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DIARY

Book 240

February 7 - 13, 1940

-ABook Page
Afghanistan

See Gold
American Metal Company

See Silver
Appointments and Resignations
Kemp, Edward G.)

Kitchin, Mills )

Sullivan tells Doughton HMJr has forwarded
recommendations to Justice as members of
Court of Customs, New York - 2/7/40

240

West, Charles:
Appointment to Processing Tax Board of Review

discussed at 9:30 meeting - 2/8/40

41

141

Associated Gas and Electric Company
Hanes, John W.:

Ickes talks to HMJr (in Tucson); states that Frank
will oppose Hanes in open court if he does not
withdraw - 2/9/40

a) Ickes' telegram - 2/9/40

1) Telegrams between HMJr and Foley 2/9/40

HMJr and Foley discuss situation - 2/9/40

260

276

332,333,
334,394
264

Securities and Exchange Commission release in answer

to inquiry of United States District Judge

Vincent L. Leibell as to whether Commission would
accept trusteeship - 2/10/40
Krock (Arthur) article and Cohen (Ben) memorandum on

implications of article - 2/13/40

331
398

-BBell, Daniel W.
See Fiscal Organization (Treasury)
Business Conditions
Noble (Commerce Department) provides report - 2/8/40
New York Times index and business reports of Division of
Research and Statistics: discrepancies discussed 2/12/40

177

369

-cChina

See also War Conditions

Transportation: Keeshin reports - 2/7/40
Climax Molybdenum Company

See War Conditions: Strategic Materials
Closing Agreements
See War Conditions
Cohen, Ben

See Associated Gas and Electric Company: Hanes, John W.
Colombia

See Latin America

81,125,
129,287

-DDewey, Thomas E. (Republican nominee for President, 1940)
See Financing, Government
Diamonds (Industrial)

Book Page

See War Conditions

-FFarben (I. G.) stock
See War Conditions: Germany
Financing, Government

Banking service requirements of Federal Government
and proposed adjustment: memorandum from HMJr to FDR 2/8/40

a) Discussed by HMJr and Bell - 2/8/40

240

b) Proposed release
Dewey, Thomas E. (Republican nominee for President, 1940):
Government debt statement discussed by HMJr and Bell 2/8/40

123
199
222

191

a) Haas memorandum

207

Receipts and expenditures (future) reviewed by Bell
and HMJr - 2/8/40

a) Permanent fiscal organization within the

Treasury discussed
FDR's memorandum: "No new financing even to be discussed

with banks during FDR's absence" - 2/10/40
Finland
See War Conditions
Fiscal Organization (Treasury)
Permanent set-up discussed by HMJr and Bell - 2/8/40
France

192
196
339

196

See War Conditions

-G-

General Counsel, Office of

Projects during January - 2/12/40

Germany

349

See War Conditions

Gold

See also War Conditions: U.S.S.R.
Afghanistan: Possible purchases by National Bank 2/9/40

239,414

Great Britain
See War Conditions

-HHanes, John W.

See Associated Gas and Electric Company

Hercules Powder Company

See War Conditions: Closing Agreements

-JBook

Page

240

343

Japan

See War Conditions

-KKemp, Edward G.

See Appointments and Resignations

Kitchin, Mills

See Appointments and Resignations

-LLatin America

Brazil:

Aranha's attitude reported by American Embassy,

Rio de Janeiro - 2/12/40

Colombia:

Exchange of correspondence between Turbay
(Colombian Ambassador) and HMJr relative to

acceptance of agreement reached with Foreign

Bondholders Protective Council - 2/7/40

a) Copy acknowledged by Jones - 2/9/40
Activity in bonds discussed by HMJr and Welles 2/8/40

Proposal for permanent settlement under direct

dollar debt - 2/8/40

90,105,106,
255,396
241

133,165
157

a) Conference to discuss; present: HMJr, Bell,
and Cotton

b) HMJr, Bell, and Cotton discuss further 2/8/40

158
203

c) Traphagen's letter - 2/7/40

220

-MMexico

See Silver

-NNorway

See War Conditions

-PPurchasing, Government

Interdepartmental Committee for purchase of military
and naval supplies, et cetera:
Wilson Packing Company letter concerning pork
and lard export trade with United Kingdom

referred to HMJr by Wallace - 2/8/40
a) Shipping problem discussed in
Harris memorandum - 2/13/40

149
406

-RBook

Page

240

41

Reorganization

See Fiscal Organization (Treasury)

Revenue Revision

Doughton tells Sullivan agreement on any new tax
program must be reached by FDR, HMJr, Harrison,

and himself before introduction - 2/7/40
-S-

Silver
American Metal Company endeavoring to have an amendment

contained in Townsend Bill to repeal 50% tax on

transfers of silver bullion - 2/13/40

Mexico: American Ambassador reports situation as result
of reports of action by Senate Sub-Finance Committee
suspending purchases of silver - 2/9/40
Townsend Bill:
Cochran memorandum on conversation with Livesey
(State Department): "Nervousness about possible change

in silver price and purchasing policy" - 2/12/40

Discussed by Bell and Wagner - 2/13/40

Bell and Barkley - 2/13/40

403

242,340,386,
408,412

389
415

417

"

"

Spain

Needs discussed between Cochran and Carter (partner in
Paris branch of Morgan and Company) - 2/7/40
Needs discussed by Spanish Ambassador, Cochran, Bell,
and Welles - 2/12/40
Surplus Commodities
Wheat Export Sales: Haas memorandum - 2/8/40

88

388
161

-T Taxation
See Revenue Revision

-UU.S.S.R.

See War Conditions

-WWar Conditions
Airplanes:

Lubin to do some investigatory work; HMJr asks Budget
Bureau to release $10,000; FDR's OK to be sent over 2/7/40

a) Budget Bureau notifies HiMJr approval - 2/10/40..

42

286

Machine Tools:

Conference concerning progress; present: HMJr, Purvis,
Bloch-Laine, Bell, Collins, and Cochran - 2/7/40
Conference with representatives of manufacturers, Lubin,

Collins, et cetera - 2/7/40
a) Collins' progress report - 2/8/40

50

70

155

Employment Figures: Civil Aeronautics Authority--

Lubin discussion concerning availability of figures 2/8/40

156

- W - (Continued)
Book

War Conditions (Continued)

Page

China:

Jones and HMJr discuss further loan of $20 million 2/7/40

240

a) Correspondence with Chen concerning
developments - 2/7/40

b) Chen confers with Cochran - 2/8/40

Delivery of aircraft materials (600,000 American
dollars) reported at Rangoon - 2/8/40
Tung Oil, Exports of: Report of American Consulate,
Yunnanfu - 2/12/40

1

77

175
227
391

Closing Agreements:
Hercules Powder Company: Closing agreement based on

settlement in future discussed by HMJr, Sullivan,
Purvis, Bloch-Laine, and Ballantyne - 2/7/40
Diamonds (Industrial):
HMJr tells Purvis and Bloch-Laine contemplated action

is too risky - 2/7/40

Exchange market resume - 2/8/40, et cetera
Finland:

10

10

172,243,
341,409

American Embassy, Paris, reports on conditions 2/12/40

382

France:

Financial resume given American Embassy, Paris,

by Penacchio (Bank of Italy) - 2/8/40

111

by Couve de Murville - 2/9/40

228

Financial resume given American Embassy, Paris,
Germany:

Federal Reserve Bank of New York asked by Reichsbank

to send mail in future to Banco Germanico de
La America del Sud, Mexico City, Mexico - 2/7/40

9

Reichsbank investments reported on by American Embassy,

Berlin - 2/7/40

108

Farben (I. G.) stock: Copy of prospectus being mailed
to German-Americans throughout the United States

transmitted to Securities and Exchange Commission 2/7/40

110-A

2/8/40

142

Great Britain:
Financial report by Kennedy: Newspapers report Treasury
received no copy; HMJr to ask Hull concerning Japan:

Export of heavy machinery from United States to Russia
and Japan - 2/8/40

121

Norway:

Airplane requirements discussed by Norwegian Minister
and Bell - 2/12/40

366

W - (Continued)
Book

Page

240

10

War Conditions (Continued)

Purchasing Mission (British-French)
Hercules Powder Company: Closing agreement based on

settlement in future discussed by HMJr, Sullivan,
Purvis, Bloch-Laine, and Ballantyne - 2/7/40
Interdepartmental Committee for purchase of military
and naval supplies, et cetera:
Wilson Packing Company letter concerning pork
and lard export trade with United Kingdom

referred to HMJr by Wallace - 2/8/40
a) Shipping problem discussed in
Harris memorandum - 2/13/40

Rist--Ashton-Gwatkin visit and difficulties thereof

149

406

discussed by Monnet in message to Purvis -

2/8/40
a) Copy of message

b) FDR tells HMJr "OK" - 2/8/40
Securities Markets (High-Grade):
Current Developments: Haas memorandum - 2/7/40
Shipping:

Situation reviewed in Harris memorandum - 2/13/40

114
116
163

7

406

Strategic Materials:

Climax Molybdenum Company: Shipments to Russia discussed

by Cochran - 2/7/49

87

U.S.S.R.:

Amtorg withdrawals reported by Vincent Astor to FDR
and then to HMJr - 2/8/40
Export of heavy machinery from United States to Russia
and Japan - 2/8/40
Manufacture of gun 165 feet long with an 18-inch bore:
Russian contract carrying an escape clause permitting
its sale to Army and Navy discussed by HMJr at
9:30 meeting - 2/8/40

117
121

145

a) Puleston told FDR is referring matter to

Munitions Board - 2/8/40
b) HMJr discusses talk with Rentschler concerning -

164

2/14/40: See Book 241, page 26
c) Edison (Navy) memorandum: "Navy has no need;

OK to ship to Russia" - 2/15/40: See Book 241, page 34
White memorandum: "Soviet Gold Production and Gold Holdings" 2/9/40

Memorandum to FDR on exports - 2/13/40
West, Charles

See Appointments and Resignations

248
283

1

February 7, 1940
4:40 p.m.

HMJr:

Jesse

Hello.

Jones:

Hello.

HMJr:

Hello, Jesse.

J:

Well, I got a little money -- it looks like we'll
give a little more money to China.

HMJr:

Are you? Good.

J:

I got them to -- I discussed it directly with the
Committee.

HMJr:

Good.

J:

And I got an amendment in the bill voted out. It
would let us go twenty million more.

HMJr:

Twenty million more?

J:

Yeah.

HMJr:

For China?

J:

Yeah. It would give us that much leeway

HMJr:

Oh.

if we wanted to do it.

J:

HMJr:

I see. That's swell.

J:

Huh?

HMJr:

I say that's swell!

J:

Well, I just WAS frank with the Committee about it.
Told them what we were -- what we were considering.
Not that we knew that -- we didn't know whether we
wanted to do it or not.

HMJr:

Yeah.

J:

But we -- what they wanted, and we were considering

it.

2

-2HMJr:

Well I think that's swell.

J:

And
theitCommittee
voted the bill out; no bad feeling
about
at all.

HMJr:

Good.

J:

There were some votes against it, I believe it was

12 to 6, but then the feeling -- all the -- all the
bitterness apparently hadn't gotten away and I was
before them three different times, two hours at a
time, so

HMJr:
J:

Well I congratulate you.

Well, I -- I'm -- I feel very happy about it and
all them -- all of them do.

HMJr:

Good.

J:

I mean, the entire Committee - Pittman and Barkley
and everybody. And I thought you'd be interested.

HMJr:

Well I am. I appreciate your calling me.
I had your letter about the

J:

HMJr:

Colombia.

J:

about the Colombia thing.

HMJr:

That's pretty good, isn't it?

J:

Yes it 18.

HMJr:

Yeah.

J:

Now, this gentleman went home and I saw him yesterday
afternoon.

HMJr:

Who is that?

J:

And he wanted me to say that at least they'd have

ten million, and I told him I didn't know what they'd
have but we were all friendly and kindly disposed
and all that.

3

- -3 HMJr:

You mean the fellow from Colombia?

J:

Yeah.

HMJr:

Uh-huh.

J:

But that they might not have as much as ten or we

might, but I didn't want him to go away believing
that he was -- that he had that much promised to

him.
HMJr:

I see.

HMJr:

But we'll have a lot of customers now that we hadn't
contemplated when we asked for this money originally.
That's right.
And that -- 80 we'd just do the best we could by him.
That's right.

J:

But I -- I was afraid that he had gotten a little

J:

HMJr:
J:

bit more encouragement than that at the other place.

HMJr:

I see.

J:

Over at State.

HMJr:

Yeah.

J:

So I bore down a little bit harder for that reason.

HMJr:

Well I never discussed any loan with him 80 he's
got nothing here.

J:

Well I -- I wanted you to know that.

HMJr:

Right.

J:

Now, are you getting away?

HMJr:

Tomorrow night.

J:

Do you want to talk -- shall I talk to Joe about
other loans.

HMJr:

Oh, I think you'd better talk -- better talk with
Danny Bell

4

-4 J:

All right.
while I'm gone.

HMJr:
J:

All right.

HMJr:

I think you'd better talk with Danny Bell.

J:

All right I'll do that.

HMJr:
J:

Yeah, and I think that
Because I think we've got -- I've promised Sweden we
might give them some action on that pretty soon.

J:

No, 1f you'll talk with Bell I'd appreciate it.
I -- I'd rather do that.

HMJr:

Yeah, I think

J:

Although I like Joe very much.

HMJr:

Yeah, but he's too young for that.

J:

Yes.

HMJr:

Yeah.

J:

O. K. Well, are you going to be gone long?

HMJr:

Just -- about a little over a week.

J:

Well, have a nice time.

HMJr:

Thank you.

J:

Goodbye.

HMJr:

Goodbye.

HMJr:

5

February 7, 1940
4:45 p.m.

Jerome

Frank:

Hello.

HMJr:

Hello.

F:

Jerome talking.

HMJr:

F:

Oh, hello Jerry. Jerry, I'm leaving tomorrow and
before I go I want to bring you up to date on what
these British fellows are supposing -- talking about
doing on their securities.
Yes. When would you -- when would be convenient
for you?

HMJr:

Well, how -- is -- how about tomorrow afternoon?

F:

All right.

HMJr:

Is three o'clock good?

F:

It will be all right.

HMJr:

What?

F:

I'm -- yes, I'll be there at three.

HMJr:

That'11 be fine.

F:

Gif -- Gifford called me and wanted me to go to

HMJr:

Oh.

F:

dinner with him last night but I couldn't make it.

And I -- I called you last week because I was disturbed what I read about what was said in Parliament.
You probably saw that.

HMJr:

I think 80. You know the first time he came in to

F:

Yes.

HMJr:

So I'll bring you up to date tomorrow and I've also
-- want to give you a new list of securities.
(Laughs) All right.

F:

see me I asked you to come but you were out of town.

6

-2HMJr:

What?

F:

Three o'clock tomorrow.

HMJr:

Righto.

7

TREASURY DEPARTMENT

111

INTER-OFFICE COMMUNICATION

DATE February 7, 1940
TO

Secretary Morgenthan

FROM

Mr. Cochran

CONFIDENTIAL

The dull tone which characterized the foreign exchange market the past few
days prevailed again today. The opening rate for sterling was 3.98-1/2 and

shortly thereafter it eased to 3.97-7/8 on small selling. By noontime it had recovered to 3.98-1/8. The rate remained steady at this level for most of the
afternoon and closed at 3.98-1/4.

Sales of spot sterling by the four reporting banks totaled 1225,000, from

the following sources:

By commercial concerns

L 168,000

By foreign banks (Europe)

Total

L 57,000
I 225,000

Purchases of spot sterling amounted to 1360,000, as indicated below:
By commercial concerns
By foreign banks (Europe and Far East)

Total

L 187,000
L 173,000
L 360,000

The following reporting banks sold cotton bills totaling 113,000 to the

British Control on the basis of the official rate of 4.02-1/2:
L 8,000 by the Guaranty Trust Co.
5,000 by the Chase National Bank
113,000 Total

The quotation for the Dutch guilder, which strengthened yesterday to .5321,
rose further in Amsterdam to .5330 prior to the opening in New York. The firmness
was not maintained in the American market however, and the quotation moved off
to close at .5320.
The other important currencies closed as follows:
French france
Swiss france

.0225-5/8
.2242-1/2

Belgas

.1684

Canadian dollars

13-1/16% discount

The discount on the Ouban peso was unchanged today at 7-13/16%.

8

-2-

We purchased the following amounts of gold from the earmarked accounts of
the banks indicated:
$1,180,000 from the National Bank of Belgium
500,000 from the Netherlands Bank
$1,680,000 Total

The Federal Reserve Bank of New York reported the following shipments of
gold:

$25,000,000 from Canada, shipped by the Bank of Canada, Ottawa, to the Federal
Reserve Bank of New York, to be earmarked for account of the Bank
of England.

2,695,000 from South Africa, shipped by the South African Reserve Bank to the
Federal Reserve Bank of New York, for account of the Netherlands Bank.
2,256,000 from England, shipped by the Bank of England to the Federal Reserve
Bank of New York for account of the Swiss National Bank.
$29,951,000 Total

The disposition of the shipments from South Africa and England is unknown at the
present time.

The Bombay market re-opened today with a silver price equivalent to 39.41
off about 7/16 from the quotation which ruled on February 5.
The London fixing prices for spot and forward silver were quoted at 21-1/2d
and 21-3/8d respectively, both off 3/16d. The U. S. equivalents were 38.56$ and

38.09

Handy and Harman's price for foreign silver was unchanged at 34-3/4*. The
Treasury's price was also unchanged at 35.
We made three purchases of silver totaling 175,000 ounces under the Silver

Purchase Act. All of this silver was new production from foreign countries, for
forward delivery.

KWR.

CONFIDENTIAL

STRICTLY CONFIDENTIAL

TREASURY DEPARTMENT
INTER-OFFICE COMMUNICATION

9

M

DATE February 7. 1940
TO

Secretary Morgenthau

FROM Mr. Cochran

We learned by telephone from the Federal Reserve Bank at New York
today that a cablegram had been received from the Reichsbank requesting

(in case that American mail would be subjected to English or French control)
that the Federal send in the future its airmail destined for the Reichsbank
in such manner as the Federal might think suitable, to the following address:
"Banco Germanico de Le America del Sud,
Mexico City,
Mexico."

It is understood that the Federal has been sending practically all
of its mail to the Reichabank by air, and that requests have recently been
received to send duplicates of certain communications, the originals presumably having been intercepted by the Allies.
It would be interesting to know by what channel the Germans expect to

receive their mail from the intermediaries in Mexico. It is possible that
it might go via Russia on the ships now calling at Manzanillo. On the

other hand, some arrangement might be made for the use of a friendly diplomatic courier out of Mexico City to Germany or to some neutral country
bordering on Germany.

1mm

10

February 7, 1940
3:10 pm

Present:

Mr. Purvis
Mr. Bloch-Laine
Mrs. Klotz

Mr. Gaston (for first part of the meeting
and again as indicated in the
transcript)
Mr. Foley (for first part of the meeting and
again as indicated in the transcript)
Mr. Bell (for part of the meeting as indicated)
Mr. Sullivan (for part of the meeting as indicated)
Mr. Ballantine
(of the British Purchasing Mission)
as indicated

HM,Jr: How do you do, gentlemen.

Mr. Purvis: May I bring in my Washington head,
Mr. Ballantine?

HM,Jr: No. One second, if you don't mind.
Mr. Purvis: Some other time.
HM,Jr: On second thought, I am afraid that in my
youthful enthusiasm that I had better not do what I contemplated doing in regard to industrial diamonds. I don't

think the risk is worth it.

Mr. Purvis: No note was made, so whatever you say.

risk.

HM,Jr: I think I am taking an undue risk, personal

I had better not take it.

Mr. Purvis: Consider it buried here.
Mr. Bloch-Laine: Exactly!

11

-2-

HM,Jr: What I am going to do, which will have
a better long-run effect. Mr. Gaston is to make a
study of the thing and we may find that we are so short
of these industrial diamonds that we may want to keep
them in the country entirely. That's legal, and while
one shipment may get out of the country -- I told you I
would always play the cards face up.
Mr. Purvis: And we will too.

HM,Jr: I just, frankly, I don't think the risk
is worth it.
said.

Mr. Purvis: You can regard it as if it was never
HM;Jr: Sometimes my feelings run away with me.

Mr. Purvis: And, after all, if we respect it, it

would be much better for us.

HM,Jr: My feelings run away with me and, after
all, I am the Secretary of the Treasury and not Henry
Morgenthau, Jr.

So Mr. Gaston, who has Coast Guard and Secret

Service under him, is going to continue and we have
asked a man in New York who represents the jewelry trade,

their attorney, to see if he can't make a study and possibly get them on a voluntary basis, possibly, not to export. I think it would be much better, rather than trying to catch one shipment. We may lose one shipment, but
if we can stop the whole business, that's what you people
would like.
Mr. Purvis: Thank you very much.

HM,Jr: Now, I will be glad to meet your Washington

representative.

Mr. Purvis: Well, some other time.
HM,Jr: No, I would be delighted.

12

-3-

Mr. Purvis: We are still hoping to see you
later this afternoon after we leave Mr. Sullivan.
We are still in a bit of a Jam on the other matter.
HM,Jr: I can say Mr. Sullivan talked to me and
told me about this thing and it just seems you will
have to pay through the nose. I don't see what we
can do.

Mr. Bloch-Laine: Too bad! Yes, it's bad because
it increases the cost of everything.
HM,Jr: Have you any suggestion? As I understand
it, this was put up before the whole Board of Directors.
Mr. Purvis: What I understand is this: they feel
their experience from past rulings, a ruling from the Commissioner is not a safeguard necessarily and they are determined that any risks on it be on us. Terrible thing!
Amounts not only to our putting up the actual amount of the
plant , but actually 125% because we have to include the
amount of the tax. Then in addition to that we have to
give them the guarantee of our Governments that 1f, by any
chance, there is an increase in the tax rate here, this year

or retroactively, that we will have to pay it. That is
only for this particular small lot, which is terribly im-

portant, but we are now in a week coming to the same issue,
involving $9,000,000, on which we shall have to pay down,

therefore, $9,000,000 plus 2-1/4 millions, $11-1/4, and
will be willing to consider the other as a precedent and
in that case there may be no way in which the transaction
could be done, because they say they will not take any risk
whatsoever. When it comes to that size of thing they are
not going to be put in the position of accepting a guarantee from a foreign Government which will necessitate their
going to a foreign country to do their legal work. They
also point out, if we do agree to pay the increased rate
of tax on such a large sum, we might be able to pay it except at the cost of tripling or quadrupling, because every
time we pay it there will be another tax on the amount
we pay and if the tax rate should go up it might pyramid
it into a perfectly unbelievable sum.
HM,Jr: If we were like the Greeks or Turks, we

there they tell us that they are not at all sure that they

13

-4-

would say before you get the powder you will have to
buy our lard.

Mr. Purvis: It's a terribly serious thing because it will prevent the buying of the lard.
HM,Jr: I saw Mr. Sullivan at 2:15 and I asked
him if there is anything we can do. He said the interpretation which the Hercules people are making of our

tax ruling is inaccurate. Evidently they don't want to
believe us. If they don't want to take the word of the
United States Treasury, there is nothing we can do about
it.
Mr. Purvis: Of course, there is a difference between a ruling and a closing agreement.

HM,Jr: They claim that is illegal.

Mr. Purvis: If it relates to the future, they fear
you will not give it to them, but if you will give it to
them I think we have another chance with them.

HM,Jr: I understand from Mr. Sullivan they did not

even want that.

Mr. Bloch-Laine: We tried to make it clear that
they could take a closing agreement, but they thought it
would not be possible for you to give it.
Mr. Purvis: For a transaction that was based on
settlement in the future.
HM,Jr:
I don't know. What did Mr. Sullivan say
on that?

Mr. Purvis: He simply said he was going to see
That was all. If we could get a closing agreement
it gives us at least one sporting chance.
(At this point, HM,Jr phoned Mr. Sullivan to come

you.

to the office.)

HM,Jr: Won't you bring in Mr. Ballantine now.
(Mr. Ballantine joined the group, was introduced
to the Secretary and remained for the discussion.)

14

-5-

(Mr. Sullivan joined the group at this juncture.)
HM,Jr: John, I started to talk to these gentlemen
about something else and, living up to their reputation
for the bull dog
Mr. Purvis: It's a good cause.
HM,Jr:

and we got on to something entirely

different. They put something to me -- as I told you
before, when it gets on the tax business I don't know
anything. Now just state the case again.
Mr. Purvis: What I was saying, Mr. Sullivan, was
this: if we could not get, knowing that they won't accept
the ruling, knowing that Mons. Bloch-Laine slightly corrected me this morning that they said they did not think

you would give them a closing agreement, if there would
still be a chance on a closing agreement on a loan basis,
we would very much like to have one more chance of going

back to them.

