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Book No. - 399
continued

from

Page 252

252

Final draft.

Discussed at Secretary's house at

6 pm, Sunday, May 18, when Mr. Doughton and Mr.
Cooper were present.

253

STATEMENT OF JOHN L. SULLIVAN, ASSISTANT SEGRETARY
OF THE TREASURY, BEFORE THE COMMITTEE OR WAYS
AND MEANS OF THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES,

NORDAY, MAY 19, 1941

My purpose today is to discuss with you the
problem of corporate taxation in the present emergency.
What I shall have to say is supplementary to the statement made by Secretary Mergenthan when the current

hearings were opened and to the suggestions laid before
you subesquently on behalf of the Treasury Department.
The treasury is called upen to most expenditures

greater than have ever been ands in the nation's
peacetime history, and probably greater than at any

period in our history, in peace or war. AS such a
time we cannot expect to rely on normal sources of
revenue or be content with revenue in normal amounts.
We must adopt extraordinary measures to deal with our

extraordinary situation.
Your Committee is now formulating changes in our

tax system, both to provide the revenues needed to
finance the defense expenditures that we are committed

to make, and also to assist in maintaining the
economic health of the nation. Our people know that

254

-2great secrifiees must be made and they are prepared

to make then They rely upon you se to plan our
financial program that, however severe its burdens

may have to be, they will rest fairly and justly
upon all individuals and all businesses.
The tax program which you will prepose will
necessarily consist of many elements. Any one tax,

viewed by itself, may appear to be stringent. All
must be viewed, however, as parts of a whole. This
is an emergency. Taxes that would not be proposed
in normal times are a necessity new.

I have been asked particularly to discuss the

excess profits tax, first enacted in the fell of 1940.
Our experience with 18 is still limited, for many of
the returns of the largest corporations have not yet
been filed. Enough have been filed, however, to
convines Treasury officials in charge of tax administration that important changes in the law must be

sade in the interests of fairness. We are colleeting
large sums by means of this tax, but the profite of a
good many business fires are not being touched by the tax,

255

-although some of these prefite are excess profite by

say reasonable standard. Here is certainly a place

to breaden the base. Surely the skill of this
Commissee and its exports is adequate to the task

of bringing within the tax the known eases of corporate
excess profite.

I want first to outline the principles which I
believe should govern the taxation of excess profits;
second, to indicate respects is which the present law

fails to accord with these principles; and third, to
suggest possible remodies which the Congress may wish
to consider.

I - Principles
Under present conditions some kinds of profits
may be appropriately subjected to heavier taxation
than other kinds. This may be necessary is order to

distribute the burden fairly and to avoid unfavorable
economic effects that might result if the revenue
were raised is other ways.

1. Defense profite
The first type of prefite which, in a period of
this kind, should be subjected to special taxatics
comprises the prefite which may be reasonably

256

attributed to the defense program. Such profits are
being made out of the secrifiess of the people as a
whole and should be returned to the people is taxes,
insofar as may be possible without destroying necessary
incentives to produce defense goods.

In many cases 11 is not possible to identify
with precision the additional profits due to the defence
program. The effects of defense spending are diffused
throughout the whole economic system. It is necessary,

accordingly, to assume that in general, increases in

profits during this period are due to defense. Inability
to measure defense profite precisely should not discourage us from subjecting them to special taxation
even at the risk of hitting some income not derived
from the defense program.

2. Profite is excess of a necessary normal
return OR invested capital
The other kind of profit that can properly be subjested to special taxation comprises profits is excess
of a necessary normal return on invested capital,

257

-5even if this return was being earned in the years
prior to the defense program. The existence of such
profits, while often due primarily to good management,
is in sumerous eases due to monopoly, imperfect
competition, OF fortunate circumstances, and not to

any outstanding service to the public. When as a
result of the imperfections of our economic machinery
such excess profits have been made, 11 is equitable

and desirable that they be subjected to special taxation.
Furthermore, at a time when heavy taxes must be imposed

they should be levied where they will assist best in
maintaining a well-functioning economy. To take an
additional share of the profits in excess of a normal
return on invested capital will not cause any companies
to go into bankruptcy OF withdraw from business.

I as aware that the anticipation of extraordinarily
large profits may in many cases have put security prices
well above a figure that would represent invested

capital. The imposition of these special taxes may
sees harsh to individuals who have purchased those

258

- -6securities at such levels. We must remember that
no legislation is ever passed and no progressive
step is ever taken which does not disturb expectations
of some people. We submit that established expects-

tions of high profits are entitled to no more protection than an individual's expectation of a continued
large salary which is now to be subjected to a such
heavier tax. This is an emergency, and changes aust
be expected.

I am also aware that the application of the
principle of taxing profits in excess of a necessary
normal return on capital involves difficulties of both
principle and technique. These difficulties should not
be underestimated, but I feel sure that we should not
allow them to stand in the way of our seeking to attain
the main objective.

II - Defects of the present law

In the light of the principles just stated, let
us now examine the excess profits tax law passed last

year, to see in what respects, if any, 11 fails to
correspond to them.

259

-7 - -

1. Failure to peach large parts of Reference profite
The Excess Profite Tax Act of 1940 was a clear
expression of Congressional intent that profite growing
out of the defense effort should be subject to excess
profite tax.
The law, however, has not achieved that objective.
Many corporations that are the principal beneficiaries
of the defense effort and that hold large government
contracts are paying 115510 OF no excess profite tax.
In the absence of complete excess profits Sex
returns an examination has been sade of published

financial data for certain corporations. One company
whose profite is 1940 were more than 3,000 percent

larger than in 1939 is subject to no excess profite
tax whatever on 1940 earnings and this 10 a company

which has thus far received over 670 million of defense
contracts. A large industrial company which has received
over $250 million of defense contracts and had earnings

is 1940 of nearly 200 percent larger than in 1939 will

pay no excess profite tax. It appears that only 5 out
of 12 large integrated steel companies will be subject

260

.8to excess profits tax on the income of 1940, although
steel companies have in general received hage amounts
of defense orders.

These companies pay little OF no excess profits

tax because they are allowed a nialesa credit of
8 percent of invested capital.

2. Failure to tax profits in excess of A
moreal

Another serious shorteening of the 1940 excess

profits tax law is that profite in excess of a accessary
normal return on invested capital are not subject to
the tax unless such profits also represent an increase
over the profits of the base period. Companies which
earned during the base period an average of 30 percent,
50 percent OF even more on their present invested

capital will be free from the excess profite tax on
income in any year equal to approximately these percents

and will be taxable only on increases is their incomes.

This failure of the law to reach a large portion
of excess profise is due to the provision of a credit
for every corporation equal to 95 percent of its base
period earnings, regardless of the sise of these

earnings in relation to its invested capital.

261

-9III - Remedies

Revisions of the excess profite tax to be considered adequate, must reach the two kinds of profite
which I have been discussing. The tax can reach a

such larger proportion of defense prefite If there is a
reduction in the 8 percent credit on invested capital.
Profite in excess of a necessary normal return eas be
reached by taxing all profits above a stated percentage

of invested capital, regardless of average base period
earnings.

These were the basic elements of the Treasury

excess prefite tax proposal of 1940, and 18 is this
plan, with medifications dietated by experience, that
we suggest. In that proposal corporations were to be
allowed free of the excess profite tax an amount of
earnings equal to their earnings during the base period,
but not more than 10 percent of invested capital. Howover, they were granted a minisus credit of 4 percent of
invested capital with s persent allowed on the first
$500,000. Thus, under that plas a concern which earned
7 percent during the base period would be allowed to

continue to earn 7 percent free of tax. A concern which
earned only 2 percent during the base period would

262
- 10 be permitted to earn 4 percent free of tax. A concern
which earned 15 percent during the base period would

be allowed to earn 10 percent free of tax.
Under the 1940 Treasury proposal it was recognised

that If business is to expand and investors are to put
money into new corporations, an opportunity must be

allowed to earn an adequate rate of return on new

capital. The plan allowed an 8 percent return on new
capital, with a 10 percent return up to $500,000,
regardless of the earnings experience during the base
seried on old capital.
If the plan submitted by the Treasury last year
had been applied to the examples previously presented,

the tax results would have been quite different. For
example, one corporation which had a 30 percent return on its
invested capital in the base period would have paid excess

profite tax on over half of its 1940 income instead of
on one-twelfth as under the present law. Another with a
slightly lower rate of return would also have paid on over
half instead of on one-fifth of its income. The large
industrial company which received over 1250 million
of defense contracts would have paid excess profite tax on
over one-third of its income and the other company with
poor earnings is the base period would have paid on

263

- 11 about one-fifth of its income instead of both
companies being entirely exempt.

Even this plan, however, would have failed to
reach substantial amounts of defense profits received
by corporations which had especially poor earnings
during the base period. To meet this defect we would
suggest revising the 1940 proposal to provide that
where the average earnings of the base period were less
than the minimus of 4 percent, the excess prefite Sax

should be applied at a low flat rate, possibly 10 percent,

to that part of the current profite that is in excess of
the base period earnings but not is excess of 4 percent

of invested capital. For example, If a corporation
earned during the base period as average of $100,000 a

year, while 4 percent of its invested capital amounts

to $300,000, the first $100,000 of profite in the
suppent taxable year would be entirely exempt from

excess prefite tax, the next $200,000, representing
the difference between the $100,000 average earnings

and the $300,000 credit on invested capital, would be
taxed at 10 percent and any earnings over $300,000

would be subject to the regular excess profite tax

264
- 12 -

rates. This sinious rate of tax would subject all
increases in profite during the defense period at least
to some excess profits taxation without unduly burdening
concerns whose increased earnings are not truly defense
profits.
We would suggest also that the rate allowed on

now capital be the same as that originally suggested,

namely, 8 percent, with 10 percent for additions to

capital that do not bring the total invested capital
above $500,000. Any maximum return on capital must be

& somewhat arbitrary figure because businesses differ

widely in the degree of risk they face. Accordingly,
18 is desirable not to set too low a saximus rate of
return.

Similarly, 11 would be desirable to keep the tax
rate low on that part of profits which is immediately
above the credit. To this end we suggest that tax
rates be graduated in accordance with the rate of
return on invested capital starting with a moderate

initial rate
Koreover, with this new broad excess profite base,

it would be possible to adapt ourselves quickly and

265

- 13 such more easily to a need for still larger revenues 18
the emergency should so require. The future is especially
uncertain during an emergency period, and we eight have

to act quickly. It is better to have a broad excess
profits tax base carefully worked out while we still
have the time than to patch up the present law and

take the risk of finding ourselves confronted with the
accessity of improvising such a base on short notice
at a later date.

Thus far I have outlined the principles of excess
profits taxation which in our opinion should be followed
in this emergency period and have indicated ways in

which the existing law fails to carry then out. If
you share our belief in these principles, I believe
you will agree that a plan like the one I have outlined
is the logical method of putting the principles into

practical operation. Variation in details is not a
matter of concern, so long as the plan adopted taxes

both defense profits and excess profits, which to
something the present law does not do.

IV. Possible alternatives

If these principles are not to be the guide for
taxing corporations during the emergency period, it

266
- 14 would be well to bear in mind the disadvantages of the

tax in its present form, which involves the administrative difficulties inevitably accompanying excess profi ta

taxation but fails to tax large amounts of profits that
it properly should reach. A simpler, more easily administered plan would, of course, be to abandon the excess
profits tax and to increase the corporation income tax
by enough to produce the desired revenue. with such an
increase in the corporation income tax there should, in
as judgment, be coupled a provision for reducing the
tax when the earnings of the corporation are immediately
made subject to the individual income tax.
This kind of a plan would be in harmony with the

idea of integrating the corporation and the individual
taxes, placing chief relience on the taxation of income
of individuals Profiting from our experience with
previous plans of this general character, many difficulties previously met can very likely be avoided and
equitable taxation of profits to the individual stockholder provided.

I do not set forth this plan as one that carries
into effect the principles which 1 previously discussed.
It is based on principles of its own and is suggested
as an alternative, not a substitute.

267

- 15 when I first appeared before the Committee in
executive session and discussed this tax program with

you generally, I told you that I thought there were
certain types of durable commodities, such as electric
refrigerators, automobiles, watches, cleake, and
caseras, the reduced consumption of which would be

helpful to national defense, not only because the
plants are adaptable to defense work, but also because
the saterials used in these commedities are used in
defense articles and the workses who manufacture these

things are possessed of the very skills that are needed
is anny of OUR defense plants. During that first discussion
different members of the Committee expressed the view

that taxes on some of these articles should be higher
than were recommended and I assured them that we would

not object to some increases on these particular articles.
Since that time there has been se such discussion about

various excise taxes that I think I should repeat to you

what I said before - that I do believe these articles
are the type that 18 10 highly desirable to tax not only
for revenue but also to reduce desande for goode which
compete with the defense progres.

268

- 16 We cannot expect to devise a painless tax bill,

The situation calls for secrifiees. As Secretary
Morgenthan has already told you, we have had unmistakable

evidence that the people are willing to make secrifiese

according to their ability. Outside the tax field groater
sacrifices are being asked and cheerfully made. There

is no basis for comparing the secrifiee of those who
are asked to exchange the security of a job and a home

for a soldier's pay and a soldier's hardships with the
secrifiee of those who are asked to pay even directically
higher rates of San.

269

May 19, 1941
9:00 a.m.
H.M.Jr:

Operator:
Leon

Hello.
Mr. Henderson.

Henderson:

Yes, Henry.

H.M.Jr:

Good morning.

H:

Good morning.

H.M.Jr:

Leon, I wanted to have a chance to sit

down with you as soon as I could, as soon
as you were free and go over the statement

that Sullivan is giving this morning, and
for your information the President went
over it word for word and it has his 100%
approval. Now what's a good time for
you today?

H:

H.M.Jr:
H:

Well, anytime after 2:30.

Well .....
Or if it's important this morning I'll

cut out - I'11 start out and rearrange

and try to get some time between - at
10:00 o'clock.
H.M.Jr:

Well, here's the point. There's no hurry
as long as you can withhold any comments
until you and I have a chance to sit
down because

H:

H.M.Jr:

Well, I can do that.

If this morning is tied up, then - I

have press at 3:00. You're busy right
after lunch?

H:

Well, I could be there around 2:30.

H.M.Jr:

Well, that'11 be fine. Half an hour
ought to be plenty.

H:

All right.

270

-2H.M.Jr:

H:

H.M.Jr:

H:

H.M.Jr:

And I'll send the statement over to you
now, but I want

I'11 be there at 2:30. I'm at 2000

Massachusetts, Henry.

I see. What I'm aiming for is a united
front towards the public.

All right.
We've just got to have it.

H:

Fine.

H.M.Jr:

At 2:30?

H:

H.M.Jr:

2:30. I'11 be over at your place at 2:30.
And I'll send the statement over to you
now.

H:

All right.

H.M.Jr:

Thank you.

H:

Fine, Henry.

271

May 19, 1941

9:30 a.m.

GROUP MEETING

Present:

Mr. Haas

Mr. White
Mr. Thompson

Mr. Cochran

Mr. Foley

Mr. Gaston
Mr. Graves
Mr. Kuhn
Mr. Schwarz

Mr. Sullivan
Mrs. Klotz

H.M.Jr:

When do you go up, John?

Sullivan:

I go on at ten, sir.

H.M.Jr:

You will be interested to know that Mr. Eccles
is coming here at eleven, at which time I am
going to have a heart to heart talk with him
and ask him if he can't say something nice
about your statement to say nothing, and
Mr. Henderson at two-thirty the same thing.
I think my chances are ninety-nine percent of
being successful, so I don't think you are

going to have to worry. I mean, I will be

amazed. I have already asked Henderson. I

said, "Let's have a united front and do our

fighting inside. I don't think you will have

to worry about it.

272

-2What are the things, Mrs. Klotz, that you
have for me to check with these people?

Harold, here is a suggestion. Have you
gotten the one about -Graves:

Yes.

H.M.Jr:

That is too early yet.

Graves:

I thought you might want to talk with us about

H.M.Jr:

that at ten-fifteen, among other things.
These things are all this morning. Mr. Bell
is up at Coast Guard so this can wait until
tomorrow.

Herbert, you were going to draft a letter for
me, for my signature, to the President, relative
to amending the Coast Guard Bill provisions
making it obligatory to transfer Coast Guard
to Navy in case of war.

Gaston:

Yes, such a letter was drafted and I thought
I would let the Coast Guard people see it and
Waesche is considering it now.

H.M.Jr:

Well, when do I get it?

Gaston:

Waesche gets back on Wednesday.

H.M.Jr:

Well, are we going to wait that long?

Gaston:

I could let you see it right away. I thought
I had better get their opinion about it.

H.M.Jr:

Well, I have got certain reasons I would like
to clean it up. You can talk to him on the
phone, can't you?

Gaston:

Yes.

273

-3 H.M.Jr:

See if you can't give me a report at nine-

Gaston:

Yes, I will do that.

H.M.Jr:

This one is dead. And this is on me, following

Sullivan:

What has happened on that?

H.M.Jr:

Nothing. The pressure is on me.

thirty tomorrow.

that up with Jere Cooper.

Herbert?
Gaston:

I haven't anything this morning.

Foley:

We want to get together on that Lease-Lend

H.M.Jr:

Well, here is the latest from the President

agreement sometime this week.

on it. (Handing memorandum to Mr. Foley,

dated May 16, 1941)

You read this. I will work you in somewhere,
Ed.

Well, the point is, I simply thought I would

acknowledge that from the President and simply

say I take it that that rescinds his previous
letter, and send a copy - I would be very
glad to have Mr. Hull do it. What?
Foley:

Yes.

H.M.Jr:

I will be very glad to have Mr. Hull do it

and glad to cooperate with him. Read it and
give it back to me.
How are you (Sullivan) feeling?

Sullivan:

Swell.

274

-4H.M.Jr:

Fighting Irish?

Sullivan:

I am all ready for it.

H.M.Jr:

What have you got, a chart behind you?

Sullivan:

No, haven't you heard about these Defense
Bonds? (Exhibiting "Buy Defense Bonds" sign.)
(Laughter)

H.M.Jr:

Well, you go any time you feel like it.

Sullivan:

Then I will go right along.

H.M.Jr:

Good luck.

Sullivan:

Thank you.

H.M.Jr:

Go ahead.

Cochran:

Mr. McCloy telephoned on Saturday and gave

us more information on those contracts the
Army is going to take over and so on, and

they give their position again now that they
won't go further on the contracts unless
they get a clearance from the White House.

I will give you a memorandum on it this

morning.
H.M.Jr:

Have you seen the memorandum from Keynes?

Cochran:

Yes, sir. I made copies and distributed one
to Mr. Coe and one to Mr. Foley and one to

Mr. Bell's office.
H.M.Jr:

Well, on that, just as soon - you see, the

Director of the Budget is coming over here
Wednesday morning at nine. Now, if we could

have all this thing together plus his testi-

mony, you see, plus what I have said, just
very briefly, about the three or four hundred

275

-5 million dollars we were going to take over
both before and after Smith's testimony,

you see. If we could get that all together,

then I will sit down with you men sometime
tomorrow and go over the whole thing, plus -

I mean, I will try to tie the thing up so I

can say to Smith, "Well, here is the situation
and when you made the statement that" - which
everybody says - "that is why we won't take

over any more contracts, did anybody tell you
to do that?'

Now, McCloy said the White House said they

didn't want it?

Cochran:

No, Secretary Stimson said he wouldn't feel

like going beyond forty-nine million that
they are taking the British out on contracts
without an O.K. from the White House.

H.M.Jr:

How many million?

Cochran:

Forty-nine point six million.

H.M.Jr:

Well, have we got a figure from Jones yet?

Cochran:

No, sir, we have not.

H.M.Jr:

Well, see whether tomorrow Bell can't get a

Cochran:

It is. No, no that is different. That is

figure from Jones. I have been told that
Jones was going to take fifty million. Maybe
it is the same thing.
on plants and forty-nine on contracts.

H.M.Jr:

Well, let's get it cleaned up and find out

where it is, but Hopkins says if anybody
quotes him as saying that he was not in favor
of taking this over, to use his language,
"He is a damn liar, so I want to find out I
from Harold Smith where did he get it.

276

6-

understood at the time that he just didn't
know, he did it out of ignorance.
Cochran:

There is one thing. Your statement that they

are referring to in the Keynes memorandum was

an interview with Phillips on March 19, and
the only record we have of that is the Stenotypist's record.

H.M.Jr:

Well, Mrs. Klotz --

Cochran:

If you could let us have that.

H.M.Jr:

Well, ask - what he said?

Cochran:

No, what he said and what you said. That is
what the British pin this whole thing on.

H.M.Jr:

All right. March 19?

Cochran:

Yes, sir.

H.M.Jr:

Let White work with you on that.

Cochran:

Certainly. That is all.

H.M.Jr:

But if you and White and Bell can sort of
clean that up for me tomorrow so that tomorrow
I can have a clean-cut story to put before
Harold Smith Wednesday, you see.

Cochran:

Coe and I went over it as far as we could on

H.M.Jr:

All right. Anything else?

Cochran:

No.

H.M.Jr:

Did you get off my telegram?

Cochran:

Yes, sir.

Saturday, so I will talk with Harry about it.

277

-7Kuhn:

I have nothing.

H.M.Jr:

How is Irving Berlin?

Kuhn:

Fine as far as I know. He is still working

H.M.Jr:

on that song.

Was it fun?

Kuhn:

Lots of fun.

H.M.Jr:

How many fingers can he play with?

Kuhn:

I think he plays with all. He sings in a

H.M.Jr:

Who else was there?

Kuhn:

Just Harford Powel and I.

H.M.Jr:

It must have been lots of fun, wasn't it?

Kuhn:

very wheezy voice. (Laughter)

He sang us a few more which haven't anything
to do with Defense Bonds. He throws his head
back when he sings and gets very excited about

it. He will be down soon again.

H.M.Jr:

Well next time he must do it for me. Is the
song any good?

Kuhn:

I think so. It is the kind of thing dance

H.M.Jr:

He has taken a ten year old song and dusted

Kuhn:

bands will be playing.

it off?

He has done more than that to it. He has
just taken a phrase out of a ten year old
song and applied it to this new one and written
a lot of new words and new tunes, and I think
it is good.

278

-8H.M.Jr:

Is he interested in it?

Kuhn:

Very much.

H.M.Jr:

You are coming to this ten fifteen meeting,

Kuhn:

H.M.Jr:

aren't you?

Yes.

I would like Haas to come to that too, because

Haas:

I am going to talk statistics.
Here is that revised list.

H.M.Jr:

Oh yes. And you know we begin tomorrow on

Haas:

Yes.

H.M.Jr:

This is an interesting figure.

Haas:

Here are the figures on Allison. They made

H.M.Jr:

Oh, they are beginning to turn them out?

Haas:

It looks like it now, yes.

H.M.Jr:

this financing.

forty of those new models.

I would like to see those. They have got
everybody just blocked, these Allison people.

Haas:

All right.

H.M.Jr:

I am amused when I hear Bob Patterson talk

about as though he discovered the trouble with

Allison and all the rest of them. He has just
sent a man out there now to look the plant

over.

George, I turned down a job for you. I hope
you are not angry. Hopkins wanted to know

whether I thought you would like to go in on

279

-priorities over there, on the priority

group, and I told him I was sure that you
didn't.

Haas:

Thank you. You are absolutely right.

H.M.Jr:

If I am wrong, why --

Haas:

No, sir.

H.M.Jr:

Somebody must have been singing your praises.

Haas:

I am glad to hear that, but I am more glad to

H.M.Jr:

All right.

stay here.

Chick, I referred the Wall Street Journal to
you yesterday.
Schwarz:

We took care of it and told them this morning
they could have John's statement.

H.M.Jr:

There were no leaks?

Schwarz:

No. Would you care to see any more of those

Baltimore Sun pieces or shall I just hold them
in the book?

H.M.Jr:

Hold them in the book, that is right.

Schwarz:

I have a few others.

H.M.Jr:

Just let me have them, whatever you have got

there. You know, if you get any questions on
Sullivan's statement from this end while he

is on the Hill, let Roy Blough handle it.

Schwarz:

All right. He will stay here?

H.M.Jr:

I don't know.

280
- 10 -

Harry, I am coming back to you last. I

thought we would have a little time and you

White:
Thompson:

might tell us a little bit about your trip.
All right.
I have taken care of the expenses of Magill
and Shoup. Was Knollenberg --

H.M.Jr:

No, he was down in the Army. He was O.K.

Thompson:

Well, Shoup is taken care of.

H.M.Jr:

And that thing about these two people being
accused of being Communists, I read it very,

very carefully. I read yours, I read Foley's,
I compliment you on it. I thought Irey's
statement was pretty terrible.

Gaston:

Those Revenue people in New York, those two

girls?
H.M.Jr:

Yes. And another friend of mine read it and
spent a lot of time on it and - I understand
you (Gaston) read it, too.

Gaston:

Yes, Norman and I discussed the thing and
came to the conclusion it was dead.

H.M.Jr:

Well, I have decided that the case should
be killed. The evidence is not conclusive.

The Commissioner came in here and recommended

that these two girls - there are two girls

that are supposed to be Communists - and I

think, Herbert, if you would take hold of
Elmer Irey and have a little talk with him,
you see --

Gaston:

Particularly with this case.

H.M.Jr:

Yes.

281

- 11 -

Gaston:

Well, our recommendation, Norman and I,

was distinctly that this be dropped, that
this case was dead.

H.M.Jr:

He and his men have too much the idea of
the OGPU, the questions they asked.

Gaston:

Yes, I know.

H.M.Jr:

It is too much, and I think if you could have

a nice little talk with him and just explain
the thing to him. It is one thing to go after
criminals. Let me ask you just for my own
education. Under the Hatch Act, does it
specify you cannot be a member of the

Communist Party?
Foley:

Well, if you are a member - the Hatch Act
says if you are a member of a party, the
purpose of which is to overthrow the form
of Government in this country, then you are

automatically fired, but they didn't prove

that those people were members of the
Communist Party.
H.M.Jr:

I know they didn't.

Foley:

That was my point.

H.M.Jr:

Well, Mrs. Klotz, if she doesn't mind my
quoting her, said, "If they put half as much
energy into finding out who the Nazi sympa-

thizers are in the Treasury, I think you
would get some results."

If they put in just half - this fellow got

heart trouble because he worked so hard on

this case and had to go to the hospital. It

is the damndest nonsense I ever heard in my

life. He worked so hard he got heart trouble
and had to go to the hospital.

282
- 12 Gaston:

H.M.Jr:

Foley:

Who was that?

Whoever the agent is.

I got kind of excited about the case. I
thought it was not the kind of thing I would
like to see going on in the Treasury, and I

told Norman and that if they could do that
to some innocent, defenseless little stenographer way down the line, they could do that
to any one of us and build a case up on us
without an opportunity to be heard; and those
girls weren't given an opportunity to be heard,
just dismissed from the service, and it was
wrong.

H.M.Jr:

I am glad to hear it, and I think it is up

Gaston:

Yes.

H.M.Jr:

Isn't he?

Gaston:

Well, nobody knows. For investigative

to Herbert, because Irey is under him.

purposes, yes.
H.M.Jr:

Well, for this purpose please consider him
under you.

