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DIART

Boak 368

January 15-17,1941 -

-BBook Page
Bank Holding Company Legislation
O'Manualy (Chairman, Temporary National Economic

Committee) consulted about possible support

for bill - 1/15/41

348

FIR suggests that Treasury. Federal Deposit
Insurance Corporation, Comptroller of Currency.
and Federal Reserve Board cooperate - 1/16/41..

79

246

Belgium

See Var Conditions: Gold (France - Dekar and Eayes)

-cCanada

See War Conditions
Censorship

See Var Conditions

China

See War Conditions: China; Export Control
Caba

See Var Conditions: Airplanes
Carrie, Lauchlin 3.
See Yar Conditions: China

-DDakar

See Mar Conditions: Gold (France)

-3Economic Defense Board

See Mar Conditions

-7Fats; Oils
See Mar Conditions: Export Control
Federal Barean of Investigation
Times accordante - 1/15/41. etc.
Financing, Government
Open Market Committee meeting - 1/16/41

Defense Savings Bonds, United States: Possible
offerings (Endley memorandum) 1/16/41
Bur. Odegard, Knim, Foley, and Selvars discuss
newspaper clipping analysis set-up - 1/17/41.

France

See Mar Conditions: Airplanes; Gold

French Indo-China

See Bar Conditions: Expert Control

99,269.
270,349
133
260
306

-G.
Book Page
Germany

See Var Conditions: Foreign Funds Control
Gold

See War Conditions: France (Martinique)

-IHungary

See War Conditions: Foreign Funds Control

-IIndo-China, French

See War Conditions: Export Control

Italy

See War Conditions: Foreign Funds Control

-JJapan

See Var Conditions: Foreign Funds Control
Johnson, Hugh S. (General)
See War Conditions: Lend-Lease Legislation

-KKayes

See War Conditions: Gold (France)

-LLatin America
New joint board to handle purchases set up by
War and Navy Departments; to cooperate with

State Department directly and omit Treasury -

1/16/41

348

122

a) McReynolds to be consulted
Mexico:

Rodrigo, Ensabio: Opens account with Layyers
Trust Company: Federal "Reserve Bank of

New York reports suspicions of - 1/16/41

Lend-Lease Legislation
See War Conditions
Liaison Committee
See War Conditions

171

-IBook Page
SS

Beaching off Florida discussed at 9:30 morting -

1/15/41
Martinique

363

100

See Mar Conditions: Airplanes; Gold (France)
Mexico

See Narcotics (Opium)
See also Latin America
Marging. Francis P. (Former Governor, Year Tempatire)

FIRST asked by HWJ if he is being considered for
Federal appointment and if so should income taxes
be checked - 1/15/41

a) FIR's ansver calling attention to mitual
dislike of Marphy and Sullivan - 1/17/41
b) See Merry-Go-Round story - situation after

90

322

he went to Defense Commission in charge of
shoe purchases for army: Book 349. page 256

-3Tarentics

Opian in Mexico: Mallace asked about situation
upon return - 1/16/41

113

-0Oils: Fate
See Mar Conditions: Export Control

-PPersonnel, Division of

Graves and Thompson still waiting to see BirLSD

1/15/41

Palant

For investigation and action taken, see Book 353

See Mar Conditions: Gold (France - Date: amt Eayes)
---Beed, Stanley (Justice, Supreme Court)
Congratulates BWJr on Lend-Lease testimony - 1/17/42

Research and Statistics, Division of

Report of projects during December 1940,

Revenue Revision

Suggested program (Sallivan remorandum) transmitted

to FIR - 1/16/41
Indrige. Insabio

See Latin America: Mexico

202

-s-

Book Page

Shipping

See Mar Conditions

Silver
See Mar Conditions
Spain

See War Conditions

Steel

See Mar Conditions

See Mar Conditions: Foreign Funds Control
Switzerland
See Mar Conditions: Foreign Funds Control

--Taxation
See Revenue Revision

-UI.E.S.R.
See Mar Conditions: Foreign Funds Control
United Kingdom

See Mar Conditions: Military Planning

-VNet Conditions
Airplanes:
Cube-Martinique deal: Young reports on status 1/17/41

348

317

Danada:

Dominion-Provincial Financial Relations: Breakdown
of Ottava conference reported - 1/16/41

207

Densorship:

Knox' press release and Treasury comment thereon 1/15/41

213

China:

Durrie (Lenchlin B.) discusses with HKJr proposed

trip - 1/16/41

Proposed stabilization agreement discussed by Soong
and Cochran - 1/17/41

177
343

- 1 - (Continued)

Book Page

Mar Conditions (Continued)
Economic Defense Board:

Meeting in Attorney General's office; present:
representatives of Justice, together with
Berle, Henderson, Ginsberg, and Bernstein:

348

Foley memorandum - 1/15/41

96

a) Draft of Executive Order - 1/18/41:

See Book 349, pages 54 and 358 (1/21/41):
and Book 350. page 220 - 1/23/41
HMJr-Alsop conversation and eventual "good" article
discussed at 9:30 meeting - 1/21/41: Book 349,
page 109

a) HiJr congratulates Alsop: Book 349. page 300
Conference in Berle's office - 1/24/41: Book 350,
page 258

Exchange market resume' - 1/15/41, etc.
Export Control:
Shipments to French Indo-China and Chinese ports

listed for Hull - 1/15/41

100,265,350

82

Fats; Oils: Gaston and Eaas recommend export

control since it is obvious that United States
exports are entering Germany - 1/16/41

261

a) Henderson's attention called to rise in

prices: See Book 349, page 267
Foreign Funds Control:
See also War Conditions: Economic Defense Board
Germany:

Transactions in New York City accounts (12/6-31/40):

Federal Bureaa of Investigation report (Name) -

1/16/41
Hungary:

Transaction with Guaranty Trust Company - 1/15/41

270
98

Italy:

Transactions in New York City accounts (12/6-31/40):

Federal Bureau of Investigation report (Klans) 1/16/41

270

Japan:

Transactions in New York City accounts (12/6-31/40):

Federal Bureau of Investigation report (Klans) 1/16/41

270

Sweden:

Transactions in New York City accounts (12/6-31/40):

Federal Bureau of Investigation report (Klans) 1/16/41

270

Switzerland:

Transactions in New York City accounts (12/6-31/40):

Federal Bureau of Investigation report (Klaus) -

1/16/41
U.S.S.R.:

270

Transactions in New York City accounts (12/6-31/40):

Federal Bureau of Investigation report (Klaus) 1/16/41

270

-T-(Intimued)

Back Page

The Conditions (Continued)
Gold:

France:

Martinique: FIR refers a = Hull who

will report his - With 34 hours -

1/16/41

348

Date: and Eages: Gebit situation and possible
shipments for delivery = Bermany reported
- A American Lagation, Effective - 1/16/41

165

205,211

a) Belgian and Fullish galt included

Lent-Lease Legislation:
Testimony by BM - arrangements for - 1/15/41

1

a) Release to be situar = - until HNJr gives
word personally

b) Schwerr, Eath. Citizens. and Filey to

precede 362 to -

c) Resume of with staff neuthers
a) FIR discusses testimony with HAIr
e) Attachments to statement: (1) estimated

33

dollar expenditures amt receipts of British
Empire, excluding Canada, from January 1. 1941.

to January 1. 1942; (a) United Kingdom's
available dollar enclange assets on
January 1. 1942 (confidential); (3) estimated

long-term investments outside of
United States: w tax rates compared
the 1938 and - finance acts; (5)

writish expenditures - the MRT: (5) fiscal

reverses of Great Initials for fiscal year
ending March 3. 1942

f) Questions that - be minet HAR
g) Press comment

1) Discussion at metting - 1/16/41

35.36.37
40,43,45
49.50
56

114

a) Federal Service to be consulted

a) Meeting with Determine Reserve,
Commerce and British Purchasing

Ession.

145,179

h) Balla comment

1) Ississ. Rettining, and Young discuss

bill and testimony - 1/16/41

Parvis, Phillips, BMr. - Young, and Cochran
discuss testimony - and
Fish questions BUT and about "giving away
the Eary" - 1/15/42

Reed (Stanley) and Chancellar of Bachequer

congratulate - - teatherry - 1/17/41
High Johnson-Bill concurning
Johnson's comment - testimony - 1/17/41

172
179
212

321,322

336,339,500

Limison Committee:

Benefits derived from contraction reported by

Young to BUR and - - Hall - 1/17/41

Military Planning:
Reports from Lonine transittal by Lothian - 1/16/41

325,330

271.274.353

- - - - (Continued)

Book Page

Mar Conditions (Ontinued)

Purchasing Mission:
See also War Conditions: Lend-Lease Legislation

British Requirements for Steel in United States:
Haas sentential - 1/17/41

368

a) Game Burn provided with estimate of
requirements - 1/17/41

British Simily Commil in North America:
Personnel - 1/17/41

Jones' cold reception of Purvis and Phillips
reported the Stimson and Knox by - 1/17/41.
Testing Order: Official sales of British-onned
dollar securities, 2/22/40-1/11/41
Shipping:

Losses - British, Allied, and neutral - 1/16/41
British Marchant Shipping Situation: Chief of
Staff memorandum

Silver:
Spain: State Department asked by Cochran concerning
problem of refining and paying for approximately
$750,000 worth of Spanish silver - 1/17/41

313
333
315

323,324,325
352
196

197

320

Steel:

British Requirements for Steel in United States:
Haas securation - 1/17/41
a) Game Dunn provided with estimate of
requirements - 1/17/41

White, Harry R
To assist Tagner am monetary study - 1/17/41

313
333

303

Willkie, Tendell L

Trip to England and men to accompany him discussed

at 9:30 meeting - 1/16/41

110,175

1

January 15, 1941
9:35 a.m.
RE AID TO BRITAIN

Present:

Mr. Tuhn
Mr. White

Yr. Schwart

Yr. Bell

Yr. Foley
Yrs. Klotz
Yr. Cochran
E.M.Jr:

Now, I want to find out, where is the

White:

This is the one which includes Canada

statement now? Has it been mimeographed

as you wished.

E.V.Jr:

Yes. Now, what I want to do is this.

Did you (Schwarz) have this thing mineogranhed.

Schwars:

Yes.

H.M.Jr:

I take it Foley wants to go up on the
Eill, to be there now, don't you, Ed?

Foley:

All right.
I - not going up until later. You can

H.M.Jr:

whome m. I OR not at all well, and I
- going to stay here. I want Harry White
to stay and I would like to get a chance
to go over some of this stuff with him,
but Chick, I want you to look at me. Until
I personally tell you to release this thing,

2

-2you don't give it to anybody.
Schwarz:

I will stay right with you.

H.M.Jr:

No, you go up there.

Schwarz:

H.M.Jr:

I will go up now, and wait for you.
what is the other one that is there?

Schwar-:

There are three. (See attachments 1, 2, and 3.)

H.M.Jr:

Have you got them numbered

White:

There are just those two.

H.M.Jr:

What is the third one

White:

The third one is a list of the various

H.M.Jr:

Have you got those mimeographed?

White:

Yes, but I doubt whether you want to
distribute them.

H.M.Jr:

Just so we understand it, Chick, you go up
there now so you will be up there, and you

Empire assets which are not confidential
which you may or may not want to refer to.

can take one of the Negro messengers with

you to sit on it, or one of your boys; but

if this stuff gets out until I tell you to --

Schwarz:

It won't get to anybody.

H.M.Jr:

I won't accept any excuses, do you understand?

Schwarz:

Right.

White:

Does Mr. Feis know that?

3

-3Cochran:

At your request I am getting this to

Feis. I was just sending it over there
to his office.

H.V.Jr:

Has it gone

Cochran:

Hawkey is over there. I can ston him.

H.M.Jr:

You had better go and tell him until I want

the thing released, it is not to be given

out.
Cochran:

I will stress that.

White:

You had better call him right away.

Cochran:

I will get Mr. Hull's office directly because
Feis is there.

H.M.Jr:

Well, just get that word to them, will you?

Cochran:

Surely.

H.M.Jr:

Then come back.

Schwarz:

That means the committee or nobody.

H.M.Jr:

Nobody until I give you the word personally.
I don't want this to be given to anybody,
do you understand, and I won't accent any
excuses now.

Schwarz:

You won't be given any.

H.M.Jr:

All right. It went over this morning to Feis

White:

Just now. He said he had instructions to give
it to him. It was about ten minutes ago.
The British had a copy last night.

H.M.Jr:

That is all right. Tell, you (Schwers) might

-4as well get un and don't you (Foley) want

to get up on the Hill I don't want to troop
in the whole bunch at once. I will be here,

Ed, and you let me know how the thing is going.
I mean, supposing - in any case, you give me

e call not later than 10:30. Now, where is
the place
Foley:

It is the House Ways and Means Committee
hearing room, Ways and Means, where we go

on taxes. That is the new House Office
Building. They moved it from the Foreign

Affairs Committee hearing room because it

wasn't big enough, and they are holding it
in the lays and Means.

E.Y.Jr:

I don't know who is going with you, but you

can 20 and Kuhn, you go on un on the Hill and

I think it would be useful if you would let
Professor Odegarde go with you.

Tubm:

All right.

E.M.M.

And tell him to listen and if he sees something - now, for instance, he said one thing

walking home last night. I tried out this
thing on the question of collateral. He
said one thing, "Tell, if they want collateral,
it seems to me that Angland is offering at

sufficient security through the fighting that
she is doing now.

Kuhn:

Offering us our security as collateral.

E.M.Jr:

I mean just - well, she is giving us security
through doing our fighting and through the
Fritish fleet, but I mean I want him there

in case he catches something and he can write

it out and give it to Harry White and Harry

White will give it to me, but anyway, it is
8 treat for him. I am doing it largely for
that reason, do you see?

5

-5 (Mr. Cochran entered the conference.)
H.M.Jr:

Did you catch him?

Cochran:

I got Mr. Hull's office. They hadn't given
it to him yet, and I told Hawkey to wait and
give it to Feis personally.

