up over to the PWA and they
didn't seem to have it and the records of the
Treasury didn't show these commitments, etc.

H.M.Jr:
B:

H.M.Jr:

Well that's right but if you had called either
Danny Bell or me we'd have told you.

I think that ought all to be made public anyway.
Well - Dan Bell is here with me now - we don't
have that but if that's what you want - I mean
PWA does have it.

B:

H.M.Jr:
B:

H.M.Jr:

B:

Well somebody ought to have it.

But I'm kind of jealous of our reputation,
especially in the hands of our friends.
Well I didn't mean to reflect any on you because
probably you haven't got it but I thought you
could get it. I've got a letter here from you
Department but I can't put my hands on it for the
moment, telling me what information they've got
which is entirely inadequate.
Well Bell says, he's sitting right here, he says
we don't have what you want. I mean I just want
to - my attitude is
The newspaper misquoted me --

13F

-2H.M.F:

Hello - my attitude is that anybody on the hill
that wants any information that we've got its
always available.

B:

H.M.Jr:
B:

H.M.Jr:
B:

H.M.Jr:

I know that - its no reflection on you but it was
just the difficulty of getting the information.
I feel that you should have it.
Alright Harry.
Don't you?
Thank you.

I say don't you think Henry --I feel anything that we do down at this end in

the way of spending money should be an open book.

Hello.
B:

H.M.Jr:
B:

H.M.Jr:

I say I didn't read the newspaper's statement.
I feel that any spending that the Executive end

does should be an open book.

Well I'll correct that fact about the Treasury
not furnishing me with the Information. They
furnished me all that they had, but I put in the
record to-day what they furnished me but they
didn't because they couldn't get it.
Well our attitude is anything that we've got here,
with the exception of the Stabilization Fund, is
an open book.

B:

H.M.Jr:

March 5, 1935.
Tuesday.

Well I'll state that on the floor to-day Henry.
Alright, thank you. Goodby.

14
March 6th

Mr. Crane telephoned Mr. Morgenthau this morning

and the following is their exact conversation:
C:

H.M.Jr:
C:

H.M.Jr:
C:

Good morning Mr. Secretary.
Hello Crane.

I just talked with Cariguel.
Oh you just talked to him.
About five minutes ago.

H.M.Jr:

Oh yes.

C:

He said that the Sterling situation looked bad.

H.M.Jr:

Yes.

C:

Sterling was weak, he thought it was going lower
and that there was trouble ahead. He said that

some of the countries in the Sterling area -

H.M.Jr:
C:

H.M.Jr:
C:

What's that?

He said some of the countries in the Sterling
area were getting restless about the the decline
in the pound and were considering breaking off
from Sterling.
Yes.

He referred particularly to the Scandinavian
countries and to South Africa. That he said he told me this he said in the strictest confidence and he said not to mention it to anybody.

H.M.Jr:

Yes.

C:

So I'll have to ask you to protect me on this.

H.M.Jr:

Yes.

C:

He said that the Bank of France - the Governor

of the Bank of France - is considering offering
a credit to the British; that they were considering doing it through diplomatic channels,
that is, to have the French Treasury approach

15

the British Treasury and ask them whether they'd

like to have a credit to support Sterling. The
amount they had in mind was five billion Francs that's 330 million dollars. He said that before

the Bank of France did anything about it, they'd
have to get the approval of their Government.
H.M.Jr:

Yes.

C:

And that they were talking with the Prime
Minister about it now; that he thought the

British would refuse the credit but that if
they did it would put the responsibility right
on them. He said he thought that if anything
like that were done, it should be done as an
American-Franco movement. In other words,
that the United States and France should do
it together. He said "Do you think you'd be

interested in it" and I said "I don't know - I
couldn't answer that". I said "All I can tell

you is that I think you'd get a sympathetic
hearing over here on any question which would
tend to stabilize exchanges and prevent a further
drop in the pound" but I said I really couldn't
say what the attitude would be". That's about
what I told him on that.
H.M.Jr:

I see.

C:

I gather that's about the way you feel.

H.M.Jr:

Yes. I want to think this over.

C:

Yes. Well I didn't make any commitment at

H.M.Jr:

attitude would be and that I couldn't speak for
the bank or the Treasury, but that I could say
that we were interested and would give sympathetic
hearing to anything which would tend to stop the
decline in Sterling and bring about stable
exchanges. Now that's about the - let me see
That's about it - hello.

C:

That's - oh he did say this. He said that if

all. I said I really didn't know what the

they offered the credit, and they haven't even
decided that they'11 do it yet, that they would
want some understanding with the British that
they were going to hold the pound somewhere
around the present level. He said they probably
wouldn't make that a hard and fast condition, but
that they'd want at least some informal understanding with the British that they weren't going
to let the pound go on down.

16
H.M.Jr:

I see.

C:

Now that's about the gist of it.

H.M.Jr:

Well I think I got it.

I'll --

C:

H.M.Jr:

Have you told Governor Harrison about it?

C:

No I haven't. He's in a meeting and I was
just going in the meeting as a matter of fact
when you called. I'd like to talk it over with
him and then perhaps talk to you a little later
about it.

H.M.Jr:

Yes.

C:

H.M.Jr:
C:

Because this is just right hot off the wires
and I really haven't had time to consider it.
Alright. Thank you very much. I'll call you
back between now and 12 o'clock.

Yes, alright.

After talking to Crane, Mr. Morgenthau called
in Coolidge, Oliphant and Lochhead and gave them the gist of
Crane's conversation. He then went over to see the President
at 11 o'clock. At a quarter to twelve H. M. Jr. returned and
called in Coolidge, Oliphant and Lochhead and told them that
the President and he felt that we have no authority and believe
that it will be unwise to participate in a loan to Great Britain,
and read to them the statement which he and the President
prepared to answer the French. It is as follows:
"We view the objective with sympathy but we
doubt Treasury authority formally to participate. But
if with the ultimate objective of keeping sterling above
4.86 we would do nothing to bloc Franco-British arrangement. We would give sympathetic support to this objective
whenever possible".

H. M. Jr. telephoned Mr. Crane and read the

message to him. The following is their exact conversation:
H.M.Jr:
Crane, very confidentially, I've had a half
an hour with the President.
C:

I see.

17
H.M.Jr:

Have you got a pencil?

C:

Yes.

H.M.Jr:

This
is the message that you can give Cariguel,
see?

C:

Yes.

H.M.Jr:

"We view the objective with sympathy but we doubt

the Treasury authority formally to participate.
H.M.Jr:

Paragraph.

H.M.Jr:

"But if with the ultimate objective of keeping

Sterling above 4.86 we would do nothing to bloc
the Franco-British arrangement.
H.M.Jr:

Paragraph.

H.M.Jr:

"We would give sympathetic support to this
objective whenever possible".

C:

Yes.

H.M.Jr:

Well that's the whole story and now I'm glad to

C:

discuss it if ---

The first question that comes to my mind is
whether you would want to transmit that to the
French before they make up their mind to do
anything. Cariguel said that they were merely
considering it and that his Governor was discussing it or going to discuss it with the Prime
Minister before they decided to do anything.

H.M.Jr:

I see.

C:

He said that if they decided to do anything, he

H.M.Jr:

Oh.

C:

So that as far as the French are concerned its

H.M.Jr:
C:

would let me know.

still in a preliminary stage.
I think you're right.

And it raises a question as to whether we would
want to show our hand now or to wait until they
approach us more formally and definitely.

18
H.M.Jr:

Well now just a minute. I've got my group here
and I'll just ask them. I think - will you
hold - just wait a second will you?

C:

Right.

H.M.Jr:

Hello.

C:

Hello

H.M.Jr:

We agree until Cariguel tells you that they're
definitely going to go ahead. Unless they ask
you what our position is there's no use shooting
off our mouth.

C:

Well we all agree to that. The Governor agrees
to that.

H.M.Jr:

Right.

C:

We'll just keep this a closed story until we
hear from Cariguel.

H.M.Jr:

That's right.

C:

Yes.

H.M.Jr:

Now the other thing is since the President has
made a statement I see that things have changed

quite a lot.

C:

H.M.Jr:
C:

Yes we sold 125 million Francs in the last hour.
You sold 125 million Francs. Well that's peanuts

isn't it.

Yes. Well we've got about 270 million Francs
in gold in London so we haven't sold half yet,

but still that's a pretty sizeable amount.

H.M.Jr:
C:

Ch well now maybe I didn't understand - one

hundred and how much?

125 million Francs.

C:

Oh I thought you said 125 thousand.
No 125 million.

H.M.Jr:

Oh 125 million.

H.M.Jr:

19

C:

Yes. That's about 8 billion dollars I should say.

H.M.Jr:

I see.

C:

And we're selling that against the gold you know

H.M.Jr:

Yes that was my idea.

C:

H.M.Jr:
C:

that you have in London.

You've got about 18 million (?) there.
Well now will that have any help? Will that
help Sterling at all?
Well Sterling has gone up a little as a result
of this pressure on the dollar - Sterling has
gone up to 4.76.

H.M.Jr:

Good.

C:

But there isn't a great deal of change there.

H.M.Jr:

Anything happen in silver?

C:

No. I just talked with Cattern of the Bank

of England with reference to the shipment of the
gold in Paris and he brought up the question of
this Mexican Eagle 011 Company in silver and he
said he hasn't any final answer from the others
as to whether they would sell the silver to us,
but I indicated to him that we would probably

be interested in buying it if they wanted to
sell and that we would give them gold here in
New York against it if they wanted it.

H.M.Jr:
C:

H.M.Jr:
C:

Yes.

And he's going to let me know about that.
I see. Well did he make any remark when you
told him that we were sending this gold there?
No. The only question he raised was that the

possibility that the shipping of gold now by
the Bank of England from London to Paris might
be regarded as being for the account of the
British Equalization Fund and might give the
impression that the British had no more
ammunition in Paris and it might therefore weaken
Sterling and I told him that if it would embarrass
him to make the shipment we would try to work out
some other arrangement. I didn't know just what.

20
H.M.Jr:

I don't know either.

C:

And - well he only mentioned that very tentatively
and he said he'd like to think it over and talk to
his people and call me back.

H.M.Jr:

Right.

C:

So that there's nothing to be done on that now.
I think I'll hear from him in a short time and
he'll probably tell me that they'll go ahead
and make the shipment.

H.M.Jr:

I see.

C:

But if I want anything further from you I'll

let you know on that.
H.M.Jr:

Alright.

C:

Goodby.

H.M.Jr:

Hello - wait a minute.

C:

Alright.

H.M.Jr:

Does Governor Harrison want to say anything
about the government bond market?

C:

Just a second. He's here.

Harrison:

Well it got quite a shock Henry.

H.M.Jr:

Yes.

H:

After that statement but Burgess tells me that

H.M.Jr:
H:

it is leveling out a little now.

Leveling out.
And that we haven't done anything by way of

supporting it. I don't think there is anything
to do at the moment except this. I think that

unless the President's message gives that
impression there has been a definite misunder-

standing that he was going to correct the
disparity between gold and prices, not by a

H.M.Jr:

further increase in prices but by a - rather an
increase in the price of gold.
No he didn't have anything like that in mind.

21
H:

I know but that was the way it was interpreted.

H.M.Jr:

Oh.

H:

The interpretation was that he was going to
crush
thing possibly by lowering the price
of
the this
dollar.

H.M.Jr:

Well I don't --

H:

That would cause the flurry both in the exchanges
and in the government bond market.

H.M.Jr:

Well after all the flurry in the government
bond market wasn't very bad.

H:

Well it got your called fourth by --

H.M.Jr:

10/32's.

H:

H.M.Jr:
H:

10/32's and the bends - there are no bends for

a little while there. Its better now.
Its better now.

I think it'11 get over it. Why I think it'11

get over it because they're reading the statement
carefully and they've sort of drawn the conclusion they didn't mean devaluation but, on
second thought, if there's any way of correcting
that impression there in Washington that it was
referring simply to prices and wasn't referring
to devaluation it would be very helpful.
Now
I've talked to some of the dealers --H.M.Jr:

Well did they carry it that way on the ticker?
I have the ticker here.

H:

Yes.

H.M.Jr:

It says here President Roosevelt to-day expressed

H:

belief that the purchasing power of the dollar
should be lifted further to ease the burden of
debt. The President expressed belief that while
the so forth and so on. Asked whether the fact
that the dollar was not yet readjusted meant
further devaluation the President laughed, held
up his hand and shook his head in the negative.
Yes. Well they didn't get here the shook his
head in the negative.

22
H.M.Jr:

Well this is U.P.

H:

Yes.

H.M.Jr:

Its on the U.P. ticker.

H:

Dow Jones said he just said hold on.

H.M.Jr:

Well this is the - what?

H:

And finally he said "Hold on - don't ask me
any more questions". That Dow Jones fellow
was sitting somewhere where he couldn't see
him shake his head, I think.

H.M.Jr:

I see. Well I think if we asked the President
to correct it, it would be too much - too much

importance.
H:

H.M.Jr:

What's that?

Its too much important. I mean I don't know

whether he's ever before made a corrected
statement.

H:

Well he's going to get some editorials and

blasts on this. I'm pretty sure.

H.M.Jr:

Yes.

H:

You might be able to say something Henry
sometime that you didn't understand that he
meant that.

H.M.Jr:

Yes. That's in that statement that you meant
he was going to devalue the dollar further.

H:

Yes.

H.M.Jr:

Well I'11 see if I can do anything about it.
Alright.

H:

H.M.Jr:

Thank you.

let

23

He then called the President and gave him

Crane's suggestion. The President agreed. He also told
the President that he had talked to Harrison and that it is
Harrison's belief that the bond market is off due to the
statement which he made at the Press to-day which is as
follows:

"President Roosevelt to-day expressed

belief that the purchasing power of the dollar should be
lifted further to ease the burden of debts. The President
expressed belief that while the debt burden had been relieved
enormously, it had not yet been reduced to a sufficient level.
In other words, he explained, the debt column of the national
balance sheet is still much too high. Asked whether the fact
that the dollar was not yet readjusted to debts meant further
devaluation, the President laughed, held up his hands and
shook his head in the negative. His observations on the
monetary situation came when he was asked as to whether
commodity prices had been stabilized".
Wall Street interpreted the President's
remarks to indicate that he was thinking of further devaluation. H.M.Jr. suggested that the President have Steve
Early correct this interpretation. The following statement
was given out at the White House 10 minutes after Mr. Morgenthau made the suggestion.

"President Roosevelt feels there should be
further adjustment between the dollar and the Nation's debt
structure, but suggestions that he contemplates further
devaluation are absolutely unfounded, the White House said
this noon. A White House attache declared that any inferences
that he contemplated further devaluation were absolutely untrue.
Any reports that such a step was planned or indicated were
made out of whole cloth, it was asserted. The White House
position was made clear as a result of apparent misinterpretation
in some quarters of the President's observation that he felt
the dollar and the debt burden were not yet fully adjusted.
The White House attache said nothing that Mr. Roosevelt said
could be construed as containing the slightest suggestion of

any intention to further devalue the dollar.
H. M. Jr. called in Coolidge at a quarter to
one and said that he wanted to buy ten million dollars of
bonds for Postal Savings to help bring the market up. He
told him to buy at the present market and, he said, "if that
will put the market up then let it go".
When H.M.Jr. spoke to the President this

morning he said: "Pending hearing from the other side as to
what they are going to do the only thing we can do is to go
after silver just as hard as we can and cover immediately

24

with Sterling. I think if we can hold our line in commodities
one of these countries is going to crack within the week - it

may be France, England or some Scandinavian country".

H.M.Jr. dictated the following paragraph to
Mr. McConline said to me that if he could get a job
from me that he could rent the house to me cheaper so I told him
that he could not get any job in the Treasury after making a
remark like that and I don't want him to see Mrs. Klotz. He said
will you forget that I made such a remark and I said that having
passed such a remark you can't have a job in the Treasury.
Bob:

PARAPHRASE OF TELEGRAM RECEIVED

FROM: American Embassy, Paris, France

DATE: March 7, 1935, 4 p.m.
NO:

182

FROM COCHRAN

ULTRA CONFIDENTIAL.

Re my telegram No. 181 of March 6, 4 p.m., the first
paragraph.
I was called to the Bank of France this forenoon by
Lacour-Gayet. I was told that he had a suggestion which
the Bank of France desired that I submit to Washington,
and Lacour-Gayet explained that he was speaking to me in
behalf of the Bank of France with the authority of the
Governor. The matter he said appears to be one for official transmission to the Embassy through the Foreign
Office, but he said he felt confident that the suggestion
of the Bank of France which he was advancing would be
approved of by the French Government. The Bank of France

thought, on the other hand, that it was best not to transmit it to the Federal Reserve Bank of New York because it
was too much a matter of governmental scope. As a result
this informal method of communicating the suggestion was
chosen.
The disastrous results that may follow the decline
of sterling
were
emphasized by Lacour-Gayet. Two major
results
were
mentioned:

First. Continuation of monetary instability may
possibly result in further diminution of world trade.
Second. Gold prices will be further devalued, with
world wide deflationary effects as a result.
It is Lacour-Gayet's opinion, nevertheless, that the
present is no time for holding a general conference on
stabilization; it is his opinion that the matter is too
urgent to await the deliberations of any general conference,

which might have a questionable outcome, in any event.
With regard to the question of France and/or the United

States approaching England directly with the sole view of
ascertaining the attitude of the British toward stabilization, he feels the usual reply would be given by the British
- i.e., they would emphasize the fact that until the outcome
of the American situation is clearly seen, it would be inadvisable for Great Britain to take any definite step.

My friend said he thinks the United States and France
have a special responsibility in cooperating toward preventing the disorders which the decline of sterling must

25

2-

26

inevitably bring about. These are the only two countries,
he said, in a position to take the initiative in such
action, since France is the leader of the gold bloc and
the United States holds such immense gold resources. The
common democratic ideals of France and the United States
were mentioned by Lacour-Gayet, and he pictured the

European situation as being so unsettled that a further

monetary upset might have repercussions which our two

countries would not find to their liking.

The suggestion of the Bank of France is as follows:
A credit of very large proportions should be offered to
Great Britain jointly by the American and French Government; this would be a joint central bank credit. The
American and French Governments would not make the offer
of this credit contingent on a promise of definite
stabilization by Great Britain as a means of defending
the pound's international exchange value. Should the
British accept the proposition, Lacour-Gayet thinks that
flight from sterling or sterling securities would be stoped and there would be no further decline of the pound.
Should the offer be refused by the British, then the
responsibility is definitely placed on them for contributing
to the continuing uncertainty of the international currency
situation and the consequences it may have. Should the
answer be that their monetary reserves are sufficient to
obviate any need of such a help, then it seems the British
would thereafter feel obliged to use effectively such
reserves in view of preventing the pound's further decline.
Lacour-Gayet thinks it probable that sterling will con-

tinue to depreciate in the absence of such a credit. It is

his opinion that the decline may be progressive, as during
the recent months, even if Great Britain brings about
temporary halts. Counter steps have been taken by the
countries of the gold bloc in their individual economic
systems, and they are strongly decided to do the utmost in
defense of their present currency values. Lacour-Gayet
predicts that if the countries of the gold bloc are drawn
off the gold standard there will be an international race
in currency depreciation. This he said would not only be
contrary to the interests of the United States, but of the
whole world.

It is the wish of the Bank of France that this suggestion be regarded as ultra-confidential, but the Bank
would genuinely appreciate an early indication of the
American reaction thereto. The Bank is not submitting the
suggestion through the French Embassy at Washington nor

through the Financial Attache stationed in New York City.
Should there be favorable action upon it, the French
opinion is that the best results could be achieved if the
two Governments made the announcement in a spectacular
fashion.

27

-3 I informed Lacour-Gayet that I had no idea as to the
reception that the above suggestion would receive, but I
reminded him that the United States had undoubtedly received cabled reports of the press stories of two days
ago, to the effect that on February 3 Flandin had made a
definite proposal for stabilization at London and that the
British had refused it. Lacour-Gayet then told me that
Governor Tannery had stated yesterday that Flandin denied
to him the making of any stabilization proposition when
he was in London. I was reminded by Lacour-Gayet of the
consistent tone of the statements of the Premier on this
subject, including that made on his latest appearance two
days ago when a vote of confidence was being sought by him.

The above suggestion and discussion is submitted with

the urgent request that there be strict observance of its
confidential character. The latest decline of sterling
considerably upset the money, stock and commodity markets
during the last few days. This confusion is indicative
of what would ensue now should a mad race in currency
depreciation face a nervous and despairing world. I
therefore gladly forward the above asking that it have full
consideration because of its origin.
STRAUS.

EA:LEW

27A
March 11, 1935.
Monday.

H.M.Jr:

Hello - George.

George

Harrison: Yes, Henry.

H.

Jeff's on the phone with me. Now - hello - George
I can't hear you.

H.M.Jr:

Can you hear me?

H.

Yes, now I can.

H.M.Jr:

All right. Jeff's on the phone.

H.

Yes.

H.M.Jr:

You know about that message that came through the
Diplomatic Channel? See -

H.

Yes.

H.M.Jr:

Well Jeff and I were over and saw the President and he
decided that we'd answer it through you to the Bank of
France rather than through diplomatic channels.

H.

Yes.

H.M.Jr:

See.

H.

Yes.

H.M.Jr:

And - we'd like to, if you would, phone them to-morrow.

H.

Yes.

H.M.Jr:

Now, we've changed the message a little bit.

H.

Yes.

H.M.Jr:

Have you got a stenographer - it's very short.
Yes. - I haven't got a stenographer but I can take it

H.M.Jr:

H.

down.

H.M.Jr:

Well, it's very short. "We view the objective with

H.

Yes.

H.M.Jr:

But doubt American authority

H.

Yes.

sympathy -

27B

-2H.M.Jr:

Formally to participate. Period.

H.

Yes.

H.M.Jr:

Assuming that what is presently aimed at

H.

Yes.

H.M.Jr:

Is an exchange relation

H.

Yes.

H.M.Jr:

Among the pound, franc and dollar,

H.

Yes.

H.M.Jr:

At a level

H.

Yes.

H.M.Jr:

Substantially where it has been

H.

Yes.

H.M.Jr:

During the past year,

H.

Yes.

H.M.Jr:

We would do nothing

H.

Yes.

H.M.Jr:

To bloc a Franco-British arrangement

H.

Yes.

H.M.Jr:

And would give sympathetic support

H.

Yes.

H.M.Jr:

To this objective whenever possible."

H.

Yes.

H.M.Jr:

Now I'11 read it again. "We view the objective with
sympathy but doubt American authority formally to
participate. Assuming that what is presently aimed at
is an exchange relation among the pound, franc and
dollar, at a level substantially where it has been
during the past year, we would do nothing to bloo a
Franco-British arrangement, and would give sympathetic
support to this objective whenever possible."

27C

-3H.

Yes,

H.M.Jr:

How does it sound to you?

H.

Well I don't - I think the present effect is - I don't

H.M.Jr:
H.

H.M.Jr:
H.

H.M.Jr:
H.

H.M.Jr:

like to claim that we would do nothing to bloc -Well that's the President's own language.
What?

That's his own language.

Well I know, but you asked me. (Laughter)
Right and I'm explaining too.
What?

I'm explaining - that's his own language.

H.

Well
but I-I think, -I think it's a - I think it's a
little unnecessarily

H.M.Jr:

Well he went over

You're right to tell me, but on the other hand that he went over it twice, you see.
H.

Yes.

H.M.Jr:

And that's what - he dictated that.

H.

Yes,

H.M.Jr:

Now, what I thought was this. --

H.

Well how - I don't quite understand what the set-up is.
What am I to do, just --

H.M.Jr:

Well you can simply tell them if you want to. What's
the use of kidding them that we got this message from
Cochran?

H.

Yes.

H.M.Jr:

To the State Department, and that we feel that this is inasmuch as it comes from the Bank of France, the
Treasury is answering it through our Central Bank.

H.

I see.

H.M.Jr:

See?

2TD

-4I see.

H.

H.M.Jr:

I mean, what's the use of kidding them.

H.

H.M.Jr:

Yes. But I mean this 18 the message from you?
This
is the message from the Treasury to the Bank
of France.

H.

Now --

H.M.Jr:
H.

H.M.Jr:
H.

H.M.Jr:
H.

Which
them know
that we don't want to take it up
throughlets
diplomatic
channels.
Yes.

had that out, which I think is very important.
Yes. Well now still assuming that your question
as to whether I had any suggestions to make. When
you say about American authority formally to participate
I

Yes.

They'11 know that that is not a fact, 80 far as the

Federal Reserve Bank is concerned.
H.M.Jr:

H.

But Jeff Coolidge covered that. You can't do it
either on account of the Johnson Act. Jeff pointed
that out. And that's why - that's why we changed the
wording from the way we had it. Originally it read
Treasury and we changed it to American because Jeff
pointed out that you can't do it either.
Yes.

Coolidge: Now you might be able to George, but there's some

doubt there. I don't think you could loan the English
Government - you might loan the Bank of England.

H.

Well that's all this is.

C.

Well we don't know what it is.

H.

But the - that message says the Bank of England.

H.M.Jr:

But we simply - we don't make a flat statement. We say
we "doubt" American authority.

H.M.Jr:

Hello.

H.

Yes.

27E

-5H.M.Jr:

To formally to participate. See. We don't say a
flat statement but it was Jeff that made that suggestion that he questioned whether you, under the
Johnson Act, could do it.

H.

Yes.

H.M.Jr:

See.

H.

Yes.

H.M.Jr:

I mean, that if we made the flat statement that no

American Agency could do that, but we say we "doubt".

H.

Yes.

H.M.Jr:

Sleep on it and 1f you've got any ideas call me up

H.

All right. Let me do that, will you?

H.M.Jr:
H.

H.M.Jr:
H.

H.M.Jr:

to-morrow.

Will you sleep on it?
Because I'11 tell you, we've got - they're plenty of
good reasons for turning it down on a basis of being
too fishy.
Yes. -- You haven't had a chance to think it over and
it's too late to call them anyway.
Yes.

But the point is I had it out that if we're going into
this thing quite frankly and very confidentially, I
wanted the Treasury to handle this matter and not the
State Department.

H.

Yes.

H.M.Jr:

And as a result of that the President said all right
do it this way - see?

H.

Yes. All right sir. Well, let me think it over and

H.M.Jr:
H.

call you back in the morning. May I?
If you would, please.
All right. Thank you.

21F

March 12, 1935.

Tuesday

Harrison: Good morning, Henry.
H.M.Jr:

Good morning.

H:

Can I talk to you a minute?

H.M.Jr:

Surely.

H:

Henry, I've been thinking over that message and
you were good enough to say that I might comment

on it.

H.M.Jr:

Please.

H:

Now, first of all, I personally feel that the

first sentence is of doubtful accuracy and certainly so far as the Federal Reserve Bank is
concerned, which is the question that was put up
to you. I feel that definitely because the Johnson Act talked about Government and this was
specified to be a credit to a bank. Furthermore,
we have given similar credit to the bank of Belgium in recent months without any question to the
Johnson Amendment and the French know that.

H.M.Jr:
H:

I see.

So I think that they would call - think we were
different generally

H.M.Jr:

I see.

H:

Now, Fraser, who called me yesterday and who knew

about this thing through Tannery says for God's
sake be awfully sure to give reason why you're not
going to participate, because otherwise they are
going to misunderstand it into thinking that you're
going to do something with the dollar. He says
that this thing might be enough to smoke you out

too and therefore if you turn it down, be sure to
give reasons, otherwise they'11 think, well it's just
because America wants to feel free to do something
themselves. I have taken the liberty therefore of
dictating just this slight change.

H.M.Jr:

Right.

H:

To Jeff's Secretary -

21G

-2H.M.Jr: Well, have you given it to Mrs. Klotz?
H:

No, I didn't give it to Mrs. Klotz -- I didn't know
what to do, but I tried to get Jeff and couldn't so
I

H.M.Jr: Well, give it -- How much is it? Give it to me.
H:
Well, I'll read it to you now, it's not much. You
remember the other message?

H.M.Jr: Well, I've it before me.
H:

We view the objective with sympathy -- now here

comes the change -- but would prefer not to parti-

cipate in a joint offer of a credit to the bank of

England which had not been requested by them.
H.M.Jr:
H:

That's your position from the beginning, that they
anyway.
ought to take
-- which has not been requested by them and which
we understand would not likely be accepted by them

and might therefore be both futile and embarrassing.
Then I go on the way the message was. Assuming
that what is presently aimed at is an exchange relation among the pound, franc and the dollar at a

level substantially where it has been in the past
year, we would do nothing to hinder a Franoo-British
arrangement and would give sympathetic support to

this objective whenever possible. I feel a little

stubborn about the word hinder in place of bloc
only because the French are so damn sensitive, and
are looking for trouble anyway. But bloc looks to
be a matter of interfering whereas hinder means that
you won't do anything either by action or any other
way to oppose. And bloc just might hit them the
wrong way. Hinder does the things just as well.
H.M.Jr:

Just & minute.

(To messenger) Get Mrs. Klotz -- I'm in a hurry.
If she's not there, get Bob McHugh. I need one or
the other right away -- I'll have one or the other
take it down

H:

Well, Jeff's Secretary's probably got it by now.

H.M.Jr: Who?
H:

Jeff's secretary's probably got it written out by

now.

H.M.Jr:

Oh, you gave it to Jeff's secretary.

H:

Yes.

-3H.M.Jr:

Oh, I didn't understand that.

H;

Yes.

H.M.Jr:

Well, then just give it to me. Do you think she
has it.
Yes, I know she's got it.

H:

H.M.Jr:
H:

How long ago did you give it to her?
Oh, about within, oh about five or ten minutes
ago.

H.M.Jr:

Well, then let me send for her. Just a second.
Just a minute.

Ensa

Wells

210

March 12, 1935.

Tuesday.
George

Harrison:

Henry?

H.M.Jr:

Yes.

H:

Fraser called me this morning.

H.M.Jr:

Oh, did he?

H:

-- To tell me that he had heard that the French
were very disappointed with the message they got.

H.M.Jr:

Yes.

H:

-- That they had hoped that it would be favorable.

H.M.Jr:

I see.

H:

-- And indicated that he thought we would probably
get another message from them. Possibly asking
whether we would object to some sort of a joint

inquiry of the British.

H.M.Jr:

I see.

H:

-- As to the possibility of some kind of cooper-

H.M.Jr:

Yes.

H:

-- Smoke them out that way.

H.M.Jr:

I see.

H:

Now, we haven't got any such message yet, but in

ation.

the meantime, Cariguel told Crane that - but
Fraser said they were disappointed -- they didn't
say much on the telephone -- that they were disappointed and wondered whether the reference to
our being sympathetic meant that we would have any

H.M.Jr:

feeling about their making an offer all by themselves. Crane said that he understood that that
meant just what it said and meant just that -- that
if they wanted to do something alone, of course we
wouldn't have any feeling about it.
Crane had this talk with Cariguel?