Gaston:

Foley:

Yes, I will have a talk with him.
Well, I have seen that kind of stuff before.
I saw it under Glavis in WPA. That is the
same sort of records they were trying to build
up on people over there and get them out of
the service.

Gaston:

Of course, this law and the interpretation

of it that membership in the Communist Party

requires dismissal troubles me a little bit.

283
- 13 H.M.Jr:

Well, let's go into that again.

Gaston:

But that has been pretty thoroughly studied.

H.M.Jr:

And who are - the one that particularly

bothered me, you (Thompson) referred it to
two members of the personnel committee in

the Chief Clerk's office.

Now, who were those two people?
Thompson:

Birgfeld and Harper.

H.M.Jr:

You know, you fellows won't let me throw

Birgfeld out. Now, I read that thing and
a man who will write a thing like that, he
is all palsey-walsey with all these people,
now, if that is the personnel committee who is he responsible to, me?

Thompson:

He is responsible to me.

H.M.Jr:

Norman, you have got to do something about

it. am fed up with it. I read that

and
for
those
two
a
thing, I just people personnel to write committee
thing like that, it is a

of what? What are they personnel committee of?
Thompson:

H.M.Jr:

It has been the committee that has existed

for twenty-five years.

If you don't mind, they don't exist from
this minute on. I don't want Birgfeld to
have anything to do with personnel. It is
outrageous. I have tried for years - send

him some place where he hasn't got anything

to do - but for him to be on a personnel

committee, it is a reflection on you,

Norman.
Thompson:

Well, I have realized for some time --

284

- 14 H.M.Jr:

Well now, I have asked for years, and you

and Bell won't let me do it because, if
you don't - I mean, it is a question of
friendship and that whole butter deal and
all that stuff, that man should have been
moved out of there at that time. Now he is
there in black and white. You will have to
move on it.

Thompson:

Well, I will take care of it.

H.M.Jr:

Well let me know, who is the other man that

Thompson:

Mr. Harper.

H.M.Jr:

Who is he?

Thompson:

He is in the Personnel Division.

H.M.Jr:

Those aren't the kind of fellows that

signed that?

represent me or represent the New Deal,

and you will have to just clean house and

do it very quickly, please.

I have been harping on this thing and harping

on it. I don't know who Harper is, but I

know who Birgfeld is and I am just sick and

tired of it and you will have to move on it
and it is a direct reflection on you and on
Bell because you both have stood up - well,

it is all right to stand up --

Thompson:

There is very little that that personnel

H.M.Jr:

But they shouldn't get in on anything.

Thompson:

Well, they --

H.M.Jr:

I may be too tough, but this has been --

committee ever gets into.

285
- 15 -

Thompson:

H.M.Jr:

They won't get in on anything more.
Well, I want to know what assignment Birgfeld and Harper will have from now on. I
admire friendship and I admire loyalty, but

this is just too much.

Thompson:

H.M.Jr:

Well, they are out as far as this committee
is concerned right now.

Well, will you let me know what their duties
are and then I would like to know who will
be the people that would review cases like

that. I want somebody who thinks the way you

do and the way I do and takes an attitude that
this is a Democracy. I want to squelch that
kind of thing in the Treasury.
I would like to know - have a report from you
what happens to Birgfeld and Harper and when

things come up for review, things like that
in the future, who is going to pass on them.

Thompson:

Well, Charlie Bell and I pass on them.

H.M.Jr:

But below you, who goes on below you?

Thompson:

The Director of Personnel.

H.M.Jr:

Has he come on?

Thompson:

Not yet. I am having a fight with the Civil

H.M.Jr:

Well, until he comes, who is going to handle

Thompson:

Well, Charlie Bell and I will handle it.

H.M.Jr:

Service Commission about it.
it?

Because your report was all right. Elmer is
a detective. I don't expect him to necessarily
have a social outlook, but his record is so

286
- 16 -

magnificent that he can do one thing like
this and the ninety-nine other things he
does makes up for it. He is a detective.
He is not supposed to be a -Thompson:

H.M.Jr:

I can assure you right now that as far as
Birgfeld and Harper are concerned, you have
no cause to worry, because their other duties
are more important.

Well, I want a written report what their
duties are. I want to know what their duties
in the Treasury are.

Gaston:

Harper keeps the personnel records. It is
quite a voluminous, detailed thing.

H.M.Jr:

But why should two men like this write a
report that these people should be fired?

Thompson:

Well, they agreed with the Commissioner and

H.M.Jr:

all the Revenue people, but they didn't
influence me at all.

But you are in my office, you are part of me,
and these fellows supposedly are a part of
me, and they don't represent me and I don't
say fire them, but get them to shoveling coal
or something.

I mean, they should have been put out of
here a long time ago, and let somebody get
busy in finding all the Nazi sympathizers
in the Treasury and the Fascists and spend
the same amount of time that they did on
those two poor girls. I would like somebody
to do that.
Thompson:

We get lots of reports on Nazis and investi-

gations are being made. We don't get much
evidence on them, but I have had a few cases
where there were doubts, and I have taken

287
- 17 -

the employees out of confidential positions
and put them in positions where they would

be harmless, but we are watching it pretty
close.

H.M.Jr:
Thompson:

All right, Norman.
I have one other case here. Mr. Pehle has
recommended a deferment for Mr. Towson.

Towson is his first assistant, and he is
very valuable and needed there.
White:

He is, Mr. Secretary, a very valuable man.

Thompson:

Mr. Gaston and I feel the situation justifies

White:

He has one of the key positions in the Foreign

H.M.Jr:

Is this the man that was with the bank, Harry?

White:

That is right, and he is supposed to be part
of the Reserve Officers Intelligence Corps,

a deferment.

Funds Control.

I thought. I don't know whether that is
indicated here.

Thompson:

That is right, Military Intelligence, Second

White:

Yes. But he is a very valuable man to Pehle.

H.M.Jr:

What has he been called up for, to be Second

Thompson:

Yes.

H.M.Jr:

Why don't you handle it the way we handled
Kamarck? Ask through General Marshall's

Lieutenant.

It would be difficult to replace him.
Lieutenant?

office if a man doesn't lose his status if
it may be postponed until December 31. If

288
- 18 he can be postponed until December 31, you

see. And then I don't know whether he wants
to go or not.

Thompson:

No, I think he wants to stay with us.

H.M.Jr:

Well, get one until December 31.
Now, Harry, come up. Do you mind sitting

here? I can't see you.

White:

I saw numerous projects, NYA, CCC, WPA, and

the Office of Education. One gets a very
mixed picture as to the efficiency with which
they are operated, but a rather general
picture as to the extent to which the entire
program contributes to the main objective

of - the present objective, which I take it
is preparation of adequate training for
defense purposes.

From that point of view, the CCC camps - I
saw a sample. I saw several, but from my
reading and interviews and from what I saw,
I gathered that they are more or less the same

with respect to their general efficiency and
administration, which is excellent from my
point of view with the particular companies,
but from the point of view of their contribution to a present emergency, most of them

are a negligible factor. There are unquestionably numerous CCC Camps who are

doing important work even at present with

respect to prevention of fires in forests
and somewhat similar work, but a good deal
of the work, while justifiable under normal
conditions, could hardly be justified under
present conditions and notwithstanding the

fact that their enrollment is being - it

appears rather rapidly curtailed and they

are finding difficulty in getting each of the

289

- 19 companies up to their maximum, I still think
that there is room for a very, very substantial
cut so far as expenditures on present work
is concerned, and a substitution of the
equipment and the men, possibly, for other
types of defense training.
Again from the point of view, not of making

use of the youth under any circumstances,

but of the utilizing the men and the money
and the equipment for training for defense.
So much for the CCC, briefly.
WPA, I find that - and some of these things
that I am saying may not be at all new. They
are new to me. I mention them because they

impressed me. I find that probably half of
the WPA are unemployables, either because

they are too old, the number of people over

fifty-five or sixty is astounding - I am getting
some more figures to see whether the samples

I saw are indicative of the whole, and a great
many others are physically incompetent. Many

of the better ones have been getting jobs in
the last year and that makes those that are
remaining contain a larger proportion of unemployables and that group is - should be

as
a
or
as
a
The other half - roughly

problem. regarded permanent problem of the other, relief

half, some are doing good definite defense
work, which should be paid for out of defense
expenditures.

One brief illustration, I saw them constructing
an airport. They do the unskilled work,
assuming that it was a necessary airport and
was certified by the War Department, that is
a regular part of defense expenditures and
they were working
full time, not
part
time.
been extended.
Their
total

were equivalent to would

weekly The time wages had what and for they that

be getting under ordinary work,

to be called WPA work doesn't seem to make sense

to me. Now, there are another large portion of
employables -

290
- 20 -

H.M.Jr:

White:

Excuse me. What is the wage scale that they
get?

They were getting thirty-seven cents and thirty-

nine cents for unskilled, and the semi-skilled

get, I think, forty-nine and sixty-three.

There are variations. It is a little less than
they would get in private industry. Their

earnings are normally less because they only are

supposed to work - I think it is sixty or eighty

hours a month, but they are trying to expedite

these projects, justly so, so they are putting
them on full time so that their monthly earnings are not far from what they would get if
they were out in industry and if those jobs
were to be done.

Another substantial part of the WPA are presumably working on defense work. They are

certified projects, but their work is of a

character that I doubt very much whether the
Army or the Navy could justify in the appro-

priations bill, and I don't think they would
spend the money if they didn't get the work
for nothing. They are painting houses, they
are straightening out things to make the
Navy Yard look better, or they are fixing
up roads that are not absolutely essential
to have fixed. Now, there is some work on
golf links and tenniscourts and things of
that kind that probably constitutes a minor

portion, but it sort of exaggerates the part

of the work which seems unncessary. How
much of the WPA workers are of that character,
I do not know, but my guess is, based on what

I saw, that a very substantial portion of the

work is of a kind which we can get along
without perfectly well during the emergency
period, assuming that these men can be given
work on other important work.

So either they belong in the unemployable and

291

- 21 relief group or the defense ought to get
adequate appropriation to do necessary defense work, and the remainder constitutes
another problem of available labor supply

that is not utilized.

The NYA program is quite spotty. They are

just getting into the construction of these

standard - so-called standard shops which is

a quickly built satisfactory building housing

machinery, new equipment in part, part used
equipment, lathes and work machinery, presses,

et cetera, where they are going to train any-

where from sixty to two hundred persons a
day. They were going to work some two shifts

and some three shifts. The instruction is

fairly adequate, but the work which is being

given is very superficial. They don't claim
anything else.

H.M.Jr:
White:

What is the hook-up with Studebaker?

Studebaker is now being put apparently in
charge of both this program I am speaking of
and the program which supposedly is similar
but in which they use schools, high schools,
vocational schools, and others, and in which
they permit older men and people who are not
on NYA to receive training.
The NYA presumably, is for youths of eighteen

to twenty-five who are eligible for NYA.

H.M.Jr:

But they are just getting started?

White:

Well, for the most part, they are just getting
started. And their training, I think, must be
regarded as quite superficial. In the Office
of Education it utilizes the schools, et
cetera Some of them give good courses. Many

of them are also superficial. Some provide
additional training for WPA at night, during

292
- 22 -

night hours, which doubtless is of some value,

but they have just gotten going. The Office
of Employment, which in my mind and the

opinion of others, apparently, plays a key

role in the allocation of labor and the

utilization of labor, is very bad. It must

be a Federal organization instead of depending upon state employment agencies, and much

of the scarcity of labor which is appearing
in many spots is due to the fact that the -

our Employment Bureau is not a Federal agency
and is not equipped and adapted to handle the

problem on a national scale as it would like
to and as it should.
Now, merely to summarize, I think that from
the point of view of making available our

present skilled, semi-skilled labor supply
for tasks of defense and our training of

youth and of retraining of people who have

partial skills for the defense needs which
will appear during the next year or two,
and an over-all picture of exactly what

skills will be needed and how many men will
be needed in each of those skills and how

long it takes to train them and what facilities there are for training them, I think
those three aspects of the problem taken
together are completely inadequate for the

kind of tasks that lie ahead of us.
H.M.Jr:

You are going to write this up, aren't you?

White:

I would like a couple of more days to talk to
some more people on the over-all, see what
figures and data they have available, and

then prepare a report for you.

H.M.Jr:

Well, you have got to prepare a report and

be sure that your report is up to date, you
see.

293
- 23 -

White:

Well, that is one thing. I didn't have up-

H.M.Jr:

You have got to get it, and I told Harold
Smith I would show it to him. He did have

to-date data.

people on NYA. He has investigated NYA

recently. But I can get you in touch with the
people in his office who have made any reports, you see, and then Mrs. Roosevelt wants

to see it. Of course a copy goes to the

President.

So it is out, you see, that you are out.
(Laughter)

Was it you that told me that McNutt checked
up with Harold Smith?
White:

Harold Smith told me that.

H.M.Jr:

Well, anyway, so whatever we are going to do,

I will want to go over it very carefully
with you and it is a question of this. Either
will be - I, so to speak, am off the spot
because I didn't have to go up to testify.

I will be leaving here Friday, and I hope to
be gone for a week. I don't want Chick to get

it out. I will explain to you eventually

how, where, and why. I hope to leave here

Friday night. I hope to keep it until I am

gone for a couple of days. So I am doing my
financing and I very much doubt whether I can

get to it intelligently until I come back,

Harry.
White:

Well, the longer the better, because from the

point of view of the over-all picture, as you
indicated and as I certainly feel, I would
want to be pretty careful, and I want to talk
to these people.

294

- 24 -

H.M.Jr:

And then there is this thing the President
shot up which nobody knows about, including
Mrs. Roosevelt, where he asked for a hundred

and fifty odd million to set up thirty

thousand workshops for NYA, something like
that.

White:

Thirty thousand? It is an awful lot. They

are setting up some of those standard workshops.

H.M.Jr:

Well, you had better get hold of that bill.

My guess is, you see, with my financing - I

would like to do something on Maynard Keynes'

thing this week if possible, you see, and not
being on the spot myself, you can really have
the next two weeks on it.

White:

Well, I would very much like to have that.

H.M.Jr:

Because people know about it, and it has got
to be good.

White:

I certainly want it to be.

H.M.Jr:

If you had something for me to take with me
where I am going, I could read it, you see.

White:

I certainly will have something preliminary.
That doesn't touch on agriculture on which I
didn't do anything during the week in the
field, but I have thought about it and had

the boys working on it, and that is very dif-

ferent. I feel very definitely there that all
that business ought to be cut completely out
of the budget and which would save some five

hundred million dollars and, instead of that,
a hundred million dollars ought to go to the
Farm Security for the poor farmers, because

the poor farmers - which is the mass of farmers.

295

- 25 -

I use the word "poor", but over eighty-five
or ninety percent of the farmers are not getting any advantage out of the present system.

H.M.Jr:

But, Harry, when I came back, I think it was
from Jamaica, I said one of the things that

I want to do is this thing of helping the

poor farmers get a home and give them thirty

or forty years to pay for it. I have always
been for that, and I have heard this criticism. "You see, this thing went to the

American Farm Bureau people and the well-todo."

White:

Well, they don't represent the mass of farmers.

H.M.Jr:

Now, one thing, if you would check up, and I
don't know how much - George, didn't I ask
you to look up the testimony of Ed O'Neal who

said that - didn't I ask you that?

Haas:

Yes, sir, you did, and you said Miss Chauncey
had some documents. Well, we went all through
it. There were seven points you mentioned

that you might use. I can find a list of seven
points, but they are not usable things, and I
looked through his testimony up on the Hill,
and I couldn't find anything that might be
used.

H.M.Jr:

All right, well if you - I want to do the

agricultural thing, and another thing, George--

Haas:

I did do this, Mr. Secretary. You asked me
to break down those accounts by years. I

have that.
H.M.Jr:

Good. Whatever you have got, collaborate with
Harry and vice versa.

And the President raised a point. He said he

296
- 26 -

didn't know - in this parity payment, this
parity payment is the figure before or after
the benefit payment? He said that in his
press conference, that he didn't know.
Am I right, Chick?

Schwarz:

That is right.

H.M.Jr:

He says,"Which comes first?" In other words,

if the parity payment is thirteen cents, then

you get your two and a half's benefit payment
Haas:

on top of it.
I don't think one is related to the other.

H.M.Jr:

Well, your man from New Orleans certainly
would know.

How is cotton - to start at six cents and then
so forth and so on, but I thought - I want to

give you two men this - I read this somewhere,

and I thought it was terribly good. It is a
criticism of our agricultural program. They

say we haven't got the guts to say, "Well,
there is no export market," talking in terms
of cotton, and therefore we reduce the cotton
to an amount we can consume in this country.

So we go along in the middle of the road raising five or six million bales more each year
than we can consume or that we can sell and

we build up an artificial price which is at

least twice the world price, and when we want

to buy domestically, we have to pay this artificial domestic price at the same time that
we shut our eyes to the fact that there is

no world market. I think that is a very fair
criticism.

White:

With this important supplementary factor which
you doubtless have in the back of your mind,

that if you reduce your cotton output by five

297
- 27 -

million bales, it would come mostly out of the
small farmers, and you would throw out of any

kind of a possible living so large a proportion of the South that you have to take care
of them.

H.M.Jr:

But Harry, I am not saying I subscribe to it.
I am simply saying we have got a wishy-washy

policy which doesn't recognize the fact that
there is no world market. We have the arti-

ficial price. I belong to the school of plenty.

I don't belong to the school of scarcity, you
see.
Haas:

They lost the world market, Mr. Secretary,
before the war.

H.M.Jr:

True, but don't misunderstand me. I belong

to the school of plenty and not the school of

scarcity, so it isn't - I am just pointing
out the thing that I read, which I think is
fair criticism.

Well, I will look forward - and the agricultural thing, keep pushing, Harry, will you,
and George too?

White:

I will do that, and I take it I have your per-

mission, something I want to do, I want to

talk with Lubin and Aubrey Williams and some

of the others so that when the report does
come out, if they have any criticisms, we
will know about it ahead of time, and see if
we can meet it.

H.M.Jr:

And if I had the time, I would love to have

White:

is, boys, let's have a little meeting."
It would be an excellent idea. I think that

a dress rehearsal at my house, and I would
love to have them come in and say, "Here it

298
- 28 time could be had since you are giving me
a couple of weeks.
H.M.Jr:

It is worth it.
Now, one thing, Norman, would you find out

who are the men who made the so-called Friedman

Case in Atlantic City, you see. I would like

to write them letters. I would like to get

them promoted and some more money. Whoever
the men who made the Friedman Case are. And

also a letter to the United States District

Attorney.
Gaston:

That was in the Nucky Johnson Case.

Foley:

A fellow by the name of Frank.

H.M.Jr:

Whoever it is, the boy should not - a letter
is very nice, but I want to give them a promotion.

Foley:

May I bring up one thing? Eddie called this
morning early and said that a passenger on
this Egyptian ship that was sunk by the name

of Michael Clark was very close to him. He
is somebody on "The Nation." He wanted to

know whether or not we could find out if there

is a list of survivors, if he is one. Could

Merle contact the State Department?
Cochran:

Yes.

H.M.Jr:

Yes. Will you do that for me? He was very
helpful to me lask week.

Foley:

Michael Clark.

Cochran:

May I mention just one thing on cotton. I read
a report from our Consul General in Montreal
to the effect that the Brazilian cotton was

299
- 29 coming in and cutting ours out completely or
maybe twenty percent. They are paying in

sterling to Brazil now.

H.M.Jr:

Well, may I point out to you when we were

signing the trade agreement to Brazil, I

wrote the State Department and asked them to

include in that a limiting clause of the amount
of cotton Brazil would grow, and they just
threw it out the window. How many years ago

was that, Harry, three?
White:
Haas:

Three, I think.
B. A. E. recently put out a report, Mr. Secretary on that whole thing. They critize the
Agricultural Adjustment Administration, another
bureau in the same department.

H.M.Jr:

Well, I just want to say this. Doughton just -

let me take a minute because this is important.

Doughton went at me very hard. He was very
much upset about this whole thing, you see.
Cooper liked it as much as Doughton didn't.
He went after me.

"Now, what about this economy? You came up

and said you could save a billion," and Cooper
said, "No, he didn't say that. When he was

asked, he said, 'I think I can save a billion."
"Well, did the President say you could?"
"No. But I went back and told him, and he

said, O.K. The President said it was all

right.

Well, I won't go all through the thing. But
out of that came - I said, "Now, after all,

you will never get anywhere until the Appropriations Committee and the Tax Committee

sit down together," So Doughton is going to

300
- 30 -

try to get the Speaker to invite Barkley, the

Speaker, Chairman of the Appropriation Committee, Ways and Means, Director of the

Budget, and the Secretary of the Treasury
to come down to the White House and say,

"Now let's get together and do it."

So I said, "Now, Doughton, let's understand
each other. I am going to keep shouting from
the housetops to save. As long as the President says he is satisfied and as long as you
people say to me, 'Morgenthau, please stop

It - oh, no, no, no, keep it up!" I said,
"All right, and the President seemed satisfied. All right. Granted it isn't my
responsibility, but it is my responsibility

to keep shouting as long as you fellows tell
me not to, and I am going to shout, but I
can not come up and give you the specific
recommendations, and that is up to somebody

else. But I am going to keep the yell up for
economy on non-defense until the President
asks me not to or somebody from the Hill in

responsibility asks me not to."
Doughton says, "No, keep on shouting. It is

all right.

Foley:

Mike Monroney, a young fellow from Texas, came

in to see me one day last week. He said there
were forty or fifty young New Dealers in the
group up there that would like to follow up
if you wanted to give them any information or

if you wanted to be cooperative. I told him
I didn't know.

H.M.Jr:
Foley:

On what?

On that economy, on where they can save and
how.

H.M.Jr:

Well, I am going to wait now until I get White's

301

- 31 -

report, until I have a chance to let my

friends and his friends criticize it, get it
right, show it to the President first. I

wouldn't do that without speaking to the
President, but in the meantime, of course,

it is all to the good. Harold Smith is

annoyed, but he is getting busy. I just want
to wait now until I get a chance.
Foley:

He just wanted to let you know they would be

willing to work with you, and if you wanted
to do anything we should let him know.

White:

I hope it is clear, Mr. Secretary, that aside

from Agriculture, the expenditures on the other
items are, from my point of view, wasteful because they are not meeting the program, that
what you might end up with in your own mind,

I think what you have in your mind, is that a

more adequate program is necessary, but it is
saving in the sense that the money you do
spend leads to the objective that you want.
H.M.Jr:

White:

Harry, I am willing to back spending any
amount of money to make this country strong
inside and out, but as long as I have got
breath, I am going to shout against waste.

That is the point. Well, we see eye to eye

on that.
H.M.Jr:

And as I say, I haven't quite got up my nerve
yet to shout about the waste in the War Department, but they tell me that is the place where
there is more money wasted than anywhere else.

But I will get my nerve up gradually as I get

my facts. But I want to get my facts. But

this Madam - this Mrs. Keynes was here. She

is this Russian Pavlova or whatever this

Russian dancer is. I sat next to her the
other night at dinner. She bubbled and effervesced, and she said, "Oh, this country, it is

302
- 32 so rich and so wasteful," which sums up a

lot. (Laughter)

303
TREASURY DEPARTMENT
INTER-OFFICE COMMUNICATION
DATE

TO

May 19. 1941

Secretary Morgentnau

FROM Mr. Cochran

At the Staff meeting this morning Mr. Foley reported the inquiry of Edward
Greenbaum concerning Michael Clark of New York who was reported to have been a

member of the British-American Ambulance Corps, traveling to Alexandria, and a
passenger on the Egyptian steamship ZAMZAM, whose loss was reported this morning.

In accordance with the Secretary's instructions, I telephoned Mr. George
Brandt, Head of the Special Division in the Department of State, at 10:45 this
morning and asked that any information which may become available concerning

Mr. Clark be telephoned to my office. Mr. Brandt promised to give us anything
received. Incidentally, he mentioned that Justice Feli* Frankfurter was also
inquiring concerning Mr. Clark. The State Department has no information so far

concerning this.

304

May 19, 1941
10:15 a.m.

RE DEFENSE SAVINGS BONDS

Present:

Mr. Johnston
Mr. Sloan
Mr. Callahan
Mr. Powel
Mr. Houghteling
Mr. Haas

Mr. Graves
Mr. Kuhn
H.M.Jr:

Harold, how would you like to do this thing?

Graves:

I should suggest that Mr. Johnston and Mr.

Let the men talk or let me ask some questions?

Powel tell you. That was your request to
me the other day. Tell you what they are
doing and then you ask them questions as
they proceed.

H.M.Jr:

All right, let's start with Johnston.

Johnston:

Well, we have a skeleton organization or
organizations being created in eleven states.
Six of them are on the way more definitely
than in the other five. Do you want the names
of those states?

H.M.Jr:

No.

Johnston:

They are creating organizations in these
states with the governor as the honorary

305

-2chairman, with a chairman of a state

committee, a state committee worked out

by the State Administrator, who in most
cases is the Collector of Internal Revenue,
and they get together and pick out a committee of very prominent people representing
the various lines of industry and labor and
agriculture, women's groups, in those states.

In several of the states they have very good
committees. Some are large, some are small.
We have left that more or less to the individual states, to the size of the committee
that they want to function.
Then the state organizations are sponsoring

similar organizations in the cities and in

the towns throughout the state. In some
states they are using a method of organizing
by counties, where the counties are very
large in area. In some, they are organizing
by towns.

For example, in Missouri the latest report
was that they had organized eighty-nine
cities and towns with functioning organizations.
In Texas, according to the last report, they
have about two thirds of the counties of the
state with organizations. These local organizations are going to the people of the various
cities, functioning through the mayors, who
is honorary chairman, and in turn the city

committee represents various groups of business
and organizations in the town, and they are

carrying the message to all the people of

that community. That is their task that they

have before them.

I have attended several of these meetings.
Mr. Graves has visited Michigan and in most

cases we have been very much pleased with the

306

-3response. In some cases, we are not so

pleased. That seems to be true of all
volunteer organizations. Some will function
well and some will function in a mediocre
fashion.

Our task will be, as we get the organizations
put together, to put some - the necessary
pep into these organizations. We feel that
when they get into full action, we will have
a great many buyers of these securities.
H.M.Jr:

Now let me ask you a couple of questions.

Johnston:

All right.

H.M.Jr:

Take any state which is partly organized,
one of the things I am anxious to do is to

definitely reach the factory workers.

Johnston:

Yes, sir.

H.M.Jr:

Have we worked out in any state a systematic

method of going to every factory, contacting
the workers and the management, so that we

can say, "Well, if it is on a county basis
or a town basis, out of this town we have

contacted every factory and so many have or
so many haven't agreed to work out a method

with the workers, say to them that they will
put so much of their payrolls into these
bonds"?

Johnston:

We shall do that in two states as an experiment,

H.M.Jr:

Now, are you going to have any paid people
so we can make it really systematic?

Johnston:

We do in each state have a deputy administrator

Massachusetts and Minnesota, and we are starting
today on those organizations.

who will assist the State Administrator.

307

-4H.M.Jr:

To make a systematic check of every factory?