H.M.Jr:

Hawkey

Cochran:

Hawkey is my assistant.

H.M.Jr:

Give it to Fels?

Cochran:

Yes, Feis is in with the Secretary now.

H.M.Jr:

What message did you give to Feis

Cochran:

Feis is with the Secretary, and I told him

it was not to be shown to anyone except Full

until you released it, until you use it yourself

before Congress.
H.M.Jr:

That is right, and you told that to Hawkey

Cochran:

No, I told it to Brown who is the Secretary

H.M.Jr:

I see. How many copies are there over there?

Cochran:

Just one of each.

H.M.Jr:

Well, Hull is entitled to it.

Cochran:

Yes. It was understood I should give it

H.M.Jr:

Bell:

to the Secretary.

to him.

That is right. Non, Danny, are you going

uo when I go uo or what

well, I will leave that to you. I will go

6

-5
whenever you want me to.
E.M.Jr:

Well, my thought was this. Ton never
know what they are going to ask, you see,
and I think that your brain on this balance
sheet would be useful to me, so when I begin

to go over it, I would like you to listen
and you might pick - something. I think

if you and White stay here, but be prepared.

Have your own man un there and have everything

public then and everything. What is his name?

Bell:

Heffelfinger.

E.M.Jr:

Have him ready and I would like to go over

Bell:

All right. You mon't go before 10:30°

E.F.Jr:

No, but I am going to start working on this

this stuff with you and White.

right now. Now, does employed went to tell

me anything?
Folay:

Do you want John there - the taxes

E.M.J.:

No. Haven't you got it?

White:

Te have it, but I thought you might - we have
the table but in case you went to call him

to give you a rest, let him discuss it. It

might give you a few minutes' rest.
H.M.Jr:

What, the comparisons?

White:

If they call on a comperison, I thought you
might say that their debt is very much
larger, probably almost as much as ten,
but Mr. Sullivan is here who follows that
closely, and that might give you several
minutes' rest, if you are being pushed.

7

-7H.M.Jr:

Yes. Have you got the stuff?

White:

Yes.

H.W.Jr:

Have you (Foley) got it°

Foley:

Harry has got it. He has got the charts.
You can submit the charts for the record.
It seems to me that no detailed explanation
is necessary.

E.M.Jr:

No. O.K., gents. You call me in any event.

Foley:

I will call you in any event before 10:30.

E.M.Jr:

When are you going to go up?

Cochran:

Do you need me?

H.M.Jr:

I want you on the Hill.

Cochran:

When you go -

H.M.Jr:

That will be time enough. I will see you
later.
(Mr. Kuhn, Mr. Schware, Mr. Foley and
Mr. Cochran left the conference.)

E.M.Jr:

Have you got a copy of this?

White:

No, I will give him one.

Bell:

Have you got a prepared statement you are
going to read?

H.M.Jr:

You are going to hear it now. Nobody

could give me a statement that I liked,
so I an going to do it my own way. You
people could sit both in front of me and

make life a little easier.

8

-8Have you (White) got something for

Mrs. Klotz
White:

I was just looking for another copy.

H.M.Jr:

Odegarde has got an interesting mind. Just

to digress a minute, the thing that interests
me, he is going to do all of this studying
on how to approach the thing, and he says,
"Now, Mr. Morgenthau, do you want to do it

the way the Armor Company does? They take

it and say to their employees, 'Now, you can

buy these baby bonds. Or -" this will
interest you - he said, "Now, I am afraid

you are not going to agree with me. Would

you rather, for instance, go to the unions
and have them spread it to the union members
and let it come from the bottom un rather
than from the employers down," so I said,
"There is no choice. The whole purpose of

the thing is to get the morale of the people I am more interested in getting people
interested, you see, in this thing rather than

have it from the employer down;" so he said,
Now let me ask you another one. I am just

giving you this. I know I am killing time,
but I want to. The other thing, he said,
"Which way would you prefer, if a county
raises a hundred thousand dollars, present
them with an American flag, or would you

like to say to them, 'If you raise a hundred
thousand dollars, that will pay for a pursuit
ship.

White:

Well, the second.

H.M.Jr:

Well, I know, but I am giving it the way
he is thinking, you see, so I said, "Well,
we can't say honestly that that hundred

thousand dollars will go, because we don't

know about the bookkeeping; but you can say

9

-9that a hundred thousand dollars will buy a

pursuit ship." He said, "That is correct.
I just want to give you the kind of thing
that he is talking to Bryan and these other
fellows and when we finally get something

in writing, I want you to sit in, but the
fellow is approaching it -White:

A fresh approach.

H.M.Jr:

From the way I wanted. In other words, he
is just as determined, I mean without my
putting - to have the thing come from the
grass roots up rather than from the banks

down. It is interesting to have a man like
that around.

White:

I would like to send for another copy of this.

H.M.Jr:

That is all right. He says that some of the

advertising during the World War was the most
God awful stuff you ever saw. He saw a picture
of the bombing of the Woolworth Tower, the
Woolworth Tower crumbling, and they say unless
you buy a bond, this is what is going to happen,

what they call fear.

Bell:

Yes. Of course, that was made un rather
quickly. They didn't have any experience and

a lot of it was terrible.

H.M.Jr:

When I told a few things to MacLeish last
night, he said, "Gee, can I meet that man?
I want to meet him. He sounds good to me.
So I have arranged that he should see

MacLeish. But as Harry put it, it is a
fresh viewpoint.

White:

He has imagination.

(Discussion off the record.)

10

- 10 E.M.Jr:

Nom, this is not my reading copy, I hope.

White:

I an sorry, but it is. The can have & larger
one made for you.

H.M.Jr:

That is what Yrs. Klots is here for. Earte
you got two more conies?

White:

Yes.

H.M.Jr:

Give one to Yes. Elots. "EstimateE Dollar
Exempitizes and Receipts of the British

Entire, Excluding Danada. That is THIS
isn
it

hite:

It excludes what Demada gets in receipts,
but It doesn't exclude what England and

the rest of the British Empire has to TAT

to and from Demacke.

E.M.Jr:

Say that artiz, will you please?

White:

This excludes what Canada may get or lose.

You rementer, as I told you, she will probably
get about 200 million dollars of role & year
but that is not Included: but it does include

what England, for example, will have to TAT
to Canada, and this is the only may it DEZ

be extressed. The tried it in a dosen different
ways. It is the only accurate TAY. It is
the receipts of the British Empire without
Canada.

.M.Jr:
.

I don't like to hurt anybody's feelings.

tell, I thought they said they wanted Canada

in.

White:

Tell, Canada is in, but not Danada's receipts.
Canada is treated like a foreign country, so
for as this thing is concerned.

H.M.Jr:

Well, where is she*

11

- 11 Bell:

Town at the bottom there is a deficit.

E.M.Jr:

I don't understand it yet°

Thite:

I think it will be clearer if you go through
It and then we will go back to the title.
'1., United Kingdom Payments To Be Made On

Total British Purchases From The United States.
(Yr. Dochran returned to conference.)
F.M.Ne

have you (Cochran) got a copy of this

Cochran:

Yes. I just smoke to Feis in Mr. Hull's
office, and he is telling Mr. Hull he has
this but he is not letting him take it un
to the Hill, even. He is afraid if he had
it in his papers, it might get out; so Feis
is going to hold onto it and they will phone
IS if they need - if they press Mr. Hull for
any information, but they are not going to
DB this: and Fels is not even going to
tive it to him to take up on the Hill.

F.M.Mr:

Eas Hull started"

Cochram:

Ee was just leaving there. They were just
rutting some finishing touches on the statement.

Thite:

Te have the British order program down.

E.M.Jr:

That last thing they gave me marked January 6th

or 8th, the thing that Purvis gave me which I
gave to the President, is the thing which gives

the quantities but not the dollars that they

will need, you see. You (McKay) had better
fine out from Young's office if he has got

that un on the Hill with him. Ee is us there
to be useful. If he hasn't got it, somebody

12

- 12 -

had better take it up to him.
Now, "United Kingdom Payments To Be Made

On Total Purchases From The United States.

"1- Sums to be paid during 1941 on orders

placed before January 1, 1941, one billion,

274 million. (In addition, $119 million
will fall due after January 1, 1942.)

"2- Imports from the United States not
purchased through the British Purchasing
Commission, largely on private accounts,

280 million. Total, one billion 554 million.
"B., Purchases By Empire Countries (excluding
U.K. and Canada) from United States during
'41.

Now, where have you defined "Empire Countries"?
White:

I didn't think "Empire Countries" need to be

defined, because every time we mention
Empire Countries, we have to exclude Canada
because Canada shouldn't be included.

H.M.Jr:

What are they?

White:

Australia, India, New Zealand, South Africa,
and the Colonies, Hong Kong.

H.M.Jr:

Colonies? What colonies?

White:

Hong Kong, British West Africa.

Cochran:

It is really all of the British Empire except
Canada.

E.M.Jr:

Do you know how many there are? Forty-four?

White:

Forty-four? I didn't know there were that
many.

13

- 13 Cochran:

I see, Bermuda and the West Indies

H.M.Jr:

Yes, I think there are 44. I think there
are 44 governors, if I am not mistaken,

for all these different things.
"1- Commodity imports.

"2- Payments for shipping, tourist expenditures, interest payments, etc.
"C. Purchases by Empire countries, excluding
Canada, from areas outside the U.S. recuiring

gold or dollars."

That is excluding the U.K., what
White:

That is right. If I may have just one word
of explanation, maybe it will clear it up.

The have to exclude Canada every time we say

the British Empire, but beyond that, the
first one, A, is what the United Kingdom
buys from United States. The second one is
what other parts of the Empire buy from United
States, and the third is what the whole Empire,
always excluding Canada, buys from other

countries besides United States.
H.M.Jr:

Purchased by the Empire countries, excluding
Canada. Outside the United States.

"1-Purchases by Empire countries (chiefly U.K.)
from areas outside the United States and

Canada requiring dollars, 247 million.

"2-Payments by Empire countries (chiefly U.K.)

to Canada and Newfoundland.

I see.
White:

That is the one item they wanted to add,

14

- 14 and it was because of that item that we had

to shift around all the --

Bell:

Why do they require dollars outside of --

White:

Well, they claim they have to pay dollars
for Bolivian tin and Paraguayan lead, and
they say there are some things they can't
buy without paying dollars or gold, and that

is what it amounts to. That is not 3 net

figure, because they also get some.
That is what they pay cash.
Bell:

I say there is a tynographical error in (2)
under "C", countries". I don't know whether
you want to correct it or not.

White:

Oh. It is a little late.

Bell:

Yes.

H.M.Jr:

Well anyway, "By Empire countries, (chiefly
in the United Kingdom to Canada and New-

foundland) 880, so the total dollar resuire-

ment for all transactions for the coming year

is a little over three billion dollars.

Bell:

That is already on the books.

White:

What did you say?

Bell:

This is what is already in the mill, on

White:

Well, this is their estimates of this coming

the books.

year.

Bell:

But the first item is just on contracts,

White:

Already in the mill, placed before January 1.

or just on orders already placed°

13

- 15 It doesn't include anything placed after.
There has been very little placed, I
understand, during the first ten days,
with no orders.

well, got the thing last night, seven
different memorands from Philip Young,

which I read this morning between four
and five, and including those ships in
December they placed orders for 110 - Ilion
dollars.

hite:

This year^

E.v.Nr:

December.

bite:

Oh, December. ell, that should be in

here.

Tt must be : here.

Mile:

Yes. The only thing - it should be in

here because got Philip's figures yesterday

and made another confection, and changed them

so the only thing that shouldn't be in there
333 they Inced next to nothing,

is what they +Isce5 since January 1, and my

but : = not sure.

You know the joke is, where the pressure is
coins to come to get this thing through,

Bill Knutsez talked to it yesterday. won't

place 37 oppers for these engines with gekard
and Studetaker because they tell me that you
won't let the Enclish -lace any more orders.

sale, Tell, we can't -lace the orders.

the ell, you had better come over and see me.

e have been telking about this thing for

two months.

hite:

It is all right.

16

- 16 F.V.J.:

It is all right, that is just the way I

"hite:

That is your responsibility. They can place
the orders, but they - they know that they

feel. I mean, temporarily.
can't be placed.

F.V.Jr:

I am tickled because Knudsen may tomorrow

20 up and say in his testimony, Tell,
Mr. Morgenthau said I couldn't tlace these
orders.

White:

And then you can say you are not termitting

them to place them because you are not

certain that they will have the cash svailatle to pay for them. They may, but you want
to --

H.M.Jr:

That is why I think it is all to the good.
Ail right, so far, Dan Do you see any holes

Bell:

No. I have got of question when you get down
to the bottom.

E.V.Jr:

You see what I am proposing to do, Tan, is
to just say a few words. Now, gentlemen,

I have come un here. take it what you want

to know from me is, what is the balance sheet
of the United Kingdom as we have we have it

and as the information has been given to us

by the British Treasury. Noz, for the first
time in history I am going to be able to give
you this information. want to kind of
show that this is something that has teen
so secret and everything else, But I feel that

the situation is such that before you gentlemen
want to vote or cass on the question of whether
or not the United States Government should

lend these materials to England, naturally
you want to know her financial condition.

17

- 17 White:

It is a momentous occasion for a country at

war to inform the public exactly what their
foreign exchange assets are.

H.M.Jr:

And I am doing this with the knowledge and

the approval of the British Government. I

mean, they have given me the permission to

do this. Don't you think I ought to say
that?

White:

I think so.

Bell:

Yes.

Klotz:

Yes.

H.M.Jr:

And I mean this is something which has never

been done before. It wasn't done during the
last war. But before you people take this
step, the Administration feels that you are

entitled to know the exact situation.
White:

That statement is important. Would you want

H.M.Jr:

No. Harry, I mustn't do anything to criticize

to say that they were a little reluctant but
they realized, et cetera.
them.

White:

Well, that won't be criticism. It would
show the importance of the data.

H.M.Jr:

Well, I want to say that it was only after
careful deliberation.