H:

Yes.

H.M.Jr:

Well, could Crane send me down, as he does always,
his conversation?

H:

Yes.

215

-2H.M.Jr Will you make a note of that?
H:

H.M.Jr:

Yes. I'll tell him now -- he's right here.
Right. Well, I simply feel what they're doing
now is -- after all, they first sent a message

through you people and then they sent a message
through the Embassy - hello - and now they send
a message through Barr.

H:

No, they didn't. They didn't send any message

through Barr. Fraser is just being nice and
helpful in pointing out to me what he heard off
the record.

H.M.Jr:
H:

H.M.Jr:

Oh! Well, I think the thing to do is just sit
tight.
Oh, sure -- we can't do anything else until we

hear from them.

-- They asked the question -- do I understand they
asked have we any objection to their going ahead
alone?

H:

Oh well, they haven't officially asked us anything.

H.M.Jr:

Well, I mean Cariguel.

H:

Well, Cariguel asked Crane during the course of
the conversation he had with him whether it was
his understanding that that word sympathetic
meant that we would have any objection to their
going ahead alone. Crane said he didn't see how
they could have any objection to going ahead

alone if they wanted to. That's all he said on

it.
H.M.Jr:

Well, we could get this down and see what comes.

H:

Yes. O.K.

H.M.Jr:

Now, let me ask you this. I just got through with

H:

Yes.

H.M.Jr:
H:

the Open Market Committee.

You people think that -- I mean you as an individual
-- we could call the 4a or the 3g or nothing?
Well -- you know, I from the beginning, have been
very much in favor of calling as much as you can get

away with. But this thing has got a little shock

21K

-3at the moment and I wouldn't push it too hard.
Therefore, as I see it today, I don't think I
would make any general call or big call until

this thing clears up a bit.

H.M.Jr: I see.
H:

I think you just -- in fighting

Now, -- I

wouldn't object to the 500,000,000 or the 3a. I
don't think that's anything. I think that would be
all right. But I doubt if I would go much beyond
that as I see things today, unless present con-

version
to be. speeds up much more rapidly than it appears

H.M.Jr: of course, I think the present conversion is going
awfully well. We got 75,000,000 yesterday.
H:
Yes. Well -- I -- I'm not discouraged about it,
Henry.

H.M.Jr: I think it's going awfully well.
H:

But

H.M.Jr: You know, all we got to do is to bring out a conversion and then to get a good dose of bad news.

H:

Yes.

H.M.Jr: They always seem to go together. (Laughter)
H:

Well, I don't know how much that misunderstanding

of the statement cost the Street

H.M.Jr: But, we got that straightened out as quickly as is
humanly possible.

Yes, I think you did. Although some people -H.M.Jr: -- Think he meant what he said when he said it.
H:

H:

Yes.

H.M.Jr: Well -H:

(Laughter).
of

there

Some people just won't be convinced. My present

reaction would be to go only for a small issue if
you are going to do anything at all. Now, maybe
you don't --

212

-4H.M.Jr: We'll make up our minds tomorrow.
H:

Yes.

H.M.Jr:

Now, George, could you come down Friday? Be here
Friday evening?

H:

Yes.

H.M.Jr:

You could?

H:

Yes.

H.M.Jr:

At my house?

H:

Yes.

H.M.Jr:

Seven-thirty?

H:

Yes.

H.M.Jr:

Business suit.

H:

All right.

H.M.Jr:

Do you want to bring Crane with you?

H:

I'd like to.

H.M.Jr:

And how about Williams?

H:

Well, let me talk to -- are there going to be many
there?

H.M.Jr: Well, I want to keep it down to eight or ten if I
can.

H:

I think so -- I think -- Henry, I don't think you

get anywhere when you get a big crowd.
H.M.Jr:

Well, then, suppose we confine it to you and Crane.

H:

All right.

H.M.Jr:
H:

Now, I was talking to Jeff -- he mentions Goodhue.
What do you think of that?

Well, I think that he's all right on the theory that
he's just come over from Europe and perhaps can tell
you about the conditions over there and give you

gossip.

27m

-5 H.M.Jr: Well, I don't want any gossip. I get plenty of
that. Can he contribute anything?

H:

I doubt it.

H.M.Jr:

I mean is he an expert?

H:

No.

H.M.Jr:

What?

H:

No, I don't think he is.
That
fellow he's got there is -- his Vice President.

H.M.Jr:
H:

Who is that?

H.M.Jr:

I forget his name.

H:

You don't mean Warbeck, do you? (Laughter)

H.M.Jr:

No - no - no- (Laughter). No, the fellow in

charge of Foreign Exchange. Crane would know his

name.
H:

I see. My own feeling is that the time is not
ripe yet to call in fellows of that type.

H.M.Jr:

We could always get them down on Saturday and Sunday.

H:

What?

H.M.Jr: We could always get them here Saturday and Sunday.
H:

Yes. I don't think you need them.

H.M.Jr:

If it's just a question of gossip, I don't need
any gossip.

H:

Yes.

H.M.Jr:

Well, let's leave it to you and Crane, shall we?

H:

Well, I think that's all right.

H.M.Jr:

You can sleep on it.

H:

Yes.

H.M.Jr:

All right.

H:

And we'll be down there Friday evening then.

-6
H.M.Jr:

If you would.

H:

What?

H.M.Jr:

If you will.
All right.

H:

H.M.Jr:

Thank you.

H:

O.K.

Sear

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be

is

the French the offer and I 1010 him that £

onderetoes the from the Transity Department to

be that we would sympathetic as long as the sterlingfranc-colles sates remained spound recent levels.

788. Caráguez sald theb lie would lot THE KILOR their

decision poparating the offer of of erodit to the British.

1
P

,
9

L

28
Federal Reserve Bank
of New York

OFFICE CORRESPONDENCE

To CONFIDENTIAL FILES

J. E. Crane

From

Date March 13, 1935.

Subject: Telephone Conversation with

Mr. Cariguel of the Bank of France.

I telephoned to Mr. Cariguel at the Bank of
France this morning to inquire about the exchange market
in Paris. He said that things were quiet, that the
dollar
was fairly strong and was being bought for
Belgian and Swiss account.
I asked Mr. Cariguel whether he had had an

opportunity to read our cable of last night which had
been sent in reply to Mr. Cochran's message and he said
that he had seen our cable and felt it was unfortunate
that we could not see our way clear to join with the
French. I asked Mr. Cariguel whether they would offer
the credit alone and he said he did not know as yet,
the matter still being under consideration. Mr. Cariguel
asked me whether I thought we would be sympathetic if
the French made the offer alone and I told him that I

understood the message from the Treasury Department to

be that we would be sympathetic as long as the sterlingfranc-dollar rates remained around recent levels.
Mr. Cariguel said that he would let me know their
decision regarding the offer of a credit to the British.

JEC:KMC

28A
March 14, 1935.

Thursday.

H.M.Jr:

Jeff's on the - we're on the wire together.

The franc seems to be getting to be low and we're
approaching a week-end and I wanted to suggest
that you call up Cariguel, see?Crane:

Yes.

H.M.Jr:

- and tell him that if the gold - if the franc

Crane:

should go below the gold export point and our
American banks didn't act or their banks didn't
act, why, we would be glad to, see?
Yes,
I see. Well, I should think the American
banks would.

H.M.Jr: Well, they might not over a week-end.
Crane:

Yes.

H.M.Jr:

I just thought you might tell them that.

Crane:

Yes.

H.M.Jr:

See?

Crane:

Yes, all right, I'll call him up.

H.M.Jr:

And then when you call him up I wish you would
ask him - he told you for two days how much the
English spent - I'd like to know how much they

Crane:

spent all together. You know
You mean to support sterling.

H.M.Jr:

Yes.

Crane:

We've got a pretty good indication of that in

-

a report that we get each week from the Bank in
France and it appears to be about $25,000,000.

H.M.Jr: Well, that was just that one Thursday and Friday
they spent $25,000,000.

Crane:

Yes. Well, I think that's about all they spent.

H.M.Jr:

Do you want to ask them?

Crane:

Yes, I'll ask him, I - about how much they spent.

-2H.M.Jr:

Yes.

Crane:

I'm not
sure
apt
to tell
mehe'll
- tell me. He's very - he's not

H.M.Jr:

Well,
this. hell he might tell you that in return for

Crane:

Yes. All right - I'll

H.M.Jr:

Right.

Crane:

And I'll let you know.

H.M.Jr:

O.K.

Crane:

All right. Goodbye.

28B

28E
March 14, 1935.

Thursday.
Crane:

Hello.

H.M.Jr:

Hello, Crane.

C:

I just talked with Cariguel -

H.M.Jr:

Yes.

C:

- and he said he thought that was fine and that
he was glad to hear that we'd step in in case of

necessity.
H.M.Jr:
C:

H.M.Jr:
C:

H.M.Jr:
C:

That's right.
He said that he didn't know what attitude the
banks were going to take. He hadn't had occasion
to talk to any of them today, but he would
tomorrow - sort of sound them out. I told him
that our feeling here was that it would be better
to have the market do it That's right.
- but that I thought that both he and we should
encourage them to do it That's right.

- but that if all efforts failed we'd stand in the

breach.

H.M.Jr:

Absolutely.

C:

He said that was fine and he was glad to hear it.
I asked him about what our British friends had done
and he said that he thought about five million

pounds.

H.M.Jr:

Five million pounds.

C:

That's about $25,000,000 and that same figure that
we deduced from some figures that the bank in

France sent us.
H.M.Jr:

Is that the total?

C:

Yes. That's the total amount of sterling that they
bought to support the rate here a week or so ago

when it was weak.

H.M.Jr: Then they were only in for two days?
C:
They were only in as far as he knows for two days.

-2 H.M.Jr:

Right.

C:

Said he doesn't think they were in more.

H.M.Jr: Right. You're coming down tomorrow, aren't you?
C:

Well, I'm coming down tonight. I - I thought
I'd spend the day down there.

H.M.Jr:
C:

Good, good. All right, well, then I'll
be in the Treasury most of the day
tomorrow.

H.M.Jr: Well, then at least they know we're ready in
case of necessity.

C:

H.M.Jr:

Yes. He seemed to be very grateful.
Well, thanks, Crane.

C:

All right, sir.

H.M.Jr:

Goodbye.

C:

Goodbye.

2

84

IM
March 4, 1935.

My dear Mr. Chairman:

In accordance with the understanding reached at

Saturday's hearing 1 am enclosing, herewith, a report given

me by Deputy Commissioner Mellott of the Alcohol Tax Unit

of the Bureau of Internal Revenue with relation to the civil
service status of the personnel affected by the proviso
found in the Emergency Appropriation Act of 1935, in the
item "Collecting the Internal Revenue".

1 think that you will find from this report that

there is no foundation in fact for the suggestion that these

mon had been blanketed into the former Bureau of Prohibition

without civil service examination. They had all qualified

by open competitive examination in complete accord with the

civil service rules. I believe that you will find also

that the appointment of approximately 700 of these men in

the Bureau of Industrial Alcohol, by reinstatement, was like-

wise in full compliance with the civil service rules. Your
attention is specially invited in this connection to the

quoted extract from the Attorney General's opinion addressed
to the President on May 26, 1934, advising him that the
classified status of employees separated from the service
under the provisions of the Executive Order of June 10, 1933,
WES in no wise affected by such soparation.

I will very much appreciate your favorable consideration of the pending estimate for funds from which this personnel may be compensated. Should the Committee desire

further information upon any phase of the matter 1 shall be

only too glad to furnish it.

Very truly yours,

Secretary.

Honorable Carter Glass,
Chairman, Committee on Appropriations,
United States Senate.

30

March 2, 1935

MEMORANDUM for the Secretary of the Treasury:

In accordance with your instructions, I submit below
a resume of the history of the Alcohol Tax Unit and its predecessor agencies from the standpoint of the application of the

civil service laws:

From the adoption of the Eighteenth Amendment until

April 1, 1927. the enforcement of the Prohibition laws was carried on by the Bureau of Internal Revenue, in a special division
known as the Prohibition Unit. By the Act of March 3. 1927.
which became effective April 1, 1927, the Prohibition Unit of

the Bureau of Internal Revenue was abolished and unt 11 July 1,
1930. the duty of the prohibition enforcement was performed by a
separate bureau in the Treasury Department, known as the Bureau

of Prohibition. By the Act of May 27. 1930. which became offective July 1, 1930, the Bureau of Prohibition was transferred
to the Department of Justice. Those of its functions. however,
which had to do with the supervision of the production and dis-

tribution of alcohol for industrial and scientific uses were

transferred to a new bureau in the Treasury Department which
was given the name Bureau of Industrial Alcohol.
The Bureau of Prohibition in the Department of
Justice was abolished on August 9. 1933. pursuant to the provi-

sions of the President's Order of June 10th, effecting a general
reorganization of the Executive Departments. Its functions.

however, were continued without substantial change in a separate
division called the Alcoholic Beverage Unit.

The Executive Order of March 10, 1934, abolished the
Burean of Industrial Alcohol in the Treasury Department and the
Alecholic Beverage Unit in the Department of Justice, and trans-

forred their functions, records and personnel to the Bureau of
Internal Revenue. This Order became effective May 10. 1934,

2

and to carry out its provisions a special unit was created in
the Bureau of Internal Revenue under the name Alcohol Tax

Unit. with minor exceptions, this Unit, under the direction
of the Commissioner of Internal Revenue, is now charged with

the enforcement of all Federal liquor laws.

CIVIL SERVICE REQUIREMENTS

From the establishment of the Prohibition Unit in
the Bureau of Internal Revenue in 1920, until 1927. the ap.
pointments in the Prohibition Service, with the exception of
clerical personnel, were, by special provision of law, made

without reference to the civil service rules. By the Act of

March 3. 1927. which became effective April 1, 1927, Congress

provided that all appointments should be subject to the provi.
sions of the civil service laws, and provided further that the
term of office of any person in the Prohibition Service who
was not appointed subject to the civil service laws should ex-

pire October 1, 1927. The member of employees in the Bureau
of Prohibition when this law became effective was approximate.
ly 4,300. of whom approximately 2,600 were officers, agents,
administrators, inspectors and investigators who had been ap.

pointed without regard to the civil service laws.*

Following the Act of March 3. 1927. the Civil Serv

ice Commission announced open competitive examinations for all

positions in the Bureau of Prohibition, excepting clerical
positions already held by proos with a classified civil service status. The certification of eligibles from these open

competitive examinations was not completed by the Civil Service
Commission until September, 1928, and in the meantime the Commission found it necessary, pending the establishment of

eligible lists, to authorize an indefinite extension of the

employment of persons then in the Bureau without civil service
status, this to be terminated in any individual case upon an
adverse finding by the Commission in respect to the incumbent's

character. From the lists of eligibles certified by the Com-

mission in September, 1928, the Department proceeded to make

*Of this number, approximately 400 were inspectors assigned to

the supervision of permittees licensed under the provisions of
the National Prohibition Act.

- 3appointments as required by law, replacing those of the existing force who had not qualified in the examination, and within

a few months had exhausted the lists of eligibles in practically

all field districts. In most districts, however, it developed
that there were insufficient eligibles to fill all positions

and it became necessary for the Civil Service Commission to
announce further examinations to meet this deficiency. from
whiah eligibles were certified and appointments made late in
the year 1929.

By April 30. 1930. the whole force of the Bureau of
Prohibition, consisting of about 4,750 employees, were in their

positions in full accord with the civil service rules. A

certain number of positions had been filled by the transfer of
classified employees from other government departments or by

reinstatement of classified employees, with the approval of the
Civil Service Commission, but with these exceptions the entire
personnel had qualified under the open competitive examinations
conducted by the Civil Service Commission pursuant to the requirements of the Act of March 3. 1927.
These examinations were of the type regularly given
by the Civil Service Commission for appointments in the clas-

sified civil service. For approximately 500 positions above
the grade of investigator, that is, administrators, assistant
administrators, deputy administrators, senior investigators,
attorneys and chemists, the examinations were nonassembled,

consisting of a showing by each applicant of his education,
training and experience. For all other positions the examinations were assembled and consisted of a mental test in three
sections calculated to determine the applicant's general intel-

ligence as well as his special fitness for the duties of a
prohibition officer. All candidates in the case of the nonassembled, as well as the assembled, examinations were sub-

jected to a searching character investigation and to an oral
examination to determine the applicant's personal characteristics
and address, quickness of understanding, adaptability and judgment. The examinations were in all particulars as strict and
comprehensive as any which had been given by the Commission up

to that time for analogous positions in any branch of the
government service. Some evidence of the difficulty of the

examinations will be found in the fact that the first of the
two tests was taken by 12,436 persons of whom only 4,504 re-

coived eligible ratings on the mental requirements, and from

the further fact that of this latter number 1,865 were later
declared ineligible by the Commission as a result of the
personality, character and fitness investigations.

It is to be understood, of course, that virtually

all the 2,600 non-civil service employees in the Bureau of Prohibition at the time competed in these examinations. In this

connection, it is to be noted that only thirty per cent, or

about 800, of these old employees survived the first examina-

tion and received ratings making them eligible to hold their

positions. Of those failing in the first examination, how-

ever, almost 500 successfully completed the second examination,

In other words, about half the old personnel of the Prohibition
Service were ultimately able to retain their positions under
the civil service requirements imposed by the Act of March 3.
1927.

In view of the foregoing facts it will be correct

to say that at the time the Bureau of Prohibition was trans-

ferred from the Treasury Department to the Department of Justice

on July 1, 1930, its personnel was entirely a civil service
personnel, recruited in full compliance with all the laws and
regulations pertaining to the civil service system.
THE EXECUTIVE ORDER OF JUNE 10, 1933

From July 1, 1930, when the Bureau of Prohibition
became a part of the Department of Justice, until July 1, 1933,
appointments to positions in the Prohibition Service continued

to be made exclusively from the lists of eligibles established
by the Civil Service Commission, with the exception, of course,
of instances of transfers or reinstatements of persons with

a classified civil service status. Until July 1, 1932, the

tendency was to increase the Bureau's personnel to keep pace

with the continued efforts of the Department to give effective
enforcement to the Prohibition laws. With the enactment of
the first Economy Law some slight reduction in the force of
field agents was made on July 1, 1932, following which the
Bureau's total force stood at a figure of about 3,300. By
June 30, 1933, this personnel had been reduced by normal separa-

tions to 3,100. At that time, partly to meet the reduced appropriations available for the fiscal year 1934, and partly in

anticipation of the repeal of the Prohibition Amendment, it

was found advisable to make a drastic reduction in the member

of employees. Almost 400 field agents and clerks were furloughed at the close of business on June 30, 1933. or shortly

thereafter, of which number about 160 were subsequently reinstated. Approximately 100 new appointments were made, and
the Bureau's personnel in active-duty status on August 9th con-

sisted of slightly less than 2,000 employees of all classes.

As has been seen the Bureau of Prohibition was abolished by Executive Order No. 6166, dated June 10, 1933. This
Executive Order, which became effective on August 9. 1933.
abolished or consolidated a large number of agencies in many
departments of the government, and with regard to all such

abolished agencies it contained the following provision respecting the disposition to be made of the personnel:
"All personnel employed in connection with
the work of an abolished agency or function disposed of shall be separated from the service of
the United States, except that the head of any
successor agency, subject to my approval, may,

within a period of 4 months after transfer or

consolidation, reappoint any of such personnel
required for the work of the successor agency

without reexamination or loss of civil-service
status."

Pursuant to this provision the entire force of the

Bureau of Prohibition, consisting of approximately 2,000 cmployees of all classes in active-duty status and approximately

1,240 who had previously been placed on furlough, were separated

from the service at the close of business on August 9th. As

authorized by the Executive Order, 1,191* of this number were
reappointed on August 10th, in the Alcoholic Beverage Unit, to
which the functions of the Prohibition Service were now assigned.
During the period which intervened between August 9th and the
transfer of the personnel to the Bureau of Internal Revenue a
considerable number of those separated from the service on
August 9th were reinstated and a number of new appointments were

*Including approximately 300 clerical employees. Exact records
of the personnel transactions which occurred in the Department
of Justice during the period under discussion are not available
in the Treasury Department.

-6
made, under special Executive authorisation, without regard to
the civil service rules. In the same period upwards of 300
additional clerks and investigators were separated from the
service. On May 10, 1934, when the personnel was transferred
to the Bureau of Internal Revenue it consisted of 977 persons,
exclusive of approximately 70 who were retained in the Department of Justice. Of this number 639 were investigators or
field agents. The remainder were clorical and technical employees of various classifications.
THE ALCOHOL TAX UNIT

with the repeal of the Prohibition Amendment in
December, 1933. it was determined by the President, upon the
advice of the Attorney General and the Secretary of the

Treasury, that responsibility for the enforcement of Federal
laws relating to the production and distribution of alcoholic

beverages should properly be transferred from the Department of
Justice to the Bureau of Internal Revenue and this transfer was
ultimately consumated by Executive Order No. 6639. dated March
10, 1934, which became effective on May 10. 1934. Pending

this transfer it was also determined that the Treasury Department, through the Bureau of Industrical Alcohol, should at once
lay Plans for the enforcement of the internal reverse laws
relating to intoxicating beverages and to recruit personnel
which could be used in enforcement work in different parts of
the country. After conference with the Civil Service Commission it was determined by the Department that the only avail-

able means of recruiting an experienced force would be by make
ing appointments, by reinstatement, from among the approximately
2,000 investigators and agents who had been separated from the

Department of Justice under the provisions of the Executive
Order of June 10. 1933. as above noted. Accordingly. the records of all such investigators and agents were carefully
examined by the Commissioner of Industrial Alcohol and during
the period from February 1 to April 10, 1934. 698 mon were
selected for appointment to the rolls of the Bureau of
Industrial Alcohol in this way, and their reinstatement was
authorized by the Civil Service Commission. In making these
appointments the sole basis taken was the efficiency, character

-7-

and disciplinary records of the mon and no consideration was

given to any other factor.* To aid him in passing upon these

records the Commissioner of Industrial Alcohol made use of a
committee informally designated by him and consisting of
experienced officers selected from the Bureau of Industrial

Alcohol, the Intelligence Unit of the Bureau of Internal

Revenue, and the Alcoholic Beverage Unit of the Department of
Justice.
On May 10, 1934, under the provisions of Executive

Order No. 6639, the personnel of the Bureau of Industrial
Alcohol and the Alcoholic Beverage Unit of the Department of
Justice were transferred to the Bureau of Internal Revenue
and consolidated in the Alcohol Tax Unit, Under this Order
the 698 agents who had been appointed by the Commissioner of

Industrial Alcohol, as above indicated, were merged with the
639 investigators transferred from the Alcoholic Beverage Unit

of the Department of Justice into a single field investigative
organization.

THE PROVISIONS OF THE EMERGENCY APPROPRIATION ACT

The Emergency Appropriation Act, approved June 19.

1934, contained an appropriation of $10,000,000 for the Bureau
of Internal Revenue, to which was attached the following proviso:
Provided, That after December 1, 1934, no

part of the appropriation made herein or heretofore made for the fiscal year 1935 shall be used

*The reinstatement eligibility of classified employees who are
separated from the service without fault is determined by Executive Order. Employees eligible for reinstatement are not listed

by the Civil Service Commission in the order of their eligibility,
and reinstatement must in any case be made upon the judgment and

opinion of the appointing officer as to the qualifications of
those eligible, subject to the approval of the Civil Service Com-

mission.

-&
to Pay the salary of any person formerly employ-

ed as investigator, special again, senior ware-

houseman, deputy prohibition administrator. agent,

assistant attorney, assistant prohibition administrater, senior investigator, deputy production
administrator, storekseper or ginger, or any other
position in the Prohibition Bureau or Alcoholic

Beverage Unit, Department of Justice, who was
separated from the service of such Bureau or Unit
between June 10, 1933. and December 31, 1933,

while in any such position in the Treasury Department, unless and until such person shall be appointed thereto as a result of an open, competitive examination to be hereafter held by the
Civil Service Commission."

Although the purpose of this legislation is not evident from the terms of the statute, it is to be assumed from
contemporary discussions that its framers were of the opinion,
first, that the employees of the classes emmerated had not
secured their positions in the former Bureau of Prohibition
through proper civil service examination, and, second, that the
employees of these classes who were separated from the service
under the provisions of the Executive Order of June 10, 1933,
who had not been reappointed prior to the expiration of the

four months period defined in that Order, had lost their

eligibility for reinstatement under the civil service rules

and that, therefore, the appointment of 698 of such persons in
the Burean of Industrial Alcohol, as above described, was not
authorized by law.

As to the first of these points, it has already

been observed that the field agents who were in the service of
the Bureau of Prohibition prior to the abolishment of that
Bureau by the Executive Order of June 10, 1933, had, without
exception, received their appointments as the result of
regular open competitive civil service examinations or, in

rare instances, by transfer from positions in the classified
civil service, or by reinstatement in accordance with the civil
service rules. The claim has been made that the civil service
examinations to which this personnel were subjected amounted

to nothing more than so-called character tests, or, in other

words, that they were not required to pass a mental examination

but were virtually blanketed into the service. There is no

-9evidence to support this charge. The record shows no instance

of Marketing into the service. The facts with reference to

the examinations given have been set forth above, but it will
be well to add that of the persons who were employed in the
former Bureau of Prohibition prior to the establishment of
civil service requirements only 268 remained on May 10, 1934,
when the residue of the Prohibition organisation was consolidated in the Alcohol Tax Unit of the Treasury Department,
these survivors, of course, having qualified in the mantime
on open competitive civil service examination. of this number
133 were reinstated in the Bureau of Industrial Alcohol during
February and March, 1934, and 136 were transferred from the

Alcoholic Beverage Unit of the Department of Justice. There
is attached hereto a list of such employees.

As to the second point, that is, the charge that empleyees of the classes emmerated who were separated from the
service by operation of the Executive Order of June 10, 1933,

unless reappointed in the Alcoholic Beverage Unit within the
four months' period named in that order, were ineligible to

be reinstated under the civil service rules, it mast be said
that this is a point which received no attention by the Department at the time 698 of these employees were reinstated in the

Bureau of Industrial Alcohol, as above described. It will be
remembered that the Executive Order of June 10th had applies-

tion to a large member of agencies in various Executive Depart
ments which were either abolished or consolidated by its provisions. Thousands of employees in various branches of the
government were affected by the provisions of the Order requiring their separation from the service: and it was a matter of

common knowledge at the time that all such employees from what
ever agencies separated were considered not only by the appoint-

ing officers in the Executive Departments generally, but by the

Civil Service Commission also, as retaining their eligibility
for reinstatement under the civil service rules without any
regard to the four months' limitation found in the Executive

Order. The appointments were made by the Bureau of Industrial
Alcohol in good faith in accordance with the common practice

which prevailed at the time. It wasnot until weeks after the

consummation of those appointments that it came to the notice of

- 10 -

the Treasury Department that the eligibility of the persons
selected for reinstatement in the Bureau of Industrial Alcohol

had been brought into question.

The merits of this contention must, of course, depend upon the meaning and intent of the provision of the
Executive Order of June 10th, which was quoted on page 5,

above. A construction of this provision was requested of the
Attorney General by the President following the raising of the
question during the month of May, 1934. In response to the
President's request the Attorney General, under date of May 26,

1934, rendered an opinion reading, in part, as follows:

"The language of the paragraph in question is

plain and unambiguous. It speaks for itself.

Under the provisions of the paragraph the personnel employed in connection with any abolished
agency or function disposed of are separated from
the service, but the head of any successor agency

is authorized to reappoint within a certain period
without reexamination or loss of Civil Service
Status, any of such personnel required for the
work of the successor agency. The purpose of this
provision, as its language clearly indicates, is

to enable the head of the successor agency within a limited period to make reappointments from
among such personnel without regard to the Civil Service Act and Rules. Not even by the remotest
implication of the language employed can it be
said that it deprives or attempts to deprive those
who are not reappointed within the prescribed
period of the Civil Service status possessed by
them at the time of their separation from the
service."

At least from the standpoint of the appointing officers
this is believed to dispose of any question which may have been

raised with respect toethe civil service eligibility of persons

separated from classified positions pursuant to the provisions
of the Executive Order of June 10th. Such persons must be deem-

ed to have retained their eligibility for reinstatement in accordance with the usual civil service rules. Certainly there

can be no greater reason for questioning the status of the 698
men who were reinstated in the Bureau of Industrial Alcohol

- 11 -

under the circumstances surrounding this particular case than

to raise a similar question with regard to former classified
employees of any agency abelished by the Executive Order of
June 10th, who may have received employment, by reinstate-

ment, in classified positions in other branches of the Federal
service.

Respectfully submitted,

Arthur J. Mellott,
Deputy Commissioner of Internal Revenue.

31

Present Defereement Officers of the
Alaenal Tax Unit wise occupied excepted positions

in the Prohibition Unit, Treasury Department.

prior to April 1. 1987, and who have acquired

aivil Service status as result of competitive
emminations held since that date.

Date of Probational
Present
Name

Goyne, Robert W.

Honnoberry. Harold L.
Reese, Josiah L.
Shea, Frank T.
Yeaver, Henry P.

Bird, Edward S.

Bowditen, Edward A.
DeAngelo, Thomas

Eager, Harold W.
*Graves, Fay B.

Hall, John
*Fitchcock, William
Kelley. Edward F.
*Kent, James M.

Lordan, Dennis T.
Lydic, George B.
Machrayne, Winfred C.
Marpay. Thomas F.

Norton, John E.

Pallas. Felix C.

Sullivan, Walter H.

Hanson, Martin O.

Araitage, Victor L.

Bernstein, Carlos M.

*Brinckerhoff, Clifford

grederick, James J.
Brown, Joseph R.

Carrice. Andrew, Jr.
Cusack, Warren E.

Daly, William E.
*Davis, Richard

D'Angelion, Pellegrino
Dear doff. Edward E.

Delong, J. Clark

*Diresse. Joseph M.

Duan. William E. Jr.
*Felix. Frederick
Forbes, Charles M.
Prayne, Joseph A.
*Gallagher, John P.

Giesler, William H.