Johnston:

Yes, sir.

H.M.Jr:

I am particularly interested in that.

Johnston:

I am delighted to hear you say it. That, of
course, we feel is the most important thing
we can do. We feel that sixty percent of
our market will come from payroll savings

plans where factories will be willing to
cooperate with the employees.

I should tell you that a great many corporations
are doing it. General Electric, Metropolitan
Life, New York Life, and A. T. & T., the Lincoln
National Life, the Federal Reserve Banks, of
course.

H.M.Jr:

Well, that is all to the good, but what I
feel is, I would like to have this thing really try it out just the way you are doing
it in a systematic way and if you find a

technique which works, then we can copy it

all over the country. But you have got that
started?

Johnston:

Oh, we worked out the technique for the

H.M.Jr:

But I mean systematically so that you can say
in Minnesota or in such a town in Massachusetts
in so many weeks or months, we will contact

Federal Reserve.

every single factory in the state.

Johnston:

Yes, sir. We have the technique worked out

H.M.Jr:

And that you will know what they are really

for it.

doing.

308

-5Johnston:

Yes, sir. And we will know the number of

H.M.Jr:

Well, that is the principal thing that I

employees that accept such a plan, too.

have in mind, and that I wanted to find
out, whether you wanted - and if we do this
once a week, which I would like to do - I
would like to get a report, I mean, of what
progress we are making, particularly in that

field.

Johnston:

I had a report from Texas which will be of
interest to you. Many, many firms there are
working out just these plans. They are doing

it on their own hook, really. It is more or

less voluntary, because we haven't pushed it.

Mr. Graves suggested Friday to Mr. Sloan and
Mr. Powel and me that we work out a very

definite plan and put it in printed form

and send it out and that is being done. They
worked on that all day yesterday.

H.M.Jr:

Now, in connection with that, the other thing,
are we going to have a news letter so that if,
for instance, you find that such and such is
a good scheme and you can write it up and

get it to the people, the field workers,
are you going to have a --

Johnston:

We were going to call it a news letter. That
is prepared and is being revised. I went

over it Friday and wrote quite a few things
for it and then we wanted a re-preparation
of some of the material. That is about
ready, and we have a man in charge of it
who is gathering the information and preparing

it.

H.M.Jr:

That will be a weekly thing?

309

-6Johnston:

I should say weekly. We thought at first
we would make it every two weeks, but weekly

is much better. That is the system that we

have always used, is weekly in the business
and the campaign side of it.
H.M.Jr:

Now, you will have to have two different

Johnston:

Yes, that would be an excellent idea.

H.M.Jr:

I want one for the postmasters.

Johnston:

All right, sir.

H.M.Jr:

After all, the thing that you are - you can

kinds because I want one for the postmasters.

say, "Well, here is something that went well, here is some publicity devices, here
are some sales devices that went well with
the factories and should interest the postmasters."

I think you ought to have two different

letters, one going to the postmasters and
one going to --

Johnston:

One will be a purely field letter, we thought,
just telling them methods that other states
are using, and the results that firms have

had in this payroll savings plan, firms that
put it in, and bring the field men up to date

also on the publicity, which has been excellent
and which they have as a background and which

they can use and refer to, you see.
H.M.Jr:

Now, will the Post Office Department let us
do it direct or do we have to do it through
Frank Walker?

Graves:

Well, I haven't thought of that at all. We
would certainly have to go down there and

talk that over with them.

310

-7H.M.Jr:

Will you? And then, is there some way I know this is going to be hard - that we
can get some kind of a rating for these
people, those postmasters who do well and
those who don't?

Johnston:

It would be a fine thing if we could.

Graves:

I think it has always been done on the baby

Sloan:

bonds.

A chart showing where they stood in their
class and in their state. We have always
sent that out once a year.

H.M.Jr:

I would like this once a month.

Sloan:

Right along, yes, sir, show where they stand
in competition with fellows in their same
grade and class.

H.M.Jr:

Once a month. And then is there some way of
rewarding the postmasters who do better than
others?

Graves:

Only by reporting to their chief, the Postmaster General, who doubtless would write
them commendatory letters.

H.M.Jr:

A letter is very nice, but how about a little
cash?

Graves:

No. Under the Postal setup, the compensation
of postmasters is based upon Postal revenues.
There is no way they can supplement it.

H.M.Jr:

No way of getting little prizes, say, for a
good Idea?

Graves:

I wouldn't think so.

311

-8H.M.Jr:

Well, think about it,Harold. After all,
when I first came in - it isn't exactly
the same thing, but it is trying to hit

the bull's eye - we had nothing. Some of
the men hadn't shot a revolver in ten years

until I came along, and we have got them

all shooting in teams, competition and that
business now, and we have got cups. I don't

know how it is all financed, but I paid
personally for one of them.

Graves:

You paid for the cup that they all compete
for every year.

H.M.Jr:

We have got them now that they are competing
in teams, and meet fellows and gosh"I am on

this local team and I am going down to Atlanta
to compete and I am going down to Florida," and

everybody is interested. We give them a little
red ribbon that costs about two cents and that

kind of thing.

If we could get the postmasters competing

for something, if it isn't too much, I would
contribute myself, but I think if we get
these postmasters going and reward them

with five dollars for the best idea on how
to sell stamps and so forth. I want to put
the pressure on. I want to begin to put
the pressure on. As I see the thing, there
are two groups. One is the Post Office group
which do one job, and the others are, for
a better name, the Industrials.
Graves:

You might be interested --

H.M.Jr:

I want to begin to put the pressure on.

Johnston:

All right, sir.

Graves:

Mr. Morgenthau, right now the banks are

312

-9selling more bonds than the Post Offices,

even the E bond.
H.M.Jr:

Well, that is good.

Graves:

It is about three to one, I believe, two to

one at any rate. The volume of the E bond Post Office sales of the E bond through the
sixteenth has been ineteen million eight
hundred fourteen thousand, and bank sales

of the E bond were thirty-two million nine

hundred fifty-one thousand.
H.M.Jr:

Say that again, will you please?

Graves:

Post Office sales of the E bond through the
sixteenth have been nineteen million eight
hundred fourteen thousand, and bank sales

of the E bond have been thirty-two million
nine hundred fifty-one thousand.

H.M.Jr:

How about the number of pieces of paper that

Graves:

Units?

H.M.Jr:

Yes. Are they the same ratio?

Graves:

they sold?

I don't have those figures, but the average
sale per transaction in the E bond is somewhat higher in the bank than in the Post
Office.

H.M.Jr:

That is what I thought. I would be interested

Graves:

We have that. I just didn't bring it with me.

H.M.Jr:

I think you will find they sell more in the

in how many unit sales we have.

Post Office. I mean not more, but the proportion would be one to two.

313

- 10 Johnston:

The banks have been very cooperative.

Graves:

The number of customers is higher in the
banks. My point of course was that any
system of rewarding or awarding prizes of
any kind should naturally include the banks.

H.M.Jr:

Oh sure. I am just - up to now, I haven't
said this to you that I wanted to put the
pressure on, but I want to begin to do it.
Then I would like to try to do this every
Monday, if possible.

Johnston: All right, sir.
Powel:

You know the publicity is an impossible thing

H.M.Jr:

Oh.

Powel:

We have got three sections. The press, where
you had the head man and gave it out for a

to talk about briefly.

long time; radio, which is in the hands of
Mr. Callahan; and motion pictures, which are
in the hands of Mr. Dietz, who will be here
tomorrow whenever we have made a room for

him downstairs with his motion picture films
complete, which begin with your talk in

Mr. Sullivan's office, then your sale of

the first bond, and now have got into the
Hollywood area and will be shown at all
theaters in the country.

H.M.Jr:

Including the Harold Graves Theater?

Graves:

Would you like to take a look at these
pictures tomorrow?

H.M.Jr:

Yes, sure.

Powel:

What time would be convenient tomorrow?

314

- 11 H.M.Jr:

Well, if Harold will ask me at nine-thirty,

I will tell him. I will do it sometime

tomorrow afternoon. Is your theater running?
Graves:

I think it will be ready tomorrow. I haven't

Sloan:

I think it will.

H.M.Jr:

Is he here only one day, Dietz?

Powel:

He can be here more.

H.M.Jr:

checked lately. How about it?

Well, make it dependent - if the theater
isn't ready Tuesday, if he will do it Wednesday.
I can always drop out.

Powel:

I just wondered if you would be available.

H.M.Jr:

I will be available either Tuesday afternoon
or Wednesday. Wednesday would be a little

bit better, even, but I would like to see
them in our theater downstairs.

Powel:

It is right here.

H.M.Jr:

Right below me.

Powel:

I believe it has been wired for sound and
everything.

H.M.Jr:

Oh yes. It is known as the Harold Graves
Theater. (Laughter)

Powel:

I didn't know that. Now, would you like to

H.M.Jr:

Yes, I would.

Callahan:

We are running something in the neighborhood
of three thousand announcements per day on

have Mr. Callahan say a few words on radio?

eight hundred fifty radio stations. We are

315
- 12 running about four announcements a day in
foreign languages and on about two hundred

radio stations. We are running on commerciallysponsored shows about twice a day.

Now, that carries us through the month of
May. In the month of June we go into one
minute transcriptions, movie stars, dramatic
skits, straight announcements, and a musical
program of one minute.

Now, that briefly is our radio program.
H.M.Jr:

Well 80 far - have you got much competition

Callahan:

We have had a lot of competition, but I think

H.M.Jr:

Really?

Callahan:

I am quite sure we are. Stations have notified
us so far that they have used up in the first

from within the Government?
we are running number one.

two weeks, thirty thousand separate announce-

ments.
Powel:

May I give the reasons for that? I made a

little canvass of it. It was the enormous

flattery of your letter to the individual

stations. Eight hundred fifty were sent out

over your signature. You were kind enough
to sign one.
H.M.Jr:

I think that is what it was.

Powel:

Over five hundred came back. I had the damndest
mess of --

Callahan:

Six hundred twenty is the largest number of
replies ever received.

316
- 13 Powel:

And I want to suggest that to improve

relations with the press in the case of

the thousand or more small town newspapers,

trade journals, I am not thinking of the
large metropolitan press, but the local

grass-root press, if you would be kind enough
H.M.Jr:

to approve a similar letter.
I should love to.

Powel:

Which Mr. Kuhn has on his desk.

Callahan:

We are planning with the newspapers to ask

them to use virtually the same thing as the
radio stations, except in a different way.

A box or a short story, three, four, or five
times a week, which will be more or less
factual, tell why you should buy the bonds,

how much they cost, where to buy them, and
do it now.

I think that we can get the newspapers to
do that. There are fourteen hundred twentynine daily newspapers.
H.M.Jr:

That will be wonderful.

Callahan:

Then in trade journals, I think there are

about eleven hundred and twenty. We can concentrate on them with a pay deduction plan

to see if we can get them to boost it in
an editorial way and carry boxes in the

journals advising manufacturers that they
can write to the Treasury Department or wire
and we will give them complete information.
H.M.Jr:

I would like to try something. It may not
be any good, but if you could a little bit

just try a - personalizing this thing. If

Mr. Smith in the little town does something

particularly unusual, write it up giving him
the credit, whether he is the particular

317

- 14 postmaster of the town or the cashier of

some bank or something or other, you see.

If you can do a little human interest story

on somebody who has had the intelligence to

think out something, and then put it on the

air or in the story.
I mean, try it and see if it catches on.

It may not be worth anything, but I mean
a human interest story about the cashier
of a bank or some little postmaster or some-

thing like that, and tell the story about
this person in the community and try to put
it on and see if it catches on even in the
big papers. It might or it might not.

Powel:

I think this is the first time, if you will
write this letter, authorize the letter, that
the small town newspapers have been in touch
as nearly with a Government Department and

they will furnish a great deal of that material
in that connection.

H.M.Jr:

Well, I would just like to try it and see

if it - I mean, after all, this girl who

changed her name in Hollywood, if she could

get her picture - I saw that it was in twenty-

eight hundred different newspapers. You know,
she went into court. There was some Hollywood

girl.
Callahan:

Yes, I remember.

H.M.Jr:

They got her picture in over two thousand
newspapers. I guess it was Time magazine

had it.

Callahan:

Life.

H.M.Jr:

Well, it is things like that which strike
my imagination.

318
- 15 Callahan:

Well, I think we will be able to do that very
effectively through the state organizations.

What we have been talking about in both radio
and press is operating from Washington, but
when we go into the state organizations, we

will do the same thing in a purely local way.

We will ask for a certain amount of cooperation.

As the next thing, we will get a local banker,

a local businessman, a local doctor or somebody and he will ask the newspaper and the

radio station and it will be localized.

H.M.Jr:

You take the radio's word for it when they

Callahan:

No, sir. We have a system of checking. We
send out to the radio stations announcements.

do it, is that it?

At the bottom of announcements we have a

stub. That stub is addressed to the Treasury

Department and says announce one (a) or what-

ever it was was used and the station is given
at such and such a time. Those stubs are
mailed back. We have had thirty thousand
stubs mailed back to us so far.

H.M.Jr:

Is that a new wrinkle?

Callahan:

That is the newest wrinkle, and it is working

Powel:

They even airmail them.

Callahan:

Airmail them, and we are getting from the

very, very effectively.

southern states, particularly, affidavits

of performance proving that they did it.
In addition, we sent out some five minute

recordings of interviews between a businessman
and a Treasury official, which we made here
in Washington, and they are being used twice

a week for the last three weeks in May. We

319
- 16 received seventeen hundred of those stubs

back.

We wrote a letter to the radio stations and
asked them to get their postmaster and asked
them to get their mayor at the opening. We
had two hundred stations take care of that
for us.
H.M.Jr:

I will tell you what I would like to do.
Harold, if you could get it to me tonight.
I would like in not more than one page a
summary of what the radio stations are doing

for us written to the President.

Callahan:

That would be very grand for us.

H.M.Jr:

I would say that this is the most unusual

thing, and I would like to get it to him and
I think he would be interested, he is always

interested, if you send this thing with the

stub attached and say, "This is the way that

we know."

Send him a sample.
Callahan:

Incidentally, Mr. Secretary --

H.M.Jr:

You see, send him a sample of the thing and
say, "This is the way we are checking and

this is the way we know about it," you see.

Graves:

Yes.

Callahan:

In writing to the radio stations --

H.M.Jr:

Make it, Harold, from you to me.

Graves:

Yes, sir. A note for you to sign transmitting
it, you mean?

320
- 17 H.M.Jr:

What is that?

Graves:

A note from me to you and a note for you
to sign?

H.M.Jr:
Graves:

Just write the letter for me to sign, but
be sure I get it tonight.
Yes, I will see.

Callahan:

That we are keeping this record which is

available to all the stations. They know
that we are keeping them.

H.M.Jr:

Fine. I think that is wonderful. And you
think maybe you can do something with the
small newspapers?

Callahan:

I am quite sure we can.

H.M.Jr:

That will be wonderful.

Powel:

Now, you don't want a continued speech,

I am sure, about other details of this?

We have a great mail order machine. We

are making tests of different kinds of
letters and enclosures.

You said turning on the pressure. We are

going to turn on the pressure in a scientific
way for finding whose name is on there, what
letterhead, what imprint on the envelope,
what enclosure, what kind of an order blank
and having found that, with your permission,

we are going to circularize as intensively as
Time magazine.

H.M.Jr:

Are you using this fellow that --

Graves:

We are, John Blair.

321

- 18 H.M.Jr:

Is he helping?

Powel:

He is directing it under our authority,

making trips here, and has installed two

men, Mesars, Butler and Vance, and he comes

for consultation once a week.

H.M.Jr:

Blair?

Powel:

Yes.

H.M.Jr:

Bring him in the next time. Isn't he a

Powel:

A lovely fellow.

H.M.Jr:

And able.

Powel:

I would like to have a half a paragraph on

nice fellow?

the Boy Scouts.
H.M.Jr:

What, to the President?

Powel:

To you.

H.M.Jr:

Oh.

Powel:

Now, they have lugged out a million posters
and are anxious to lug out a quarter of a
million more. No assignment - I have got
some two-sheet posters now, you know, as

big as the door. No assignment is too tough
for them. They would like to put those up

in railroad stations.

The Pullman Company last week put up the small

poster in the end of every Pullman car in the

country, in that slot.

Johnston:

Incidentally, Harford and I just had word

from the Western Railroad Association the

322
- 19 endorsement plan to sell stamps at the

railroad stations.

H.M.Jr:

Wonderful. Well, put it in. Look, give
this to me. We will work this thing. I
want the President to know. He likes to
know.

You can say to the President, "Thanks to
your letter to the Boy Scouts, we have got

this kind of cooperation." It can run two

pages, Harold.
Johnston:

Incidentally, Mr. Secretary, I thanked the

Boy Scouts. I addressed their annual meeting
Saturday. On behalf of the Treasury and the
Government I thanked them.

H.M.Jr:

I want to give you men a chance to pep me
up and for me to give you some of my halfbaked ideas and then what is good, I want

to pass it on to the President.
Graves:

I think Mr. Houghteling ought to tell us
about his work, Mr. Secretary.

Houghteling: We have been contacting all sorts of national
organizations with the idea of getting them
ready for their state organizations as the
state organizations mature.
We have had very interesting results. My
own field has been primarily labor, and I
am getting from the A.F. of L. Unions the

list of their locals with the members of

each so we can send out circulars to them,
and the heads of the international unions
are addressing the heads of the locals asking

for their cooperation.

I am working on a systematic savings plan,
both as to the pay deduction plan, through

323

- 20 an additional payment at the time of payment
of union dues and through the buying of
defense savings stamps on the part of the
locals from their own funds to have them
available for their own members.
Unquestionably the payroll deduction plan

is the more effective of the three if the
unions are agreeable to it, and if the
employer is financially sound, but I am
working on the other plans too, and I have
had the approval of the A.F. of L. and the

railroad brotherhoods and I am working I am getting up a pamphlet on that subject.
The American Legion has adopted a very strong

resolution that every American ought to buy
a Defense Savings Bond. We are working it
out through the state commanders of the Legion the Masonic orders have been written to and
are coming in very whole-heartedly, with
fraternal orders, and trade associations are
cooperating.

The Association of American Railroads has

offered to put stamps on sale at all railroad
stations and to put up placards and to put
into the - the member roads are willing to
put into the payroll envelopes a pamphlet

about Defense Savings Bonds and also to put

into effect, pay deduction plans if the

brotherhoods ask them to.

We have got - we are working on Negro
organizations through two men I have taken

on in my staff. The new head of the Association
of Women's Clubs is putting in a special
section on Defense Savings Bonds. They are

having their convention this week, I believe,
and the new head takes over, and she is very
keen on this program.

324
- 21 -

I am planning to get six million special

circulars to the American farmer out through
the A.A.A. county agents and we are also
going - we are going to the Farm Credit
local agents and the cooperatives. I have

got a list of all the cooperatives in the

United States that I am going to circularize
as soon as I get my --

H.M.Jr:

Both buying and consumer?

Houghteling: Both buying and consumer, yes. That I got
from the Department of Agriculture.

Our circular to the farmers has just been
completed and isn't off the press yet. As
soon as that is in my hands, I am going
after all those farm organizations, but we
are trying to reach through voluntary
associations just as many of the citizens
as we can, placing literature in their hands
and promoting systematic savings plans.

H.M.Jr:

Well, that sounds good.
George, the reason I wanted you here this
morning, when am I going to begin to get

the kind of statistics that I am accustomed
to? (Laughter)

Haas:

I hope Wednesday morning, Mr. Secretary,

H.M.Jr:

Because I am a little worried. I haven't

for the first seventeen days. From there
on, you will get them weekly.

got the feel of the thing until I see it

in black and white. I mean, as to units.
Graves tells me they sell so many million
a day. I would like the number of people
and which bonds. You know.

325

- 22 Haas:

Yes, we have been getting that daily thing
up for Mr. Graves.

Graves:

Here is the report through the sixteenth,

H.M.Jr:

Oh, won't I have one through the sixteenth?

Graves:

Yes, you will, about noon I would say.

H.M.Jr:

It is amazing how steady it is, isn't it?

Graves:

Yes. That is a very comforting factor about

which was Friday.

this, that there is no sign of any falling
off in volume.

Haas:

The weekly figure, Mr. Secretary, will show
you how it is coming by areas, by states.
Any time you are interested, you can take
a look.

H.M.Jr:

I am ready and waiting. When am I going to

Haas:

Wednesday.

H.M.Jr:

All right. Well, I will have a later one
than this, won't I?

Graves:

About noon. It will be through Saturday.

H.M.Jr:

I think it would be all right to give it

Kuhn:

Helen Dallas is working for Harold Graves

get it?

out. I was impressed - I don't know who
the young lady is - who is writing that
weekly letter, there is nothing that succeeds
like success. Who is the young lady?

and she is doing this as a part-time job.

You originally wanted somebody full time,
but I thought from the beginning if she was

willing --

326
- 23 H.M.Jr:

What does she do the rest of the time?

Graves:

She is doing pamphlet work. As a matter
of fact, she has only been with us for
two weeks.

H.M.Jr:

Bring her in some time. I would like to

Graves:

I would like to do that.

Kuhn:

Was that the kind of summary you wanted,
Mr. Secretary?

H.M.Jr:

Yes. And I don't know whether it is done,

see what she looks like.

but I think all three of those ought to

be pinned together and go to the President
at the same time.
Kuhn:

No, only the Allen Barth one goes to the

H.M.Jr:

That and the tax and this one. Make them
from them to you, then you send it over to

President.

me, because you have been too modest about

this thing. You edit them, don't you?

Kuhn:

Yes.

H.M.Jr:

Well, make them from Barth to you, the tax

fellows to you, and this girl to you. They
are all doing it under this direction,
aren't they? I want the President to know

you exist and then I will send it with an

accompanying letter to the President, but

let him get all three.

Kuhn:

Right.

H.M.Jr:

Let's do it again, Harold. It is O.K. And
you get me something to send the President

so that he knows that we are existing.

327
MAY 19 1941

MEMORANDUM FOR THE PRESIDENT:

I believe that you will be interested in the
attached monorands about our Defense Bond program.

One sumarises the fine cooperation which - have

been having from the radio industry. The other
tells of the work done by the Boy Secute.

E. m
HNG/mff

By Messoneer 4 40

328

May 19, 1941
KADIO COOPERATICN IN DEFENSE SAFINGS PROGRAM

On March 20, 1941 Secretary Morgenthan wrote to 857 local
radio stations and to the Columbia Broadwasting Company, the National
Broadcasting Company, and the Matual Broadwasting Company asking for

cooperation in promoting the sale of Defense Stamps and Bonds. To

this letter 620 stations and the three companies replied offering
fall cooperation.
Since them, 792 local stations (w to May 17th) have reported

their use of 34,362 separate 150-word - these mote having been supplied by the Treasury Department. Reports of

- used are easing direct from the stations. Copies of
typical - and form of report are attached herete.
In addition, the three breadmating companies have built and
brondenet, w to May 17th, 39 separate 15-alame and half-hour programs
devoted exclusively to stamps and bonds. Also, 18 of the outstanding
news commissions have broadcast two or more messages in their now
programs.

Letters have been sent to all major commercial sponsors and

each and every one of them, without exception, has offered cooperation.

it least twice a day, network commercial programs are using one to fivesinute selling statements about bonds and stamps. In addition, every

329

+

-I

United these same States 1 station which / is / 1

is as - as I Inter . ww. in 1 is using

32

of

these obstime of - w - - I

board and steep and / / Million,

- to

following the 1 in - / - - the I the

Special of montal - book proposed w me and

- so - that this /

a is Pass end I - - - - 400 is in - m

notion, the 1 / and 1 1 - / of retto

/ of the - was 1 me - - -

taining - a - . - to five . - definite daily

/ - - w was Mae / I / -

/

indifinitely. / - a - to weive time workly I basis and will 1 /

Dota in is / time 1 and in - of

Malima, this the - / calling - /
in

the

retto 423 the and Mas and sales invoice bee I - - / w

330
May 19, 1941

Bax Secure Serve in Defense Revines Prescriate

On April 26, 1942, the President sent a letter
to Mr. Walter W. Hand, President, Boy Secute of

America. The letter asked all the 48,000 meat white
to said the Secretary of the treasury as special

massengers is the distribution of official Government posters amounting the 8. s. Savings Sende and

Stage for Defense, and to cooperate in such other
ways as may be deemed esitable for bays."

Inspired by this letter, the Secure have being
up 1,000,000 posters in store windows, also office
and fasteries all over America, and are today saking
for 250,000 more posters, including 10,000 very large

enes for rei stations.
So endous are the Seoute to serve continuously
in the National Defense program that they are dieeassing with us a tentative plan to have 1,500,000
boys "de 25 cents worth of montal work a week" and
place the proceeds in Defence Postal Savings Stemp

albums, up to the point where each bay will have
earned a 825 Defense Bond.

331

Treasury Department, Defense Savings Staff, Washington, D.C.
On
(Date)

was used over Station WGAN

of

CALL LETTERS

Signature

, 1941, Announcement E

Portland, Maine
CITY AND STATE

at approximately. 11:30 a.m.

/s/ C. E. Gatchell, Manager

TIME

332,

Treasury Department, Defense Savings Staff, Washington, D.C.
COPY)

On
(Date)

was used over Station

KTBS

of

CALL LETTERS

Signature

, 1941, Announcement D

Shreveport, La,
CITY AND STATE

/8/ W. Sneed

at approximately. 9:45 a.m,
TIME

333

Treasury Department, Defense Savings Staff, Washington, D.C.
On
(Date)

was used over Station WMAL

of

CALL LETTERS

Signature

,

COPY)

1941, Announcement C

Washington, D.C.
CITY AND STATE

at approximately 10:30 p.m.

/8/ Carleton D. Smith

TIME

334

Treasury Department, Defense Savings Staff, Washington, D. C.
On
(COPY)

(Date)

, 1941, Announcement B

was used over Station KVOF of Santa Anna, Calif.
CALL LETTERS

-

Signature

CITY AND STATE

/8/ Jim Lyons

at approximately. 5:15 p.m.
TIME

335

Treasury Department, Defense Savings Staff, Washington, D.C.
On
(Date)

was used over Station WKAJ

of

CALL LETTERS

Signature

, 1941, Announcement A
Miami Beach, Fla.
CITY AND STATE

at approximately 6:45 p.m.

/a/ Mabel Lewis, Traffic Mgr.

TIME

336

TREASURY DEPARTMENT . DEFENSE SAVINGS STAFF

Radio Announcement
Thursday, May 15, 1941

No. 18A

You are invited to become a bondholder

a bondholder in

the U.S.A. Uncle Sam invites you to invest your cash with
him. He makes it worth your while, too. How? Well, a Defense Savings Bond won't "go down" in value. The United
States Treasury will buy it back, on demand

and repay

every cent you paid in. As time goes on, you'll get even more

for Uncle Sam credits you with interest on these bonds. Be a
bondholder. Find out how money grows. Start with eighteen

dollars and seventy-five cents which grows to twenty-five
dollars in ten years. Collect four dollars for every three you put
in these bonds, which are as safe as the United States itself

and help to defend America's safety. Uncle Sam limits these
bonds to five thousand dollars a year for any one buyer

and

offers other bonds for other purchasers. For those who want to
start with ten cents or a quarter, there are Postal Savings Stamps.