Mr. Sullivan: I understood you said they expressed
the opinion a prospective closing agreement was illegal.
Mr. Purvis: Mr. Bloch-Laine corrected me. They
expressed the view that you would not give an agreement
because it would be illegal, and that was the way we left
it this morning.
Mr. Bloch-Laine: Because we discussed it at length.
They said a closing agreement would be satisfactory, but
they doubted in the circumstances you would give one.

Mr. Purvis: On future transaction. That was the
way we left it this morning.
Mr. Bloch-Laine: Indid not get the difference between a closing agreement and a ruling.

Mr. SFoley Commissioner's ruling is a precedent
but is not binding;a closing agreement freezes both parties.
Mr. Sullivan: They also told you that the present
Administration could not bind future ones by the method of
closing agreements.

15

-6-

Mr. Purvis: No. No. What they said more par-

particularly was a Commissioner' S ruling was not necessarily
final and that they themselves, as a company, had run into

that experience. That is the position with which we were
faced and, after all, we can't have any opinion about that.
That is a question of fact, so far as they are concerned.
They claim they have unanimous Board opinion they could
not run that risk, because of its being a ruling from the
Commissioner. It is true in many countries, not confined
to this. A ruling is different from a closing agreement.
Mr. Foley: No doubt.
Mr. Sullivan: Rarely upset.
Mr. Purvis: You see, what I am so afraid, if Hercules forces this issue this way, this may sweep like
fire right across the countryside and we may find a very
big diminution in our purchasing power and tendency to
repeat it in the manufacturing industry, and I think it
has a real point because once this thing is known it will
just go right through the country.
Let
HM,Jr:
state this. Instead of my stating
me

it, John, state it for me. State the case.

Mr. Sullivan: The original proposal was that the
British were to lend to the Hercules Powder Company a sum
of money sufficient to build the plant.
HM,Jr: $1,600,000.

Mr. Sullivan: And the powder company was to ex-

ecute a note to repeay that loan at the expiration of the
contract. At the time the contract expired they were to
be given a credit equal to the amount they had lost on
the building. In other words, if they had taken 10% of
the cost of the building in depreciation and at the end
of the contract they abandoned the building, they would

then be given a credit on that note of 90% and would repay

the 10%

Mr. Purvis: That's possible scrap value.
Mr. Sullivan: The counter-proposal is that the

16

-7-

British not lend them the $1,600,000, but give them
the $1,600,000 which will be income at the time the money
is advanced and to cover the tax upon that income they
shall advance $400,000 or 25% at that time and that the
British will indemnify the powder company for any further
tax loss because of an increase in the rate applicable to
that $2,000,000 advance.

Mr. Purvis: So, in effect, we will be paying 25%

Your income tax rate is 19.8%
it?

HM,Jr: What, 1f anything, is there we can do about

Mr. Sullivan: I don't know. You come back to the

old question whether you are going to execute closing
agreements in contracts to foreign belligerents when we
have only executed two involving contracts for our own
Service Departments.

Mr. Purvis: It's the biggest issue we have struck

yet in our buying program.

HM,Jr: Would you three gentlemen (Mr. Purvis, Mr.
Ballantine and Mr. Bloch-Laine) mind leaving the room

while I talk with my two attorneys? Do you kind?

Mr. Purvis: Not a bit. (The three left.)
HM,Jr: What are you afraid of, John?

Mr. Sullivan: We are going to be driven into this

position

HM,Jr: You see, I got cold feet on this industrial
diamond business. That's what I sent for them for. Then
they popped this on me. And I said that's something else.

What are you afraid of?

Mr. Sullivan: I am afraid of this: that we may be

maneuvered into the position whereby closing agreements
we are giving to manufacturers making goods for foreigners,

things we can't get for our own because of the VinsonTrammel Act. That's why, from the very beginning, I
have tried to keep away from closing agreements.

17

-8-

HM,Jr: I see.

What do you (Foley) think?

Mr. Foley: I agree with John. I think the use

of closing agreements on this sort of thing
HM,Jr: We could do not it, say, for Colt Manufacturing?

Mr. Sullivan: We did it for Colt on a contract

for the United States Army. We gave them a closing
agreement. We gave one on the Navy contract with Con-

solidated Aircraft. Those are the only two that have
been executed, but once you open up closing agreements
on this, they can drive terms far more drastic than anything we could give to our own Army and Navy.
HM,Jr: Could they?

Mr. Sullivan: Oh, my, yes! Because there is

no profit limitation.

HM,Jr: How do they profit in giving them closing

agreements?

Mr. Sullivan: It does not at all.
HM,Jr: What's what I don't see. Supposing they
get a closing agreement. Could they make more money that
way than if they don' t?

Mr. Sullivan: No. No. We are off the track. Any

contract involving our own Army and Navy, that is subject
to profit limitation and closing agreement has to be drawn

in the light of that.
HM,Jr: Yes.

Mr. Sullivan: And we can't give concessions in
behalf of our own Army and Navy because we are bound by
the law. Now, in this case, we are not bound by the

law that restricts profits.

the answer! I have got a peach!
We will give them a closing agreement 1f they will sign
on the same kind of basis that they would under the basis
HM,Jr:

I

got

of the Vinson-Trammell Act.

18

-9-

Mr. Foley: You will never get them to sign.

Mr. Sullivan: No! Now wait a minute! It's

clever, but it's futile.

HM,Jr: Not as far as we are concerned. If they
want to sign with these fellows on the same basis and
live up to the rules and regulations of the Vinston-

Trammell Act, then we will give them a closing agreement.

Mr. Sullivan: They would not even bother to hang

up

the phone. They would just pull it off the wall.
Mr. Foley: What you are afraid of, John, if we

start out with the closing agreement device, we will have
to do it every single time a manufacturer takes an order
and has to expand his capacity for that purpose.
Mr. Sullivan: These fellows have allowed themselves to be put on the run too fast. They monkeyed
around all Fall and did not do anything. Now, if they
get on the run with Hercules, it's a stampede from now on.
HM,Jr: I swear I don't see, from the standpoint
of the United States Treasury why it's a disadvantage to
give Hercules a closing agreement. What does Hercules
get by it that somebody else can't get? You have not
convinced me yet. Naturally, I would not argue in front

of them, but I don't get it.

Mr. Sullivan: These closing agreements with
foreign Powers are going to be put up side by side against
the closing agreements we give Colt and the other fellow.
HM,Jr: Right!
Mr. Sullivan: And it's going to be used to prove
that the foreign belligerent can get things here that

our own Army and Navy can't.

HM,Jr: Now, wait a minute! See if I understand
what a closing agreement is. Let's use round figures.

Army or Navy buys 1,000,000 pounds of powder. Under
the Vinson-Trammell Act they can make 10% or 12%?

Mr. Sullivan: Make it airplanes and it's 12%

19

-10-

HM,Jr: All right. They can make $120,000.
And we say "Here', 8 a contract" and they come in, and
it's Consolidated Aircraft, and we look it over, give
them a closing agreement which tells them definitely
what their tax will be.
Mr. Sullivan: Yes.
HM,Jr: Now, the English come along and some
company -- they want to buy $1,000,000 worth of goods
and they charge them $1,250,000 and they make 37%, let's

say. They make 12% and 25% And they come in and say
"We want to know what our tax is" and we give them a firm
commitment. Well, the American manufacturer makes 37%
out of the foreigner and only 12% out of the Navy. What

the hell is the matter with that?

Mr. Sullivan: Now, wait a minute! Your airplanes -here, the British lend the money for the erection of that

factory and that money is not income and so the manufacturing
company, to get the money to build the airplanes for Great
Britain and France does not have to raise any money of its
own and the money that is advanced to it is not treated as
income until the time they abandon the building.
HM,Jr: I understand.
Mr. Sullivan: But the American Government can't
lend money to that company so it could take advantage of
the same technique to build planes for our own Service.

HM,Jr: Well, the American company is still the
beneficiary. What I am trying to get at, through giving
these fellows a closing agreement, are we handing any
special favors to the English? And I can't see that we

are.

Mr. Sullivan: Yes. The favor we are handing

to them, we are placing their armed forces in a more
favorable position to compete against our own Army and

Navy.

HM,Jr: Well, now, how?

20

-11-

Mr. Sullivan: It's just through this technique.
HM,Jr: You mean by paying more?

Mr. Sullivan: Yes. They are paying more, but
they are able to pay
Now, wait a minute. Consolidated Boat
HM,Jr:
is going to pick the English contract because it's more
profitable.
Mr. Foley: But they will do it anyhow.
HM,Jr: They will do it anyhow.
Mr. Foley: That's true enough.
HM,Jr: Are you (Foley) sold on it?
Mr. Foley: I don't like to see, any more than John
does, this closing agreement method extended and if this
is going to open the door -- and that's what I think John
is scared of -- and we have to enter into one of these
closing agreements every time these fellows enter into
a contract, then our Army and Navy come around and say,
"Why can't we have the same service that the British and
French can get from you people?"

HM,Jr: Well, "Can't you?". We are giving them

a

closing agreement.

Mr. Sullivan: But the Vinson-Trammell Act won't let
you do it for them.
HM,Jr: Do what?

Mr. Sullivan: There are 101 things you can't do
with the Army and Navy under the Vinson-Trammell Act, which
don't apply in these other cases.
HM,Jr: Cranted under the Vinson-Trammell Act they
can't make as much money! Granted!

Mr. Foley: And we can't use a closing agreement to
cut the heart out of the Vinson-Trammell Act. That's

21

-12-

what they are trying to get us to do. It's true profit

is limited under the Vinson-Trammell Act, but if you will
let us enter into closing agreements as to amount of depreciation, amount of obsolescence and other matters of
that character, thereby we will be able to get a greater
profit than we are able to get if the Vinson-Trammell Act
applied without a closing agreement. That's what they

are striving to get.
HM,Jr: Who?

Mr. Foley: The manufacturers.
HM,Jr: What does the manufacturer want to get?

Mr. Foley: They want to get more in the way of
profit than they can get by using the closing agreement.
HM,Jr: And you feel when we give a closing agreement to a firm getting more profit, we are putting our
stamp of approval on it?
Mr. Sullivan: Sure we are!
HM,Jr: Well, fellows, you have doubts. You have
not sold me, but I am going to go along with you.
Mr. Foley: It's his baby more than it's mine.
HM,Jr: I want to explain (to Sullivan) he (Foley)
happened in on a legal matter. I did not ask him on this,
but as long as he is here I want to get the benefit of his
views.

If you have your doubts, I told you once before I
am going to be the last fellow in the world to crowd you.
Can you talk in non-legal language?

Mr. Sullivan: Uhuh. I think so.
HM,Jr: And sum this thing up once more?

Mr. Sullivan: September 18th, there was a press
release indicating closing agreement technique was going

22

-13-

to be used by the Treasury for the Army and the Navy.

That was subjected to very marked misunderstanding and

misrepresentation in the press, and after a good deal
of labor on your part and the part of the Bureau, part
of Mr. Foley and others, we straightened out that situation and got back on a sound basis.
There have been only two closing agreements ex-

ecuted, one with Colt, one with Consolidated. If closing agreement is going to be executed in this case, there
will be 500 of them in the next six months.
HM,Jr: And so what?

Mr. Sullivan: And so every manufacturer who 18

selling anything to the Army or Navy that falls within
the classification of the Vinson-Trammell Act will be com-

ing around here and trying to get us on the same basis we
got on with Colt and Consolidated closing agreements.
HM,Jr: And again I say, so what? What you mean

is a manufacturer selling to the Allies?
Mr. Sullivan: No. I mean the other fellows. You
have to give a closing agreement to everybody who sells
anything to the Allies if you give one. They will all
be in here. Then there will be a hue and cry that the
Treasury is doing everything it can to help the Allies
and hurt our own Army and Navy.

HM,Jr: I can't see it. But you have lived with
it and if that's the way you feel
Mr. Sullivan: If I can't make you see it, I must

be wrong. You have not wanted the closing agreement in
all these Navy contracts.

HM,Jr: We will get two fresh fellows in here and
try it out on them.
(At this point, HM,Jr phoned for Mr. Gaston and
Mr. Bell to come in.
They came in immediately.)

HM,Jr: Explain it again, John.

23

-14-

Mr. Sullivan: We have thus far executed two closing agreements under the Vinson-Trammell Act. There has
been constant pressure for closing agreements between manufacturers and foreign belligerents, which we did not succumb to. None were executed and that pressure has subsided.

The proposal now comes today that we execute a
closing agreement between the British Purchasing Mission

and Hercules Powder. I am against such a closing agreement because I feel that if we do execute this closing
agreement every manufacturer who sells anything to the
Allies will insist upon a closing agreement. As the
pressure becomes greater across the water, our people
are going to drive harder and harder bargains which we
will at least quietly approve in executing the closing
agreement and it will re-emphasize the advantage the
Allies have over our own Army and Navy and I think will
bring up once again the whole fight over the VinsonTrammell Act and whether or not closing agreements should
not be liberally used as a device to circumvent the provisions of the Vinson-Trammell law in the light of the
very fine trades that the American manufacturers are making
with the British and French.

Mr. Bell: I thought you closed a closing agreement
with Atlas a couple of weeks ago.

Mr. Sullivan: No; that was a ruling.
Mr. Bell: Does the Vinson-Trammell Act apply to
any country? I thought it applied only to the Army and

Navy. How did the British get in on it?
Mr. Sullivan: Oh, no! The Closing agreement is
not restricted to the Vinson-Trammell. This is prospective.
Mr. Foley: It's the Internal Revenue, which fixes
the tax statutes.

Mr. Gaston: I understand these manufacturers want
a closing agreement on the tax, an arbitrary agreement on
the new plant.

HM,Jr: Nobody in the room understands it.

24

-15-

Mr. Gaston: You don't want to give away something
that may be of real value to the manufactuer in the end.

Mr. Bell: Is new construction involved in this?
Mr. Sullivan: Yes.
HM,Jr: That's the point.
Mr. Sullivan: But it may involve, and undoubtedly
would involve every phase of a tax liability situation.
Now these very same people, Hercules, who are driving such
a hard bargain here, left my office last Friday, I believe
it was, with one question to discuss with the Chief Counsel's
Office at the Bureau. They did not finish their discussions
in my office as early as they expected and it was too late
to get over until after lunch, so the date was changed to
2:30. When they got over there, they had a list of tax
liability questions as long as your arm that they wanted
settled. And this will rapidly expand into requests for
closing agreements by the Bureau determining every phase

of their tax liabilities. Now the field in which a pros-

pective closing agreement can be effected is an exceedi ngly
limited one.

Mr. Foley: Look, John, I think it would be helpful

1f you would tell how a closing agreement comes up in this
instance.

Mr. Gaston: The British view is the closing agree-

ment would save them money on the purchase price?

Mr. Foley: As I understand it, Hercules wants them

to put into escrow what the tax liability will be.

Mr. Sullivan: No! Give it to them! The plant

is to be $1,600,000
Mr. Foley:

for the tax?

pay for the plant and, in addition,

Mr. Sullivan: $1,600,000 plus $400,000 to pay for
the tax on the $1,600,000 which will be, of course
HM,Jr:
plus indemnity in case the tax law is
increased.

25

-16-

Mr. Sullivan: 19 and a fraction is the tax on

that amount of income.

Mr. Foley: Why do they make it 25%?

Mr. Sullivan: That's just a little added bonus.
Mr. Foley: Just driving a hard bargain.
Mr. Sullivan: Oh, sure!
Mr. Bell: What's the objection to adopting the

normal procedure on these contracts with foreign governments?

Mr. Foley: They would have to tie up so much of
their money to pay future taxes that they would have that
much less to spend for things they need.

Mr. Bell: You can't enter into these contracts for
the benefit of the British.
Mr. Sullivan: You mean closing agreements.

Mr. Bell: No. Why do you deviate from your normal

procedure. If you were doing it not only for the British,

but South American

Mr. Sullivan: We have not deviated.

Mr. Bell: I ask, why should you?

Mr. Sullivan: Here's the situation. They very
sadly need this particular thing.
HM,Jr: Let's go back to what Herman Oliphant and
my idea was on the closing agreement originally. I am
not just thinking of the British. I am an American manufacturer and I have a chance to sell domestically or for
export and I have got to build a new $1,000,000 plant.
Now, the way the situation is, if I make money the Government is that much better off and if I lose, I lose. Now,
this is not only this thing, but the whole question of plant
expansion when business picks up and if I am a manufacturer
I don't care whether I am selling the United States Army or

26

-17-

Sears Roebuck or Mr. Frenchman. The theory was, that
Herman and I originally had, that the manufacturer could
come in here and, in advance, get a ruling as to what the
tax would be before he consummated the deal. And I -this whole question on the tool people -- and they want
5,000,000 more or less -- if we get a $1,000,000,000 order -in order to expand their plant and they are not going to expand their plant unless they can come to an understanding.
Now, there is another side in this thing and that
is there has always been criticism, and justifiably, of
the Bureau, before you or I were here that a man never
we upset the ruling of the Commissioner on the Bostwick
Worsted Mill that for four years running they had deliberately cheaped and they gave me the idea. I upset the
ruling of the previous Commissioner that for four years
the Bostwick people had cheated the Government.

Mr. Sullivan: But if there had been a closing

gareement you could not have upset that one.

Mr. Foley: But there was fraud.
HM,Jr: There was deliberate fraud. I am looking
at this thing from an entirely different standpoint and
that is, can the American business expand in order to take
this business which is here? And I am not convinced, but,
as I said, I would rather make an error, I would rather
err on your side because you are handling this thing and
you feel so deeply on it.
But I have $5,000 and I think the American business
man has the right to ask the Bureau before I put up a
$1,000,000 plant, "What is my tax liability on this thing?"
and I have not been convinced yet that -- and it's this
fellow up here who has lots of charm and personality and
keeps after us (Purvis) that this original idea of closing
agreement -- why it should not apply just as much to him.
I don' t mean him, I mean Hercules, because it happens to have
a foreign order, as it would to Sears-Roebuck which wants

to build a $1,000,000 plant and wants to know beforehand where

he stands. I can't get it.

Mr. Sullivan: I think the thing you don't get is

my remark that the field in which prospective closing agree-

27

-18-

ments cah be useful is very limited. Now suppose you
are going to build a plant and you come in for a closing agreement in normal times. There is practically
nothing we can give you in a closing agreement that is
helpful to you because everything we promise is contingent upon the happening of certain things as years go
by.

HM,Jr: But whatever I can get out of it is that

much reassurance to me where the laws on taxes -- I mean,

the profits, the Government takes so much, that there is
this venture money that does not want to take the risk
unless it eliminates

Mr. Sullivan: Now, wait a minute! Risk that
restrains venture capital is not risk that a closing
agreement can protect them from. The risk venture money
is afraid of is increase in the tax rate and nothing in

a closing agreement can protect them from that.

HM,Jr: What I can't get is if Hercules came in here

tomorrow and somebody who wanted powder for non-military
purposes may have enough business to open a $1,000,000

plant, could they get a ruling from you if it was for
domestic uses?

Mr. Sullivan: No. For the last two months we

have refused to give closing agreements where they wanted

to build plants for the foreign belligerents.
HM,Jr: No, but I said suppose it was for building

a new railroad and they needed T.N.T. to build a railroad
in South America.

Mr. Sullivan: I think we would probably offer them
a rule and not a closing agreement.
Mr. Bell: You agree to the rate of deprecision over

ten years and some subsequent Commissioner can't upset that,

can he?

Mr. Foley: That's the difference between a ruling

and a closing agreement.

Mr. Bell: It seems to me that's very important.

28

-19-

HM,Jr: What this fellow says here (Sullivan) and
I most likely will end up going along with him although
I don't agree, that he is fearful of giving it to a belligerent whereas if this Hercules powder was to go for
non-military purposes he would give it to Hercules.
Mr. Sullivan: There would not be any closing agreement except
HM,Jr: Why not?

Mr. Sullivan: That's what brings in it, see? Your
whole situation is one that is created by the war. No

domestic customer would be advancing money for their plant.

Mr. Bell: What he's got is a proposition a the
British whereby they will pay for this plant expansion.
What they want is to know what the reduction in tax will be.

HM,Jr: No. If there is one penny reduction, I would
not call you out of your meeting. No. The Government collects just as much.

Mr. Bell: Why does Purvis bring it up?
HM,Jr: So he does not have to put out $450,000.
Mr. Sullivan: No. He has to pay the $400,000 anyway.
And he has to put the $2,000,000 on the table when the contract is signed, closing agreement or no closing agreement.
Mr. Bell: Why does he want it?
Mr. Sullivan: Because they don't know whether
Hercules
will accept the trade if there is no closing agreement.
HM.Jr: No. I think they can go today and sign the
contract provided they put up the tax. I understand that
the Board of Directors said that they will sign the contract

provided they put up all this money and the thing they are
fussing about

Mr. Sullivan: One thing the Board of Directors has
said is they would not accept the loan, as was previously

29

-20-

proposed, for $1,600,000 with credit at the end to be
offset against the loan. The Board of Directors has
never passed on this other plan of $2,000,000. Representatives of the company have said they would agree to
present it to the Board of Directors, but the Board of
Directors has never passed on the $2,000,000. But the
point I want to make for Bell, the idea has nothing to
do with how much the Government collects in taxes. We
get as much with or without a closing agreement.
Mr. Foley: That would have to be.

Mr. Bell: You certainly stabilize your rate of

depreciation, which has the same effect on your taxes.

Mr. Sullivan: We can't do that. That's the thing
can't agree that property is going to be useless two or five

we fought through under the Vinson-Trammell business. You
years from now.

(At this point, HM,Jr asked Mr. Sullivan to go out
into his reception room, where Mr. Purvis was waiting, and
ask him what had been submitted to the Board of Directors.)
(Mr. Sullivan returned.)
Mr. Sullivan: The only proposal that was submitted
to the Board of Directors was the loan proposition -- unanimously rejected. Four members of the Board have indicated
that they will try to persuade the Board to accept a proposal which involves their paying the company $2,000,000
the day the contract is signed. They are not interested
in any closing agreement on that proposal. They don't
need it. They have got the money.
HM,Jr: Who has the money?

Mr. Sullivan: The Hercules will have the $2,000,000.
They don't want any closing agreement if that trade is followed. The reason you are being asked now about a closing
agreement is that these gentlemen still have it in the backs
of their heads they want the loan device used above any or
all others. They don't know whether it would be made to
appear more attractive to Hercules if they were to be able
to say "and we can give you a closing agreement to assure

30

-21-

you that the loan technique will stick". Now, they don't
know whether that will have any effect on Hercules or not.
Of course, it isn't going to. As between those two, Hercules will stay with the $2,000,000.
HM,Jr: Cash.

Mr. Sullivan: Right in their fist!
Mr. Gaston: I don't know how much of an area a
closing agreement is supposed to cover.

Mr. Sullivan: What is happening today, not just
Hercules is being decided today. What you are deciding
today is whether every taxpayer in America who intends in
any way to change or alter his business is going to be entitled to come in here and get a closing agreement on any

phase of his tax liability.

HM,Jr: And why not?

Mr. Sullivan: Because, in the first place, it's entirely too conjectural. Except in special instances, it's
not helpful. You will have your tax future clutted up with
a lot of closing agreements that will breed more tax litiga-

tion and cause more confusion and trouble to the taxpayers
than anything that has ever happened.
Mr. Gaston: These closing agreements are not supposed

to be the principal determination of the amount of profit,
but merely conditions upon which profits shall be calculated.
Mr. Sullivan: That's right.
HM,Jr: I am not sold. What you are saying to
me

is this: you are saying that if we do this it will cause

a lot more work.

Mr. Foley: That's right.
HM,Jr: But might it also not accelerate business?

Mr. Sullivan: I think not. It would accelerate

business if they could get through the technique of a closing

31

-22-

agreement some added advantage, which was just what they

thought they could get last Fall and you will remember
that as soon as ever you had your press conference and
indicated that a closing agreement could give to no taxpayer any right they were not otherwise entitled to, the
pressure stopped. They did not want it.

Mr. Foley: You are afraid this is going to open

up that whole thing again.

Mr. Sullivan: I am very much afraid.
HM,Jr: What do you (Bell) think?

Mr. Bell: I don't know. I am confused.
HM,Jr: Well, I will tell you what we will do.

After all, if they go ahead with Hercules they can buy
this powder, put up the money. As far as we are concerned, that does not set the die.
Mr. Sullivan: No.
HM,Jr: Because they have closed one contract with

Atlas with a ruling and with Hercules with or without a

ruling, so its 50/50. You (Foley) are not sold. You
have a mind of your own.

Mr. Foley: Sure I have a mind of my own. Well,
I am trying to be impartial.

HM,Jr: Well, don't. Say what you think. I don't

care which way it is, but say what you think.
Mr. Foley: I am trying to see what advantages there
are insofar as the Bureau is concerned and the manufacturers
and weigh that against the difficulty we are going to have
with the Army and Navy and with the Vinson-Trammell Act if
we do this.

Mr. Sullivan: I think the difference is
HM,Jr: Let him finish.

Mr. Foley: It's a large problem. It's a serious

decision to make.