Cochran:

They left it to your discretion, do you want to
put that in?

H.M.Jr:

No, and this is going to be just as much a
surprise - just as much news to their own
people as it is going to be to the people

18

- 18 -

of the United States, But we feel, at least
I do, that the first thing before you gentlemen
take any steps at all, you are entitled to
know what is the condition of the British
present.
White:

That is the important statement.

H.M.Jr:

And we certainly aren't roing to make the
mistakes that ze made during the last war.
You see, Mrs. Roosevelt said something I
can't cuite paraphrase. She said to me,
"Henry, unless you tell these people everything, we are no different than J. P. Morgan
was during the last WAT.

White:

Do you think they will understand what you

mean by "not going to make the same mistakes

unless you 20 on and explain that, because

they are liable to think you are referring

to the mistake of lending money? You might

H.M.Jr:

20 into a further explanation.
The point that I want to get over, here is

something that has been guarded so secretly

that nobody knows it. As far as I know,
never in the history of the world has one

government completely opened its tooks to
another government, but the situation being

'hite:

She hasn't omened her books.

H.M.

Why haven't they^

White:

They have made : statement.

H.M.Jr:
White:

Tell, it is the information that is in the

books.

Yes, but we haven't seen it.

19

- 19 H.M.Jr:

Well

White:

I mean protect yourself that way, that is
all, that this is information they have given
you.

H.M.Jr:

But I want to give this a little build-up,
see.

Bell:

I don't want to disturb your line of thought

that you worked out, but I would change the
term "balance sheet to show them the financial

status of the British Government as it relates
to the United States dollar, because they
were very particular in their cable, as I
understand it, that this doesn't mean that
they are out of cash internally, and the other
thing is that this is not a balance sheet, it
it more in the nature of an operating state-

White:

ment, see, call it a financial status.
Financial status in relation to the United
States dollar.

E.M.Jr:

That is a good one. It is the financial

Bell:

In relation to the dollar only. It is

status.

financial status of the Pritish Government

as to their dollar position.
White:

H.M.Jr:

Yes, that is all right. Status and position.
As to their dollar - as to their dollars.
As to their dollar position.

Bell:

You could say as to the dollar.

White:

As to their dollar position.

Bell:

That is all right.

20

- 20 E.M.Jr:

You speak of taking the position in dollars
and taking the position in sterling.

Cochran:

E.M.Jr:

It is the dollar position.
This is the financial status of the British

White:

Dollar assets and needs.

H.M.Jr:

Well --

Fell:

Position covers the needs and assets.

E.M.Jr:

Well, a word won't matter. As to their
dollar position.

White:

H.M.Jr:

Put you are going to say it orally.
Well, I on roing to have this, but I an
going to say it orally.

Thite:

It is not going to be in the printed statement

H.M.Jr:

No. Dollar Receipts.

Government as to their dollar position. Or,
as to their dollar needs.

at all

"A. Dollar receipts by U.K. from U.S.
"1- U.K. exports of merchandise to U.S., 165.

12- Net balance -- these 478 all estimates,

aren't they
White:

These are all their estimates.

H.M.Jr:

I will out that down as soon as I get the
other sheet. These are all estimates, are
they?

-

21

- 21 Flots:

It says so on top.

E.W.Ir:

Well then, why not say "The financial status
Why not say, Estimated financial status"?
Well, I think that is implied when you say
Tinancial status."

Whites

Fell:

Your statement will carry that through,

because this, I take it, will be inserted
in the record.

White:

Yes.

Any dollar receipts by United Kingdom in

United States.

"1- U.K. exports of merchandise to U.S.
"2- Net balance from U.S. to U.K. on shipping,
tourist expenditures, interest payments, etc.

"B. Dollar receipts by Emoire countries
(excluding Canada)

"1- Commodity exports."
White:

That is rubber, tin, wool.

E.M.Jr:

I see.

"2- Australian gold exports to U.S.
"S- South African exports of gold."
You separated those two for some reason?
White:

well, some comes direct to United States
and the others get to United States eventually,
through Great Britain.

E.M.Jr:

Now, "Canadian assistance to U.K." What is
that?

22

- 22 White:

That is in the form of repatriated securities.
That is, England expects to pay Canada during

the year 260 million dollars in her own

securities. She will give back securities
which Englishmen had owned. It is just the
way she give us back our securities.

H.M.Jr:

that happens to the Canadian gold?

Thite:

Well, they say it isn't there, it is Canada's.

H.M.Jr:

Yes, but what does Canada do with it?

White:

Canada's position with United States, Canada

will in her relations with us gain gold.
She will have about 200 million dollars

more at the end of this year than she has
now. She has a favorable balance.

Bell:

Even in spite of her war purchases in '41°

Thite:

Yes. I have her sheet if they ask for it.
I didn't want to bring it up.

H.M.Jr:

You had better not. But she has?

White:

Yes. That is one of the reasons why they

H.M.Jr:

Harry, just remember this, we don't have the
permission of the Canadian Treasury to release

may not like to include it. But they have
a surplus of United States dollars to be
received by Canada during 1941, 198 million
dollars.
their figures. Hait a minute, just a second,
take it easy now, so therefore if I have to
stall I can simply say, "Gentlemen, I am not

prepared, but in a week I can come back again

if you want me to, to give the Canadian
position."

23

- 23 White:

That is a good way to do it. Then you
won't have to tell them you haven't got
permission to give it.

H.M.Jr:

Oh no. Check, Dan?

Bell:

Yes, it is very good.

White:

But I think you could say, Mr. Secretary,

if they do ask, that they are not in the

same position as England. They don't one

us - give them a general idea what it is.
H.M.Jr:

I can say this. "I have simply been assured
by Mr. Clark, representing the Canadian
Treasury, that as far as they are concerned

White:

for this year, they are all right."
They are in a different position. They are
all right.

Bell:

They can take care of their requirements

up to September.
White:

For next year?

H.M.Jr:

For this year. That is what he said.

White:

And then you can give them the exact data.

H.M.Jr:

And then if they say, Well, why doesn't

Canada help England more?" "Well, they

are buying back their securities as fast

as they can."
White:

They are buying back --

H.M.Jr:

I can say that is a matter between Canada
and England, and I am not prepared to talk

about it.

24

- 24 White:

I think so, because there may be some doubt
as to whether she is buying them back so fast.

H.M.Jr:

They tell me yesterday, just to digress a
minute - your were here, Dan - that the night
before last this syndicate offered 80,000
shares of Montgomery Ward at three o'clock

at the price it closed at the market, and

inside of E few minutes the whole thing was

sold.
White:

They probably could have done that any time.

H.Y.Jr:

And this BET of Dominick & Dominick, "You

know, Mr. Margenthau, it is the easiest thing

I ever se and none of us can explain it. Te

can't understand why a group will buy 80,000
shares of Homitgemery Ward at the market's

close, one minute after market closed, but
they won't Buy it one minute before, so I

said, "Well, maybe there is something wrong
with the New York Stock Exchange if they don't
want to buy it." And I thought Schenker would

fall out of his chair with laughter. Ee loved

White:

it. Ee thought it EES marvelous.
I told Sir Frederick over the phone because

he raised the question again about Lever
Brothers and I told him what our information
was and he said he Was surprised, he didn't

know it. be didn't say it wasn't so, he just
said he was surprised.

H.M.Jr:

Yes.

Thite:

I think you are up to "C", Dollar Receipts.
C. Canadian assistance to U.K. 260. Total
dollar receipts by Empire countries excluding
Canada, one billion 155 million. Total deficit
to countries other than Canada during '41, 844.

H.M.Jr:

25

- 25 That means - total dollars to other countries.
Does that mean other countries in the Empire?
White:

No, me are now talking of the whole empire.

H.M.Jr:

Does that mean the whole world?

White:

Yes.

Bell:

Including the United States

White:

Every country.

H.M.Jr:

Inc then the total dollar deficit with

Countries other than Canada.

Canada, 620. They want to make that stick
out, do they?

H.M.Jr:

That is the difference between the sale of
securities, 260 and the 880, see. It shows
right up in England.
There is the 880°

White:

On the expenditure side.

Bell:

The last item.

White:

Payments ty Canada.

H.M.Jr:

Total deficit of the British Empire, one
tillion, 460. Gee whiz, they raised that

Fell:

on me, didn't they? Now, before we go on,

do you want to say anything, Dan®

Bell:

line relates to the next statement. We show

a deficit of one billion 464, and I take it

that what you are trying to show here is that

the British can't place any more orders because

that have just got enough liquid assets in the
billion 775 to take care of the one billion 464.

26
- 26 No, out it the other way around, if you
don't mind. What I an trying to show
with all the power that I have got in me,

is that they have got enough money to pay

for the orders they have already placed.

Fell:

That is right. But no new orders. Now,

E.M.Jr:

That is the point.
I- other words, the coint they will raise,
Mr. Secretary, they are all right, they have
got plenty of money to meet their deficit
and they have got 300 million dollars left

Fell:

where we go from here --

over from these statements without explanation.

E.M.Ir:

That is right. But I am willing to say,

But these figures, the direct investments,

900 million, I don't know how much they can

cash in on them. It is going to take time
and - but the point is, gentlemen, that if

they were able to get a humdred cents on

the dollar, of which I have grave doubts,

they have got enough money to finance them-

selves to the end of the year.

Whites

and they have to have some working balance.

But what I have been trying to show you is

that the reason me need this bill is that

these requirements that they want - new orders
that they need so desperately to continue
fighting, they haven't got the money.
White:

That is right.

E.M.Jr:

They just haven't got the money.

Cochran:

There has already been a retardation in the
placing, hasn't there?

27
- 27 H.M.Jr:

Oh yes.

White:

I have something on that that I would like to
give you after that, but I called Sir Frederick

about that billion dollars.

H.M.Jr:

The direct investments

White:

Direct. I said, You must have E figure."

Ee wanted to make it lower, and we finally

compromised on the 900 million, because you

had used it before; and I said it wasn't

far from what Jones 00 others might use, and
we made it about. 5e would have preferred

to say "not to exceed, because he thinks

it will be closer to six or 700, so the only

difficulty between this and what we would
have liked is, they have direct investments,
of about 900; and he would have liked to say

"not to exceed, but I think he is under-

stating.
E.M.Jr:

Say, that 205 has shrunk since yesterday.

Tasn't it more then that?

White:

Well, we were including some gold that we
mon't get here since January, 245, so me
decided we had better DATE it as of January 1
and exclude that.

H.M.Jr:

"The British Government has 33 million dollars

of gold scattered in various parts of the world.
Most of this gold, however, is in areas from
which it cannot be shipped quickly or safely
to the United States.
"British banks, private tersons and corporations
have balances in the United States of 305 million.
The British Government feels that these balances
are at the minimum level necessary for the
continued conduct of business, and are therefore

not available for use by the British Government."

23

I think it is all right.
Fell:

You - the galit is not includen, Harry,

White:

No. That gale is included in their regular
receipts during the per

cell:

The 2050

White:

Yo, not the 205. That is the assets on which

Bell:

The emorts from Smith Crick menthy minet"

White:

Yes.

Bell:

That is SET estimate of the mines. That isn't

which will - in -

they will have to seet that deficit.

available imediataly either. It is over

the year. In that statement there, you were
worrying abmit - estimate. If you wanted
to - the other me, the financial status.
Tow mile SET BE DESCRIPT = estimatee, "As

nearly BE - CET esting = this time."

White:

It is the British Sometiment that has
estimate most of it - not the orders, but the
other. Time - SET, " merity as can be
estimatet, this figure of Insurance securities
reported in Iritian as of January E, 616
million dillars, that drea must include 140

million fillers of varions times of securities
which the are not certain wer the marketed

easily- In fact, them i think they

could The marketed easily- See are Australian

dallar securities."
H.M.Jr:

Say that again

White:

There is 140 million

29
- 29 -

E.I.Jr:

In the 616*

White:

In addition to the 516. There is 140
million dollars which has been frequently

mentioned here.
E.M.Jr:

That is what kind of securities

White:

Well, it is Instrulian and New Zealand and

dollar securities, or optional dollar.

They doubtless have some value.
E.M.Jr:

There are the properties located

White:

They are loans of other countries - the
investments are not in the United States.
They are loans that have been floated in

dollar securities.

E.M.Jr:

well, if -

White:

E.1.Jr:

There is E little bit more velvet is all.
That do they call Australia

White:

Commonwealth of Australia.

E.M.Jr:

If they wanted to borrow 10 million dollars,
they might have horrowed it in New York.

White:

That is right and floated E dollar loan.
Some of them are optional. Non, they
do have some market value, so that in
case -

Bell:

Well, that isn"t the kind of a -I think it is more.

Dochran:

Bell:

That is not the kind of an obligation you
are talking about.

30

- 30 White:

They floated an Australian loan in dollars.

Bell:

I take it that Australia may have borrowed,
say, from Belgium, in Belgian francs, and
there is a provision in the bond that the
Belgians, the holders, can get American
dollars.

White:

That is optional. There are a lot of them
and all together they make 140 million.

H.M.Jr:

I think when I get through, I have got to
say this, "Now look, gentlemen, this is
a rough estimate. I may be off 50 or a
hundred million dollars, or I may be off
200 million dollars, but this is as good you have got the best that I can give you.

White:

And you got it from the British Government.

H.M.Jr:

"And I got it from the British Government."

Thite:

They accept the responsibility for these
things.

H.M.Jr:

"I got this from the British Government. I
may be off a couple of hundred million dollars,
but at least I am giving you the best that
I have got; and if, while the bill is in the
progress of going through Congress I get any
additional information, I will furnish it
to you promptly.

White:

Or if you want any information that we can
get.

H.M.Jr:

See?

Bell:

They may come back with the question,
"Well, have you checked these figures

and do you feel them fairly reliable?"

31

- 31 White:

They are very apt to ask you that question.

Now --

H.M.Jr:

I know how to answer that.

White:

It is a difficult question.

H.M.Jr:

I can answer that. "I want to say that in

my dealings with the British Government
during the past seven years, at no time have

White:

they ever wilfully misled me.
As far as I know."