Ask your postmaster or bank or address a post card to "U.S.A.,"
, for details.

care of
(Call letters)

(City)

Treasury Department, Defense Savings Staff. Washington, D.C.
On Thursday, May 15, 1941, Announcement 18A

was used over Station

of
CALL LETTERS

Signature

at approximately
CITY STATE

TIME

037

EASURY DEPARTMENT . DEFENSE SAVINGS STAFF

Radio Announcement
Thursday, May 15, 1941

No. 18B

Busy factories belching smokestacks they mean bigger
payrolls for more people. But what do you do with the money!
The only wages that really count are those you save. And Uncle

Sam helps you save. The United States Treasury offers triplyguarded Defense Savings Bonds as the place to put your money.
Guarded

backed by the Nation itself. Your prin-

safe

cipal is safe. Your interest is safe. Your investment is safe. No
chance for these bonds to sell for less than you paid for them.

And, year after year, there's a steady and increasing rate of
return. Cash them in at any time, if need arises, but always for

full value at prices printed on the face of the bond. Defense
Savings Bonds are limited in the amount for any one person. But

other types of bonds are offered other purchasers. And even
school children can take part with Postal Savings Stamps
saving a dime or quarter at a time. If you want more facts, ask

any postmaster or banker or drop a post card to "U.S.A."
care of

,

(Call letters)

(City)

Treasury Department, Defense Savings Staff, Washington, D.C.
On Thursday, May 15, 1941, Announcement 18B

as used over Station

at approximately

of
CALL LETTERS

Signature

CITY AND STATE

TIME

337

EASURY DEPARTMENT . DEFENSE SAVINGS STAFF

Radio Announcement
Thursday, May 15, 1941

No. 18B

belching smokestacks

Busy factories

they mean bigger

payrolls for more people. But what do you do with the money!
The only wages that really count are those you save. And Uncle

Sam helps you save. The United States Treasury offers triplyguarded Defense Savings Bonds as the place to put your money.
Guarded

backed by the Nation itself. Your prin-

safe

cipal is safe. Your interest is safe. Your investment is safe. No
chance for these bonds to sell for less than you paid for them.

And, year after year, there's a steady and increasing rate of
return. Cash them in at any time, if need arises, but always for

full value at prices printed on the face of the bond. Defense
Savings Bonds are limited in the amount for any one person. But

other types of bonds are offered other purchasers. And even
school children can take part with Postal Savings Stamps
saving a dime or quarter at a time. If you want more facts, ask
any postmaster or banker
care of

or drop a post card to "U.S.A."

,

(Call letters)

Treasury Department, Defense Savings Staff, Washington, D.C
On Thursday, May 15, 1941, Announcement 18B

as used over Station

at approximately

of
CALL LETTERS

Signature

CITY AND STATE

TIME

338

REASURY DEPARTMENT . DEFENSE SAVINGS STAFF

Radio Announcement
No. 18C

Thursday, May 15, 1941

Here is a great opportunity for all Americans. The Government
is selling its new Defense Savings Bonds

at post offices and

banks. Just consider what these bonds offer you. They can
never "go down" in price. You never get back less than you
pay

but you do get more

much more than you

put into them. Four dollars come back to you in ten years for
every three dollars you put into these Bonds now. Your money
back if you should need it, even after a couple of months. The
lowest priced bond is eighteen dollars and seventy-five cents, worth

twenty-five dollars in 1951. But Postal Savings Stamps help
you start with a dime

or a quarter at a time. And, since

the Defense Savings Bonds themselves are limited, the Treasury

offers other bonds that invite large investments. Today, put
your money in these Defense Bonds, guaranteed and backed by

the full faith and credit of the United States Government.

Treasury Department, Defense Savings Staff, Washington, D. C

On Thursday, May 15, 1941, Announcement 18C

was used over Station

at approximately

of

CALL LETTERS

Signature

CITY AND STATE

TIME

339

May 19, 1941

Dear Mr. Paderewski:

This is just to thank you, for myself and
for the entire Treasury Department, for your great
service in speaking over the radio in aid of our
Defense Savings Bond program.

Your appeal was so fine in its spirit and

in its wording that the Treasury is having it -

printed as a pamphlet for distribution to millions
of Americans.

I an sure that it will be effective, not

only in promoting the sale of Defense Bonds but

also in giving the foreign-born in this country a

heightened sense of what it means to be free mm

living in a land of freedom.
Sincerely yours,
(Signed) H. Morgenthan, Jr.

Mr. Ignace Jan Paderewski,
Buckingham Hotel,
New York, N. Y.

FK/hkb

5/19/41
File to Mr. Thompson

UNITED STATES SAVINGS BONDS AND SAVINGS STAMPS

CONFIDENTIAL

Daily Sales Since May 1, 1941

On Basis of Issue Price

(In thousands of dollars)
Post Office

All Bond Sales

Bank Bond Sales

Bond Sales

Savings

Date

Stamps

Series E

Series F

Series G

682

$ 4,678

$ 26,016

$ 1,135

1,283

3,648

24,160

106

1,401

9.900
9,030
11,775
11,151
9,586
8,229

113

92

Total

Series E

Series F

Series G

Series E

Total

$ 35,781

$ 5,087

$ 4,678

$ 4,405

30,401

2,593

3,648

$ 26,016
24,160

1,310

$ 31,377
29,091

14,969
14,967
17,802
16,925
15,189
13,800

2,982
3,845
3,872
4,565
4,011
4,156

2,087
2,092
2,155
1,210
1,591
1,415

9,900
9,030
11,775
11,151
9,586
8,229

1,581
1,607
1,351
1,235
1,156
1,187

13,387
13,360
16,451
15,690
14,033
12,613

2,238
2,521
3,329
2,855
2,969

2,087
2,092
2,155
1,210
1,591
1,415

17,051
19,887
18,019
16,984
17,470
13,612

4,542
4,374
4,421
4,255
4,062
2,706

1,578
2,219
1,621
1,952
1,528
1,104

10,930
13,294
11,977
10,777
11,880
9,802

1,485
1,220
1,106
1,116
1,054
867

15,567
18,667
16,913
15,867
16,415
12,745

3,058
3,154
3,315
3,139
3,007
1,839

1,578
2,219
1,621
1,952
1,528
1,104

10,930
13,294
11,977
10,777
11,880
9,802

$262,857

$ 55,471

$ 28,879

$178,507

$ 20,681

$242,175

$ 34,790

$ 28,879

$178,507

May 1941

1&2
3

no

6

7

8

9

10

12

13

14
15
16

17

Total

reasury Department, Division of Research and Statistics.

$

91
99
82

81
71

92
81
91

102
68

$ 2,305

May 19. 1941.
by

ource: Division of Savings Bonds. The post office figures are estimated by the post office on the basis of actual sales
100 larger post offices. The bank figures are taken from Federal Reserve Bank reports and include their own sales.
Note: Figures have been rounded to nearest thousand and will not necessarily add to totals.
wo
Revised.

Prepared by: Mr. Turner
Mr. Lindow

341

Mr. Tickton
Mr. Foy

Mr. Sandelin
Mr. Haas

EPARTMENT

INTER OFFICE COMMUNICATION

DATE April 19, 1941.

Secretary Morgenthau

TO

Mr. Haad

FROM

Subject: Financing

We suggest for the forthcoming refunding of the
August 3-1/4 percent bond a two-way offering, consisting of an 8-10 year, 2 percent bond and a 14-19 year,
2-1/2 percent bond. We suggest also that the 2-1/2
percent, 14-19 year bond be open for such new cash
as is to be raised, but that the intermediate bond
be offered only in exchange for the maturing bond.
The estimated yield bases and probable prices of the
two issues suggested are shown in the table below:
Estimated

Probable

basis*

price

yield

(Percent)

2-1/2 percent bond
due June 15, 1955-60
(14 - 19 years)

2.38

101-13/32

percent bond
due June 15, 1949-51

1.84

101- 6/32

2

(8 - 10 years)

* Based on closing bid prices, May 19, 1941.

The principal considerations underlying the foregoing suggestions are the following:

342
Secretary Morgenthau - 2

(1) The market has been moving upward since the
last financing and appears to be in a receptive mood
for a long bond.

The prices of long and intermediate Treasury bonds are currently about 3/4 of a point
above the levels at the time of the last Treasury financing. The taxable 2-1/2's of 1952-54
which were offered at that time have done even
better than the average. This issue 18 currently
quoted at about 103-24/32, which is an increase
in price of about 3 points over the first quotations. This strengthening of the market makes
it apparent that a 2-1/2 percent bond could be
offered today with a maturity somewhat longer
than the 1952-54's. Such an offering would
probably tend to further improve the tone of the
market and to establish the fact that the defense
program can be financed without steadily increasing the interest rates on Government securities.
(2) The maturing bonds, however, are owned to a
significant extent by commercial banks who are not interested in a long bond for permanent holding.
The recent Treasury survey of the ownership
of Government securities by large banks and insurance companies disclosed that on March 31
about 46 percent of the August bonds were held
by commercial banks and about 17 percent and
9 percent were held by insurance companies and

mutual savings banks, respectively. If a new
issue of long bonds is offered, it is unlikely
that commercial banks will be willing to take
for permanent holding more than a fraction of
the amount which they are now holding of the
maturing issue. This would not be a serious
problem if no new cash were to be sought at this
financing because the demands of savings banks
and insurance companies would doubtless take up

a large portion of the long bonds liquidated by
commercial banks. (In this connection it might
be noted that life insurance companies' cash balances are now at a record high level - in excess

of a billion dollars.)

343
Secretary Morgenthau - 3

Ina emuch as new cash is to be obtained at

this time, however, it is likely that the demands
of savings banks and insurance companies will be
satisfied to a considerable extent by subscriptions to the cash portion of the financing.
The secondary distribution caused by bank liquidation of a large volume of long-term bonds may,
therefore, cause some unsettlement at the long
end of the market.

Figures compiled from the survey referred to
cent of the bank holdings of the maturing 3-1/4's
and about 34 percent of the bank holdings of all
issues of Governments, hold less than 10 percent

above show that 57 banks, which own about 83 per-

of the bank portfolios of issues with 12 years or
more to their earliest call date. On the basis of
these figures it is estimated that secondary distribution may involve as much as $300 millions
out of the $834 millions to be refunded. A two-

way exchange offering designed to avoid such
secondary distribution would appear to be
desirable.

(3) The suggested offering of two bonds would
take care of the demands of all investors.
A two-way bond offering would make it

possible to take care of the needs of all investors so long as the pricing is done without
substantial bias in favor of one of the issues.
A long bond would take care of the interests of
the savings banks, insurance companies, and perhaps other "real savers", while a short bond

would take care of the interests of commercial

banks. It is essential, of course, that the

pricing provide substantially the same probable
premium for both issues, lest the existence of
a higher premium should result in creating an
enlarged demand temporarily for one of the two
issues and a subsequent reshuffling to take care
of the more permanent requirements. For this
reason it would not be advisable to reopen
the 3/4 percent taxable note, inasmuch as
the present premium of less than one point

344
Secretary Morgenthau - 4

compares unfavorably with the probable premium
on the long bond suggested above.

It is also important to remember that this

note was included in the two preceding refundings as "an anchor to windward which it was
thought desirable to have because of the uncertainties involved in pricing taxable Treasury
bonds. Without question it served its purpose.
Since the two new taxable bonds have been quoted
on the market, however, a considerable portion of
the uncertainty of pricing has been dispelled,
and it is possible now to proceed with more confidence than it was in February or March.

(4) The suggested issues fit satisfactority into

our maturity schedule.

Although there are several issues with call
periods overlapping the call periods of the proposed issues, there 18 sufficient flexibility in
the length of the respective call periods to make
the suggested maturities fully satisfactory.
(5) The Treasury can obtain the advantage of a

five-year call option at no additional cost.

The market does not appear to exact an

appreciably greater rate for a five-year optional

call period than for a two-year call period. In

consequence, it appears that the Treasury can secure
the advantage of greater leeway in selecting the
ultimate redemption date of the suggested 2-1/2
percent bond without paying more than it would for

an issue with a two-year call period. A 2-1/2
percent bond could be issued successfully for
either 14-19 years, or 17-19 years.

345
Secretary Morgenthau - 5

(6) The probable premiums on the suggested issues
are large enough to cover the "coupon-carry" on the
August bonds.

The "coupon-carry" on the August bonds from

June 1 to August 1 is equivalent to about 17/32.
The real margin of safety on the proposed issues
is represented, therefore, only by the excess in
the probable premium over 17/32. The issues
suggested above are priced to provide a sufficiently large premium to cover the "couponcarry" on the maturing issue without providing
too large a premium for a security issued for
cash.

(7) The size of the cash offering should not be

much in excess of $500 millions, or $600 millions.

The amount of the August bonds to be refunded

is $834 millions. This, in itself, is a fairly

large offering. The market could, however, probably absorb $500 millions, or $600 millions
additional without serious difficulty. The cash
offering of $1 billion, on the other hand, might
well give the market a shock which would impede
future financing operations. An offering of
this size might also be construed to mean that

the Defense savings bond drive was disappointing.

YIELDS OF TREASURY BONDS AND NOTES MAY 15.

1941

Based on Closing Prices

1946

1944

1950

1948

1954

1952

1956

1958

1960

1962

1964

1966

1968

1970

1942

PER

CENT

PER
00

CENT

8

220
:

220

.

200

O

200

Notes

1.80
O

180

On
O

1.60
:

160

1.40

2

140

3

1.20

2

oo,

228

120

%

1.00

as

2500

100

80

:

Wholly Tox-exempt Notes
Taxable Notes

80

*

Partially Tax-exempt Bonds

8

60

Taxable Bonds

:
:
2

60

2

Arrows to zero line indicate
negative yield

2

40

40

o

Bonds

20

***

20

0

DOLLARS

0

Millions

DOLLARS

Millions

Amount Outstanding

3,500

3500

3,000

Notes

3000

Bonds
2500

2500

2000

2000

1.500

5.00

1000

500

000

500

0

942

1944

1946

1948

1950

1952

1954

1956

1958

1960

1962

1964

and issues
plotted or smooth
of the earliest callcurves
date if the fittedare
bond . by selling eye above par
computed
to The

Note For callable bonds the final you'd's moturity are date , the bond . selling in millions below par
Dollar and os amounts of shown in descriptions offer has of been ISSUED made are and not expired are excluded
issues The year for which of taxable on exchange securities are not reflected by the curves

1966

1968

1970

347

1. Who holds the August bonds?

Details

Short answer

Question

in

Commercial banks

46%

Mutual savings banks
Insurance companies
Federal Reserve Banks
Subtotal

9%

17%
7%

79%

All other
Total

2. Commercial banks are the

largest holder of the
August bonds. In general,

how long a bond do commercial banks want in

21%

100%

Bank "breaking point"
appears to be issues

Table 1

callable in 1954

exchange?

3. Are bank holdings of the

August bonds concentrated
in a few banks?

4. How long a bond do the 57
banks want?

Yes, 57 banks own 83% of all

bank holdings of this issue.
They want a short issue.
They own (of bank holdings)
a. 83% of August bonds

b. 34% of all issues taken

Table 2

together

C. 10% or less of each issue
callable after 1953

5. If ve offer only a long
bond in exchange, how much

About $300 millions.

Table 3

secondary distribution is
likely to occur?

See Table

6. Who holds our other taxable

4

issues?

7. Do banks object to holding
issues with long call
periods?

No. In many cases they hold the
same percent of long call as
short call issues in same area.

Office of the Secretary of the Treasury,
Division of Research and Statistics.

Table 5

May 19, 1941.

348

Table 1
SELECTED TREASURY ISSUES

Comparison of Bank Holdings with Total Amount Outstanding
March 31, 1941

(Dollars are millions)
:

Amount

:

outstanding

:

1. All public marketable
issues 1

commercial banks

Percent held
by 5,638
commercial banks

$42,943

$17,596

41

834

381

46

2. The issue to be refunded
(3-1/4% of Aug. 1941)

Amount held
by 5,638

3. Issues in the long bond
area

2-1/4% - 1951-53

1,118

608

54

2-1/2% - 1952-54

1,002

399

40

- 1953-55

725

530

73

2-1/4% - 1954-46

681

322

47

2-7/8% - 1955-60

2,611

298

2-3/4% - 1956-59

982

2-3/4% - 1958-63

919

195

2-3/4% - 1960-65

1,485

330

2%

228

Office of the Secretary of the Treasury,
Division of Research and Statistics.
1/ Excludes special issues, United States Savings and
Adjusted Service Bonds.

11

BREAKING

POIN T

23

21

22

May 19. 1941

Table 2

349

SELECTED TREASURY ISSUES

Comarison of Holdings by 57 Selected Commercial Banks

with Holdings by all of the 5,638 Commercial Banks Reporting
March 31, 1941

(Dollars are millions)
:

banks

:

:
:

banks

:

selected

:

by 57

Amount held
by 5,638
commercial

:

:
:

Issue

Amount held

Percent of

total held
by 57

:selected banks

:
:

1. All public marketable
$6,056

$17,596

34

316

381

83

2-1/4% - 1951-53

120

608

20

2-1/2% - 1952-54

138

399

34

- 1953-55

42

530

2-1/4% - 1954-56

27

322

2-7/8% - 1955-60

30

298

issues 1

2. The issue to be refunded
(3-1/4% of Aug. 1941)

3. Issues in the long bond
area

2%

2-3/4% - 1956-59

2-3/46 - 1958-63

2-3/46 - 1960-65

228

8

g

20

195

330

Office of the Secretary of the Treasury,
Division of Research and Statistics.
1 Excludes special issues, United States Savings and
Adjusted Service Bonds.

BREAK/N
8

8

10

4

4

6

May 19, 1941.

350

Table 3

Secondary Distribution Likely to Occur if We Offer a Single Long Bond
in Exchange for the 3-1/4'a of 1941
(New issue estimated to amount to $800 millions)

(In millions of dollars)

Insurance companies

Federal Reserve Banks

Other investors
Total

:been completed 1/

316

30

44

130

360

160

75

160

145

200

57

57

163

223

800

800

Office of the Secretary of the Treasury,
Division of Research and Statistics.

286

-

86

-

286

86

85

55

60

-

Mutual savings banks

Purchases

-

Total commercial banks

Sales

-

Other commercial banks

will occur

-

57 commercial banks

secondary

distribution has:

Changes that

-

holdings

after

:

based on
present

:

Class of investor

Final
holdings

:
:

Original
allotment

286

286

May 19, 1941.

1 Assumes commercial banks as a class, and mutual savings banks each

take 20 percent of the issue, and insurance companies take 25 percent
of the issue. Assumes 57 selected commercial banks take a larger
amount of the new issue for permanent holding than usual in this
maturity area.

351

Table 4

Ownership of the Taxable Issues of Treasury Bonds and Notes

(Dollars are millions)

3/4%

:March 143:

3/4%

Sept. 44

:

:

:

:

Amount outstanding

1948-50

:

: 1952-4

2% bond

:

bond

Notes
:

:
:

2%

:
:

Bonds

3/4%

Dec. 45

$1,002

$1, 115

$65

$635

$531

$ 399

$ 602

$14

$461

$381

42

39

32

39

Amount owned by:

233
126

153

76

78

168

157

$1,002

$1,115

39.8
23.2
12.6

54.0
13.7

1

5,638 commercial banks
487 mutual savings banks
775 insurance companies
Federal Reserve Banks, Gov-

125

2

ernment agencies and trust
funds

All other investors

6

39

6

94

66

$65

$635

$531

21.5

72.6

71.7

11.2

1.5
3.1

6.6

5.0

7.4
7.4

7.6

7.0

60.0

1.0

1.1

Subtotal

83.2

85.9

86.1

85.2

87.6

All other investors

16.8

14.1

13.9

14.8

12.4

100.0

100.0

100.0

100.0

100.0

Total

9

Percent owned by:

5,638 commercial banks
487 mutual savings banks
775 insurance companies
Federal Reserve Banks, Gov-

ernment agencies and trust
funds

Total

Office of the Secretary of the Treasury,
Division of Research and Statistics.

May 19, 194

352

Table 5
BANK HOLDINGS OF SELECTED TREASURY ISSUES

Comparison of Holdings of Issues with Long Call Periods
and Holdings of Issues with Short Call Periods

(Dollars are millions)
out-

:

: period : standing :

Amount held:
by 5,638
banks

Percent held
:
:

Issue

: Amount

:
:

: Length

: of call

by 5,638
banks

Short bond (to call)
- 1944-54
3-1/4% - 1944-46

49

10 years
2 years

$1,037
1,519

$351

34

573

38

4 years
2 years

1,786
1,186

711

40

488

41

5 years
3 years

919

195

21

982

228

23

Medium bond

2-1/2% 1949-53
2-1/2% 1950-52
Long bond

2-3/4% 1958-63
2-3/4% - 1956-59

Office of the Secretary of the Treasury,
Division of Research and Statistics.

May 19, 1941.

Note: This comarison is between issues with comparable amounts

outstanding. It is between callable securities only and
thus excludes fixed maturity issues.

353
May 19, 1941
11:42 a.m.
HMJr:

Hello.

Operator:

Secretary Knox.

HMJr:

Hello.

Frank
Knox:

Hello.

HMJr:

Hello, Frank.

K:

Hello, Henry. By the way, I just
got a notification of some kind

of at home at the White House on
the same night of your dinner
party.

HMJr:

At home?

Yeah, for the President and Mrs.
Roosevelt. Have you had yours

K:

yet?
HMJr:

Well, my wife hasn't called me.

K:

Is she in town?

HMJr:

Yeah.

K:

Well, I think you better tip her

HMJr:

It's something at the White House?

K:

Yeah, wait a minute. I have it

off, she

I it

I'll you.

right just here, got and read I happened it to that to

notice it's the same night
I was going to your house.

HMJr:
K:

What 18 it?

(To some one else) Let me have that

invitation that just came from the

White House, Johnnie's got it.
(To Secy) How are you?

354

-2-

HMJr:

I'm all right.

K:

Did you go away over the week
end.

HMJr:

No, I couldn't. I had to stay

here on account of that tax thing.
Uh huh.

K:

HMJr:

I saw the President Saturday and

cleared it with him. I just stayed
here until

I talked to King when I was down

K:

HMJr:

with him Friday and he is all
ready and waiting for you.
Well, that's wonderful. I mentioned
it to the President and he's delighted
that I'm going.

K:

The President 1s?

HMJr:

Yeah.

K:

Well, that's fine. Here's what the

invitation says, "The President and

Mrs. Roosevelt at home on Wednesday

evening, May 21 at 9 o' clock" then
there is the usual other dope.

HMJr:

Oh, isn't that for the newspaper
men?

K:

I don't think so, this is addressed

HMJr:

At home.

K:

HMJr:

to The Secretary of the Navy and Mrs. Knox.

I don't know what it's for. If it's
just for the newspaper men, why hell,
I'11 go to your party. I'il beg off.
Well,

355

-3-

But I don't think it is, Henry.

K:

HMJr:

Well, suppose I call up my Mrs.
and find out.

K:

Yeah, you better do that.

HMJr:

I'll do it immediately.

K:

It looks to me like a Cabinet

HMJr:

I don't know.

K:

All right, oh boy.

HMJr:

While I got you on the wire -

K:

Yeah.

HMJr:

This is a little bit out of my
line but we did buy, I think,

affair.

Hello?

Lockheed, D-C

K:

HMJr:

Buy what?

We bought some planes for the
English. The Treasury Procurement
did, you know these D-C Douglas
planes and some of these Lockheed
planes

K:

Yeah?

HMJr:

And they were supposed to have
been rushed up to New York, I

think my information is correct,

they are up there at New York
and they were going to be flown
down to South America and across
to Africa
K:

Yes.

HMJr:

To get them to the middle East.

K:

Yes.

356

-4-

HMJr:

Well, I understand that the whole

K:

Yeah.

HMJr:

thing is bogged down.

And that they are not going to
fly them over, now they are going
to ship them by boat.
Uh huh.

K:

HMJr:

Well, hell, everybody broke his
neck to get these things and get
them repaired and they send the
damn things by boat - why they
wont get there to be any good.

That's right.

K:

HMJr:

I wondered if you didn't mind my
suggesting if you would look into

it.

K:

Well, I have done this much, Henry.

I knew about this, as a matter of
fact, 34 of these big 4 engines bombers
been finished and 2 of them in operation,
only two

HMJr:

Frank

K:

And the last I heard from the British
why, they had six of them on the way
across the ocean.

HMJr:

Well, this is a different field.

K:

Different?

HMJr:

These are second-hand planes, we
bought.

K:

Second-hand?

HMJr:

Yeah, to transport troops in the

K:

Oh yes.

Well, these were some second used planes that they bought
.

HMJr:

middle East.

357

-5K:

I see.

HMJr:

About twenty or thirty of them.
And who was supposed to fly them

K:

Over?
HMJr:

Well, the first as I was told,

they were going to be flown by
the Army and Navy.

K:

HMJr:

No, I never heard of that.
Well, that's what 1 was told
and then the eighteen hundred
miles across the Atlantic from
Brazil over to Takoradi, whatever

K:

Yeah.

HMJr:

And then in.

K:

I see.

HMJr:

And they sent them all up to

K:

Have you talked to Arthur Purvis

HMJr:

No, it came to me another way.

New York, and now they are all
up there and not a damn thing
is happening to them.

about it at all?

I don't
to want
in Purvis
get with
I mean I severed my connections,
see what I mean?

K:

H.M.Jr:

Yeah. Well, I'11 get into that thing.
I mean, I'm talking to you as a
member of the committee of four.
don't want to start up again with
I

Arthur Purvis.

K:

I see. Well, I'11 get right into it,

Henry, and see what I can do.

358
-6H.M.Jr:
K:

H.M.Jr:

Would you?

Yeah.
say there are how many
of themYou
there?

They tell me there is 20 up in

New York all ready.

K:

I see.

H.M.Jr:

And I don't know. Everybody in

Washington - Procurement of the
Treasury was told to buy them and

they've had them repaired and I

think I've got the story straight
but I don't want to start in again

with the British Purchasing Mission.

K:

Uh-huh. Well, all right, Henry.

H.M.Jr:

Thank you.

K:

All right. Good-bye.

I'll get into it.

359

19 MAY 1941

THE FOLLOWING MESSAGE IS FROM SECTREAS MORGENTHAN:

BARRING UNFORSEEN INCIDENT WILL CERTAINLY 60 SATURDAY. LETTER
FOLLOWING.

FROM: SECNAV

TO : CINCLANT

360

May 19, 1941

My dear Admiral:

I have your very kind letter of May 16th.
I am looking forward with real pleasure to my
trip on the U. S. S. AUGUSTA.

Thank you for your kind offer to bring

Lieutenant Stephens with me.

I

shall

not

bring

him, however, as I am placing myself entirely in
your hands and therefore will not need an aide on

this trip.

You will be pleased to know that I mentioned
to the President my proposed trip and he is de-

lighted that I am making it.

I am having Coast Guard figure out the best
way to fly me to Newport and as soon as I hear I
will communicate with you.
Very sincerely yours,
(Signed) H. Morgenthes, Sr.