32

-23-

HM.Jr: You mean you are not ready to decide. All

right. Let's all think it over and, in the meantime, let
the British pay. But I am doing it because there is nobody here, I gather, who will say -- that wants to decide.

You (Sullivan) are the only fellow who has made up his mind.

Mr. Sullivan: I think the reason I feel the way I

do and you don't share that feeling is I don't know anybody
else in this room who has ever sat in on closing agreements.
Mr. Gaston: Are there any drafts of closing agreements?
was

Mr. Sullivan: Yes: Consolidated Aircraft, which
drawn up and used. At least 50% of the time of four

people for ten weeks; that's one closing agreement.
HM,Jr: Andas a result of which you saved the United
States Government on the original cost price -- how much?
$6,000,000?

Mr. Sullivan: About $3,000,000. Well, now, that
is not a fair statement.
HM,Jr: Well, it's a true statement.
Mr. Sullivan: Oh, no! It's not a true statement.

Well, it just so happens because we would not give them
the type of closing agreement they wanted
HM,Jr: But you did* save $3,000,000.

Mr. Sullivan: But we would not save them a cent if

you had anybody over in Navy who ever sold brooms or any-

thing else.
HM,Jr: But when you got through, the Government was
$3,000,000 better off.

Mr. Sullivan: That's right.
Now, a corporation files a tax return and you sit
down and audit the figures that represent the things that
have actually happened. That's one thing and it's fairly

difficult and complicated. But if instead of sending their

33

-24-

return in on March 15th and saying "this is what happened
in 1939", they come in on December 15th and say "we want

you to make out our income tax for the coming year"

HM,Jr: Well, I still say -- and I am going to use
my prerogative as boss -- I will let you have your way on
this, but I still say if I have an expansion program I

don't care how hard you and the other fellows have to work,
there ought to be a way a man can come in before he lays
out a lot of new money and get an expression and a commitment from the United States Government how much they are

going to tax me before I start, but we will continue this
on the 19th.

Mr. Bell: Under the present law?

HM,Jr: Yes. That's all you can ask. And if -- I

don't care whether aofellow has $10,000 or $10,000,000, I

think before he takes that risk, under these conditions that
he is entitled to know and I don't care how hard work it is
for you and all the other lawyers. I think it 1s a service
the United States Government should offer to its people and
I wish, when you really read the original stuff that Herman
Oliphant made

which is not a closing agreement
Mr. Sullivan:
which is on the books today, and what you have here is the
result without any of the safeguards.

HM,Jr: Well, you certainly can't fight with the

philosophy I have just laid down.

Mr. Sullivan: Not with the philosophy; no, I can't.
M.Jr: And if the law is not set up, let's consider
to let the law fit the philosophy if necessary until we get

a chance to change it. But no fairminded person can fight
with me when I saw a business man who is contemplating an
expansion program and before he does it he has the right to
know what it is going to cost him in the way of taxes under
existing law. He's got a right to come down and not wait
the way he used to. We have had cases of companies, millions
and millions of dollars. One company with $15,000,000 or
$20,000,000 and had been here seven or eight years and the
Bureau fussed around and they could not get a decision.

34

-25-

Mr. Gaston: If you mean a tax case, I don't see
how it can be done, because that involves how much profit
he will have and that's just a guess.
HM,Jr: We can tell him the rate of depreciation,
etc.

Mr. Sullivan: You mean on the building?

HM,Jr: On a building; on his machinery.
Mr. Sullivan: That would be very unwise. Our depreciation rates on machinery are not static. Statistics
are constantly being revised in the light of experience in
the trade and it would be unwise for a manufacturer to sign
one of those.

HM,Jr: If a fellow had all this in the future, I

don't blame them for not going ahead. There is something
wrong with the Treasury. There is something to all this
criticism. Why should they go ahead?

Mr. Sullivan: This never held them up before.
HM,Jr: Well, something is holding them up.

Mr. Sullivan: Well, lack of closing agreement
HM,Jr: No. Lack of knowing what it will cost them

on a new program.

Mr. Sullivan: They have never known before.

HM,Jr: Well, look at the complaints. Look at the
grief we take all the time.
Mr. Bell: Does this have to be decided before you
get back?

HM,Jr: No , this has to be decided on the 19th. I
will call them in and say we are very sorry, we can't give
you what you want. I told John this is his job. I am
going to argue with him, but I will never talk taxes with
anybody unless he's here and I will never cverrule him, but
I can argue with him.

35

-26-

Mr.

Sullivan: I hope you keep it up.

HM,Jr: I am going to! Don't worry! But I am

not convinced. We will continue this on the 19th.
Mr. Sullivan: You have not the faintest idea what
they want because if Mr. Morgenthau is going to put up a
plant, a fellow who is thinking of buying some securities
is entitled to a closing agreement as to what is going to
be gained or lost.
HM,Jr: No.

Mr. Sullivan: Why not?
HM,Jr: You know from year to year where you are at

and it's an entirely different proposition.

Mr. Sullivan: It's just as vital to that fellow's

expansion program. It's just as important.
HM,Jr: Bernie Baruch was in here on practically the
same thing. It was a question of tax laws on profits and
loss on stocks and he wanted it changed and to go back to
the old 12-1/2%, and the President would not tell him and
sent him over here and he has not spoken to me again.
The President would not tell him and the President told
me he would not change, but he wanted me to tell it to
Bernie. I did. As a result of that, Bernie went to
work with Arthur Krock and tried to put Joe Kennedy in.
(At this point, Mr. Foley, Mr. Gaston and Mr. Bell
left the conference.)
HM,Jr: John, 1f you will stay, I will see these
people.

(At this point, Mr. Purvis, Mr. Ballantine and Mr.

Bloch-Laine came in.)

HM,Jr: I am sorry, but we want to give this thing
all the time necessary. I had everybody in to make sure.
We feel that we cannot give the manufacturer a closing

36

-27-

agreement and that's what we have been discussing for the

last hour.

Mr. Purvis: Uhm! It's a serious matter for us.
HM,Jr: It is also for us, very serious, and I had

everybody stop and we have done nothing else for an hour.

Mr. Purvis: Yes.
HM,Jr: But at least you know our position.
Mr. Purvis: Yes.
HM,Jr: We felt it was important and we want to do
everything we can. This is one thing we can't do.
Mr. Purvis: I see. There is no other way that you
can imagine in which this can be met.
Mr. Sullivan: Not that I have been able to think of yet.

Mr. Purvis: I think it will have a very far-reaching

effect on purchasing here.
Mr. Sullivan: No one except you and Hercules knows

about this -- that there is to be no closing agreement, no

ruling, so there will be no publicity about it.
Mr. Purvis: Except that terrible thing -- word of
mouth; potent. Once they have it, the whole Board of
Directors, somebody will be indiscreet. I am talking about

the result and the fact that when it is know among other manufacturers in the country that Hercules have obtained from
the British and French Commissions 125% of the cost of tht

plant laid down in cash before it is built, the effect will
be electric, I should think.
HM,Jr: I have given it half a day
Mr. Sullivan: They are doing this to you because
they have a monopoly, and that situation doesnot prevail
in the other industries you are interested in.

Mr. Purvis: I think in all the things we want rapidly

37

-28-

we will find a variation of this situation. I think it

will mean a broad policy decision will be involved for
England and France in regard to purchases here. I don't
see any way out. I should think it would mean that we
shall have to try, even at the cost of greater delays, four
or five months, to build this in Canada by hook or crook.
However, that's by the way. I do thank you for working

at it.

HM,Jr: We worked at it and we also think it is a
very broad policy matter and after going over it very full.
and having all the top people in here, we felt we can't do
anything more than say it is impossible.
Mr. Purvis: Can we say this: that if Mr. Sullivan
by any chance, can think of something, that it will be acceptable to you?

HM,Jr: He is thinking about it all the time and he's
a very versatile fellow.
Mr. Purvis: You see, I have faith in him. He thought
of that one.

HM,Jr: But up to date and certainly during my absence

I don' t want to put Sullivan in the position -- we have discussed this now, as I say, very, very fully, and as of this
time I can't see anything else. If we do see that there is
a change we will be glad to let you know.
Mr. Purvis: Yes, fine!
HM,Jr: But I don't want him to be in the position of
trying to get a white rabbit out of the hat.
Mr. Sullivan: Have you finished with Mr. Schwarz on
the press release about Atlas?
Mr. Blooh-Laine: We have agreed on something if it
meets with your approval.

(Mr. Purvis, Mr. Blooh-Laine and Mr. Ballantine left.)
HM,Jr: (To Mr. Sullivan) I give people responsibility

and I reserve the right to argue, but on the firing line I

38

-29-

But you have to take care of me.
will back you up.
When you are out on the firing line and you are in com-

mand, I will never issue an order contrary, but on the
other hand you have responsibility. But in the room
here we can argue. Here is Bell, 28 years in the Treasury, mystified and Foley would not say yes or no. Bell
would not say yes or no.

00o-o0o

39

REB
GRAY

London

Dated February 7, 1940

Rec'd 5:40 p. m.

CHICK

Secretary of State,
Washington.

332, February 7, 7 p. m.
FOR TREASURY FROM BUTTERWORTH.

OnE. A high official of the British Treasury confirmed the information reported in my 315, February 5,
6 p. m. that Efforts are being made behind the SCENES

to Effect a working arrangement with the trade unions on
the question of prices and wages and indicated that the
trade union leaders WERE almost reluctant to enter into
real discussion much less grapple with ways and means.
The trade union leaders really depended for the

maintenance of their position on obtaining wage raises
and in the absence of air bombardments to bring home the

war to all classes it was difficult for them to COME out
for measures to win the war which might Entail their

losing their positions with the unions. What was not
said but what is also true is that the present ChancEllor
of the Exchequer does not command sufficient influence
with and confidence of the members of the trade unions to
lend

40

REB -2-#332, From London, Feb. 7, 7 p. m.

lend the trade union leaders substantial support in
putting OVER an agreed upon arrangement with the rank

and file.
Two. With reference to the final sentence of the
third paragraph of my 2698 of DECEMBER 21, 7 p. m. it may

be of interest that the ChancEllor of the Exchequer was
asked in the HOUSE of Commons whether the Anglo-French

financial agreement involves a definite obligation on
the part of the British and French Governments to
maintain the existing official rate of Exchange bEtwEEN
the pound and the franc or merely an Endeavor by the two

governments to maintain the present rate as far as

practicable. Simon replied "the Effect of the agreement
on this point is that the two governments consider that
it is in the common interest to avoid alterations in the
official rate of Exchange between the franc and the
pound and that they agree that no such change would be
made without prior agreement between them."
JOHNSON
EMB

41

MEMORANDUM

February 7, 1940.

TO:

Secretary Morgenthau

FROM:

Mr. Sullivan

Advised by Mr. Foley that you had agreed to forward
to the Department of Justice recommendations for Mills
Kitchen and Edward G. Kemp, as members of the Court of
Customs in New York.

Foley further advised that you suggested that this
information should be conveyed to Congressman Doughton

by myself. After calling his office for an appointment

and learning that he was in Committee, I went to the Hill

and had him called out of the Committee. He was very much
pleased at the news and expressed his gratification with

a great deal of feeling.
He then went on to a discussion of the likelihood of
a tax program and said he had decided that if there were
to be any tax program he would insist upon a meeting with
the President, the Secretary of the Treasury, and Senator
Harrison, and an agreement by all parties on the tax program
before any bill was introduced.

Ths

42

February 7, 1940
10:19 a.m.

HMJr:

Hello.

Operator: Harold Smith. Go ahead.
HMJr:

Harold

Hello.

Smith:

Hello

HMJr:

How are you?

Mr. Secretary. Well, I'm pretty good, how are

S:

you?

HMJr:

I'm all right. I hear you've recommended a man who
is experienced in purchasing and we're going to take

him on.
S:

Well, I hope he's good -- he's as good as he seems

HMJr:

Well, I hope he's as good as you say he 18.

S:

to be.

(Laughs) Well, he comes very highly recommended and
I found that McReynolds had known abouthim, and I

sent him around to see Mac. It was a question of
whether, in our helping Graves over there, we should
take him on or you folks should take him on, and I
thought probably over in the center of things he
would be more helpful, and I think that was Graves'
attitude.
HMJr:

S:

Yeah, Graves spoke to me about it yesterday and we

decided that we'll take him on.

He might turn out to be very good. You might want
to use him for some time, but the only way you can

do, I take it, is just to try him out and see how
good he 18.

HMJr:
S:

HMJr:

Now

And no particular obligations.
I am doing -- or trying to do a job for the President
about coordinating airplane industry.

43

-2S:

HMJr:

I notice you are.
And in connection with that Dr. Lubin has been very
helpful, and he needs some money to do some investi-

gating work. And I asked him to put it in writing
and I let the President read it Saturday, and he's

asking for ten thousand dollars which 18 ear-marked
over in your Bureau.
S:

Yes.

HMJr:

I'm going to send you a photostat of the letter with
the President's O.K. on the ten thousand.

S:

Yeah.

HMJr:

And I'd appreciate it if you would release that to

S:

HMJr:

Dr. Lubin.

Yes. All right, we'll see what we can do about it.
Well, can it be one of these -- the tool industry
we talk about triple "A" priorities?

S:

Yeah.

HMJr:

And as one tool manufacturer to another will you take
care of Dr. Lubin?

S:

Yeah, yeah.

HMJr:

I'11 send it over by messenger.

S:

You bet.

HMJr:

And you'll find on the last page the President's O.K.

S:

Yeah. Well that's all right.

HMJr:

And if you could release that ten within the next
twenty-four hours

S:

HMJr:
S:

All right.
......I'd appreciate it.
Yeah. Once in a while we have a little trouble with
the Dr.

44

-3HMJr:

I see.

And I -- but I don't think this is anything we'll

S:

have any difficulty about.

HMJr:

Oh, you do have some

S:

Yeah, once in a while.

HMJr:

I see. Well, this 18 something that

S:

Well, if you -- if you feel that this is desirable

HMJr:
S:

HMJr:

why we'll go ahead with it.
Well, both -- well, the President and I do because
Yeah.

it's to give me -- it's to check up on these
fellows in the industry. For instance, I want to

know how are they training these fellows.
S:

HMJr:

S:

HMJr:

Yeah.

And what are they doing in the labor -- and it all
looks lovely, but I want
Yeah.

Lubin to put the canopener on it and see if it's
as good as it looks.

S:

Yeah.

HMJr:

See?

S:

Yeah. All right, we'll take care of it.

HMJr:

Thank you.

S:

Thank you very much.

45

February 7, 1940
2:47 p.m.

Operator: Go ahead.
HMJr:

Hello.

Charles
Edison:

Good morning, sir.

HMJr:

How are you? This -- is this Edison?

E:

Yeah.

HMJr:

Henry Morgenthau.

E:

Yeah.

HMJr:

How are you?

E:

Well, I'm about to fall apart.

HMJr:

Well, don't do it until I -- don't do it until I
get through talking to you.

E:

No, I'11 try to live that long.

HMJr:

Charlie, do you remember the President last summer
asked you to get a plane for me.

E:

Yeah.

HMJr:

Remember?

E:

Yeah.

HMJr:

Well, then they fussed around and they didn't get one
and I came back and I took it up with you again and
on November 4th we sent over some communication that

E:

You sent over what?

HMJr:

A communication that we -- we'd take a Loohhead number
18, you see?

E:

Yeah.

HMJr:

Well we've been -- I've been asking for progress reports
and we got on, oh as late as January 8th, saying that
the contract for this plane was February 11th and the

46

-2delivery was February 11th. Now I've just learned
that the plane isn't going to be ready for two or
three months.

E:

Yes.

HMJr:

And we called in a representative of the Lochhead
here in Washington and I don't know whether it's
correct or not but it seems that the papers have
been kicking around over there and whatever your
department is that does the buying of the planes,

and it seems like an awful long while and I just
wondered if somebody was, oh I don't know, trying
to give me a run-around.

E:

Well I'll check into it again. In the beginning -now let me see if I've got the story straight.

HMJr:

Well

E:

In the beginning you asked for this plane.

HMJr:

Yeah.

E:

HMJr:
E:

And we had a plane that we could give you right
away but you wanted to get a particular kind of
plane which you had to wait for. Then
That was November 4th.

The date is November 4th.

Yes. Then -- then that was delayed in delivery
and the timewent by. In the meantime another

new type of plane came out which you said you'd
rather have.
HMJr:

And that was November 4th.

E:

A Lochheed.

HMJr:

But Charlie, that was November 4th

E:

Yeah.

HMJr:

that we agreed with the Navy that it would be

a Lochheed 18.
E:

Yeah. November 4th?

47

-3HMJr:

November 4th.

E:

Yeah.

HMJr:

And then as late as the last communication that we

had from the Navy, the inspector out at the Aircraft
Factory - Lochheed - was the first week in January.
And at that time they said that the contract called
for delivery February 2nd. Hello? -- February 11th.
11th of February.

E:

Yeah.

HMJr:

Well, it was to be delivered. Now I learn that I -I don't -- they don't think they are going to get it
for two or three months.

All right. Well give me a little time on it and I'll-I'll try to check in on it.

E:

HMJr:

I wish you would because it's -- I don't know, I may
be all wrong but it looks as though, as I say, somebody in the purchasing section of the Navy -- well,
he hasn't -- isn't very much interested. That's -that's the impression I get. I may be wrong.

E:

Yeah. All right I'll look into it.

HMJr:

Shall I go over the dates once more?

E:

No, I've got it. November 4th

HMJr:

4th.

E

or around there that they promised the -- that
you could -- you agreed that you'd take a Lochheed.

HMJr:

A Lochheed 18.

E:

For delivery February 11th.

HMJr:

That's right.

E:

In other words, on election day you were promised

HMJr:

that a plane would be delivered on my father's
birthday, so I can remember those dates.
I see. And now they

48 2/7/40

two or three months from now.

E:

HMJr:

E:

HMJr:
E:

HMJr:

And I'm afraid that I won't get it during Mr.
Roosevelt's second term.

I see. All right. Let me work on it.
If you -- and I'll -- one other. .
I may not be able to get word back today but I'll get
it back in a day or two.
Now, one other thing. I've been told that the General
Machinery Company 18 manufacturing a special lathe
that's 165 feet long for Russia which would make an
18-inch gun. That it's right along side a piece of
machinery they are making for you people.

E:

Yes.

HMJr:

Nov, I don't know whether that's gone and been delivered or not but the Navy inspectors of the General

Machine Company -- Machinery Company would know. Hello?

E:

HMJr:

Yes.

And I'd like to know whether it would be of any interest
to the Navy if we'd try to do something to keep that
165 foot lathe from getting out of the country.

E:

General Machinery Company?

HMJr:

Yeah.

E:

General Machinery Company making 165 foot lathe

HMJr:
E:

HMJr:

which will make an 18-inch gun for Russia.

for 18-inch gun for Russia.
And they tell me that the Navy has got another big

piece of machinery right alongside of it, so your
Navy inspectors must know about it.

E:

Um-hm. All right, I'11 look into that.

HMJr:

Now, the man who saw this - it was some months ago,

so maybe it's too late. I don't know.

49

-5E:

Yeah. Are we interested in keeping the big lathes

here.
HMJr:

Right.

E:

Wait a minute I'm putting this down.

HMJr:

Right.

E:

All right I'll -- I'll look into that too.

HMJr:

Thank you very much.

E:

All right, sir.

HMJr:

Thank you.

E:

Goodbye.

50

February 7, 1940
11 a. m.
Present:

Mr. Purvis
Mr. Bloch Laine
Mr. Bell

Capt. Collins

Mr. Cochran

Mrs. Klotz

HM,Jr: I don't know whether Capt. Collins told
you about our meeting this morning with the machine tool
people.

Capt. Collins: I have not, Sir.
HM,Jr: They were in and we saw them first and then
we saw the two engine people, Wright and Pratt-Whitney --

and Allison seems to think everything is lovely so they
did not come today. So the other people, they have gone
away. Their situation already has been helped considerably but there is a lot of more work that has to be done
and up to the time that they left they did not think that
the trouble was the foreign orders, but they had not had
the whole picture. I don't know whether they are meeting
in their own hotel or downstairs.

Capt. Collins: They are in their hotel.
HM,Jr: Just to give you an idea, Curtiss-Wright
says they ought to deliver, through all orders of machine
tools, 62%. They only have a delivery of 22%.
Mr. Purvis: Machine tools must have run into some

difficulty.

HM,Jr: As they said, they have had three sets of
promises. Now they would like delivery. They are working on it. Machine tool people -- really, well, all of
this publicity has gotten them very angry, but I think it

has had a good effect, because they say "we are not going

51

-2-

to be the goat" and so forth and so on, and "we will

show the world" and while they got very much announced
about the New York Times saying one machine tool fellow

went fishing rather than making machine tools, it's all
right. They cussed me up and down the river and everything else, but particularly Curtiss-Wright have already
begun to get the benefit. But when you get through these
two tremendous new plants and see them three-quarters
empty, you realize that there is a lot of work to be done
and a lot of tools that have to be delivered, but, so far,
they have not said, "well, now, if the French would release this or the English release that, we can do that."
So it has not gone to that point. I said, go and meet
and I am keeping from three to four free in case they
want to come back and meet with you gentlemen and say,
"will you release this or that?".
Mr. Purvis: We will be available in case that
develops.

HM,Jr: I am free from three to four. They may
want to come back and say in the $50,000,000-odd that
your people have on order, now this tool or that is a
key tool, but they have not yet said that.
Mr. Purvis: No.
HM,Jr: But this morning Pratt-Whitney had some
288 tools they need very badly and I don't know how many

Wright, but there is a lot, so I am holding from three

to four and I have asked them to come back on the 21st,
which is two weeks from today, and check up, but the tool
people made the statement, which the engine people have
not corroborated, that due to the meetings here the tools
have been accelerated by four weeks -- the delivery -- but
the engine people have not admitted that.

Mr. Purvis: That will come along later.
HM,Jr: You have these two huge buildings at Patter-

son and Hartford

Mr. Purvis: Are those the ones you saw?

HM,Jr: Those are the ones I saw. Those are the

52

-3-

ones you gentlemen paid for. Now, before you get on
your own problem, the machine tool people asked me to
say one thing. That if this so-called billion dollar
order should materialize, they want to sit in from the
beginning. Which they should.

Mr. Purvis: I think that's correct.
HM,Jr: And if they are going to do anything more
in the way of deliveries, they have to have some new construction.

Mr. Purvis: Yes.
HM,Jr: And if they are going to have some new

construction, they went some money.
that.

Mr. Purvis: I want to talk a little later about
HM,Jr: They will need some money.

Mr. Purvis: Right!
HM,Jr: Because they are taking care of our domestic needs, but the question of piling on top of the
present situation, which isn't too good on delivery -I mean, I would be the last person in the world to kid
you, as we say in this country, but if you are going to
pile a billion dollar order on top of the existing ones
Mr. Purvis: As a matter of fact, I think it would
be absurd to go on with such a program unless one knew the
machine tool situation was possibly easier. The object
of the whole thing would fall down.
HM,Jr: And they had never seen this picture until
I brought them in.

Mr. Purvis: Possibly too much secrecy in our anxi-

ety to keep it quiet.
HM,Jr: But I think all the publicity, which was
started by the machine tool people in advance of their
coming down -- on getting an invitation they began to talk,

53

-4-

and there has been talk and I am convinced that it worked
out to the good, because they have their backs up now.
And this fellow who heads up this Committee, I asked him
and he said not a single machine tool fellow has refused
to cooperate. Not one. He has had 100% compliance

with the voluntary request. So I would say the publicity, while I regretted it, has been good. But, you
see, they have all been off by themselves and they tell
me about a company up in Wisconsin. The French have a
big order up there and they are off by themselves, and
if this other thing comes through I think you ought to
start almost first with the machine tool people.
Mr. Purvis: It is a fundemental section of the
industry. I think the engine makers worked on some

false premises, because I understand they did give assurance to Pleven and Colonel Jacquin -- engine makers,
not the machine tool makers.

HM,Jr: I don't know where it is. The people
are together now and they have made a lot of progress.
They are getting the tools. They are re-arranging

their schedules. Now they are going to come back in
two weeks and they have definite figures, and, after
all, all you have to do is to go up and see the buildings and see whether the tools are there or are not there.

week.

Mr. Purvis: Quite!
HM,Jr: But it has been very helpful.
Mr. Purvis: Quite!
Shall I give our report -- we got busy in the last
HM,Jr: Please.

Mr. Purvis: And I think we can report some suc-

cesses for you in this picture. In the first place,

Mr. Secretary, as far as the British end is concerned,
a figure of $10,000,000 was mentioned last week, and we
find a figure on the inside, on Government or indirect

Government orders, is not less than, as a minimum,
$15,000,000 and nearer, we can expect, to $21,000,000,

54

-5-

the missing point being we are not quite sure how much
of the orders has been shipped.
HM,Jr: The machine tool people report $34,000,000.
Mr. Purvis: Do they?
HM,Jr: We have been hearing $4,000,000 for the
British and $55,000,000 for the French.