Position

appointment from com-

petitive examination

Investigator in Charge
Investigator
Investigator in Charge
Investigator
Investigator in Charge
Investigator
Investigator
Investigator
Investigator
Investigator
Investigator
Investigator
Investigator
Investigator
Investigator
Investigator
Investigator
Investigator
Investigator
Senior Investigator
Investigator

10-16-28
1-31-29
2-16-29
10-6-28
2-7-29
4-1-30
11-15-30
2-26-29
1-28-26
2-28-29
3-1-29
6-22-31
1-31-29
3-26-31
1-31-29
3-4-29
5-4-29
2-26-29
2-27-29
10-27-28
6-28-29

Investigator in Charge
Senior Investigator
Senior Investigator
Investigator
Investigator
Investigator
Investigator
Investigator
Investigator
Investigator
Investigator
Investigator
Investigator
Investigator
Investigator
Investigator
Investigator
Senior Investigator
Investigator
Investigator

1-14-29
2-16-29

5- 1-29
2-4-29
2-8-29
9-18-29
1-7-29
2-4-29
5-1-30
10-1-31
3-21-30
12-1-28
2-26-30
2-4-30
18-21-28
2-4-89
1-7-89
2-1-29
2-4-29
3-16-31

Date of Probational
Present
Name

Position

Cunnison, Laurence W.

Investigator
Investigator
Investigator
Investigator
Investigator
Investigator
Investigator
Investigator
Investigator
Investigator
Investigator
Investigator
Investigator
Investigator
Investigator
Investigator
Investigator
Investigator
Investigator
Investigator
Investigator

*Hall, Charles L.
*Hanlon, Arthur J.
*Hartwell, Perley B.

Henry, Lawrence T.
*Hildreth, Jemes W.
Journety, Henry F.

Keating, Elton T.
*Kelly, Francis J.
"Kendall, Harry W.

*Lannon, John P.
*Lupton, Charles W.
McCenn, William F.
"MeIntyre, Ambrose A.

Mealy, Joseph J., Jr.

"Morrissey, James B.
Mullaney, Charles A.
Murphy, Edward J.
"Newman, Harry
Newton, Raymond M.

*O'Brien, William
Olson, Herbert

*Patton, Harold T.

Petitte, James K.
Reager, Peter
*Rice, John D.
Rissen, Terry S.
Smith, Lowell R.
*Spose, Joseph
*Stevenson, Herman W.

Sweeney, John P.

Samski, Harry

Tensay, Michael
Tatro, Joseph A.

Ford, Robert D.
Gralton, Gregory A.
Hickman, L. Dene

Shirley, Lambert O.
Chidester, Thurmen L.
"Coreoran, Dan H.
*Codfrey, Roland A.

"Herr, Cyrus A.

Hill, Burr

Johnson, Julius N.
*Jones, Orville
Montgomery, John G.

*Paris, Edgar D.
Reney, Harry We
Regan, Leonard

appointment from compati-

tive examination

Wire Technician

Investigator
Investigator
Investigator
Investigator
Investigator
Senior Investigator
Investigator
Investigator
Investigator
Investigator
Investigator
Investigator
Investigator in Charge
Investigator
Senior Investigator
Investigator in Charge
Investigator
Investigator
Investigator
Investigator
Investigator
Investigator
Investigator
Investigator
Investigator
Immetigator
Investigator

5-8-29
4-5-29
3-19-28
5-16-29
3-21-30

3-3-30
9-8-28
3-7-29
2-4-29
6-22-31
4-2-31
3-9-31
3-5-30
2-4-29
2-11-29
2-4-29
1-25-29
3-19-30
2-4-29
5-7-29
6-16-31
1-9-30
5-13-29
11-19-28
1-25-29
5-1-31
9-7-28
1-16-28
6-10-30
2-24-30
2-12-30
4-1-30
3-24-30
4-25-29
2-14-28
9-11-28
5-1-29
3-8-29
10-1-29
3-19-30
1-16-29
3-24-31
2-20-30
1-21-89

2-14-89
4-1-29
1-21-29

3-1-29
2-23-29

Present
Name

Position

Dunigan, William E.
*Barnhart, Charles E.

Assistant Supervisor
Investigator

*Bressler, Arthur D.
*Cimbalists, Michael P.
Could, George J.

Subert, Frank E.
*Isler, Samuel G.
*Kynner, George C.

.

10- 1-88

9-30

w

2-16-31
1-21-30
10-16-28

"

9-9-30

.

4-24-28

"

10-16-28

.

10-16-28

1-9-30

.

8-14-28

"

1-6-30

Young, Robert B.

Assistant Supervisor
Investigator in Charge
"Alexander, Nathaniel C.Investigator
Arnold, Alexander M.
Heddens, Warren A.
Wickham, John H.

*Bishop. Louis J.
*Burgees, Samuel C.

Caffey, Myron M.
*Cash, John T.
*Cooper, Jaba F.
Crush, William B.

.

"

.

.

.
.
.
.

*Dirting, John L.

.

*Griffin, Cyril T.

.

*Gates, LeRoy L.

Harman, George G.

Harvey, William R.
"Hood, Cheeser A.

Hurst, James W.
King, Marion A. R.
*London, John J.
"Lampkin, Frank D.
*Mitchell, Lawrence G.
*Moore, James L.

Malball, William B.
Ovena, John R.

Faul, David B.
*Batledge, J. F.
Sehults, Walter H.
White, Samuel O.
*Wilkins, Thomas C.
*Wood, William E.

1-6-30
10-25-28

.

*Banks, John B.
Barton, John M.

10-16-28

.

*MoCandless, Park R.
Malley, Edward C.
Shane, Harry C.

Wills, Francis V.

4-16-29

9-30

.

Uptograff, Thomas A.
*Weible, Charles H.

examination

.

Langford, Harold A.

Uptograff, Frank B.

Date of Probational
appointment from competitive

.

.

.
-

#

.
.

.
"

.
"

w

Wire Technician
Investigator

7-31-26

12-1-28
2-16-28
1-16-29
12-16-29
1-29-30

12- 1-28
12- 1-28
4- 1-29
12-16-29
10-16-28

11- 6-28
12- 1-28
1-10-30
12- 1-28
2-18-32
7- 1-31
12- 1-28
12- 1-28
12-16-29
12- 1-28
12- 1-28

7- 1-31
1- 2-30
3-15-89

2- 5-32
12- 1-28
9- 1-31
12- 1-28
12- 1-28
12- 1-28
9-17-29

Date of Prohational
appointment from competitive

Present
Name

Pennington, John D.

Koehler, Karie E.

Mm. F.
Tonkny, Wm. MOK.

Anglim, Freak E.
Beak, Kenneth G.

Claffey, Joseph H.
Evans, Geo. R.

Diet. Supervisor
Investigator in Charge
#

Investigator
#

#

Ray, W. L.
Maloney. Lane
Simons, Gustave J.
Bemnrie, Howard C.

*Bennett. will M.

*Browing, James G.
Campbell, Francis J.
Casserly, Ray J.
Dowd, Victor J.
Ford, Robert W.
*Koesjan, William H.
Kominokis, James

Kneumerloin, John F.
*Larson, Arthur R.
*McCoole, John

McCullum, John, Jr.

Miller, Walter T.
Mills, Benj. F.

#

#

"

Chapman, Ellie S.
Anderman, Emile J.
*Bryant, George F.
Cooper, Claud B.
Quinn, Walter C.
Holland, Lake
Rudspeth, Goo.
Landry. Edw. C.
Homeon, Wm. S.

*Schraeder, Sidney
Smith, Edwin F.

Wright, Wiley H.

2-4-29

10-19-28
11-1-28

Asst. Supervisor (Enf.)
Investigator in Charge

3-16-29
11-7-28
3-3-29

Investigator

12-1-28

Wire Technician

Investigator
.

#

a

#

.

a

11-22-28

11-1-28
13-1-28
12-1-28
2-13-31
3-1-29
12-1-28
5-5-31

2-1-29

#

7-14-31
13-1-28
12-1-28
1-11-29
12-1-28
8-2-28
12-18-28
3-14-31
10-8-28

.

#

#

#

M

*Hebelsick, Albert F.
Skallerup. Harry W.
*Stine, Glann W.
Frank L. White

1-16-29
4-13-28

10-1-28
3-11-29
4-15-29
1-16-30
3-14-32

#

.

Hard, Edw. H.

3-20-28
2-19-29

Flaherty, Hugh E.
Homes, Jos. F.

*Kerstetter, Meredith B.

exaination

Position

#

#

"

#

Investigator in Charge
Investigator
.

#

#

#

.

#

#

#

.

.

3-27-28

1-9-30
11-16-28

7-2-29
10-15-28
1-7-30
3-16-30
10-16-28
1-31-31
11-24-28

3-15-30
1-14-30

Date of Probational
appointment from competitive

Present
Name

Position

District Supervisor
Tuttle, Robert E.
Hearington, William D. Investigator in Charge
Investigator
Andrews, Jones E.
Austin, E. N.
Barrenbrugge, Jamos H.

*Clark, Frank B.
*Day, William T.
Grabbs, Walter C.

Kimsey, Joseph R.
*McPherson, Samuel 0.
*Merrick, Romaine e.

*Myrick, Elvis W.
Souther, Frank L.

Strickland, Owen C.
Wright, Howard P.

*Kinnaird, William H.
*Disney. William B.
Griffin, George S.
*Larkin, Edmund A.

*Phillips, Joseph
*Shofner, William B.
*Stagge, Twyman C.

*Smallwood, Arthur M.
Statton, Edward M.
*Thomas, Joe J.

Brunor, Wilbur K.
Nees, Kliot
Anderson, Charles H.

Berard, Ulric H.

Robuck, Halph W.

*Soully, Arthur Q.

"

Morrill, John W.
White, James L.

*Huff, William L.
Mitchell, John J.
*Taylor, Frederic M.

3. 7-29
2-16-29

1- 6-30
12- 1-28
8- 1-30
10-16-28

"

3- 3-28

"

1-30

"

1-29-31

.

7-1-29

.

2-16-28
8-21-30
1-31-31
10-16-28

"

.

.

.

Senior Investigator
Investigator in Charge
Investigator

3. 1-28

8-89
7-21-28

.

12- 4-29

.

18-15-28

4-2-28
1-2-29

-

.

6-16-30
1-27-31

"

"

4- 7-30
1-7-30

"

.

Assistant Supervisor (Enf.)2-16-29
4- 1-29
Investigator in Charge
12-27-28
Investigator
.

-

.

*Von Batchelder, Linus
Cowan, L. Morell

examination

Assistant Supervisor
Investigator in Charge
Investigator
Wire Technician

Investigator

9-15-28
4-19-30
5-28-29
3-30-31

& 3-29
3-4-29
1-25-29

1- 6-30

12-1-28
1-21-29

Date of Probational
appointment from competitive

Present

examination

Name

Position

Dunoon, Harvey L.

Invest. in Charge
.

Herrick, Ralph E.
Bensell, Santal D.

#

.

Wire Technician

Investigator

*Brown, Dave F.

Cole, Louis F.

#

*DeArmond, Horval L.

#

*Ellis, William F.

#

*Harris, Thomas L.
*Knapp. otis B.
Pollan, Ulous

#

#

*Rowien, Thad W.

*Small, George P.

#

1=1=30

#

5-5-28

1-25-30
3-1-29
1-13-30

#

*Sutterfield, Arthur

Whitenack, Lester C.

#

#

Investigator

*Wright, Wellington
*Campbell, Charles K.
*Depew, Charles E.
*Eastland, Howard W.
*Hosmann, Nicholas N.

*Hoselton, Reginald J.
*Knutson, Martin A.
*Lippold, Burton V.
*May. Gus

*Nelson, Mathem H.
*Peterson, Edward L.
*Rhondes, Robert L.
*Benson, Charles E.
*Schroeder, Heman W.
Silverman, Maurice
*Splawn, Newton

Viitala, Matt

*Weld, Kenneth I.
*williams, Clarence R.

#

Sweet, George H.

*Tingle, Benjamin H.
*Ure, John E.

3-20-30
3-19-30

1-7-29
6-23-30
2-7-29
6-17-30
13-1-28
1-5-29

.

#

#

#

.

#

6-25-30
11-26-28
2-16-31

.
.

#

1-7-29

#

2-17-31

#

5-6-29
11-1-28

#

a

5-16-29

#

3-15-30
3-1-29
1-4-29
10-16-28

a

#

#

#

*Wood, Honor F.

*Baker, Leamel L.
Cohoon, Burton W.. Jr.
Drew, Harry Z.
Lewrence, David R.
*Reeves, Clarence H.
*Seaver, George H.

1-7-29
2-1-29
3-16-29
2-1-29
1-7-29
2-1-29
1-24-30
2-1-29

#

*Gill, Paul K.

7-1-27

7-1-29

.

Ericilla, Jacob E.

3-30-26

Investigator
.

.

#

#

.

#

.

.

6-3-31

2-16-29
12-1-28
3-1-29
1-2-30
1-12-29
1-15-29
8-2-28

3-18-30

*Reinstated as Regulative Independence, I of Industrial
Alcohol, February - April. 193%

73p CONGRESS

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES DOCUMENT
No. 69

1st Session

CONSOLIDATION, TRANSFERS, AND ABOLITION OF
EXECUTIVE AGENCIES

MESSAGE
FROM

THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES
TRANSMITTING

AN EXECUTIVE ORDER FOR CERTAIN REGROUPINGS CONSOLIDATIONS, TRANSFERS, AND ABOLITIONS OF EXECUTIVE AGENCIES AND FUNCTIONS THEREOF

JUNE 10, 1933.-Referred to the Committee on Expenditures in Executive
Departments and ordered to be printed
To the Congress:

Pursuant to the provisions of section 1, title III, of the act entitled
"An act to maintain the credit of the United States Government"
approved March 20, 1933, I am transmitting herewith an Executive

order for certain regroupings, consolidations, transfers, and abolitions
of executive agencies and functions thereof.

Please let me tell you very simply and frankly that in transmitting
this Executive order at this late hour in the special session, I have
had no thought of taking what might be considered an advantage of
the Congress. The very urgent demands of the public business, both
legislative and administrative, during the past few weeks have made
it literally impossible to complete the study of consolidation.
Many other changes are in contemplation and I have selected only
those which I believe should be put into effect as quickly as possible.

These additional changes I do not feel it right to submit until the

next regular session of the Congress.
May I suggest that if the changes proposed in the present Executive

order are not concurred in by the Congress they can be restored or
otherwise changed at the beginning of the next regular session a few
months hence.

The justification for sending this Executive order up, even at this
late hour, is that it will effect a saving of more than $25,000,000. This
is well worth while.
FRANKLIN D. ROOSEVELT.
THE WHITE HOUSE, June 10, 1933.

2

CONSOLIDATION AND ABOLITION OF EXECUTIVE AGENCIES
EXECUTIVE ORDER

ORGANIZATION OF EXECUTIVE AGENCIES

Whereas section 16 of the act of March 3, 1933 (Public, No. 428,
47 Stat. 1517), provides for reorganizations within the executive
branch of the Government: requires the President to investigate and
determine what reorganizations are necessary to effectuate the purposes of the statute: and authorizes the President to make such reorganizations by Executive order; and
Whereas I have investigated the organization of all executive and
administrative agencies of the Government and have determined that

certain regroupings, consolidations, transfers, and abolitions of

executive agencies and functions thereof are necessary to accomplish
the purposes of section 16;
Now, Therefore, by virtue of the aforesaid authority, I do hereby
order that:
SECTION 1.-Procurement

The function of determination of policies and methods of procurement, warehousing, and distribution of property, facilities, structures,
improvements, machinery, equipment, stores, and supplies exercised
by any agency is transferred to a procurement division in the Treasury
Department, at the head of which shall be a director of procurement.

The Office of the Supervising Architect of the Treasury Depart-

ment is transferred to the Procurement Division, except that the buildings of the Treasury Department shall be administered by the Treas-

ury Department and the administration of post-office buildings is
transferred to the Post Office Department The General Supply

Committee of the Treasury Department is abolished.
In respect of any kind of procurement, warehousing, or distribution for any agency the Procurement Division may, with the approval
of the President, (a) undertake the performance of such procurement,
warehousing, or distribution itself, or (b) permit such agency to perform such procurement, warehousing, or distribution, or (c) entrust
such performance to some other agency, or (d) avail itself in part of
any of these recourses, according as it may deem desirable in the

interest of economy and efficiency. When the Procurement Divi-

sion has prescribed the manner of procurement, warehousing, or dis-

tribution of any thing, no agency shall thereafter procure, ware-

house, or distribute such thing in any manner other than so prescribed.

The execution of work now performed by the Corps of Engineers
of the Army shall remain with said corps, subject to the responsibilities herein vested in the Procurement Division.
The Procurement Division shall also have control of all property,
facilities, structures, machinery, equipment, stores, and supplies
not necessary to the work of any agency; may have custody thereof
or entrust custody to any other agency; and shall furnish the same to
agencies as need therefor may arise.

The fuel yards of the Bureau of Mines of the Department of

Commerce are transferred to the Procurement Office.
The Federal Employment Stabilization Board is abolished, and its
records are transferred to the Federal Emergency Administration of

Public Works if and when said administration is authorized and

established.

CONSOLIDATION AND ABOLITION OF EXECUTIVE AGENCIES

3

SECTION 2.-National parks, buildings, and reservations

All functions of administration of public buildings, reservations,
national parks, national monuments, and national cemeteries are
consolidated in an Office of National Parks, Buildings, and Reservations in the Department of the Interior, at the head of which shall
be a director of national parks, buildings, and reservations: except
that where deemed desirable there may be excluded from this provision any public building or reservation which is chiefly employed as
a facility in the work of a particular agency. This transfer and consolidation of functions shall include, among others, those of the
National Park Service of the Department of the Interior and the
National Cemeteries and Parks of the War Department which are
located within the continental limits of the United States. National
cemeteries located in foreign countries shall be transferred to the
Department of State, and those located in insular possessions under
the jurisdiction of the War Department shall be administered by the
Bureau of Insular Affairs of the War Department.
The functions of the following agencies are transferred to the office
of National Parks, Buildings, and Reservations of the Deparment
of the Interior, and the agencies are abolished: Arlington Memorial
Bridge Commission, Public Buildings Commission, Public Buildings
and Public Parks of the National Capital, National Memorial Commission, and Rock Creek and Potomac Parkway Commission.
Expenditures by the Federal Government for the purposes of the
Commission of Fine Arts, the George Rogers Clark Sesquicentennial
Commission and the Rushmore National Commission shall be
administered by the Department of the Interior.
SECTION 3.-Incestigations

All functions now exercised by the Bureau of Prohibition of the
Department of Justice with respect to the granting of permits under

the national prohibition laws are transferred to the Division

of

Internal Revenue in the Treasury Department.

All functions now exercised by the Bureau of Prohibition with

respect to investigations and all the functions now performed by the
Bureau of Investigation of the Department of Justice are transferred
to and consolidated in a Division of Investigation in the Department
of Justice, at the head of which shall be a Director of Investigation.
All other functions now performed by the Bureau of Prohibition
are transferred to such divisions in the Department of Justice as in
the judgment of the Attorney General may be desirable.
SECTION 4.-Disbursement

The function of disbursement of moneys of the United States exercised by any agency is transferred to the Treasury Department and,
together with the Office of Disbursing Clerk of that Department, is

consolidated in a Division of Disbursement, at the head of which
shall be a Chief Disbursing Officer.

The Division of Disbursement of the Treasury Department is

authorized to establish local offices, or to delegate the exercise of its
functions locally to officers or employees of other agencies, according
as the interests of efficiency and economy may require.

4

CONSOLIDATION AND ABOLITION OF EXECUTIVE AGENCIES

CONSOLIDATION AND ABOLITION OF EXECUTIVE AGERCIES

SECTION 10.-Official Register

The Division of Disbursement shall disburse moneys only upon the

certification of persons by law duly authorized to incur obligations
upon behalf of the United States. The function of accountability for
improper certification shall be transferred to such persons, and no

The function of preparation of the Official Register is transferred
from the Bureau of the Cersus to the Civil Service Commission.

disbursing officer shall be held accountable therefor.

SECTION 5.-Claims by or against the United States

The functions of prosecuting in the courts of the United States
claims and demands by, and offenses against, the Government of the

SECTION 11.-Statistics of cities

The function of the Bureau of the Census of the Department of
Commerce of compiling statistics of cities under 100,000 population
is abolished for the period ending June 30, 1935.

United States, and of defending claims and demands against the
Government, and of supervising the work of United States attorneys,
marshals, and clerks in connection therewith, now exercised by any
agency or officer, are transferred to the Department of Justice.
As to any case referred to the Department of Justice for prosecution or defense in the courts, the function of decision whether and in

what manner to prosecute, or to defend, or to compromise, or to
appeal, or to abandon prosecution or defense, now exercised by any
agency or officer, is transferred to the Department of Justice.
For the exercise of such of his functions as are not transferred to the
Department of Justice by the foregoing two paragraphs, the Solicitor
of the Treasury is transferred from the Department of Justice to the
Treasury Department.
Nothing in this section shall be construed to affect the function of
any agency or officer with respect to cases at any stage prior to reference to the Department of Justice for prosecution or defense.
SECTION 6.-Insular courts

The United States Court for China, the District Court of the

United States for the Panama Canal Zone, and the District Court
of the Virgin Islands of the United States are transferred to the
Department of Justice.
SECTION 7.-Solicitors

The Solicitor for the Department of Commerce is transferred from
the Department of Justice to the Department of Commerce.
The Solicitor for the Department of Labor is transferred from the
Department of Justice to the Department of Labor.
SECTION 8.-Internal Revenue

The Bureaus of Internal Revenue and of Industrial Alcohol of the

Treasury Department are consolidated in a Division of Internal

SECTION 12.-Shipping Board

The functions of the United States Shipping Board, including those
over and in respect to the United States Shipping Board Merchant
Fleet Corporation, are transferred to the Department of Commerce,
and the United States Shipping Board is abolished.
SECTION 13.-National Screw Thread Commission

The National Screw Thread Commission is abolished, and its
records, property, facilities, equipment, and supplies are transferred
to the Department of Commerce
SECTION 14.-Immigration and Naturalization

The Bureaus of Immigration and of Naturalization of the Department of Labor are consolidated as an Immigration and Naturalization
Service of the Department of Labor, at the head of which shall be a
Commissioner of Immigration and Naturalization.
SECTION 15.-Vocational education

The functions of the Federal Board for Vocational Education are
transferred to the Department of the Interior, and the Board shall
act in an advisory capacity without compensation.
SECTION 16.-Apportionment of appropriations

The functions of making, waiving, and modifying apportionments
of appropriations are transferred to the Director of the Bureau of the
Budget

SECTION 17.-Coordinating Service

The Federal Coordinating Service is abolished.
SECTION 18

Revenue, at the head of which shall be a Commissioner of Internal
Revenue.

SECTION 9.-Assistant Secretary of Commerce

The Assistant Secretary of Commerce for Aeronautics shall be an
Assistant Secretary of Commerce and shall perform such functions
as the Secretary of Commerce may designate.

The following functions are abolished in part:
Cooperative vocational education and rehabilitation, 25 percent
thereof.

Payments for agricultural experiment stations, 25 percent thereof.
Cooperative agricultural extension work, 25 percent thereof
Endowment and maintenance of colleges for the benefit of agriculture and the mechanic arts, 25 percent thereof.

5

CONSOLIDATION AND ABOLITION OF EXECUTIVE AGENCIES

6

SECTION 19.-General provisions

Each agency, all the functions of which are transferred to or consolidated with another agency, is abolished.
The records pertaining to an abolished agency or & function disposed of, disposition of which is not elsewhere herein provided for,
shall be transferred to the successor. If there be no successor agency
and such abolished agency be within a department, said records shall
be disposed of as the head of such department may direct
The property, facilities, equipment, and supplies employed in the
work of an abolished agency or the exercise of a function disposed of,

disposition of which is not elsewhere herein provided for, shall, to
the extent required, be transferred to the successor agency. Other

such property, facilities, equipment, and supplies shall be transferred
to the Procurement Division.
All personnel employed in connection with the work of an abolished
agency or function disposed of shall be separated from the service of

the United States, except that the head of any successor agency,
subject to my approval, may, within a period of 4 months after
transfer or consolidation, reappoint any of such personnel required
for the work of the successor agency without reexamination or loss of
civil-service status.
SECTION 20.-Appropriations
Such portions of the unexpended balances of appropriations for any
abolished agency or function disposed of shall be transferred to the
successor agency as the Director of the Budget shall deem necessary.
Unexpended balances of appropriations for an abolished agency or
function disposed of, not so transferred by the Director of the Budget,
shall, in accordance with law, be impounded and returned to the
Treasury.

SECTION 21.-Definitions

As used in this orderAgency" means any commission, independent establishment
board, bureau, division, service, or office in the executive branch of

the Government
"Abolished agency" means any agency which is abolished, transferred, or consolidated.
"Successor agency' means any agency to which is transferred some
other agency or function, or which results from the consolidation of
other agencies or functions.

Function disposed of means any function eliminated or trans-

ferred.

SECTION 22.-Effective date

In accordance with law, this order shall become effective 61 days
from its date: Provided, That in case it shall appear to the President
that the interests of economy require that any transfer, consolidation,
or elimination be delayed beyond the date this order becomes effective, he may, in his discretion, fix a later date therefor, and he may
for like cause further defer such date from time to time.
FRANKLIN D. ROOSEVELT.

THE WHITE HOUSE, June 10, 1933.
o

32

COPY
EXECUTIVE ORDER

or CERTAIN PROVISION OF EXECUTIVE ORDER NO. 6166,

OF JUNE 10, 1933.

WIRETRAS it appears that the interests of economy require that

the transfers, consolidations, and eliminations provided for under
sections 1, 4, and 8 of Executive Order No. 6166, of June 10, 1933,
be delayed beyond the effective date of said order;
NON, THEREFORE, pursuant to the provisions of section 22 of said

order, I hereby order that, except as hereinafter provided, the
transfers, consolidations, and eliminations contemplated by sections
1 (except the abolition of the Federal Employment Stabilisation
Board), 4, and 8 of Executive Order No. 6166, of June 10, 1933, to-

gether with the operation of all other provisions of the said Order

in se far as they relate to any of the said sections, shall be dolayed mail December 31, 1933, Provided, That any transfer, consol-

idation, or elimination in whole or in part under any of the said
sections (except the abolition of the Federal Employment Stabilism-

tion Board) including my other provisions of the said Order in so
far as they relate to any of the said sections may be made operative
and in foree between August 10, 1933, and December 31, 1933, by order

of the Secretary of the Treasury, approved by the President.
FERANKLIN D. ROOSEVELT.

The White House,

July 27, 1983.
(6224)

33
EXECUTIVE ORDER

POSTPOMENT OF CERTAIN PROVISIONS OF EXECUTIVE ORDER NO. 6166
OF JUNE 10, 1933

WHEREAS, it appears that the interests of economy require

that certain transfers, consolidations, and eliminations pre-

vided for under sections 4 and 8 of Executive order No. 6166
of June 10, 1933, be further delayed beyond the effective date
of said order;
NOW, THEREFORE, pursuant to the provisions of section 22

of said order, I hereby order that, except as hereinafter provided, the transfers, consolidations, and eliminations con-

templated by sections 4 and 8 of Executive order NO. 6166 of
June 10, 1933, which are not effected prior to December 31,
1933, pursuant to Executive Order No. 6224, dated July 27, 1933,

together with the operation of all other provisions of Executive Order No. 6166, of June 10, 1933, insofar as they relate
to said sections 4 and 8, shall be further delayed until June
30, 1934: Provided, That any transfer, consolidation, or
elimination, in whole or in part, under said sections 4 and 8,
including any other provisions of the said order of June 10,
1935, insofar as they relate to sections 4 and 8 thereof, may
be made operative and in force between January 1, 1934, and

June so, 1954, by order of the Secretary of the Treasury, approved by the President.

FRANKLIN D. ROOSEVELT.

THE WHITE HOUSE,

December 28, 1933.

(No. 6540)

section 4: Disbursement
8: Internal Revenue

73D CONGRESS

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

2d Session

DOCUMENT

No. 281

EXECUTIVE ORDER CONSOLIDATING THE EXECUTIVE
AGENCIES ENGAGED IN ENFORCEMENT OF INTERNAL
REVENUE LAWS

MESSAGE
FROM

THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES
TRANSMITTING

AN EXECUTIVE ORDER CONSOLIDATING THE EXECUTIVE AGENCIES WHICH ARE ENGAGED IN THE ENFORCEMENT OF THE
INTERNAL REVENUE LAWS

MARCH 10, 1934.-Referred to the Committee on Expenditures in the Executive
Departments and ordered to be printed

To the Congress of the United States:

Pursuant to the provisions of section 1 of title III of the act of
March 20, 1933 (ch. 3, 48 Stat. 8, 16), I am transmitting herewith an
Executive order consolidating the executive agencies which are engaged in the enforcement of the internal revenue laws.
The need for such a consolidation at this time springs primarily
from the repeal of the eighteenth amendment. The tax and enforcement agencies of the Government should be reorganized in harmony
with the changes which have occurred in the laws relating to the manufacture, transportation, and sale of intoxicating liquors. The changes
made by this order will permit a more efficient administration of the
internal revenue laws as well as the laws carrying out the protective
features of the twenty-first amendment.
Because of the obvious desirability of accomplishing the proposed
changes at the earliest possible moment, I recommend that the order
be given consideration by Congress with a view to the enactment of a
Joint Resolution making its provisions immediately effective.
FRANKLIN D. ROOSEVELT.

THE WHITE HOUSE, March 10, 1934.

2

EXECUTIVE ORDER CONSOLIDATING EXECUTIVE AGENCIES

EXECUTIVE ORDER
CONSOLIDATION OF EXECUTIVE AGENCIES ENGAGED IN THE ENFORCE-

EXECUTIVE ORDER CONSOLIDATING EXECUTIVE AGENCIES

permits, and he shall prescribe the form of all applications, bonds,
permits, records, and reports under such acts.