Rear Admiral Ernest J. King, U.S.N.,
U.S.S. AUGUSTA,

Care of Postmaster,
New York, N. Y.

361

May 19, 1941

My dear Admiral:

I have your very kind letter of May 16th.
I am looking forward with real pleasure to my
trip on the U. S. S. AUGUSTA.

Thank you for your kind offer to bring

Lieutenant Stephens with me. I shall not

bring

him, however, as I am placing myself entirely in
your hands and therefore will not need an aide on

this trip.

You will be pleased to know that I mentioned
to the President my proposed trip and he is de-

lighted that I am making it.

I am having Coast Guard figure out the best
way to fly me to Newport and as soon as I hear I
will communicate with you.
Very sincerely yours,
(Signed) E. Morgenthad, SP.

Rear Admiral Ernest J. King, U.S.N.,
U.S.S. AUGUSTA,

Care of Postmaster,
New York, N. Y.

362

May 19, 1941

My dear Admiral:

I have your very kind letter of May 16th.
I am looking forward with real pleasure to my
trip on the U. S. S. AUGUSTA.

Thank you for your kind offer to bring

Lieutenant Stephens with me. I shall not bring
him, however, as I as placing myself entirely in

your hands and therefore will not need an aide on

this trip.

You will be pleased to know that I mentioned
to the President my proposed trip and he is de-

lighted that I am making it.

I am having Coast Guard figure out the best
way to fly me to Newport and as soon as I hear I
will communicate with you.
Very sincerely yours,
(Signed) H. Morgenthau, Jr.

Rear Admiral Ernest J. King, U.S.N.,
U.S.S. AUGUSTA,

Care of Postmaster,
New York, N. Y.

363

U.S.S. AUGUSTA

May 16, 1941

My dear Mr. Secretary:

I am writing to confirm the arrangements for

your cruise with us the latter part of this month.

The departure date is Saturday, 24 May, and
the time - noon - if you can arrange to be here by

that time.

The length of stay in Bermuda waters will be
about 48 hours - from 0800 on Monday 26 May to 0800

on Wednesday 28 May.

The return date will be Friday 30 May and the
time, tentatively - noon.
Agreeable to your request, I will endeavor to
have a carrier available on either 26 or 27 May - for
you to go on board and witness flying operations.
It is our expectation that this ship - AUGUSTA -

will fire a long-range battle practice (eight-inch and
five-inch guns) on the morning of our return here 30 May.

I understand that you wish to bring your aide -

Lieutenant Stevens - with you and hope that you will

bring him.

364
If you will be good enough to let me know your

detailed plans for coming here, I will see to it that

you are met by car or boat or both.

Hoping that all will work out to your satis-

faction - and looking forward to having you on board,
I am

Very sincerely yours,

Ernest
Admiral, UY S.JKing
Navy
The Honorable Henry Morgenthau, junior,

Secretary of the Treasury,
Washington, D. C.

Personal

365

May 19, 1941
3:25 p.m.

HMJr:

On the seven big Coast Guard

cutters, we are waiting to

hear from your people and the

meantime nothing 18 happening.
Hello.

Frank
Knox:

Yeah.

HMJr:

Now, if you want to, we are

K:

I see.

HMJr:

ready, see?

I have been, but I just wanted
you to know that. I wish you

would check up on me.

I will. I'll do that right away.

the up on the

K:

and

meeting with Towers to

other By thing way, I checked I'm having tomorrow a

canvass whether we can't supply

HMJr:

the pilots to take those second-hand
planes right over.
Well, that's what was suggested to
me but I'm such a modest creature,
I didn't have the nerve to suggest

it to you.

K:

(Laughs) You don't need to be

modest to me. I'll slap you down
if you say anything you ought not
to. (Laughs)

HMJr:

I hope so. I've dropped out of
it you know and I hate to - but I

just boiltoover
I see
everybody
do itwhen
and for
some

or
here's
twentyreason
good transports
trying
other,
you
that are going to rot up there,

know.
K:

There's a hell of a lot of things to
that are not followed through
the end.

366

-2HMJr:

You are right.

K:

Absolutely,

HMJr:

And the suggestion was made to

K:

Yeah.

HMJr:

But as I say, being such a modest

K:

me - now, if the Navy would only
do it, it would be done well and
they would get there.

little violet, I lost my nerve.
(Laughs) I don't believe you.

All right, Henry, I'll see you
at dinner.

HMJr:

Thank you.

K:

All right.

367

May 19, 1941.
MEMORANDUM
TO:

Secretary Morgenthau

FROM: Mr. Gaston

At your suggestion I discussed by telephone this
morning with Admiral Waesche, who was at New London, the

draft of a letter to the President, for your signature,

suggesting that the Coast Guard Organization Act be amended

to repeal the obligatory provision that the Coast Guard
entire goes to the Navy in time of war, substituting a provision that in time of peace or war the President may assign
any part, or all, of the Coast Guard to work under Navy direction.

Waesche very strongly recommends against submitting

this proposal directly to the President at this time. He

made the following points:

(1) In time of actual hostilities all of the activities

of the Coast Guard are a necessary part of National defense
and can operate most effectively under direct Navy control.

(2) He believes that to inject this proposal into the
situation at this time, without consulting the Navy Depart-

ment in advance, would create friction and discord, which
would make our situation much more difficult.

(3) The proposed amendment would be injurious to Coast
Guard morale, since Coast Guard officers and men take pride

in the record of the Service in various wars and regard themselves as an essential part of the fighting services.

I think there is some merit in each of these three

points of objection, particularly No. 2. I don't attach a
great deal of weight to No. 1, since it is obvious that a war
situation always demands close cooperation by many agencies

of the Government with the military services but doesn't require that the military services take over these other agencies. I suggest that you give Waesche an opportunity to discuss the matter with you before we go further, since he seems

to feel so strongly about it.

368

May 19, 1941
3:27 p.m.

HMJr:

Operator:
HMJr:

Oscar

Hello.
Mr. Cox.

Hello.

Cox:

Mr. Secretary.

HMJr:

Oscar?
Yes.

C:

HMJr:

I want you to report to your wife
that I did not wait to hear from
you. I couldn't wait so long, see?

C:

Oh, I see.

HMJr:

I thought you were one of these

C:

HMJr:

hurry-up boys.

Well, I am, but I couldn't quite
get hold of Mr. Forrestal.
Well - forget it because I spoke

this
a tomorrow

has to Frank called Knox meeting morning for he

with Towers and he is proposing

that the Navy fly them over to Africa.

C:

HMJr:

Well, good gracious; then you are the
hurry-up boy today.
See?

C:

Yeah.

HMJr:

Well, put down another good mark

C:

for your wife.
No. I'll put down another good
mark for you.

369

-HMJr:

And - he says he's calling a
meeting with Towers tomorrow
and he is going to propose that
the Navy fly them across.

C:

Well, that's swell. The closest
that I got to Forrestal was his
Assistant and he sent the message

through, but I haven't heard from

him.
HMJr:

Well, it is done.

c:

Good.

HMJr:

And I didn't say anything about
who approached me or any of the

objections; I just said that there

were twenty planes up there and

for old times sake, I hoped they

got across.
C:

Well, that's swell.

HMJr:

And he said, have you talked to

Purvis about it? And I said no, but

if it's done you might - if it's

accomplished you might tell Purvis
how it was done.
C:

I certainly will.

HMJr:

See?

C:

Right.

HMJr:

otherwise I don't care if

knowsanything
I hadtodo
And, anybody
with it, in fact I'd rather they

didn't. I don't want to get started

again.
C:

All right.

HMJr:

But if it's accomplished, you might

tell Purvis.

370

-3C:

You bet, I will.

HMJr:

How it was done.

C:

Right.

HMJr:

Goodnight.

C:

Goodnight.

371
May 19, 1941
3:32 p.m.

HMJr:

Clifton

Did you buy those transport planes
for the English, those Lodestar
Lockheed's and the DC three's;
did you buy those?

Mack:

Yes sir.

HMJr:

Well, what you pay for them?

M:

Well, they averaged around $90,000.

HMJr:

A piece?

M:

Yes. They are - in most cases they
were new planes and they were very
good planes.

HMJr:
M:

How many did you buy altogether?

Well, let's see, we have an
authorization to buy twenty and
I think we bought fifteen.

HMJr:

I think you bought twenty.

M:

Let's see, fifteen; there may

HMJr:

have been some others that they
were negotiating.

I see. In the future when you

send me the weekly report, could
you send me a little more information
as to what you are buying and what

it is.

M:

I'd be happy to.

HMJr:

I wish you would.

M:

I didn't want to make it too

detailed because I know you are

terrifically busy.

372

-2HMJr:

I wish you would send a little

M:

I'll be glad to do that.

HMJr:

How you getting along, otherwise?

M:

Very good, some of these things

more.

are moving rather slowly, but
we are trying to keep them moving
as fast as we can.

HMJr:

Thanks, Mack. That's all.

M:

Yes.

HMJr:

Goodbye.

0

373
r. Thompson reported to the Secretary
t the 9:30 meeting on May 19th that
e had taken care of the expenses of
hese two gentlemen - Magill and Shoup.

374

May 19, 1941
Norman Thompson

Secretary Morgenthau

Did we pay the expenses for Roswell Magill and the

other Professor from Columbia, whose name I cannot remember, who came down to help me on Thursday? Please
let me know.

375

STATEMENT OF JOHN L. SULLIVAN, ASSISTANT SECRETARY
OF THE TREASURY, BEFORE THE COMMITTEE ON WAYS
AND MEANS OF THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES,

MONDAY, MAY 19, 1941

My purpose today is to discuss with you the
problem of corporate taxation in the present emergency.
What I shall have to say is supplementary to the statement made by Secretary Morgenthau when the current

hearings were opened and to the suggestionslaid before
you subsequently on behalf of the Treasury Department.
The Treasury is called upon to meet expenditures

greater than have ever been made in the nation's
peacetime history, and probably greater than at any

period in our history, in peace or war. At such a
time we cannot expect to rely on normal sources of
revenue or be content with revenue in normal amounts.
We must adopt extraordinary measures to deal with our

extraordinary situation.
Your Committee is now formulating changes in our
tax system, both to provide the revenues needed to
finance the defense expenditures that we are committed

to make, and also to assist in maintaining the
economic health of the nation. Our people know that
25-26

376

-2great sacrifices must be made and they are prepared
to make them. They rely upon you so to plan our

financial program that, however severe its burdens

may have to be,. they will rest fairly and justly
upon all individuals and all businesses.
The tax program which you will propose will
necessarily consist of many elements. Any one tax,

viewed by itself, may appear to be stringent. All
must be viewed, however, as parts of a whole. This
is an emergency. Taxes that would not be proposed
in normal times are a necessity now.

I have been asked particularly to discuss the

excess profits tax, first enacted in the fall of 1940.
Our experience with it is still limited, for many of
the returns of the largest corporations have not yet
been filed. Enough have been filed, however, to

convince Treasury officials in charge of tax administration that important changes in the law must be

made in the interests of fairness. We are collecting
large sums by means of this tax, but the profits of a
good many business firms are not being touched by the tax,

377

-although some of those profits are excess profits by
any reasonable standard. Here is certainly a place

to broaden the base. Surely the skill of this
Committee and its experts is adequate to the task

of bringing within the tax the known cases of corporate
excess profits.

I want first to outline the principles which I
believe should govern the taxation of excess profits;
second, to indicate respects in which the present law

fails to accord with those principles; and third, to
suggest possible remedies which the Congress may wish
to consider.

I Principles
Under present conditions some kinds of profits
may be appropriately subjected to heavier taxation
than other kinds. This may be necessary in order to

distribute the burden fairly and to avoid unfavorable
economic effects that might result if the revenue
were raised in other ways.

1. Defense profits

The first type of profits which, in a period of
this kind, should be subjected to special taxation
comprises the profits which may be reasonably

378

-4attributed to the defense program. Such profits are
being made out of the sacrifices of the people as a
whole and should be returned to the people in taxes,
insofar as may be possible without destroying necessary
incentivesto produce defense goods.

In many cases it is not possible to identify
with precision the additional profits due to the defense
program. The effects of defense spending are diffused
throughout the whole economic system. It is necessary,

accordingly, to assume that in general, increases in

profits during this period are due to defense. Inability
to measure defense profits precisely should not discourage us from subjecting them to special taxation
even at the risk of hitting some income not derived
from the defense program.

2. Profits in excess of a necessary normal
return on invested capital

The other kind of profit that can properly be subjected
to special taxation comprises profits in excess of a
necessary normal return on invested capital, even if

379

-5this return was being earned in the years prior to the
defense program. The existence of such profits, while
often due primarily to good management, is in numerous

cases due to monoply, imperfect competition, or
fortunate circumstances, and not to any outstanding

service to the public. When as a result of the imperfections of our economic machinery such excess profits
have been made, it is equitable and desirable that they be

subjected to special taxation. Furthermore, at a time
when heavy taxes must be imposed they should be levied where

they will assist best in maintaining a well-functioning economy. To take an additional share of the profits
in excess of a normal return on invested capital will
not cause any companies to go into bankruptcy or withdraw
from business.

I am aware that the anticipation of extraordinarily
large profits may in many cases have put security prices
well above a figure that would represent invested

capital. The imposition of these special taxes may
seem harsh to individuals who have purchased those

securities at such levels. We must remember that no

legislation is ever passed and no progressive step is
ever taken which does not disturb expectations of some

people. We submit that established expectations of

high profits are entitled to no more protection than

380

-6an individual's expectation of a continued large
salary which 1s now to be subjected to a much heavier
tax. This is an emergency, and changes must be expected.

I am also aware that the application of the
principle of taxing profits in excess of a necessary
normal return on capital involves difficulties of both

principle and technique. These difficulties should not
be underestimated, but I feel sure that we should not

allow them to stand in the way of our seeking to attain
the main objective.

II - Defects of the present law

In the light of the principles just stated, let
us now examine the excess profits tax law passed last

year, to see in what respects, if any, it fails to
correspond to them.

1. Failure to reach large parts of defense profits
The Excess Profits Tax Act of 1940 was a clear

expression of Congressional intent that profits growing
out of the defense effort should be subject to excess

profits tax.
The law, however, has not achieved that objective.

Many corporations that are the principal beneficiaries
of the defense effort and that hold large government

381

-7contracts are paying little or no excess profits tax.
In the absence of complete excess profits tax
returns an examination has been made of published

financial data for certain corporations. One company
whose profits in 1940 were more than 3,000 percent

larger than in 1939 is subject to no excess profits
tax whatever on 1940 earnings and this is a company

which has thus far received over $70 million of defense
contracts. A large industrial company which has received
over $250 million of defense contracts and had earnings

in 1940 of nearly 200 percent larger than in 1939 will
pay no excess profits tax. It appears that only 5 out
of 12 large integrated steel companies will be subject
to excess profits tax on the income of 1940, although
steel companies have in general received huge amounts
of defense orders.

These companies pay little or no excess profits
tax because they are allowed a minimum credit of
8 percent of invested capital.

2. Failure to tax profits in excess of a
necessary normal return

Another sericus shortcoming of the 1940 excess

profits tax law is that profits in excess of a necessary
normal return on invested capital are not subject to
the tax unless such profits also represent an increase

382

-8-

over the profits of the base period. Companies which
earned during the base period an average of 30 percent,
50 percent or even more on their present invested

capital will be free from the excess profits tax on
income in any year equal to approximately these percents

and will be taxable only on increases in their incomes.

This failure of the law to reach n large portion
of excess profits is due to the provision of a credit
for every corporation equal to 95 percent of its base
period earnings, regardless of the size of those

earnings in relation to its invested capital.
III - Remedies

Revisions of the excess profits tax to be considered adequate, must reach the two kinds of profits
which I have been discussing. The tax can reach a

much larger proportion of defense profits if there is a
reduction in the 8 percent credit on invested capital.
Profits in excess of a necessary normal return can be
reached by taxing all profits above a stated percentage
of invested capital, regardless of average base period
earnings.

383

-9These were the basic elements of the Treasury

excess profits tax proposal of 1940, and it 1s this
plan, with modifications dictated by experience, that
we suggest. In that proposal corporations were to be
allowed free of the excess profits tax an amount of
earnings equal to their earnings during the base period,
but not more than 10 percent of invested capital. However, they were granted a minimum credit of 4 percent of

invested capital with 6 percent allowed on the first
$500,000. Thus, under that plan a concern which earned
7 percent during the base period would be allowed to

continue to earn 7 percent free of tax. A concern which
earned only 2 percent during the base period would

be permitted to earn 4 percent free of tax. A concern
which earned 15 percent during the base period would

be allowed to earn 10 percent free of tax.
Under the 1940 Treasury proposal it was recognized

that if business is to expand and investors are to put
money into new corporations, an opportunity must be
allowed to earn an adequate rate of return on new

capital. The plan allowed an 8 percent return on new
capital, with a 10 percent return up to $500,000,
regardless of the earnings experience during the base

period on old capital.

384

- 10 -

If the plan submitted by the Treasury last year
had been applied to the examples previously presented,

the tax results would have been quite different. For
example, one corporation which had a 30 percent return

on its invested capital in the base period would have paid
excess profits tax on over half of its 1940 income
instead of on one-twelfth as under the present law.
Another with a slightly lower rate of return would also

have paid on over half instead of on one-fifth of its
income. The large industrial company which received over
$250 million of defense contracts would have paid excess

profits tax on over one-third of its income and the other
company with poor earnings in the base period would have

paid on about one-fifth of its income instead of both
companies being entirely exempt.

Even this plan, however, would have failed to
reach substantial amounts of defense profits received
by corporations which had especially poor earnings

during the base period. To meet this defect we would
suggest revising the 1940 proposal to provide that
where the average earnings of the base period were less
than the minimum of 4 percent, the excess profits tax

should be applied at a low flat rate, possibly 10 percent,

to that part of the current profits that is in excess of

385

- 11 the base period earnings but not in excess of 4 percent

of invested capital. For example, if a corporation
earned during the base period an average of $100,000 a

year, while 4 percent of its invested capital amounts
to $300,000, the first $100,000 of profits in the
current taxable year would be entirely exempt from

excess profits tax, the next $200,000, representing
the difference between the $100,000 average earnings

and the $300,000 credit on invested capital, would be
taxed at 10 percent and any earnings over $300,000

would be subject to the regular excess profits tax
rates. This minimum rate of tax would subject all
increases in profits during the defense period at least
to some excess profits taxation without unduly burdening
concerns whose increased earnings are not truly defense

profits.
We would suggest also that the rate allowed on

new capital be the same as that originally suggested,

namely, 8 percent, with 10 percent for additions to

capital that do not bring the total invested capital
above $500,000. Any maximum return on capital must be

a somewhat arbitrary figure because businesses differ

widely in the degree of risk they face. Accordingly,

386

- 12 it is desirable not to set too low a maximum rate of return.
Similarly, it would be desirable to keep the tax
rate low on that part of profits which is immediately
above the credit. To this end we suggest that tax
rates be graduated in accordance with the rate of
return on invested capital starting with a moderate

initial rate.
Moreover, with this new broad excess profits base,
it would be possible to adapt ourselves quickly and
much more easily to a need for still larger revenues if
the emergency should so require. The future is especially
uncertain during an emergency period, and we might have

to act quickly. It is better to have a broad excess
profits tax base carefully worked out while we still
have the time than to petch up the present law and

take the risk of finding ourselves confronted with the
necessity of improvising such a base on short notice
at a later date.
Thus far I have outlined the principles of excess
profits taxation which in our opinion should be followed
in this emergency period and have indicated ways in

which the existing law fails to carry them out. If
you share our belief in these principles, I believe
you will agree that a plan like the one I have outlined

387
- 13 -

is the logical method of putting the principles into

practical operation. Variation in details is not a
matter of concern, 80 long as the plan adopted taxes

both defense profits and excess profits, which the present
law does not do.

IV. Possible alternative
If these principles are not to be the guide for
taxing corporations during the emergency period, it
would be well to bear in mind the disadvantages of the
tax in its present form, which involves the administra-

tive difficulties inevitably accompanying excess profits
taxation but fails to tax large amounts of profits that
it properly should reach. A simpler, more easily administered plan would, of course, be to abandon the excess

profits tax and to increase the corporation income tax
by enough to produce the desired revenue. With such an

increase in the corporation income tax there should, in
my judgment, be coupled a provision for reducing the

tax when the earnings of the corporation are immediately
made subject to the individual income tax.
This kind of a plan would be in harmony with the

idea of integrating the corporation and the individual
taxes, placing chief reliance on the taxation of income
of individuals. Profiting from our experience with
previous plans of this general character, many difficulties previously met can very likely be avoided and

388

- 14 -

equitable taxation of profits to the individual stockholder provided.

I do not set forth this plan as one that carries
into effect the principles which I previously discussed.
It is based on principles of its own and is suggested
as an alternative, not a substitute.
When I first appeared before the Committee in
executive session and discussed this tax program with

you generally, I told you that I thought there were
certain types of durable commodities, such as electric
refrigerators, automobiles, watches, clocks, and
cameras, the reduced consumption of which would be

helpful to national defense, not only because the
plants are adaptable to defense work, but also because
the materials used in these commodities are used in
defense articles and the workmen who manufacture these

things are possessed of the very skills that are needed

in many of our defense plants. During that first
discussion different members of the Committee expressed

the view that taxes on some of these articles should be
higher than were recommended and I assured them that

we would not object to some increases on these particular
articles. Since that time there has been so much dis-

cussion about various excise taxes that I think I

should repeat to you what I said before -- that I do

389

- 15 -

believe these articles are the type that it is highly
desirable to tax not only for revenue but also to reduce
demands for goods which compete with the defense program.

We cannot expect to devise a painless tax bill.

The situation calls for sacrifices. As Secretary
Morgenthau has already told you, we have had unmistakable

evidence that the people are willing to make sacrifices

according to their ability. Outside the tax field greater
sacrifices are being asked and cheerfully made. There
is no basis for comparing the sacrifice of those who
are asked to exchange the security of a job and a home

for a soldier's pay and a soldier's hardships with the
sacrifices of those who are asked to pay even drastically
higher rates of tax.

.000 -

390

5/19/41
FROM:

TO:

MR. SCHWARZ'S OFFICE

The Secretary

The first committee members to
have a chance are pounding John

a bit on the economy issue.

Robertson of Virginia on the
Democratic side and Treadway on

the Republican side are going
after him.

@

391
TREASURY DEPARTMENT
INTER OFFICE COMMUNICATION

DATE May 19, 1941

Secretary Morgenthau
FROM

Herbert Merillat
HEARINGS OF THE WAYS AND MEANS COMMITTEE

Monday, May 19, 1941

Excess Profits Tax

Almost a full committee was on hand to hear Mr. Sullivan's
statements. Their comments and questions indicated that their

opinions on excess profits taxes had not crystallized but that the
Treasury program would get favorable consideration. Many members

seemed to welcome a higher EPT yield to offset excise cuts they
want to make.

Some resistance to abandoning the average earnings method

of computing the excess profits credit was evident. Robertson,
bringing out that a majority of small corporations used the average
earnings credit, wanted (and got from Mr. Sullivan) assurance that
the policy of favoring small corporations under the EPT law would
be continued.

Disney remarked that most refund cases under the World War

EPT arose from difficulties in computing invested capital. Buck
said he would oppose the Treasury plan unless appreciation in

assets were included in computing invested capital. Crowther and

-2-

392

Carlson indicated an interest in providing further relief for
"growth" corporations.
Excises

Doughton asked if Mr. Sullivan agreed with the Henderson
recommendation that no increases be made in excises on goods not

competing with defense production (tobacco). Mr. Sullivan replied
that if there were increases in the EPT yield and in excises on
articles competing with defense production, reductions in other
excises would be possible.

McKeough appeared to favor elimination of the proposed in-

creases on tobacco, gasoline, and beer. He asked if the proposed
higher EPT yield would compensate for the loss of revenue result-

ing from the elimination of such excises, suggesting that the

Treasury estimates of yield were too low. Mr. Sullivan replied
that the Treasury estimates were meant to be as accurate as pos-

sible. As the estimates now stand, increased EPT yield would not
completely compensate for the revenue loss from elimination of
the increases mentioned by McKeough.
Broadening the Base

Robertson and Treadway asked if the Treasury is still opposed to lowering the personal income tax exemptions. Mr. Sul-

livan replied that it is.

-3-

393

Non-defense Spending

Republican members criticized Mr. Sullivan for failure to
recommend reductions in non-defense spending. Mr. Sullivan replied
that although he favors possible economies, he does not regard it
as within his province to recommend specific cuts. He emphasized

that even if one billion dollars is saved, the revenue goal should
still be 31 billions. Disney said the Treasury program would raise
much more than 31 billions.
Differences between Treasury and
Henderson-Eccles Plans

Implying that the differences between the two plans indicate
a split in Administration opinion, Jenkins and Knutson asked
whether those differences have been composed and whether the

Treasury plan represents the President's views. Mr. Sullivan
pointed out that the President had approved this morning's statement and said the Treasury proposals could be regarded as the Ad-

ministration's program. Knutson remarked that he was inclined to
go along with the Treasury proposals rather than the Henderson-

Eccles plans because taxation is in the province of the Treasury.

394
TREASURY DEPARTMENT
INTER OFFICE COMMUNICATION

DATE May 19, 1941
TO

FROM

Miss Chauncey

Secretary Morgenthau

Please see that we have all the drafts that Roy

Blough prepared for me on the tax bill. I think we
have them all, but I haven't got the one that he

brought to me at the house at twelve o'clock on
Sunday. As far as I know that is the only one that
is missing, and that was the next to the last one that
I received. The one which they brought to the house
Sunday night at six o'clock, when Jere Cooper and

Doughton were there, I think is the final draft.

5/21/41

Miss Chauncey reported that she

has all of these drafts.

5/19/41

6:30 p. m.

395

RADIO STATION WMAL

Claude Mahoney: In other Capital developments, the
House Ways and Means Committee heard a recommendation

from the Treasury today that Congress revise the excess

profits tax laws and impose a six percent income surtax.
This program, according to Assistant Treasury Secretary
Sullivan, would net the Government more than a billion

dollars above present corporation taxes. The corporate

levies, Sullivan said, are necessary in order to recapture some of the profits being made from the defense
program, profits you might be spending for expensive
automobiles.

7:55 p. m.

RADIO STATION WWDC

Announcer: Washington. The Treasury Department has

urged Congress to stiffen the excess profits tax to help
pay for the defense program, and this plan has the implied
approval of President Roosevelt -- for Assistant Secretary
of the Treasury John Sullivan told the House Ways and Means

Committee that it would be correct to infer that he was
speaking for the Administration in urging such a program.

396

8:55 p. m.

RADIO STATION WWDC

Announcer: Before the House Ways and Means Committee

today, AssistantTreasury Secretary, John Sullivan, urged

that Congress stiffen the excess profits tax to help
finance the defenee program and Sullivan told the

Committee that it would be correct to infer that this
suggestion has the endorsement of the Administration.

12:00

RADIO STATION WINX

Announcer: The figure-filled House Ways and Means
Committee received an even more bewildering array of
proposed tax levies from the Treasury Department today.