Mr. Purvis: We have been able to get up to
21-1/2 millions.
French.

HM,Jr: They said $34,000,000 English and $55,000,000

Mr. Bloch-Laine: I made a complete check of the
orders that passed through our hands in New York -- and
I think it will be 100% of what has been actually ordered
since the Mission is here -- at present $52,000,000 worth
for Air Ministry and $26,000,000 for the Armament Ministry.

That's $78,000,000.

Capt. Collins: Machine tools only?

Mr. Bloch-Laine: Machine tools only, but all of
them. They call them stock macines because no one is
allowed to buy them without a license.
HM,Jr: What they said -- and I pass it along for
what it is worth -- all orders for machine tools for the
French go through your (Bloch-Laine's Mission, and not true
for the English.
Mr. Purvis: That is right. On the other hand, we
have made considerable progress. I am authorized to say
that at least from now on all machine tools for the Government, whether direct or indirect, will go through the Mission. They do ask me to make the point that in the control of actual imported stuff, which is reported to us to
be very small, they say that will cover the great bulk of
everything that is being done. The actual job of telling
you what is going on is very difficult one. All we ask
you to do is assure the Administration on that relatively

55

-6-

small detailed end of it, fullest cooperation will be
given but the supplying of actual figures is a physical
impossibility. We have got up to 21-1/2 millions with
some lists, but I think what we should do perhaps is

get together with the machine tool makers and we should
be able to bridge a good deal of the gap between 21-1/2
and 34 millions.

HM,Jr: This would only be important if they come

back between three and four o clock and say "we need certain machines by number which are on order from the English
and French and we want to release some of them".

Mr. Purvis: Yes; quite!
HM,Jr: Now if they don't, I think I would leave
them alone.

Mr. Purvis: All right.
HM,Jr: If you don't mind, because I think if you

met you may have to give up something.

Mr. Purvis: We certainly are not inviting that!
HM,Jr: You see what I mean? Unless they come

back and say -- now they have had a great difficulty in
getting machines by order numbers. Now they only got
that this morning, from the airplane engines. Now they
know machines by numbers and they may, between now and
three o'clock, say there are certain machines by numbers
that we would like to substitute if they can get your permission, but that has not happened yet. Unless they say
so, I would leave them alone.
Mr. Purvis: I agree.
HM,Jr: We have a proverb not to borrow trouble.
Mr. Purvis: You did ask us to say -- we might be
asked which was the more important, airplanes or machine
tools. We are both asked to say that giving up tools now
would be one of the greatest blows to the Allies' cause
and if they were forced to choose, they would have to choose
against the airplane engine in favor of the machine tool,
but hope they will not be.

56

-7-

HM,Jr: All the more reason why you should not

meet them.

Mr. Purvis: Very good. They also say they
will make four classes of requirements, but they are
bound to be tentative because the program in the war

is a developing proposition. That, I think, is pretty
obvious. That takes care of anything I have to say

about machine tools.

Mr. Bloch-Laine: They gave some indication, and

I don't think it is more than a tentative figure, they

spoke of starting October 1940 something like $21,000,000

for each of the two, Air and Armament Ministries, but it
is impossible to give details at the present juncture and
it is just an approximation and looks like it was a maximum.

HM,Jr: While we are talking about machine tools,
you know whether in the next 30 to 60 days whether you
are going to place many more orders, irrespective of the
air program? Do you know that?
do

Mr. Blcoh-Laine: I am not in position to tell you.
I don't know whether we will place them. There is a

$7,000,000 worth of orders for armament which are, I
should say, small orders because people in France have
been talking with makers of machine tools there and they

probably said that machine tools were available. We
are waiting for the proposals in order to discuss it with
the machine tool makers and sign it, which is the way it
is done. I don't think there will be difficulty there
because the representative of the tool makers in France
would not have said yes in Paris if they had not had word
from here. That may or may not be so. And there is in
the old program of the Air Ministry another $13,000,000
which includes precisely some of those difficult machines
to be had, which isn't, hasn't been placed because they
have not been able to place it.
HM,Jr: How much does that total?

Mr. Bloch-Laine: $78,000,000 plus. Both Air and
Armament. $7,000,000 in the Air, which I think are placed,
and there is $13,000,000 with a big question mark.

57

-8-

HM,Jr: So another $20,000,000?

Mr. Bloch-Laine: Another $20,000,000, out of
which $7,000,000 does not inspire any misgivings because

I don't think they are difficult machine tools.
Mr. Purvis: I am unable at this moment to give
figures as definite as that. That is my missing cable -forecast of the future. Simply asked me to bear in mind
that they will send it as quickly as they can get it, but

please to remember it is a developing program, so really
any figure we would give would be a guess made up from
this end from such sources as we have which are incomplete,
but which shows that further orders are going to be placed
if they can supply them. But we know there are $10,000,000
in orders we would like to place, but probably there will
be others from the other side and I think I ought to wait
for my cable.

HM,Jr: $10,000,000 for you? More?

Mr. Purvis: Yes, but it is a very tentative figure
because it comes only from this side. I have got to develop something more there.

Mr. Bloch-Laine: Whereas our Air Ministry has given
a complete program to the Air Mission and told them to go
ahead and place it and they have done quite good progress
that way, but they certainly have $13,000,000 worth of
machines that remain to be placed, and where the difficulty
exists.

Mr. Purvis: I take it we are talking about orders

we would like to place soon, not long-term program which
would obviously be very much larger.

HM,Jr: I just wanted to have in my mind how much
more business may be placed on top of the machine tools
and I carry a figure of between $20,000,000 and $30,000,000.

Mr. Purvis: In the relatively early future?
HM,Jr: From both countries, irrespective of what

I call the billion-dollar program. But there may be another

$20,000,000 to $30,000,000.

58

-9-

Mr. Bloch-Laine: Another thing I have which may

be of interest, all those orders, I would say are things
to be delivered between now and, say, October 1940 or a
little part of it up to the end of the year, when we are
talking about orders placed or orders about to be placed.
Mr. Purvis: That's right.
I think, Mr. Secretary, if you were going to keep
a figure in your mind, bear in mind we have our figure
only from this side. I think it would be better to double
our figure and call it $20,000,000, say, if you are keeping
a broad figure in your mind. It would be an understatement if we were working on the $10,000,000 alone.

HM,Jr: You may be interested, the industry says -and this is a rough figure -- they have a backlog of orders
from everywhere of around $350,000,000. So that gives
you an idea of where they stand, but it's a rough figure
of orders, backlog, that they have to fill yet.
Mr. Purvis: That's domestic and foreign?
HM,Jr: Everything. $350,000,000, of which the
foreign is about $125,000,000. That's their figure and
they say it is rough.
Mr. Bloch-Laine: But there must be others besides
the British and French.
HM,Jr:
Mr.

Oh, yes. Some Russian and some Japanese.

Purvis: It is small?

HM,Jr: Yes, surprisingly.
Mr. Purvis: Because report was made to the Australian
man, Keith Officer, by the Australian Trade Committee in
New York, which was very exaggerated, I thought. He said
every factory had four machines for Russia and four more
for Japan for every one they had for England and France.
I discarded that as incorrect material. And that was
blocking the whole show.

HM,Jr: That's not right. Like all these things,

59

-10-

when you get down, the picture is quite different. I

was hoping the Japanese and Russians would be big.

Capt. Collins: Unfortunately they brought out

the fact this morning that the Russian and Japanese
were not the type machines on order, were not the type
that could be readily converted to ourselves in this
country or were similar to machines that had been ordered by you.

Mr. Purvis: I see.
Shall we go to another subject?
HM,Jr: Please.

Mr. Purvis: Since I asked for a chance to come
and mention this to you, I have had a talk with Mr. Sullivan and am expected to see him after I leave you and
I make that clear at the beginning because of something
he said to me, but Mons. Bloch-Laine and I both feel -we are very seriously worried, in fact yesterday very
seriously depressed, as a result of the way things are
developing in connection with the means of avoiding tax
on capital extensions. I don't know that this would
apply to new plants, but extensions.
As you know, we attained one success, the Atlas
Powder Company, but we really do have an uncomfortable
feeling that it may be "one swallow may not make a sound".
We have run into the Hercules, who have a certain powder
which we must have, which we must place. We have run
into a situation where we are actually stymied. We had
two and one-half hours with them yesterday, Mons. BlochLaine and I, in New York and came out of it with the
knowledge that they would not be able to take care of
this loan procedure. I am going to see Mr. Sullivan
today in the hope that he may have some other suggestion,
but it did not seem that any easing that could be brought
about in the limits of his proposal would do any good

and, frankly, we are faced today with this fact: that

every day we lose, the powder plant is not being proceeded

with

HM,Jr:

Excuse me.

If you are going to talk that

60
-11-

to me, I would much rather have Mr. Sullivan in here.
I can't get 80 worked up about it, because there has
been so much horsetrading, if you don't mind my saying,
on both sides and you people always get so worked up -well, I don't know, I get the impression that there has
been quite a lot of horsetrading.

Mr. Purvis: Well, now, if there is anything of
that, then perhaps we had better talk with Mr. Sullivan
first. May we come back if it is as serious as we think?
Mr. Bloch-Laine: Complete impasse.
HM,Jr:

Oh, yes! I still have three to four

open for this purpose, but I just got that impression.
Did you clear with Sullivan -- he wanted to get
a release from you that we could publicize the Atlas
Powder business.

Mr. Purvis: Yes. We told him immediately we

would too delighted. The only thing I asked -- don't
think it would depreciate the value of what you do -would like to leave out any emphasis that the loan is
to come from us, because we are still working. Mr.
Stohl (?) (an officer of Atlas) talks about extension.
We are explaining and trying to sell him the idea of
a loan. That Sullivan has, but we don't say we put
up the money without necessity, but we hope the bankers
will be willing to lend on their general credit with
the idea we undertake to pay them the difference on
Sullivan's set-up and Sullivan is in agreement.
HM,Jr: You had better go once more to Sullivan
because he will do the explaining.

Mr. Purvis: I said we would be delighted.
HM,Jr: You know why we want the publicity?

Mr. Purvis: From the point of view of getting
the thing forward.
HM,Jr: It's my relation with Congress.
figure if they know it and if the people of the United
I

61

-12-

States know it, the chances are one to ten no investi-

gations.

Mr. Purvis: I see what you mean.

HM,Jr: All these manufacturers -- it is very
interesting when I go in the field, one of these engine
companies, oh moaning and groaning, "Look what the Nye
Committee did to us", and so forth and SO on. So I
said, "Well, that's why I have been publicizing all of
these things" and since we have done it not a Senator
or a Congressman has written us a letter. Am I right?
Cant. Collins: That's correct.
HI,,Jr: And if there is any complaint, we can
explain it before we get into this thing too deeply,
and, as far as I know, as of today our Congress is satisfied, which makes it much easier for you people because it would be much worse if we got along and suddenly they passed some law clamping down -- no powder

plant should be built or this or that or the other
thing, or if they stopped them after that had been
built. So I think it is good public relations to
explain these things as we go along. It's good for
you and it's particularly good for us and I explained
that to these airplane manufacturers and said, "Why
haven't you'told the public that this plant expansion
is paid for by foreign money?" The answer was "The
French did not want us to do it for fear of revercussions in France.

Mr. Purvie: Oh!

HD,Jr: So I said, "Well, I don't know anything
about that, but if the French want anything more here
and expect us to do more, I think they had better let
us advertise the fact that these plants are paid for
by foreigners."

To show you, the President of the United States
himself did not know that this plant expansion at Martin,
Pratt-Whitney and at Wright was paid for by foreign money.
If he does not know, how can the man on the street know

62

-13-

it? He did not know it until I told him yesterday
at lunch. All this talking which I have done at

Hartford has spread it out that these plants are being paid for and that our taxpayers don't pay a cent
and I take it now that you are where you don't worry
so much, but last summer you were worried. Today it
does not worry you if it is reprinted in France.
Mr. Bloch-Laine: I don't think it would matter

at all, if it is not printed that all capital expendi-

ture we not only have to pay the cost of expansion but
income tax on it and income tax on the profits of the

income.

Mr. Purvis: Which is at present a total of 25%
HM,Jr: You are dealing with a lot of Yankees.
Mr. Bloch-Laine: I have been ten years in the
Treasury. I know it is not so easy with fiscal problems.
HM,Jr; I can assure you gentlemen that the publicity which we have been getting this last week is
good for the United States and will be helpful in handling
additional orders. I don't want to have a powder plant
built in the United States without the public knowing it.
Mr. Purvis: No.
HM,Jr: Without our public knowing about it, because I learned my lesson when that poor French aviator
dropped out of the plane and that taught me my lesson.
Now, on the molybdenum thing -- not a murmur! All of
this stuff, nothing at all, except letters from Chambers
of Commerce inviting me to come to their city and see

what they can offer. But I don't want some Senator
Nye to discover through some way that there is a powder
plant being built out in Missouri and he thinks there is
something wrong about it and then gets legislationfront
through
forbidding us to export powder. If it is on the
page -- only makes the front page if it is a secret.

France.

Mr. Purvis: I think that's true.
It is true. I don't know what's good in
HM,Jr:

63

- 14 Mr. Bloch-Laine: You ought to know much better

what 18 good here.

Mr. Purvis: You kill the news value by giving out
something of value, but it's front page if it is secret.
Any reservation I had in regard to publicity is not about
the fact we are paying, only the question of whether we pay
over two or three years instead of one.
HM,Jr: You go over that with Sullivan, and the explanation to the press would be done by him, and if you can get
together with him it would be all right with me.
Mr. Purvis: Getting to another subject, these various

alloys. I have one or two points. May I go into those?
HM,Jr: Please.

Mr. Purvis: Tungsten. I previously put on the table

some information and then advised you that an hour later we
had a warning cable saying that information that had been
sent us looked as though it might be wrong and if we would

give them a little time they would send us the correct pic-

ture. I now have it. This is in regard to stuff that

was in Indo-China, the parcel we wanted to know how much
was tungsten and how much was antimony. The French Govern-

ment, I understand, has been negotiating for its own use
for 4500 tons, which is at present lying in Indo-China.
HM,Jr: Tungsten?

Mr. Purvis: Wolfra -- which, I think, is the descrip-

tion of concentrates of tungsten. Completion of the purchase depends upon satisfactory technical reports. To get
these, experts have been sent to Indo-China. If that
negotiation is completed, Allied requirements will be taken
care of until the end of 1940. They have also been considering further purchases through China during 1940, but
those are not for consumption purposes; they are for economic
warfare. The British Ambassador has recently stated that
difficulties have arisen in that negotiation, but they are
now proceeding smoothly. This 18 economic warfare. The
Chinese were earmarking for the United States 1500 tons,
at $16.00. That will not be $16.00 per ton, but per unit.

64

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HM,Jr: Do you know anything about it?

Capt. Collins: We are about up to our limit;
have a slight reservation only, but we have worked in
very close touch with him on the tungsten situation.
Mr. Purvis: Our information was it was being

earmarked with the hope of getting armaments. And the
Chinese are determined apparently to keep up, even 1f
it has to be done overland, 400 tons monthly deliveries
to Russia, because they must get arms supplies from them.

HM,Jr: That's new. 400 tons of tungsten over-

land to Russia?

Mr. Purvis: That's right. The Chinese say they
are determined to do that, because it is a means of getting the things with which to fight Japan. That seems,
as you say, to be the only new thing in it.
HM,Jr: That's new to me.
Mr. Purvis: On the molybdenum, I thought I ought

to mention that I am still in negotiation with Climax
with a view to seeing if we can meet their request for
formulation of contracts by the consumers in England

and France so as to give them some assurance to handle

their position.

HM,Jr: That has not been consummated?

Mr. Purvis: Have not.Got a cable back yesterday.
I was speaking with Mr. Hochschild day before yesterday

and I find it takes about a week, back and forth. When
we were talking with the Climax people, they did mention
that Italy's requirements tend to show an increase now,
and orders placed in December and January are quite considerably higher. And if there were anything at all
that could be done to watch that from this end so we
could have a counter-check, we would appreciate it very
much.

HM,Jr: Tell Harry to watch that.

Mr. Purvis: I am still without ability to reply

65

-16-

to you on the New Caledonia Mine, on nickel. They
cabled a few days ago apologizing for the delay and
say they are doing their utmost to get the information
and will cable.
They return to chrome, colombian and tantalum

and ask whether, as principal importer of the ores,
whether anything you can do to buy ores, which would
tend to stop the supply being available to others.
They don't know what your ore position is, but as you
are the principal importers thereof, if you haven't
particularly good stocks they would like very much that
they should be coralled as a help in preventing them
from leaking out as substitutes.
Copper. Every bit of information we have had
indicates that that original rumor I brought to you
about a very big lot of copper, 60,000 tons, from the
United States to Russia and probably destined, some of
it, for Germany, has a very substantial measure of
truth in it and shipments to Mexico are very worrying
to us.

HM,Jr: But they haven't got any ships and that's
talk, it is being transshipped to Manzanilla to Russian
the trouble and from what I make out, from the way you

boats. They pick it up there.

Mr. Purvis: Yes. That's what we

HM,Jr: They pick it up there and put it from
into
Russian ships and they sail. These boats sail
New York, go down to Manzanilla, and then transship it
into Russian ships. That's what it looks like.
Mr. Purvis: Yes.
HM,Jr: But they are doing everything they can
to get the stuff out of the United States as fast as
possible, but on account of shortage of ships it does
not move very fast.
Mr. Purvis: No.

it.

HM,Jr: But there isn't anything we can do about

66

-17-

Mr. Purvis: There is nothing you can do?
HM,Jr: No.

Mr. Purvis: Industrial diamonds. I have put

a memorandum on the table there and I suppose all we

can askiyou to do is anything you could do to support

this voluntary action we are trying to arrive at in the
trade; anything you can properly do in the way of regu-

lations. It's a difficult thing. It's export and

Customs does not apply to exports.

HM,Jr: Last two or three months, sales of industrial diamonds have been unimportant, but there is

in the process of consummation a sale of $500,000 worth.

Mr. Purvis: Oh, yes.
HM,Jr: of industrial diamonds. We know all

about it. This is delicate and don't let -- just keep

it between you two gentlemen. If and when this leaves
the country

Mr. Purvis: Yes.
HM,Jr:

I think we can let you know and where

it is going to leave and how. But, please, please!
Mr. Purvis: All right. I have had the clamps

on for some time.

HM,Jr: I would not even make notes of it in your
Mission. Just keep it in your own mind. Don't make
any notes or anything. But if we can find out, we know
who is making the sale; we know what kind of diamonds
they are, and what we are going to try to find out is how
it will leave the country and when.
Mr. Purvis: We will make no note of it.
HM,Jr: I don't know how successful we will be.
We were tipped off by one of the tool people, you see?
Mr. Purvis: Exactly!
HM,Jr: But I don't think you had better leave

67

-18-

any office memorandum around. And, incidentally,
the person who is handling that for me is Mr. Gaston.
And 1f he hears anything he may phone you direct. You

will just get a phone call.
Mr. Purvis: I see. And I shall know what it
is.

Thank you very much.

HM,Jr: But it is one of those things I would not

want to get caught at myself.

Capt. Collins: That's perfectly true.
Mr. Purvis: We won't make any office memorandum.

Mr. Bloch-Laine: Save time too.

Mr. Purvis: Is there any hopeful news of anybody

over here to discuss anything?

HN,Jr: Just leave it this way. Better this way.

They can get word to you. I am sure Ambassador Bullitt,

when he comes over there will be plenty of news.
soon.

Mr. Purvis: I saw in the papers he's coming quite

I think that's all for the moment that I have to

bother you about.

HM,Jr: I don't know of anything else. You

gentlemen don't know about the new air order?

Mr. Purvis: Nothing except a cable last week.
They really expected to be able to advise me, but these
cables come through at any instant and we shall be hearing through the day and if anything comes along we shall

let you, know.

Mr. Bloch-Laine: I hope the machine tool incident
has not been too much on their minds for that plan.

Mr. Purvis: We tried to avoid it getting too

much on their minds.

68

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Mr. Bloch-Laine: We told them that caused the

old order not being delivered, but they did not say
anything.

HM,Jr: It's much better, through this investigation

that I am making, to know where you are at.

Mr. Purvis: I think that's the big advance with
really everybody. We shall begin to think in terms of
the whole problem and, after all, 1f the problem is sticking in the background and comes up after, we are much worse
off.

HM,Jr: And 1f any new orders do materialize, I
am impressed that the machine tool people should sit in
at the beginning, which they have not. They have been
kept at arms' length on this thing.
Mr. Purvis: And, of course, the engine makers
have a perfect reply -- "but you did bind upon us tremendous amount of secrecy". And also I don't think
they have quite known where they stood.

HM,Jr: I don't suppose, certainly in this country,
I don't suppose there has ever been an expansion like has
taken place in the last six months. It's perfectly extraordinary and when you see these plants they have built in
2-1/2 months, I don't know of anything like it in the
United States. It may have gone on in other countries.
And then equip it and train people, and the amazing thing
is -- and we are checking it -- they keep saying they have
no trouble in getting all the labor they want. They are
checking that in the Labor Department. Lubin is doing
job on that. But they keep saying "We can get all the
a

labor we want".

Mr. Bloch-Laine: Great advantage in this country
that labor does not mind changing places. Very difficult
to transport an Englishman or a Frenchman from his home
town. Understand here if there is work to be done, they
go and get it.
HM,Jr: What I found -- for instance, at Baltimore.
They have gone as much as 200 miles and a great many of
the men came great distances each day in their own car.

69

-20-

Mr. Bloch-Laine: Of course, that helps.

Mr. Purvis: Yes; quite!
HM,Jr: Do you know of anything?

Capt. Collins: No, sir.
000-00o

70

TREASURY DEPARTMENT
INTER OFFICE COMMUNICATION

DATE February 7, 1940.
TO

FROM

Subject:

Secretary Margenthau

Mr. Haas LeA.

Notes on meeting held in Secretary Morgenthau's office
on February 7, 1940, from 9:15 A.M. to 10:30 A.M., on

ways and means to secure adequate machine tools in order

to increase sharply the production of airplane engines
in the United States.

Present: For the entire meeting:
Secretary Morgenthau

Mr. Charles J. Stillwell, President,

Warner-Swasey Machine Tool Manufacturers.

Mr. Tell Berna, representing the
National Machine Tool Builders' Association.
Dr. Lubin,
Commissioner of Labor Statistics.
Captain Collins
Mr. Haas

Coming into the meeting at 10:00 A.M.:
Mr. J. C. Ward, General Manager,
Pratt-Whitney Engine Company.

Mr. P. W. Brown,
Wright Aeronautical Company.

The Secretary opened the meeting by saying that he had
travelled around some since the last meeting and had visited

the Pratt-Whitney and the Wright Aeronautical plants. He said
he was impressed with the current activity in the plants -training methods which were being employed to recruit new labor,
and two large plants he had seen which had been financed completely
with foreign money. The Secretary then turned to Mr. Stillwell
and asked him what he had found out since the last meeting.

71

Secretary Morgenthau -2-

Mr. Stillwell gave the following figures on foreign orders
now on the books of the machine tool builders: England - $34
millions, France - $55 millions, Russia - $11 millions, and Japan $16 millions, making a total of about $115 millions. To this he
would add another $10 millions to cover miscellaneous orders
which had escaped their survey, bringing the total to $125 millions.
Thus, he said, the foreign orders amounted to approximately $125
millions out of a total order backlog of around $350 millions.
Mr. Berna then proceeded to tell the Secretary in some detail
what he had accomplished since the last meeting. He said that the
airplane engine builders had supplied him with a list of machine

tool orders which were giving the airplane engine companies trouble.
He had then got in touch with the machine tool companies involved,

via long distance telephone. In all, he said, 31 machine tool
companies were involved. Of these 31 companies, he found that 4
had, prior to his conversation with them, got in touch with the

airplane engine companies and had worked out satisfactory delivery
programs. Of the 27 remaining machine tool companies, 19 had, as
a result of his telephone conversations with them, worked out means
for improving their delivery schedules to the airplane engine companies. The 8 remaining companies were not able to improve the
delivery schedules previously promised. These 8 companies, Mr.
Berna explained, gave the orders of the engine manufacturers
the right-of-way over other orders at the time the orders were

placed. In total, Mr. Berna continued, an improvement in delivery

has been worked out which on the average has amounted to an advancement of 4 weeks in delivery schedules. This much improvement, he

maintained, was very substantial.

The Secretary commented that when he was at the Wright plant

they were "tickled pink" at the progress made so far by the machine
tool builders. He said they had showed him a list of 1200 machine
tool orders on which the delivery as of that date should have been
57 percent whereas the delivery actually was only 26 percent. But,
the Secretary continued, there was very good feeling toward the
machine tool industry and the engine manufacturers were cheered up.
The Secretary told the machine tool representatives at the meeting
that they had done a swell job.
The Secretary asked if machine tools on order for Russia or
Japan might be switched to the Wright Aeronautical Company. Mr.
Berna expressed the feeling that not much could be accomplished
in this manner. Mr. Berna went on to say that the Russian orders
were for large type machines in connection with big gun manufacturing, etc. and were not the type needed by the airplane engine
manufacturers. He said they had delayed one French order to help
the American airplane engine manufacturers and they probably would
hear from the French on this.