MENT OF THE INTERNAL REVENUE LAWS

Whereas section 16 of the act of March 3, 1933 (ch. 212, 47 Stat.
1489, 1517), provides for reorganizations within the executive branch of
the Government: requires the President to investigate and determine

what reorganizations are necessary to effectuate the purposes of
section 16; and authorizes the President to make such reorganizations by Executive order; and
Whereas I have investigated the organization of the executive and
administrative agencies of the Government which are engaged in the
enforcement of the internal-revenue laws, and have determined that
a
consolidation of such agencies is necessary to accomplish the purposes of section 16;

3

TRANSFER OF OFFICIAL RECORDS AND PROPERTY

2 (a). The official records and papers on file in, and pertaining to
the business of, the Bureau of Industrial Alcohol, together with the
supplies, furniture, equipment, and other property of the United

States in use in such Bureau, are transferred to the Bureau of Internal
Revenue

(b) The official records and papers on file in the Department of
Justice pertaining to the functions transferred by this order to the
Commissioner of Internal Revenue, together with the supplies,
furniture, equipment, and other property of the United States in use
in said Department in connection with the performance of such functions, are transferred to the Bureau of Internal Revenue

Now, therefore, by vitue of and pursuant to the authority vested
in me by the aforesaid section 16 of the act of March 3, 1933, it is

TRANSFER OF PERSONNEL

hereby ordered as follows:

TRANSFER OF FUNCTIONS

1 (a). The Bureau of Industrial Alcohol and the Office of Commissioner of Industrial Alcohol are abolished, and the authority, rights,
privileges, powers, and duties conferred and imposed by law upon
the Commissioner of Industrial Alcohol are transferred to and shall
be held, exercised, and performed by the Commissioner of Internal
Revenue, and his assistants, agents, and inspectors, under the direction of the Secretary of the Treasury
(b) The authority, rights, privileges, powers, and duties conferred
and imposed upon the Attorney General by the act of May 27, 1930
(ch. 342, 46 Stat. 427), entitled "An act to transfer to the Attorney
General certain functions in the administration of the National Prohibition Act, to create a Bureau of Prohibition in the Department of
Justice, and for other purposes," so far as they are required to, or
may, be exercised and performed under existing law, are transferred
to and shall be held, exercised, and performed by the Commissioner
of Internal Revenue, and his assistants, agents, and inspectors, under
the direction of the Secretary of the Treasury: Provided, That the
Attorney General shall continue to exercise the power and authority
(a) to remit or mitigate forfeitures under the internal-revenue laws
and to determine liability for internal-revenue taxes and penalties,
in connection with violations of the National Prohibition Act occurring prior to the repeal of the eighteenth amendment, and (b) to institute suits upon any cause of action under the National Prohibition
Act or under the internal-revenue laws involving a violation of the
National Prohibition Act, arising prior to, and/or not affected by,
the repeal of the eighteenth amendment, and to compromise any such
cause of action before or after suit is brought: And provided further
That the Commissioner of Internal Revenue, subject to the approval
of the Secretary of the Treasury, shall prescribe all regulations under
the provisions of the National Prohibition Act, and all laws amendatory thereof or supplementary thereto, which were not rendered inoperative by the repeal of the eighteenth amendment, relating to

3. (a) The officers and employees employed in, or under the jurisdiction of, the Bureau of Industrial Alcohol, are transferred to the
Bureau of Internal Revenue, without change in classification or
compensation.

(b) The officers and employees employed in, or under the jurisdiction of, the Alcoholic Beverage Unit of the Division of Investigation,
Department of Justice, except those employed in, or under the jurisdiction of, the taxes and penalties section of said unit, are transferred
to the Bureau of Internal Revenue without change in classification
or compensation.

(c) Officers and employees transferred to the Bureau of Internal

Revenue hereunder, who do not already possess a competitive classified civil-service status, shall not acquire such status by reason of such
transfer, except upon recommendation by the Secretary of the Treasury to the Civil Service Commission, subject to such noncompetitive
tests of fitness as the Commission may prescribe; and no officer or

employee so transferred may be retained in the Bureau of Internal
Revenue without appropriate civil-service status for a period longer
than 60 days from the effective date of this order.
TRANSFER OF APPROPRIATIONS

4. The unexpended balances of appropriations for the Bureau of
Industrial Alcohol and the field service thereunder, and the unexpended balances of the appropriations made for salaries and expenses,

Bureau of Prohibition, Department of Justice, including the field

service thereof, insofar as may be required for the performance of the

functions transferred by this order to the Commissioner of Internal
Revenue, shall be transferred on the books of the Treasury Department to the appropriation entitled "Collecting the Internal Revenue"
which shall thereafter be available in the Bureau of Internal Revenue
as a single fund for expenditure for the purposes named in the laws
making the separate appropriations for "Salaries and expenses,
Bureau of Industrial Alcohol, Treasury Department "Salaries and

expenses, Bureau of Prohibition, Department of Justice" and

ORDER CONSOL-MAVING EXECUTIVE AGHNOTIS

(Collecting the internal revenue" respectively, and appropriations,
if any, made to the Bureau of Industrial Alonhol and the Department
of Justice, respectively, for the fiscal year 1935, for the performance
of the functions transferred by this order to the Bureau of Internal
Revenue shall likewise be transferred on the books of the Treasury
Department to the appropriation "Collecting the internal revenue
subject to the conditions herein set forth.
to

lemenal

louisian

add

GENERAL PROVISIONS

at

lo 5. Executive Orders Nos. 6166, 6224, and 6540, dated June 10.
1933, July 27, 1938, and December 28, 1933, respectively, are revoked

insolar as they are in conflict with the provisions of this order.
6. This order shall take effect upon the sixty-first calendar day
after
its transmission
accordance
with law. to Congress, unless otherwise determined in
THE WHITE HOUSE, March 10, 1934
-Nith out TODATO to its bazolams

FRANKLIN D. ROOSEVELT.

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34

March 4, 1935

H.M. Jr. had lunch with the President and upon his return to the office he called in Chief Morgan, Colonel Starling
and McReynolds. He told them that the President is very
anxious and nervous about the protection at the White House.
Chief Moran was very resentful of this criticism. He says
that the President gets every kind of protection and that
Gus Gennerick has been telling the President a lot of things
that are making him unnecessarily nervous and that if Gus
has any suggestions to make they ought to be made to him and
not to the President.
H.M., Jr. gave orders that every secret service man
should have a physical examination three times a year, should
have target practice regularly once a week, after he qualifies,
and if he does not qualify he should be removed; every man
should carry a tear gas outfit; machine guns should be put into
the White House with operators on duty at all times.

Chief Moran has been in his job for forty years and
therefore any new suggestions are just all wrong. H.M.,Jr.
has been most kind and patient because of his age - but very
emphatic about carrying out his orders insofar as protection
for the President is concerned.
H.M.Jr. told the President about his orders on "drinking"

and he was very much pleased.

34A
TREASURY DEPARTMENT

Washington
RELEASE UPON DELIVERY

3-2-35.

Press Service
No. 4-41

A speech to be delivered Monday, March 4, 1935, by the Secretary of
the Treasury, Henry Morgenthau, Jr., as part of an Anniversary Day
breadcast, arranged by the Solumbia Broadcasting System, to review

the first two years of President Roosevelt's Administration.

SECRETARY MORGENTHAU: I think I can best use the time that I have on this

Anniversary Day breadcast by telling a fow facts about the United States Treasury
and what it has been doing in the last two years.

I want to say right at the start of my talk that during the first year of the
period under review, the Treasury was under the able leadership of the late
William H. Woodin, Secretary of the Treasury from March, 1933, to the end of that
year. The country owes a great debt t4 the memory of Mr. Woodin for wise and

hereic service during a most difficult period.
The functions and activities of the Department fall under four general heads.

Under the first of these are the agencies primarily concerned with bringing into
the Treasury the funds with which to meet the expenses of the Government, and with

keeping the records of fiscal transactions. These units of the Treasury barrow
money by issuing securities, collect the taxes, pay the bills and keep the beaks.
The second group includes the six units which have pelice functions.

Through their investigating activities they protect your Government and you from
tax evasion, from fraud and decoit, and they guard against violations of laws
anacted for the protection of the revenues and monies of the Government.

The third group consists of our manufacturing plants. They make our coins,
print our paper currency, our bonds, our checks, our postage stamps and tax stamps.
They build our public buildings. They purchase supplies for the Government.

The protection of life and health are activities which fall under the fourth
heading.

34B
-2-

ANNOUNCER: This is a remarkable array cf activities for one Department of the

Government, Mr. Secretary, and I think it will be surorising to mest people.
Would you mind giving us just a glimpse of some of the work these agencies have
been doing in the last two years?
SECRETARY MORGENTHAU: I shall be glad to. Suppose we look first into the

office of the Treasurer, Mr. W.A. Julian. It is right here in this building.
The Treasurer cashes checks which are drawn on the Treasury. I will give you just

one instance of the size of his job. In the period of three months during which
the Civil Works Administration was spending its original allotment of
$400,000,000, the Treasurer cashed 58,000,000 checks drawn by the: Agency. Tc take

care of this sudden increase in the work of his office, the Treasurer hired a
thousand of the unemployed to run adding machines and help in clearing the checks.
The Treasurer, among his other duties, cashes the interest coupons which are
clipped from Government bonds on interest dates, and forwarded to the Treasury
for redemption.

On another floor is the man who has been called the Nation's biggest bookkeeper, Daniel W. Bell, the Commissioner of Accounts and Deposits. On his

books are kept approximately 8,000 accounts relating to the receipts, appropriations, and expenditures of all departments and establishments of the Government.

By centralizing this information and bringing payrell disbursing into the
Treasury, we have achieved greater efficiency and economy, and have made informa-

tion more promptly available te our citizens. I have demonstrated my belief
we owe a duty to the public to keep-them currently-informed as to our fiscal
activities. We have expanded and clarified the Daily Treasury Statement, which

gives the assets and liabilities, the receipts and expenditures of the Government. The Public Debt Statement has been improved both as to form and information.

34C
-3-

Once each month we publish a combined statement of the assets and liabilities of
the corporations and credit agencies in which the Givernment has a proprietary

interest and for whose obligations it has a contingent liability.
The Public Debt Service, hoaded by Commissioner William S. Broughten, has

had an extraerdinary record of activity in the last two years. The public debt
today stands at appreximately $28,500,000,000. During the past two years this
office has refunded some $15,000,000,000 of the public deht and has issued ever
$7,000,000,000 of Treasury obligations for new money.
ANNOUNCEL: What do you regard as the outstanding accomplishment of Government

financing during the past two years, Mr. Secretary?
SECRETARY MORGENTHAU: There is no question about that. The outstanding accom-

plishment of the two year period has been our ability to borrow this great amount
of new money, and to refund such a large amount of existing debt and at the same

time to reduce the average rate of interest paid on the whole dett. In the two
year period the average rate has been brought down by nearly half of one per cent.

The saving in interest to the Government by reason of this reduction is
$120,000,000 & year. The reason that the price of Government bonds has been

steadily going up is because the American perple have a feeling of complete
confidence in their Government in Washington.

When I came to the Treasury a little over a year ago, we had to pay 2-1/2
per. cent to borrow money for thirteen months. In sharp contrast, only the other
day we borrowed money for nine months at one-sixth of one per cent. This is ono
-

of many proof's tirt business is better.

Before passing on to the next subject, I want to be sure to draw your atten-

tion t the latest of our Treasury securities, the United States Savings bond,
whi ch are now on sale at some 14,000 post offices.

34D
Turning to our other source of funds, tax collection, I want to tell you how
they have increased, dus in part to better business, and in part to the fact that
the 73rd Congress stroped up many of the holes in the revenue system. We pursue

a fair and impartial attitude toward all tax debtors, but we are determined to
collect what is rightfully due the Government. We are also determined to protect
the taxpayers against unscrupuleus tax lawyers and accountants who feed off the
body of the Treasury.

The Bureau of Internal Revenue, under the direction of Commissioner Guy T.

Helvering, has made an enviable record. In 1932 it cost $2.17 to collect $100

of taxes. In 1934 it cost only $1.25 to collect $100 in taxes.
Included in the group of Treasury units which are concerned with fiscal
operations is the office of the Comptreller of the Currency, J.F.T. Q'Conner.
While it is net directly connected with financing the Government, it does form an
important line of contact between the Treasury and the private banking system of
the country.

In Mr. O'Cenner's office was centered the work of licensing banks following
the holiday of 1933. Since March, 1933, the Comptreller has been faced with three
major problems, the reepening of unlicensed national banks, the distribution of

dividends ta depositors in national banks closed for liquidation, and the
strengthening of the capital structures of all open national banks.
of the 1,400 national banks remaining unlicensed in March, 1933, it was

found possible to reerganize nearly 1,100 under old or new charters. Splendid
progress has been made in making available to depositers substantial pertiens of

their deposits tied up in closed and unlicensed Banks. Through cooperation with
the Reconstruction Finance Corperation, the Federal Government has added more than

$400,000,000 to the capital funds of our national banks in the form of preferred

stock, placing thosa institutions in better position to take care of the credit

34E
-5-

needs of their communities and lend to deserving borrowers.

In addit ion to these extraordinary duties, the Comptreller has carried on his
regular functions of examining the national banks, and enforcing the national
Lanking laws.

ANNOUNCER: Will you tell us something about the police activities of the Depart
ment, Mr. Secretary?
SECRETARY MORGENTHAU: There are six Treasury units whose jeb it is to protect the
revenues-and monies of the Government.

They are the Secret Service, headed by Chief W.H. Moran, the Customs Service,
under Commissioner James H. Moyle, the Coast Guard, commanded by Admiral H.G.

Hamlet,* the Narcotics Bureau under Commissioner H.J. Anslinger, the Alcohel Tax

Unit, supervised by Deputy Commissioner Arthur J. Mellett,*and the Intelligence
Unit of the Bureau of Internal Revenue, headed by Elmer L. Irey.
These agencies wage unceasing warfare by land and sea and air against
criminals who conspire to cheat Uncle Sam-and who, when they succeed in cheating

Uncle Sam, cheat you and me as well. Our men combat a particularly vicious and

heartless breed of public enemies-tax evaders, counterfeiters, smugglers, bootloggers, racksteers, gamblers and dope poddlers. Besides defrauding the Government, these criminals. sell poisonous liquor, pass bogus money, prey on the Foor

and prefit by the weakness of their follow man. You have every right to be proud
of the courage and loyalty your Treasury agents display in fighting these criminals.
ANNOUNCER: What are some of the famous cases which they have developed or solved,
Mr. Secretary?

SECRETARY MORGENTHAU: I cannet, of course, go into details for obvious reasons.

To publicize their accomplishments would be to warn present and potential evil-

deers. But I can speak of cases which have been "closed". It was our Internal
Revenue agents who sent A1 Capons to the penitentiary, and jailed pretenders to

34F
-6-

his crown in other cities. When I came to the Treasury there were five famous

gangsters on the Intelligence Unit's list of "men to get". One by one they have
been eliminated-John Lazia, the A1 Capone of Kansas City, Leon Gleckman, loading

racketeer of St. Paul, Waxey Gerdon, of New York, leading beer baren of the East,
Murray Humphreys of Chicago, successor to Capene, and Dutch Schultz of New York,

notorious liquer runner charged with many crimes.
The Coast Guard and Customs Service have smashed numerous rings which tried

to evade our laws. With their aid the Narcotics Bureau has curtailed quantity
smuggling of ferhidden drugs and narcotics. The Alcohol Tax Unit has carried on

a continuous campaign against bootleggers and illicit distillers, and the records

show that it is getting results. And this in spite of the fact that when the whole
task of collecting liquor taxes and suppressing tax evaders was Given to the

Treasury following repeal, we inherited along with it a tradition of fourteen
years of public disregard for law. Naturally it has taken time to break down
public prejudice against enforcement activities too often tainted by cerruption
and graft and to gain respect for and support of honest and straightferward efforts
to compel those who manufacture and sell liquer to pay taxes. A whole generation

had grown up with the idea that there is nothing unpatrietic about disrespect
for liquer laws. Wo honestly believe that We have made some progress in ever-

coming this prejudice on the part of the people. The handicap of half-hearted
attempts at enforcement during Prehibition is being slowly overceme.
During the dark days of Prohibition, there was no evidence of an honest

effort at enforcement. It is now a question of suppressing the tax-evader for
the benefit of the Government and in protection of the law-abiding maker and

dealer. With the cooperation of the public, we can and will succeed.
I have spoken of our manufacturing plants. One of these is the Bureau of
Engraving and Printing, directed by Mr. A.W. Hall. The Bureau prints our currency,

34G
-7-

our stamps and our bends. They are nor engaged in printing the United States
Savings Bonds.

Another is the Bureau of the Mint, under the direction of Mrs. Nellie Tayloo
ROSS. It mints our coins. The demand for coins during the last two years has

been heavier than at any time in our history. It has recently completed the
Herculean task of meving two and a half billion of gold from the San Francisco
mint to the mint at Denver, the largest body of the yellow metal ever to have
been moved so great a distance.

The duties of the Procurement Division, under Admiral C.J. Peoples, bring

it within this third group of Treasury activities. It supervises the construction of our public buildings.
ANNOUNCER: One more question, Mr. Secretary. You spoke of the protection of life

and health as a Treasury activity. To what did you refer?
SECRETARY MORGENTHAU: The Public Health Service, under Surgeon General H.S.

Cumming, safeguards us from the spread of disease and epidemic. It engages in
constant research and experiment, and in the past two years had made vast

contributions to our store of medical knowledge. Whether it be an epidemic of

dyssentery in Chicago, sleeping sickness in St. Louis, infantile paralysis in
California, or Rocky Mountain fever in some Eastern section, the Treasury dectors

are on the jet.
The Coast Guard, too, has a splendid record for saving and pretecting lives.
This agency, sometimes called the Red Cross of the Sea has rescued some 12,000

persons from positions of peril at sea during the last two years, and has
assisted in saving property worth millions of dellars.
May, 1937: Present Head: - Secret Service - Frank J. Wilson; Coast Guard Admiral R. R. Waesohe; Alcohol Tax Unit, Deputy Commissioner - Stewart Berkshire.

34 H
TREASURY DEPARTMENT

Washington
FOR RELEASE, MORNING NEWSPAPERS,

MONDAY, MARCH 4, 1935.

Press Service
No. 4-35

3/2/35

Secretary of the Treasury Morgenthau today announced an offering of
20-25 year 2-7/8 percent Treasury bonds of 1955-60 in exchange for Fourth

Liberty Loan 4-1/4 percent bonds of 1933-38 called for redemption on

April 15, 1935 (Third-called Fourth 4-1/4's): and 5 year 1-5/8 percent
Treasury notes of Series A-1940 in exchange for Treasury notes of Series

C-1935, maturing March 15, 1935. The two offerings are entirely on an
exchange basis, and the issues of bonds and notes will be limited to the
amount of Third-called Fourth 4-1/4's and Treasury notes of Series C-1935,

respectively, tendered in payment and accepted. Cash subscriptions will
not be received. About $1,850,000,000 of the Fourth Liberty Loan bonds

are included in the third call for redemption on April 15, 1935, and about
$528,000,000 of the Treasury notes of Series C-1935 mature on March 15, 1935.

The Treasury bonds, now offered in exchange for Third-called Fourth

4-1/4's, will be dated March 15, 1935 and will bear interest from that
date at the rate of 2-7/8 percent per annum payable semiannually. They
will mature March 15, 1960, but may be redeemed at the option of the United
States on and after March 15, 1955.

The Treasury notes of Series A-1940, now offered in exchange for
Treasury notes of Series C-1935 maturing March 15, 1935, will be dated

March 15, 1935, and will bear interest from that date at the rate of 1-5/8
percent per annum, payable semiannually. They will mature March 15, 1940

and will not be subject to call for redemption prior to that date.

-2-

As more specifically set forth in the official circulars issued today, the
Treasury bonds will be exempt, both as to principal and interest, from all taxation,
except estate or inheritance taxes, surtaxes, excess-profits and war-profits taxes;
the interest on bonds (issued under the Second Liberty Bond Act) up to $5,000

total principal-amount under one ownership will be exempt from all taxation; and

the Treasury notes will be exempt, both as to principal and interest, from all
taxation except estate or inheritance taxes.
The Treasury bonds will be issued in two forms, hearer bonds with interest
coupons attached, and bonds registered both as to principal and interest; both
forms will be issued in the denominations of $50, $100, $500, $1,000, $5,000,
$10,000 and $100,000. The Treasury notes will be issued only in bearer form
with coupons attached, and in the denominations of $100, $500, $1,000, $5,000,
$10,000 and $100,000.

Applications will be received at the Federal reserve banks and branches at
the Treasury Department, Washington. Banking institutions generally will handle
applications for subscribers, but only the Federal reserve banks and the Treasury
Department are authorized to act as official agencies.
Applications for Treasury bonds of 1955-60 should be accompanied by a like
face amount of Third-called Fourth 4-1/4's tendered in payment, and applications
for Treasury notes of Series A-1940 should be accompanied by a like face amount of
Treasury notes of Series C-1935 maturing March 15, 1935 tendered in payment.

Subject to the reservations set forth in the official circulars, all exchange
subscriptions for Treasury bonds in payment of which Third-called Fourth 4-1/4's
are tendered, and all subscriptions for Treasury notes of Series A-1940 in payment

of which Treasury notes of Series C-1935 are tendered, will be allotted in full.

-3-

Interest on Third-called Fourth 4-1/41s tendered in payment for 2-7/8
percent Treasury bonds of 1955-60 will be paid up to March 15, 1935. In the
case of coupon bonds, which must be surrendered with coupons dated April 15, 1935,

and all subsequent coupons attached, this accrued interest to March 15, 1935,

will be paid to the subscriber. In the case of registered bonds a different
procedure is necessary. Because of the large number of registered bonds it
would not be feasible for the registered accounts to be adjusted to take account

of exchanges in time to assure different payment of interest on April 15 with
respect to registered bonds which have been exchanged. Accordingly, to all

holders of record on March 15, 1935, of registered Fourth 4-1/4's checks will

be mailed for interest on their registered bonds covering the full six months
period from October 15, 1934 to April 15, 1935. It will therefore be necessary
for holders to accompany the tender of their registered bonds for exchange with
payment of an amount equal to the interest on their bonds from March 15 to April
15, 1935.

The present offering of 2-7/8 percent Treasury bonds of 1955-60 affords

the holders of the Third-called Fourth 4-1/4's an opportunity to exchange their
bonds for other long term bonds of the United States. The holders of the third
called bonds who wish to take advantage of the present exchange offering should

act promptly. No further exchange offering will be made to holders of these
called bonds, and if such bonds are not exchanged under the present offering,
they should be presented for redemption on April 15, 1935.

The texts of the official circulars follow:

2-7/8 PERCENT TREASURY BONDS OF 1955-60

March 4, 1935.

Treasury Department Circular No. 531
Public Debt Service

The Secretary of the Treasury, pursuant to the authority of the Second Liberty
Bond Act, approved September 24, 1917, as amended, for refunding purposes, invites

subscriptions from the people of the United States, for two and seven-eighths
per cent bonds of the United States, designated Treasury bonds of 1955-60, in
payment of which only Fourth Liberty Loan 4-1/4 per cent bonds of 1933-38 included

in the third call for redemption on April 15, 1935 (hereinafter referred to as
1

Third-called Fourth 4-1/4's) may be tendered.

Treasury bonds of 1955-60 will

be issued at par and accrued interest, if any, and Third-called Fourth 4-1/4's
will he received in payment at par, with an adjustment of accrued interest as of
March 15, 1935, on the Third-called Fourth 4-1/4's so received. The amount of

the offering will be limited to the amount of Third-called Fourth 4-1/4's tendered
and accepted. Fourth Liberty Loan bonds not included in the third call for
redemption on April 15, 1935, will not be accepted for exchange under this
2

circular.

1 Pursuant to the third call for partial redemption (see Department Circular No.
525, dated October 12, 1934) all outstanding Fourth Liberty Loan 4-1/4 per cent
bonds of 1933-38 bearing serial numbers ending in 5, 6, or 7 (in the case of permanent coupon bonds preceded by the distinguishing letter E, F, or G, respectively)
have been called for redemption on April 15, 1935, on which date interest on such
bonds will cease.

2 First-called Fourth 4-1/4's (which ceased to bear interest on April 15, 1934)
bear serial numbers ending in 9, o, or 1 (in the case of permanent coupon bonds

preceded by the distinguishing letter J, K, or A, respectively), Second-called
Fourth 4-1/4's (which ceased to bear interest on October 15, 1934) bear serial

numbers ending in 2 or 8 (in the case of permanent coupon bonds preceded by the

distinguishing letter B or H, respectively), and uncalled Fourth 4-1/4's bear

serial numbers ending in 3 or 4 (in the case of permanent coupon bonds preceded by

the distinguishing letter C or D, respectively).

-2-

Description of Bonds

The bonds will be dated March 15, 1935, and will bear interest from that
date at the rate of two and seven-eighths per cent per annum, payable semiannually,
on September 15, 1935, and thereafter on March 15 and September 15 in each year

until the principal amount becomes payable. They will mature March 15, 1960, but
may be redeemed at the option of the United States on and after March 15, 1955,

in whole or in part, at par and accrued interest, on any interest day or days,
on four months' notice of redemption given in such manner as the Secretary of the

Treasury shall prescribe. In case of partial redemption the bonds to be redeemed
will be determined by such method as may be prescribed by the Secretary of the

Treasury. From the date of redemption designated in any such notice, interest on
the bonds called for redemption shall cease.

The bonds shall be exempt, both as to principal and interest, from all
taxation now or hereafter imposed by the United States, any State, or any of the

possessions of the United States, or by any local taxing authority, except (a)
estate or inheritance taxes, and (b) graduated additional income taxes, commonly

known as surtaxes, and excess-profits and war-profits taxes, now or hereafter
imposed by the United States, upon the income or profits of individuals, partnerships, associations, or corporations. The:interest on an amount of bonds
authorized by the Second Liberty Bond Act, approved September 24, 1917, as
amended, the principal of which does not exceed in the aggregate $5,000, owned

by any individual, partnership, association, or corporation, shall be exempt from
the taxes provided for in clause (b) above.
The bonds will be acceptable to secure deposits of public moneys, and will

bear the circulation privilege only to the extent provided in the act approved
July 22, 1932, as amended. They will not be entitled to any privilege of
conversion.

-3-

Bearer bonds with interest coupons attached, and bonds registered as to

principal and interest, will be issued in denominations of $50, $100, $500,
$1,000, $5,000, $10,000 and $100,000. Provision will be made for the interchange
of bonds of different denominations and of coupon and registered bonds, and for

the transfer of registered bonds under rules and regulations prescribed by the
Secretary of the Treasury.

The bonds will be subject to the general regulations of the Treasury
Department, now or hereafter prescribed, governing United States bonds.
Application and Allotment
Applications will be received at the Federal reserve banks and branches and

at the Treasury Department, Washington. Banking institutions generally will
handle applications for subscribers, but only the Federal reserve banks and the
Treasury Department are authorized to act as official agencies. The Secretary of

the Treasury reserves the right to close the books as to any or all subscriptions
or classes of subscriptions at any time without notice.
The Secretary of the Treasury reserves the right to reject any subscription,

in whole or in part, to allet less than the amount of bonds applied for, to make
alletments in full upon applications for smaller amounts and to make reduced

allotments upon, or to reject, applications for larger amounts, to make classified
allotments or to make alletments upon a graduated scale, or to adopt any or all of
said methods or such other methods of alletment and classification of alletments

as shall be deemed by him to be in the public interest; and his action in any

or all of these respects shall be final. Subject to these reservations, all
subscriptions will be alletted in full. Allotment notices will he sent out
promptly upon allotment.
Terms of Payment

Payment at par and accrued interest, if any, for ronds allotted hereunder

-4
must be made or completed on or before March 15, 1935, or on later alletment,

and may be made only in Third-called Fourth 4-1/4's, which will be accepted at
par with an adjustment of accrued interest thereon as of March 15, 1935, and should

accompany the subscription. If any subscription is rejected, in whole or in part,
the Third-called Fourth 4-1/4's tendered therewith and not accepted will be
returned to the subscriber.
Coupon bonds.- Third-called Fourth 4-1/4's in coupon form tendered in payment
should have coupons dated April 15, 1935, as well as all subsequent coupons
3

attached, and accrued interest from October 15, 1934, to March 15, 1935, will

be

paid to the subscribers.

Registered bonds.- As checks for interest covering the full six months
period from October 15, 1934, to April 15, 1935, will be issued on April 15, 1935,
to helders of record on March15, 1935, of Third-called Fourth 4-1/4's in registered
form, tenders of such registered bonds hereunder must be accompanied by payment

of an amount equal to the interest to accrue thereon from March 15 tn April 15,
4

1935.

Surrender of Third-Called Fourth 4-1/4's on Exchange
Coupon bonds.- Third-called Fourth 4-1/4's in coupon form tendered in exchange
for Treasury bonds offered hereunder, should be presented and surrendered to a
Federal reserve bank or to the Treasurer of the United States, and should accompany

the application. Coupons dated April 15, 1935, and all coupons bearing dates subsequent to April 15, 1935, should be attached to such coupon bonds when surrendered,
and if any such coupons are missing, the application must be accompanied by cash
5

payment equal to the face amount of the missing coupons. The bonds must be
3 Accrued- interest at 4-1/4 per cent from October 15 1934, to March 15, 1935, on
$1,000 Third-called Fourth 4-1/4's (151 days) is $17.8304945.
4 Interest from March 15 to April 15, 1935, on $1,000 Third-called Fourth 4-141
(31 days) is $3.6195055.
5 The final coupon attached tn temporary coupon bonds became due on October 15,

1920. The holders of any such temporary bonds which are included in the third

call for partial redemption on April 15, 1935, will receive the past due interest

from October 15, 1920, if such bonds are tendered for exchange under this circular.

-5-

delivered at the expense and risk of the holder. Facilities for transportation
of bonds by registered mail insured may be arranged between incorporated banks
and trust companies and the Federal reserve banks, and holders may take advantage

of such arrangements when available, utilizing such incorporated banks and trust
companies as their agents. Incorporated banks and trust companies are not agents

of the United States under this circular.
Registered bonds.- Third-called Fourth 4-1/4's in registered form tendered in
exchange for Treasury bonds offered hereunder should be assigned by the registered

payee or assigns thereof in accordance with the general regulations of the Treasury
Department governing assignments for transfer or exchange in one of the forms

hereafter set forth, and thereafter should be presented and surrendered with the
application to a Federal reserve bank or to the Treasury Department, Division of
Loans and Currency, Washington. The bonds must be delivered at the expense and

risk of the holder. If Treasury bonds are desired registered in the same name as
the Third-called Fourth 4-1/4's surrendered, the assignment should be to"The
Secretary of the Treasury for exchange for Treasury bonds of 1955-60"; if Treasury
bonds are desired registered in another name, the assignment should be to
"The Secretary of the Treasury for exchange for Treasury bonds of 1955-60 in the
name of

; if Treasury bonds in coupon form are

desired, the assignment should be to "The Secretary of the Treasury for exchange
for Treasury bonds of 1955-60 in coupon form to be delivered to

".

General Provisions

As fiscal agents of the United States, Federal Reserve banks are authorized
and request to receive subscriptions, to make allotments on the basi3 and up
to the amounts indicated by the Secretary of the Treasury to the Federal reserve

banks of the respective districts, to issue alletment notices, to receive payment

-6-

for bonds allotted, t make delivery of bonds on full-paid subscriptions allotted,
and they may issue interim receipts pending delivery of the definitive bonds.
The Secretary of the Treasury may at any time, or from time to time,
prescribe supplemental or amondatory rules and regulations governing the offering
which will be communicated promptly to the Federal reserve banks.

HENRY MORGENTHAU, JR.,

Secretary of the Treasury.

1-5/8 PERCENT TREASURY NOTES OF SERIES A-1940

Treasury Department Circular No. 532
Public Debt Service

March 4, 1935.