E.M.Jr:

Tell, I mean --

Bell:

No, he can't say that.

Cochran:

You have no evidence of ever being misled.

H.M.Jr:

I an going to say, "In my dealings with
the British Treasury, I have been entirely

satisfied and I have never known an instance

where --*
White:

That is right, "You have never known an
instance where they have given you misinformation.

H.M.Jr:

"And I have no reason to believe that this
information they have given me isn't correct
within the realms of human margin of error.

Bell:

That is not unusual in this kind of state-

H.M.Jr:

And I will say, "After all, you gentlemen

ments.

have got to remember that they are being
bombed daily"and can I say - they have meter

said it, you know - "You know the British
Treasury is -"is it 11 Downing Street Do

you know it has been completely destroyed?

32
- 32 White:

No, I didn't know that.

E.M.Ne

all their records and everything.

Bell:

Is that right
Sure, he told me this when he came here.
He said to me, "You know, Yr. Yorgenthem,

you asked me for these things. Tell," he
said, "the British Treasury is no more.

Dechrant

You see, it faces on Whitehall, Earry. It

is just around the corner from No. 10 Downing.

White:

It would be very interesting if you could
say that.

(Unrecorded telephone conversation with

Yr. Poley.)
White:

The President wrote part of Hull's state-

ment.

E.Y. Ir:
White:

Ee 616°

Some preliminary portion, I don't know how

much.

E.N.Are

Tell: There did you get that from?

White:

Berle.

Fell:

lirote mhom?

White:

The President contributed part of the statement.

Cochram:

They were still revising there when I

E.M.,Yr:

I suppose for me to go up this may is just
unheard of, but I an not going to get calé

talked to them both times.

feet at this time.

33

- 33 White:

Oh, I think that this is indeed the best
way. Particularly after his prepared statement. I don't see what you could add.
This is the important information. The
minute the Press gets this, they will
disappear and come back later.

H.M.Jr:

Now, have you got your South American

White:

Yes.

H.M.Jr:

There is that?

White:

I would like to take up something with

stuff*

you before that, if I may.

H.M.Jr:

The President of the United States calls me
up at 20 minutes to eleven to tell me what

to say. He calls me up and said, "I just
wanted to kid you. And then he proceeds
to tell me what to say. I don't know if I

understood what he said, but he said, "Non,
don't be too definite" and so forth and so
on and be sure of what Mr. Hull says and

if they offer any islands as security,
remember that they had better pay us
to take the islands. I says, "Don't worry
about that. I know how you feel about the
islands." Well anyway, I can't -(Unrecorded telephone conversation with

Mr. Foley.)
H.M.Jr:

Anyway, I told the President what I proposed
to do about my statements, and everything

34

- 34 -

else, and he said, "That is all right."
White:

Mr. Secretary, Mr. Bloom is going to ask

you some questions which we planted with

him, and I have got to have time in the

car to tell you what they are. I don't

know if you can do it right now.
H.M.Jr:

No, do it in the car.

35

Estimated Doiler Expenditures of

Pritish Enpire, Excluding Canada, from January
1, 1941 to January.1. 1942.

(in Killions of U. S. Dollars)
Dollar Expenditures
A. U.E. payments to be made on total purchases
from the U. S.
1. Sums to be paid during 1941 on orders
$1,274
placed before Jan. 1, 1941.

(In addition, $119 million will
fall due after Jan. 1, 1942)

2. Imports from U. S. not purchased through
the British Purchasing Commission,-250 $1,554
largely on private accounts.
B. Purchases by Empire countries (excluding
U.E. and Canada) from U.S. during 1941
1. Commodity imports.

333

2. Payments for shipping, tourist expeniiture, interest payments, etc

5

338

C. Purchases by Empire Countries, excluding
Canada, from areas outside the U.S. requir-

ing gold or dollars
1. Purchases by Empire countries (chiefly

U.K.) from areas outside the U.S. and
Canada requiring dollars
2. Payments by Empire Countries (chiefly

247

550

U.K. to Canada and Newfoundland

1,127
$3,019

Total dollar requirements for all transactions.
Dollar Receipts

A. Dollar receipts by U.K. from U.S.
1. U.K. exports of merchandise to U.S.
2. Net balance from U.S. to U.K. OC
shipping, tourist expenditures,
interest payments, etc

.$

165

15 $ 180

3. Dollar receipts by Empire countries (exclud
time Canada)

1. Commodity exports

2. Australian gold exports to U.S.
3. South African exports of gold

560
75

480

260

C. Canadian assistance to U.K.

Total dollar receipts by Empire countries,

$1,555

excluding Canada.

Total dollar deficit with countries other
than Canada during 1941

Total dollar deficit with Canada during
1941

Total dollar deficit of British Empire,
excluding Canada, during 1941

Total receipts and deficit on operations
with all countries other than Canada
during 1941

Treasury Department,

Division of Monetary Research.

1,115

544

620

1,464

$3,019

January 14, 1941.

36

CONFIDE TIAL
UNITED KINGDOM'S AVAILABLE DOLLAR EXCHANGE ASSETS

ON JANUARY 1, 1941

(In Millions)
Gold in U. S. or en route
Official dollar balances

$ 205
54

American securities -- reported by British
as of January 6

616

Total liquid assets
Direct and other investments
Total dollar exchange assets

875

about

900

$ 1,775

The British Government has $33 million of gold scattered in

various parts of the world. Most of this gold, however, is in
areas from which it cannot be shipped quickly or safely to the
United States.
British banks, private persons and corporations have balances
in the United States of $305 million. The British Government
feels that these balances are at the minimum level necessary for
the continued conduct of business and are therefore not
available for use by the British Government.

Treasury Department,

Division of Monetary Research.

January 14, 1941.

2

37

3

Estimated Long-Term Foreign Investments of the United
Kingdom Outside the United States

The following estimates are based on a number of studies,
most of which were made by British economists before the outbreak
of war.

Most of the investments are in sterling securities; a large
part of the Canadian investment 1s in Canadian dollars, and some
of the other investments are in the respective domestic currencies.
However, for convenience of presentation, the estimated nominal
value of the investments has been converted into sterling.
The market values, where given, are calculated from current
market quotations of the securities. Since market quotations are
not available for a large part of the investment, mo total market
value can be calculated.
Even where estimates of market value have been made, they

have only a limited significance, for the future market or
collateral value will depend on the rapidity with which the
securities are liquidated, on the general course of the war, and
on many other unpredictable factors. Of course, the figures of
nominal value are of even more limited significance.

(Million Founds)
Government

Other

Total

219

481

3

75

503

1

14

146

Railways

In British Empire
Canada

Nominal
Market

Australia

Nominal
Market

(410)

New Zealand

Nominal

131

India

Nominal
Market

187

75

(70)
425

(125)
300

1

250

550

British Afri a Nominal

188

1

250

438

Malaya

Nominal

6

78

84

Other

Nominal

Total in British Nominal
Empire

(250)

31

1,125

191

886

2233

38

-2(Million Pounds)

Government Railways Other Total
In Latin America
Argentina

Nominal
Market

Brazil

Nominal
Market

Chile

Nominal

Uruguay

Nominal
Market

Mexico

Nominal
Market

Peru

Nominal
Market

45

263

(32)

(52)

75

38

Venezuela

Nominal
Market
Nominal
Market

390

47

160

(14)

(5)

(22)

20

20

(5)

65

105

18

14

10

42

(21)

(8)

(1)

(12)

38

90

44

173

23

26

(1)
6

(1)
1,

(2)
2

(2)

Nil

25

( i)
3

0.2

(4)
(2)

( 5)

18

20

(17)

(17)

Colombia, Ecuador
Bolivia, Paraguay,
Central America Nominal

International
Total in Latin
America

28

50

Nominal
Nominal

(41)

( 2)

25

Cuba

83

6

204

451

317

1002

In Asia
China

Nominal

200

Japan

Nominal

50

East Indies

Nominal

50

Philippines
Total Asia

Nominal

8

Netherlands

308

39

-3In Europe

Nominal

In Other Areas 2/ Nominal

250
75

Total U.K. Investments outside United
States - Nominal Value

1/
2

3868

Not shown separately.

Mainly Iran, Egypt, Iraq and Portuguese East Africa.

Treasury Department,

Division of Monetary Research.

January 14, 1941.

40
COPY

COMPARISON OF BRITISH TAX RATES UNDER THE
1938 AND PRESENT FINANCE ACTS

1. Personal income tax rates and exemptions
(a) Exemptions

Present

1938

Single person

L 100

L 100

Married person

180

170

60

50

Each child

(b) Earned income credit

16-2/3%

20%

(Maximum

(c) Normal or standard rates

(Maximum

to 300)

to 250)

8-1/3%

25%

On first L 135, 1938 Act and

first b 165, present Act

On balance

25%

423%

First bracket L 2,000 to L 2,500

52%

10%

Maximum

4138

475%

(d) Surtax rates

(On over To 50,000) (On over to 20,000

(e) Amount of normal and surtax for
married couple, three children
Tax

:

:

:

2,000
4,000
10,000
20,000
100,000

343

579

1,065
4,062
9,975
63,875

1,698
5,985
14,548
86,548

2. Corporation income tax rates
1938
25%

Percent
Increase

1

to

to

Present

:

Act

:

1938

:

:

Income

Present
423%

68.8%

59.4
47.3
45.8
35.5

41

-2-

3. Excess profits tax
No excess profits tax was in effect under the Finance Act of 1938.
There was, however, a National Defense Contribution equal to 5 percent
of profits in the case of corporations and 4 percent in the case of
individuals and partnerships. The Finance (No. 2) Act of 1939 enacted
an excess profits tax at the rate of 60 percent. This has been increased
to 100 percent of profits in excess of base period earnings for certain
years 1935-1937.

4. Purchase tax

Under the Finance (No. 2) Act of August 22, 1940 the British
imposed a purchase tax of 33-1/3 percent on the wholesale value of
certain luxuries and 16-2/3 percent on certain goods in common use,
exempting food.

5. Excise taxes
:

:
:

Spirits, domestic, per
Imperial proof gallon

1938

: Present

13,12s, 6d

14,178,6d

Beer, domestic, per bbl.
of 36 Imperial gallons

L1, 48

Cigarettes, per thousand
weighing 3 lbs.

L1, 8s, 6d

Tea, Empire, per 1b.

Coffee, per cwt.

L4, la
12, 18s, 6d

: Percent
: Increase
34.5%

237.5

105.3

6d

6d

-

14s

14s

-

42

Well, gentlemen, there is the story. To understand it fully,
we must also remember what is happening to British resources at

home. The British, with one-third our population, are spending at
a rate of $12,000,000 a day on this war. They are spending sixty
percent of their national income for war purposes. Their annual

rate of expenditure is between four and five billion pounds - an
amount that would be between forty-eight and sixty Million dollars

a year if we, with three times their population, were putting forth
the same effort.

of this colossal expenditure the British are meeting over one
and one-fourth billion pounds, or about one-third of their annual
burden, out of taxation. The normal income tax rate in Great Britain
today is 42.5 percent, compared with about 4-6 percent for us. A
married man in England with two children, earning $1,600 a year,

pays $65 a year in income tax; a married mm with two children,
earning $10,000 a year, pays $3,450 a year to his Government. A

standard brand of cigarettes in England costs thirty cents a pack
today, all of the increase in price having been due to taxation.
A purchase tax of 33-1/3 is added to the atolesale price of all
luxury goods, and of 16-2/3 on many other commodities. I could go

on, but I think I have made my point. That I wated you to
remember is that the British people are not only dodging the bombs

and fighting for their existence, but that they are also making a
stapendous effort to pay for this war by themselves.

43

British Expenditures since the War
(in billions of pounds)

Sept. 3, 1939 through Ang. 31, 1940
Sept. 1, 1940 through Dec. 31, 1940

2.61
1.39

Total expenditure since the war
Expenditures in

4.00

At the annual rate of approximately

L 3.5

June, 1940
October, 1940
December, 1940

4.0
4.5

Budget Estimate 1940-41
(July, 1940)
Expenditure
Revenue
Loans

L 3,467 million

1,360 .:
2,107

44

British Government Debt as of November 30, 1940

(in billions of pounds)
L 10.62

Gross Debt
Funded Debt

8.18

Flosting Debt

2.44

Growth of British Government Debt

(in billions of pounds)

March 31,1936
.

1937
1938
1939
1940

November 30, 1940

7.80
7.80
8.03
8.16
8.94
10.62

45

Estimated revenues of Great Britain for the
fiscal year ending March 31, 1941 1/

#

Estimate for 1940-41

2 (millions of dollars 2/)
Ordinary Revenue:
Inland Revenue
$ 1,872

Income tax
Surtax

332
344

Estate duties

76

Stamps

National Defense Contribution)
Excess profits tax
Other inland revenue duties

1

280

)

Total inland revenue

4

$ 2,908

Customs and Excise
1,141.6

Customs

765.6

Excise

Total customs and excise

Motor vehicle duties

Total receipts for taxes

$ 1,907.2
140

$ 4,955.2

Treasury Department, Division of Tax Research
1

The estimates do not include any revenue from the Purchase
Tax. The Inland Revenue figure is based on Excess Profits

Tax at 60 percent rate; the rate of Excess Profits Tax-eas
raised by the Finance Act of 1940 to 100 percent, but the

resulting additional yield will not be received by the

Exchequer, except to a very minor degree, until 1941-42.
2 Pound converted at $4.00.
Source: Financial Statement (1940-41), Supplementary Financial
Statement (1940-41).

January 15, 1941
10:49 B.E.
H.M.Jr:

Hello.

Operator:

Stimson.

Henry L.
Stimson:

Hello, Henry.

H.M.Jr:

Harry, I got your request that you wanted
to know about a statement. II have no state-

ment but this is what signing to say.

S:

Well, someone else has adidas for me. I

didn't know it but I'm very glat to hear

what you're going a sayH.M.Jr:

Well, I have before - what II call the
financial status of the British Government
as to their dollar position, and they
authorized me at 7:00 last night that
I could use it. New I'm stanly reading from
that.