72

Secretary Morgenthau -3-

Mr. Stillwell then posed a question for the Secretary, on
which, he said, he would like to have an answer. Mr. Stillwell
asked what the status of a machine tool manufacturer would be if
he held up a French or Japanese order where a tight legal contract
existed and partial cash payment and delivery of a part of the
order had already been made. The Secretary said he felt that the
courts would favor the buyer and then asked Mr. Stillwell to give
him a specific example. Mr. Stillwell described a situation with
regard to his own company, Warner-Swasey, in connection with a
French contract. The Secretary then asked him to have his lawyer
draw up a legal agreement which would release the Warner-Swasey

Company from liability as a result of any delay in the delivery
of the order. The Secretary said he would then take the matter
up with Mr. Bloch-Laine and Mr. Purvis and ask them to sign the
agreement. The Secretary indicated that the British and French
would have to do this in fairness to the American manufacturers.
Mr. Stillwell commented that that would be a perfectly fair arrangement. The Secretary said he could ask France and England to do
this but he could not ask Russia and Japan to do it. It then
developed in the conversation that the particular case described
by Mr. Stillwell was not a pending situation but one which had
already been taken care of, and that he had asked the Secretary
the question so he might be in a position to know how to handle
other similar cases when they arose. The Secretary commented that
Mr. Stillwell just wanted to see how he would answer his question.
Mr. Stillwell said this was true, but there no doubt would be
similar situations involving other companies with which they would
have to deal.

Mr. Stillwell went on to say that this was the story to date,
and that it did not look bad from the machine tool industry's
point of view. He added that Mr. Berna had a few situations he
would work on during the week. The whole trouble really had originated in poor planning at the start, he said, which was not the
fault of the machine tool industry. The Secretary asked Mr.
Stillwell if any one in the machine tool industry had gotten his
"back up", and Mr. Berna replied that not one had.
Mr. Stillwell said he had one more point which he would like
to take up with the Secretary, and that was the enlargement of
machine tool plants. He stated that no machine tool manufacturer
wants to enlarge his plant capacity. Mr. Stillwell felt, however,
that plant expansion would be necessary to meet the present situation and that plant expansion should therefore be encouraged.
He went on to say that the Kearney & Trecker Corporation of

Milwaukee, Wisconsin, had made a substantial expansion in their
plant capacity which had been financed by French money. The French
order, he said, amounted to about $12 millions for about 1500

73

Secretary Morgenthau

machine tools. The price given the French included the original
cost of the plant construction. He said that the French would,
of course, want to utilize the production of this new plant for
themselves, and that while plant expansion financed by foreign
money was perfectly satisfactory it could not be expected to help
in meeting expanded production for domestic requirements.
The Secretary went on to point out that the airplane engine
manufacturers in their program for 1940 and 1941 had already made
allowance for expanded domestic requirements, and that if the
billion dollar order should come from abroad the resulting need
of money for machine tool plant expansion would be taken up at
that time. Mr. Stillwell said that the point he wanted to make
was that the foreign buyer should be impressed with the fact that
the necessary plant expansion would have to go back to the machine
tool manufacturer as well as the airplane engine manufacturer.
Captain Collins said that the British and French were aware of
that and had been so advised. He said he had told them also that
plant expansion might even involve parts manufacturers, etc.
The Secretary said that Mr. Stillwell had given Mr. Sullivan,
Assistant Secretary of the Treasury, a figure of about $5 millions
which might be required for plant expansion in the machine tool
industry. The Secretary said he understood Mr. Stillwell's point
to be that if the billion dollar order came through the machine
tool industry would expect money for plant expansion.
The Secretary asked Mr. Stillwell what kind of machine tools
the French had ordered from the Milwaukee machine tool company.
Mr. Stillwell said they were mostly standard milling machines,
together with some large machines used in gun manufacturing. Mr.
Berna then stated that the General Machinery Corporation of
Hamilton, Ohio, was working on a Russian order for machine tools
to be used in the building of a 168 foot, 18 inch caliber gun.
(G. A. Rentschler is President of the corporation.) He said the
order had come in long before the Finnish invasion. In fact, Mr.
Berna said, the order may already have been shipped as he had seen
it six months ago. The Secretary asked if there were any machines
of this type being made for Japan. Mr. Berna said he did not
know, but the Japanese orders were frequently for machine tools
of the more general type, many of them being peace time machine
tools, and that he understood some of these tools were being
shipped into North China.
Mr. Ward and Mr. Brown came into the meeting.

The Secretary asked Mr. Stillwell to outline the picture as
he saw it for the benefit of Mr. Ward and Mr. Brown. Mr. Stillwell
said he had reported to the Secretary that the machine tool order

74

Secretary Morgenthau

-5-

situation did not now appear so serious as it looked last week.

He said he had contacted many of the machine tool companies

engaged in the manufacture of machine tools for airplane engine
companies and as a result delivery schedules had been stepped up
from 4 to 5 weeks.

Mr. Stillwell said he had been concerned because of the fact
that he had been given the impression the machine tool industry
was failing to make deliveries when promised. Mr. Ward interposed
saying this was true. Mr. Stillwell said he could not find that
such a situation existed. Mr. Ward commented that delivery
schedules had been broken on 277 machine tool orders placed by

his company (Pratt-Whitney). Mr. Brown, of the Wright Aeronautical
Company, said the situation was about the same with regard to his
company.

Mr. Ward said that he brought to Washington last week a list
of orders involved in their "April program", which was their most
immediate consideration, but that he now had a complete order
picture with regard to the Pratt-Whitney Company. This he presented to the group. He said the company placed 849 orders and
complete deliveries had been received on 295 of these, leaving
554 orders still due. Of the 554 due, 227 were already behind
promised delivery dates. Mr. Berna interjected, saying that
Mr. Ward had not given them these items. Mr. Ward said he had
just made up the complete list. Mr. Ward continued, saying that
last week he had made up hurriedly a list of the most critical
mechine tool orders - only those involved in the so-called "April
program". Mr. Stillwell remarked that from the looks of that
list, Mr. Berna would not have any idle time.
The Secretary commented that the information given by Mr.
Ward and Mr. Brown made the situation look different. Mr. Stillwell
said it made the situation look very different. Mr. Ward said he
appreciated greatly what the machine tool people had already done.
Mr. Berna said that the delivery promises which Mr. Ward mentioned
were made under unusual circumstances and the delay in delivery
could not be entirely attributed to the machine tool industry.
He said that most of the orders originated last September and the
machine tool companies were not supplied with drawings or specifications and no formal orders had been transmitted. He stated
that the formal orders had to be held up until the Neutrality Bill
was enacted. Practically all that the September orders meant
until that time, he said, was that a reservation of capacity in
the machine tool plants had been made. Mr. Ward commented that
nevertheless some of the machine tool companies had lived up to
their September promises. As an example, he mentioned the WarnerSwasey Company, Mr. Stillwell's company.

75

Secretary Morgenthau

-6-

The Secretary then asked Mr. Brown to present his picture.
Mr. Brown said they were getting about 25 percent of their expected
machine tool deliveries. Mr. Berna said he did not have a com-

plete list of the Wright machine tool orders. Mr. Brown said he
had a complete list with him and would furnish it to Mr. Berna
today.

Captain Collins, on the basis of a telephone conversation
he had had last evening with Mr. Kreusser, reported for the
Allison Company. If the machine tool orders were delivered as
promised, the Allison Company would be okey, but if deliveries
could be made sooner than previously indicated it would
help the Allison Company's situation.
The Secretary asked whether in view of this new information
it might not be possible that there were some orders arising from
abroad on which deliveries might be diverted. Mr. Stillwell said
any such orders would be largely French or British.
The Secretary said he had asked Mr. Purvis and Mr. Bloch-Laine
to stand by, and asked the representatives of the machine tool
industry and airplane engine manufacturers if they wanted to see
them. Mr. Stillwell said they had more work to do before talking
to Mr. Purvis. The Secretary said that in that case he would hold
open the time between 3 and 4 o'clock this afternoon in case they
wished to see him.

The Secretary said he would like to have another meeting with
the representatives and be given a progress report on February 21,
1940.

76
NEW YORK STATE COLLEGE OF AGRICULTURE
AGRICULTURAL EXPERIMENT STATION

CORNELL UNIVERSITY
ITHACA. NEW YORK

DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURAL ECONOMICS AND FARM MANAGEMENT

February 7, 1940
The Honorable Henry Morgenthau, Jr.
United States Treasury
Washington, D.C.
Dear Henry $

After long and careful consideration, I have decided to refuse
the opportunity that I spoke to you about on the telephone
yesterday. In view of all the circumstances, and in spite
of the attractiveness of some features to a person in my
circumstances, I do not think it wise to accept.
I appreciate sincerely the frank comments you gave me. They

were very helpful in reaching a reasoned decision on a difficult
problem.

With warm personal regards, I am

Cordially yours,
WIM/NEB

Bhiya
W.I.Myers

77

FEB 7m 1940

Dear Mr. Chens

I very such appreciate your keeping no in contact
with recent developments in connection with the Export-

Import Bank loan. I sincerely hope your efforts will
be successful, and take this opportunity to assure you
of my continuing cooperation and syspathy.

with kindest regards,
Sincerely yours,
(Signed) R Morgenthan, Jr.

Secretary of the Treasury.

Mr. Kwang Pa Chen,

630 Fifth Avenue,
New York, New York.

you

PALFICE COPY

prefere answer
H. White
KWANG PU CHEN

78

mL

ROOM 1918

630 FIFTH AVENUE
NEW YORK

January 28d 1940
Dear her. Cochran:-

will you be good

Enough give the Endors
letter 15 Secretary hurgerthan
personally tomorrow worming,

monday I expect the in
Washington worday afternoon

and hope to rece you then
or on Tuesday warning
Very Sincerely your

to there

79

KWANG PU CHEN
ROOM 1018

630 FIFTH AVENUE
NEW YORK

January 28, 1940

Dear Secretary Morgenthau:

Since I saw you last Dr. Hu Shih, our
Ambassador, has been in close touch with the State
Department, although he has not been able to see the
Secretary personally.
Dr. W. W. Yen, former Prime Minister of
China, and our Ambassador saw the President last
Friday and were greatly heartened by his attitude
and sympathy. The President told them he would en-

deavor to have the thirty million dollar limitation

on the Export-Import Bank loans modified so as to

permit that amount of additional credits to be
advanced to China.

Last Wednesday our Ambassador and I had an

excellent forty-five minute talk with Mr. Jesse Jones
who seemed entirely satisfied with the business of
Universal and with the Chinese situation. As to the
possible amount of an additional loan, he said that

was up to Congress and then he explained about the

thirty million dollar limitation. But he indicated

he would make the existing $25,000,000 loan a revolving
credit and give the additional balance of $5,000,000,

which is all that could be given under the present

form of the thirty million dollar limitation. As

Universal has repaid over $2,000,000, Mr. Jones said
this meant he could give us a minimum of $7,000,000

if the bill passes as originally drawn, and he said

he would do so. of course, we urgently stressed the
vital importance of China obtaining a large credit-up to $75,000,000--and pointed out that with England,

France and Germany at war the United States should

obtain most of their former business. Our impression
was that Mr. Jones would help.

-2-

Secretary Morgenthau

January 28, 1940

Encouragement is being given at the Hill

through various friends. I am working actively with

Mr. Lawrence Morris, and we are quietly organizing

help in a variety of ways.

Your help to the cause of China has been
absolutely invaluable and your kindness to me
personally has touched my heart too deeply for me to

put into words. But I hope, nevertheless, you can
understand how grateful we are. Not having ability

to use words we have tried desperately hard to prove
our appreciation by more than living up to your

expectations in spite of the terrible life and death

hardships we are having in China.

With kindest personal regards,

there

Sincerely yours,

The Honorable Henry Morgenthau, Jr.
Secretary of The Treasury
Washington, D. C.

80

81

February 7. 1940.

Dear Mr. Keeshin:

On behalf of the Secretary I want to
thank you for your letter of February 5th,
enclosing a copy of one you have received

from Mr. C. W. Van Patter, in regard to

various activities in China. I know that the
Secretary will be much interested in what
Mr. Van Patter says.
Sincerely yours,

(Signed) H. S. Klotz
H. S. Klots,
Private Secretary.

Mr. J. L. Keeshin,
President, Keeshin Freight Lines,
Incorporated,
221 West Roosevelt Road,

Chicago, Illinois.
GEF/dbs

82

February 7. 1940.

Dear Mr. Keeshins

On behalf of the Secretary I want to
thank you for your letter of February 5th,
enclosing a copy of one you have received

from Mr. C. W. Van Patter, in regard to

various activities in China. I know that the
Secretary will be much interested in what
Mr. Van Patter says.

Sincerely yours,

(Signed) H. S. Klotz
H. S. Xlots,
Private Secretary.

Mr. J. L. Keeshin,
President, Keeshin Freight Lines,
Incorporated,
221 West Roosevelt Read,

Chisago, Illinois.

GEF/dbs

83

February 7, 1940.

Dear Mr. Keeshin:

On behalf of the Secretary I want to

thank you for your letter of February 5th,
enclosing a copy of one you have received

from Mr. C. W. Van Patter, in regard to

various activities in China. I know that the
Secretary will be much interested in what
Mr. Van Patter says.
Sincerely yours,

(Signed) H. S. Klotz
H. S. Klots,
Private Secretary.

Mr. J. L. Keeshin,
President, Keeshin Freight Lines,
Incorporated,
221 West Roosevelt Road,

Chicago, Illinois.

GEF/dbs

84
KEESHIN FREIGHT Lines, INC.

221 WEST ROOSEVELT ROAD

J.L.KEESHIN

CHICAGO

PRESIDENT

February 5, 1940

The Honorable Henry J. Morgenthau, Jr.,
Secretary of the Treasury,
Treasury Building,
Washington, D.C.

My dear Mr. Secretary:
Enclose herewith a copy

of a letter I received today from Mr. C. W.

Van Patter, from Kunming, China, written under

date of January 2, 1940, which I think you will
find most interesting.
Very truly yours,

J. L. Keeshin

JLK:LR
Enc.

85

COPY

January 2, 1940
Kunming, China

Dear Mr. Keeshin:

Just four days ago I received your letter of November 24, and
was very pleased to hear from you and to know that your health has improved to
where you are feeling quite well again. It was also very gratifying to know
that you are satisfied with our accomplishments here in China up to date, and
you may rest assured that we are all doing our best to live up to the trust
that you placed in us at the time you sent us on this very important mission to
China.

My work at Chungking is temporarily finished but I will be very
busy in the Kunming territory for the next month or more. The shop equipment
is arriving here in Kunming from Haiphong, over the French railroad and from
Rangoon to Cashio, also via rail and then on to Kunming with trucks. More than
a hundred tons have arrived during the past few days and I am going to make

every effort to see that it is properly distributed to the various shops and
garages throughout free China, within the next thirty to forty days. Our previous

plan was to ship all the shop equipment into Kweiyang, via truck and make distribution
from that point but due to the Japanese capturing Pakoi, and later Nanning, and
cutting off the highway transportation from French Indo China has made it necessary
to ship all the incoming freight from the South either over the French milroad to
Kunming, or from Rangoon over the Burma railroad to Lashio. Both of these roads
are running behind on their tonnage which has caused much delay to bringing in
the maintenance equipment. However, the prospects for shipping in the balance
looks very good at the present time and I believe we will have most of the shops
equipped and operating within the next three to four months.
The materials and supplies that have arrived up to date are
still securely crated and very little damage from shipping has been noted, with
the exception of a few minor damages to batteries, etc. In fact a great many of
the boxes contain only one item and can be forwarded to their destination without
recording.

The two hundred International tractors are still in Haiphong,
but it is thought that they will be able to bring these into Kunning over the
railroad providing the new highway South and East from here into Indo China is

not finished in the near future. when this road is completed truck trans-

portation can be resumed from the French territory. The Chinese are very optimistic so
about being able to drive the Japanese soldiers out of the Nanning sector and if

that highway will also be open to traffic again as soon as this happens. I am
somewhat skeptical about this happening in the very near future as it is my opinion
that the Japanese will be able to hold Nanning for quite some time. Of course, we
all hope not and I certainly hope that my guess is wrong.

Mr. Bassi had just returned to Chungking, a few days before I left
from a trip over the new highway from Janyi to Lungchang. He says this road operated
from Kunning to Chungking, and will speed up the freight movement considerably in-

sofar as the interior of China is concerned.

The Burma highway has been open at all times since the rainy S eason

was over which has been a great help to China, in view of their other present

difficulties. They are diligently working to improve it and I understand it can be

00

-2-

r. J. L. Keeshin

January 2, 1940
Kunming, China

made into quite a fair road in comparison to other Chinese highways. The highway
northwest of Chungking through Lanchow to Russia, is being rapidly improved but the

distance is so great that the gasoline transportation is quite a problem. Incidentally,

Mr. New, an Assistant Director of the Northwest Highway Administration, recently
informed me that they had discovered oil near Lanchow, and were using primitive

methods of refining to obtain as much gasoline from it as possible, to aid them in

their present shortage. If this enterprise develops, it will certainly be a great

aid to the highway transportation, particularly now that the Chinese dollar is down
to where it takes from twelve to fifteen of them to purchase a gallon of gasoline in

the Chungking area and north to Lanchow. At the time I met Mr. "ew, he was on his
way to Hongkong, for the purpose of investigating and possibly purchasing some more
modern oil refining equipment to be used in the abovementioned locality.
The New China Transport Corporation which will control approximately

thirty-five hundred trucks and buses became a reality the first of January, 1940.
of
The trucks and buses in the Northwest will still be operated under the Ministry

Communications, so, therefore, shops and garages will have to be established to
maintain this equipment as well as the vehicles under the China Transport control.

might mention that I came to Kunming by plane and that the car
will be here later as Mr. Lin is bringing it down from Chungking, next week via Kweiyang.
I

I think that if I keep on riding in planes, I will learn to like them quite well.

Mr. Sheahan and Mr. Bassi are both enjoying good health and had a very
pleasant Christmas, thanks to Dr. and Mrs. Pan.

With very best wishes to you and yours, I remain
Sincerely yours,

(signed)

C. W. Van Patter

87

STRICTLY
TREASURY CONFIDENTIAL
DEPARTMENT
INTER-OFFICE COMMUNICATION

DATE February 7, 1940
Secretary Morgenthau

TO

M

FROM Mr. Cochran

After receiving from Mr. Glasser this afternoon the data on which to
base my inquiry, I telephoned the Climax Molybdenum Company in New York.

President Schott was absent on the Pacific Coast until the end of the
month, so I spoke with Mr. Thorpe.

I asked Mr. Thorpe if he could give me any information concerning a
shipment of 786 barrels of molybdenum concentrates, each weighing approximately 625 pounds, which I understood was at Los Angeles awaiting shipment
to Russia on the Russian steamship Vladimir Mayakovski. Mr. Thorpe promptly
stated that this was molybdenum which his company had shipped from its mines
in Colorado and had received payment for before the moral embargo was imposed.

When I mentioned that we had word of a contemplated shipment of
$40,000.00 of molybdenum concentrates on board the steamship Nordryn from
New York for Russia, Mr. Thorpe stated that this was no molybdenum of theirs.
At least, there had been no sale of molybdenum by his company for export to

the barred countries since the embargo had gone into effect. All of their
orders to those countries had been cleared up early in December. All ship-

ments under these orders had left their plants and cash payment therefor had

been received upon presentation of bills of lading. Mr. Thorpe said that
they did not endeavor to trace shipments after they left their mines and

they had received payment therefor. He assured me most emphatically that
his company had entered into the embargo arrangement conscientiously and had

kept their word absolutely. I told him that the Secretary was most appreciative of their attitude, and that we were simply calling on them for advice

now since we are cognizant of the thorough cooperation which they were extending the Government.

Incidentally, Mr. Thorpe mentioned that a similar inquiry had been made
of his company by Mr. W. A. Janssen, representing the Department of State.

KMR.

88

TREASURY DEPARTMENT
INTER-OFFICE COMMUNICATION

DATE February 7. 1940

a

TO

Secretary Morgenthau

FROM

Mr. Cochran

STRICTLY CONFIDENTIAL

This morning I received the visit of an old friend, Mr. Bernard Carter,

partner in the Paris banking firm of Morgan & Company. Mr. Carter dropped
in to see me on his way to keep an appointment with Mr. Warren Pierson at the

Export-Import Bank.

Mr. Carter showed me correspondence exchanged between his Paris bank

and

the New York firm of J. P. Morgan & Company in regard to the request of the
Government of Spain for financial assistance from American governmental or
banking sources. The needs had been outlined to the bank in Paris by Mr.
Arburus, of the Bank of Spain, who had called on me in Paris a few times,
and at whose request I had submitted the initial request for a cotton credit
for Spain last Spring.
Mr. Arburua mentioned that Spain needs:

(a) 200 to 300,000 tons of wheat:

(b) 250,000 bales of cotton, in addition to that now being received
under the outstanding Export-Import Bank credit;

(c) 60,000 tons of sugar;

(d) Important amounts of fertilizer;
(e) $1,300,000 worth of oil per month (this is now being provided by
the Texas Corporation, but longer credit terms are desired).
The total requirements are for American products approximating
$40,000,000.

The Spaniards desire to retain as the basis for their monetary system
the $40,000,000 in gold which they still have. They have recently received
from the Swiss Bank Corporation in Basel a credit of 20,000,000 Swiss Francs and
500,000 pounds sterling against European securities.
The Spanish authorities have about $5,000,000 of American securities. which
they have requisitioned. Of these, approximately $1,380,000 are American shares
and $380,000 are United States Government Bonds. The Spaniards would like to
borrow from Morgan & Company against these securities. Mr. Thomas Lamont of
the New York firm has been in touch with the State Department which has informed
him in regard to pending negotiations with respect to obtaining from the present
Spanish Government recognition of certain American rights. Mr. Carter said
that his people did not desire to do anything which would contravene American

89
-2-

governmental policy in the slightest. He then raised the question as to
whether there would be a market here for Spanish silver, Arburus reporting
that his Government still has 100,000,000 duros (5 peso silver coins), each
containing 22 1/2 fine grains of silver. (This sum would be worth around
$25,000,000 at our price of 35$ per ounce). I reminded Mr. Carter that our
last purchase of Spanish silver had led to litigation being instituted
against us by the authorities now in power in Spain, and that questions
might naturally arise as to whether we would make any contract with Spain

to purchase her silver in present circumstances. Mr. Carter did not ask
me for any definite answer on this but would be happy to report back to

Spain some means by which that country might obtain the seriously required
raw materials from this country.

90

February 7. 1940

0

0

F

Y

Dear Mr. Ambasonder:

I have wash pleasure in adknowledging the reseipt of your

letter Number 228 of February 6. 1940. in which you have in.
formed me of the decision of your Government to accept the
terms of the arrangement reached with Mr. Traphagea as repre-

sentative of the Foreign Bondholders Protective Council,
Incorporated. through conferences hold under the suspiees of

my Government. I shall be gind to inform you as seen as the
communication in a similar sense which is expected from
Mr. Traphagen may be received.

Permit me to express to you my gemine appreciation of

the spirit of cooperation which you have shown in our con-

forences. It has been a real pleasure to work with you.
with reasved assurances of my very high esteen, I am,
Mr. Ambassados

Very sincerely yours,
(Signed) H. Morgenthau, Jr.

Secretary of the Treasury.
The Renorable,

Gabriel Turbay,
Colombian Ambussader,
Washington.

INC/

By pan 2/7/40

Im

91

Shakington

No. 226

February 6th, 1940
To the Benerable

The Secretary of the treasury.
Washington, 9. 6.

Dear Mr. Secretary:

By Government has authorised - to accept as its behalf the
proposal which you suggested as the conference hold unier your

suspiese, with Mr. traphages as representative of the Foreign

Deacholders Protective Council, Inc., - Thereday, February 1st,
and which I untertook to received to my Government. The terms of

this proposal are the followings
(1) Every effort will be made between new and the 15th

of this month to arrive as a parents settlement
of the direct dollar debt of the Republic of Colombia.