The Government's fiscal experts have now revised their

plans to tax excess profits and urge that an even larger
slice be cut for Uncle Sam. The amount now runs as high
as 65 percent and would be on top of the companies'

normal tax of 30 percent.

397
4645

MEMORANDUM

May 19. 1941

CONFIDENTIAL
To:

PRICE ADMINISTRATION COMMITTEE

From: R. K. Thompson, Secretary

Appended hereto are:

1. Minutes of the meeting of May 15.
2. Agenda for the meeting Wednesday, May 21, at
11:00 a.m.

398

4645

CONFIDENTIAL

SUMMARY OF STENOGRAPHIC TRANSCRIPT OF MEETING OF
PRICE ADMINISTRATION COMMITTEE

May 15. 1941
11:00 a.m.

Chairman: Mr. Henderson

Present: Secretary Wickard, Miss Elliott, Messrs. March, Ryder,
Ezekiel, Clayton, Lubin, Pike, Shaughnessy, Nelson,
O'Connell, Goodloe, Barnes, Weiner, Hamm, Galbraith,
Ginsburg, Thompson

1. Installment credit
Mr. Henderson reported that Rolf Nugent of the OPACS staff
and Director of Consumer Credit, Russell Sage Foundation, has prepared
a memorandum on the place of consumer credit in defense, which is available to committee members who wish to read it. Mr. Nugent has been in
consultation wi th Federal Reserve Board representatives concerning the
possible restriction of consumer credit on automobiles and other commodities which utilize materials needed for defense production.
Mr. Hamm pointed out that so far as the Federal Reserve Board

is concerned, the problem principally resolves itself into one of administration. He added that over-all control would probably be simpler
than control of a specific commodity.
Mr. Henderson emphasized that no commitment has been made to

the Federal Reserve Board concerning any commodity or commodities, but

that since it would take several months to construct the mechanics of a
system of control, the spade work is under way so that the mechanism will

be available if it is decided to use it. He added that before any action
is taken an expression of the committee would be asked.

2. Stock pile of lead
Mr. Weiner outlined the desirability of having a Government
stock pile of lead of from 50 to 100 thousand tons accumulated before
shipping difficulties become acute. No dissent was expressed to follow
ing this matter through the regular procedure. Mr. Weiner said he would

make available to the members of the committee a memorandum which had
been prepared on the subject.

3. Bituminous coal

Mr. Henderson spoke of the possibility of another walkout if
current negotiations do not result in the solution of the Yorth-South
wage differential controversy in the bituminous coal industry. He
pointed out that, since the Bituminous Coal Division has received sporadic
reports that coal is now being sold at A premium of from 25 to 75 cents A
ton and in some cases even higher than the mine prices which were set by

4645

2

399

the Bituminous Coal Commission, another walkout would probably necessi-

tate another ceiling on prices. -Because of OPACS responsibility for both
prices and civilian supplies, Mr. Henderson expressed the hope that the
National Mediation Board would be drawn back into the negotiations before another walkout occurs, and suggested the desirability of so recommending to the President.

The consensus was that, without making a specific recommenda-

tion, Mr. Henderson on his own responsibility should apprise the Presi-

dent of the current price difficulties and indicate the feeling that

prompt intervention of the Mediation Board might prevent another walkout.

4. Automobile production

Mr. Henderson expressed his belief that neither the present
rate of production nor the proposed cut to 80 percent could be maintained in the automobile industry, since some manufacturers have scraped
the bottom of the barrel so far as certain necessary supplies are concerned. Mr. Weiner reported Mr. Whiteside's opinion that not more than
a 40 percent production is possible in the face of present shortages of
rare metals and of the present demand for steel for the railroad program
and all other requirements.
Mr. Nelson expressed his concern and that of the Priorities
Division that because materials which are now not needed in the defense
program are rapidly being put into automobiles and other commodities and
when the program further expands and need for speed is even greater than

it is now, they will be unavailable instead of being in stock piles. He

suggested that an intense study should be made of this matter by a special
committee. He also pointed out the necessity of attempting to prevent
unemployment insofar as possible when the production of automobiles and
other commodities is decreased.

In this connection, there followed a general discussion of the
necessity of moving along several lines to insure adequate supplies of

materials needed in defense production. Mr. Henderson reported that
Mr. McConnell of the Production Division and others have considered

various problems of conservation involving the curtailment of civilian
requirements, the use of an industry committee for allocation, and expansion of facilities. Mr. Clayton suggested that it might be well to
appoint a committee to study the problem of reduced civilian consumption
of materials necessary in the defense program. Mr. Nelson added that the
use of substitutes and the reduction of the number of choices or selection of items produced by a single manufacturer would make equipment .
available to produce commodities needed for an expanding Army.

5. Price of hides
Mr. Galbraith reported that there has been a general high
advance in hides prices although the domestic market is fairly well
controlled. He added that representatives of the four largest packing
companies are to confer informally with representatives of OPACS and OPM

to explore the possibility of working out stabilization of hide prices

-3-

4645

400

at 8 level which will make it possible to continue bringing in South
American hides and not necessitate any significant advance in the price.
of shoes.

6. Nitrogen situation
Mr. Galbraith reported that, though at present there will
only be isolated shortages in the Southeast, the nitrogen situation by
next year will probably be very bad. Allied Chemical has not yet started
construction of a plant at West Henderson which is badly needed to add

to present facilities, and the increased tightening of shipping facilities
will make the securing of Chilean nitrate increasingly difficult even
though prices there remain unchanged up to now. Secretary Wickard added

that unless the use of nitrates in some fertilizer mixtures can be curtailed the situation may become critical.
7. Control of speculation in commodity exchanges

Mr. Galbraith reported that four meetings are scheduled next
week with commodity exchanges which do not come under present Federal

regulations of the CEA. It is hoped to secure agreement on a substantial increase in the marginal requirements and for a segregation of accounts to avoid the strictly speculative accounts in future.
Secretary Wickard reported that one of the problems facing the

Commodity Credit Corporation is that if they continue to offer corn of a
certain kind at 70 cents, as has been done in the past, they will play
into the hands of speculators. He also pointed out that on the basis of

some unauthorized reports that meat and other prices would go up 10 or
20 percent there have been some increases. He reported his gratification
at the way the packers have cooperated, making it possible for the Department to accumulate several million pounds of pork and lard at less than
the present replacement price. Though there is difficulty at present in
selling some of the stored meat, Secretary Wickard expressed the belief
that there would be no unverranted increase in the price of hogs unless
there is some unforeseen agitation.

The committee adjourned at 12:55 p.m. to meet Wednesday,
May 21 at 11:00 a.m.

401
CONFIDENTIAL

4645

OFFICE OF PRICE ADMINISTRATION AND CIVILIAN SUPPLY

OF F ICE

To:

MEMORANDUM

Price Administration Committee

May 19, 1941

From: R. K. Thompson, Secretary

The following items are on the agenda for discussion at
the meeting to be held on Wednesday, May 21, 1941, at 11:00 a.m.

:

1. Report on commodity exchange meetings.

2. Combed yarn situation.

3. Question of shipping rates, es raised in
memorandum addressed to Secretary Wickard

by Dr. Ezekiel under date of May 10.

DEPARTMENT OF STATE
WASHINGTON

reply refer to

May 19. 1911

The Secretary of State presents his compliments
to the Honorable the Secretery of the Treasury and transmits
herewith a copy of despatch no. 1488, dated May 17, 1941,

from the American Legation at Ottawa, with.its enclosure of
a certified copy of a note deted May 15, 1941, from The
Right Honorable W. L. Mackenzie King, Secretary of State

for External Affeirs of Canada. This note sets fort. the
guarantee of the Cenadian Government to the Government

of the United States of commitments, obligations and
covenants which the Company, "War Supplies Limited",

may give to any Department or Agency of the Government

of the United States.

Enclosure:

Copy of despatch no.
1483 with enclosure.

Obtama, May 19, 1941

488

subject: transmitting certified eopies of note
regarding creation of "War supplies
Limited.

Henorable

the Secretary of State,
Washington, D.C.

In accordance with a telephone conversation today

was the Minister and Mr. Hiskerson, I enclose haze-

five certified copies of note No. as, dated May 15,
which has been received from the Canadian Secretary

State for External Affairs in regard to the creation
*War Supplies Limited."
Respectfully yours,
For the Minister:

X ofalamed
the by
upiles of note No.85

Seate w

Joha F. Simpose

Gorinsaler of Legation

DOMINION OF GAUDA
CITY OF OTTARA
33.

LEGATION OF MIX
)

UNITED STATES V AMERICA.

I, John Y. Simons, Consul General of the United
States of America at Ottawn, Qannda, duly

and qualified, do hereby certify that the nnnexed copy
of Note No. 63, dated May 15, 1941, from the Department

of External Affairs, Ganada, is B true copy of the note
in the files of the Legation, the and having been carefully
examined by DE and compared with the file oopy and found to

agree th Towith word for word and figure for figure.
In witness whereof I have heraunto set my hand and

official seal this 17th day of liney, 1941.

John F. Simona,

Consul General of the United "tates of
America, Ottawn, Canada.

Service No. 372
No fee prescribed.

DEPARTMENT OF

KATERNAL AFFAIRS
CANADA

Ottave, May 15, 1941
83

Sir:

AS an instrument of putting into effect the
principles of the Hyde Park Declaration, agreed upon
between the President of the United States and the
Prime Minister of Canada, and following conversations
had in washington by officials of the Canadian Government
and officials of the United States Government, a company
known as "War supplies Limited" has been created.
This company will have a representative in Washington.
The Canadian Government hereby guarantees to

the United States Government all commitments,

obligations and covenants which this company may give to
any Department or Agency of the United States Government

in connection with any contracts or orders which may be
given to the said company by any Department or Agency
of the United States Government. The Canadian Government

agrees to waive notice of any change or modification
which may be made from time to time in these commitments,

obligations or covenants.
Accept, Sir, the renewed assurances of my

highest consideration.

(signed) .. L. Mackenzie king
Secretary of State

for External Affairs

The United States Minister to Canada,
United States Legation,
Ottawa, Canada

406
TREASURY DEPARTMENT
INTER-OFFICE COMMUNICATION

DATE May 19. 1941
TO

Secretary Morgenthau

FROM Mr. Cochran

STRICTLY CONFIDENTIAL

Upon an appointment made by Sir Frederick Phillips. Sir Edward Peacock celled

on me at 4 o'clock this afternoon. He said that he and Mr. Gifford were obliged
to fly down to Washington just for this afternoon to discuss a variety of matters
with Phillips and other British officials, and he wanted to drop in on me to mention one point.

Peacock referred to the circumstances, of which he knew we were aware from
our message sent to him through Phillips recently when representatives of Morgen

and Stanley and Dillon and Read called on us. giving rise to a consideration of

the possibility of revising the Viscose transaction. I told him that the Secretary

had definitely opposed any revision when the bankers called on him recently. He
said this was the message he had received from Phillips and it was entirely to his

liking, since he realizes how important to us it is to have the Viscose transaction
O through as originally planned. Again last week, however, the question was
raised by the manager of Viscose, who is the one principally working for the revi-

sion. Peacock insisted that Hanbury Williams, the banker who came out from England
with him and who also is interested in Viscose, was not taking any initiative, and
is ready to go back to England at any moment. Peacock thought, moreover, that the
cuestion was settled until this morning when he had a call from the bankers.
the
Harold Stanley told him that over the weekend the bankers had talked with some of
seventeen underwriters. The latter have become quite nervous and feel that the
market is so soft that it may not be possible to realize nearly as much through a
public issue of Viscose securities as originally contemplated. The people wanting
to see the deal revised have been scouting around to see if they cannot raise as
such money on a loan, or even more, then might be obtained through this out-and-out
sale. Peacock has thought that this counterplan could not succeed. but the visit
of Stanley this morning has made him a little nervous. He is under the impression
that the bankers will request another interview with Secretary Morgenthau he this feels week. a

Ie wanted to let us know what is taking place in the meantime. that is. from the
duty to report directly to us. and not oblige us to depend upon reports directly
bankers or the market. When I asked whether he desired to make a report definite at this

to the Secretary. Peacock said that there was nothing sufficiently
time to warrant it. He is returning to New York tonight. He is making some
progress on other deals, but finds that the poor state of the market. particularly
following the Vichy developments, is a real handicap.

ame.

407

(True copy as received at 10:30 a.m. May 19. 1941, from the Department
of State, of message sent to American Embassy at London, and as dic-

tated to Mr. Brown of Secretary Hull's office at 6 D.M. on Sunday.
May 18, by Mr. Cochran of the Treasury, after a conversation by tele-

phone with Secretary Morgenthau at 5:45 p.m. May 18, 1941.)

AMERICAN EMBASSY
LONDON

FOR THE AMBASSADOR FROM SECRETARY MORGENTHAU

I would appreciate cabled report of circumstances and underlying

purpose of visit of J.M. Keynes to this country.

S:ASB

Copy:lap:5/19/41

TO: m Bell White

For
you
and
m
while to read-

then return to
Secretary's files
metro I drup growt

g

From: LIEUT. STEPHENS

409
PARAPHRASE OF TELEGRAM RECEIVED

FROM: American Embassy, London, England

DATE: May 19, 1941, 9 p.m.

NO.: 2005

The following telegram is strictly confidential
for the Secretary of the Treasury:
Reference is made to your telegram of today, no. 1713
of May 18, 8 p.m., from the Department.
Reference also, telegram of March 18, 8 p.m., no. 1060

from the Embassy: As was set forth in the latter telegram
(addressed to the President, Secretary Hull, and Secretary

Morgenthau), shortly after I arrived in London I WAS told
by both the Prime Minister and the Chancellor of the
Exchequer that they were deeply concerned about the report

that the United States, under its lease-lend act, would
take over a much smaller amount of the existing commitments

of the British in the United States than they had contemplated

would be taken over. It was the belief of the Prime Minister
and the Chancellor of the Exchequer that they should have
more leeway and freedom than they would be given under the
arrangements as then contemplated.

I informed them at that time that I could not do much
more than report to Washington what they had said, since
the matter was a complicated one and had been discussed in
many

410

-2many conversations at Washington between you and representa-

tives of the British Government. I made the suggestion that
it would be better to have such conversations at Washington,

should it be desired to pursue the matter further. The
British representatives and you would then together have
all of the data on which decisions could be based. The
idea apparently took root from our discussions that the
British might well send a representative from over here who
had current knowledge of what they needed, so he would be

available for further discussions with you. Both the
Prime Minister and the Chancellor selected Keynes, and I
personally thought they made a good choice in him. To me

it appeared that Keynes had a broad view of the situation,

and he seemed to be the most likely of all officials in the
British Treasury to understand the difficulties facing the
Americans and the British. Also, I believed that these
difficulties presented a problem common to both countries.
It was my belief that both you and President Roosevelt
knew Keynes and liked him, and I also knew that you were

putting work on a program for saving, and I hoped he might
be of some help to you on that program.

Before Keynes left I sent telegram of April 22, 9 p.m.,
no. 1590 from the Embassy. Keynes told me, prior to his
leaving, that he believed there had been considerable relaxation

in the tension over the financial situation after the
Brown

411

-3Brown and Williamson loan was announced. In addition

Keynes said that it was his hope that while he was in the
United States he could learn more about the economic problems

connected with our own war effort and make an effort to
find out how the United States was thinking on possible
economic problems that may arise after the war.

The following is the text of the official announcement

of Keynes' visit - which I believe covers his strictly
official work: (in paraphrase) At the request of the
Chancellor of the Exchequer, Mr. John Maynard Keynes is

making a short visit to Washington for the purpose of
discussing the operation of the Lease-Lend Act and other
related matters with the United States Administration and

the British Supply Council.
It was Keynes' idea, when he left London, that he
would not stay more than about six weeks in the United States.
His health has not been good, and just before he left he
had some difficulty in a bombing raid.

It is my sincere hope that the visit of Keynes is
not proving to be unhelpful to you.
END MESSAGE.
WINANT

EA:LWW

412

PLAIN

JT

LONDON

Dated May 19, 1941

Rec'd 12:55 p.m.

Secretary of State,
Washington.

1996, nineteenth.
FOR TREASURY.

British Treasury orders issued today require all
payments to Mexico, the six Central American Republics,
Cuba, Haiti, Dominican Republic, Venezuela and Equador

to be made in sterling into accounts to be called "Central
American accounts" which will be available only for
payments to the sterling area or to other Central American
accounts. United Kingdom Exports to the countries

concerned must be paid for in sterling from a Central
American account or in dollars or in registered sterling.
WINANT

RR

A23

413

MEMORANDUM
FROM

British Supply Council
TO

Mrs. Helen S. Klotz

Compliments of E.N. Gray

414

STATEMENT NO. 15
AIRCRAFT SHIPPED TO U. K. AND OVERSEAS COMMANDS
By Sea

During Week
DESTINATION

ASSEMBLY
POINT

Ending

April 26, 1941

-

F. E.

Singapore

U. K.

U. K.

U. K.

U. K.

U. K.

U. K.

S. Africa

Cape Town

20

adson V

U. K.

U. K.

23

U. K.

U. K.

-

mison V

effalo

hesapeake

By Air
During week
ending
May 17. 1941

14

3

LAS

oston III

-

12

WWAN

artlett II

5

ON MARTIN

laryland I

-

SHEED

3

(via Gander)

SOLIDATED

atalina

F. E.

liberator LB-30A U. K.

5

-

U. K.

(via Bermuda)
2

-

Singapore

(via Bermuda)
U. K.

(via Gander )

.

atalina

U. K.

7

-

ING

27

U. K.

TALS
ritish Air Commission
ay 19, 1941

U. K.

-

6

(via Gander)
77

23

415
ALLISON SHIPMENTS

STRICTLY CONFIDENTIAL

British
Total

C

ec. 29 - Jan.

4

-

8

83

an. 12 - 18

41

an. 19 - 25

33

-

an. 26 - Feb. 1

31

-

Feb. 2 8

60

-

Feb. 9 15

30

1

-

-

Total

F

-

1

-

Feb. 23 - Mar. 1

-

6

-

-

-

TOTAL
12

-

33

-

-

-

31

-

60

25

-

31

32

-

-

77

-

-

88

1

2

1

72

-

36

14

I

-

89

10

1

24

41

1

24

Apr. 6 12

60

Apr. 13 - 19

12

Apr. 20 - 26

-

-

-

5

1

66

-

14

2

2

-

3

-

-

-

-

33

32

8

6

1

-

-

-

66

-

80
91

-

-

71

-

74

14

12

3

5

80

-

53

103

-

71

-

47

5

77

-

17

3

a

-

86

91

2

1

-

-

2

-

3

80

3

6

Mar. 30 - April 5

35

2

-

2

26

-

1

-

87

-

-

69

Mar. 23 - 29

43

1

6

-

-

-

-

36

-

1

-

Mar. 16 - 22

2

-

-

85

2

2

10

88

-

21

7

2

3

1

9

10
-

ADR. 27 - May 3

Day 4 10
May 11 - 17

-

24

53

11

594

24

24

9

73

13

631

TOTAL Dec. 29 May 17

fice of the Secre tary of the Treasury,
Division of Research and Statistics.

-

-

438

8

7

7

46

GRAND

C

-

4

2

41

-

-

6

83

-

-

Feb. 16 - 22

Mr. 9 15

8

E

C

China

3

an. 5 11

Mar. 2 8

Army

19

9

14

-

38

13

20

-

93

45

529

20

7

1,180

May 19, 1941.

STRICTLY CONFIDENTIAL

416

ALLISON DIVISION, GENERAL MOTORS CORP.

Shipments of Airplane Engines

940

January

May 24 - June 22

June 23 - July 20
July 21 - Aug. 17
Aug. 18 - Sept. 14
Sept. 15 - Oct. 12
Oct. 13 - Nov. 9
Nov. 10 - Dec. 7
Dec. 8 - Jan. 4

:

shipments

:

Actual

Estimated shipments

on existing orders

10
28
43
47

140
263

233

154
228

941

January 5 - February 1
February 2 - March 1

March 2 - 8
March 9 - 15

March 16 - 22
March 23 - 29

March 30 - April 5

oril 6 - 12

April 13 - 19
April 20 - 26
April 27 - May 3
May 4 10
May 11 17
May 18 31
June

July
August
September

October
November
December
1942

January
February

Office of the Secretary of the Treasury,
Division of Research and Statistics.

193
323
77

so
53

103
71
88
21
19
9

38
93

198
420
475
580
700
800
900

1,000

1,000
730

May 19, 1941

417
C

0
P
Y

DEPARTMENT OF STATE
WASHINGTON

May 19. 1941

The Secretary of State presents his compliments to
the Honorable the Secretary of the Treasury and encloses a copy
of a paraphrase of telegram no. 392 dated May 17, 1941 from the
American Consulate General at Zurish, regarding commercial and

financial negotiations between Germany and Switzerland.

Inclosure:
No. 292, May 17.

from Zurich.

chicopy
5-20-41

418
PARAPHRASE OF TELEGRAM RECEIVED

FROM: American Consulate General, Zurich.

DATE: May 17. 1941, 4 p.m.

NO. : 292

This telegram should be held in strictest confidence.
An informant who has recently come back from Bern, where

he attended a session of the Swiss Parliament, has given me the

following information:
(a) There is no substantial factual foundation for rumors of the
German demands for demobilising the Army of Switzerland. It is
probable that the Germans are circulating such rumors throughout this
country. However, there may be some foundation for these rumors in

the fact that Switzerland is making great efforts to secure the largest
possible amount of German iron in the present negotiations to extend
the clearing agreement between Switzerland and Germany, the expiration

date of which is June 30 of this year. The Germane, however, do not

want to give this iron, stating that the construction of fortifications
in the mountains by Switzerland is still going on and that they are

reluctant to contribute material which will be used for fortifications
being built against a possible future German invasion.
(b) The report that the Germans are demanding a credit of one

billion france for financing commodity exports (this sum would also
cover the amount which Germany owes Switzerland in clearing account)

is true. According to my informant, however, Switzerland has replied
that Swiss industries cannot in the present circumstances manufacture
goods on such a scale and that acceptance of such conditions was there-

419

-2 fore impossible. In this connection, I ought to point out that all
of the Reich's clearing agreements have contained special accounts

with provisions for allotment of funds to the Reichabank as free
exchange consisting of 12 percent of the total payments in these

accounts into the clearing office of Switzerland. It is said that
this foreign exchange is used mainly to take care of interest
payments to Switzerland; however, it can also be used outside of the

latter country.
(c) This source denied that the Germans were making any demand

that decrees be introduced against the Jews.
STEWART

EA:MSG

EH:copy

5-20-41

420

(Translation of code message received from the Swiss National Bank,
dated Zurich May 19. 1941, by Mr. Cochran in the Treasury on May 19.
1941.)

2wn px

Zuerich 29/27 ode 19 1735
1941 May 19 AM 11 49
H M Cochran

United States Treasury Department Washington

Since our wire of 9 May please be advised that

our Director Victor Gautier is leaving Lisbon, Portugal today
by Clipper for New York, New York.
Banque Nationale Suisse, Zurich.

COPY:lap:5/19/41

421

C

o

p

CONFIDENTIAI

y

No. 472, to
Embassy, China.

AMERICAN CONSULATE GENERAL

Shanghai, China.
May 19. 1941.
CONFIDENTIAL.

SUBJECT: Detention at Shanghai of the S.S. PRESIDENT COOLIDGE

on account of a silver shipment made by the Chase Bank.
THE HONORABLE

THE SECRETARY OF STATE,
WASHINGTON.
SIR:

I have the honor to refer to this office's despatch no. 1775,
October 27, 1938, and to the exchange of telegrams between the
Department and this Consulate General on the subject of the shipment of certain silver stocks on the S.S. PRESIDENT COOLIDGE and

to enclose a copy of a personal and confidential letter addressed to

me under date of April 5. 1941 by Mr. A. E. Schumacher, Second Vice
President of the Chase Bank, Shanghai. The letter from Mr. Schumacher
sets forth certain overtures made by the Japanese in connection with

a proposal to ship the silver now in the vaults of the Chase Bank to
the United States Treasury. Shortly after the above letter was
written Mr. Schumacher proceeded to the United States on home leave
and nothing further has been heard from the Japanese proposals.

The Department's attention is especially invited to the statement
contained in the last paragraph of Mr. Schumacher's letter to the

effect that "the silver that is held by us is the property of the

Central Bank of China, whose head office is now in Chungking" and

that "it was originally lodged with us in 1936 and was used from time
to time as collateral for various commitments of the Central Bank of
China" but that "at the moment there are no obligations of the Central
Bank which would give us a lien on the silver".
It will be observed that Mr. Schumacher did not look with favor
on the proposals made by the Japanese and that he was not willing to
associate himself with any transaction not in conformity with local
Customs regulations.

Respectfully yours,
Frank P. Lockhart
American Consul General

422
-2Enclosure:

1/- Copy of letter from
Mr. Schumacher

851

FPL:LMP

In quintuplicate to the Department
Copy to Embassy, Chungking.
Copy to Embassy, Peiping.
Copy to Embassy, Tokyo.

Copy:bj:6-19-41

423
Enclosure No. 1 to despatch No. 472 of Frank P. Lockhart, American Consul
General at Shanghai, China, dated May 19, 1941, on the subject:
at
Shanghai
the S.S.
PRESIDENT COOLIDGE on account of a silver "Detention shipment
made
by theofChase
Bank."

COPY

THE CHASE BANK

Shanghai

April 5th 1941
Personal and Confidential.
Mr. F. P. Lockhart, Consul General,
American Consulate General,
Shanghai.

Dear Mr. Lockhart:

I mentioned to you yesterday that I had a caller who was very much

interested in the silver now in our vault. The caller, a Japanese by the
name of J. Aiuchi, is the civilian adviser to the Naval Attache's Office.
He came to see me the first time on March 28th, then again on April 2nd
and again this morning. The gist of our conversation, beginning with his

first call, was as follows:-

Mr. Aiuchi told me that the Japanese authorities know that we still
have the silver that we tried to ship out in October 1938 but which had to
be unloaded and returned to our vault. The Japanese authorities, according

to Mr. Aiuchi, are interested in buying our silver. I pointed out to Mr.
Aiuchi that our silver is not for sale and that we are in no particular
hurry to dispose of it but that we would like to ship it to the United
States as we would like to sell the silver to the United States Treasury.

I pointed out to Mr. Aiuchi that we would be very much interested in having
our previous export permit reinstated so that we could ship the silver to
San Francisco and, if necessary, we would pay the export duties that may be

chargable on the silver. I also pointed out that there is only one market
for silver and that is the United States Treasury and that if the United
States Treasury did not approve of the method of the disposal of the silver
there would probably be no way of selling it. I also took the occasion to
point out that the silver has very little value to anyone unless the United
States Treasury is willing to take it and that the United States Treasury

would probably not buy it from anyone but us and that if we should 'lose'
the silver, the United States Treasury might decide not to purchase any
more silver from the Far East, including Japan. Mr. Aiuchi then suggested
the possibility of the Japanese Navy buying the silver, taking delivery of

it and paying for it in Shanghai, and they would load it on their own transports and take the silver to Japan, without getting a Custome permit. In

424

-2-

Japan it would be put on a ship for San Francisco consigned to us.
told Mr. Aiuchi that we would not want to be party to any transaction I
that was not in line with the local Customs regulations but that if we
were to sell the silver and get paid for it we would have no control
over what the buyer intended to do with it, but on the other hand we
would not do anything with our silver that would interfere with the

possibility of the U. S. Treasury buying it and if the U. S. Treasury
disapprove of it but they could refuse to buy the silver.
did not like the way the business was handled they would not have to

I am passing this information on to you in case further negotiations
take
place or in case a more definite proposition should be submitted
to us.