The Secretary of the Treasury, pursuant to the authority of the Second
Liberty Bond Act, approved September 24, 1917, as amended, invites subscriptions,

at par, from the people of the United States, for one and five-eighths percent
notes of the United States, designated Treasury notes of Series A-1940, in payment of which only Treasury notes of Series C-1935, maturing March 15, 1935,

may be tendered. The amount of the offering will be limited to the amount of
Treasury notes of Series C-1935 tendered and accepted.
Description of Notes

The notes will be dated March 15, 1935, and will bear interest from
that date at the rate of one and five-eighths percent per annum, payable semiannually, on September 15, 1935, and thereafter on March 15 and September 15

in each year. They will mature March 15, 1940, and will not be subject to

call for redemption prior to maturity.
The notes shall be exempt, both as to principal and interest, from
all taxation (except estate or inheritance taxes) now or hereafter imposed
by the United States, any State, or any of the possessions of the United

States, or by any local taxing authority.
The notes will be accepted at par during such time and under such rules

and regulations as shall be prescribed or approved by the Secretary of the
Treasury in payment of income and profits taxes payable at the maturity of the
notes.

The notes will be acceptable to secure deposits of public moneys, but

will not bear the circulation privilege.

2-

Bearer notes with interest coupons attached will be issued in denominations of $100, $500, $1,000, $5,000, $10,000 and $100,000. The notes will

not

be issued in registered form.
Application and Allotment

Applications will be received at the Federal reserve banks and branches
and at the Treasury Department, Washington. Banking institutions generally

will handle applications for subscribers, but only the Federal reserve banks
and the Treasury Department are authorized to act as official agencies. The

Secretary of the Treasury reserves the right to close the books as to any or

all subscriptions or classes of subscriptions at any time without notice.
The Secretary of the Treasury reserves the right to reject any sub-

scription, in whole or in part, to allot less than the amount of notes applied
for, to make allotments in full upon applications for smaller amounts and to
make reduced allotments upon, or to reject, applications for larger amounts,
to make classified allotments or to make allotments upon a graduated scale, or
to adopt any or all of said methods or such other methods of allotment and

classification of allotments as shall be deemed by him to be in the public

interest; and his action in any or all of these respects shall be final. Sub-

ject to these reservations, all subscriptions will be allotted in full.
Allotment notices will be sent out promptly upon allotment.
Payment

Payment at par for notes allotted hereunder must be made or completed

on or before March 15, 1935, or on later allotment, and may be made only in
2-1/2 percent Treasury notes of Series C-1935, maturing March 15, 1935, which
will be accepted at par and should accompany the subscription.

3-

General Provisions

As fiscal agents of the United States, Federal reserve banks are authorized and requested to receive subscriptions, to make allotments on the basis
and up to the amounts indicated by the Secretary of the Treasury to the Federal

reserve banks of the respective districts, to issue allotment notices, to
receive payment for notes allotted, to make delivery of notes on full-paid
subscriptions allotted, and they may issue interim receipts pending delivery

of the definitive notes.
The Secretary of the Treasury may at any time, or from time to time,
prescribe supplemental or amendatory rules and regulations governing the

offering, which will be communicated promptly to the Federal reserve banks.

HENRY MORGENTHAU, JR.

Secretary of the Treasury.

34d
TREASURY DEPARTMENT

Washington
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE,

Monday, March 4, 1935.

Press Service
No. 4-42

More than $6,000,000 worth of United States Savings Bonds were sold in the

first day and a half of their sale, according to preliminary reports which
reached the Post Office Department today. Actual sales reported by 4,000 post

offices amounted to $5,520,000, but the 10,000 post offices still to be heard from
are expected to bring the total above $6,000,000. As this figure represents the
purchase price, it means that the maturity value of the bonds sold amounts to
about $8,000,000.

Sales would have been larger, according to Post Office officials, if the
supply of bonds had not been exhausted in many places early on Friday, the first
day of the offering to the public. Many purchasers showed a preference for
denominations which were not in stock or were soon sold, the $25 and $1000 units

apparently proving the most popular. In response to specific requests for
additional supplies, the Post Office Department has shipped $10,500,000 worth of

bonds in addition to the original consignments.
Contrary to expectations, the larger denominations seemed to be most popular

in small towns and cities, and the $25 bond sold better in the metropolitan centers. Post Office officials believed that the demand for $500 and $1000 bonds
came from people with accumulated savings, and that the smaller denominations will

have a better sale in the long run. Although preliminary reports are not detailed,
it is believed that the average amount invested will be about $200.
The new type of savings bonds attracted all classes of customers, according to
postmasters' reports. In many small cities and towns banks and corporations took
the maximum of $10,000 which is the total any individual or corporation may buy in
a single calendar year. On the other hand, many women and children bought the $25

-2-

bond, which costs $18.75, with pennies and other coins poured out on post office
counters and windows from bags and banks.

Many people bought bonds for their children and ;rand-children, as did
President Roosevelt when he purchased the first six bonds of the $25 denomination.

Others had the bonds made payable to beneficiaries by writing in the latter's
names along with their own. The majority of purchasers preferred to take the
bonds with them, and did not avail themselves of the Government's offer to safeguard them.

Fifty leading cities accounted for $2,895,035.50, or almost half of the total.
This figure does not give any true indication of the division of sales as between
rural and urban sections, however, because many large cities not included in the

list of fifty bought large amounts. In general, reports indicated that the
bonds sold better in the West than in the East.

New York City led in sales with a total of $505,134.75. The New York total
includes sales of $91,697.25 in Brooklyn, which is a separate post office from that
in Manhattan. If the New York total is divided as between the two post offices,
then Chicago gains first place with a total of $472,275 and Detroit stands third
with $413,519.

Sales in some of the other large cities were as follows: Cleveland,
$103,822.50; St. Louis, $103,143.75; Boston, $97,818.75; Kansas City, $94,443.75;
Cincinnati, $90,575; Washington, D.C. $86,288; Minncapolis, $78,125; Toledo,
$72,243.75; Philadelpria, $62,781.25; Los Angeles, $58,968.75; Omaha, $58,800;

Dallas, $50,800; Denver, $43,143.75; Baltimore, $41,684.25; San Francisco,
$41,375; Louisville, $39,150; Columbus, O., $37,556.25; Pittsburgh, $32,068.75;
New Orloans, $28,200; Dayton, $28,143.75, Indianapolis, 328,125; Jacksonville,
$28,031.25; Milwaukee, $26,450; Portland, Ore., $23,456.25.

35
UNITED STATES SENATE

Committee on

Post Offices and Post Roads
March 6, 1935.

Hon. Henry Morgenthau, Jr.,
Secretary of the Treasury,
Washington, D. C.
My dear Mr. Secretary:

Enclosed I hand you a copy of a letter which
Senator Long read into the Congressional Record today.
Please note the charges with reference to
your Department. Will you be good enough to furnish the
Senate Committee on Post Offices and Post Roads, if convenient, by one o'clock tomorrow, Thursday, March 7th, with
such statement as you may care to make in reply.
Very sincerely yours,
(Signed) Kenneth McKellar
Chairman.

36
March 6, 1935.

To the Committee on

Post Offices and Post Roads,
Washington, D. C.
Gentlemen:

In response to the letter received from your
Chairman, Senator McKellar, asking for information as
to names of witnesses and what they would testify
relative to James A. Farley, and his connections and
transactions handled under and with his authority, I
beg leave to submit the following:
Your Committee, I am sure, on reflection will
not come to the conclusion that I should expose all
witnesses and persons who are prepared to give testimony
with regard to Mr. Farley, but who must of necessity be

protected if there is to be an investigation.

Further, some of these witnesses have asked

that they be called and placed under oath before their

names are in any manner disclosed.

Further, surely your committee will understand
that to a large extent the verification of the charges
which I make and others which could be made, would be
shown from public and private records, the production and
examination of which would be asked in ordinary course.
However, in order that this committee may know
that to some extent I can offer to be specific, I state the
following which I expect to produce and prove:

1. Witnesses: Officers of the concerns listed

on the building directory at 205 East Forty-Second Street,
as occupying office No. 1701 (being the private headquarters
of James A. Farley), to show that more than twenty-odd concerns there operating, including six holding companies, have
been organized, combined and affiliated for practically the
sole purpose of transacting and dealing in matters with which

Page #2 - March 6, 1935.
Post Office & Post Roads Committee.

37

the United States Government is identified for the purpose
of making private profit, a large part of which inures to
James A. Farley, in violation of four criminal statutes of
the United States insofar as concerns said Farley; said
witnesses to prove the said purpose of concerns affiliated
with said Farley and occupying space in his office by
reason of the same, and that they were in position of
financial bankruptcy price to Farley's ascendency and since
that time have become financially affluent; to prove that
Farley interposed his brother-in-law as a poor simulation
as the head of concerns, and that any pretense to show the

disposition of his interests is a further simulation; to

prove that through the various concerns there enumerated as
affiliated with James A. Farley, contracts for materials
have been listed in advance of the awarding of contracts
by the United States Government, and that contracts to low
bidders have been refused until the bids could be awarded

to firms buying materials from the concerns of the said
James A. Farley. In this connection the officers and records

of Stewart & Company, of Driscoll and Company and of Severin
& Company will be produced. The testimony of Commissioner
Robert Moses of New York, and the data which he has assembled

will be called for the purpose of proving such sales have
been made by firms with which Farley is identified, of the
appropriation of funds on the jobs where Farley's firms were
furnishers of materials, for the expansion of sub-divisions
under the guise of being projects for slum removal; for the
paying of excessive prices for property and retaining its
frontage so its enhanced value may be enjoyed by interests
with which Farley is affiliated, even after the work has
been done and the development made. Numerous witnesses
do not here mention will be produced to show, along with
public records, that each and every appointment, directly or
indirectly had the approval of Farley if the same were connected with the building projects above mentioned.
We further expect to show from said witnesses and
the production of their records, papers and accounts, that
these concerns and persons have manipulated manifold market
transactions, reaping large profits, by taking advantage of
information which could only be had by one close to the
authority of government and which would have made them aware
of sudden falls and rises on exchanges.
2. Witness "A" and if necessary Witness "B"
whom we expect to testify that an important official of the
Baltimore & Ohio Railroad previously with no connection with
I

Page #3 - March 6, 1935.
Post Office & Post Roads Committee.

38

James A. Farley, received a telephone call from the said
Farley, informing him that he desired him to support one
Clem Shaver for the United States Senate from West Virginia.
The records of the Reconstruction Finance Corporation will
show that about the time there had been pending, and for
causes otherwise unexplained, there had been held up a
decision relative to a loan to be made to the Baltimore
& Ohio Railroad for approximately fifty million dollars.
Witness "A". and if necessary Witness "B". to further
testify that party called by said Farley hesitated, hoping
the loan would come through, but finally disclosed that
action on the same was held in abeyance and that he had
no way to dodge the responsibility, but would have to
declare for Shaver in accordance with Farley's instructions, and immediately upon so doing, the Reconstruction

Finance Corporation loan of $52,000,000. was announced.

3. While the report of the Secretary of Interior
contractors in matters wherein the P.W.A. is participating,
states they have no records showing contractors and sub-

none the less the "Manual for Engineer Inspectors, Inspection
Division P.W.A., July 3, 1934", on pages 25 and 26 requires
the pay rolls, unpaid bills, invoices, vouchers, etc., for
both materials furnished and persons hired, from contractors,
sub-contractors, on plant equipment, rental and maintenance,
bond and insurance premiums, and requiring the same to be
neatly arranged and forwarded to the Director of the Inspection Division at Washington for final audit. By reason of
the neglect of the Secretary of the Interior to locate such
source wherefrom information might be had, we expect to
call for production of such papers and their examination.
It is commented on in said Manual for Engineer
Inspectors, that a break-down report is required whereby
everything is segregated to the smallest item and units,

and if it is too difficult for same to be examined by the
Secretary of the Interior, and he is not so fully aware of
the exact concerns and firms with which James A. Farley is
identified, as to recognize the connection with firms and
items found on said rolls, we propose to examine the same
and orderly and regularly ascertain information that may

be disclosed on such matters as are not forwarded by Mr. Ickes,
and as to which witnesses whom we will not mention, have
given us to understand do exist.

That nearly all engineers of influence in charge
of and supervising public works or in which the United States
Government is in any manner concerned, is engineered through
a combination which the said Farley has effected through the
firm of Stone & Webster, who are operating the various Farley
firms above named and mentioned, have formed a network of
supervision of projects to inure to the advantage and control

Page #4 - March 6, 1935.
Post Office & Post Roads Committee.

39

of said Farley, extending even to the N.R.A. and its functions.
Examination of the records of said concerns will bear out said
facts. Witnesses whose names cannot be given, will be offered
for said purpose.
4. Letters, checks, vouchers and witnesses, including
Mr. Edwin P. Knotts and others, to show that Clyde 0. Eastus,
now United States Attorney in Texas, while in Washington, D. C.,
in the month of April, 1933, arranged for his appointment as
said United States Attorney in consultation with Mr. Farley,
wired Edwin P. Knott and otherwise gave to understand that the
said Edwin P. Knott's case was being arranged through Mr. Farley,
provided said Edwin P. Knotts wired immediately $1,000. to go
to Mr. Farley for politics; that in connection with the said
matter, a telegram was sent by said Eastus saying:
"Everything looks good."

And at another time the said Eastus wired, saying:
"Case continued. Must have one thousand

dollars I wired you about Saturday. Wire

now and I don't mean maybe.

And when the said Knotts sent the money requested, the same was

acknowledged in writing by the said James A. Farley. Later the
said Eastus was made United States Attorney and assured the said
Knotts that matters were going all right, even suggesting that
he enter a plea of guilty, which he assured the said Knotts
would be a mere formality, but upon securing the said plea, having already turned the money over to Farley, the said Knotts
was left to the mercies and sent to jail. The witnesses to swear
to these matters came to Washington and interviewed me, and while
I did not announce their names, but gave certain facts about it
on the floor of the Senate, when they had returned to their
homes they were immediately set upon by Post Office Inspectors
sent there through the effort of James A. Farley, giving them a
scare, their records and papers were called for, and all such
manner of things done as to prevent the disclosure of the facts
and to put said Farley in position to suppress development of
the truth. These witnesses inform me they are standing firm,
regardless of such efforts, but this should be a fair reason
why this committee should not require too many disclosures be-

fore investigation starts.

5. Witnesses Richard M. Atkinson, former Attorney
General in the State of Tennessee; Wayne Williams, former
United States Attorney in the State of Tennessee; and A. V.
McLane and many others, including four former members of a

United States grand jury in the State of Tennessee, who will
testify that in the affairs of the American National Bank in
Nashville, Tennessee, one Paul N. Davis and his brother,

Page #5 - March 6, 1935.
Post Office & Post Roads Committee.

40

Norman Davis, organized many groups for floating and financing matters and concerns, including one called the American

National Company; that through multifarious violations of
the law, stockholders of the bank were caused to lose large
sums of money; that the said multifarious concerns organized
and floated through the said banks blew up in smoke with a
terrible loss to everybody except the Davis brothers and
their inside associates; that hundreds of forgeries, erasures,
false statements, publications and representations were made
by the said Davises and their associates; some of the same
were published and some were sent to Government agencies, and
that as a result thereof, prosecutions were being instituted;
that the government started on the prosecutions and the
Department of Justice in Washington and the United States
Attorney in Nashville declared that indictments must be had
immediately; that there suddenly stepped into the picture
James A. Farley, who immediately began to maneuver the
personnel and conduct of the personnel of those connected

with the Department of Justice having the matter in hand,
both in person and through agents whom he selected, and as
a result thereof on the eve of the matter being presented
to the United States Grand Jury in Nashville, the United
States Attorney was removed and a special man sent at
Farley's instance from Washington, D. C., who went before
the United States Grand Jury and made a long and vigorous
speech as to the harm that it would do to have the indivi-

duals guilty of violating the law indicted; that said

agent after making said address to the Grand Jury for more
than one hour, called several witnesses to be heard, interfered with their testimony and threw the matter out with-

in a day's time. That the said witnesses have in their

possession and have exhibited to me, Huey P. Long, photostats
and innumerable documents and records and point to the source
where others may be had, showing the admitted state of affairs,

showing rampant violations of the law, protected in the

manner aforesaid.

6. That further to prove the extent of the said

Farley's control of the Department of Justice and the purposes
to which it is manipulated, that when a gangster was about
to be indicted in Kansas City by the United States grand
jury, appeal was made to Farley to prevent the same and Farley
took the same in hand, upturned the course of justice, caused
agents to be sent to Kansas City, so much so that the grand
jury was informed that it could not indict the party, whereupon grand jurors went into open court and informed the court
of said interference, whereupon the court instructed the jury
it could return the indictment, which was done and conviction
resulted. That T. J. Pendergast and James A. Farley will be
called to substantiate statements heretofore made, admit the
foregoing to be true, and further that records of the Department of Justice will be searched, proving said state of

Page #6 - March 6, 1935.
Post Office & Post Roads Committee.

41

affairs.
7. That witnesses have been hounded, telephones
have been tapped, every device and scare cloud used to brow-

beat and intimidate witnesses against the production of
such facts as are above disclosed, and it should not be the
purpose of the committee to now require same. If investigation is ordered, proof will follow in rapid consequence.
Respectfully submitted to you in my humble and
official capacity, and for the cause of public good in
this country,
Sincerely,
(Signed) Huey P. Long
U. S. SENATOR.

HPL:EJC

42
February 28, 1935
MEMORANDUM FOR THE FILES:

On February 25, Mr. Foley, Director of the Legal Division
of the Public Works Administration, called me on the telephone
and said that he had been asked by the Secretary of the Treasury
to take up with me the result of a conference at the White House,
held on February 22. He said that he had the records and suggested that I call at his office. I did so about noon and he
and a Mr. O'Connell, presumably of the legal division, showed
me photostatic copies of the material that was to be forwarded
to the Senate in response to the Joint Resolution for investigation of Mr. Farley.
Mr. Foley told me that the conference on the 22nd had been
attended by five Senators - Robinson, Bailey, Byrnes, O'Mahoney,
and, I think, McKellar - Secretary Morgenthau, Mr. Ickes and
Mr. Foley: that Mr. Foley read the ten items in Glavis' letter
of August 22, and that the Senators immediately asked the
Secretary of the Treasury whether an investigation of these
charges had been made; that Secretary Morgenthau replied that he
assumed it had been; and that when asked what the investigation
had shown, Secretary Morgenthau said that he assumed it had
shown that there was no basis for the charges.
Mr. Foley stated that it was the President's desire to prevent the present investigation from developing into a further
investigation of the Procurement Division and that, therefore,
he, Foley, was requested to see that Senator Robinson was furnished with sufficient information so that he had specifically
been given this assignment by the President and that Secretary
Morgenthau had asked him to get in touch with me about it. He
said that the two matters particularly to be given Senator
Robinson were (1) an explanation of the so-called missing
letter of January 12 from the Post Office Department; and
(2) a statement whether General Builders Supply Company had
furnished any material to either of the projects and, if so,
full information about this, including a copy of the subcontract.
When I said that I did not presume that the Procurement Division had a copy, he suggested that one be obtained from Stewart
and Company. He stated further that Public Works Administration's
housing project, Hillside Gardens, which was being conducted by
the Housing Division, had let a contract to General Builders
Supply Company and they were sending this information forward,
but that they had taken competitive bids, that the General Builders Supply Company had been one of three low bidders, and that
the contract had been split into three parts, and they had been
awarded one-third. I told him that I did not assume that any
such procedure had been followed in connection with any subcontract on the Stewart job because of the fact that Stewart
and Company had a contract and it would presumably not be a
matter of interest to the Procurement Division what the terms
of its subcontracts were.

-2-

43

Mr. Foley also said that at the meeting Secretary
Morthenthau had a photostatic copy of the letter of January
12, but that it was a copy showing a written signature of
Silliman Evans, the Fourth Assistant Postmaster General,
and that therefore it could not have been a copy of the socalled missing letter, because the statement had been made
that Evans had torn off his signature from that letter. I
stated to him that I did not believe the Secretary could
have had such a letter, because I had seen what I thought
were all the photostatic copies in the Treasury Department's
files and that they showed a copy of a letter which had the
bottom torn off.

I pointed out to Mr. Foley that it was not apparent
what bearing the subcontract with the General Builders Supply Company could have on whether or not the procedure in
connection with the bidding had been proper. He suggested
that such an arrangement might have been the "pay-off" I
answered that there were any number of other ways by which

Stewart and Company could have made payments to General

Builders Supply Company and that it seemed to me the question
was whether or not the bidding had been handled properly that

would be the con rn of the Treasury Department, and that the
Treasury Department's position on this point was complicated
by the letter of December 27, 1934 and the subsequent memoranda, all of which were in the file and all of which would
be submitted to the Senate, wherein it was indicated that the

Division of Investigations felt that there was still some
irregularity that required further investigation. Mr. Foley

stated that there was nothing that could be done under the
circumstances since the Public Works Administration did not
want to hold anything back; and I made it clear to him that
the Treasury Department did not want them to hold anything
back. I was hoping that he would make some explanation as
to why this matter had been reopened by the Division of Investigations after so many months, but he did not volunteer
any.

I told Mr. Foley that I understood the Treasury would
be given an opportunity to examine the material before it was
sent to the Senate and that I had hoped that, as long as
photostatic copies were being made an extra set could be
prepared for the Treasury Department; that I asked Mr. Glavis
for such copies and he said that he would send them if the
Secretary of the Interior permitted, but that we had never
received them. Mr. Foley said he thought we had received
them and, in my presence, called Mr. Burlew and asked whether

they could be sent. After the conversation he told me that
Mr. Burlew said he had copies for us and Mr. Foley promised
that they would be sent over. They were received the next
day.

Mr. Foley stated that the Public Works Administration
had no question about the propriety of the rejection of the

44

- 3-

second set of bids (in which the question was raised as to
whether Driscoll, the low bidder, had complied with N. R. A.
requirements) and agreed with the position that nothing else
could have been done except reject all bids in view of the
conflict between the Attorney General and the Comptroller
General. He said he knew about the opinion of Mr. Hunt,
P. W. A.'s General Counsel, advising this procedure. He
indicated, however, that they did question the propriety of
rejecting the third set of bids in view of the fact that
prior to rejection an application had been made to P. W. A.
for additional funds with which to complete the building and
such application had been granted. I pointed out to him the
statement in Dresser's memorandum that charges were made of
influence being brought to bear in favor of Driscoll and he
said he knew of that statement. He also referred to Dresser's
"damn' fool" comment about the dangerous practice of destroying letters.
In discussing the letter of December 27, 1934, I asked
to look at the photostatic copies which Mr. O'Connell had. I
found that subsequent to the letter of December 27 there were
memoranda of January 8, 1935, January 22, 1935 and February 20,
1935, all bearing on the same question. None of these memoranda were in the file that was shown to us on February 16,
1935 when Mr. McReynolds, Admiral Peoples, Mr. Laws and I called on Mr. Glavis for the purpose of examining the records. of
course neither the memorandum of February 20 nor a further
memorandum from Dresser of February 19, 1935 - which is now in

the file - should properly have been in the file at that time.
As I was leaving, Mr. Foley said that he had been instructed to await word from Senator Robinson before sending
the material to the Senate, but that Secretary Ickes had
directed him to send it immediately upon receipt of that word.
(Initialed) CVO

3-6-35
H.M.Jr:

Bulkley:

44 A

How are you?

Fine. I wanted to talk to you and I don't

know whether I ought to come down there or -

we can save both of us time by trying to do
it on the phone.
H.M.Jr:

Well try and do it on the phone and save
your time.

B:

Yes. About Judge Ferneding and the Board of

Tax Appeals. I understand that you're interested

in getting a prompt and good appointment.
H.M.Jr:

Yes.

B:

And I thought I'd call you up and see if I can
contribute anything in behalf of my candidate

H.M.Jr:
B:

or whether you can tell me anything.
Well you've given us his name, haven't you?
Yes and I sent him down there to see you.

H.M.Jr:

Yes. Well now we're getting them all together
and I suppose one of these days the President
will send for me and we'll go over them but
we haven't done that yet. He's been so busy
on this Work Relief bill that I haven't had
time to talk to him.

B:

Well now it already appears in the file that I
very highly recommended this gentleman and you
have seen him for yourself. About the only
thing that I can add, that hasn't been called to
your attention, is the fact that Ohio has
languished probably more than any other big

state in getting appointments.

H.M.Jr:

Well have you written a letter on it to the

B:

I have written letters to the White House

White House?

commending Judge Ferneding and that's been joined in
by all of our Democratic Congressmen except
the Congressmen at large. They have their
ideas about not making a recommendation but all
the district Democrats recommended this man.

H.M.Jr:

Well then there's nothing you can do until the

B:

That's right but I just wanted you to have in the
back of your mind this fact that Ohio has not

White House makes up its mind.

44B
-2yet had any Democratic appointment from this
administration.
H.M.Jr:

Alright sir.

B:

We got a Republican Ambassador to Turkey and one
or two good Republican appointments and a
Republican Member of the Communications Commission

but outside of Julian, Treasurer of the United
States, we have had nothing at all.

H.M.Jr:

I see. Alright Senator I'll keep that in mind.

B:

And is there any question that you can ask me

H.M.Jr:

Not right now because we're studying them all

that will help any?

and we're just sitting here waiting. I'11 be
perfectly honest with you and you know he's been
entirely taken up with this Work Relief bill
and until that's out of the way I doubt if he'11

take anything up.
B:

Well now I'm so damn busy I don't know where to
stand next and I know you're worse so I'm going

H.M.Jr:

to let it go at this without bothering to see you.
Well I appreciate your calling me.

B:

Thank you very much.

H.M.Jr:

Alright sir.
Goodby.

March 6, 1935.
Wednesday.

44C

H.M.Jr:

Good morning.

Doughton:

How are you?

H.M.Jr:

I'm fine.

D:

That's good. Are there any figures here
that ought to be assured on the Board of Tax

Appeals?

H.M.Jr:

Yes there's two vacancies.

D:

Have you got men tentatively selected to

H.M.Jr:

No.

D:

What?

H.M.Jr:

No we have not.

D:

fill them?

Well I'll tell you a man in whom I'm very
deeply interested and I believe he possesses
the qualifications, but I don't want to recommend
anybody unless what I think about him is firmly
supported by the most reliable information
because I know how important that position is.

H.M.Jr:
D:

H.M.Jr:

Yes.

Now of course you know well of the great standing
not only as
and ability of Mills Kitchin
one of the ablest men in Congress but one of the
ablest men in tax matters. He's had long experience with tax matters. He's been an attorney
here for a long time. He's now in the Department
of Justice doing some work with Mr. Stanley.
He's one of the brightest minded boys I've ever
seen. I suppose he's about 40 or 45 years old.
Yes.

I wish you'd check with Mr. Stanley and see what

he thinks of his ability and qualification to

fill that job. If we can establish his qualifi-

H.M.Jr:

cation, then I want to make the most insistent
appeal that I consistently can for his appointment.
Now what - I didn't get his name very well.

D:

What's that?

44D

-2 -

H.M.Jr:
D:

H.M.Jr:
D:

H.M.Jr:
D:

H.M.Jr:
D:

I didn't get his name very well.
His name is Mills
Mills?

M ills - Mills
Yes.

M 1 to h i n
Kichin
He's son of the late Claude Tichin you know.

H.M.Jr:

Oh yes.

D:

Who was Chairman of Ways and Means Committee.

D:

Now I want you to check on his qualifications
and have a talk with him.

H.M.Jr:

Right.

D:

And will you talk with Mr. Stanley of the

Department of Justice?
H.M.Jr:

Yes.

D:

He's at work up there now.

H.M.Jr:
D:

Right.

And if we can thoroughly establish his qualifications, why then I want to insist as strong as
I consistently can - I'm very anxious, but unless
we can fully establish his qualifications of
course I don't want him appointed.

H.M.Jr:
D:

H.M.Jr:

Alright sir.
But I believe we can.

Alright sir.

4&E
-3D:

Will you check that with Stanley first?

H.M.Jr:

I'll do that.

D:

I thank you so much and I want to you about

H.M.Jr:

around your smuggling bill now pretty soon.
Oh that's grand.

D:

another matter. I think we'll be able to get

We'll keep it right in mind. We've got to take
up this pink slip matter to-day and we're through
with the bonus matter and ready to report on that
and we're ready to go back to the Economic
Recovery just as soon as I finish the question
and can catch up.

H.M.Jr:

I see.

D:

We've got our hands full.
Alright.
We're not fogetting you.

H.M. Jr:

That's good. Thank you.

D:

Goodby.

D:

H.M.Jr:

March 6, 1935.

Wednesda y.

45

March 7, 1935.

dear

Dear Senator McKellar:

I beg to acknowledge receipt of your
letter of March 6th which has reached my desk
this morning.
As you suggest, I have read through

Senator Long's letter very carefully and I cannot
find any charges against the Treasury in it.
If at any time your Committee or
Senator Long wish any information in regard to
any matters affecting the Treasury I wish to
assure you that we will be glad to furnish you
promptly any and all information that we have
in our records.
Sincerely,

be

the

Honorable Kenneth McKellar,
United States Senate,
Washington, D. C.

that

March 7, 1935.

46

My dear Mr. Chairman:

Pursuant to your verbal request, I hasten to reply
further to your letter of March 6, which I received at ninethirty this morning, to comply with your request that my
statement be submitted to you by one o'clock today.
I note on examining Senator Long's letter of March 6,
a copy of which you enclose, that no specific reference is
made to the Treasury Department or to the Procurement Division. However, it is not my desire to suggest any technical
or formal difficulties, and I assume from your letter that
you feel if there is the slightest implication of any irregularity reflecting, even by indirection, upon this Department, the matter should be gone into fully and the complete
facts be put at the disposal of your committee. With this
position I am thoroughly in accord and shall reply to your
letter at this time as fully as the urgency of your request
permits, upon the understanding, of course, that any further
informa tion desired by your committee is entirely at your
disposal and that, if there are any questions which remain
unanswered as a result of this letter, or any records or
files of the Treasury Department or the Procurement Division
which your committee desires, your further request will be
complied with to the fullest extent that is within my power.
I am informed that, included in the material already
forwarded to your committee, is a letter from Mr. Louis
Glavis, Director of Investigations of the Public Works
Administration, dated August 22, 1934, addressed to the
Director of Procurement, in which Mr. Glavis lists ten items
which he feels should be brought to the Director's attention
as a result of the investigation made by Mr. Glavis' organization.