(2) If, by the 15th of February. 1 a permanent sottiemost shall not have been reason, my Government will

apply $1,750.000 for the service during the calender

year 1940. of the outstanding - of $45.000.000
of the Columbian Government dollar isease of 1987 and

1926, as follows

so my the 1940 of the two above temas as
the rate of 3% year

$2,390.000

to apply to the purchase in open market
for amortization of beads of made issues
(3) Approval w my Government of this temperary arranger

400.000

92

meat assumes approval thereof by the Foreign Bond-

holders Protective Council, Inc. and recommendation

to the holders of the Deate by the Council, without
any reservations.
I should add that my Government's decision to accept

this temporary solution is made is appreciation of the helpful
mediation which you and other high officials of the Government
of the United States have offered, and in the hope that by those
means the permant settlement of the debt will be brought seener

to realisation.
My Government awaits the reply of the Council in order to

work out the details to give effect to this temporary settlement, in case that proves to be necessary. It will be appreciated,
therefore, if you can send me as soon as it is convenient, the
Council's statement on its decision.
Permit me to assure you, Mr. Secretary, of ay very high
esteen.

Respectfully yours,

(Signed) Cabriel Turbay
Colombian Ambassador

FE

(Copy)

93

FEB 7 1940

Dear Mr. Wellest

I have pleasure in enclosing a copy of a letter
which I have today received from the Colombian Ashasendor.

indicating the decision of his Government to accept the
terms of the arrangement reached with Mr. Traphagen as

representative of the Foreign Bendholders Protective
Gennail, Incorporated, through conferences held under the
suspices of our governmental committee. A communication

in a similar sense is expected from Mr. Traphagen in the
innodiate future.

Permit - to express to you ay best thanks for the
cooperation which you so generously save toward achiev-

ing this settlement.
Sincerely yours.
(Signed) H. Morgenthau, Jr.

Secretary of the Treasury.
Enclosure:

Copy of letter dated
February 6. 1940.
The Henorable
Summer velles,

Under Secretary of State,
Washington, D. C.

By Messenger / of 2/9/40

m COLONBIA

94

Taskington
No. 228

February 6th, 1940
To the Senerable

The Secretary of the treasury.
Taskington, D. c.

Dear Mr. Secretary:

My Government has authorised me to accept on its behalf the
proposal which you suggested as the conference hold under your

suspiees, with Mr. Prephagea as representative of the Foreign
Bondholders Protective Council, Inc., on Thursday, February 1st,
and which I undertook to recommend to my Government. The terms of

this preposal are the followings
(1) Every effort will be made between now and the 15th
of this month to arrive at a permanent settlement

of the direct dollar debt of the Republic of Celebbia.
(2) If. by the 15th of February, such a permanent settle
ment shall not have been reached, my Government will

apply $1,750.000 for the service during the calendar
year 1940, of the outstanding amount of $45.000.000
of the Colombian Government dollar issues of 1927 and

1928, as follows:
To pay the 1940 coupons of the two above issues as

the rate of 3% a year

$1,350,000

To apply to the purchase in open market

for amortisation of boads of said issues.
(3) Approval by my Government of this temporary arrange

400.000

95

ment assumes approval thereof by the Foreign Bond-

holders Protective Council, Inc. and recommendation

to the helders of the Bends by the Genneil, without
say reservations.
I should add that ay Government's desision to accept

this temporary solution is made is appreciation of the helpful
mediation which you and other high officials of the Government
of the United States have offered, and in the hope that by those
means the permanent settlement of the debt will be brought soener

to realisation.
My Government swite the reply of the Council is order to

work out the details to give effect to this temporary settlement, in case that proves to be accessary. It will be appreciated,
therefore, if you can send me as SOON as it is convenient, the
Gennoil's statement on its decision.
Permit me to assure you, Mr. Secretary. of ay very high
esteen.

Respectfully yours,

(Signed) Cabriel Turbay
Colombian Ambassador

Fg

(Copy)

96

FEB 7 1940

Dear Mr. Presidents

I have pleasure in enclosing a copy of a letter
which I have today received from the Colombian Ambassador,

indicating the decision of his Government to accept the
terms of the arrangement reached with Mr. Traphages as

representative of the Foreign Sendholders Protective
Counsil, Incorporated, through conferences held under the
suspiese of our governmental committee. A communication

in a similar sense 10 expected from Mr. Traphagen in the
immediate future.
Sincerely yours,
(Signed) H. Morgenthau, Jr.

Secretary of the Treasury.

Enclosures

Copy of letter dated
February 6. 1940.
The President,
The white House.
KNG senk

By Massenger r 2/7/40

97
EMBAJADA DE COLOMBIA

Washington

No. 228

February 6th, 1940
To the Honorable

The Secretary of the Treasury,
Washington, D. C.

Dear Mr. Secretary:

My Government has authorised me to accept on its behalf the
proposal which you suggested at the conference held under your

auspices, with Mr. Traphagen as representative of the Foreign
Bondholders Protective Council, Inc., on Thursday, February 1st,
and which I undertook to recommend to my Government. The terms of

this proposal are the followings:
(1) Every effort will be made between now and the 15th
of this month to arrive at a permanent settlement

of the direct dollar debt of the Republic of Colombia.
(2) If, by the 15th of February, such a permanent settlement shall not have been reached, my Government will

apply $1,750.000 for the service during the calendar
year 1940, of the outstanding amount of $45.000.000
of the Colombian Government dollar issues of 1927 and

1928, as follows:
To pay the 1940 coupons of the two above issues at

the rate of 3% a year

$1.350.000

To apply to the purchase in open market

for amortisation of bonds of said issues
(3) Approval by my Government of this temporary arrange-

400.000

98
-2-

ment assumes approval thereof by the Foreign Bond-

holders Protective Council, Inc. and recommendation

to the holders of the Bonds by the Council, without
any reservations.
I should add that my Government's decision to accept

this temporary solution is made in appreciation of the helpful
mediation which you and other high officials of the Government of the United States have offered, and in the hope that
by these means the permanent settlement of the debt will be

brought sooner to realization.
My Government awaits the reply of the Council in order to

work out the details to give effect to this temporary settlement, in case that proves to be necessary. It will be appreciated,
therefore, if you can send me as soon as it is convenient, the
Council's statement on its decision.
Permit me to assure you, Mr. Secretary, of my very high
esteem.

Respectfully yours,

(Signed) Gabriel Turbay
Colombian Ambaseador

rg

(Copy)

99
FEB 7 1940

Dear Mr. Jeneat

I have pleasure in enclosing a copy of a letter
which I have today received from the Celembias Ambesendor.

indicating the desision of his Government to accept the
terms of the arrangement reached with Mr. Traphages as

representative of the Foreign Dontholders Protective
Council, Incorporated, through conferences hold under the
enopices of our governmental committee. A communication

is a similar sense is expected from Mr. Traphagea is the
immediate future.

Permit me to express to you ay best thanks for the
cooperation which you se generously gave toward achiev-

ing this settlement.
Sincerely yours.
(Signed) H. Morgenthau, Jr.

Secretary of the Treasury.
Inclosures

Jopy of letter dated
February 6. 1940.

-

The Reserable

Jesse a. Jense,

Administrator, Federal
Loan Agency.

By - from 2/1/46

100

REMAIN IN COLONBIA

Fashington
No. 226

February 6th, 1940
To the Honorable

The Secretary of the treasury.
Washington, D. C.

Dear Mr. Secretary:

My Government has authorised me to accept on its behalf the
proposal which you suggested at the conference held under your

anspices, with Mr. traphagea as representative of the Foreign
Bondhelders Protective Council, Inc., on Thursday, February 1st,
and which I underbook to recommend to my Government. The terms of

this proposal are the following:
(1) Every effort will be made between now and the 15th
of this month to arrive at a permanent settlement

of the direct dollar debt of the Republic of Colombia.

(2) If, by the 15th of February, such a permanent settlemeat shall not have been reached, my Government will

apply $1,750.000 for the service during the calendar
year 1940, of the outstanding amount of $45.000.000
of the Celembian Government dollar issues of 1927 and

1926, as follows:
To pay the 1940 coupons of the two above issues at
the rate of 3% a year

$1,350,000

To apply to the purchase is open market

for amortisation of bonds of said issues
(3) Approval by my Government of this temporary arrange-

400.000

101

ment assumes approval thereof by the Foreign Boad-

helders Protective Council, Inc. and recommendation

to the helders of the Bonds by the Council, without
any reservations.

I should add that ay Government's desision to accept

this temporary solution is made in appreciation of the helpful
mediation which you and other high officials of the Government
of the United States have offered, and in the hope that by these
means the perment settlement of the debt will be brought secmer

to realisation.
My Government awaits the reply of the Council in order to

work out the details to give effect to this temporary settlement, in case that proves to be necessary. It will be appreciated,
therefore, if you can send me as soon as it is convenient, the
Council's statement on its decision.
Permit me to assure you, Mr. Secretary, of ay very high
esteen.

Respectfully yours,

(signed) Cabriel Turbay
Colombian Ambassador

TE

(Copy)

102

EMBAJADA DE COLOMBIA
WASHINGTON

No.228

February 6th, 1940

To the Honorable

The Secretary of the Treasury,
Washington, D.C.

Dear Mr. Secretary:

My Government has authorized me to accept on its be-

half the proposal which you suggested at the conference
held under your auspices, with Mr. Traphagen as represent-

ative of the Foreign Bondholders Protective Council, Inc., ,
on Thursday, February 1st, and which I undertook to recom-

mend to my Government. The terms of this proposal are the
followings:

1) Every effort will be made between now and the 15th
of this month to arrive at a permanent settlement
of the direct dollar debt of the Republic of Colombia.

2) If, by the 15th of February, such a permanent settlement shall not have been reached, my Government

will apply $1,750.000 for the service during the
calendar year 1940, of the outstanding amount of
$45,000.000 of the Colombian Government dollar is-

103

EMBAJADA DE COLOMBIA
WASHINGTON

-2-

sues of 1927 and 1928, as follows:
To pay the 1940 coupons of the two

above issues at the rate of 3% a
year

To apply to the purchase in open
market for amortization of bonds
of said issues

$1.350.000

400.000

3) Approval by my Government of this temporary arrangement assumes approval thereof by the Foreign Bond-

holders Protective Council, Inc. and recommendation

to the holders of the Bonds by the Council, without
any reservations.
I should add that my Government's decision to accept

this temporary solution is made in appreciation of the helpful mediation which you and other high officials of the Government of the United States have offered, and in the hope
that by these means the permanent settlement of the debt
will be brought sooner to realization.
My Government awaits the reply of the Council in or-

104

EMBAJADA DE COLOMBIA
WASHINGTON

-3-

der to work out the details to give effect to this temporary settlement, in case that proves to be necessary.
It will be appreciated, therefore, if you can send me
as soon as it is convenient, the Council's statement on
its decision.
Permit me to assure you, Mr. Secretary, of my
very high esteem.

Respectfully yours,

Gabriel Turbay

Colombian Ambassador

rg

105

TREASURY DEPARTMENT
INTER-OFFICE COMMUNICATION

DATE February 7. 1940
TO

Secretary Morgenthau

FROM

Mr. Cochran

CONFIDENTIAL

I spoke to Mr. Traphagen by telephone this morning and informed him
of the communication which the Secretary had received from the Ambassador
of Colombia. Mr. Traphagen promised to mail a communication in the same

sense to the Secretary today.

106
THE UNDER SECRETARY OF STATE
WASHINGTON

February 7, 1940

My dear Mr. Secretary:

I am glad to acknowledge your letter of February 7, with which you were good enough to enclose

a copy of a letter which you had received under date
of February 6 from the Ambassador of Colombia.

Let me say again how pleased I am with the result obtained by the governmental committee and how

helpful I believe the conferences held in your office
have in fact been. I am most indebted to you for
your unfailing cooperation in this and in all other
questions.
Believe me

The
Yours very sincerely,

The Honorable

Henry Morgenthau, Jr.,

Secretary of the Treasury.

107

THE SECRETARY OF STATE
WASHINGTON

February 7, 1940

My dear Mr. Secretary:

I wish to thank you for your letter of
February sixth enclosing copies of the messages from Mr. Pinsent, the Counselor of the
French Embassy, and the British Ambassador,

which I have examined with interest.
I am showing them to Mr. Welles and we

shall not forget the confidential nature of
the documents as set forth in your letter.
Sincerely yours,

Correethace
The Honorable

Henry Morgenthau, Jr.,

Secretary of the Treasury.

108
COPY

GRAY

JT

BERLIN

Dated February 7. 1940
Rec'd 9:17 p.m.

Secretary of State,
Washington.

325, February 7. noon.

My No. 23, January 5. 9 a.m. and my No. 74, January 11, 4 p.m.
The moderate increase in the Reichabank's investments during the

last week of January as shown in its statement of January 31 reflects the

continued liquid condition of the money market. In the last week of January
the Reichsbank's bill holdings increased by 333,000,000 marks to 11,143,000,000

marks. 114,000,000 marks of eligible securities were sold during this week
(43,000,000 marks the preceding week) bringing the total holdings down to
374,000,000 marks about 1/4 of the peak holdings on October 31, 1939.

Holdings of collateral loans and other securities increased by very small
amounts. The Reich apparently again made considerable use of its direct

borrowing facilities at the Reichabank as indicated by an increase of
374,000,000 marks to 1,950,000,000 marks during the last week of January

in the Reichabank's miscellaneous assets.
Reichsbank notes in circulation increased by 705,000,000 marks,

11,505,000,000 marks during the last week in January. Moreover its holdings
of coins increased by 33,000,000 marks and of Rentenbank notes by 15,000,000

marks so that these amounts were also added to the currency in circulation.
On the other hand demand deposits held with the Reichabank decreased by
142,000,000 marks in contrast to the upward movement which usually takes

109
-2place the end of the month. The amount of the Reichabank's clearings for
the month which is otherwise included in the Reichabank's month end state-

ments was omitted for the first time in the January 31 statement.
According to the statement of the Reich's floating debt on November 30,
1939, which has just appeared the Reich's net short term borrowings during
October amounted to 1,548,000,000 marks bringing the total of floating debt
of the Reich (not including tax certificates) on November 30th to 12,901,000,000

marks. With the new finance plan tax certificates and loan stock tax certificates including the Reich's total short term obligations on November 30 were
17,542,000,000 marks. There was an increase of 1,791,000,000 marks in

Treasury certificates and treasury bills during November but a decline of
243,000,000, marks in the Reich's direct borrowing from the Reichsbank.

There was also a small increase of 800,000 marks in the loan stock tax
certificates outstanding during November.
The increase in the 80-called floating debt during November was con-

siderably more than in previous months but this was due to the fact that
new finance plan tax certificates which the Reich does not include under
floating debt were no longer issued beginning November 1st and their place

was taken by increased issues of treasury certificates and bills. The

increase in total short terms obligations (including tax certificates)
during November was less than in any of the three preceding months.

It is probable that the savings banks, insurance companies, etc., were

in a position to take up larger amounts of the so-called li-loans during
November than hitherto as that was the month in which money conditions be-

came very liquid. Although the increase in the Rentenbank loan to the

110

-3Reich was only 58,000,000 marks in November compared to 400,000,000 marks

in September and 161,000,000 marks in October (total increases in long
term debt: 566,000,000 marks in September and 572,000,000 marks in October)

it is likely that larger amounts of 11-loans brought the total increase
in long term debt during November above that for October and in any event

the increase in the total debt of the Reich in November was probably not
under 2,000,000,000 marks. INFORM TREASURY.

KIRK

110-A

February 7. 1940.

By dear Mr. Freak:

I as enclosing as of possible interest . cow of
a prospectus on 1. e. Parbea stock which to being

miled to terma-Americane throughout the United
States.

Sincerely yours,

Heavy Morgoather, ir.,
Secretary of the Treasury.
Enclosure

Recerable Joreas s. Fresk.
Chairman. Securities and Exchange Commission.
Washington, D. e.

:

file with Holsam
felter
110-B
I. G. Farben 8 percent Stock

71 per Share.

The shares of I. G Farben are prized as one of the best and
with

a
rich
future
of isthe
capital
investments
The
I. G.
Farben
theEuropean
most important
chemical
company Has
of rich Sanidive
Germany and also one of the largest of the world; it stands in a
close community of interest with Standard 011 of New Jersey and
other world undertakings.
The company has new investments for the production of many

chemical articles. For every purpose are the I. G. Farben shares
a favorable investment.
The price on the Berlin Stock Exchange is about 170 marks.

These shares return about 4 percent interest on your investment.
The dividends are payable yearly. We CASH the interest claims. Calculating

it all out, the Stock Exchange quotation means a proceeds of about
22 Reichsmarks to the dollar.
German American Company

(In business over 40 years in finance)
249 West 34th St., N.Y.C., N.Y.

1. G. Farben 8 Aktien

$ 7฿ pro Aktie

Die I.G. Farten Aktier werden als eine der beaten and aussichtsreichen
europaeischen Kapitalsunlagen betrachtet
Die I.G. Farben 1st die bedeutendate chemische Gesellechaft Deutschlands
und auch eine der groeseten der Welt: steht in enger InteressenGemeinschaft mit Standard Oil in New Jeraey and anderen Weltunternehmungen.

Die Gesellschaft hat u.a. neue Anlagen zur Herstellung von vielen
chemischen Artikeln.

Fuer jeden Zweck 3ind die I.G. Farben Aktien eine guenstige Anlage.

Diese Aktien bringen auf Ihr Investment etwa 4% Zinsen.

Die Dividende ist jaehrlich zahlbar. Wir kaufen die Zinsscheine.

Umgerechnet bedeutet der Kurs einen Erloes von ca. 221 Reichamark
pro Dollar.

GERMAN AMERICAN COMPANY
(Eigentuemen ueber 40 Jahre i'm Finanzwesen)
249 West 34th Street - New York City, N. Y.

<

Der Kurs an der Berliher Boerse ist etwa 170 Mark.

I. G. Farben 8 Stock

$7.1 per Share

The shares of I. 0. Farben are prized as one of the
best European capital investments and as heving A
rich future.
The I. G. Farben is the LOST important chemical
company of Germany and also one of the largest

of the world; it stands in a close community of

interest with Standard 011 of New Jersey and other

world undertakings.

The company has new investments for the production
of many chemical articles.

For every purpose are the I. G. Farber shares A
favorable investment.
The price on the Serlin Stock Exchange is about
170 marks.

These shares return about 4 interest on your
investment. The dividends are payable yearly.
We cash the interest claims.

Calculating it all out. the Stock Exchange

quotation means a proceeds of about 22 Reichsmarke

to the dollar.

German American Company

(In business over 40 years in finance)

24g est shich St N.Y.O. N.Y.

111

PARAPHRASE OF TELEGRAM RECEIVED

FROM: American Embassy, Paris, France

DATE: February 8, 1940, 6 p.m.

NO.: 185
FOR THE TREASURY FROM MATTHEWS.

This morning I saw Penacchio of the Bank of Italy
for a few minutes. Penacchio intimated that he had a

rather definite impression that the Bank of France is
showing increasing concern at the rate of expenditure of

its gold and foreign exchange assets. It is difficult,
he said, to refuse requests even for semi-military requirements. He said he thought various Ministries were padding
their estimates with the knowledge that the Finance
Ministry and the Bank would cut them down - adding that
those Ministries could see only their little corner of the
picture. He was skeptical as to whether the forthcoming
French inventory of foreign holdings would be complete,
remarking that from their experience, Italy knew how
difficult it was to get at the assets and have them included
in such an inventory. The French, he thinks, are coming
nearer to the time when they will have to requisition foreign
holdings despite the objections thereto from the internal
political point of view; Penacchio would not venture a
guess as to when this would be. From all outward signs,
he believes that the cost of the war to France is considerably
less

112

-2less than the 700 to 800 million francs per day estimated

at the beginning. I believe he 18 right when he says that
there are no indications that the figure is running as
high as 700 to 800 francs a day. Reference: my telegram
No. 14 of January 4; Penacchio remarked again on the
success of the French in keeping prices down to date. He
added that retail prices in France seem to him to be con-

siderably lower than those in Italy, even with the recent
increases.

A few days ago Penacchio was in Rome. He indicated,

without being specific, that due to changes brought about
by the war, conditions in the Italian Government were
undergoing a process of readjustment and reorganization.
There continues to be a fair volume of French purchases of

Italian products. He said that rolling stock purchases
has been limited by the needs of Italy and "those of
other countries" (it is presumed of Germany) and the fact
that only one Italian concern is equipped for doing such
work. The French have ordered a number of oil tank vessels

as well as substantial quantities of minor items - plus
the large quantities of motors and uniforms. I gathered
that there has been some confusion and crossing of wires

due to the fact that D'Autry, the Minister of Armament,
has his own mission in Italy through which all purchases
of

113

-3of war materials under his jurisdiction are made, while
the Italians at the same time, have their own mission here
to facilitate sales to other Ministries in the French
Government. Beginning the nineteenth of February, meetings

are to be held in Paris to bring existing Franco-Italian
clearing and payments agreements into line with the current

situation in view of the changes that are taking place.
He remarked, incidentally, that he has seen McKittrick
the new President of the B.I.S. in Rome and that he and all
the other Italian officials had been most favorably impressed
with him.

Little business was done in the securities market and
price changes were insignificant. The tendency continues
hesitant and cautious.
The official exchange rate for the belga today was
734-740 (compared 737-743).

The Bank of France statement dated February 2 reveals

that the Treasury drew another 700,000,000 francs from its
advance account at the bank to a total of 15,900, 000,000.
END OF MESSAGE.

MURPHY.

890

EA:LWW

114

February 8, 1940
12:45 a. m.
Present:

Mr. Purvis
Mr. Bell
Mrs. Klotz

HM,Jr: You know Mr. Bell. He will carry on
while I am gone, so he will be here in charge in my
absence.

Mr. Purvis: I know you must be very busy. I
said yesterday there was a cable understood on the way
for me. It was not on the subject I expected, but
nevertheless it was something I thought I should talk

with you first. I thought I would just give it to

you.

HM,Jr: May I read it.
"Dated 6/2/40. Following from Monnet for

Purvis telegram No. 11.
We have discussed with M. Rist and Mr. Ashton-

Gwatkin their projected visit to the United States in
the light of your recent messages. We fully appreciate
that difficulties may arise from contemplated visit and
we will wait to hear from you when Mr. Morgenthau considers this visit would be opportune. Meanwhile we
hope that this will not prevent you from pursuing con-

versations with Mr. Morgenthau personally as opportunity
offers. If

Mr. Purvis: They evidently thought there might
be a way to get around the difficulty.
HM,Jr: (Resumed reading) "It has occurred to us
visit of M. Rist and Mr. Ashton-Gwatkin were to be for
the purpose of assisting Embassies by bringing up-to-date
information as to our economic warfare policy and as to
possibilities of meeting protests and complaints now com-

that it might help to smooth out difficulties if the

115

-2-

ing forward from the State Department about the operation of Contraband Control. As a matter of fact both
Governments have lately been considering the advisa-

bility of sending representatives to Washington for this
purpose. M. Rist and Mr. Ashton-Gwatkin would then also
be available to assist in the discussion of raw materials
in question."

Mr. Purvis: It might be a way of getting around

the opposition

HM,Jr: This is going to be very easy. I am seeing the President at ten minutes of two and I will lay
this on his desk and ask him how he feels.

Mr. Purvis: Thank you very much indeed, Sir.
HM,Jr: When are you leaving Washington?

Mr. Purvis: Under those circumstances -- I was
going on the two o'clock plane

HM,Jr: If you will wait.
Mr. Purvis: I will wait.
HM,Jr: I shall phone you.
Mr. Purvis: I shall be at the Anglo-French Purchasing Board, but I just felt it was important enough
and it is a way that might get around that little difficulty, because then it would make a clear picture for what
you might feel inclined to do.
HM,Jr: Mr. Bell will be acting while I am gone and
so that he's here.
Mr. Purvis: Thank you very much. If I may come
in and see you (Mr. Bell) and bother you. I promise not
to bother you more than I can help.
Mr. Bell: I will be glad to see you at any time.

HM,Jr: The thing is difficult and, as I said yesterday, sometimes it is difficult not to let one's personal

feelings run away from him.
(The balance of the meeting was off the record and no

notes were made, but Mr. Purvis reiterated his concern over
the Hercules Powder matter) 000-000
000-000

116

Copy

Dated 6/2/40

Following from Monnet for Purvis telegram No. 11.
We have discussed with M. Rist and Mr. Ashton-

Gwatkin their projected visit to the United States in the
light of your recent messages. We fully appreciate that
difficulties may arise from contemplated visit and we will
wait to hear from you when Mr. Morgenthau considers this

visit would be opportune. Meanwhile we hope that this
will not prevent you from pursuing conversations with
Mr. Morgenthau personally as opportunity offers. It has
occurred to us that it might help to smooth out difficulties
if the visit of M. Rist and Mr. Ashton-Gwatkin were to be for
the purpose of assisting Embassies by bringing up-to-date
information as to our economic warfare policy and as to
possibilities of meeting protests and complaints now coming
forward from the State Department about the operation of
Contraband Control. As a matter of fact both Governments

have lately been considering the advisability of sending
representatives to Washington for this purpose. M. Rist
and Mr. Ashton-Gwatkin would then also be available to

assist in the discussion of raw materials in question.

THE WHITE HOUSE
WASHINGTON

February 8, 1940.
MEMORANDUM FOR

THE SECRETARY OF THE TREASURY

Please read and return.
Can nothing be done to cut down
on this?