For your confidential information the silver that is held by us

is the property of the Central Bank of China, whose head office is now
in Chungking and it was originally lodged with us in 1936 and was used
from time to time as collateral for various commitments of the Central
Bank of China but at the moment there are no obligations of the Central
Bank which would give us a lien on the silver. We would not enter into
any agreement for the sale or shipment of the silver without the agreement of the Central Bank but we know that the Central Bank is quite
anxious to have the silver removed from Shanghai provided that they get

the benefit of the silver. We ourselves are anxious to get the silver

out of Shanghai because as long as it remains here there is always the
possibility of claims by other authorities who may want to get the
benefit of any assets of the Central Bank.
Yours very truly,
(Signed)

A. E. Schumacher

Second Vice President.

AES:LP

c/c - U. S. Treasury Office.

Copied by:

LMF

Compared with: MB

Cory:bj:6-19-41

425

May 19, 1941

My dear General Arnold:

Thank you very much for your
memorandum of May 17th in regard to
American e quipment in Egypt.

Yours sincerely,
(s) H. Morgenthau, Jr.
Major General H. H. Arnold,

Acting Deputy Chief of Staff,

War Department,

Washington, D.C.

426

SECRET
my 27, 1942

- FOR m. Subjects Status of American Squigment in Says.
The following cablegram arrived during ay temporary abounce from

the city, se partiage you my have already received 11. IS outlines the

status of I equipment in Septe

2. Ten to fifteen Martine are the only American planes

used in cambat to date. These were employed in notice range

- they have not yes been employed in boabing on

account of their lead of eight 250-pound beebs, which is considered
not sufficient, and beeb rasks are now being altered to hold four
500-pound bushe. The Markins have been found in general antisfactory

for recommitments, but - between pilot and nevigator

needs improvement and a reduction of noise is desirable.

2. Through lack of Party pilete and the inefficiency of

assembling facilities, only two equitame of Tenahank are available

for embat operation. They will be in the air is appreciately two

make.

3. - and Mohavite have been grounded pending

replacement of the end seal bearing eyes rings in B-1820 engines.
Belows and Solecture have been employed in transport daty and have
proved antistantary essept for excess engine wear due to desert

conditions. Air observers will inspect contact units after the
are in operation. Further detailed information will be
sent forward.

4. The following is the status of American planes in
Name of Newber Number under Major lomiting Un Breated Swate
Plans Service Importing Repairs Ferry week but not from
U.S.
is we
of
in
able
and repair
Depota

Bartine
21

23

4

1

4

18

25

190

0

10

12

10

7

Green
Lookhood
Hademe

0

3

Industry 1

SECRET

H. E. Arnold,
Major General, Air Coupo,

Asking Deputy Chief of Staff.

60

30

427
c

0

P

Y

PARAPHRASE OF TELEGRAM RECEIVED

FROM:

AMEMBASSY, RIO DE JANEIRO.

TO:

Secretary of State, Washington.

DATED:

May 19. 1941 - 3:55 p.m.

NO.:

498

The Brazilian Government is being approached by the

French Government concerning the possibility of buying

Brasilian cotton to be stored in Brasil until it can be
transported with interest payments on the section of
Brasilian Government bonds held by the French. Since its
signature in May, 1940, the agreement providing for these
interest payments has been entirely inoperative.
CAFFERY

EH:COPY

5-26-41

COPY

428

DEPARTMENT OF STATE

Washington

May 19, 1941

The Secretary of State presents his compliments to
the Honorable the Secretary of the Treasury and encloses
a copy of a paraphrase of telegram no. 488 dated May 18,
1941 from the American Embassy at Rio de Janeiro, regarding
a conversation between the American Ambassador and an

attache of the French Tubassy at Rio de Janeiro.

Enclosure:

No. 488, May 18,
from Rio de Janeiro.

eh:copy
5-20-41

COPY

429
PARAPHRASE OF TELEGRAM RECEIVED

FROM: American Embassy, Rio de Janeiro.

DATE: May 18, 1941, 6 p.m.
NO. $ 488.
The Vichy Government has just sent a telegram to the French

Embassy in Rio, which it appears was also sent to all of the other
French diplomatic missions in the Yestern Hemisphere and to the French

Financial Attache and Paymaster General in New York City. The following

is the substance of the instructions contained in this telegrant
Certain French missions have not been drawing the full amount of

dollar allotments which are available to them in New York for the
upkeep of the chanceries but have supplied their needs in part by also

using the funds of French creditors. In the future the missions must
draw the entire amount of their monthly allotments whether or not

there is a need for them. However, they must not vaive the right to
draw upon other French assets that can be transferred. If possible,
the missions must build up sufficient reserve funds to maintain the
missions for as long a period as a year. These reserve funds should

be kept in their safes or in other safe places and may be converted
as may be advisable. I am sending by airmail an exact reading of this
telegram from Vichy. Department is requested to inform the Treasury
Department.

An attache of the French Embassy here gave me this information.

He offers his future services to the United States Government for
purposes of information because he does not like the trend of events

in his country. I have the impression that his services would involve

430

-2 financial consideration, although he did not say so.
He added that he cannot add much worthwhile information

to the foregoing as yet, in view of the fact that his
Embassy is not being closely informed by Vichy. He said

that the staff of his Rubasay have nothing to do. The French
Embassy does not keep in contact with the German Embassy in Rio de
Janeiro.
CAFFERY

EA:MSG

ehicopy
5-20-41

C

431

0

P

Y

DEPARTMENT OF STATE

Washington

In reply refer to
EA 840.51 Frozen Credits/1780

May 19. 1941

The Secretary of State presents his compliments to

the Honorable the Secretary of the Treasury and, with

further reference to this Department's letter of
February 3. 1941, concerning the transfer of funds from
French Government accounts to the Central Bank of

Argentina to effect payment for certain exports of meat
and wool, transmits herewith a copy of telegram no. 445
dated May 16, 1941 from the American Embassy at Buenos
Aires.
Enclosure:

No. 445, May 16,
From Busnos Aires.

ehicopy

432

LS

GRAY

BUENOS AIRES

Dated May 16, 1941

Rec'd 5:21 p.m.

Secretary of State
Washington

445, May 16, 6 p.m.
Supplementing Embassy's despatch 1866 and tele-

grans 75 and 235. additional documents supporting

packers claims were sent by air mail by Central Bank

on April 29 at request of Treasury Department. Official
of Central Bank has expressed appreciation of any assistance the State Department can appropriately render to
secure unblocking French Government funds for payment

of packers' accounts.
ARMOUR

NPL

EH:COPY

5-20-41

433
TREASURY DEPARTMENT
INTER OFFICE COMMUNICATION
STRICTLY CONFIDENTIAL
TO

FROM

DATE May 19, 1941

Secretary Morgenthau
Mr. Wiley

FBI reports:

May 19. Italian employees of the Banco di Napoli of New York and Chicago
have received instructions to be ready to depart immediately for Buenos Aires.
There is a fear that an executive vice president intends to flee with the bank
capital. New York State Bank Examiners are investigating. A meeting is being
held today of Italian employees to discuss problems concerning their departure.
Between May 8 and 15, 1941 (on four days), the Banco di Napoli in New York withdrew from the Corn Exchange $665,000 in currency.

and

434
EXPORTS OF PETROLEUM PRODUCTS, SCRAP IRON AND SCRAP STEEL
FROM THE UNITED STATES TO JAPAN, RUSSIA, SPAIN, AND GREAT BRITAIN
AS SHOWN BY DEPARTURE PERMITS GRANTED

Week ended May 17, 1941

JAPAN

RUSSIA

SPAIN

GREAT BRITAIN

--

192,858 Bbls.

PROLEUM PRODUCTS

Fuel and Gas 011 (including

-

Diesel 011)
Crude

Blended or California
High Octane Crude*
All Other Crude

73,000 Bbls.
87,000 Bbls.

---

---

--

----

Gasoline -

Gasoline A**
Gasoline B*

All Other Gasoline

----

--

--

11,000 Bbls.

Lubricating 011 -

Aviation Lubricating 011***
All Other Lubricating 011

3,312 Bbls.
21,557 Bbls.

---

--

19,100 Bbls.

---

--

--

-

--

--

--

--

--

Number 1 Heavy Melting Scrap

--

--

--

9,205 Tons

All Other Scrap

--

--

--

6,440 Tons

Tetraethyl Lead***

"Boosters", such as IsoOctane, Iso-Hexane, or
Iso-Pentane
CRAP IRON AND SCRAP STEEL

Office of the Secretary of the Treasury, Division of Research and Statistics.
May 19, 1941.
Source: Office of Merchant Ship Control, Treasury Department.

Any material from which by commercial distillation there can be separated
more than 3 percent of aviation motor fuel, hydrocarbon or hydrocarbon
mixture - President's regulations of July 26, 1940.
Aviation Gasoline.

As defined in the President's regulations of July 26, 1940.

435
TREASURY DEPARTMENT
INTER-OFFICE COMMUNICATION

CONFIDENTIAL

DATE May 19, 1941

Secretary Morgenthau

TO

FROM

Mr. Haas DA

Subject: The Business Situation,

Week ending May 17, 1941.
Summary

(1) Prices of domestic agricultural products advanced
last week under the influence of Congressional approval of
mandatory crop loans at 85 percent of "parity" and of continued
Government purchases under the lend-lease act. A restraining
influence came from Administration warnings against speculation in commodity futures.
(2) General commodity prices and living costs are rising
more rapidly. The BLS all-commodity index showed the large

rise of 0.8 point to 84.0 in the week ended May 10. In April,
the NICB cost of living index rose 0.6 to 83.3 (1926 = 100),
the largest rise since September 1939.
(3) The Federal Reserve index of industrial production
in April was 139 (1935-1939 = 100, adjusted) compared with

143 in March. All of the decline arising from the coal strike

has now been more than regained by the New York Times index

of business activity, which reached 126.1 in the week ended
May 10 compared with the previous high of 124.3 in the March 29
week.

(4) Partly because of unusually heavy loadings of coal,
freight carloadings have now reached a total of 837,000 cars,
which is but 500 cars less than the seasonal peak reached
last fall. Hence, the need becomes more evident for additional
equipment before next October. In order to expedite deliver1es by freight car builders, a scheme has been worked out
with OPM which, it is claimed, would make possible the building of 160,000 care in 9 months, provided the necessary
materials can be secured.

(5) Further recovery of the steel industry from the effects of the coal strike will carry ingot production this
week to 99.9 percent of capacity, compared with a low of
94.3 at the end of April. Shipments of finished steel by the

U. S. Steel Corporation in April declined only 2 percent from
the previous month's record high.

-2-

436

Increased prices for domestic agricultural products
Prices of domestic agricultural products spurted upward
last week in response to the final Congressional approval on
mandatory loans on five farm products at 85 percent of
"parity." (See Chart 1.) However, some decline occurred at
the end of the week. With Government purchasing of food
products under the lend-lease act a continuing bullish influence, prices of other farm products showed a substantial advance, carrying upward the prices of various substitute and
competing products. On the other hand, certain restraining
influences operated to dampen price advances, including a

warning from Price Commissioner Leon Henderson against speculation in certain imported commodities and an announcement
from the Commodity Exchange Administration that they intend

to tighten the regulation of speculation in futures markets
under their supervision. Recent steep increases in the
prices of raw products have already begun to influence the

cost of living.

Higher loan rates on agricultural products
The extent of increase recently in the prices of four
of the products on which a mandatory loan rate of 85 percent
was approved by Congress last week is shown on Chart 2.
(Tobacco is not included because of inadequate price quota-

tions.) A substantial increase occurred in the prices of
cotton, corn, rice, and wheat between the end of February
and the end of April, but, except for rice, a striking
further increase was reported for the two weeks ended last
Friday. The change in the last two weeks shows the influ-

ence of Senate and House approval of the 85 percent loans.

On the basis of the latest parity prices available, as
of April 15, farm prices of cotton and wheat at that time
were approximately 66 percent of parity; therefore, they

could rise noticeably before reaching 85 percent. Corn was
already about 75 percent. But tobacco was over 85 percent and
rice was over the full 100 percent.
A major problem in administering the new loan program, if
approved by the President, is the handling of the very large
stocks, especially of cotton and wheat, already under loan.
Of the total cotton loans, for example, on the 1940-41 crop,
something over one-half the quantity has already been withdrawn. At current price levels, a substantial further amount
may come out of loan. Should these loan holdings be frozen
by Government action, on the other hand, a step which has been
mentioned as one possibility, an additional bullish influence
would be imparted to prices of agricultural products.

437

-3- Government purchasing of agricultural products
Purchasing of agricultural products by the Government

since March, partly for aid to Britain and partly for relief
distribution, has been a continuing influence in the direc-

tion of price increase, an influence which is represented by
price changes in lard, butter, and hogs shown on Chart 2.
Purchases for the account of Britain alone, including meats,
poultry products, and canned oitrus fruit and juices have totaled approximately $90 millions, according to Mr. Carl Robbins,
President of the Commodity Credit Corporation.
Since March 15 the Federal Surplus Commodities Corporation

has purchased about 210.5 million pounds of lard and pork. In
the same period Federal agencies have bought something like
22 million dozen shell eggs and just recently they have bought
frozen eggs equivalent to approximately 11 million dozen shell
eggs.

As a result, egg futures prices (not shown on the chart)
reached a new high for 6 years, while lard spot prices have
increased 50 percent since the end of February. (Refer to
chart.)

From the point of view of price control, not only the d1rect but also the indirect effects of the proposed loan program and the Government purchasing must be considered. Thus,

prices of coconut oil and cottonseed oil, which were already
stimulated by shortages of imported oils, have risen additionally because of the agricultural program; indeed, they have
risen relatively more since early March than have the com-

modities directly affected. (Refer to chart.) Print cloth

prices have also shown an indirect effect of the Government
program, rising almost 40 percent since the end of February.
Raw cotton prices have risen 24 percent in the same time. A
current announcement from the Price Administration indicates
that a price ceiling lower than current market prices on combed
yarns will be imposed within a few days.
All-commodity index considerably higher

Even without the increases in prices last week, the all-

commodity index for the week ended May 10 showed an advance

of 0.8 to 84.0 (BLS, 1926 = 100), a very substantial advance

for this index. (See Chart 3, lower section.) The rise was

caused primarily by increases in coke, oils and fats, rubber,
and foods. These increases, especially in food prices, have

438
4

also begun to affect the co st of living as shown on Chart 3,
upper section. The NICB cost of living index (1926 - 100)
rose 0.6 in April to 83.3, the largest advance since
September 1939.

Warning against commodity speculation

Administrator Henderson last week asked industry officials from the cocoa, coffee, and rubber trade to confer on

measures to prevent excessive speculation. The Commodity
Exchange Administration asked all markets under their super-

vision to appoint committees to discuss methods of restraining speculation. According to press statements, officials
are not particularly concerned about the behavior of the
lard futures market but the cottonseed oil and soybean oil
markets are under scrutiny. In the week ended May 16 the total
volume of futures contracts traded, on a daily average basis,
declined but little from the unusually high level of the
previous week (see Chart 4, upper section), while the volume
of trading in cotton (see Chart 4, lower section) showed an
increase.

Business activity shows further rise
The Federal Reserve Board's index of industrial production
(1935-1939 - 100, adjusted) declined in April to 139 from
143 in March. But a substantial rise has occurred in the

first half of May.

Business activity, as measured by the New York Times
weekly index, advanced sharply in the week ended May 10, and

as a result, all of the decline arising from the effects of

the coal strike has been erased. Furthermore, the previous
record high of 124.3 established in the week ended March 29,

has been exceeded by a good margin as the index now stands

at 126.1. (See Chart 5, upper section.) Barron's index of

business activity also rose during the week ended May 10,
although at a much slower pace than the Times index, since
the gain amounted to only 0.6 point.

The principal factor in the upsurge in the Times index

has been the resumption of coal shipments in heavy volume.
As a consequence, freight carloadings have now climbed to
more than 837,000 cars, or only 500 cars below the seasonal

peak reached last fall. (See Chart 5, lower section.) In
view of the fact that the normal seasonal pattern calls for

a further rise in traffic of about 16 percent between now
and the early part of October, the need for additional equip-

ment becomes increasingly apparent.

439
-5At the beginning of last week, the Association of
American Railroads held a meeting in Chicago and approved the
recently recommended program of buying 120,000 new freight

cars for service in 1942 and 150,000 new cars for service in
the following year. Since the announced program calls for
"an increase in ownership" of 270,000 in the 2 years, an additional number will be necessary to cover replacements for cars

retired from service. According to the president of the
Association car retirements might be held down to as little as
30,000 annually during the next two years. This figure contrasts
sharply with the 82,000 cars retired in 1939 and indicates the
intention to keep old cars in service as long as possible.
Currently, freight carloadings are benefitting from the
efforts of the bituminous coal industry to make up for ground
lost in the recent strike. Although soft coal production during the week ended May 10 showed a further rise, it was still
21 percent below the abnormally high figure reached at the end

of March. (See Chart 5, middle section.) Due to the loss in
production arising from the strike, bituminous coal output thus
far this year 18 7 percent below the corresponding period of
1940, despite the higher rate of consumption. The steel industry furthermore has seriously depleted its reserve stocks.
Thus, any further tie-up in production which may eventuate if
current negotiations between the United Mine Workers and the
Southern mine operators break down would be extremely unfortunate.

Automobile production and sales at high level
Although strikes caused automobile production last week
to decline about 5,000 units below the previous week's high

level, the resulting total of 127,000 units was still no less

than 29 percent above output in the corresponding week of 1940.

(See Chart 5, middle section.) Preliminary reports from dealers
during the first 10 days of the current month indicate that
retail sales in that period ran about 50 percent ahead of the
corresponding period of last year. Although automobile production is currently expected to continue at high levels in
the immediate future, estimates of production in the model
year beginning next August continue to be reduced. Thus, as
compared with the originally indicated reduction of 20 percent
in 1942 model production, leading manufacturers are now re-

ported to be expecting a reduction of at least 40 percent.

440

-6Steel operations show further recovery
The steel industry last week made further progress in
regaining ground lost during the recent coal strike, and as

a result, steel ingot production rose 2.4 points to 99.2
percent of capacity. This figure compares with a rate of
99.8 percent the week before the strike began and a low of
94.3 percent at the end of April. (See Chart 5, lower section.) During the current week, steel operations are
scheduled at 99.9 percent of capacity, which 1s 0.1 point
above the previous high.

Operations at the Carnegie-Illinois Steel Corporation's
blast furnaces in the Chicago district have now recovered
so that the company already has a record number of furnaces

in blast in that area and expects to have all of its 23 furnaces in the district in operation very shortly. Beehive
coke 18 again moving to blast furnaces, but a tight supply
situation for this product is bound to exist for some time

to come, since April production is estimated at only 87,000
tons, as compared with 586,000 tons in the previous month.

U. S. Steel Corporation's backlog still rising
Despite the adverse effects of the coal strike, ship-

ments of finished steel by the U. S. Steel Corporation in
April declined only 33,000 net tons or 2 percent from the
previous month's record high total. However, new orders in
April showed a further slight rise to a new peak, with the
result that the company's backlog continued its steep climb
up to a new high level. (See Chart 6.) New orders received
by the U. S. Steel Corporation during the week ended May 8,
the latest available, declined to 158 percent of capacity
from 165 percent (revised) in the previous week. In view
of the existing large order backlogs and the heavy pressure
on the industry for deliveries, the adequacy of existing
production facilities continues to engage attention.

Mr. Leon Henderson, in recent testimony before the House Ways
and Means Committee, indicated the need for a considerable

expansion in the industry, including the building of

10,000,000 more tons of pig iron capacity.

In view of the fact that freight car builders have been

hampered by a lack of steel for cars already ordered and
that a very heavy volume of additional business is impending,
it is reported that the Association of American Railroads,
the American Railway Car Institute, and the OPM have worked

441

-7out a plan for construction of a large number of cars for
which orders may be placed by July 1. It is said that car
builders have been asked to go on a 24-hour basis, and it
is claimed that this rate of operation would enable them
to build 160,000 cars in 9 months, provided priorities are
put
into effect to supply the necessary steel and other
materials.
Estimates as of May 1 submitted to the OPM indicated

that Class I railroads and railroad equipment builders
would require 4,900,000 net tons of finished steel in 1941,
as compared with 3,450,000 net tone in 1940. Car builders
were expected to need nearly 1,500,000 net tons of steel
in 1941, of which only 46 percent actually was on order.
In connection with the estimated requirement of steel in

1941 mentioned above, the Railway Age points out that this
figure may understate requirements, since consumption of
finished steel by the railroads and equipment manufacturers
was actually somewhat higher in 1929 and in 1926.
New orders continue very high
Our new orders index for the week ended May 10 rose to
213.1 from 199.8 in the preceding week largely because of

increased orders for textiles. The steel component declined
somewhat to 81.1 from 84.6 in the previous week. (See Chart 7.)

MOVEMENT OF BASIC COMMODITY PRICES

Domestic and Imported
AUGUST 1939-100

PER
PER

PER

1

CENT

PER

CENT CENT

Weekly Average

CENT

II

Daily
145

145

140

140

140

140

// Imported
Commodities

135

130

130

135

// Imported
Commodities

130

130
120

120

125

125

17 Domestic
Commodities

110

110

17 Domestic
Commodities

120

120

115
17

24

21

10

D

J

N

F

o

M

A

M

J

S

A

J

J

F

J

1940

FEB.

1941

I

M

IS

9

A

22

22

29

5

M

IS

.

100

115

26

3

100

APR

MAR.

MAY

1941

Percentage Change for Individual Commodities. August 1940 Low to May 9 and to May 16. 1941
PER

PER

CENT

CENT

II Imported Commodities

Tellow 1286%

17 Domestic Commodities

+120

+120

*Cottonseed Oil 98.1X

+100

Lard 82/X
Print Cloth 71.2 X

*80

+100

Cocoo 92.1 %
"Burlap 85.0%

Shellac 690%

+80

"Hides 672 X

Wheat 446%
Hogs 42.0%
Barley 35.3%

Coffee 6/2%
+60

Wool 54.8%

+40

Flaxseed 319%
Sugar 295%

Butter 34.0%

+60

Cotton 32.5%
Rosin 23.8%

Lead 232X

+40

Zinc 15.1%

Rubber 292%

Corn 13.1 %

Copper 11.8 x

Silk 149%

+20

Steers 10.0%

+20

Tin 35%

Steel Scrap.dom. 8.7 %
0

Aug Low

May 9 May 16

0

Steel Scrap.exp 2.7 X

May 9 May 16

Aug. Low
P-199 25

PRICES OF SELECTED COMMODITIES
AFFECTED BY 1941 FARM PROGRAM
Percentage Change Feb. 28, 1941 to Apr. 25 and to May 16. 1941
PER

CENT

Directly Affected
60

-LARD 49.60
50

40

30

COTTON 23.60
BUTTER 18.3%

CORN 17.9
-RICE 17.1%
Hogs 16.6%

20

WHEAT 16.7%
10

0

-10

APR.25

FEB.28

MAY 16

PER

CENT

COCONUT OIL 93.3%

Indirectly Affected
90

80

70

COTTONSEED OIL 63.60
60

-TALLOW 55.9%

50

PRINT CLOTH 38.80

40

30

20

e-FLOUR 14.8%
10

0

STEERS -4.3%

-10

FEB.28

-.---

Office of the Secretary . the Treasury

APR.25

MAY 16

P - 216

443
Chart 2

COMMODITY PRICES AND COST OF LIVING
1926-100

PER

CENT

PER

Monthly

CENT

90

90

88
88

86
86

Cost of Living. N.I.C.B.

84

84

82
82

80
80

78

78

889 Commodities, B.L.S.

76

76

74

74

72

72

1935

1940

1939

1938

1937

1936

1941

PER

CENT

PER

CENT

Weekly
88

88

84
84

889 Commodities, B.L.S.
80
80

76
76

72
72

28 Basic Commodities, B.L.S."

68

68

64

64

60

60

56
56

M

D

N

J

J

M
A

A

s

F

J

D

N

o

S

A

1939

M

J

52

o

1941

AoD

52

1940

444

"30 Commodities Prior to January 1940
P-196
level

Chart 3

VOLUME OF TRADING AND FUTURES PRICES

CONTRACTS

PERCENT

THOUSANDS

(PRICES)

Sales of Futures Contracts and
Dow Jones Index of Futures Prices
68

20

60
16

PRICES

1924-26 100

52

12

NUMBER OF CONTRACTS

DAILY AVERAGE
44
8

0

MM

36

28
D

N

1941

940

CONTRACTS
THOUSANDS

CONTRACTS
THOUSANDS

Volume of Trading in Grains, Cotton, and Other Commodities
NUMBER OF CONTRACTS, DAILY AVERAGE
14

14

12

12

10

10

6
8

W

GRAINS

6
6
4

4

COTTON

OTHER

2

2
0

0

1940

---

1941
BEGINNING JANUARY 1941 INCLUDES SOYBEANS

445

- of the Secretary of the Treasury
212

Chart 4

SELECTED BUSINESS INDICES
BUSINESS ACTIVITY
PER

Seasonally Adjusted

CENT

Est Normal 100

130
44

120
40

110
39

100

90

N Times
80

JAN

MAR

MAY

BITUMINOUS COAL PRODUCTION

SHORT TONS

JULY

AUTOMOBILE PRODUCTION
U.S. and Canada

CARS

THOUSANDS

MILLIONS

NOV.

SEPT.

2.4

150

2.0

125

'41

4

40

39

X
100

1.6

40
75

1.2

-39
8

50

4

25

are Cool Comm
MAR

Werd's fee
MAY

0

0

JAN

JULY

SEPT

NOV

JAN

FREIGHT CAR LOADINGS
CARS

MAY

JULY

SEPT.

NOV.

STEEL INGOT PRODUCTION
Per Cent of Capacity

PER

Total

THOUSANDS

MAR

CENT

900

40.

100

41

800
40
'4

80

700

29

39
60

600

40

500

Am Ry Agan
400

JAN.

MAR

Amer and # for
MAY

JULY

SEPT

NOV.

20

JAN

MAR

MAY

JULY

SEPT.