In order to acquaint you with the factual background

on these ten points, I feel that, in view of the shortness
of time, I can not do better than to enclose for your information a photostatic copy of a letter written to Mr. Glavis
by the Director of Procurement on February 27, 1935. It is
my hope that this letter will give you with sufficient particularity all information bearing upon these questions.
While no specific statement to that effect is made in

Senator Long's letter, I am prepared to assume from his reference to Stewart & Company and Driscoll & Company that he makes
reference to the matter of the bidding on the superstructure of
the New York Post Office Annex. The history of this incident

47
2-

is somewhat complicated, but the following are the principal

actions leading to the final result:

On February 28, 1933, bids for this project were
opened. The matter was held in abeyance without the acceptance of any bid pending the inauguration of the new administration on March 4th, and thereafter during the consideration
of the comprehensive public works program being developed by
the present administration. After the passage of the National
Industrial Recovery Act it was determined that further Federal
buildings would be erected out of funds allotted by the Public
Works Administration. Such funds were allotted for this project, but by reason of the additional requirements of the
National Industrial Recovery Act it was necessary to change
somewhat the terms of contracts for public works. For this
reason supplemental bids were requested from the bidders on

the original project.

On October 2, 1933 these supplemental bids were opened.
Geo. F. Driscoll & Company was found to be the low bidder and
James A. Stewart & Company the second low bidder. Stewart

& Company protested that the low bidder was disqualified by
reason of its failure to comply with the requirements surrounding the President's reemployment agreement. Conflicting decisions of the Attorney General and the Comptroller General
resulted in my decision that the only practical course to
follow was to reject both bids and to readvertise.

I should state at this point that the basis for bidding

on both the original and supplemental bids had been for alternative requirements, including on the one hand a completed building and on the other a building with the fourth and fifth floors
incomplete, due to the fact that it had not yet been determined
whether the additional space would be necessary to meet immediate
requirements. For this reason the readvertising was also made
on the basis of these same alternatives.
On December 27, 1933 the bids on the basis of this readvertisement were opened and it was found that Geo. F. Driscoll
& Company was the low bidder for the completed building with the
fourth and fifth floors uncompleted.
On account of this development, it became necessary to
determine finally which type of building should be selected.
While the matter was being considered, open charges of inequity
and favoritism were made in connection with both low bidders.
It was now evident that a determination of which type of building should be built would automatically result in the conclusion
as to which contractor would become the successful bidder. In

order to avoid any charges that the administrative officials of
United

48
3-

the Government were in that way guilty of favoritism or bad
faith, it was again decided to reject both bids and to readvertise. However, to avoid a repetition of the incident
just described, these bids were called for not on the basis
of alternatives, but only for the construction of a completed building.
When, after public advertisement, these bids were
opened on February 21, 1934, Stewart & Company was found to
be low bidder and for that reason the contract was awarded

to it.

Following is a list of these bidders, with the

amounts of their bids:

James Stewart & Company

Geo. F. Driscoll Company
Kenney Bros., ,Incorporated
Joseph Meltzer, Incorporated

Charles T. Wills

$4,287,700.
4,378,580.
4,393,000.
4,678,000.
4,836,500.

I might, in passing, make two further observations:
First, that on both the original bid and the supplemental
bid the same bidder was low on both alternatives and it was
only when the bids of December 27, 1933 were opened that it
was found that different bidders were low on the two alternatives; and second, that the final contracts awarded resulted
in a saving to the Government, over the previous lowest bid
for comparable work, of over $100,000.
Finally, I note that Senator Long refers on page 4
of his letter to a charge that engineers supervising public
works have formed a network of supervision to enure to the
advantage and control of said Farley". If this charge is
intended to refer to the engineers of the Procurement Division of the Treasury Department, I have every confidence
that it is without foundation, but I shall be most pleased
to have Senator Long submit to me any evidential foundation
for such a charge which, so far as I know, is now being made
for the first time; and I shall immediately institute a
thorough and comprehensive investigation of this allegation,

the results of which will be entirely at the disposal of

your committee.

Respectfully yours,

Secretary of the Treasury.
Honorable Kenneth McKellar

United States Senate

48A
Hello Mr. Secretary.
Hello Senator.
Couzens talking.
H.M.Jr:

How are you?

C:

Pretty well thank you. Say I haven't seen
in the press whether you've made any statements
or commitment oh the repeal of the so-called

8.9.3e
H.M.Jr:

pink slip. Have you made any commitment yet.

No. I've spoken to both - Senator Harrison
called me and Mr. Doughton and I told both the
gentlemen that the Treasury's position was
that we were here to carry out the orders of
Congress.

C:

Well I understood that they were going to ask
you to make some recommendations. Are you?

H.M.Jr:
C:

H.M.Jr:

C:

No I'm not going to.
Well I thank you very much. I'm glad you're

not going to get into it.
No. I've very definitely kept out of it, I

said we were going right ahead with our
preparations and if Congress wished to change

it why that was alright but that we were going
right ahead and that we absolutely were neutral.
Well I thank you very much. I just wanted to
know because I know there's going to be a fight

on it and I didn't want to --

H.M.Jr:

No we've taken no position.

C:

Yes.

H.M.Jr:

While I've got you on the phone, how do you
like the way the Mellon case is going?

C:

Well say this is the first time in all my 13

years here that I've ever seen a clean cut fight.
Now I'm glad you brought that up Mr. Secretary.
I wonder if there's anyway I can get a transcript
of the testimony?

H.M.Jr:
C:

Oh yes.

I'd like to get a transcript, if you'11 make a
note of it, because I think its going to be very
helpful in our legislative program.

48B
H.M.Jrs

tell - 2

Doughtons

Hollo

H.M.Jr:

Oh yes.

C:

And will you see that I get a copy?

H.M.Jr:

I'll take care of it at once.

C:

Thank you Mr. Secretary very much.

HM.Jr:

Alright.

C:

Goodby.

Sempering

H.M.F...

10:30 tomorrow.

Dr

10:30 wording,

..

B.N.Jrs

on

Dr

Mastis that?

Dr

H.M.M.
Dr

10

On the anti-buggling you're bean rather enxious
about that.
fine. We'11 be there.
Yes are home.

Alright.

hearing

you <<<<

H.M.P.

THISTS fine.

Dis

20170 in the Costitive Boom in the House
Office Building

Martin right.
March 7, 1935.
Thursday.

March 7, 1985

Thursday.

Thank you 1023 much.

48C

H.M.Jr:
Doughton:

Hello - hello Mr. Doughton.
Hello Mr. Secretary.

H.M.Jr:

Morgenthau.

D:

Yes. Would it suit you to come in the
morning at 10:30 to explain your anti-smuggling
bill?

H.M.Jr:

Sure.

D:

Well alright. I've got that arrangement so if
you want to come. I got the Committee to
agree to it.

H.M.Jr:

10:30 tomorrow.

D:

10:30 tomorrow morning.

H.M.Jr:
D:

On the anti-smuggling.
What's that?

H.M.Jr:

10 -

D:

On the anti-smuggling you've been rather anxious
about that.

H.M.Jr:
D:

Yes we have. That's fine. We'11 be there.

Alright. I wanted to give you the hearing
you know.

H.M.Jr:

That's fine.

D:

10:30 in the Committee Room in the new House

H.M.Jr:
D:

March 7, 1935.

Thursday.

Office Building .
That's right.
Alright. Thank you very much.

48E

March 7, 1935.

Thursday.

Opper.

H.M.Jr:

Oh yes Opper.

He feels very strongly that we ought to give him
more information.

H.M.Jr:

He does.

O:

Now I'd like to come back. All I wanted to find out

was whether you'd be around for the next ten minutes.

H.M.Jr:

Oh yes.

O:

All right sir I'll be right back.

H.M.Jr:

Did you bring your letter back?

O:

No I left it with him.

H.M.Jr.

But it wasn't satisfactory?

O:

That's right.

O:

And he suggested that we get another letter down to
him immediately. The Committee is going in session

and he says he'd like to have it in half hour.

H.M.Jr:

All right.

O:

I'11 come back.

H.M.Jr: Right.

48F

March 7, 1935.
Thursday.

H.M.Jr:
McKellar:

Got your message to Mr. Opper.

Yes sir.

H.M.Jr:

And I've just - we've just fixed up another letter and

McK:

All right, fine.

H.M.Jr:

You'll be in the room?

McK:

he's leaving now.

Yes sir. Tell him to knock on the door and we'll let

him in.

H.M.Jr: Now I want you to feel this, that anything here in the
Treasury you want, you can have it.

H.M.Jr:

All right. Thank you very much, that's fine. Say you
saw where it was indirectly reported to the Treasury?
Yes, I didn't know you see I --

McK:

I know that.

H.M.Jr:

I simply thought there was no direct implication.

McK:

Well I can readily understand how you'd feel about it

McK;

from the language.

H.M.Jr: But anything that your Committee wants - they can have
the Treasury.
McK:

Oh all right thank you.

H.M.Jr:

All right.

48G

Fahey:

Henry, John Fahey.

H.M.Jr:

Yes.

F:

They said you were trying to get me.

H.M.Jr:

Yes. I have in my room here Bell and Coolidge.

F:

Yes.

H.M.Jr:

And McIntyre wants us to get together with
you and give the White House a decision on

your bill as it was reported out. Do you
suppose you could come over?

F:

Yes. Well now what about that meeting at
11 o'clock this morning?
Well Bell is here and McIntyre says we've
got to get word up on the hill by when? By 11.

There are two things in the bill. One is the
fact that you can take application for another
60 days and the other that it jumped to 250
million dollars.

F:

H.M.Jr:

You mean 2 billion 500 million.
Two what?

H.M.Jr:

They raised it to 2 billion 500 million more?
Well they raised it to a billion and three quarters,

F:

A billion and three quarters?

H.M.Jr:

Yes.

F:

F:

H.M.Jr:
F:

H.M.Jr:
F:

isn't that what it is? A billion and three quarters.

They had it at a billion and a half you know.
Yes but - and also that you can take application
in 60 days for more.
Yes. Well -Well you're familiar with what they've done
aren't you?

Well I'm familiar with their having - no the 60
day thing is a new one. I haven't had anything
about that.

48 H

-2 H.M.Jr:

Well can't you come over and see the men so
that we can advise the White House?

F:

Oh yes. Well I can tell you right off the bat

what to advise the White House about it. The
White House ought to tell them no on both of them.

H.M.Jr:

No on both of them?

F:

Why absolutely.

H.M.Jr:
F:

Well would you stick on that?

Yes certainly. That's what we told them flat

up there.

F:

Alright. Well then But here I'll tell you - I'm not so sure --

H.M.Jr:

Just a minute. Coolidge is on the phone with me,

F:

Yes.

H.M.Jr:

He's listening.

F:

Yes.

H.M.Jr:

Go ahead.

F:

I told them flat up there in the Committee you
know and I told them privately for Bulkley and
Stegall that that figure ought not to go beyond

H.M.Jr:

see.

the 1 - 250 which was originally in that.

H.M.Jr:
F:

A billion and a quarter?
Right. Well then they went ahead. They were they had some of these projects and wanted to make it
two and all kinds of things and they finally
compromised and they called - they checked with
the President and they made it one and a half
but the understanding was that that was the
limit to which they were going to go, see? I
mean that was what they talked. So I don't take
much stock in this 60 day business as dangerous.

H.M.Jr:
F:

Oh well its outrageous.
Well of course it is very dangerous because it

-3will bring a flood of applications, don't you know.
H.M.Jr:

Well now will you do this. Will you tell this

F:

Oh yes.

H.M.Jr:

And then we'll talk to him too. I wish you'd
call him right away. They're very much con-

yourself to McIntyre.

cerned about this over there.

F:

Oh well I'11 call him right away.

H.M.Jr:

I wish you would.

F:

Alright. Is the meeting on for 11?

H.M.Jr:

Oh yes.

F:

What?

H.M.Jr:

Yes something - the President asked me to call it.

F:

Alright I'll be there at 11.

H.M.Jr:

He asked me to call it.

F:

Yes. Now say, let me add this.

H.M.Jr:

Yes.

F:

On this thing I'm not so sure that there is
much to be disturbed about this because some
of this is horseplay as far as the Committee
is concerned, to satisfy some of these people
on the floor and they expect that the bill is
going to go to conference and that some of
this stuff will be knocked out.
I know. That's what they always tell us and

H.M.Jr:
F:

H.M.Jr:

its never knocked out in conference.
Well that's of course I know we know that too.

Sure. That's a great trick you know "don't worry
we'll take care of it in conference" and it never
happens.

F:

Well you're quite right about that.

48D

4H.M.Jr:

I mean you can't take their word on that. Now
I think if we tell them now they'11 take care
of it on the floor. That's my understanding.

F:

Well that - that will --

H.M.Jr:

If you 11 get hold of Mac - he is very much
concerned about this.

F:

I'll get Mac right now.

H.M.Jr:

O.K.

F:

Now say - there's one other thing about this.

H.M.Jr:

Yes.

F:

Of course that is its just full of dynamite

and that's the 31% business in the Farm Credit
bill you know.

H.M.Jr:

Yes well that isn't in this.

F:

What? No but they'11 do it.
Yes well we'll talk about that at 11 o'clock.

H.M.Jr:
F:

Well alright because I think we ought to bring
all the pressure we can to bear to head that
thing off.

H.M.Jr:

O.K.

F:

All along the line. Alright I'll see you at
11 o'clock. I'll get McIntyre on this other
right away.

H.M.Jr:

Thank you.

F:

Alright. Goodby.

H.M.Jr:

Goodby.

March 7, 1935.

Thursday.

485

Senator Byrd:

How are you?

H.M.Jr:

I'm alright. Now what we're doing is this,
on that resolution of yours.

B:

Yes.

H.M.Jr:

We've got to get the information and if we
have luck we'll have it for you by Monday noon.

B:

Fine.

H.M.Jr:

But we're absolutely turning everything upsidedown

B:

Fine.

H.M.Jr:

to get it.

The latest will be Tuesday though but we ought
to have it by Monday and I just wanted to tell

you. We haven't got any of it. We've got to

get it all.

B:

H.M.Jr:

B:

H.M.Jr:

B:

H.M.Jr:

Well that's fine. You mean you haven't got
the balance unexpended. Of course that's
what I really want.
No. We've set up a chart - Bell has - and I've
just signed it this minute although we haven't
even yet got the thing presented. It hasn't
come down. I mean I haven't officially been
notified.

Alright. I'm going to make it clear on the
floor so that there'11 be no criticism of you,

you know in any way.

But I mean we had none of that information in

the shop. I just wanted to let you know that
Bell is doing everything he can.
That's fine.
And if - they'11 work all Sunday - and if we
have luck we'll have it Monday noon but certainly Tuesday noon.

B::

That's fine Henry. I certainly do appreciate it.

H.M.Jr:

Alright.

48K
-2-

B:

H.M.Jr:
B:

H.M.Jr:
B:

March 7, 1935.

Thursday.

a

I'11 make it clear that that newspaper
statement given out wasn't correct.
Alright.
Because I didn't say that.
Alright. Thank you.
Alright. Thank you Henry.

March 7, 1935.

49

The Interdepartmental Loan Committee met in the office of
the Secretary of the Treasury at 11:00 A.M. Those present were:
Henry Morgenthau, Jr. Secretary of the Treasury,
Harry Hopkins, Administrator, Federal Emergency Relief
Administration.
Jesse H. Jones, Chairman of the Reconstruction Finance
Corporation,

Marriner S. Eccles, Governor, Federal Reserve Board,

James A. Moffett, Administrator, Federal Housing Administration,
John H. Fahey, Chairman, Federal Home Loan Bank Board,

Vm. I. Myers, Governor, Farm Credit Administration.
George N. Peek , President, Export-Import Bank,
Colonel Horatio B. Hackett, Division of Housing, P.W.A.
Stanley Reed, General Counsel of the Reconstruction Finance
Corporation,

Leo T. Crowley, Chairman, Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation,
Lynn P. Talley, President, Commodity Credit Corporation.
Ward M. Buckles, Director of Finance, Agricultural Adjustment Adm,
Colonel Lawrence Nestbrook, General Counsel, Federal Emergency

Relief Administration,
T.J. Coolidge, Under Secretary of the Treasury,
Herman Oliphant, General Counsel for the Treasury Department,

D.W. Bell, Acting Director of the Bureau of the Budget.
C.B. Upham, Secretary of the Committee.
Mr. Hopkins read a proposed amendment to the pending Works

Relief Bill and asked for discussion and comment. It would permit
the RFC, the HOLC and the FCA to loan to state rehabilitation

-2-

corporations in connection with work relief.

50

Mr. Hopkins explained that under the Work Relief Bill, the
President, if he wanted to, could say to the RFC or to any other
lending agency, that he would give them, say $500,000,000 for
lending purposes. It is desirable that the lending agencies have
the power to lend under the Act. No additional funds for any of
the agencies are desired.
Mr. Hopkins said he knew the HOLC had some money and perhaps

some of the other agencies did also.
The idea, Mr. Hopkins said, was developed a month or so ago.

The President has approved it in principle. If it is presented it
will be presented as an Administration measure. It would have no
chance without Administration support.
Mr. Hopkins mentioned as a specific example e slum clearing

project. Instead of using all of the money out of the $4,000,000,000,
he said, a lending agency might lend to the housing authority out
of an existing fund. It would, of course, have a good many decisions to make in connection with such a transaction as to interest
rates, etc. Thus, he said, the lending agencies would be working
jointly with any operating agencies set up under the Work Relief
Bill. The whole force of the Government would be behind the project.
Maybe there is not much free money but there is some.
The President would like to use the powers of the lending
agencies, if possible, to get an emphasis on loans as well as grants.
He emphasized that the President could give a part of the
$1,000,000,000 to the RFC for lending purposes.
Mr. Morgenthau asked Mr. Bell how the proposal would fit into

51

-3-

the existing machinery.

Mr. Bell said that it would certainly increase the amount of
funds available. As the bill passed the House, the President
could give part of the $4,000,000,000 to the RFC but in the
present form of the bill that might not be possible.
Mr. Morgenthau said that as he saw the thing there were two

purposes in view, (1) to use existing machinery for disposing
of the money, and (2) to make use of any additional money that
happens to be on hand.

Mr. Oliphant asked if the primary purpose was to secure a

larger total fund or to make the type of funds available move
out more quickly.
Mr. Hopkins replied that both are primary purposes.
Mr. Hopkins said that a lending agency might desire to make

a loan where $500,000 was required but the security offered justified a loan of $400,000 only. In that case, he said, there might
be a grant of $100,000 and a loan of $400,000.
Mr. Morgenthau asked if an idea being sponsored by Marvin
Jones under which a man will be loaned $5,000 to buy a new farm

against a 2% First mortgage would fit into the proposed scheme.
Colonel Westbrook thought that might be taken care of indirectly
but Mr. Bell thought not unless the family was on relief.
Mr. Fahey said he saw some possibilities and advantages to
the suggestion. He thought the HOLC might have some money left

over to use in this manner if thought desirable.
Mr. Coolidge said he thought the idea was entirely appropriate
and
for the RFC but not for the HOLC or the FCA.
512%

52

Mr. Myers agreed with this position.
Mr. Morgenthau said he had the idea that guaranteed bonds

could be sold under the Work Relief Bill, but Mr. Hopkins said
not.

Mr. Morgenthau thought originally the President had the

idea of selling guaranteed bonds for self liquidating purposes.
Mr. Bell said that had been discussed but couldn't be put
on an appropriation bill.
Mr. Morgenthau said that he had hoped for a gradual unscramb-

ling of the emergency financial agencies and a return to direct
appropriations. If the proposal under review would put more
it
money to work that would be fine but if/merely complicated the
financial picture he had his doubts.
Mr. Hopkins said it would put money to work and that of the
total sum put in more would be returned to the Government than
if the lending agencies remained outside the picture. The
President may want Treasury or lending agency approval of all loans.
Mr. Morgenthau referred to some differences of opinion
between the FCA and the RFC on cotton and corn loans. Because

it didn't seem right to mix relief and farm credit, the RFC had
taken the loans over. He said he thought it was alright for the
RFC to go along on the proposal but that self-sustaining permanent
agencies shouldn't and that they wouldn't be of any help anyway.
The reaction would be unfavorable on all farm credit securities.
Mr. Morgenthau approved the idea if confined to the R.F.C.
Mr. Jones agreed and there was no disagreement.

Mr. Coolidge, Mr. Bell, Mr. Talley, Mr. Reed and Mr. Oliphant

-5-

S2A

SZB
were appointed as a sub-committee to redraft the proposal.
Mr. Morgenthau asked Mr. Myers about the amendment to the
Farm Credit Bill which would reduce farm credit interest to 3-1/2%.
Mr. Myers said this was equivalent to putting farm credit

on the dole. The bill is being held up, he said, waiting for
sanity to return.

Marvin Jones is considering an amendment for 2% money to

send operators of small farms as a sort of a compromise on the
Frazier-Lemke Bill.

Mr. Morgenthau was of the opinion that if the Administration
can win on the Works Relief amendments being supported by McCarran,

Wheeler, Byrd and others, there need be no compromise on the 3-1/2%

farm interest proposal. If the Administration loses on the Works
Relief amendments it doesn't matter much what happens anyway.

Mr. Myers said that Marvin Jones was of the opinion that
Mr. Morgenthau was friendly to his proposal.
Mr. Morgenthau said that he had told Marvin Jones that the
Treasury had no money for the purpose but that he was friehdly
toward the idea of giving the small farmer a chance. He said
that Marvin Jones had told him he was going to advance his proposal anyway and suggest using the gold profit.
Mr. Myers said that he had understood from Marvin Jones
that the President had expressed friendly interest and it might
be well to do some spade work at the White House.
Referring again to the amendment suggested by Mr. Hopkins,

Mr. Bell expressed the view that he thought the whole Works Relief

Bill might be complicated seriously if the Administration offered
this amendment at this time.

march 8,1935.

526

52B
TREASURY DEPARTMENT

Washington
FOR RELEASE, MORNING NEWSPAPERS,

Thursday, March 7. 1935.
3-6-35.

Press Service
No. 4-46

RND

Secretary of the Treasury Morgenthau announced last night that the

subscription books for the current offering of Treasury notes of Series A-1940

will close at the close of business Friday, March 8, 1935. Subscriptions placed
in the mail before 12 o'clock midnight, Friday, March 8, will be considered as
having been entered before the close of the subscription books. This offering
is open only to the holders of Treasury notes of Series C-1935, maturing March
15, 1935.

The subscription books for the Treasury bonds of 1955-60 will remain open

until further notice for the exchange of Fourth Liberty Loan bonds called for
redemption on April 15, 1935.
.

Announcement of the amount of subscriptions for the Treasury notes and

their division among the several Federal Reserve Districts will be made later.

march 8,1935. 52C
ANTI-SMUGGLING ACT
HEARINGS
BEFORE THE

COMMITTEE ON WAYS AND MEANS
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
SEVENTY-FOURTH CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
ON

H.R. 5496
MARCH 8, 13 AND MAY 1, 2, 1935

(CONSOLIDATION)

UNITED STATES

GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE
133176

WASHINGTON 1933

o

TOA

COMMITTEE ON WAYS AND MEANS
ROBERT L. DOUGHTON, North Carolina, Chairman
THOMAS H. CULLEN. New York
CHRISTOPHER D SULLIVAN, New York

ALLEN T. TREADWAY. Massachusetts
FRANK CROWTHER, New York

MORGAN G. SANDERS, Texas

HAROLD KNUTSON, Minnesota

JOHN W. McCORMACK Massachusetts

DANIEL A. REED. New York

DAVID J. LEWIS, Maryland

ROY O. WOODRUFF, Michigan

FRED M. VINSON Kentucky

THOMAS A JENKINS. Oble

JERE COOPER, Tennessee

JOHN W. BOEHNE Ja. Indiana
CLAUDE A. FULLER, Arkansas
WESLEY E DISNEY, Oklahoma
ARTHUR P. LAMNECK, Ohio

Page
Statements of3,29, 53, 125, 165
Hester, C. M., Treasury Department
Morgenthau, Hon. Henry, Jr., Secretary of the Treasury
29,53
Parker, S. V., Commander, United States Coast Guard
159
Tyrer, Arthur J., Department of Commerce
3.82
Yntema, Dr. H. E., professor of law. University of Michigan

III

FRANK H. BUCK, California
RICHARD M. DUNCAN, Missouri

CHESTER THOMPSON, Illinois
J. TWING BROOKS, Pennsylvania
JOHN D. DINGELL, Michigan
E. W. G. HUFFMAN, Clerk
11

CONTENTS

ISAAC BACHARACH, New Jersey

1

SAMUEL B. HILL. Washington

ANTI-SMUGGLING ACT
FRIDAY, MARCH 8, 1935
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES,

COMMITTEE ON WAYS AND MEANS.

Washington, D. C.

The committee met at 10:30 a. m., Hon. Robert L. Doughton
(chairman) presiding.
The CHAIRMAN. The committee will be in order. The meeting this
morning is called for the purpose of conducting hearings on H. R.
5496, a bill introduced by the chairman at the request of the Secretary of the Treasury, on February 7, 1935.

The title of the bill is, " To protect the revenue of the United

States and provide measures for the more effective enforcement of
the laws respecting the revenue, to prevent smuggling, to authorize
customs-enforcement areas, and for other purposes."
We are honored this morning by the presence of the Secretary of
the Treasury, Mr. Morgenthau, and other distinguished witnesses.
We should be glad to hear the Secretary at this time, if he will make
such explanation of the bill as he deems proper.

STATEMENT OF HON. HENRY MORGENTHAU, JR., SECRETARY
OF THE TREASURY

Secretary MORGENTHAU. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen, I have a
rather brief statement to make.

Prior to prohibition this country was not troubled much with
smuggling. During the 14 years of prohibition the business of smuggling liquor into the United States from all parts of the world developed to very serious and troublesome proportions.

It was generally expected that with the repeal of prohibition

liquor-smuggling operations and frauds on our revenue would be ma-

terially reduced. How widespread this opinion was may be evidenced by the fact that the appropriation for the Coast Guard, the
first line of defense against the rumrunners, was reduced from
$25,772,950 for the fiscal year of 1934 to $18,046,400 for 1935. This

drastic reduction resulted from a belief that repeal would largely
relieve the Coast Guard of those portions of its law-enforcement
activities which were directed against smuggling. For a time after
repeal such proved to be the case, but, commencing with the spring
of 1934, liquor smugglers again appeared along our coasts, and their
operations have now increased to alarming proportions. Thus, in
March 1934, only 2 smuggling vessels were observed off the coast,

but by February of this year this number had increased to 22.

Thirty-nine foreign vessels are presently known to the Coast Guard
1

2

ANTI-SMUGGLING ACT

1)

to be regularly engaged in the illicit-liquor traffic. Inasmuch
these vessels are hovering beyond our customs waters, they are not as
subject to seizure under existing laws, and hence they carry on their

smuggling operations almost with impunity.
Alcohol constitutes almost the entire cargo of these vessels, This
is due to several things. It is very cheap. It can be produced abroad
at costs ranging from 20 to 50 cents a gallon. It is highly concentrated. Two and one-half gallons of whisky can be made from
gallon of alcohol. It enjoys a large price differential due to the cus- a
toms duties and internal-revenue taxes, which amount to $13.30 on
a gallon of 190 proof.
A summary of the movements of known alcohol smugglers for the
last 4 months of 1934 indicates an outward movement from the principal ports of supply to the coast of the United States of over three-

quarters of a million gallons of alcohol. At this rate there would
be an annual movement of over two and a quarter million gallons.
The annual internal-revenue loss on this amount of alcohol, at $3.80
per gallon, would be almost $9,000,000; the loss in customs duties, at
$9.50
per gallon, would be over $21,000,000. making a total loss of over
$30,000,000.
The principal enforcement agencies engaged in the prevention of

smuggling are the Coast Guard and the Bureau of Customs. The
appropriations for the Coast Guard for 1935 are $18,346,400; those
for the Bureau of Customs (omitting the refund and drawback figures) are $18,500,000. It is estimated that of these appropriations

about 20 percent, or between seven and eight million dollars, is

properly chargeable to our efforts to prevent smuggling.

The practical difficulties in checking smuggling can hardly be

ANTI-SMUGGLING ACT

actual experience in dealing with smuggling and also by Dr Hessel
E. Yntema of the University of Michigan Law School, an expert in
those phases of international and maritime laws that are involved.
Representatives of the Department and Dr. Yntema are here this
morning and will be glad to render your committee any assistance
possible.

I cannot urge too strongly upon you the importance of this legislation. In fact, the enactment of this bill is imperative if the Government of the United States is to wipe out smuggling and collect
the millions of dollars in revenue lost annually through the successful

operations of the liquor smugglers who are now able to carry on
their illicit trade near our shores largely because of the inadequacy
of present antismuggling laws.
Mr. COOPER. Mr. Chairman, I should like to ask the Secretary this

question: I assume, Mr. Secretary, that you would probably prefer

that some of the gentlemen with you undertake a brief analysis of the
bill itself, in order that we may clearly comprehend the scope of the
measure as well as the purposes to be accomplished.
Secretary MORGENTHAU. Not being a lawyer, and this being an altogether legal matter. I would appreciate it if I may be allowed to ask
some of the lawyers who have worked on this to outline the bill.
Mr. COOPER. I think that is a very fair position to take, Mr. Chair-

man. I suggest the Secretary be permitted at this point to present

the witness he desires to be heard on that phase of the matter.
The CHAIRMAN. With the understanding that if later any members
desire to question the Secretary he will be available for such questioning.

Secretary MORGENTHAU Of course. May I present Mr. Hester,

exaggerated. Our 10,000-mile coastline with the many opportunities

from the Treasury.
The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Hester, will you come forward, give your official connection, and what experience you have that qualifies you to

runners; and the highly efficient and well-financed smuggling organizations that have grown up since the advent of prohibition, are all

testify on this bill.

it affords for concealment: our comparatively small Coast Guard
force of about 10,000 men: the seamanship and daring of the rum-

prime factors in making the smuggling problem one difficult of
solution. Another. and not the least important factor, is the inadequacy of existing antismuggling legislation. The ineffective legislative weapons at present at our disposal for this work have time
and time again permitted the escape from punishment of vessels
which were violating every principle behind our customs enforcement
laws, vessels, in fact, which had never earned an honest dollar in
their entire seagoing lives, but had been designed, built, and used
exclusively for smuggling into the United States.
To arm and equip the Coast Guard to a point where it could completely wipe out all smuggling by sea would be an expensive business.

But it will cost nothing to give them adequate legislation with which
to fight smuggling. The proposed legislation which your committee
has under consideration is designed to do this. It provides for no
appropriation by Congress. Its sole purpose is to give enforcement
officers of the Government adequate weapons with which to fight a
traffic that yearly is robbing the United States of millions of dollars

of revenue.