F. D. R.

NT ASTOR
T BOTSTREET

New York, February 5th,

40.

President:

You might be interested to know that since December 30th
's weekly drawings on their main Chase Bank account have been as follows:
Total Payments

For Metals

From Dec. 30th to Jan. 5th

$2,094,993.47

$1,411,863.93

Jan. 6th to Jan. 12th

2,714,070.54

1,451,170.93

Jan. 13th to Jan. 19th

2,213,032.19

1,095,538.05

Jan. 20th to Jan. 26th

2,056,334.20

843,212.28

Jan. 27th to Feb. 2nd

2,407,832.97

1,793,839.98

$11,486,263.37

$6,595,625.17

The payments for metals are included in the totals.
The enclosed sheets show the individual payments during
the past week.

Those to American Smelting & Refining Company come to

1,455,647.

Respectfully,

VA:SW

Encs.

The President,
Washington, D.C.

Vincent

($2,275,653.73)

(1/27/40)

$1,334.60 Stolp Co., Inc.
859.17 Ingersoll Milling Machine Co.
333.50 Special Machine Tool Engineering Works, Inc.
110.00 Sperry Gyroscope Co., Inc.
589.00 Sperry Gyroscope Co., Inc.
2,940.15 Feedrail Corporation
607,606.63 American Smelting & Refining Co.
3,326.38 The Brown Instrument Company
City Pattern Works
5,058.44

525,842.74 American Smelting & Refining Co.
10,636.86 Draft - Kingsbury Machine Tool Corp.
21,690.49 Draft - Cone Automatic Machine Co.
689.02 National Vulcanized Fibre Co.
1,850.00 United Engineering & Foundry Co.
5.36 Theo H. Davies & Co., Ltd.
184.15 Harry W. Dietert Co.
/ 7,868.14 Duquesne-Smelting Corporation

$5,208.06

16,059.00 W. F. & John Barnes Co.

12,586.83 National City Bank

329.40 American Meter Company, Inc.
59.66 Ford Motor Co.

90.94 Acme Tile & Marble Co., Inc.

712.37 General Motors Overseas Operations
382.52 General Motors Overseas Operations
31,221.07 Norton Co.
26,822.11 A. G. Parser, MZN

3,781.02 Irving Trust Co.

539.39 Guaranty Trust Co.

$1,000,000.

743.85 Guaranty Trust Co.
789.06 Howell Electric Motors Co.
827.87 Howell Electric Motors Co.
538.79 Norton Co.

1,078.00 Morse Bros. Machinery Co. - Draft
181.50 Draft - Leeds Northrup Co.
1,036.84 The Ideal Electric & Mfg. Co.

67,834.30 E. F. Hutton & Company

8,647.13 Draft - Gleason Works
181,101.89 Draft - Revere, Copper & Brass, Inc.
2,543.80 Atlas Electric Devices Co.
322,198.00 American Smelting & Refining Co.
5,121.73 Howell Electric Motors Co.
6,520.00 Toledo Scale Company
62,088.89 New York Trust Co.
94,393.31 New York Trust Co.
1,654.08 Central Hanover National Bank

12,624.00
18,556.61
17,262.55
141,382.58
61,597.95

First National Bank
Irving Trust Co.

New York Trust Co.
E. J. Schwaback & Co.

To meet eventual drawings against L/C #24273 in f/o Kingsburg Machine Tool Co., Keene,N.
211.50

L/C#25282 in to Sundstrand Machine Tool Co.,

Rockford, Ill.

80.71

L/C #23197 - Greenlee Bros. & Co. Rockford, Ill. $32,304.86
L/C #24170 - Greenlee Bros. & Co.,Rockford,Ill. $2,169.41
L/C #25643 - Snyder Tool & Engineering Co. Detroit,Mich.$4,962.25
L/C #25641 - Pratt & Whitney Div., Hartford, Conn. $2,906.46
L/C #25642 - Snyder Tool & Engineering Co.Detroit,Mich.$678.75
L/C #25640 - Federal Products Corp. ,Providence,R.I. $17,054.97
L/C #25639 - Barber Coleman Co., Rockford, Ill. $1,229.04
374.52 Norton Pike Co.
240.10 Pracision Scient.ficco.
618.86 Spencer Lens Company

688.14 Joseph Weidenhoff Inc.
980.50 Heller Machine Company

79.12 General Motors Overseas Operations

(1/27/40) - Cont.
8.25 General Motors Overseas Operations
7,840.00 Duquesne Smelting Corporation
21,531.84 G & N Trading Company
31,318.48 American Wool Stock Corp.
103.95 Timken Roller Bearing Co.

182.96 Chrysler Corp.-Export

527.88

500,000.00

811.33 Jones & Lamson Machine Co.

2,182.87 Tinken Roller Bearing Co.
9,005.15 E.F. Hutton & Co.
28,743.51 Transfer to regular account
2,891.70 Jones & Lamson Machine Co.
159.87 John Bean Mfg. Co.

7,840.15 To meet eventual drawings against -

L/C #24734 -LaPointe Machine Tool Co. Hudson, Mass. 2,747.68
2,909.60
L/C #25671 -Heald Machine Co., Norcester, Mass.

L/C $25672 -Timken Roller Bearing Co. Canton, Ohio 2,182.87

Balance 1/27/40 - $2,275,653.73
1,505,735.94
Credits 781,389.67

Debits

Balance 2/2/40

$1,373,556.70

Confidential
(duplicate)

TREASURY DEPARTMENT

Diary.
121

INTER OFFICE COMMUNICATION

DATE February 8, 1940
TO

FROM

Secretary Morgenthau

Captain Puleston

Subject: Export of Heavy Machinery from the United States
to Russia and Japan.

1. I consulted Admiral Stark, Chief of Naval Operations,
General Gasser, Assistant Chief of Staff, Colonel Burns, of the
Joint Munitions Board, and Major Soderholm.

2. The Navy might be able to use the machinery for boring the forgings of eighteen-inch guns. Admiral Stark thought
off-hand that $15 million was an exorbitant price. However,
he is going into the subject more thoroughly and will inform
you. The War Department does not use eighteen-inch guns, but

it is interested in the machinery for making anti-aircraft guns.
3. There 18 no law prohibiting the export of machinery.
The only effective way to prevent shipments of machinery now
will be a moral embargo.
4. The Navy and the Army are aware of the heavy exporta-

tions of metal-working machinery to Japan and Russia. Both
departments will furnish you with any information they have and

will keep the information current in the future. Nevertheless,
I think your plan of having General Watson speak to the President would regularize the procedure.

122

5. The War Department is in close touch with all heavy
industries in the United States. (Parenthetically, the Commerce Department is also, and I am already in touch with Mr.
Lind, who heads that Division in the Department of Commerce.)
The Navy Department is only interested in companies who deal
with the Navy. War and Navy Departments are working harmoni-

ously with Captain Collins, in the Procurement Division.
6. Admiral Stark thought that the machinery for manufacturing eighteen-inch guns would be of little immediate use

to Russia, on account of the time necessary to place it in operation. But both War and Navy Departments were aware of the
enormous assistance that Russia and Japan were getting from
their imported American machinery. Major Soderholm, who has

specialized in "heavy machinery" stated that Japan could not
have waged war in China except with machinery for munitions

bought in the United States. At the present time Japan is more
dependent than ever on American machinery, because machinery

from Germany 18 not available,

7. I was impressed by the cordial reception I received
and the willingness of both War and Navy Departments to co-

operate with you in this undertaking.

W. D. Puleston,

Captain, U.S.N., Retired.

123
February 8, 1940

CONFIDENTIAL

Dear Mr. President:

Banking institutions in the United States, its insular and terri-

torial possessions, and in foreign countries, qualified as depositaries
and financial agents, are required to perform much essential banking
service in connection with the collection of the revenues of the

Government and its various agencies and disbursements through desig-

nated disbursing officers. The established method of offsetting costs
incurred by depositaries and financial agents in the performance of

this essential Government business is through the medium of balances
of public moneys maintained therewith. These balances, under existing
law and Treasury regulations, are required to be collaterally secured by

direct or indirect obligations of the United States or obligations of
the territorial and insular possessions of the United States. Hence,
the only revenue the banks may derive from these Treasury balances,

generally speaking, is through the yield from the securities purchased
in the market for this purpose.
The increasing requirements of the Government for banking service,

combined with the current yields on eligible collateral, will, if the

situation is not adjusted, necessitate an undesirable increase in the
amount of the balances necessary for the Treasury to maintain with

banks. In the circumstances, in order that efficient service may be
procured and an equitable relation maintained between the Treasury and

its designated depositaries and financial agents, it is considered
very desirable to provide a special type of obligation for this purpose
which will have a fixed rate of yeard, will not be subject to market
fluctuation, and may be redeemed upon due notice at face value plus
accrued interest.

I therefore propose, subject to your approval, and under the
authority of the Second Liberty Bond Act, approved September 24, 1917,
as amended, to issue a special series of bonds of the United States
which may be subscribed for by qualified depositaries and financial
agents meeting all requirements of the Treasury in an amount not
exceeding in any case the amount for which the depositary or financial
agent is qualified, subject to increase or decrease as the qualification is adjusted upward or downward in direct proportion to the amount
and character of the essential service rendered by the bank.

The bonds will be dated February 9, 1940, will bear interest at
the rate of 2 percent per annum, and will mature February 1, 1950.
They will be issued only to secure the qualification of depositaries

124

and financial agents and will not be eligible for any other purpose.
The bonds will be redeemable on any interest payment date at the

option of the United States or the banks, on short notice. While

there will be periodic issues and redemptions as circumstances
necessitate, the amount outstanding at any one time chargeable against
the limitation imposed by the Second Liberty Bond Act should not ex-

ceed $75,000,000. It is currently estimated that ownership will be
restricted to approximately 500 qualified banking institutions.

The authorizing act provides that bonds may be issued only with

the approval of the President. Accordingly, in view of the direct
benefit to the Treasury which will result from this arrangement, I
trust that the proposed issue will meet with your approval.
Faithfully yours,
(Signed) H. Morgenthau, Jr.

Secretary of the Treasury.

The President,
The White House.

APPROVED:

125
EMBASSY OF THE
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA

Chungicing, February 8, 1940
No. 449
STRICTLY CONFIDENTIAL
CONFIDENTIAL

SUBJECT: Departure of Mr. Maurice E. Sheahan,
Motor Transport Expert,

for the United States:

Remarks Made in Course of Call
at Embassy.

The Honorable

The Secretary of State,
Washington.

Sir:

I have the honor to refer to the Embassy's despatch
no. 447 of February 5, 1940, on the subject: "Motor
Highway Transportation in China: Recommendations of
American Transportation Experts", and to previous communications regarding the work of the American motor

transport experts who have been advising the Ministry of
Communications during the last five months, and to submit,

for the information and files of the Department, the

substance of remarks made by Mr. Maurice E. Sheahan in

the course of a call at the Embassy immediately prior
to his departure from Chungking for the United States

on February 2.
SUMMARY

Mr. Sheahan discussed at some length

his recent trip to French Indochina; his inspection of the Indochina-Yunnan Railway; and his

conferences with officials of the railway,
Yunnan provincial authorities, and the Minister

of Communications. He expressed satisfaction

over the spirit of cooperation shown by all
concerned, and appeared optimistic in regard

to prospects of coordinating motor, rail and
water transportation facilities in the Southwest.

Mr. Sheahan indicated that he had not had
an easy time during his five months as an
adviser to the Ministry of Communications.
He stated that for approximately one month
(November) he was virtually ignored by the

Minister. He seemed to feel, however, that

he had in the end succeeded in making responsible
Chinese authorities realize what steps mist be

taken to bring about efficient coordination of

transport facilities.

In conclusion, Mr. Sheahan remarked that
he had approached his work with the idea that
an

--

126

an efficient transportation system is essential to Chinese resistance to Japanese inva
sion; that if Japan ie allowed to dominate
China the ultimate cost to the United States
is unpredictable; and that a comparatively
small effort made at this time to assist
China may save the United States untold expend-

itures in the future.

The Embassy gained the impression that
Mr. Sheahan's view of the future may have been

unduly optimistic, but believes he has rendered valuable service to the Chinese Govern
ment.

Mr. Sheehan called at the Embassy in the company of
Mr. Andrew B. Bassi, one of his two assistants, on
January 31, and discussed the results of his work with
the Counselor and the Third Secretary for approximately
an hour, in the course of which he reviewed the points
he had covered in a conversation with the Third Secretary
on January 27. Sincemost of this information was transmitted to the Department by the Consul at Hanoi and by
the Vice Consul at Yunnanfu during Mr. Sheahan's visits
to those citiest the Embassy will not undertake to repeat

it in detail in this despatch.

As the Department will recall, Mr. Sheahan, accompanied by Mr. T. L. Soong, head of the Southwest Transportation Company, flew from Chungking to Hanoi early

in January. As a result of his investigation of the

congestion of cargo at Haiphong, he recommended that
Haiphong be embargoed so far as cargo destined for China
was concerned, and further recommended that A large part
of the cargo at Haiphong be transshipped to Rangoon and
forwarded to China over the Burma road.

In the company of the director and other officials

of the Indochina-Yunnan Railway, Mr. Sheahan then inspected damage to the road resulting from Japanese air

raids. He estimated the railway could be repaired by
February 15 at a cost of not more than $10,000.00 United
States currency, and came to the conclusion that the railroad could probably be effectively defended against air
attack. During his call at the Embassy Mr. Sheahan confirmed the view expressed to the Consul at Hanoi early
in January to the effect that handling of Chinese Govern=
ment cargo on the railway would improve - particularly
with respect to diversion of freight space from uses to
which it had originally been assigned. He said he believed
that with the arrival of ten new locomotives, now understood to be en route to Indochina from Batavia, and additional rolling stock now being transferred from the
Djibouti Railway, the Indochina-Yunnan Railway could increase its monthly capacity from approximately 15,000

tons to 24,000 tons (assuming that traffic was not

interrupted

*Hanoi's despatch no. 41, January 12, 1940. et seq.
Yunnanfu's despatch no. 22, January 26, et seq.

-3-

127

interrupted by further air attacks). Mr. Sheahan said
guns were already being placed on hills surrounding the
more vulnerable points along the railway - particularly
near bridges which would be difficult to replace.
Mr. Bassi said he understood four anti-aircraft guns
had recently been sent from Chungking to be used along
the railway.

While the results of the air raid of February 1, in

which a direct hit was scored on a passenger train, would
hardly seem to justify Mr. Sheahan's optimism regarding

the possibility of defending the railway, they do not
constitute conclusive evidence that if and when further

defense measures are adopted the railway can not be

effectively protected.

Following his inspection of conditions at Haiphong

and of the railway Mr. Sheahan, as the Department is
aware, proceeded to Yunnanfu, where he met Mr. Chang Kiangau, Minister of Communications, who had arrived in the
city on January 16. Mr. Sheahan said that Mr. Chang

went out of his way to be cordial: virtually apologized
for his neglect of Mr. Sheahan and his assistants during

preceding months; explained that this neglect had been
the inevitable result of orders issued by General Chiang
Kai-shek.to complete certain projects in record time.
Mr. Sheahan appeared to have been most favorably impressed by remarks made by Governor Lung Yun of Yunnan,

officials of the National Government, and officials of

the railway, in the course of a banquet held in Yunnanfu
on January 24, at which all the speakers, according to
Mr. Sheahan, pledged their cooperation in coordinating
transport services in Yunnan.

In the course of a brief review of his work during

the past five months Mr. Sheahan indicated that the
attitude of the Minister of Communications had not been
entirely cooperative, and that during the month of
November the Minister virtually ignored him. At the end
of this month, as the Department will recall,* Mr. Sheahan

issued a statement regarding the effect of the fall of

Nanning on transportation in the Southwest in which he
painted a remarkably favorable picture of transport con-

ditions with the idea of stimulating the Chinese to
greater activity and "giving them something to shoot at".

Mr. Sheahan said that in issuing this statement he had
also wished to point out that the loss of the Nanning
road really was less di sastrous than many people had
believed.

Mr. Sheahan went on to say that formation of the
China Transport Corporation**represented the culmination

of his efforts, and that while he regretted that for

business reasons he now found it necessary to return to

the United States, he felt that he and his assistants
had provided the Chinese with a sound basis for an efficient transport system. Mr. Bassi remarked that it was
now up to the Chinese to show what they could do with

the plan. (Mr. Bassi and Mr. Van Patter, Mr. Sheahan's
other

*Fabasay's confidential despatch no. 408,
December 19. 1939.

**Embassy's confidential despatch no. 407.
December 18, 1939.

128

other assistant, plan to remain in China for some months
to come.)

Shortly before leaving the Embassy Mr. Sheahan

remarked that he had kept constantly in mind the belief
that a comparatively modest amount of assistance to
China at this time may - if it enables her to prevent
Japanese domination of East Asia - avert a situation
which might, in years to come, compel the United States
to expend incalculable sums to maintain her position in
the Pacific.
COMMENT: The Embassy is not convinced that the

promises of various officials made to Mr. Sheahan during
the last few days of his stay in China should be taken as

literally as he appeared to take them, especially since

the officials knew that in a few he would be in

Washington talking with people interested in the possibility of granting new credits to China. The Embassy
does feel, however, that in addition to giving the
Chinese the benefit of his expert technical knowledge,
Mr. Sheahan has rendered a notable service in talking
to the Chinese as frankly as his remarks to the Embassy
would indicate. He has been in a position to point out

weaknesses which few, if any, Chinese would dare mention

openly - either to colleagues of equal rank or to their
superiors.

Respectfully
For the Ambassador:
WILLYS R. PECK

Counselor of Embassy

Original to Department by airmail
Four copies to Department by pouch
Copy to Peiping by pouch
Copy to Shanghai by pouch

Copy to Yunnanfu by air mail
Copy to Hanoi by air mail
870/815.4
TEW:HHK

Note: Owing to press of routine, completion of
this despatch has been unduly delayed.

129
COPY

American Consulate

No. 268

Rangoon, Burma,

February 8, 1940.
STRICTLY CONFIDENTIAL

Subject: War materials for China; statistics of imports at Rangoon
passed for transit through Burma during the period
January 1 to January 15, 1940.

THE HONORABLE

THE SECRETARY OF STATE,
WASHINGTON.

Sir:

I have the honor to refer to information recently transmitted to
the Department, and to forward herewith statistics of war materials

for China imported at Rangoon and shipped in transit through Burma
during the period January 1 to January 15, 1940. The value placed on
these materials was Rupees 2,705,801, or $811,740 at the present
exchange value of the rupee, which is approximately $0.30.
Values in rupees of materials re-exported to China in 1939 were con-

verted at a rate of 35 cents, as that was the approximate value of the
rupee in United States currency when transit shipments started and during several months thereafter.

On January 15, 1940, the total value of all war materials re-

exported to China from Rangoon stood at Rupees 108,835,717. or approximately $37,957,208.

In regard to the meaning of the phrase "passed for transit" )ref-

erence informal comment on despatch no. 229, of October 18, 1939), I

have to report that materials passed for transit through Burma are in
almost every instance re-exported to China, shipment following the

Customs inspection and clearance. The procedure followed in handling

transit cargo at this port is described as follows:

When cargoes of war materials or other supplies for China reach
this port the cases, boxed, crates, drums and other packages, and any

articles not in containers, are carefully checked as they are unloaded,

bo th by Customs clerks and employes of the Southwest Transportation
Company, the Chinese semi-military transport concern in charge of shipments to and within China. They are then forwarded to warehouses,
where they are again checked on entry, and where they are under con-

stant Customs supervision. The only exception to this latter procedure is in the case of explosives, which are stored in barges in the
Rangoon River, several miles from the docks. Military police, provided by the Government of Burma, are on guard at the warehouses and

on the barges. As soon as it is possible to do so, the local office

of the Southwest Transportation Company notifies the Chinese Govern-

ment agency charged with the distribution of supplies of the cargo received,

130

-2ceived, and the Rangoon office is then instructed in regard to any preferences to be observed in shipments, and is furnished with the necessary funds for local payments. When the Customs authorities are informed of the shipments to be made, the materials are inspected and

passed for transit through Burma to China, and practically all supplies
passed are shipped.

Respectfully yours,
Austin C. Brady

American Consul

In quintuplicate to the Department.
800
ACB

131

- -3 WAR MATERIALS FOR CHINA

Statistics of imports at Rangoon inspected and passed for transit by the
Burma Customs authorities during the period January 1-January 15, 1940.
Type of

Material

Airplane parts

Description

Number

and Quantity

pkgs.
2

No description

Country of
Origin

United States

N

2

If

4

"
N

N

1

30,936

Fuses

5.975 37 mm.; 136,549 rounds
1,012 76 mm.: 7,078 rounds
117
48

Cartridges

2,362
7.755
34

385

37 mm. shells: 46,700
76 mm. shells: 2,810

Russia

1,582
4,453
4,936
1,296

154,680

1,911,686
:.

106,170
46,700
14,050

#

7.62 mm.; 1,417,200,

in clips

7.62 mm.: 6,546,260

7.92 mm.; 76,500 in
clips
7.92

:
If

Shells

Rupees

Ammunition boxes:

"

1,143

If

Machine-gun parts

Value

Czechoslovakia

Min.: 866,250
Total

85,032
327,313
4,590
43,313

2,705,801

132
WAR MATERIALS FOR CHINA

Imports at Rangoon inspected and passed for transit during the period
January 1 to January 15, 1940.

RECAPITULATION

VALUES BY COUNTRIES OF ORIGIN.

Value

Country of
Origin

Equivalent
U.S. Dollars

Rupees

1. Russia
2. Crechoslovakia

2,645,631

3. United States
Total

47.903
12,267

793,689
14,371
3,680

2,705,801

811,740

VALUES BY TYPES OF MATERIAL

Unit

Type of

Quantity

Material

Value
Rupees

4. Fuses

No.
II

1. Shells
2. Cartridges
3. Machine-gun parts

.

5. Airplane parts
To tal

-

Equivalent

U.S. Dollars

143,627

2,017,856

8,906,210

460,248
154,680
60,750
12,267

605.357
138,074
46,404
18,225
3,680

2,705,801

811,740

30,936
49,510

---

133

February 8, 1940.

GROUP MEETING

Present:

Mr. Bell
Mr. Harris

9:30 a.m.

Mr. Cochran

Mr. Thompson

Mr. Cotton

Mr. Haas

Mr. Foley

Mr. Gaston
Mr. Graves
Mr. White
Mr. Schwarz

Mrs Klotz

H.M.Jr:

I think this is a surprisingly good story in

the Journal of Commerce, considering how badly

Customs has treated them. I am glad I can
get a good story out of them.

Harris:

Today's Journal? I will look at it.

Schwarz:

It is a New York story.

H.M.Jr:

Yes, on the machine tool thing. It is pretty

Schwarz:

gent things that has been written.
It is a good approach.
For those who are interested in - do you want
to look at this?

H.M.Jr:

good. I think it is one of the most intelli-

Bell:

I have got it home, I think. I will look at
it.

H.M.Jr:

For those who are interested in South America,

I got worried when I saw the activity in the

bonds of the Republic of Colombia and so I
called up Mr. Welles this morning at his house
at 8:15. I thought that the statement should
be made today that the Republic of Colombia

and the Bondholders' Protective Committee had
reached an agreement, details of which would
be announced on February 15, and he agreed
with me, because - I don't know how many people

are on the Bondholders' Protective Committee,

134

-2but they know it. Everybody in the Republic
of Colombia's Embassy knows it and I think
it puts those of us who withhold information
in an embarrassing position, so Welles said
he would call up the Ambassador of Colombia
and if he gets a release he will let me know
and I will call up Traphagen.
Cotton:

Are you going to ask - it is a little bit

H.M.Jr:

Well, if we get a release from Colombia.

Cotton:

Yes, that is all right.

Bell:

And Traphagen?

H.M.Jr:

And Traphagen.

Bell:

We were hoping that if they got close to the
15th and we thought there might be a chance
of coming to an agreement we could ask for
a postponement of that date, maybe for a week
or something like that.
My own stuff, the minute - anything that we
do in Government financing, the second we
know, we can't get to the ticker quickly
enough to let everybody know. There is buying
activity and there is speculation going on and
the people on the "in" are buying up these
bonds, knowing that there is a bond selling
that is going to pay 3 percent, that is 10
percent on your money. That is going nice.
I just don't feel comfortable. It is up to
Welles to get a clearance from them. I am
sure Traphagen will go along wi th it.
There was a mention in the press today also
that Colombia is being considered for a loan
by the Export-Import Bank.
A lot of people know about it. Espil was at
the house two nights ago and he said, "How
are you getting along with the Colombian debt?"
and I said, "Very well. It is very, very
important.

H.M.Jr:

Cochran:

H.M.Jr:

contrary to the understanding reached here.