S:

H.M.Jr:

You're reading fres that

From that. It's actually their position
as to their needs for the rest of this year

and -

S:

It's a what-do-ou-call-2 - balance sheet?

H.M.Jr:

Well, I just call is their financial status

S:

of the British Engine.

H.M.Jr:

Yes, as it relates a detr dollar position.

S:

H.M.Jr:

Relating to dollar position.
And it shows what their deficit is and that
they have resources sufficient to cover
those for the balance of With year. But
my whole discussion will the fin relation to
this and I have nothing prepared other
than these sheets of pager withinto relate

purely to figures, you S:

Yes, I see. Well, - I'm sending as I

46

47

-2start out that I assume - here are the words
- my language, I was just finishing my paper.
*In what I have to say upon this bill I
propose to confine myself as far as possible
to the matters which have come under my
observation as Secretary of Mar. In respect
to the wider aspects of world conditions

which the bill is designed to meet, I
assume that you gentlemen have been fully
advised by the Secretary of State; and in
respect to the financial questions of credit,
security and international exchange which
may be involved in the transactions proposed

by the bill - covered by the bill - I assume
that you have been advised by the Secretary
of the Treasury." You see?

H.M.Jr:

Well, that's right.

S:

So I'm not going to go into those questions.
I'm going in to show the need of this
concentration of authority of the competing
various purchasing commissions and in the
interests of the United States, and in the

E.M.Jr:
S:

interest of speed particularly.
Well, there'll be no conflict because as I
say I'm going to keep purely on the financial.
Yes, I see. Well, I'm keeping purely on the
mechanics of production and procurement.

H.M.Jr:

O. K.

S:

All right.

H.M.J.:

I wish you luck.

S:

Same to you. When do you go on?

H.M.Jr:

After Hull, whenever that is. I'm going up

S:

Yes, I see. He went on at 10:00 didn't he?
Yes, but they say he was late getting started.

H.M.Jr:

there now in about five minutes.

48

-3S:

I see. You'll be through probably this

morning, won't you?
H.M.Jr:
S:

H.M.Jr:
S:

I will if they put me on.
Yes. Well, they've called for me at 2:00
o'clock.

But my own guess is that they'11 not get
through with Hull this morning.

Oh, you think he's going to take the full
morning probably.

H.M. Jr:

That's my guess, but we'll know.

S:

I know. They're having it in the Ways and

Means Room are they?
H.M.Jr:
S:

H.M.Jr:
S:

H.M.Jr:
S:

I don't know, Harry.

I think so, yes.
I don't know. My secretary has it.
Apparently Sol just missed the chance of

having a first-rate, full, 3-ring circus.
O. K. Well, I'll be seeing you later.
All right.

H.M.Jr:

Thank you.

S:

Thank you.

49
January 15, 1941

Copy of the questions to be asked the Secretary at the
Hearing before the Foreign Affairs Committee this morning

on the "Lease-Lend Bill (Aid to Britain).

1. Deer England have money to My American manufacturers

for the orders that she has already placed?

2. Deer England have any more orders she wants to place?

3. DEE the French collapse eat down the money that the
allies had planned to use for American war orders?
4. Have morth is the war costing England a day?

5. How is England raising this money?
6. Have fines the English tax burden c compare with ours?

7. Has England increased her tax rates to help pay for the
war?

8. How dires it happen that the British Empire has so little
reality cash left?

9. Supposing England is no longer able to get military
sunlies in this country, how long do you think she
will be able to continue fighting?

Treasury Department

Division of Monetary Research
Date 1-15-41

50

19

Mrs. Dotz

To:

The Secretary and I have a wager (a

bottle of Argentine wine as to the

number of questions that appear in
the appended document that he will
be asked during the course of the
bearings in both the House and the

Senate.

I stated that be would be asked at
least 50 of the enclosed, and he is
betting me that he will not.

MR. WHITE

Branch 2058 - Room 210

51

PROBABLE
- THE
- MISSING
-----A.

thatELLO
are the
foreign
- again of Great I
TOTAL
READ
she have
1. New does
such cash does England have - - - -

2. Does Supiret that include the each - gold of - British

3. New - gold dees the British Repire protest
yeart Meat that happens to all the British gold - a
4. New can's
much cash
and- gold
have Britain's Alliest England
borrow
of 100
5. Ism's and can't - England of the - 100 gold is British territory

6. Deem goldi England have other assets bosides 1 -

7. New ties
andabout
plantsBritish
in this holdings
constayt of United States 8. United that about States Committee securities and other Register - of

9. that
is
the
value
of
British
foreign
I
Bestern outside the United States and particularly is 10. Bee
such used
each,- gold
and other foreign assets Inc
England
alreadys
11. Dees about
have myeta.,
other valuable
accepted hasRegions
Mr. meal,
Mat about

is the Bestore

52

B. that is the probable sagnitude of the aid to Britain

and other countries to Bay Under we

1. New such is Britain currently buying is this country
2. How
much
of this is she is a position to pay for free
her own
resources?
3. Have you any idea have week England will want to buy is

the United States on credit during the next yeart
4. IeofBritain
unable to place any orders because
lack ofnow
fundst

5. Under the Lend-Lease Bill, will England pay for nonarmanent purchases herselft Is England able to pay
for all her purchases other than arranenta?
6. Do
you intend to land England the money to buy fare
supplases as well as arranental
7. Are lease going to be made only to England OF to
the Deminions and Allies as well?
8. my can't Canada produce more of England's needer
why docen't England borrow sere free Genada se

that also will have to berrow less fres ust

9. Now does England pay for her purchases from Canadat

10. Are Canadian purchases is this country going to be
handled in the same way as British purchases?

c. that
is the
likelihood of our being paid best and how
an 18
be domet
1. Have the British proposed any arthod of repayments

2. Do you anticipate that they will pay us back in the
- kinds of goods that we lead that
3. New do you propose that they will pay back the garden
hom that they have used - the shells that are
exploies, the planes that are wreaked, and the

- that are were cust

53

-34. After all, Mr. Secretary, ism't this going to be
an outright gift? thy not give 11 to them
5. will we vast repayment is kind after the var considering
se
Digi that our our areanent industry will be

6. If England pays us back is goods, what is the

United States Government going to do with the

goods?

(a) will
any of those goods be competitive
with our own output
(b) How will England be able to buy the
things she will need after the war if she
gives us the important part of her
exports?

7. will the goods they pay us back in have to pay
import dutiest who will pay the isport duties?
s. If England can pay as is goods which we vast,

why
can't she sell as the goods we want and pay
in seneyt

9. APC these lease going to bear any interest
10. Bee
easy years are they going to be given to pay
11 beakt
11. Supposing England loses, what chance have we then
of being paid back?

12. If England is se exhausted at the end of the var that
she
totalcannot
loss? pay. are we going to wipe 11 off as a

13. why do you think England is & good credit risk if
she been't paid back her last war deber

14. Box such does England owe us free the last wart
15. New
such
didvart
Engined over pay as on what she berroved
is the
last
16. Supposing England goes socialist, what accurance do
you have that they will pay back any of these debts?

...

- --I-and
for
is - . hand - to
3.

--- --- CART

x - - I - - - I of Seats future
- - - - into
somer -the land
.- asorthe=L.11. for

-. --- -- invoice as - - be added

a -HItems
- - - -towill
- a - Million
- - --- --- --Interest
reason
.
6 - - 12 - - - -

3

- - - you State as - is eming the

s

-- William
- - last- your
stand
a
has pass - - - would stand

- - about 875 Million & --- expects
-If-- Iwith
- ismother
- to
Million
a
. or $35 Million - Issue defense,

- - - inflation

.-------

a -- - - - - - - relating - to -

VAL

54

53

-511. Do you propose to change your tax program if this
bill goes through se as to get more taxes
12. What taxes would you recomend be increased

13. How
such of our Plant Expansion has England
financed?
14. Since we arehaving difficulties filling our our
orders for planes, tanks, etc., how are we going to
fill additional British orders for the same things?
15.

that would happen to the Security Market if England

tried to unload all her U. S. securities instead of

purchasing on credits extended by the U. S. Government

16. Could England get a fair price for her investments
here at a forced sale!

17. Couldn't the R. F. C. take these securities over and
held then for ambile!
13. Fouldn't 18 be better to have England leave her securities and investments as collateral against a leas than

to try to sell them a

19. Are you going to require the British to put up all
their U. S. securities or securities is other countries
as collateral for the less?

20. Are you going to take a a on her future production of rebber, tim, gold and other raw materials?

21. Bouldn't 11 be better for this country to take securities and investments which the British have rather
than gold)

22. Is there say reason why we shouldn't take over her
Argentine securities?

23. New many securities have the British sold already
24. Yes's we really be financing England's wart
25. You't American soldiers fellew American dollars!

26. will
this bill be is keeping with the spirit of the
Johnson Act?

56

.-27. If this leas is - in ktad, - lease, will -

still keep - of 28 in - of - If

you so, Mr. Secretary, - 4 you propose to fulles
the President's Instructions to gut she of the silly
dollar signt
26. Ism't this the beginning of barter trader
29. why not use the Fabilianties Pend to copyly many
for British
E. Are the British doing all the DEE to 247 for their needs
without borroving from 1. New such is the limited Kangés meaning is the

present -

2. How much have Signature and the other Demisions spent

in this -

3. New does 18 compare with what Britaia and beer

Demisions spent is the last -

4. New much of Register's actional 1 is being -

on the - New - w - will be dating - most

fiscal year!

5. If the British are really surious about want their

our reserves to - this - - do they not
sell us their System Benisphare -

6. Is England lawrencing her - transition to pay for
the was

7. New does the Bythick tax burden compare with a. What is Register buiges definess for the present
fiscal years

9. What is the Beitish - letter - have - - 18

increased during the 10. Does Regions have inflation -

11. will our aid to Segiant would infisities is Deginnal

12. Are all the lessee Destates white thats I

and
foreign - - emiliable for the efforts

57

-?13. APP britain's other Allies using their assets?
14. Love about the dellars which English individuals and
businesses have in this country why can't they be
wec
15.

Is inclant going to sell all her American securities

before the lend-lease plan goes into operation?

16. Is site gaing to sell all her breach plants in the

5. 5. before the land-lease plan goes into operation?

17.

any street they sold their securities and branch
plants are readily?

that steps are being taken to sake sure that the bill will
x efficiently and with a alaimus cost to the
laited States
1.

is there any financial reason why the powers granted

under the lead-lease bill should not be limited to

2 years

2. Is there any financial reason way a limit should not
be set or the amount of credit extended under the lend

I bill?

3.

If Inclame is going to be permitted to buy non-mar
goods, as well as armanents, what limit is going to
be set - such non-war purchases

4. s will determine the priority of American and English
seeta'

5. 1111 all the British Empire be able to buy whatever
roots they want under this bill?
6. Est steps are being taken to make sure that prices
are kept reasonable!

7.

If - are willing to lend goods and money to England,

will they extimus to expert to us all the goods they
- or will they use their experts for damping in
other countries in competition with American experts!

a. APO - going to fisease England's purchases in Latin
America as well as is the United States?

9. Mat assurance is there that England will get all she
eas free her our Empirel

Direct

58

January 15, 1941

The material contained in this mimeographed
attachment was the only prepared material the Secretary had when he appeared before House Foreign
Affairs Committee to testify on H.R. 1776 (LendLease Bill).
He had typewritten copies of pages
1 and 2 with him but left them with the Chairman.

59
Estimated Dollar Expenditures and Receipts of British Empire,
Excluiting Ornaña, from January 1, 1941 to January 1, 192.

(In Killions of U. S. Dollars)
Dollar Expenditures

A. U. I. payments to be made on total purchases

from the I. S.

1. Summ the be paid during 1941 on orders
placed before Jan. 1, 1941.

(In addition, $119 million will
fall flue after Jan. 1, 1942)

2. Imports from U. S. not purchased through
the British Purchasing Commission, largely III. private accounts.
3. Purchases by Empire countries (excluding
U.K. and Camada) from U. S. during 1941

1. Creamility imports.
2. Payments for shipping, tourist expenditure, interest payments, etc.

$1,274

250

$1,554

333
5

338

C. Purchases ity Empire Countries, excluding
Canada, from areas outside the U.S. requir-

ing grilli III dollars

1. Purchases by Empire countries (chiefly
U.S.) from areas outside the U.S. and
Canada requiring dollars.
2. Payments by Empire Countries (chiefly
T.E. to Canada and Newfoundland)

247
850

1,127
$3,019

Total dollar requirements for all transactions.
Dollar Receipts

A. Dollar receipts by U.K. from U.S.
$ 165
1. I.E. exports of merchandise to U.S.
2. Net ballambe from U. S. to U.K. cm
shipping, tourist expenditures,
15
interest payments, etc.
3. Dollar receipts by Empire countries (excluding Canada)
560
1. Committy exports
75
2. Australian gold exports to U.S.
480
3. South African exports of gold
C. Canadian ansistance to U.I.
Total dollar receipts by Empire countries,
excluding Canada

Total dollar deficit with countries other
than Canada during 1941.
Total dellar deficit with Canada during
1941
Total dollar deficit of British Empire,
excluding Ganada, during 1941.

Total receipts and deficit on operations
with all countries other than Canada
during ngt.

$ 180

1,115
250

$1,555

844
620

1,464
$3,019

60
CONFIDENTIAL

UNITED KINGDOM'S AVAILABLE DOLLAR EXCHANGE ASSETS

OE JANUARY 1, 1941

(In Millions)

$ 205

Gold in U. S. or en route
Official dollar balances

54

American securities - reported by British

616

as of January 6

Total liquid assets
Direct and other investments
Total dollar exchange assets

875

about

900

$ 1,775

The British Government has $33 million of gold scattered in

various parts of the world. Most of this gold, however, is in

areas from which it cannot be shipped quickly or safely to the

United States.

British banks, private persons and corporations have balances
in the United States of $305 million. The British Government
feels that these balances are at the minimum level necessary for
the continued conduct of business and are therefore not
available for use by the British Government.