The Treasury Department has submitted to your committee suggestions for legislation dealing with this problem. These suggestions are the product of several months of work both by the experts
in the various bureaus of the Department who have had years of

STATEMENTS OF C. M. HESTER, ATTORNEY, OFFICE OF THE
GENERAL COUNSEL: AND DR. H. E. YNTEMA, PROFESSOR OF
LAW, UNIVERSITY OF MICHIGAN

Mr. HESTER. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen, my name is C. M.
Hester. I am an attorney in the office of the General Counsel of the
Treasury. I would like to call up here, to collaborate with me, Dr.
Yntema.

The CHAIRMAN. I am sure there is no objection to that.
Mr. COOPER. I would suggest to Mr. Hester, as I view the situation, that it would be helpful to the committee if you would kindly
follow the suggestion incorporated in my question to the Secretary.
Mr. HESTER, I intend to do so.
Mr. COOPER. This is a new matter to many of us. We understand
the purposes to be accomplished from the splendid statement of the
Secretary. We want to know the methods sought to be employed
under this pending bill.
Mr. HILL Will the gentleman from Tennessee yield
Mr. COOPER. I yield.

Mr. HILL Would it not be a good idea for the witness to take the
bill up section by section and go through it that way

3

ANTI-SMUGGLING ACT

ANTI-SMUGGLING ACT

Mr. COOPER. I had it in mind for the witness to make a brief state.
ment of the manner in which the subject is treated and then have an
explanation of the bill as indicated by Mr. Hill.
The CHAIRMAN. The Chair thinks that would be a proper course
to pursue.

Under section 1, extension of customs control into the high seas
may be limited by administrative action-that is, by the Presidentto those areas beyond the 12-mile limit, where smuggling operations

4

Mr. HESTER. As a preface to a discussion of the various sections of
the bill, I will state the general purposes of the proposed legislation.

The major purposes of this bill are (1) to extend customs control
beyond the 12-mile limit, (2) to provide for more rigid enforcement
within the 12-mile limit, and (3) to encourage reciprocal legislation
on the part of foreign countries principally by making it an offense
for our nationals and vessels to violate the revenue laws of such foreign countries as punish their nationals and vessels for violations of
our revenue laws. The proposed legislation is divided into four titles.
Section 1, under title 1, authorizes the President, as may be required
to protect the revenue, to declare customs-enforcement areas upon the
coastal waters of the United States beyond the present customs waters

whenever he finds that such action is justified by the presence of

hovering vessels off the coast ; that is, smuggling vessels.

Mr. HILL Just so that I may have a better understanding of thisyou are taking the 12-mile limit as the limit within which you can
operate without this legislation?
Mr. HESTER. That is right. This section at the same time specifically preserves, as the fundamental principle in the entire act, the
rights of foreign vessels under the various liquor treaties; that is,
under the hour's sailing distance liquor treaties.
Except by special arrangement with the power concerned, no foreign-treaty vessel can be seized under any provisions of the proposed
legislation beyond the treaty limits.
Within such customs-enforcement areas officers of the customs may
be directed by the President to enforce any applicable law: that is,
the law must already apply. It must be there. Then the President.
by the various sections of this proposed legislation, may take action if
certain acts are committed outside the 12-mile limit, which acts are
made offenses.

Then, if it is discovered that beyond the 12-mile limit we find

smuggling vessels hovering with impunity, maybe just a few miles
beyond the limit, the President is authorized to declare that particular limit a customs-enforcement area and to direct officers of the
customs to seize the vessels, to board them, search them, and if
they have violated the law, to bring them into port.
The effect of the customs-enforcement-area provision is not designed to extend any law of the United States but to permit a flexible administrative control of enforcement on the high seas of such
laws as already extend beyond customs waters.

This is designed to answer the possible protest of any foreign
power that the provisions of the proposed legislation violate any
principle of international law.

Mr. HILL. I did not quite get that. Would you mind repeating

that?

Mr. HESTER. This is designed to answer the possible protest of any

foreign power that the provisions of the proposed legislation violate
any principle of international law. A little later on we will discuss

that question of law.

5

are particularly and notoriously troublesome. This will make it
unmistakably clear that the proposed legislation complies with the
requirement that extraterritorial jurisdiction provisions be reasonably necessary to the protection of the revenue and the national
welfare.

Now, just briefly for a moment to stop here, so that the chairman
and the members of the committee will see the questions of law presented by this first section. We expect to supply you with authori-

ties which establish the proposition that a nation is authorized to
extend its customs control such distance from its shores as may be
reasonably necessary to protect its revenue and the general welfare;
and, I say, we will supply those authorities to you as we go along
Section 2 (a) of the bill subjects to a fine of not more than $5,000,
or to imprisonment for not more than 2 years, or to both, any person owning in whole or in part any vessel of the United States or
controlling it, directly or indirectly, who permits such vessel to be
employed in smuggling merchandise into any foreign country if such

foreign country provides any penalty for violation of the revenue

laws of the United States. Persons on board assisting in such smuggling activities are subject to the same penalties, and the vessel itself
is subject to seizure and forfeiture.
Section 2 (b) makes it an offense to charter a vessel with actual or
implied knowledge that the vessel is going to be used for the purposes
prohibited by section 2 (a).
This whole section is designed to encourage legislation on the
part of foreign countries penalizing their nationals and vessels for

violating our revenue laws. It is modeled after a Norwegian law

of June 25, 1926.

The necessity for that will be obvious to you when we take a hypothetical case. Outside our 12-mile limit, we will say, are notorious
rumrunners, flying foreign flags.
We appeal to the foreign country. They say, 'We have no laws
which prohibit our vessels from violating your laws."
So the purpose of this section is to initiate reciprocal legislation.

That is, we make it an offense to violate the laws of a foreign

country by our citizens and our vessels in the hope that they will
enact reciprocal legislation.

Mr. McCormack. You say, in the hope." Is this for the purpose
of bringing about negotiations with these foreign countries, or what
is the purpose?

Mr. HESTER. No: the purpose is to enact this legislation.
Mr. McCormack. There is a big difference between hoping and
enacting, as you know.
Mr. HESTER. Oh, perhaps I did not make myself clear on that
We ask that this legislation be enacted because we hope that the
foreign country will enact similar legislation.
Mr. LEWIS. You mean, this provides the inducement?
Mr. HESTER. That is right.
assurance
Mr. REED. May I ask this question Has there been any
given that they will cooperate at all?
Mr. HESTER. May I ask Dr. Yntema to answer that question

ANTI-SMUGGLING ACT

6

ANTI-SMUGGLING ACT

The CHAIRMAN. Will you state for the record who Dr. Yntema is!
Mr. HESTER. Dr. Yntema is professor of law in the University of
Michigan
and with
an authority
in connection
this bill. on international law, who is assisting us

instance, a give-away of the nature of their illicit activities. This

section will also stimulate reciprocal legislation by other countries.
Section 4 authorizes collectors of customs to revoke or refuse to
document (i. e., to register, enroll, license, or number) any vessel
when it appears, from its build or otherwise, that the vessel is going

Dr. YNTEMA. My understanding is that the question asked is
whether, if this proposed section 2 (a) were enacted, similar legislation would be enacted by other countries.
Mr. REED. The question is whether any assurance has been given,
either formal or informal.
Dr. YNTEMA. As far as I know, there has been no formal assurance, of course. It was, however, stated informally that there was a
chance: that one of the difficulties that the Government had in dealing with the problem resulted from some of the limitations in its own
legislation, and one of the limitations was the fact that there was no
provision under which the Government of the United States could
take any measures to suppress illicit activities on the part of Ameri-

to be employed in smuggling. At present this authority does not
exist even though the master of a vessel on applying for documentation should announce that he were going to use the vessel as a rumrunner. This section is also reciprocal in that it will serve as a base
for requests to other powers to take similar action.

Mr. HILL Were your remarks directed to American-registered
vessels entirely, or did you include within this scope the vessels of
foreign registry
Mr. HESTER. This would be devoted solely to American vessels.

Mr. HILL Why would that induce reciprocal legislation by foreign
governments?

can citizens, for example, who were engaged in rumrunning into

Mr. HESTER. We are revoking the registry of American vessels for
violating foreign laws, and they might do likewise.

Canada. The suggestion was made that Norway has a statute of this
general character and that it would be a good thing to facilitate the
negotiations to incorporate this provision.
Mr. REED. Would you mind telling us for the record, unless it is
against the public interest. which nation is the most flagrant violatori
do not want to press the question if the information should not be

Mr. HILL I thought you had reference to their operations within

the waters of the United States.
Mr. HESTER. No. It would extend beyond. I am glad you brought

that point up. Thank you.
Section 5 permits vessels forfeited for violation of the revenue laws

disclosed.

to be destroyed whenever the Secretary of the Treasury is of the
opinion that they are likely to be returned to the smuggling traffic

Mr. HESTER. Commander Parker, will you step forward and give
the committee that information? May I say to the committee, this

is Commander Parker, of the Coast Guard.
The CHAIRMAN. Commander, can you answer the question asked
by Representative Reed?
Commander PARKER. The vessels employed in rumrunning and
hovering off our coasts are almost exclusively under the British flag.
Mr. HESTER. Does that answer the question?
Mr. REED. Yes.

Mr. HESTER. Section 3 subjects to forfeiture when found at any
place where it may be examined by an officer of the customs in the
enforcement of any revenue law (1) any vessel, foreign or domestic,
built or fitted out for the purpose of being employed to defraud the
revenue or to smuggle merchandise into the United States or into
such foreign countries as have reciprocal legislation of the type
already discussed, or employed within the United States for any such
purpose, (2) any vessel of the United States employed at any place
for any such purpose.

For the purpose of the section vessels which are de facto owned
controlled by American citizens or corporations are deemed vessels
of the United States.
or

Also for the purposes of this section the fact that a vessel is displaying certain typical indicia of smuggling activities, such as not
stopping as required to by customs officers, or hovering suspiciously
off the coast of the United States, or failing to display lights, raises
the presumption that the vessel is being employed to defraud the
revenue of the United States.
This section is patterned after an old statute relating to piratical
vessels. It is believed that this statute will prove very useful since
the build and dimensions of smuggling craft are, in almost every

7

if sold.

At present forfeited rumrunners, being practically useless for
0

legitimate commerce, are sold very cheaply at condemnation sales,
usually to their former owner or some other rumrunner, and in the
majority of cases return shortly to the liquor traffic.
Mr. REED. I am sorry to interrupt, butMr. HESTER. We are very glad to have you interrupt, sir.

Mr. REED. Just to clear up some point in my own mind. As I
understand the law, 3 miles is now the limit fixed by international
law, is it not?
Mr. HESTER. The 3-mile limit is the limit within which under international law a country exercises exclusive and absolute jurisdiction.

Mr. REED. Exactly. Under the tariff act that I have here, section
581, boarding vessels, enforcement provisions, that is when this socalled 12-mile limit" went into effect.
Mr. HESTER. No: the 12-mile limit went into effect as long ago as
1790.

Mr. COOPER. What was that!

Mr. HESTER. The 12-mile limit with reference to customs administrative control has been in effect since 1790.
Mr. REED. Just one moment. This 12-mile zone-was that created
by treaty or by statute
Mr. HESTER. By statute. After we have finished the bill we hope
to be able to supply you with some authorities of the Supreme Court
which uphold the right of the United States to extend its customs
control not only to the 12-mile limit, which has been on the statute
books since 1790, but which also would permit the United States. if
necessary to protect its revenue, to extend its limit beyond the 12-mile
zone.

8

ANTI-SMUGGLING ACT

ANTI-SMUGGLING ACT

For certain offenses these acts would render a vessel liable to
forfeiture if the vessel was found within 2 leagues of the coast, or

Mr. REED. Do you mean to say that the United States, by statute,
can control foreign shipping beyond the 3-mile limit: that is, that it

can fix any limit that it wants to for these purposes Do you have
authorities for that opinion?
Mr. HESTER. Yes. We have an opinion by Chief Justice Marshall
which is to the effect that a nation has the right to extend its customs control such distance from its shores as may be reasonably-

6 miles; for other purposes, if the vessel were found within 3 leagues
of the coast, or 9 miles; for other purposes if the vessel were found
within 4 leagues of the coast, or 12 miles; for still other purposes,
if the vessel were found 8 leagues off the coast, and even in some
cases a hundred leagues off the coast, the vessel would be liable to

revenue, and to enforce its laws.

Mr. REED. For instance, have those so-called regulations" of
Great Britain been brought into the courts in connection with any

there is the test right there-reasonably necessary to protect its
Mr. REED. Did he go beyond that? Does not the 3-mile limit

stand as an international law?
Mr. HESTER. Dr. Yntema will answer you on that.

Dr. YNTEMA. May I just make a few comments? The first

is

and by this Government with respect to the extent of the territorial jurisdiction of the Nation. That is the theory of the British
Government and of this Government as enunciated, for example, in

the recent liquor treaty between this country and the British Government, so that within a 3-mile zone outside of the coast a nation

has the same control as it has over the land.
However, it is to be said that it is by no means accepted that that
limit might not be larger. There are various countries which claim a

wider zone. And in illustration of the difference of opinion that

exists, I might cite the fact that in 1930 there was a conference for the
codification of international law held at The Hague, and the Second
Commission, which dealt with the question of territorial waters, were
unable to reach an agreement as to the extent of the marginal zone.
They were unable to agree that this distance should be 3 miles for the
reason that there were a number of powers-t Scandinavian powers,
Italy, Spain, and others-that claimed more than 3 miles as the extent
of the territorial waters.
It seems to me, however, that this question is outside of that. The
question is whether a nation has for any purposes, outside of the territorial waters in special cases where the exigencies of its own needs
demand it, a special right to exercise measures beyond the 3-mile zone,
or whatever the distance may be, that is taken for territorial waters.
Our own legislation, which goes back to 1790, has been uniformly
enacted on the principle that for the protection of the revenue the
American Government does have the right to take reasonable measures beyond the territorial waters.
Mr. REED. Do the other nations also recognize the same principle of
law with reference to their revenue
Dr. YNTEMA. You are asking me a question which is a very complicated one to answer, but let me illustrate the situation by reference to
the British laws. The British have had on their statute books since
1700 various hovering laws, designed to deal with smuggling, to deal

with vessels hovering off the coasts of Great Britain in order to

ceased off the British coasts.
Prior to that time these acts had fixed various distances for various
offenses, and the whole story is a very technical and complicated one.

forfeiture.

cases

Dr. YNTEMA. You mean in the British courts!

with reference to the 3-mile limit. As you perhaps know, that has
been the policy or the doctrine followed by the British Government

smuggle goods into British territory.
I suppose there are 25 or 40-some number that I cannot state
precisely-of those acts that have had a very long history. Those acts
were finally consolidated in 1876, about 25 years after smuggling had

9

Mr. REED. Yes. That is, with relation to the ships of other
nationals?

Dr. YNTEMA. A large number of foreign vessels have been forfeited in the British courts under the British hovering laws for acts
committed beyond the 3-mile zone. Did you also mean international
arbitrations
Mr. REED. Yes, with reference to seizures under these limitations
fixed by Great Britain.
Dr. YNTEMA. I made a careful search of that, and I do not think

there is any arbitration which directly involved the validity of

these regulations. There are some arbitral proceedings which are
discussed in connection with this sort of question, the fur seals
arbitration, in which the British counsel, Sir Charles Russell, admitted that the hovering act formed an exception to what he claimed
was the general rule.

Mr. REED. That is what I want to know. Have there been any
cases? This is so very important from the international standpoint.
Are the Treasury Department and the State Department working in

harmony on the matter of these extensions?

Dr. YNTEMA. I do not think I should answer that question, if you

will excuse me.

May I add one comment to my last remarks, Mr. Chairman?
I think it should be understood, in considering this question, that
you have three kinds of vessels.
First, there are American vessels. There is no question about the

right of the United States to deal with American vessels anywhere
upon the high seas.

Second, the treaty vessels; the vessels belonging to the powers with
which the United States has entered into a treaty relating to the distance within which such vessels can be boarded and seized

As you will notice, this legislation adopts throughout the prin-

ciple-o these proposals which have been put into this bill, as I
understand it, adopt throughout the principle that the treaty shall
control. So you do not have any question there. In other words, you
are talking about the ships of those powers such as Mexico, such as
Spanish Honduras, and so forth, with which the United States has
not entered into a treaty.
In other words, there are 16 powers with which the United States
has entered into treaties settling this question, and they are all the
principal maritime powers; Great Britain, France, Germany, Spain.
Portugal, the Scandinavian powers, Belgium, and the Netherlands:
of course, Canada and Cuba, and so forth

0
10

11

ANTI-SMUGGLING ACT

ANTI-SMUGGLING ACT

Third, there are the nontreaty foreign vessels.
Mr. REED. Now, if I may just press the question. As this involves
an international situation, I just wanted to know if you are working
in harmony with the State Department on this proposed legislation.

seize such a vessel, and it could be condemned in the courts of this
country. Of course, if the seizure were made, and it was found out
that the vessel was not a piratical vessel it would be unfortunate.

Mr. HESTER. We have worked in cooperation with the State

Department.

nations, generally speaking.

Mr. REED. Are they in accord with your proposal to extend these

law it is defined in our own statutes, as you know. We have specific
statutes dealing with pirates.

limits?

Mr. HESTER. They have not yet advised us officially.
Mr. REED. Mr. Chairman, this appears to be a very important piece

of legislation. Of course, if we pass this legislation, we want it to
be effective. I think we should hear from the State Department and

get their views.

The CHAIRMAN. The Chair will be very glad to address a communication to the State Department and ask for an expression of
opinion on this bill.
Mr. BACHARACH. If we are to go ahead with this kind of an investigation, I think we should hear from the State Department, and have

them make a very definite statement. I do not think this idea of
hearing indirectly is the way to proceed.
The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman does not insist upon that at this

juncture?
Mr. BACHARACH. No; of course not.

The CHAIRMAN. We will be able to take care of that.
Mr. LEWIS. I would like to ask the doctor a question or two, Mr.

Chairman.

Doctor, I am obliged to ask you some elementary questions for my
own information.
Dr. YNTEMA. They are usually the most difficult to answer.
Mr. LEWIS. They probably will not be for you. Up to 3 miles, by
general agreement among nations, the waters may be regarded as
domestic waters, and you would enforce your domestic laws there as
you would on the lakes or the rivers, generally speaking?
Dr. YNTEMA. You have to be careful even as to that statement.
There is a difference of opinion as to the nature of the control that

a nation has over the territorial waters. But in general, I think it

can be said, subject to this qualification, if I may make it, that it is
generally agreed that even within the 3-mile zone the vessels of
other countries have a right of innocent passage. In other words,
if a British vessel or a French vessel, in its ordinary course, should
pass within 3 miles, it would be a breach of our obligations under
international law for the United States to say that it was improper
for a merchant vessel in its ordinary innocent voyage to pass within
3 miles. That right of passage is recognized.
Mr. LEWIS. Then we will go to the other boundary. Let us say
there are pirates on the ocean. Under international law have we
a right to pursue them wherever we find them and apply the laws to

them?

Doctor YNTEMA. As I understand it, a pirate is regarded as an
offender against the law of nations, and every nation has the right
to enforce the law of nations as against a pirate. In other words,
if there were a pirate on the high seas, sailing, let us say, the flag
of any other country, the vessels of the United States could properly

Mr. LEWIS. The definition of piracy is to be found in the law of
Doctor YNTEMA. Yes, except that for the purpose of our own

Mr. LEWIS. I happen to remember from reading that while

slavery plagued the world, the British Parliament declared the sea
traffic in slaves to be piracy, and applied the law of piracy to such
pirates when they were captured.
What is the limit to which a nation-I mean not an irresponsible
nation that simply wants to work its will, but a nation having due
regard for the rights and feelings of other nations-wh is the limit
to which a nation can go through domestic legislation in defining
offenses and punishing offenders on the high seas without regard to
their citizenship?

Dr. YNTEMA. As I understand your question, you mean by ex-

tending

Mr. LEWIS. Could we call smuggling 'piracy", as the British

called the slave traffic?

Dr. YNTEMA. The answer to your question is that the British did
not succeed in doing it that way. As you know, it was a very sore
point in the relations between this country and Great Britain over a
period of some 50 years, and the problem was not finally solved until
the treaty of 1862 between this country and Great Britain, under the
terms of which the vessels of this country and the vessels of Great
Britain were mutually given the right to visit the vessels of the other
nation.

The slave traffic offers a very individual set of questions. As you
know, an effort was made to seize the slaves off the coast of Africa.
There were American patrols and British patrols off the coast of
Africa, and an effort was made there to stop the traffic at its source.
The British did succeed in treaties with some other countries at an
earlier date in getting this right to search vessels on the high seas
off the coast of Africa. But it seems to me that is quite a different
question from the one here where you are simply asking, Does the

United States have in international law the right to do what is
reasonably necessary to prevent goods from being smuggled into

the United States?'

Mr. LEWIS. It has that reasonable right. It must, of course, go

as far as it can to protect its revenue.

Dr. YNTEMA. Yes. I think the answer to that question is "yes."

Mr. LEWIS. But, to begin with, you would say that the 3-mile limit
qualifies it, and if we are to go beyond 3 miles and arrest offenders

and apply our laws, it must be with the consent of the nations of

which the offender is a subject or a citizen
Dr. YNTEMA. Well, that is one way of stating it. It seems to me
the consent, though, has been generally given. For example, there
are the 4-league provisions or 12-mile provisions; the fact that those
statutes give this right to board a foreign vessel bound to a port of
the United States within 12 miles shows that from the point of view
of international law, there is a general agreement that such a pro-

12

ANTI-SMUGGLING ACT

vision is a reasonable provision. That is, the United States, if it
so desires, as Secretary Fish once said when he was Secretary of
State, does have some right to control trade with the United States.
It certainly has the right within the 3-mile limit, because at least

that is the territory of the United States. But it seems generally
agreed that it also has the right outside of that territory to that

reasonable extent, that is, to take reasonable measures.

Mr. LEWIS. Under the bill before us, with respect to the area beyond 3 miles and up to 12 miles, do you make the penalties positively
applicable whether the nation of the offender has agreed or not, or
is that to be reciprocal subject-matter.
Dr. YNTEMA. No.

Mr. LEWIS. Under the bill?
Dr. YNTEMA. It is not true under our present unlading provisions.

Mr. LEWIS. Up to 12 miles we apply our domestic will to the
offender
Dr. YNTEMA. That is the principle of our present law.
Mr. LEWIS. Where, then, and in what respect does the reciprocity

0

ANTI-SMUGGLING ACT

13

Mr. McCorMACK. I thought I heard the commander say that most

of the trouble is with British ships. Is that right

Commander PARKER. Yes, sir: practically all of the vessels.
Mr. McCorMACK. I understood the doctor to say that the United
States and England have a treaty. If that is so, what is the neces-

sity of this legislation? If they have a treaty agreement with the
principal offender, why does not the treaty cover the situation
Dr. YNTEMA. The treaty does not make any law. AH that the
treaty does is to say that the British Government will not make any
claims in the event

Mr. McCormack. You have not explained what the treaty pro-

vides. You said there were three classes of vessels.
Dr. YNTEMA. That is right.

Mr. McCorMACK. One of the group was a treaty vessel. You

have treaties with 16 nations.
Dr. YNTEMA. Quite right.

Mr. McCorMack. The commander said that the principal trouble
was with England, and you say we have a treaty with England. I

condition enter? Is it in this regard, that if they find our citizens

assumed the treaty would cover it.

smuggling into the country, American smugglers, and bring the evidence to us, that we will punish those smugglers in our country
Is that
the of
reciprocal
rocal
feature
the bill? feature of the bill, or is that the only recip-

Dr. YNTEMA. The treaty covers it insofar as the determination of
the distance within which action can be taken is concerned
Mr. McCormack. What is the agreement with reference to that,
with England?

Dr. YNTEMA. If I could take just a moment to explain that. There
are, I think, four chief provisions which are intended to deal with
this question, or to lay the basis for more effective international arrangements with other nations, and in general I may say that these
suggestions are the result of suggestions which came informally

Dr. YNTEMA. In all these treaties the distance is the same. It is
the 1-hour sailing distance of the vessel, or, if there is a contact
boat which has a higher speed, the provision is 1 hour's sailing distance of the contact boat, If, for example, the contact boat has a
speed of 25 miles an hour there is a gap of 13 miles between the distance within which you are permitted, under the treaty, to board, and

Department.

search, and seize the vessel, if there is reasonable grounds of suspicion,

from the talks which we had with various persons in the State

One of these is a provision giving a more effective control of clearances of all vessels, including foreign vessels.

One of the difficulties in the present situation is that adequate
information as to the activities of the rum carriers cannot be had
because of difficulties in our own laws, and the other laws as to
clearances. Simple administrative regulations governing clearances,
which we believe will improve this situation, are contained in section

and the distance within which, under present laws, our officers are
authorized to act.

The treaty does not confer any power upon anybody. It simply
says that the British Government will not make any objection if
certain things happen to British vessels within a certain distance.
Mr. McCorMack. The treaty does not cover the specific actions.

It gives no power. It is a general treaty with reference to the dis-

209.

tance within which a vessel may be boarded.

Another provision is this one in section 4 which has been referred
to, namely, giving a discretionary power to the collector of customs
upon proper showing, before appeal to the Secretary of Commerce,
to revoke the registry of a vessel which is engaged in smuggling,
whether into the United States or into another country.

Dr. YNTEMA. It is a limitation, you might say a definition, of the
international right.
Mr. COOPER. Will the gentleman yield on that point
Mr. McCorMack. Yes.

That again gives another method of control which it is to be

hoped other nations might follow with respect to their vessels
Of course, that only applies to American vessels, because no other
vessels are registered in this country.
The third provision provides on a reciprocal basis that American
vessels which smuggle goods into other countries can be forfeited
if that country has an analogous law applying to their vessels.
Mr. LEWIS. That is the reciprocal one. What is the other
Dr. YNTEMA. The other one is an analogous one but providing for
punishment upon American citizens who engage in smuggling into

another country.

Mr. COOPER. What would the enactment of the proposed measure do

so far as changing the provisions of existing treaties is concerned
Dr. YNTEMA. In the first place, of course, it would not change the
provision of any treaty. It assumes that those treaties are valid until
they are changed by a new agreement or by an amendment duly nego-

tiated with the foreign power involved. It does, however, do this:
It extends in the case of a foreign vessel the power of the American
officer to make a search, for example, within the limit contemplated
in the treaty.
Mr. COOPER. It will necessitate the negotiation of other treaties, will

it not

133176-35-

14

ANTI-SMUGGLING ACT

Dr. YNTEMA I do not see why it should.
Mr. COOPER. What reason do you have to assume that the other
countries would have entered into the treaty if those provisions of law

had been in effect?

Mr. HILL Will the gentleman yield to me?
Mr. McCorMACK. I yield to Mr. Hill.

Mr. HILL If I understand this proposition, the legislation here
proposed
is the enactment of provisions within the existing treaty;
IS that correct?
Dr. YNTEMA. As I say, there are three categories; as far as the

treaty vessels are concerned, that is true.

Mr. HILL In other words, the treaty is simply an enabling act. you
might say, within which this country and the other country to the
treaty can enact legislation for the control of commerce to its own

country.

Dr. YNTEMA. That is the assumption of these proposals.
Mr. COOPER. Just one other word, if I may. Is it not true that the
last act passed by Congress is a controlling act in relation to treaty

negotiations?

Dr. YNTEMA. As I understood the question, it was whether this
legislation necessarily involved a change in treaties. My answer was
that I did not see why it should. There might be reasons why this
Government, for example, or other governments might find it desirable to reconsider their treaties. The 1-hour's sailing distance, for
example, is palpably an inadequate distance, and it might be that if
proper representations were made as to the situation with respect to
particular vessels, the 1-hour's sailing distance might be extended. It
seems to me that any provision that was made in the law should con
template that possibility. I do not know that it is probable, but I say
it is a possibility.
Mr. COOPER. With all due respect-it is all probably my fault, but
the answer just confuses me further. If you have a treaty with a
foreign nation and then pass a law in this country that changes the
situation that exists under that treaty, why do you not have to negotiate another treaty with that country to make it effective? How can
you escape that very practical conclusion?

Dr. YNTEMA. It seems to me the treaty reference is in its first

section-if, for example-

there is reasonable cause for belief that the vessel has committed, or is committing, or attempting to commit an offense against the laws of the United
States

it is true that since the time when this treaty was ratified, which
was 1924, there have been one or two laws passed by the Congress of

the United States. Therefore, the phrase, offenses against the
laws of the United States as used in the treaty, probably now has a
different content. But it does not follow that because the contents
of that phrase have been changed, therefore you have to have a new
treaty.

Mr. COOPER. One more question, from a very practical viewpoint,

as I see it. It is your opinion that the enactment of this statute
would require negotiation of treaties between the countries with
which we already have treaties?

Dr. YNTEMA. I should imagine, as I said before, in the enforce-

ment-

0
ANTI-SMUGGLING ACT

15

Mr. COOPER. I respectfully submit that an answer could be made
yes or no, so that we might get something that we can take hold of
That is the difficulty I have. Every answer made confuses me more
and more.

Dr. YNTEMA. May I suggest that Mr. Hester will answer that
question.

Mr. HESTER. Let me see if I do not interpret your question cor-

rectly. You have in mind that the enactment of this proposed
legislation would repeal the treaty provisions and make it necessary
for our Government to negotiate new treaties.

Mr. COOPER. I just want to know whether in your opinion that
result would come about.
Mr. HESTER. No: it cannot, because the proposed legislation expressly excepts treaties.
Secretary MORGENTHAU. Mr. Chairman, if it is agreeable to the

committee, may I amplify my statement a little, and then if there

are any questions you would like to ask me, I shall be glad to answer
them. If not, I shall then ask to be excused.
The CHAIRMAN. We shall be glad to hear you further, Mr. Secretary

Secretary MORGENTHAU. I would like to amplify the statement that

I made in the beginning, if that is agreeable to the committee.
The CHAIRMAN. Anything you wish to submit, Mr. Secretary, we

shall be glad to have.
Secretary MORGENTHAU. I do not think I made it quite clear why
we wanted this kind of legislation.
The CHAIRMAN. That is a very important point.
Secretary MORGENTHAU. So I want to take a minute or two to explain why we feel we need this kind of legislation.

During the period of prohibition we had this vast amount of

smuggling of liquor from the high seas into this country. We were
only able to cope with it in a very limited way.

Now we can sell tax-paid liquor; that is, it is lawful to do it.

We still find that they are trying to smuggle alcohol into the United
States from the high seas.