NOV

446
Office of the Secretary of the Treasury
Helder of Research - Statistics

C-387

Chart 5

Chart 6
CONFIDENTIAL

447
REPORTED NEW ORDERS, SHIPMENTS, AND INDICATED
UNFILLED ORDERS OF THE U.S. STEEL CORPORATION
NET TONS

NCT TONS

THOUSANDS

THOUSANDS

2400

2400

2000

2000

REPORTED NEW ORDERS
1600

1600

1200

1200

800

800

REPORTED SHIPMENTS
400

400

0

1938

1939

1940

1941

0

NET TOMS
NET TONS

MILLIONS

MILLIONS

6

6

5

5
4
4

3
3

INDICATED UNFILLED ORDERS
2
2

1

1
0

1938

0

Office of the Secretary of the Treasury

Division of - - -

1939

1940

1941

1 - 133 - A

INDEXES OF NEW ORDERS
Combined Index of New Orders and Selected Component

PERCENTAGE

PERCENTAGE

POINTS

POINTS

220

220

210

210

Total (combined Index)
1006 100
200

200

190
190

180
180

170
170

160
160

150
150

140
140

130
130

120
120

110

110

100
100

90

90

80

Total excluding Steel and Textiles

80

70

70

60

60

50

50

40

40

Steel Ordere

30

30

20

20

10

Textile Orders
10

11
0
A

1939

---

the Secretary the Treasury

1940
1 - 85 - D

449
TREASURY DEPARTMENT
INTER OFFICE COMMUNICATION

DATE May 19, 1941
TO

FROM

Secretary Morgenthau
1 Mr. Haaa

HA

Work Projects Administration employment decreased from

1,560,000 persons during the week ended April 30, 1941 to
1,519,000 during the week ended May 7, 1941.

Attachments

450
WORK PROJECTS ADMINISTRATION

Number of Workers Employed - Weekly

United States

Week ending
1940-41

October 2
October 9
October 16
October 23
October 30

Number of Workers

(In thousands)
1,747
1,763
1,768

1,776
1,779

November 6
November 13
November 20
November 27

1,783
1,786
1,807

December 4
December 11
December 18
December 25

1,832
1,855
1,872
1,878

January 1
January 8
January 15
January 22
January 29

1,880
1,887
1,894

February 5
February 12
February 19
February 26

1,892

March 5
March 12
March 19
March 26

1,806
1,764
1,736

April 2
April 9
April 16

1,662
1,634

April 23
April 30

1,586
1,560

May 7

1,519

Source: Work Projects Administration

1,822

1,895
1,895
1,893

1,885
1,867

1,708

1,607

451
WORK PROJECTS ADMINISTRATION

Number of Workers Employed - Monthly
United States

1938

July
August

September
October
November
December

Number of Workers

(In thousands)
3,053
3,171

3,228
3,346
3,287
3,094

1939

January
February

March

April
May

June

July
August
September
October
November
December
1940

January

February

March

April

May

June

July
August
September

October

November
December
1941

2,986
3,043
2,980
2,751
2,600
2,551

2,200
1,842
1,790

1,902
2,024
2,152

2,266
2,324
2,288
2,092
1,926
1,665
1,701
1,691
1,704
1,779
1,821
1,878

January
February

1,895
1,867
1,708

April

1,560

March

Source: Work Projects Administration

Monthly figures are weekly figures for the latest week of
the month.

They include certified and noncertified workers.

452

WORK PROJECTS ADMINISTRATION
Number of Workers Employed
United States
Monthly W.P.A. Employment

Weekly V.P.A. Employment

1940

1942

1941

WILLIONS WILLIONS T - MAY and MAY, MAY was ACCL NOV. WITH

MORALES

23

WORKERS WORKERS
2.7

3.2

2.4

2.6
1.2

2.5

2.5

2.4

in

2.8
2.8

2.3
2.3

2.2
2.2

2.4
2.4
2.1
2.1

2.0
2.0

2.0

2.0 1.9

1.9

1.8
1.8

1.7

1.6

1.7

1.6

1.4
1.6

1.5
1.5

1.2
1.2
1,4

1.4

1.3
1.3

.0

1.2

1.2

1.1
1.1

1.9
.4

1.0

.s

.9

0

1935 1936

1937

1938

1939

1940

1941

....
0

..

JSA

.0

JAN.

'42

MAR.

MAY

JULY

1940

SEPT.

NOV.

JAN

MAR.

MAY

JAY

1541

SEPT.

NOV.

-

and
MAR.

1942

SOURCE: WORK PROJECTS ADMINISTRATION

---

Office of the Secretary of the Treasury

2.221-C

.b

453
TREASURY DEPARTMENT
INTER-OFFICE COMMUNICATION

DATE May 19, 1941
TO

FROM

Secretary Morgenth
Mr. Cochran

CONFIDENTIA .

Registered sterling transactions of the reporting banks were as follows:
Sold to commercial concerns
Purchased from commercial concerns

£21,000
£19,000

Open market sterling was again quoted at 4.03-1/4. Transactions of the
reporting banks were as follows:
Sold to commercial concerns

& 5,000

Purchased from commercial concerns

£10,000

The Canadian dollar weakened slightly to close at 12-7/88 discount, as
compared with 12-11/16% on Saturday,

In New York, closing quotations for the foreign currencies listed below

were as follows:

Swiss franc

.2320-1/2

Swedish krona
Reichamark
Lira

.2385
.4005
.0505
.2380
.0505
.2070

Argentine peso (free)

Brazilian milreis (free)
Mexican peso
Cuban peso

2-7/16% discount

In Shanghai, the yuan in terms of our currency remained at 5-11/324 and
sterling was also unchanged at 3.90-7/8.
There were no gold transactions consummated by us today.
No new gold engagements were reported.

In London, a price of 23-7/16d was fixed for spot silver, off 1/16d. The
forward quotation was also 23-7/16d, unchanged. The U.S. equivalent of this

price is 42.56

The Treasury's purchase price for foreign silver was unchanged at 35$.
Handy and Harman's settlement price for foreign silver was also unchanged at 34-3/4*

454
-2-

We made one purchase of silver amounting to 75,000 ounces under the

Silver Purchase Act. This consisted of new production from various foreign
countries, and was bought for forward delivery.
The Federal Reserve Bank's report of May 14, listing deposits of banks
in Asia with the New York agencies of Japanese banks, showed that such deposits
totaled $75,969,000. an increase of $219,000 since May 7. Most of the change in
deposits took place on the books of the Yokohama Specie Bank's New York agency.

The latter's principal dollar liabilities to and dollar claims on Japanese banks
in Asia stood as follows on May 14:

Change from
May 14

Liabilities: Deposits for Japan and Manchuria
Deposits for China
: U.S.Treas.Bills, comm. paper, etc
: Loans
:

Claims

Other - mainly Jap. import bills

May 7

$51,235,000
17,341,000
25,427,000

+$ 289,000

$41,026,000
7.531,000

+$ 746,000

- 473,000
+ 478,000
+ 319,000

CONFIDENTIAL

455
BRITISH EMBASSY,
WASHINGTON, D.C.

Personal and Secret
May 19th, 1941.

Dear Mr. Secretary,

I enclose herein for your
personal and secret information copies

of the two latest reports received from
London on the military situation.
Believe me,

Dear Mr. Secretary,

Very sincerely yours,

Halifex

The Honourable

Henry Morgenthau, Jr.,

United States Treasury,
Washington, D. C.

456

Telegram from London dated May 16th.
1.

Naval. 278 survivors from Ame Salopian have been

picked up.
2.

Minesweeper Puriri lost sweeping minefield laid

June 1940 in Hauraki Gulf, North Igland, Now Zealand.
3.

Sues Canal closed Port Said to Tineh and Lake

Timsah to Great Bitter Lake. One mine exploded by aircraft
on 12th.
4.

Night of 13th/14th, Gnat bombarded Gazala.

5.

P.M. 15th, bombers attacked convoy of 5 merchant

ships near Heligoland. 3 ships 5,000, 4,000, and 1,600
tons left burning considered total losses. 2 MK 109's
attacked, 1 shot down, 1 damaged. We lost 1 Blehheim.

Royal Air Force. Daylight 16th: fighters carried
out offensive patrols. 1 troop carrier destroyed over Northern

6.

France, another damaged on the ground; 1 bomber shot down
into the sea and one ME 109 probably destroyed and another
damaged.
7.

Night of 15th/16th. 146 aircraft sant to attack

Hanover (102) Berlin (5 Stirlings and 8 Manchesters) others to

channel ports to attack shipping and to lay mines. Four
bombers missing including 1 Manchester.

Night of 13th/14th. Wellingtons bombed two aerodromes in Rhodes; also Beughazi. Following night Royal Air

8.

Force raided two aerodromes in Cyrenecia and one south of

Alhhone. Our aircraft have attacked Iraqian aerodromes; three
enemy aircraft damaged on the ground at Erbil and successful
attacks made on Mosul station and enemy communications.
9.

German Air Force, United Kingdom. Night of 16th/17th.

About 59 enemy aircraft operating of which 32 came inland.
10.
14th. 25 dive bombers attacked Tobruk without
results/

457

-2-

results; several enemy aircraft damaged by anti-aircraft

fire.
Malta. Heavily attacked nights of 13th/14th and
14th/15th also by fighters on 14th and 15th. Luga aerodromes
About 7 of our aircraft damaged on the ground
objective.

11.

and three Hurricanes shot down.
12.

Crate. Harbour at Suda Bay and two aarodromes

attacked by enemy aircraft on 13th and 14th without serious
damage. 8 enemy aircraft shot down, 1 damaged.

458

Telegram from London dated May 17th.

1. Naval. During transport of expeditionary forces to Greece
marchant shipping lost 36,000 tons, damaged 6,000 tone. During
evecuation of Greece 147,000 tone lost, 57,000 tons damaged.
2.

Imports into Great Britain by ships in convoy during

week ending May 10th, 891,156 tons compared with average

of 695,048 tons for past ten weeks.
3.

to

Apart from Mediterranean, shipping loanes have tended

show improvement in April. For first time losses by air

attack have exceeded those by U-boat largely due to heavy

casualties in the Maditerranean.
4.

A.M. 15th. Harbour patrol vessel shot down an
enemy aircraft off Humber.

5.

Military, Iraq. By morning of the 15th our

advance troops from Palestine were reported 70 miles from
Rutba.
6.

Syria. French troops especially vicinity of aero-

dromes reported standing to expectation of imminent attack

by British.
7.
Iraq. Tribes along Tigrie Euphrates also
tribes Northern Iraq reported solidly against Rashid Ali.
8.
Royal Air Force. 16th. Eight Blenheims sent to
attack shipping, sank 2,500 ton merchant vessel which had
been Norwegian. One missing.

Night of 16th/17th. Main operations: 93 aircraft
sent to Cologne and 22 to attack shipping. Out of total of

9.

of 135, one missing.
10.

Syria. 15th. Eight Blenheims escorted by two

Tomahawks attacked aerodromes at Damascus, Rayak and Palmyre.

At least 16 German aircraft were seen, one was burnt. Two

French fighters followed our aircraft to Palmyra but did not
attack.
11.

459

-211.

German Aqr Force. 16th. Continuous small fighter

sweeps carried out over Kent. Two Messerschmi dts 109 shot down

by aerodrome defences. Our fighters destroyed five enemy

fighters. We lost one Spitfire, pilot safe.
12.

Night of 16th/17th. About 150 enemy aircraft came

over, 120 attacked Midlands, 20 were sea mining 100 H.E.
bombs were dropped on a Cornish aerodrome. Night fighters

destroyed 2 enemy aircraft. We lost one Beaufighter.
13.
Iraq. 16th. Three Heinkel bombers attacked
Habbaniya destroying engine repair section and causing other
damage. One was damaged by fighters, we lost one Gladiator

destroyed and another damaged. One training type aircraft
also destroyed by Messerschmidt. 110's.

460
CONFIDENTIAL

MILITARY INTELLIGENCE DIVISION

TENTATIVE LESSONS BULLETIN

WAR DEPARTMENT

No. 106
G-2/2657-235

Washington, May 19, 1941

NOTICE

The information contained in this series of bulletins
will be restricted to items from official sources which are
reasonably confirmed. The lessons necessarily are tentative
and in no sense mature studies.
This document is being given an approved distribution,

and no additional copies are available in the Military Intelligence Division. For provisions governing its reproduction,
see Letter TAG 350.05 (9-19-40) M-B-M.

BRITISH NOTES ON COLLECTION OF INFORMATION IN BATTLE

SOURCE

These notes were prepared by the British War Office

shortly after the fall of France.
CONTENTS

1. REPORTS OF ENEMY ACTION AND MOVEMENTS
2. SITUATION TELEGRAMS AND INTELLIGENCE SUMMARIES
3. COOPERATION BETWEEN INTELLIGENCE AND OTHER STAFF BRANCHES

4. USE OF MOTOR CONTACT OFFICERS
5. DUTIES AND EMPLOYMENT OF INTELLIGENCE OFFICERS

6. ORGANIZATION OF INTELLIGENCE OFFICES
7. ORGANIZATION FOR EVACUATION AND EXAMINATION OF PRISONERS

8. SECURITY
9. SUMMARY
CONFIDENTIAL

-1-

461
CONFIDENTIAL

BRITISH NOTES ON COLLECTION OF INFORMATION IN BATTLE

1.

REPORTS OF ENEMY ACTION AND MOVEMENTS

A report is almost useless unless it shows both time

and place. A shelling report is of little value unless, in addition,
it embodies an attempt to estimate caliber of shells and, roughly,
the direction from which they were fired.

Reports must give in precise detail what has been actually

seen, or they will inevitably give rise to rumor. It is wrong, for

instance, to report merely "Tanks at X" when four or five have been
seen in that locality. The exact number should be given; otherwise
X is certain to hold a complete armored division before the report
has gone far.

Nothing lends itself so easily to rumor as the threat of
parachute troops. Bursting antiaircraft shells can easily be reported as parachutists. False reports of parachute landings may
cause serious disorganization and waste of effort. Reports on
parachute operations should not be forwarded unless they come from

reliable informants who can be certain that they actually saw a man
attached to a parachute, and the man landing or after landing.
The battalion intelligence section must remain one of the
main sources of battle information. Every effort should be made to
equip it with instruments necessary for good observation. It may

frequently be possible for the battalion intelligence section to
use the telescopes allotted to the battalion signal section.
2. SITUATION TELEGRAMS AND INTELLIGENCE SUMMARIES

Situation telegrams sent at stated hours are a useful
check on the situation for higher formations. These telegrams
must not, however, cause any delay in transmission of important
items of information, which must be sent on as they arrive. A

combined 0 and I* telegram saves congestion of communications and
acts as a check on any divergences between 0 and I. Higher formations should lay down a form on which situation telegrams and intelligence summaries can be based.

Separate reports for enemy air activity are impracticable
in battle; such activity should be treated and reported in the same
way as any other form of enemy activity.
*0, standing for "Operations," corresponds to the American G-3 or S-3;
I, standing for "Intelligence," corresponds to the American G-2
or S-2.

CONFIDENTIAL

-2-

462
CONFIDENTIAL

Intelligence officers of lower formations must realize
that they are primarily concerned with enemy operations and activity
only on their own front and immediate flanks. On the other hand,

however difficult communications may be, higher formations should

attempt to give their subordinates a picture of the general situation at least once every twenty-four hours. Failure to do this
may result in the formulation of decisions based on faulty premises
in lower formations.
This should not be taken to mean that a full dress daily
intelligence summary is essential. Short reports telegraphed or

sent by liaison officers will frequently be the only practicable
means of distributing information in time for it to be of value.

3. COOPERATION BETHEEN INTELLIGENCE AND OTHER STAFF BRANCHES

There must be the very closest liaison between 0 and I.

In principle, establishment of separate 0 and I offices should be
avoided; if this is unavoidable, the senior I officer should be in
the 0 office.
Intelligence staffs should also make a point of establish-

ing close contact with the artillery and engineer staffs. Artillery

OP's have exceptional opportunities for observing enemy movements

and activity, and information of great importance and accuracy will
frequently be obtained through artillery channels. Under modern
conditions, information supplied from engineer sources may be of
the utmost value to the General Staff.
4.

USE OF MOTOR CONTACT OFFICERS*

Motor contact officers are provided primarily for the
use of the operations staff; they should, however, work for the
intelligence staff as well. On leaving or returning to his headquarters, a motor contact officer should invariably visit the I
as well as the 0 staff to find out their requirements or give them
any information obtained.

*The following is from the report of an American official observer

in London in August, 1940:

"Motor contact officers are not liaison officers in the

young, physically active, and dependable
ordinary sense, but
men of sufficient education and background to complete successfully

an intensive four-week staff course. In this course they absorb

enough knowledge of orders, map reading, and organization to be able

to deliver messages, military information, and orders intelligently.
These officers have been of value in facilitating exchange of information; each of their missions has been, in effect, an officer
patrol."
CONFIDENTIAL

-3-

463
CONFIDENTIAL

5.

DUTIES AND EMPLOYMENT OF INTELLIGENCE OFFICERS

The presence of motor contact officers does not absolve

intelligence officers from the duty of going forward to get information, and intelligence officers of all grades must be pre-

pared at any time to use motorcycles for obtaining important information which does not come in through the usual channels. This

applies particularly to intelligence officers of lower formations,

in which commanders will often be too occupied with the situation
at the moment to send back frequent reports.

In higher formations, over-specialization of intelligence
officers for particular duties should be avoided. The I staff
forms part of the General Staff, and intelligence officers must
be prepared to undertake a wide variety of tasks.
On the other hand, the tendency, sometimes evident in

lower formations and units, to use the intelligence officer as an
odd job man should be avoided. The collection and transmission

of intelligence is the primary task of the intelligence officer,
and, if he is taken for other duties, intelligence as a whole is
certain to suffer.
6.

ORGANIZATION OF INTELLIGENCE OFFICES

During periods of static warfare, there is always a
tendency towards over-elaboration in maintenance of card indices
and a large number of maps. This procedure is impracticable in
mobile warfare, and any attempt to maintain such records and an

elaborate filing system will almost inevitably break down. I staffs

should train so as to be able to work with the minimum number of
maps and few documents, including a battle message board and the

intelligence log; the latter is always an essential.
7.

ORGANIZATION FOR EVACUATION AND EXAMINATION OF PRISONERS

The more mobile operations become, the greater will be

the difficulty and delay in getting prisoners to the rear for detailed interrogation. Greater importance, therefore, is attached
to preliminary interrogation of prisoners by divisions for the
purpose of establishing identifications and obtaining information

of immediate tactical importance. Then large numbers of prisoners
are being taken, higher formations must be prepared to send inter-

rogators forward for assisting divisional intelligence officers.

Important prisoners such as officers and specialists,
and deserters must be interrogated at the earliest possible moment,
and transport should be made available for their evacuation if
possible. Other prisoners will be evacuated by march route.
CONFIDENTIAL

464
CONFIDENTIAL

Escorts should be reduced to a minimum through provision of bicycles, motorcycles, and automatic weapons where possible.
8. SECURITY

Instructions against the spreading of rumors cannot be
too stringent or repeated too often. One of the greatest dangers
in mobile warfare is the flood of rumors concerning the presence
of the enemy in all directions. All ranks must be continuously
reminded that, when they are passing on information of whose

reliability they are not certain, this fact must be clearly stated.
Large numbers of suspects brought to unit or brigade
headquarters may present a problem with which intelligence officers
at these headquarters have neither the organization nor the quali-

fications to deal. Personnel of field security sections should be
sent forward so as to be available to assist in such situations.
9. SUMMARY

a. Keep reports short, but make sure that they are
accurate and precise and that they give the necessary details as
regards time and place.

b. Keep in closest possible touch with the o, artillery,
and engineer staffs.

C. Make full use of motor contact officers, both to
take information forward and' to bring situation reports back.

d. Do not wait for information; go out and get it. For
this purpose a motorcycle is the best means of transport.
e. Do not be academic, and never pigeon-hole information;
it will always be of use to someone.

f. Do not allow an intelligence office to become overelaborate. Keep methods and equipment simple and ensure that the

whole organization is mobile.

CONFIDENTIAL

-5-

465
RESTRICTED

0-2/2657-220; No. 395

M.I.D., W.D.

12:00 M., May 19, 1941.

SITUATION REPORT

I. Western Theater.

Air: German. Limited activity over Great Britain.
British. Continued attacks on the Invasion Coast
on the 17th and 18th. Last night raids were made on Kiel and
Emden. Scale of effort was below normal on both days.
II. Mediterranean and African Theaters.
Ground: North Africa. There were attacks and counterattacks at Tobruk by both sides. In the Sollum sector there was

patrol activity.

East Africa, The Italian Force at Amba Alagi,
commanded by the Duke of Aosta has surrendered. This removes one

of the main centers of resistance in East Africa. The Italians

are still holding out in the Gondar and Jimma regions, northwest
and south of Addis Ababa respectively.
The British have occupied Gibissire (Giabassire)
in southern Abyssinia (Ethiopia) and the Port of Dante in northeast
Italian Somaliland.

Air: No reports of important activity.
III. Middle Eastern Theater.
Iraq: Limited ground activity. Iraqi ground forces appear
to be organizing in the Mosul area. Some guerilla fighting seems to
be developing in the Fort Rutbah area on the oil pipe line. German
aviation is becoming increasingly active.
Syria: No confirmation of reported ground encounters.
The British are continuing their bombardment of Syrian airdromes.

RESTRICTED

466

CONFIDENTIAL
Paraphrase of Code Cablegram

Received at the Mar Department
at 23:37, May 19, 1941.

Bucharest, filed 17:50, May 19, 1941.

1. Sixty-two German trucks of the largest sise crossed
the Danube southward over the pentoon bridge at Giurgin on May 17th.
2. The Rumanian ships CARMEN SILVA and ZEOUL manned by

Grous of mixed nationality sailed empty from Constantsa for Burgas,

apparently with the purpose of loading troops at the latter port.
Two other Rumanian ships, the ECATERINA and MANTRE sailed from

Constants for the Pirasus on May 17th. These latter ships carried
eargoes of gasoline and munitions.
3. The Turkish schooner HUNTAKERIN which has been anchored

off Constantsa since April 16th is loading 250 tons of gasoline in
drum and is awaiting orders to sail for Rhodes.
RATAY

Distribution:
Secretary of War
State Department

Secretary of Treasury
Under Secretary of War

Chief of Staff
Assistant Chief of Staff, G-2

War Plans Division

Office of Naval Intelligence

CONFIDENTIAL

467

CONFIDENTIAL
Paraphrase of Code Cablegram

Received at the War Department
at 11:56, May 19, 1941

Budapest, filed May 19, 1941.

1. The only train travel out of Zagreb is to Belgrade
and to Sneak near Fisse. In general all bridges in Yugoslavia
are destroyed and in the area occupied by Hungary 76 bridges are
down.

2. I do not believe a Russo-German break will take

place. As of possible significance a Pole of unknown veracity
reports that on May 20th the German antiaircraft defense system
for occupied Poland was completed.
PARTRIDGE

Distributions
Secretary of War
State Department

Secretary of Treasury

Under Secretary of War

Chief of Staff
Assistant Chief of Staff, G-2
War Plans Division

Office of Naval Intelligence

CONFIDENTIAL

CONFIDENTIAL
Passphanes of Date
Received as the New

468

riment

as 22156, May 4, 1941.

Sefts, filed May 4, 1942.

So far as I - find our, - foress accured central of the
of Thoses and Lenses and the Salf of Gerinth w a preliminary

basing, after which they leased with well beats and also with rafts,

with outbused noters attached. As Lenses and Theses, weeps
were employed. a - other talente there are so Breek weeps. During

March wall motor beats - person bolliging material was - passing
through the Bulgerion capital.
JANWIN

Distributions
Secretary of Your
State Department

Secretary of Treasury

Univer Secretary of Year

chief of Staff
Assistant Ohiof of Staff, as
New Please Division

office of Reval Intelligence

CONFIDENTIAL

CONFIDENTIAL

469

Jerephrese of Code Cablegram

Received at the War Department
at 9:17, May 19, 1941.

Lesson, filed 5100, May 19, 1941.

1. British Air Activity over the Sentiment.
2. Highs of May 17-18. Cologes was attached w 95 British
bombers and Boulegue by 15, and is contacted operations over Bottorism,

Osteale and French and Delgim airfields. The Cenetal Commond partners

missions against Willessent and Bioppe.
A.

Right of My 16-17. One Instrud thirty-five British bembers

took part in the operations against Commany.

Activity - Britain,

2.

a. Right of My 18-19. The only Common air activity we - a
stainum seals in dropping miss in the - off Beeon and in the Natural.

& Daylight of May 18-19. - air patrels over Britaia were
- a statement seals. only two please were observed on -

3. 2. British Air I - Centiment.
(1) Hight of May 17-18. the bonber was abot down is
operations over Fresse and Belgium.

(2) Right of the 16-17. One bember was abot down in large
seals suide over

b. I Leases, British States.
(1) Eight of My 18-19. In stating attachs off the I
conct - plano created on above from - - cause.
4.

British Ate Activity middle That States.

a

Daylight, May 18.

(1) Screen. Three Comman occupied airfields, Malasi, Menidi,
and Arges were attached.

CONFIDENTIAL

CONFIDENTIAL

470

(2) Micro Bengasi was again attached. Fighter againstress

caused the destruction of w hate supply vehicles moving east - the State

Santia and Geogree reade and - - additional. A hange - was as on fire and destruyed in the visinity of Abe Ame.

(5) Inc. - stefield as and the - field
as Degisted were become

(4) Sezia. Free I is Jalaskine Brittah please bested

- atrement - the - as Palagen.

5. - Ate made Best Shaten.
& Baylight, my M. member - busibed w 30 - business. right please drepped miss in the less Small. Show
we no report received of - six operations in Item or
6.

Service ARE I mass Sea States.

& my 10. three - please - of eight - also
& in - stating attestes - the Dass keal.
& systight, My 18. Sexia. the please were set - five destroyed in British assests on Polayse airfield and two others I
7.

During the week beginning my 3 importe earried w ships in

- ware in the neighborhood of 500,000 tess greater than the for the none weeking team vester. with the esception of the lessee of abage w air bubing were greater then

in the month of Agril for the first time of the war. Shipping lessee in

the I were heavy on account of the commutions
free the Ballams.

&

CONFIDENTIAL

CONFIDENTIAL

471

a. Public opinion of the Bankish withou in Song - of the
actives along the Deplaration - Signte - is united against Brobid ALL.

- of

Oblet of Staff

of -

Assistant Shiet of statt, as
the Please

- of Moral Intelligence
as
Ave Sange

CONFIDENTIAL

CONFIDENTIAL

472

Paraphrase of Code Cablegram
Received at the War Department

at 23:53, May 19, 1941.

Sefia, filed May 19, 1941.
With regard to your telegram No. 20: A source regarded as

fairly trustworthy asserts that the Dambe from Budapest as far as
Belgrade has been opened to transportation. The Communications
Department of the Bulgarian Government reports that the Danube is

open to freighters from the Black Sea to Belgrade. The following

rail transport routes are open: Sefia to Belgrade; Belgrade to

Zagreb; Lubljana to Trieste. I an informed that traffic is halted
between Creb (Zagrebt) and Lubljana. The evidence of gemzine sabetage

conducted against the railroads is very slight. At Novisad, a bridge
which had been half destroyed is now being repaired. All Bulgarian
reilroad service is hindered by German troops and materials moving
to northward.
JADWIN

Distribution:
Secretary of War
State Department

Secretary of Treasury
Under Secretary of Wer

Chief of Staff
Assistant Chief of Staff, 0-2

War Plans Division

Office of Naval Intelligence

NFIDENTIAL