Treasury Department,

Division of Monetary Research.

January 14, 1941.

61

Estimated Long-Term Foreign Investments of the United
Kingdom Outside the United States

The following estimates are based on a number of studies,
most of which were made by British economists before the outbreak
of var.

Most of the investments are in sterling securities; a large

part of the Canadian investment is in Camedian dollars, and some
of the other investments are is the respective domestic currencies.
However, for convenience of presentation, the estimated nominal
value of the investments has been converted into sterling.
The market values, where given, are calculated from current
market quotations of the securities. Since market quotations are
not available for a large part of the investment, no total market
value can be calculated.
Erem where estimates of market value have been made, they

have only a limited significance, for the future market or
collateral value will depend co the rapidity with which the
securities are liquidated, on the general course of the war, and
on many other unpredictable factors. Of course, the figures of
nominal value are of even more limited significance.
(Million Pounds)
Government

Hailways Other Total

In British Empire
Canada

Nominal
Market

Australia

Nominal
Market

(410)

New Zealand

Nominal

131

India

REPART

Nominal

British Africa Nominal
Malaya

Nominal

Other

Nominal

Total in British Nominal
Empire

75

167

219

481

3

75

503

(70)
425

:
1

14

146

300

1

250

550

168

1

250

438

75

84

(125)
(250)
6

31

1,125

191

356

2233

62

-2(Million Pounds)

Government Railways Other Total
In Latin America
Argentina

Nominal
Market

Brazil

Nominal
Market

(14)

(5)

(22)

Chile

Nominal

20

20

( 2)

65

( 5)

105

Bruguay

Nominal
Market

18

14

10

42

(21)

Mexico

Nominal
Market

Pera

Nominal
Market

Cuba

Nominal
Market

Venezuela

Nominal
Market

263

45

(32)

(52)

75

38

83

390

47

160

( 8)

(1)

(12)

38

90

44

173

23

28

( 4)

( 5)

( 2)

28

18

20

(17)

(17)

( 1)
6

( 1)
1

(2)
25
2

25

(2)

( 1)

N11

3

0.2

Colombia, Ecuador
Bolivia, Paraguay,
Central America Nominal

International Nominal
Total in Latin
America

Nominal

(41)

50
6

204

451

317

1002

In Asia
China

Nominal

200

Japan

Nominal

50

East Indies

Nominal

50

Philippines
Total Asia

Nominal

8

Metherlands

308

63

-3Nominal

250

In Other Areas 2/ Nominal

75

In Europe

Total U.K. Investments outside United
States - Nominal Value

3868

1/ Not shown separately.
2

Mainly Iran, Egypt, Iraq and Portuguese East Africa.

Treasury Department,

Division of Monetary Research.

January 14, 1941.

Sew Mergenthan's testinon
64
ABD LOAN LEASE HEARING

SECRETARY MORGENTHAN SUMMITTED A STATEMENT OF ESTIMATED DOLLAR

DIPOSITURES AND RECEIPTS OF THE BRITISH EMPIRE IN 1941 INDICATING

IT WOULD BE SHORT BY $1,464,000,000 OF THE AMOUNT NEEDED DURING

THE YEAR.

1/15--25351P
ADD LOAN LEASE HEARING

AS HORGENTHAN TOOK THE STATE HIS AIDES GAVE OUT a STATEMENT SHOWING

THE ESTIMATED DOLLAR - RECEIPTS OF THE BRITISH EMPIRE,
EXCLUSIVE OF CANADA, WHICH INDICATED TEAT $3,019,000,000 WOULD BE
KDD TO PAY FOR ORDERS IN THIS COUNTRY DURING THE CALENDAR YEAR, OF

WHICH $1,464,000,000 WAS LISTED AS THE *TOTAL DOLLAR DEFICIT OF THE
BRITISH DMPIRE, EXCLUDING CANADA, DURING 1941.°
THIS WAS FOLLOWED BY A STATEMENT MARKED *CONFIDENTIAL WHICH
SHOWED TEAT THE UNITED KINGDOM'S AVAILABLE DOLLAR EXCHANCE ASSETS

ON JAN. 1, 1941, AMOUNTED TO $1,775,000,000.
THE ASSETS WERE BROKEN DOWN AS FOLLOWS:

*COLD IN THE U. s. or EN BOSTE--$205,000,000.
OFFICIAL DOLLAR BALANCES--$54,000,000.

"MERICAN SECURITIES--RIPORTED - URITISE as OF JAN. 6--8616,000,000.
*(TOTAL LIQUID ASSETS $875,000,000.)

-

*DIRECT - OTHER INVESTMENTS.

ABOUT --8900,000,000.

TOTAL DOLLAR EXCHANGE ASSETS--31,775,000,000.

65

ADD LOAN LOCASE HEARING

A THIRD STATEMENT SUMMITTED BY BORGENTHAU LISTED ESTIMATED LONGTERM FOREIGN INVESTMENTS OF THE UNITED KINGDOM OUTSIDE THE UNITED

STATES AT 3,868,000,000 POUNDS STERLING.

1/15--25405P 20-0
IDD LOAN LEASE HEARING

IN RESPONSE TO A QUESTION WHETHER BRITAIN was IN A POSITION TO
PAY FOR ITS PERCHASES, HORGENTHAN SAID:

*THIS FINANCIAL PICTURE WHICH I'VE GIVEN YOU I'M SATISFIED WILL
PAY THIS YEAR FOR WHAT ALREADY EAS BEEN BOUGHT. WHEN IT COMES TO
FINDING THE DOLLARS TO PAY FOR ANYTHING LIKE WEAT THEY MAY NEED,

THEY JUST HAVEN'T GOT IT."
1/15--ES412P
ADD LOAN LEASE KEARING.

IN THE *CONFIDENTIAL STATEMENT OF THE UNITED KINGDOM'S AVAILABLE
DOLLAR EXCHANGE ASSETS on JAN. 1, 1941, IT WAS STATED:
*THE BRITISH GOVERNMENT HAS $33 MILLION or COLD SCATTERED IN
VARIOUS PARTS OF THE WORLD. NOST OF THIS COLD, RECEIVER, IS IN
ARIAS FROM WHICH IT CANNOT BE SHIPPED QUICKLY OR SAFELY TO THE
UNITED STATES.

*MITISH BANKS, PRIVATE PERSONS AND CORPORATIONS HAVE BALANCES

IN THE UNITED STATES OF $305,000,000. THE BRITISH GOVERNMENT FEELS
THAT THESE BALANCES ARE AT THE MININUM LEVEL NECESSARY FOR THE CONTINUED
CONDOCT OF BUSINESS AND ARE THEREFORE NOT AVAILABLE FOR USE BY THE
BRITISH GOVERNMENT."

A NOTATION REVEALED THAT THE FIGURES WERE FROM THE TREASURY'S
DIVISION OF MONETARY RESEARCH.

1/15--80422P C45TE198

66
ADD LOAN LEASE HEARING.

IN SUBMITTING THE LIST OF BRITISH ASSETS IN OTHER NATIONS, INCLUDING
SOUTH AMERICA, MORGENTHAN EXPEASIZED THAT THEY WERE IN STERLING, NOT
DOLLAR BALANCE, AND THAT THEIR LIQUID VALUE WOULD DEPEND UPON WORLD
CONDITIONS AT THE TIME THEY WERE CONVERTED TO DOLLARS, AND THE RATE
AT WHICH THEY WERE SOLD.

NE WAS ASKED IF THE FRENCH HAD ARMS COMMITMENTS HERE THAT THE

MITISH COULD TAKE OVER. MORGENTHAN ANSWERED THAT LAST JULY 1,
SHORTLY AFTER FRANCE FELL, THE BRITISH TOOK OVER THE EXISTING FRENCH
CONTRACTS.

*I NIGHT POINT OUT," HE SAID, "TEAT AT THAT TIME FRANCE HAD
DOLLAR BALANCES HERE THAT WERE ABOUT TWICE WHAT THE ENGLISH HAD.'

HI TOLD REP. HAMILTON FISH THAT THE BRITISH HAD PAID OUT AND TAKEN

DELIVERY BY JAN. 1 OF MATERIAL. FISH WANTED TO KNOW
HOW HUCK DOLLAR BALANCES - SECURITIES INCLUDING COLD THE BRITISH NIGHT
HAVE IN LONDON OR OTHER PARTS or ENCLAND, THAT NIGHT BE "TRANSFERRED
HERE FOR CREDIT."

"I HAVE LISTED HERE EVERYTHING THAT THE UNITED KINGDOM HAS,"
MORCENTHAN SAID.

*I AM ADVISED BY A STATEMENT OF THE FEDERAL RESERVE BOARD THAT

BRITAIN HAS HERE SOMETHING OVER $7,000,000,000," FISH SAID. NE
REFERRED TO THE LAST REPORT OF THE BOARD.
HORGENTHAU ANSWERED THAT THIS INCLUDED CENTRAL GOLD RESERVES OF THE

DOMINIONS AMOUNTING TO $2,735,000,000, ALSO DOLLAR BALANCES OF THE
DOMINIONS AMOUNTING TO SEVERAL BILLION.

*THESE FIGURES, as FAR AS I KNOW, ARE NOT IN COMFLICT," HK SAID,
POINTING OUT THAT THE RESERVE BOARD FIGURES WERE BASED on INFORMATION

AVAILABLE LAST AUGUST BEFORE THE *EATTLE OF BRITAIN BEGAN. "I HAVE
NO REASON TO BELIEVE THAT THESE FIGURES I HAVE GIVEN YOU ARE NOT
ACCURATE," MIRCENTHAN SAID.

1/15--50643P CASTER

67
ADD LOAN LEASE HEARING.

FISH ASKED MORGENTHAU UNETHER THE BILL WOULD GIVE THE PRESIDENT
POWER TO SEIZE FOREIGN SHIPS IN OUR PORTS AND GIVE THEM TO ANOTHER
COUNTRY.

"NO," SAID MORGENTHAU.
FISH ASKED WHETHER IT CONFERRED POWER TO ORDER THE CONVOY OF SHIPS.

"NY INTERPRETATION IS THAT IT DOESN'T GIVE WIN ANY POWER HE
DOESN'T HAVE," MORGENTHAU REPLIED.

*DOES IT AUTHORIZE NIM TO GIVE AWAY ANY PART OF THE NAVY?*
IN REPLY MORGENTHAU READ FISH THE LANGUAGE OF THE BILL AUTHORIZING

THE SALE, LOAN, OR "TRANSFER" OF DEFENSE ARTICLES. HE ALSO READ
THE SECTION WHICH DESCRIBES THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS FOR SUCH ACTION,

REQUIRING A DIRECT OR INDIRECT BENEFIT TO THE UNITED STATES.
"I WOULD NOT SAY NK COULD GIVE THEM AWAY," MORGENTHAU SAID.

"DOES THIS BILL CANCEL THE JOHNSON ACTT® FISH ASKED.

*IN THE TREASURY," SAID MORGENTHAU, *VE FEEL IT DOES NOT.
"DOES IT CANCEL THE NEUTRALITY ACTI

*IT DOES ALTER IT, YES, AS FAR AS THE CREDIT PROVISIONS ARE
CONCERNED."

WHEN FISH REFERRED TO THE AUTHORITY TO REFIT AND OUTFIT BELLIGERENT
SHIPS, MORGENTHAU SAID THERE WAS *MOTHING IN THE NEUTRALITY ACT IN

REGARD TO REFITTING A SHIP so I DON'T SEE THAT THIS CHANGES THAT."
"WOULD YOU OBJECT TO THE PLACING IN THE BILL OF A CEILING AS TO THE

AMOUNT--SAY $2,000,000.* FISH ASKED.
"I THINK THAT IS A MATTER FOR THE COMMITTEE TO DECIDE," MORCENTHAU

SAID. *I THINK THE SITUATION CHANGES so RAPIBLY THAT NOBODY I'VE
COME IN CONTACT WITH CAN SAY WEAT THE CEILING SHOULD BE, NOT ONLY AS
TO OUR OWN DEFENSE BUT AS TO OTHER COUNTRIES."

68
*DON'T YOU REALIZE," ASKED FISH, "THAT IT DOES NOT PUT ANY LIMIT
ON PUTTING INTO THE NAMBS OF ONE MAN POWER TO SPEND INITIMITED FIRISS
SEMIBODY WILL HAVE TO APPEAR BEFORE THE APPROPRIATIONS COMMITTEE,

MORGENTHAU REPLIER. - FIGURE IS KENTINED IN THE BILL BECAUSE IT
DOES NOT CARRY AM APPROPRIATION.

1/15--#6457P CASTER
ADD LOAN LEASE HEARING.

REP. CHARLES EATON ASKED MORCENTHAN TO CITE THE "COMPELLING REASONS

FOR THIS PARTICULAR BILL AT THIS PARTICULAR TIME."
MORGENTHAU CITED THE BRITISH FINANCIAL POSITION. *THEY NEED VAST
ARMAMENT IN THIS COUNTRY," NE SAID. *THIS IS THE ONLY PLACE THEY CAN
GET THEM. THEY HAVEN'T GOT THE DOLLAR EXCHANGE TO PAY FOR THEN."

HE SAID THE MITISH, GIVEN TO THE IND OF THE YEAR, WOULD BE IN A
POSITION TO PAY FOR ALL ORDERS THEY HAVE PLACED.
"WE'VE BEEN NEARING A GREAT NURRAN ABOUT GIVING THINGS TO

BRITAIN," EATON SAID, DAND UP TO NOW WE'VE BEEN MAKING HER PAY THROUGH

THE MOSE, HAVEN'T VE.
MORCENTHAU SAID THE ENGLISH HAD BEEN FORCED TO PAY CASH FOR
EVERYTHING.

"so, IF BRITAIN IS OUR FIRST LINE OF DEFENSE, WE HAVEN'T COVERED
OURSELVES WITH ANY PARTICULAR CLORY," EATON SAID.