The attitude that I took when I went after this problem of en-

forcement, and the suppression of non-tax-paid liquor was this:
I said, the fact that something had not been done heretofore or had
not been tried did not mean that we could not try it.
For instance, thanks to the last Congress, it was made possible
for us to trace the source of the molasses sugar that was being used

in the illicit manufacture and sale of whisky, and that was of tremendous help to us. One company, for instance, that was selling
molasses, we found was putting 85 percent of its output into the
hands of bootleggers. We have been able to put that company out
of business. But we had to use methods which we had never used
before, during prohibition days to combat this traffic.
Now we are faced with this overseas smuggling.
The fact that somebody said that we could not go out and take
a look at a vessel that we knew was bootlegging alcohol, that it had

never been done, was no reason why we should not try to do it.
It was no reason why we should just sit back and say, It is just
too bad, but these boats are outside the 12-mile limit and then
when a foggy night comes around they will just run the stuff in.

16

0

ANTI-SMUGGLING ACT

We had an example of that with the Mogul, off the coast of south.
ern California last year. They had the audacity to wire me and say,
If you do not let us come in and put this stuff through the customs,
we are going to run it in anyway.
I thought that was such an affront to the United States Govern.
ment that we sent 11 Coast Guard boats outside of the 12-mile limit
to hover around that boat, and we used Navy airplanes and kept a

constant watch over that boat and finally starved her out, so that
she ran out of water and had to go back to Mexico. But it was a
very expensive operation, and we do not have the equipment to do

ANTI SMUGGLING ACT

17

Mr. McCorMack. May I suggest that I yielded the floor not to my
friend from New Jersey but to the Secretary.
The CHAIRMAN. The Secretary will please proceed with his statement.

Secretary MORGENTHAU. What I wish to say in the case of Canada
is this: They have offered us every possible cooperation and have not

asked anything in return. The Canadian Government has been
magnificent in their cooperation with us in suppressing smuggling.
When the Coast Guard approaches Canadian territorial waters, we

that every time we learn that there is a rummy outside the 12mile limit. We cannot send the whole fleet out to surround that

notify the marine division of the Royal Mounted Police, and they
take up the pursuit, and vice versa. For instance, we can fly an

it, but we starved the boat out.
A few months ago, most of this smuggling of alcohol was taking
place from Cuba over to Central America, then from Central America up to this country. We approached the Cuban Government and
told them that some 800,000 gallons of alcohol per year were being

side of the border. That is something that has never happened
before in international relations. So Canada is doing everything

boat and just sit there. In this particular case it took months to do

they can to cooperate with us.
Cuba has come along. But as soon as we stop smuggling from Cuba

shipped from Cuba via some other country-Honduras- this

country. They shipped it from Cuba to Honduras and from Honduras to us. We approached the Cuban Government. They were
worried at the time about arms being smuggled from this country
into Cuba so we were able to offer them an inducement to stop
smuggling of alcohol into this country, and they stopped it. They
will not permit any boat to sail from Cuba with alcohol which they
know is going into the smuggling trade.
When we approach some of these countries they say, It is not
our job to defend your shores for you. What will you do for us!
In many cases we have nothing to offer them. They say, This
has always been the case. Boats smuggle. It has been customary
If you people cannot defend your shores it is just too bad for you.'
So our hands are tied, and just as soon as a boat sees that they
are being watched or pursued, they just drift away outside of the
12-mile limit and we cannot follow them.
Mr. BACHARACH. May I interrupt you, Mr. Secretary

a

tariff agreement.
Secretary MORGENTHAU. In connection with the Belgian agreement

gium will put up a bond that the cargo of alcohol will be landed
at the port of destination.
Mr. BACHARACH. What I have in mind is this I am speaking only

for myself and not for my party. I wonder if we should not make
a deal with them, as long as we are making a tariff agreement?
The CHAIRMAN. These reciprocal trade agreements are being made

with relation to legitimate trade and merchandise
Mr. BACHARACH, It happens that the people in New Jersey and
Pennsylvania and New York, the eastern section of the country, are
affected by this Belgian treaty. I presume even Massachusetts. the
State of my good friend. Mr. McCormack, is affected.

from one small country or one big country to another, and it is

extremely difficult to suppress them.

I just wanted to explain what my atttitude was. I then asked the

legal division of the Treasury whether they could devise some scheme
which would enable the United States Treasury to protect its revenue
pnd its shores, and this is the method which they have devised. But I

wanted to let you know that I do not care how big the Coast Guard
may be. if we have a foggy night, and there is a boat 30 or 40 miles
out, and the fog suddenly shuts down, that boat can send small boats
ashore and run that stuff in. But if on a clear day we can see a boat
30 or 40 miles out that we know is a smuggler, just as the Mogul was
a smuggler, and we know that it has alcohol on board, why should we
not be able to go aboard and examine that boat

principles of the law, think that Congress can give us that authority.
This is simply a method which they have devised to enable us to stop

Mr. BACHARACH. You were saying that we cannot offer them any-

we have asked the State Department to bring this to the attention
of the Belgian Government. that they put into effect the so-called
landing certificates which means that any boat sailing from Bel-

these smugglers shift to some other country. If we stop them from
shipping from one country. they go to another. We stopped them,
for instance, shipping from Newfoundland. Newfoundland has cooperated. They shifted immediately to some other ports. They go

Our legal division, without going into the various complicated

Secretary MORGENTHAU. Yes,

thing. We are offering Belgium quite a bit now in the way of

American airplane along the Canadian border with a Coast Guardsman and Royal Mounted Police man in it, and we can land on either

this high-seas smuggling.

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Secretary, have you as the Secretary of the
Treasury taken this matter up with the State Department
Secretary MORGENTHAU. We have taken it up with the State Department. We bave kept them posted. We have consulted with them.
But they simply felt that this was a matter of protecting our revenue
and they wanted us to take the leadership in the matter. But they are
entirely informed as to what we are doing.
The CHAIRMAN. There has been no objection raised by them?
Secretary MORGENTHAU. Let us put it this way: They have not

objected and they have not approved. I think that is an accurate

statement.

Mr. KNUTSON. Mr. Secretary, as I understand, this legislation
proposes to extend the 12-mile limit out. I want to say that I am

in entire sympathy with you. You are dealing with a crowd of

outlaws. I cannot see why we should be so very meticulous in our
treatment of them. It is my recollection that during the slave days

18

ANTI-SMUGGLING ACT

we sent frigates over to the coast of Africa to intercept slave traders,

It is my recollection that Great Britain did likewise. I would be in
favor of extending the limit 500 miles if it would put a stop to this
illegal, illicit trade in spirituous liquors from other countries. Certainly I think it is up to this committee to lend the Treasury Depart.
ment every assistance to protect the revenues of this country as well
as our sovereignty.
Secretary MORGENTHAU. Thank you.
Mr. COOPER. I assume that completes the Secretary's statement
Secretary MORGENTHAU. Yes, sir.
Mr. COOPER. I want to ask Mr. Hester another question.
The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Secretary, have you completed your remarks?

Secretary MORGENTHAU. Yes, sir. I would like to know whether

I may be excused now.
The CHAIRMAN. Of course.

Mr. COOPER. It had originally been my purpose not to interrupt
the explanation of this bill. We have drifted off so far that I want

to ask you this question, if I may. What are the treaty limits as

distinguished from the 12-mile-limit discussion here?
Mr. HESTER. The treaty limit, as Dr. Yntema pointed out, are 1
hour's sailing distance as measured by the speed of the boat. The
speed of the boat may be 20 miles.
Mr. COOPER. That is obvious, of course.
Mr. HESTER. But we have our 12-mile limit. The countries which
have entered into these liquor treaties with us have stated that they

will not object if we arrest their boats for violations of our laws
within 1 hour's sailing. But the difficulty is that our laws do not

extend beyond the 12-mile limit.
Mr. COOPER. The 12-mile limit is fixed by a statute of this country 1
Mr. HESTER. That is right.
Mr. COOPER. And the treaties provide for 1 hour's sailing distance?
Mr. HESTER. That is right.
Mr. COOPER. In practical effect, the treaty provision is on an average about double what our domestic law provides. Is not that sub-

stantially correct

Mr. HESTER. Often it is that much.
Mr. COOPER. Is the purpose sought to be accomplished here to

increase the distance embraced in the statutory limit fixed in this
country to conform to the treaty limit?
Mr. HESTER. That is correct. But the proposed legislation has one
other purpose, and that is to permit us to go beyond the 12-mile
limit, beyond these treaty limits, with respect to the vessels of those
foreign countries with which we have no treaties,
Mr. COOPER. On that point, will that necessitate negotiation of
any treaties to cover that space beyond the present treaty limita-

tions?

Mr. HESTER. I do not see why it should. for this reason. The

purpose of this bill, as you have just pointed out yourself. is to

extend our laws so that they will be coextensive with the 1-hour's

sailing distance in all of the treaties that we have with foreign
countries. There are 16. The proposed legislation does not go
beyond the 1-hour's sailing limit with respect to countries with which
we have those treaties. But with respect to countries with which we
do not have treaties, it may go beyond that.

ANTI-BMUGGLING

wamns frigates OVER to the coast of Africa to intercept slave traders.

If is my recollection that Great Britain did likewise. I would be in
famor of extending the limit 500 miles if it would put a stop to this
illegal, illicit trade in spirituous liquors from other countries. Certainly I think it is up to this committee to lend the Treasury Depart.
mont
assistance to protect the revenues of this country as well
as ourAvery
soversignty.
Secretary MORGENTHAU. Thank you.
Mr. COOPER. I assume that completes the Secretary's statement
Secretary MONCENTHAU, Yes, sir.
Mr. COOPER. I want to ask Mr. Hester another question.
The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Secretary, have you completed your remarks
Secretary
MORGENTHAU.
Yes, sir. I would like to know whether
I may
be excused
now.
The CHAIRMAN. Of course.

Mr. COOPER. It had originally been my purpose not to interrupt
the explanation of this bill. We have drifted off so far that I want
to ask you this question, if I may. What are the treaty limits as

distinguished from the 12-mile-limit discussion here!
Mr. HESTER. The treaty limit, as Dr. Yntema pointed out, are 1
hour's sailing distance as measured by the speed of the bust. The
speed of the boat may be 20 miles.
Mr. COOPER. That is obvious, of course.

Mr. HESTER. But we have our 12-mile limit. The countries which
have entered into these liquor treaties with us have stated that they

will not object if we arrest their boats for violations of our laws

within 1 hour's sailing. But the difficulty is that our laws do not

extend beyond the 12-mile limit.
Mr. COOPER. The 12-mile limit is fixed by a statute of this country
Mr. HESTER. That is right.
Mr. COOPER. And the treaties provide for 1 hour's sailing distance
Mr. HESTER. That is right.
Mr. COOPER. In practical effect, the treaty provision is on an average about double what our domestic law provides. Is not that substantially correct
Mr. HESTER. Often it is that much.
Mr. COOPER. Is the purpose sought to be accomplished here to
increase the distance embraced in the statutory limit fixed in this

country to the

is correct. But the one

purpose, that is to permit us to 12-mile

other Mr. beyond HESTER. to conform these That and treaty limit? proposed go beyond legislation the has
limit,
treaty limits, with respect to the vessels of those

foreign countries with which we have no treaties.
Mr. COOPER. On that point, will that necessitate negotiation of
any
tionstreaties to cover that space beyond the present treaty limita-

Mr. HESTER I do not see why it should. for this reason. The
purpose of this bill, as you have just pointed out yourself. is to
extend our laws so that they will be coextensive with the 1-hour's

miling distance in all of the treaties that we have with foreign

countries. There are 16. The proposed legislation does not go

beyond the 1-hour's sailing limit with respect to-countries with which
VA have those treaties. But with respect to countries with which we
o.not have treaties, it may go beyond that.

march

ANTI-SMUGGLING ACT
HEARINGS
BEFORE THE

COMMITTEE ON WAYS AND MEANS
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
SEVENTY-FOURTH CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
ON

H.R. 5496
MARCH 8, 13 AND MAY 1,2,1935

(CONSOLIDATION)
VISION

UNITED STATES

133170

GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE
WASHINGTON:1933

JSE

TOA

NO

COMMITTEE ON WAYS AND MEANS
ROBERT L DOUGHTON, North Carolina, Chairman

DAVID J. LEWIS, Maryland
FRED M. VINSON Kentucky

DANIRL A. REED, New York
ROY O. WOODRUFF, Michigan

THOMAS A. JENKINS, Ohio

JERE COOPER, Tennetace

JOHN W. BOEHNE, JR. Indiana
CLAUDE A. FULLER, Arkansas
WESLEY EL DISNEY. Oklahoma

ARTHUR P. LAMNECK, Ohio
FRANK H. BUCK, California
RICHARD M. DUNCAN, Missouri
CHESTER THOMPSON, Illinois
J. TWING BROOKS, Pennsylvania

JOHN D. DINGELL Michigan
E. W.G. HOFFMAN, Clerk
II

CONTENTS
Statements ofHester, C. M., Treasury Department
3.29.53.125
Morgenthau, Hon. Henry. Jr., Secretary of the Treasury
Parker, 8. V., Commander, United States Coast Guard
Tyrer, Arthur J., Department of Commerce
Yntema, Dr. H. E. professor of law. University of Michigan
III

:

CHRISTOPHER D. SULLIVAN, New York
MORGAN G. SANDERS, Texas
JOHN W. McCORMACK. Massachusetts

ALLEN T. TREADWAY, Massachusetts
ISAAC BACHARACH, New Jersey
FRANK CROWTHER, New York
HAROLD KNUTSON, Minnesota

2

SAMUEL B. HILL. Washington
THOMAS H. CULLEN, New York

ANTI-SMUGGLING ACT
FRIDAY, MARCH 8, 1935
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES,

COMMITTEE ON WA13 AND MEANS.

Washington, D. C.

The committee met at 10:30 B. m., Hon. Robert L. Doughton
(chairman) presiding.
The CHAIRMAN. The committee will be in order. The meeting this

morning is called for the purpose of conducting hearings on H. R.
5496, a bill introduced by the chairman at the request of the Secretary of the Treasury, on February 7, 1935.

The title of the bill is, " To protect the revenue of the United

a
&

was

minna

THE

STATEMENT OF HON. HENRY MORGENTHAU, JR., SECRETARY
OF THE TREASURY

Secretary MORGENTHAU. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen, I have a
rather brief statement to make.

Prior to prohibition this country was not troubled much with

smuggling. During the 14 years of prohibition the business of smuggling liquor into the United States from all parts of the world developed to very serious and troublesome proportions.

It was generally expected that with the repeal of prohibition

liquor-smuggling operations and frauds on our revenue would be ma-

terially reduced. How widespread this opinion was may be evidenced by the fact that the appropriation for the Coast Guard, the

first line of defense against the rumrunners, was reduced from

$25,772,950 for the fiscal year of 1934 to $18,046,400 for 1935. This

drastic reduction resulted from a belief that repeal would largely
relieve the Coast Guard of those portions of its law-enforcement
activities which were directed against smuggling. For a time after
repeal such proved to be the case, but, commencing with the spring
of 1934, liquor smugglers again appeared along our coasts, and their

operations have now increased to alarming proportions. Thus, in
March 1934, only 2 smuggling vessels were observed off the coast,

but by February of this year this number had increased to 22.

Thirty-nine foreign vessels are presently known to the Coast Guard
1

to

States and provide measures for the more effective enforcement of
the laws respecting the revenue, to prevent smuggling, to authorize
customs-enforcement areas, and for other purposes."
We are honored this morning by the presence of the Secretary of
the Treasury, Mr. Morgenthau, and other distinguished witnesses.
We should be glad to hear the Secretary at this time, if he will make
such explanation of the bill as he deems proper.

ANTI-SMUGGLING ACT

ANTI-SMUGGLING ACT

2

to be regularly engaged in the illicit-liquor traffic. Inasmuch
these vessels are hovering beyond our customs waters, they are not as

subject to seizure under existing laws, and hence they carry on their
smuggling operations almost with impunity.
Alcohol constitutes almost the entire cargo of these vessels. This
is due to several things. It is very cheap. It can be produced abroad
at costs ranging from 20 to 50 cents a gallon. It is highly concen-

trated. Two and one-half gallons of whisky can be made from

gallon of alcohol. It enjoys a large price differential due to the cus- a
toms duties and internal-revenue taxes, which amount to $13.30 on
a gallon of 190° proof.
A summary of the movements of known alcohol smugglers for the
last 4 months of 1934 indicates an outward movement from the principal ports of supply to the coast of the United States of over three-

quarters of a million gallons of alcohol. At this rate there would

be an annual movement of over two and a quarter million gallons.
The annual internal-revenue loss on this amount of alcohol, at $3.80
per gallon, would be almost $9,000,000; the loss in customs duties, at

$9.50 per gallon, would be over $21,000,000. making a total loss of over

$30,000,000.

The principal enforcement agencies engaged in the prevention of
smuggling are the Coast Guard and the Bureau of Customs. The
appropriations for the Coast Guard for 1935 are $18,346,400; those
for the Bureau of Customs (omitting the refund and drawback figures) are $18,500,000. It is estimated that of these appropriations

about 20 percent, or between seven and eight million dollars, is

properly chargeable to our efforts to prevent smuggling.

The practical difficulties in checking smuggling can hardly be

exaggerated. Our 10,000-mile coastline with the many opportunities
it affords for concealment; our comparatively small Coast Guard
force of about 10,000 men: the seamanship and daring of the rumrunners; and the highly efficient and well-financed smuggling organizations that have grown up since the advent of prohibition, are all

prime factors in making the smuggling problem one difficult of
solution. Another, and not the least important factor, is the inadequacy of existing antismuggling legislation. The ineffective legislative weapons at present at our disposal for this work have time
and time again permitted the escape from punishment of vessels
which were violating every principle behind our customs enforcement
laws, vessels, in fact, which had never earned an honest dollar in
their entire seagoing lives, but had been designed, built, and used
exclusively for smuggling into the United States.
To arm and equip the Coast Guard to a point where it could completely wipe out all smuggling by sea would be an expensive business.
But it will cost nothing to give them adequate legislation with which
to fight smuggling. The proposed legislation which your committee
has under consideration is designed to do this. It provides for no
appropriation by Congress. Its sole purpose is to give enforcement
officers of the Government adequate weapons with which to fight a
traffic that yearly is robbing the United States of millions of dollars

of revenue.

The Treasury Department has submitted to your committee suggestions for legislation dealing with this problem. These suggestions are the product of several months of work both by the experts
in the various bureaus of the Department who have had years of

3

actual experience in dealing with smuggling and also by Dr. Hessel
E. Yntema of the University of Michigan Law School, an expert in
those phases of international and maritime laws that are involved.
Representatives of the Department and Dr. Yntema are here this
morning and will be glad to render your committee any assistance
possible. I cannot urge too strongly upon you the importance of this legis-

lation. In fact, the enactment of this bill is imperative if the Government of the United States is to wipe out smuggling and collect

the millions of dollars in revenue lost annually through the successful

operations of the liquor smugglers who are now able to carry on
their illicit trade near our shores largely because of the inadequacy
of present antismuggling laws.
Mr. COOPER. Mr. Chairman, I should like to ask the Secretary this
question: I assume, Mr. Secretary, that you would probably prefer
that some of the gentlemen with you undertake a brief analysis of the
bill itself, in order that we may clearly comprehend the scope of the
measure as well as the purposes to be accomplished.
Secretary MORGENTHAU. Not being a lawyer, and this being an altogether legal matter, I would appreciate it if I may be allowed to ask
some of the lawyers who have worked on this to outline the bill.
Mr. COOPER. 1 think that is a very fair position to take, Mr. Chair-

man. I suggest the Secretary be permitted at this point to present

the witness he desires to be heard on that phase of the matter.
The CHAIRMAN. With the understanding that if later any members
desire to question the Secretary he will be available for such questioning.

1 Secretary MORGENTHAU. Of course. May I present Mr. Hester,
from the Treasury.
The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Hester, will you come forward, give your official connection, and what experience you have that qualifies you to
testify on this bill.
STATEMENTS OF C. M. HESTER, ATTORNEY. OFFICE OF THE
GENERAL COUNSEL: AND DR. H. E. YNTEMA, PROFESSOR OF
LAW, UNIVERSITY OF MICHIGAN

Mr. HESTER. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen, my name is C. M.
Hester. I am an attorney in the office of the General Counsel of the
Treasury. I would like to call up here, to collaborate with me, Dr.
Yntema.

The CHAIRMAN. I am sure there is no objection to that.
Mr. COOPER. I would suggest to Mr. Hester, as I view the situation, that it would be helpful to the committee if you would kindly
follow the suggestion incorporated in my question to the Secretary.
Mr. HESTER, I intend to do so.
Mr. COOPER. This is a new matter to many of us. We understand
the purposes to be accomplished from the splendid statement of the
Secretary. We want to know the methods sought to be employed
under this pending bill.
Mr. HILL. Will the gentleman from Tennessee yield
Mr. COOPER. I yield.

Mr. HILL. Would it not be a good idea for the witness to take the
bill up section by section and go through it that way!

ANTI-SMUGGLING ACT

ANTI-SMUGGLING ACT

4

Mr. COOPER I had it in mind for the witness to make a brief state.
ment of the manner in which the subject is treated and then have an
explanation of the bill as indicated by Mr. Hill.
The CHAIRMAN. The Chair thinks that would be a proper course
to pursue.

Mr. HESTER. As a preface to a discussion of the various sections of
the bill, I will state the general purposes of the proposed legislation.
The major purposes of this bill are (1) to extend customs control

beyond the 12-mile limit, (2) to provide for more rigid enforcement
within the 12-mile limit, and (3) to encourage reciprocal legislation
on the part of foreign countries principally by making it an offense
for our nationals and vessels to violate the revenue laws of such foreign countries as punish their nationals and vessels for violations of
our revenue laws. The proposed legislation is divided into four titles.
Section. 1, under title 1, authorizes the President, as may be required
to protect the revenue, to declare customs-enforcement areas upon the
coastal waters of the United States beyond the present customs waters

whenever he finds that such action is justified by the presence of

hovering vessels off the coast: that is, smuggling vessels.
Mr. HILL. Just so that I may have a better understanding of this-

you are taking the 12-mile limit as the limit within which you can
operate without this legislation?
Mr. HESTER. That is right. This section at the same time specifically preserves, as the fundamental principle in the entire act, the
rights of foreign vessels under the various liquor treaties; that is,
under the hour's sailing distance liquor treaties.
Except by special arrangement with the power concerned, no foreign-treaty vessel can be seized under any provisions of the proposed
legislation beyond the treaty limits.
Within such customs-enforcement areas officers of the customs may
be directed by the President to enforce any applicable law: that is,
the law must already apply. It must be there. Then the President.
by the various sections of this proposed legislation, may take action if
certain acts are committed outside the 12-mile limit, which acts are
made offenses.

Then, if it is discovered that beyond the 12-mile limit we find

smuggling vessels hovering with impunity, maybe just a few miles
beyond the limit, the President is authorized to declare that particular limit a customs-enforcement area and to direct officers of the
customs to seize the vessels, to board them, search them, and if
they have violated the law, to bring them into port.
The effect of the customs-enforcement-area provision is not designed to extend any law of the United States but to permit a flexible administrative control of enforcement on the high seas of such
laws as already extend beyond customs waters.

This is designed to answer the possible protest of any foreign
power that the provisions of the proposed legislation violate any
principle of international law.

Mr. HILL. I did not quite get that. Would you mind repeating

that
Mr. HESTER. This is designed to answer the possible protest of any
foreign power that the provisions of the proposed legislation violate

any principle of international law. A little later on we will discuss

that question of law.

5

Under section 1, extension of customs control into the high seas
be limited by administrative action-that is, by the Presidentmay to those areas beyond the 12-mile limit, where smuggling operationsit

are particularly and notoriously troublesome. This will make

unmistakably clear that the proposed legislation complies with the
requirement that extraterritorial jurisdiction provisions be reasonably necessary to the protection of the revenue and the national
welfare.

Now, just briefly for a moment to stop here, so that the chairman
and the members of the committee will see the questions of law pre-

sented by this first section. We expect to supply you with authorities which establish the proposition that a nation is authorized to
extend its customs control such distance from its shores as may be
reasonably necessary to protect its revenue and the general welfare;
and, I say, we will supply those authorities to you as we go along.
Section 2 (a) of the bill subjects to a fine of not more than $5,000,
or to imprisonment for not more than 2 years, or to both, any person owning in whole or in part any vessel of the United States or
controlling it, directly or indirectly, who permits such vessel to be
employed in smuggling merchandise into any foreign country if such
foreign country provides any penalty for violation of the revenue
laws of the United States. Persons on board assisting in such smuggling activities are subject to the same penalties, and the vessel itself
is subject to seizure and forfeiture.
Section 2 (b) makes it an offense to charter a vessel with actual or
implied knowledge that the vessel is going to be used for the purposes
prohibited by section 2 (a).
This whole section is designed to encourage legislation on the
part of foreign countries penalizing their nationals and vessels for

violating our revenue laws. It is modeled after a Norwegian law

of June 25, 1926.

The necessity for that will be obvious to you when we take a hypo-

thetical case. Outside our 12-mile limit, we will say, are notorious
rumrunners, flying foreign flags.
We appeal to the foreign country. They say, "We have no laws
which prohibit our vessels from violating your laws."
So the purpose of this section is to initiate reciprocal legislation.

That is, we make it an offense to violate the laws of a foreign
country by our citizens and our vessels in the hope that they will

enact reciprocal legislation.

Mr. McCorMACK. You say, in the hope." Is this for the purpose
of bringing about negotiations with these foreign countries, or what
is the purpose?

Mr. HESTER. No: the purpose is to enact this legislation.
Mr. McCormack. There is a big difference between hoping and

enacting, as you know.

Mr. HESTER. Oh, perhaps I did not make myself clear on that
We ask that this legislation be enacted because we hope that the
foreign country will enact similar legislation.
Mr. LEWIS. You mean, this provides the inducement

Mr. HESTER. That is right.
Mr. REED. May I ask this question Has there been any assurance
given that they will cooperate at all!
Mr. HESTER. May I ask Dr. Yntema to answer that question?

ANTI-SMUGGLING ACT

6

The CHAIRMAN. Will you state for the record who Dr. Yntema is
Mr. HESTER. Dr. Yntema is professor of law in the University of
Michigan and an authority on international law, who is assisting us
in connection with this bill.

Dr. YNTEMA. My understanding is that the question asked is
whether, if this proposed section 2 (a) were enacted, similar legislation would be enacted by other countries.
Mr. REED. The question is whether any assurance has been given,
either formal or informal.
Dr. YNTEMA. As far as I know, there has been no formal assurance, of course. It was, however, stated informally that there was a
chance: that one of the difficulties that the Government had in dealing with the problem resulted from some of the limitations in its own
legislation, and one of the limitations was the fact that there was no
provision under which the Government of the United States could
take any measures to suppress illicit activities on the part of American citizens, for example, who were engaged in rumrunning into
Canada. The suggestion was made that Norway has a statute of this
general character and that it would be a good thing to facilitate the
negotiations to incorporate this provision.
Mr. REED. Would you mind telling us for the record, unless it is
against the public interest. which nation is the most flagrant violator
I do not want to press the question if the information should not be
disclosed.

Mr. HESTER. Commander Parker, will you step forward and give

the committee that information May I say to the committee, this

is Commander Parker, of the Coast Guard.
The CHAIRMAN. Commander, can you answer the question asked
by Representative Reed
Commander PARKER. The vessels employed in rumrunning and
hovering off our coasts are almost exclusively under the British flag.
Mr. HESTER Does that answer the question?
Mr. REED. Yes.

Mr. HESTER. Section 3 subjects to forfeiture when found at any
place where it may be examined by an officer of the customs in the
enforcement of any revenue law (1) any vessel, foreign or domestic,
built or fitted out for the purpose of being employed to defraud the
revenue or to smuggle merchandise into the United States or into

such foreign countries as have reciprocal legislation of the type
already discussed, or employed within the United States for any such
purpose, (2) any vessel of the United States employed at any place
for any such purpose.
For the purpose of the section vessels which are de facto owned
or controlled by American citizens or corporations are deemed vessels
of the United States.
Also for the purposes of this section the fact that a vessel is dis-

playing certain typical indicia of smuggling activities, such as not
stopping as required to by customs officers, or hovering suspiciously
off the coast of the United States. or failing to display lights, raises
the presumption that the vessel is being employed to defraud the
revenue of the United States.
This section is patterned after an old statute relating to piratical
vessels. It is believed that this statute will prove very useful since
the build and dimensions of smuggling craft are, in almost every

ANTI-SMUGGLING ACT

7

instance, a give-away of the nature of their illicit activities. This

section will also stimulate reciprocal legislation by other countries.
Section 4 authorizes collectors of customs to revoke or refuse to
document (i. e., to register, enroll, license, or number) any vessel
when it appears, from its build or otherwise, that the vessel is going
to be employed in smuggling. At present this authority does not
exist even though the master of a vessel on applying for documentstion should announce that he were going to use the vessel as a rumrunner. This section is also reciprocal in that it will serve as a base
for requests to other powers to take similar action.

Mr. HILL Were your remarks directed to American-registered

vessels entirely, or did you include within this scope the vessels of
foreign registry
Mr. HESTER. This would be devoted solely to American vessels.
Mr. HILL. Why would that induce reciprocal legislation by foreign
governments!

Mr. HESTER. We are revoking the registry of American vessels for
violating foreign laws, and they might do likewise.

Mr. HILL. I thought you had reference to their operations within

the waters of the United States.
Mr. HESTER. No. It would extend beyond. I am glad you brought

that point up. Thank you.

Section 5 permits vessels forfeited for violation of the revenue laws

to be destroyed whenever the Secretary of the Treasury is of the
opinion that they are likely to be returned to the smuggling traffic
if sold.

At present forfeited rumrunners, being practically useless for
legitimate commerce, are sold very cheaply at condemnation sales,
usually to their former owner or some other rumrunner, and in the
majority of cases return shortly to the liquor traffic.

Mr. REED. I am sorry to interrupt, but

Mr. HESTER. We are very glad to have you interrupt, sir.

Mr. REED. Just to clear up some point in my own mind. As I

understand the law, 3 miles is now the limit fixed by international
law, is it not?

Mr. HESTER. The 3-mile limit is the limit within which under international law a country exercises exclusive and absolute jurisdiction.

Mr. REED. Exactly. Under the tariff act that I have here, section
581, boarding vessels, enforcement provisions, that is when this so-

called 12-mile limit" went into effect.

Mr. HESTER. No; the 12-mile limit went into effect as long ago as
1790.

Mr. COOPER. What was that!

Mr. HESTER. The 12-mile limit with reference to customs administrative control has been in effect since 1790.
Mr. REED. Just one moment. This 12-mile zone-was that created

by treaty or by statute
Mr. HESTER. By statute. After we have finished the bill we hope
to be able to supply you with some authorities of the Supreme Court
which uphold the right of the United States to extend its customs
control not only to the 12-mile limit, which has been on the statute
books since 1790, but which also would permit the United States. if
necessary to protect its revenue, to extend its limit beyond the 12-mile
zone.