"I AGREE WITH YOU," THE SECRETARY REPLID.
TINKHAM ASKED WHY BRITAIN SHOULDN'T SELL SOME OF ITS LISTED
SECURITIES.

MORGENTHAN REPLIED NK WAS NOT ATTEMPTING AND NAD NO AUTHORITY TO

SAY "WEAT BRITAIN SHOULD OR SHOULD NOT DO BUT ONLY WAS GIVING THE
COMMITTEE THE FINANCIAL PICTURE OF THE BRITISH EMPIRE.
CASTER

1/15--00505P

69
ADD LOAN LEASE HEARING.
TINKHAM ASKED IF MORGENTHAU WOULD AGREE TO AMENDMENTS REQUIRING

THE BRITISM TO PUT UP GOLD "TO SECURE THE AMERICAN TAXPAYER.

"I AM VERY SORRY TO SAY I HAVEN'T THE SAME CONFIDENCE IN THE
PRESIDENT YOU HAVE," TINKHAM SAID.

*IF YOU WILL PARDON NY SAYING so," MORCENTRAS SAID, "YOU ARE
PROBABLY IN THE NIMORITY."
REP. ROBER B. CHIPERFIELD WANTED TO KNOW THE FULL EXTENT OF
FINANCIAL COMMITMENT INVOLVED IN THE BILL. MORGENTHAU SAID NE WAS NOT
PREPARED TO SAY NOW HUCH MONEY WOULD BE REQUIRED TO CARRY OUT THE

POLICY INVOLVED IN THE BILL.
REP. JOHN M. VORYS TOLD MORGENTHAU NE WAS *FRANKLY AMAZEB* AT THE

SMALLNESS OF BRITISH RESOURCES. MORGENTHAU SAID NE HAD INCLUDED IN
HIS FIGURES "EVERYTHING THE BRITISH GOVERNMENT CAN LAY ITS HANDS ON
TO PAY FOR VAR SUPPLIES.

MORGENTHAU ADMITTED THAT THE BILL WOULD MODIFY THX DEBI LIMIT
*TO THE EXTENT THAT THE PRESIDENT WILL HAVE TO BORROW FOR OUR OUN

DEFENSE AND TO CARRY OUT THE BILL. NE EXPLAINED HOWEVER THAT *IF

YOU PASS THIS BILL AS IT IS WRITTEN THE DEBT LIMIT WILL STAY JUST WHERE

IT IS.
1/15--V0523P CASTER
REP. JOHN M. VORYS, AFTER HEARING SECRETARY MORGENTHAU PRESENT A

PICTURE OF GREAT BRITAIN'S IMABILITY TO PAY FOR FURTHER PURCHASES HERE,
DUBBED THE ARMS MEASURE THE *LED-LOSE BILL.

HE SAID HIS 12-YEAR-OLD see HAD COINED THE PHRASE.
/15--W0524P

70
ABD LOAN-LEASE HEARING.

IN RESPONSE TO QUESTIONS BY MUNDT, THE SECRETARY SAID "THERE IS
VIRTUALLY NO COLD LEFT IN ENGLAND EXCEPT AS IT BELOWES TO OTHER

COUNTRIES." HE SAID WHATEVER WAS LEFT WAS "INCLUDED IN TWO ITEMS

$205,000,000 COLD IN THE U. s. on EMBOUTE, AND $33,000,000 GOLD
SCATTERED IN VARIOUS PARTS or THE WORLD."
.I DON'T BLANE YOU FOR ASKING THE QUESTION," MARGENTHAU SAID.

*THE FIGURE IS ALWOST INSELIEVABLY LOV.
HUNDT ASKED IF A *CEILING* OR LIMIT TO THE AUTHORIZATION SHOULD BE
WRITTEN INTO THE BILL.
HORGENTHAU SAID NE HAD LEARNED *NOT TO ATTEMPT TO ADVISE A
LEGISLATOR ABOUT HIS BUSINESS," AND THAT WAS FOR CONGRESS TO DETERMINE.

ASKED BY REP. BARTEL J. JOHNSH NETHER THE BILL CARRIER THE
IMPLIED POWER TO DELIVER DEFENSE ARTICLES IN AMERICAN SHIPS,
MORGENTHAU SAID:

"NY COUNSEL SAYS m.
JONKMAN ASKED MIN WHETHER THERE WAS NOT IMPLIED POWER TO "SELL,

EXCHANGE OR TRANSFER ANYTHING PRODUCED WITH THE $17,000,000,000
ALREADY APPROPRIATED FOR NATIONAL DEFENSE.

AFTER CONSULTATION WITH HIS AIDES MORGENTHAU REPLIED:

IN THE TREASURY DEPARTMENT'S OPINION THE ANSWER IS YES.
INCLUDING WARSHIPST ASKED JOHKMAN.

THAT'S OUR OPINION,* HORGENTHAU SAID. *OTHER DEPARTMENTS MAY DIFFER

WITH US.
FISH ASKED IF THE STABILIZATION FUND HAD BEEN USED TO EXTEND
CREDITS TO BELLIGERENTS. IT HAS NOT BEEN USED, NORGENTHAU SAID, WITH
THE EXCEPTION OF LOANS TO ARGENTINA AND CHIMA. THESE LOANS WERE
NEGOTIATED ONLY AFTER THE MATTER WAS TAKEN UP WITH THE HOUSE AND SENATE
BANKING AND CURRENCY COMMITTEES AND *THEY GAVE US A VOTE OF CONFIDENCE.

71

FISH ANNOUNCED THAT THE FOLLOWING PERSONS HAVE ACCEPTED HIS

INVITATION TO TESTIFY JAN. 21 AND 22:
WENDELL WILLKIE, JOSEPH KENNEDY, MANFORD MACHIBER, NORMAN THOMAS,

WILLIAM J. GRACE, CHAIRMAN, CITIZENS KEEP AMERICA OUT OF WAR COMMITTEE,
CHICAGO; GERALD L. K. SMITH, NATIONAL CHAIRMAN OF THE COMMITTEE OF ONE
MILLION, DETROIT; VERNE MARSHALL, CHAIRMAN OF THE NO FOREIGN WARS
COMMITTEE; AND HUGH S. JOHNSON.

1/15--V0602P CASTER
ADD LOAN-LEASE NEARING.

IN RESPONSE TO A QUESTION FROM BLOON, MORGENTHAU SAID THE WAR IS

COSTING BRITAIN 12 MILLION POUNDS A DAY, or WHICH ABOUT FIVE MILLION, OR
ABOUT 40 PER CENT, IS RAISED THROUGH TAXES AND THE REMAINDER BY
BORROWING.

WHEN BLOOM ASKED FOR A COMPARISON OF BRITISH AND AMERICAN TAXES,

MORGENTHAU SAID "THIS IS GOING TO BE A SHOCK TO SOME or YOU. NE
READ OFF A COMPARATIVE LIST OF FIGURES SHOWING THAT IN ENGLAND A

MAN WITH A $5,000 INCOME WOULD PAY $1,496 IN TAXES COMPARED TO $75 IN
THE UNITED STATES, AND so ON UP TO THE MAN WITH A $100,000
INCOME WHO IN ENGLAND WOULD PAY $76,000 AND IN THE U. S. $43,000.
1/15--V0605P CASTER

72
COMMENT ON SECRETARY MORGENTHAU
WJSV

6:00

January 15, 1941.
Bob Trout:

Secretary's financial statement was that Great Britain
has not nearly enough dollars to pay for anything like they
might need. Great Britain will be nearly & billion and one
half short of that amount.
Edwin C. Hill:

No comment in regard to Secretary Morzenthau. All
comment was in regard to Secretary Hull's speech.
10:30
News

Secretary Morgenthau's testimony on Britain's financial
set-up disclosed the following findings:

That Britain will be able to pay cash for three billion
dollars' worth of war material ordered BUT when it comes to

finding the dollars for anything like what they may need,
they just haven't got it. Morgenthau's statement also above
that the United States is the only country where Britain can
get enough war material to continue fighting.

Great Britain faces a financial dilemsa which only
President Roosevelt's lend bill can prevent.
-00000-

73
COMMENT ON SECRETARY MORGENTHAU
WJSV

6:00

January 15, 1941.
Bob Trout:

Secretary's financial statement was that Great Britain
has not nearly enough dollars to pay for anything like they

might need. Great Britain will be nearly a billion and one
half short of that amount.
Edwin C. Hill:
No comment in regard to Secretary Morgenthau. All
comment was in regard to Secretary Hull's speech.
10:30
News

Secretary Morgenthan's testimony on Britain's financial

set-up disclosed the following findings:

That Britain will be able to pay cash for three billion
dollars' worth of war material ordered BUT when it comes to

finding the dollars for anything like what they may need,
they just haven't got it. Morgenthau's statement also shows
that the United States is the only country where Britain can
get enough war material to continue fighting.

Great Britisa faces a financial dileans which only
President Roosevelt's lend bill can prevent.
-00000-

74

Paul Sullivan, 6:30 P.N., KJST

Secretary Morgenthan, too, is in favor of passage of the bill
to aid Britain. Ca the basis of the financial statement be submitted,
be said that Britain would pay for everything bought, but that she
does not have enough dellars. She simply does not have enough for
big-scale purchases. Secretary Morgenthau said Great Britain already
had paid out $1,337,000,000 for United States supplies. She is paying
out or will pay out. be said, another sum of $1,393,000,000. He
also said that Great Britain has in the United States gold balances,
securities and investments amounting to $1,775,000,000, also that the

United States is is favor of helping Great Britain.
John Kennedy, EVAL, 9:30 P.M.

Secretary Morgenthan reported today that Great Britain is about
broke, and are going to do the same as the people in the book of
Oliver Twist, ask for more. At least 50 percent of their War Debt
is paid but France and Germany passed the debt up entirely.

WJST, 8:55 P.M.

Secretary Morgentham stated today that he was satisfied that
Britain could pay for the planes and supplies she already has ordered,

but that when it comes to paying with dollars, Britain does not have
them. He submitted a balance sheet of British assets.

75
January 15, 1941

Falton Lewis, Jr., WOL. 7:00 P.M.

There was no nalice in what Mr. Hull said today in support of the
President's program. He made it rather clear that he considers that
circumstances and events make it necessary to go into a program of this
kind at this time, a program which involves a revolutionary departure
from American tradition of the past. But Mr. Hull said today that
the situation is unlike any we have ever faced in the past; therefore,
it requires more drastic action than we have ever taken in the past.
Be said the only reason Germany has been unable to cross the
English Channel and invade the islands is because those waters are

still under control of the British Navy and that we must have complete

cont : of the high seas at all times. According to Mr. Hull, if we

lose control, Germany may be able to make a direct attack on the
Western Hemisphere.

For a Secretary of State, Mr. Hull used some very blunt and simple

language today. He left the soft gloves of diplomatic language in his

Besk at the State Department today. He read his six and one-half page
statement and naturally it had been carefully edited in advance and been
approved by the White House. He went into the historical background of
the present war and he named names--he called Germany, Germany, Italy,

Italy and Japan, Japan. He said this Government has tried, on numerous

occasions, to convince Japan that the only wise course for it to follow
was the course of fair treatment with equal rights to all nations invelved. Be said Japan had, time after time, disregarded the rights of
the United States and other Governments in the Far East, and the official
Japanese Government had openly declared its intention was the exclusive

domination of the Far East. The next step he said was Italy's seizure
of Ethiopia and Albania. He said the Kitler Government had steadily
followed a course of making promises and breaking them. He said her

course was to make even greater demands the moment earlier demands have

been met. Ee said there is no hope of a peace understanding because
there is no hope of a guarantee or way of getting one, that the Axis
powers will live up to the agreement they make.

He said that this legislation to aid Britain is absolutely neces-

sary: he knows of no other legislation that will accomplish these ob-

jectives and he considered this bill to be necessary itself. Mrs. Edith

Sourse Rogers asked Hull if he objected to the committee calling in
former A bassadore Wilson, Bullitt and Kennedy. He said the decision

is is their hands, if they wish to testify, and the only restriction

would be that they could not divulge diplomatic, confidential informtion. Otherwise they could say what they wanted to say.
There has been a rather peculiar situation developing in the Foreign
Affairs Committee. It seems that the Ranking Republican on that committee
is Representative Hamilton Fish, of New York. He has given out a list
of witnesses who, he says, will appear before the committee next week,
including the names of Mr. Vendell Willkie and various other people.

-2 -

76

And Chairman Bloom says it's all news to him. be usual rule of
procedure is for the Chairman to decide who the witnesses should be
and when called. Mr. Fish has no more power than anybody else on the
committee so his witnesses may or may not

Secretary Morgenthau remained on the stand until nearly six o'clock

tonight. Secretary Hull was, incidentally, all alone when he testified.

He eat on the chair in the Ways and Meens TERM and answered all questions

himself. Mr. Morgenthau, on the contrary, was flanked with advisers
on both sides and every time a question was suited be would whisper

to them, get advice, confer with them before answering Mr. Morgenthau
said the war is costing Great Britain about $61,000,000 a day. which the
British Government is paying $40,000,000 by taxation and borrowing the
other $30,000,000. He said the British have sufficient cash available
to pay for the war another year to come. smilable DT in prospect, but
after that time their cash will be exhausted. Be BRID the British had
about $3,000,000,000 in the United States in convertible assets at the
opening of the war. that is, securities and assets easily turned into
cash. He said they had already spent $1, 300,000,300 in this country on
materials already purchased and had had shipped to them, and that they
had placed orders for additional materials amounting to about another
$1,300,000,000. That makes $2,600,000,000 of the $3 billion already
gone and so he said that British funds in this country are just about
exhausted. He said taxation in Great Britain at the present time is
staggering--that the average man in the street, the average workerthe income tax charged him is approximately ten times the income tax
that is charged in this country.
Perhaps the most important statement by Mr. Morgent ham today was

one of policy. One member observed that Great Britain is still getting

tremendous gold reserves out of Africa and the member asked Mr. Morgenthan

whether that gold shoul be shipped to the United States in part payment,
at least, for the materials we provide in the future. Mr. Morgenthan
said he does think so: in fact. he said Great Britain should do everything in her power to make part payment for the materials we supply.
In connection with Mr. Hull's statement about maintaining control
over the high seas there was one highlight that Eight interest you. An
Admiral testified before the committee and saled for money for mosquite
craft, ranging from 70 to 120 feet long. built in speedboat design, and
depending on speed for defense.

Thomas - W.M.A.L., 6:45 p.m., 1/15/41.

77

Secretary of State Hull VSE having an interesting time with the
Foreign Affairs Committee today. He said Germany can easily

cross the Atlantic if Britain is defeated.
He was asked if he considered the aid to Britain bill absolutely
necessary to our national defense. He replied that he had been
unwillingly compelled to believe that it is. He said that it is
not a violation of the Johnson Act. He admitted that that bill
is in violation of the Eague Conference but explained it would
not apply in the present war. Germany and Italy are not parties
to that Convention and Germany and Italy --have paid no attention
to such principles of international law.
Hull said it is ideal for us to rely on the rules and principles

of neutrality for safety but that the German program 18 one
of world-movement and the only course for us to follow is to
aid Britain and be used these words: "I cannot in good conscience
advise my fellows to follow the course of Holland and Belgium'.

Appeasement - Hill ridiculed the idea that German, Italy or
Japan could be appeased.

Representative Fish disagreed with the idea that Germany could

80 easily cross the Atlantic.
Representative Tinkhan said passage of the bill would set up
$ dictatorship.
Representative Bloom came to Hull's rescue and rebuked the
Representative from Massachusetts (Tinkham).
Tinkham then wanted to know if we would rush to the help of

Russia if the need arose. Hull answered that the question was
too theoretical for answer.
Tinkham asked if we had abandoned all neutrality. Hull answered
no. but that the law of self-preservation had begun to assert

itself.

One point made by Congressman Tinkham was that the war aid bill

would give the President the power to create an act of war.
Hull answered that the President

Secretary of the Treasury Morgenthau followed Secretary Hull
and showed the Congress statements of Great Britain's financial
standing, showing that the British would be unable to pay words

for war orders placed in the U.S. this year. In other
the British will be short about $1,664 million.

W.R.C., 7:45 p.m., following foreign news:

78

Washington:

The Administration told the story today why the President
has asked for unlimited aid order.
There was laid before the Congressional Committee on Foreign

Affairs, by two Cabinet Officers who have the inside on the
story - Morgenthau and Hull - information which has come to
them concerning the financial standing of the British.

Hull, Secretary of State, of course, did not deal in dollars.
Hull's main argument was propounded in the question as to whether

control of the high seas shall pass into the hands of aggressor
powers. He said Germany could easily cross the Atlantic if

Britain is defeated. Neutrality offers no protection for any
man now. He thinks guns are safer.

N.O.L., 9:00 p.m., Heatter.
Wednesday, January 15, will occupy a permanent page in American

history in years to come. -- Some will certainly say that
January 15th Secretary of State Hull virtually proclaimed a
new policy for America. He said that the old law of self
preservation has begun to assert itself. In years to come
Americans will read about Bill 1776, a bill in behalf of

American safety. Hull said passage of the measure would not

mean dictatorship. Mr. Hull spoke quietly: "I must be frank, in my opinion there is
danger. Peace or war for America, no man can say."
There are 3 groups in Congress tonight:
Wheeler group, who say if you vote for Bill 1776 you vote to

kill the Johnson Act, to kill neutrality, to move transports
and convoys.-

Men who say very frankly that ensuring victory for England would
mean war

The 3 groups in Washington might be characterized as the
group still on the fence. They want amendments, they don't
want Congress to dosanything opposed by the Constitution They don't want to give Roosevelt extraordinary powers.

Some say that we should help England to insure Hitler's defeat,
and will guarantee it will keep America out of war.
Some men on the fence ask what kind of British are we underwriting
aid for? They have heard of a socialist England. Some men in
Washington wonder if it means out and out socialism. Churchill
knew that question would come up, he picked Halifax for Washington.

79
TREASURY DEPARTMENT
INTER OFFICE COMIMUNCTEONN

DATE January 15, 1940
Secretary Morgenthan

Foley, Jr.

I

is you suggested, I had Mr. tall to Senator

Chairman of the Temporary Tetimal Economic Committee,

- bank holding company legislation and the possibility

Le and his Committee might be able to give some support to

bill.

The Sensitor took the position that the President's monopoly
message excluded the bank helding company uruillem from the scope of
Temporary National Economic Committee investigations, inasmuch as

it urgel the immediate emactment of banic inviting company legislation

for POLICIES well set out in the message itself. ite also felt that
the bill, unce introduced, would be I eferret to the Banking and
Committe and that it reuli then become E legislative
into which the Temporary Istimal Immomin Committee could

itself only with doubtful program He further pointed

that TECC errires on April 1 of this per and was extended
that date only for the purpose of giving the Committee ad-

time to prepare a inalreport. although no final

decision has been made, it is not expectat that any more hearings

will be held, but rather that the remaining period of life of
the Committee will be taken = with the prepared on of its report
to Congress.

of the

The Senstor did indicate that he HELL personally in favor
objectives of bank holding company Legislation and, without

himself to any particular Para of hill2 indicated that
be would be inclined to support such legislation "unless it con-

tained something of which he inst nothing and to which he would
object.

Sith

80

Secretary Morgenthan

E. H. Foley, Jr.

JAN 15 1941

As you suggested, I had Mr. O'Connell talk to Senator
O'Mancy Chairman of the Temporary National Economic Committee,

about our bank holding company legislation and the possibility
that he and his Committee might be able to give some support to
the bill.

The Senator took the position that the President's monopoly
message excluded the bank holding company problem from the scope of
the Temporary National Economic Committee investigations, inasmuch as
it urged the immediate enactment of bank holding company legislation

for reasons well set out in the message itself. He also felt that

the bill, once introduced, would be referred to the Banking and
Currency Committe and that it would then become a legislative

matter into which the Temporary National Economic Committee could

inject itself only with doubtful propriety. He further pointed

out that TNEC expires on April 1 of this year and was extended
to that date only for the purpose of giving the Committee ad-

ditional time to prepare a finalreport. Although no final

decision has been made, it is not expected that any more hearings

will be held, but rather that the remaining period of life of

the Committee will be taken up with the preparation of its report

to Congress.

The Senator did indicate that he was personally in favor
of the objectives of bank holding company legislation and, without

committing himself to any particular form of bill, indicated that
he would be inclined to support such legislation unless it contained something of which he know nothing and to which he would
object.
(Initialed) B. H. F., Jr.

330'C/Law

1/14'41

St
GRAY
GMW

Saigen

For m

Dated January 15, ISCE

Eac'd 9045 is. Jan Secretary of State,
Washington.

3. January 15, 11 a.m.

A new customs tariff became effective in Info China - of I Inte
Duties are wholly (1) ranging from 500 to 130% minimum - goods from -

countries including France. General rates are three the address

Free and prohibited products are subsidiary as before as - the cations though less subdivided. The internal consumtion tax mails =
effect. On the basis of prices in Indochine minimum value will for merchandise below which ismorts will not be assessed.

Goods which left their country of origin before Nomber 30 - consummated under the old or new tariff.

Temporarily the minimum dutyon trucks is 256, automabile are iron steel and medicines are free.

The American trade agreement resains effective the - date
replacing the former and the intermediate being completed

Tariff and covering despatch following by oriinary still stagile -

will be sent air mail if desired. Sent to Cavita for repatition = the
Department. Hong Kong, Shanghai, Trade Commissioner
FLOOD
WSB

Cory:bj

82

- 15 1941

n - a. -

- - submit to you have
for
a
of
transitions
territiving / of a free the United

II w
- -- -- -- -I to

States to - late-this - to Discover parts.
an of - application - for licenses to be

-- - - Sa - -

Declared
I
is
.
- - - Insurance - Subjecting
-of
- -of/ -- -- Institution
- state - quality
of - n with to 1 or Mile Separate

is of - / with sugar to the several

- way -

Signature is w. -

-- --of -

- Supporting of the

- Male

83

1. the following applications seek to Survey december to the Designe do
1'Inteshine, and to effect payment w debiting the free account of the

do 1'Intechine with the French learless Smoking Corporation for to
the destinations influented
AND

Application In
NY 78724

Value

Destination

$ 650.00

Into-thins

fire tubes and old
butterics

4,451.00

Into-this

96 - -

1,800.00

Into-thin

800.00

late-thin

8,000.00

Into-this

10,000.00

Into-thin

Committee

Plates and tools for

machines to work leather
skins

BY 19746

NY 81999
NY SEPUT

NY 86499

-

Steel Files

1,000 - plates
7,000 Kilee -

'evertopes checkmar a
air

NY 90018

a realing with

NY 90018

100-tea I Joint

4,000.00

Into-thin

NY 93.991

Classi silting eresities,
otherw busilies stirrers

1,200.00

Into-thins

NY 91991

1 extensite dining making 4,000.00

NY 91886

Trustee wheels -

steel press

1,000.00

agriage
NY 91000

Seating medical ml
equipment

140.00

Into-thin

E-

n

-

84

.3.
Value

Institution

$ 6,100.00

late-thin

1,686.00

Into-Skin

$ rellers for cala

10,000.00

Into-thins

==-

- tess of sise should

16,000.00

late-this

- stool have

40,000.00

= BEST

- take steal have

-III -

Ingut - Sublice

for - tages

-- -- wating
erine
with
destric
- status
Moving with fund all

- 6 pressed stool

pote

- grature

3,969.00

--

- - Issue

= 86330

Redites wire -

$1,000.00

= 99404

- tess of pie tree

11,600.00

E 966

se test of breas

$6,150.00

s--

9,000.00

steel for tooks

about I

-

late-this

take-this

have

CHICAGO

- THEIR

--

2,686 1 of

response - -

2,000 persons of

900.00

Sale-Skins

-

.1.

.-

False

Invoice

NY TOPES

N almo

85

of

Institution
Registration

1,046.00

Sale-this

Polansies

NY 82796

125 Files of

890.00

Tate-this

BY 91506

so teas esignate

695.00

Into-this

of alustas

-

BY 93620

so teas -

NY 95382

150 cylinters

6,200.00

Shanghai, Chine

NY 96989

Salpher

1,900.00

Into-Skin

NY 96000

Pharmacoutis

7,750.00

Into-thin

685.00

Into-thin

outplas

liquid chlorine

protests

1,989.00

BY -

Misride of

NY 82799

Bottle tubes

3,199.00

Into-Side

NY 81999

Ballo costing

sets and -

1,989.00

Into-Side

NY SHIP

s teas hope

6,700.00

Into-this

BY 1000

$ teas Santy

5,669,00

late-this

sagnosis

Oralas

BY seas

10,000,000

(tea million)

12,000

Sale-this

boothe eape

11. - following applications seek w debit the Medical account of the
I do 1'Intechine, Salgon, with the Beak of California, San Pressions,
in payment of shipments from the United States to French Sale-Shim as intenteds

I

M

6

-

8 ama

a my

se dress -

as 2719

$ team of sise

SF 2919

18 team of devices

as 2725

Ballo parts -

sale

MAIN

cheete

extract

1,000.00

I

1,000,00

accounties

I

1,300.00

Spare parts for
tracters

SF 2726

I-I-

-

85

I

III. The following applications - to dates the - District the
shipments as inficients
Amplication No.
NY 80441

the Meeted -

w
the Bothlaben Street

of Mr. Transite

Take

-1
SLIN
of - plates

Expert
NY 80939

the Mestred of Mr. Francis

with

29,995 1
of sheal -

1,999

Sang -

I-

the Bothlishes 1
inport Corporation

NY 83174

The Meeted - 100 LOUS -

of the Olivia Professo of Health
Corporation with the

NY -

leving trust -

- Mested ---of Date - mm Origin).
12 bN
Balan -The Research Date 1
I'Manager (leteress

Idd. - -

BECEIVED

87

EMERAPHRASE OF TELEGRAM RECEIVED

WHONE American Legation, Belgrade, Yugoslavia

IMATE January 15, 1941, 5 p.m.

NO.: PP
Reference is made to telegram of January 6, 10 p.m.,
10. R from the Department, and telegram of January 14, 9 p.m.,
mm 7 firm the Department.

Tribe morning it was informed orally by the Finance
of Eugoslavia that the National Bank is interested

= guardine If from the Bank for International Settlements
5000 difference of gold. This transaction, he assured me,
- namely for the purpose of liquidating Yugoslav obligations
- title United States, and was not for the benefit of the
Terminal Government or any other foreign government. It is,

the other words, just a bookkeeping transaction, due to
the imiditity of the Government of Yugoslavia to transfer
gold tax the United States because of physical reasons.
LANE.

88
PLAIN
JR

London

Dated January 15, 1941
REC'd 9:36 c.m.

Secretary of State,
Washington.

150, 15th.
FOR TREASURY.

By way of encouraging the investment of non-residents'

sterling funds in British securities the Bank of England
announces that any non-resident having sterling in the

United Kingdom and wishing to invest it in registered or

inscribed sterling securities here will at the time of
his purch SE be given c form (form m) which will constitute

: license to sell thos securities on any British Stock
Exchange. Hitherto permission to sell such stocks hrs
rarely been given to non-residents since the restrictions
on security sales were imposed CS reported in the

Embrassy's No. 1525 of June 6: The license will be valid

for on indefinite period. only the SOME type of sterling
will be credited to a non-resident selling the securities
0.8 he originally used for their purchase. The arrongement
does not (repeat not) apply to blocked sterling accounts
CS described in the Embassy's telegrams Nos. 3816 and 3830

of November 22 and 23. The inducement to invest is
regarded

89

-2- #150, Jenuary 15, from London.

regreded ns fortified by the fact that whereas non-residents
may not withdraw capital EXCEPT in certain circumstances,

interest on securities held here may be remitted as
noted in the Embrssy's telegram No. 1525 of June 6.
JOHNSON
HPD