135

-3He said, "We refunded the provinces of the
Argentine on a 4 percent basis, the Federal
Government did," and he said, "of course,
if you should do anything on a 3 percent
basis it would be very embarrassing for the
Federal Government of the Argentine," so I
said, "That is easy. I will just tell the
Colombians that Argentine doesn't want us

to do it for less than 4 percent."
"oh no, no, no, no, don't tell them that."
But you see, it is all around, so I think
the quicker it is out, the better.

Bell:

I raise the question as to whether the whole
terms shouldn't be given out. There would

still be speculation if you say they have
come to an agreement.

Cotton:

I wonder if you would have five minutes to
talk. Mr. Traphagen called me yesterday.
Would you like to talk to Mr. Bell about it?
He can tell you what he said. He had some
ideas on a permanent settlement, also.

Bell:

Maybe I can see you for five minutes some-

H.M.Jr:

Bell has got from 11:00 to 12:00 and if he
gets through, will you (Bell) remind me
and then we will have a conference for a
minute. We will concede you (Cotton) five

time.

minutes.

Thompson:

I put in my name with McKay for a couple of

minutes.

H.M.Jr:

Harold?

Graves:

Nothing.

H.M.Jr:

Harry?

White:

I have got quite a few telegrams about Russia.

I am wondering if you wouldn't care to indicate
specifically how you want the Russian stuff

136

-4handled. Basil Harris is handling one angle
of it and we are taking care of one and
Herbert Gaston. I think it better be centralized.
H.M.Jr:

Do you mean on this shipment?

White:

Yes, on keeping track of all -The interesting thing is - I almost fell over
last night to think that the State Department
is abreast with us. The State Department also

H.M.Jr:

called up Climax Molybdenum and wanted to know
why there was $40,000 worth of molybdenum going
on a boat.

Gaston:

From Los Angeles?

H.M.Jr:

Yes. Well, I think that this is - I think it

White:

We are following Italy, Russia, Germany and
by-ports shipments.

H.M.Jr:

I think if you and Basil Harris and Gaston will
work on that. Now --

Harris:

I will just feed into Herbert any bits of in-

better head up with Herbert Gaston. I think
that would be - I am glad you raised that,
because - Dan, I think the stuff that I have
been doing, certainly anything to do with the
shipments out of this country, whether they go
to Russia or - they raised the question of
extra exports of molybdenum to Italy. I sent
that to him, too.

formation I get. Mine is mostly piecemeal,

anyhow.

H.M.Jr:

And then the stuff - anything that has to do
with foreign purchases of war materials, we
had the President set this committee up with
Captain Collins, see, and I think I will tell
Collins that if there is anything from that,
Bell, while I am gone, he should talk to you
and if you think it is something I ought to
know about, why - the way I would like people
to - Mrs. Klotz will be here most of the time.

137

-5If she isn't here, Miss Chauncey will be here
the days she is out. Do you (Mrs. Klotz)
want it to go through your office or through
Thompson's?

Klotz:

Whatever you want.

H.M.Jr:

Days Mrs. Klotz is here, she will handle it,
and the days she is not here, Mr. Thompson
will handle it. How is that?

Klotz:

That is all right.
If it is something like - that you can wait

H.M.Jr:

Klotz:
H.M.Jr:

a half a day for an answer for, I would rather
have it come through a code telegram and McKay
has the code, you see. If it is something
you need an answer within an hour on, maybe
you had better phone. The airmail isn't very
satisfactory unless you do this - you can do
this: If you put it on a ship, for instance,
the ship that leaves here at 5:00 o'clock tonight and gets there at 8:00 tomorrow morning,
and we know there is something on that ship,
you can work it out with the Post Office - I
can send a man up to meet that ship and get it,
you see, and I will have it two hours later.
Mr. Secretary, is that Tucson?
Yes. If you send me a wire that on American
Airways, such and such a ship, there is a
special pouch or special letter or something,
work it out with one of these ex-Post Office
inspectors like Graves, we will send a man
up to meet that ship, you see.

Bell:

O. K.

H.M.Jr:

But otherwise, a code telegram can reach me -

telegraph service is excellent. They phone

it right down. Telephone only if it is an

emergency. If Giannini comes in and asks,
"May we subscribe to 35 million dollars worth

of bonds?" and wants to write off all his real
estate, telephone me.

138

-6Bell:
H.M.Jr:

Ed and I will come down on the plane.
You can bring the whole staff.

Klotz:

That is certainly worth it.

H.M.Jr:

And charge it up to Giannini.
You are so big hearted.

Klotz:
H.M.Jr:

Bell:

I don't think I have anything else.
I don't drink, Mr. Secretary, but I would

drink
that. I think I would get relief
on bothon
occasions.
White:

Do you smoke, Dan?

Bell:

No, I don't smoke either, but I would take
a cigarette, too.

H.M.Jr:

The days Mrs. Klotz is here, she will handle

communications and those days she isn't,
Mr. Thompson will.

Dan? Are you saving everything for 11:00?
Was I down to Harry?
White:

H.M.Jr:

Cochran:

I started, yes. Secondly, you commented on
the conference on gold yesterday. I am wondering whether you might not want to mention -Oh, for the benefit of those who have weak
stomachs on gold, if a group should come
together to discuss gold, it isn't gold, it
is a discussion to be on the internal economic
conditions of the United States, you see.
That takes care of all weak stomachs.

Is that going to be international or just

domestic?
White:

No, just domestic.

H.M.Jr:

Just domestic. I think the people who have

been worrying are quite right about it. So,

139

-7 if you hear there is a meeting going on or
anything, it is on finding out how we can
put the country on a hundred million dollar
basis.

Bell:

Ninety million first.

White:

Let's skip the eighty and go to a hundred.

H.M.Jr:

That is right, it is just as easy.
Incidentally, I would love to see Lauch Currie's

memorandum on that, the one that the President
had. It must have come from Lauch.
Bell:

I haven't got it, but I have a memorandum which
Mr. Haas made up for me yesterday. The Presi-

H.M.Jr:

dent, I think, is wrong. The trouble is, he
covered seven years and he should have covered
ten. I think he would have been all right.
I asked somebody to - did I write you? I

Bell:

He is right. On the period, if the President

said, "Is Tom Dewey right or wrong?"

had taken 1930, he would have been all right,
but he took seven years.

Bell:

Well, I am seeing the President today.
of course, they are all after him.

H.M.Jr:

Anything else, Harry?

White:

I take it you want us to continue to follow

H.M.Jr:

Now, industrial diamonds, you are handling,

Gaston:

Yes.

White:

0. K. That is all.

H.M.Jr:

I am still not satisfied with what goes on at

H.M.Jr:

those exports. We have a man up in New York.
aren't you?

Manzanilla.

140

-8White:

Well, I don't know - this information you
have, the Russians are starting a regular
shipping line to Manzanilla and whether
they are shipping that stuff to Mexico because they fear they may have difficulty
in getting the stuff out from here or
whether it is for marine reasons, I don't
know, but apparently they are going to

make Manzanilla one of their important
export points in the western hemisphere,
but I understand that the place certainly
isn't equipped to handle the type of material that is going out now, so maybe
they expect to spend some money there. It
seems to me the story would bear investigating.

H.M.Jr:

Anything else, Harry?

White:

That is all.

H.M.Jr:

Basil?

Harris:

There was an attack by Congressman Brewster

in the House that you may have seen. We are

getting up an answer to it. It is a highly

technical matter. We think we are a hundred

percent correct on it. We will have that

answer by noon and I have been talking with

Danny Bell and we may get somebody on the
Gaston:

floor to answer it.
About the naturalization proposition?

White:

They can have it.

(Discussion off the record)
Harris:

The joke back of this thing is Brewster has
been after Joe Davies. The president of the
company is Clare Chester, who is about the
largest contributor to the Republican party.
He overlooked that one.

Bell:

There were several newspaper articles on

that. Chick might have something. The

141

-9memorandum might go to Rayburn or somebody
on the Ways and Means.

Bell:

Wonderful. The President got a great kick
when I told him that you and Norman Thompson
were looking after Charlie West in order to
help Ohio. He said, "You tell them to look
out for the Hatch Act. Tell those two boys,
Thompson and Bell, not to go beyond the Hatch
Act." The President said parti cularly to
tell you that. He got a great kick that you
fellows were taking care of the State of Ohio.
He got a promotion, I understand.

H.M.Jr:

Who?

Bell:

West.

H.M.Jr:

What do you mean?

Thompson:

It is $7500 after all.

H.M.Jr:

He told Gaston the President promised him Assis-

H.M.Jr:

Bell:

tant Secretary of the Treasury. Don't worry,
boys. Even though you press me, I will not
give him that.
I offered him Director of the Budget one time
and he wouldn't take it.

H.M.Jr:

Anything else?

Harris:

I could say something about that Tennessee dis-

trict, but I think maybe it would be just as
well if I would skip that.

H.M.Jr:

All right. Is it well in hand?

Harris:

Yes, his own hand. There is such a thing as

H.M.Jr:

Learn to run and fight another day.

Harris:

Yes.

H.M.Jr:

Well, I didn't hear anything. I see by the

raising the white flag at the right time.

ticker the President had lunch with Ed Flynn

142

- 10 -

and he had the stuff on his desk. I didn't
get any telephone call. I also left on his

desk that thing of taking away those $80,000
worth of jobs in Customs. Everything else

all right?

Harris:

Yes.

H.M.Jr:

George? Did you see those machine tool fellows

Haas:

No, they went to the hotel (handing report to
Secretary). They were invited, you know, but
they wanted to go to the hotel.
I guess they wanted to get right down to business. Anything else, George?

H.M.Jr:
Haas:

H.M.Jr:

any more yesterday?

That is all.
George, I don't know whether you send me once

a month a report on this Federal Housing. I
would like those reports once a month.

Haas:

All right, I will see that you get them.

H.M.Jr:

They don't look too good.

Haas:

No, they are down some.

H.M.Jr:

Chick?

Schwarz:

I just want to report Mr. Sullivan, Mr. Irey
and myself have been in touch with Pegler
to straighten him out about the fact that we
do look into incomes of labor racketeers.

H.M.Jr:

How do you reach Pegler?

Schwarz:

Through United Features Syndicate at New York.

H.M.Jr:

What Bureau?

We found him at the Waldorf yesterday. He
is coming down within a week or two. He
claims that he was told that by the Bureau,
but he can't remember who told him.

143

- 11 Schwarz:

That we paid no attention to any kind of labor
returns. That is his story. He doesn't know
who it was.

H.M.Jr:

White:

H.M.Jr:

Cochran:

H.M.Jr:

I was kind of bothered about that story of
the Kennedy report which I don't think I
have ever seen, have I, Kennedy's analysis
of the financial situation of England?
You didn't get anything from me, because I
don't know what you are talking about.
I would check up, Merle, and if we haven't,
based on this story, I would like to write
a letter to Mr. Hull and refer to this story
and say if there is such a report in existence
that I would like to have a copy of it.
Yes, sir.
And I think that this report of Cochran's I would like to have Bell and Schwarz and

White read it. In trying to trace it down,
they claim they got some of the story out

of the Treasury Division of Monetary Research.
White:

Kennedy got some?

H.M.Jr:

No.

Schwarz:

Lehrbas.

White:

I don't know him. Is he the Balkan correspondent?

Schwarz:

Yes.

White:

Yes, he has been around and talked to us.

H.M.Jr:

I sent Mr. Hull everything I have and if
Mr. Kennedy has a report on the financial
situation of England, why don't I get it?

White:

There were several long reports that we did

not get, I am sure. We got one very long

report by accident, because we saw a reference

144

- 12 to it in a telegram and we asked Cochran to
get it several months ago and then we got it

about five or six months later. It was a

very careful and long report from the State
Department. I didn't know whether that had
been repeated or not, but there have been
two instances of that. It may have been
errors.

H.M.Jr:

Herbert, will you read this (handing document
to Mr. Gaston)?

How far was I?
Cotton:

I understand the Colombian Ambassador is

writing you a letter showing his understanding
of the situation. I thought you would like
to let me look that over before you make anything public, to see if he has got it right
or not.

H.M.Jr:

I have already asked you to.

Cotton:

Oh, you have?

H.M.Jr:

I asked you (Cochran) to work with Cotton yes-

Cochran:

terday, didn't I?
You told me to write the letter.

H.M.Jr:

Yes, I did.

Cochran:

H.M.Jr:

I am sorry, I don't believe you did. I have

a whole sheet here.

What I had in mind was that I thought I said
you and Cotton should prepare an answer for

me. Well anyway, if I didn't --

Cochran:

Well, it is just an acknowledgment, anyway.

H.M.Jr:

I may or may not have. I had intended that
Cotton should see it and collaborate. Anything
else?

Cochran:

I have nothing except this Russian gold story
that came out in the press this morning about

145

- 13 -

the arrival of the S.S. Kim. That is one

of
the ships that is going down to Manzanillo.
Schwarz:

It is also in the story.

Harris:

By the way, Mr. Secretary, yesterday in the

Customs hearings, Lodge picked up something
about copper and he asked where it was going

and we said Russia and he said, "What?" And

then he started to delve into it and then
he asked for a list of all exports to Russia.

We told him that was the Department of Commerce, but we recommended they get it out if

they have it.

H.M.Jr:

In this room, if the President will let me do
it, if some of these boys that don't like
Russia want to do something, there is completed
in the United States a lathe, 160 feet long,

that will manufacture an 18-inch gun, the
biggest gun in the world, and this manufacturer
has sent down all the plans to the Army and
Navy. He is paying the fines on it out of
his own pocket for non-delivery, waiting for
the Army and Navy to buy it. It is the biggest
lathe in the world to make a gun 165 feet long
with an 18-inch bore. I called up General
Watson last night and I said would he do some-

thing and he said no, I had better talk to
the President myself, it was too big for him,
or words to that effect.

This manufacturer, out of his own pocket, has
been paying the penalty, hoping that the Army
and Navy - I called up Mr. Edison yesterday
to ask him about it and he doesn't even know

about it. I spoke to the people last night

at the house and they said, "We have been

sitting there paying the penalty, hoping someis the money. if
In the contract they wrote with the Russian
Government that it could be released to our
own Army and Navy. It is a perfectly legitimate Russian contract to deliver a lathe
body in Washington would say, 'Thank you, here

146

- 14 165 feet long to make an 18-inch gun and here
it is and the manufacturer has been paying

the penalty, and in there is a clause - what
would you call it, an escape clause? It permits him to sell it to the Army and Navy and
he has had the plans and everything else
in the Army and Navy since last September
and they haven't done anything about it.

White:

Has your information to Edison been sufficient

H.M.Jr:

I am not relying on that, I am seeing the
President about that, plus the fact that the
machine - it is just unbelievable, that the

to start it rolling?

Army and Navy wouldn't do something. But

then, I suppose that is why the President
uses me, because he can't get results. But
he will know about it before I leave town

White:

H.M.Jr:

tonight.
There was an extremely large crate, supposed

to be very valuable, that was awaiting shipment on that boat. They didn't like to open
these large crates because it is very expensive
to close them and the Customs Bureau has to
pay the expense. I don't know what was in it.
I am asking the President whether he won't let
Captain Puleston make a survey of all of these
plants. We know where the stuff is and the

figure given me to buy up all of this stuff
was between 15 and 20 million dollars. It isn't
even like sending one gun. This is a machine
that can turn these guns out as big as anything we own ourselves. It is unbelievable,
the stupidity of the Army and Navy. It just
burns me up. But the President will know
about it before I leave. Isn't it unbelievable?
This manufacturer says, "Mr. Morgenthau, we
sent this all down, the plans and everything,
last September and we have been paying the

penalty out of our own pocket, hoping that
we could take it to an American court to protect it, that there was somebody in Washington
who would say thank you and take it off our
hands. Then we worry about $40,000 worth
of molybdenum.

0

147

- 15 -

Incidentally, Merle, I want to congratulate
you on this monthly statement on the stabilization fund. I see you ran it for less money
this last month than we had ever run it before.
It is a nice statement. Did you see this,
Bell?

Bell:

No.

H.M.Jr:

It is very nice. We made, in the month of
January, the stabilization fund made a half
million dollars and that's the lowest running
expenses we have ever run. Merle is the first
person to take an interest in the expenses.
Herbert?

Gaston:

H.M.Jr:

I haven't anything.
On this Russian gun stuff, we don't want to

get it out, but the President will hit it this

afternoon, I know he will. The interesting
thing is that the American manufacturer is
willing to pay the penalties and he sits there
waiting for somebody to come around and take
it off his hands. I can't understand why some
Senator or Congressman hasn't learned about it
before.

If anybody wants to see me, if they will tell
McKay, we will fix it up. I am seeing Bell
from 11:00 to 12:00. If I don't see you all
again, I won't be on the telephone so it is
safe to play golf or tiddle winks. I hope you
Thompson:

all get some fun while I am gone.
If the weather man will behave.

Bell:

You probably will want to get the last thing
on this conference this afternoon.

H.M.Jr:

Yes. Well, I have kept myself - the only
person I am seeing, I am seeing Jerome Frank,
which you had better sit in on.

Bell;

What time is that?

148

- 16 H.M.Jr:

He is coming at 3:00. But it won't take but
a few minutes. I want to tell him about
Gifford, who is here on British securities.
You (Cochran) had better be in on that, too,
so that you will know about it and Mr. Bell
may want you to contact Gifford while I am
gone so there isn't too much falls on him.

White:

Are you going to be at that conference? You
might want to read that memorandum of their
foreign exchange assets that we prepared a

H.M.Jr:
White:

few days ago for the British.
What is that, Harry?

On the British. It will give you some idea of
what they are up against, possibly, if you are
going to take any action.

H.M.Jr:

Why, do you want to come in at 3:00?

White:

No, I don't.

H.M.Jr:

Are you interested?

White:

Not enough to come around, no.

H.M.Jr:

If it is difficult, I can get you a pair of

roller skates.
O. K.

show
tong
aci's

149

DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE
WASHINGTON

February 8, 1940

Hon. Henry Morgenthau, Jr.

Secretary of the Treasury
Dear Henry:

The newspaper notice of the President's appointment of
an interdepartmental committee "to represent the United States

government in all matters relating to the purchase of military

or naval supplies, materials and equipment purchased in the United
States by the United States government or by foreign governments,"
has just been brought to my attention.

This suggests that you might be interested in the attached
letter which I received from Thomas E. Wilson of the Wilson Packing
Company, who is a member of our Agricultural Advisory Council. I
have given this letter to the State Department but I think you
should have it in your capacity as liaison officer between the
President and this new committee.

Sincerely yours,

Hawallace

Enclosure

Secretary

150

February 8, 1940

Hon. Henry Morgenthau, Jr.

Secretary of the Treasury
Dear Henrys

The newspaper notice of the President's appointment of
an interdepartmental committee "to represent the United States

government in all matters relating to the purchase of military

or naval supplies, materials and equipment purchased in the United
States by the United States government or by foreign governments,"
has just been brought to my attention.

This suggests that you night be interested in the attached

letter which I received from Thomas E. Wilson of the Wilson Packing
Company, who is a member of our Agricultural Advisory Council. I

have given this letter to the State Department but I think you
should have it in your capacity as liaison officer between the
President and this new committee.

Sincerely yours,
(Signed)

Hawallace
Enclosure

Secretary

(copy)

151
WILSON & CO., INC.
Chicago

January 22, 1940

Dear Mr. Secretary:

There have been several new developments pertaining to the pork and

lard export trade with the United Kingdom since the meeting of the Agricultural Advisory Council in your office on January 16.
You are, no doubt, aware of the fact that the British Government has
added hams, bacon and lard to the list of products, the imports of which are
prohibited except under license. This order became effective January 20,
but does not apply to pork and lard en route to the nited Kingdom prior to

that date. Our British representatives believe it will be possible to obtain

license for shipping product intended for United Kingdom in cure on January 20,but
as yet we have not received any absolute assurances that this request will
be granted.

Our representatives are very pessimistic about the possibilities of
shipping additional supplies under license. They have recommended that we
discontinue processing bacon and hams for England, and we are following their
recommendation. The outlook is equally unfavorable for the shipment of lard.

In view of these developments it now looks as though there is a strong likelihood that operation under the import license will be about equivalent to an
embargo on American pork and lard similar to that in effect for certain other
American farm products.

We have been advised indirectly that Canadian shipments to the United
Kingdom have exceeded 7 million pounds weekly during several recent weeks,
which is far in excess of the required volume of 2,000 long tons weekly under
the United Kingdom-Canadian agreement, and the Canadian product is of course

being purchased at a relatively high price. It has been rumored that the

British Government contemplates asking the Canadian Bacon Board to ourtail
shipments somewhat and arrange for Canadian packers to store the product for

British account to be shipped at a later date. All of this provides additional
evidence that the British Government intends to purchase very little, if any,

pork products from the United States.

I hope it will be possible for you to use your good offices in registering a strong protest with the British Government against this recent action

apparently intended to exclude American pork products from the British market.
We appreciate, of course, the magnitude of the problems confronting the United

Kingdom at this time and the necessity for careful control over their foreign
exchange; but in view of the steps that have been taken by the United States
which permit the purchase of greatly needed war materials in this country, it
would seem that we are fully justified in protesting the discrimination shown
against the United States farm products, especially pork and lard, essential food
items of which we have a supplus and are available at such low prices.
Sincerely yours,
Hon. Henry A. Wallace

Secretary of Agriculture
Washington, D. C.

/a/ Thos. E. Wilson

152

February 12, 1940.

My dear Mr. Secretary:

In the absence of the Secretary I am
acknowledging your letter of February 8th,

which encloses a copy of a communication
you have received from Mr. Thomas E. Wilson,
Wilson and Company. Incorporated, Chicago,

Illinois. I know that Mr. Margenthau will
be glad to see this letter, and I shall
bring it to its attention as soon as he is
back in the office.
Sincerely yours,

(Signed) H. S. Klotz
H. S. Klots,
Private Secretary.

Honorable Henry A. Wallace,

Secretary of Agriculture,

Washington, D. C.
GEF/dbs

By Messenger

3

15/pm 2/12/40

153

February 12, 1940.

My dear Mr. Secretary:

In the absence of the Secretary I am
acknowledging your letter of February 8th,

which encloses a copy of a communication
you have received from Mr. Thomas 1. Wilson,
Wilson and Company, Incorporated, Chicago,

Illinois. I know that Mr. Mor gentheu will
be glad to see this letter, and I shall
bring it to his attention as soon as he is
back in the office.
Sincerely yours,

(Signed) H. S. Klotz
H. S. Klots,
Private Secretary.

Honorable Henry A. Wallace,

Secretary of Agriculture,
Washington, D. C.
GEF/dbs

By Messenger 3 pan 2/13/40

154

February 12, 1940.

My dear Mr. Secretary:

In the absence of the Secretary I am
acknovledging your letter of February 8th,

which encloses a copy of a communication
you have received from Mr. Thomas 1. Wilson,
Wilson and Company, Incorporated, Chicago,

Illinois. I know that Mr. Morgenthau will
be glad to see this letter, and I shall
bring it to his attention as soon as he is
back in the office.

Sincerely yours,

(Signed) H. S. Klotz
H. S. Nots,

Private Secretary.

Honorable Henry A. Wallace,

Secretary of Agriculture,
Washington, D. C.
GEF/dbs

By Messenger

3

found 2/10/60

155

TREASURY DEPARTMENT
PROCUREMENT DIVISION
FFICE OF THE DIRECTOR

WASHINGTON

February 8, 1940
MEMORANDUM FOR THE SECRETARY

Mr. Stillwell phoned me yesterday afternoon at 5:30 and stated that yesterday's meeting with the engine manufacturers had served to further crystallize
the machine tool situation and that he felt deliveries could be speeded up to
meet dates which had been promised.

Mr. Ward of Pratt & Whitney also talked with me later and stated that he
felt that yesterday's meeting would result most advantageously to the airplane industry.

While talking with Mr. Stillwell he also reiterated a desire that representatives of the machine tool industry be allowed to sit in on the next meeting
that might be had between the airplane industry and Allied representatives.

He was informed that he would be advised when such meeting was scheduled and

invited to send representatives to it.
He also stated that, unless some difficulties presently unseen developed,
he doubted if it would be necessary for them to come to Washington again on
the 21st as suggested. On this matter, however, he promised to contact me

further at a later date.

He asked me to particularly express to you his very deep appreciation, as

well as that of the machine tool industry, for the interest that you have
taken in this matter and for the helpful meetings that you arranged.

Director of Procurement

Jennin

156

TREASURY DEPARTMENT
INTER OFFICE COMMUNICATION
DATE

TO

Mr Hester
February 8, 1940.

Secretary Morgenthau

FROM

Mr. Haas KOR
Dr. Lubin just telephoned me and said that the Civil
Aeronautics Authority had asked his bureau for employment figures
for the various airplane companies. Dr. Lubin's bureau advised
the Civil Aeronautics Authority that the employment figures were
confidential, but they would be glad to furnish them to the
Authority if the individual companies would advise Dr. Lubin to
release them. (It was by this arrangement that we obtained the
employment figures.) This suggested arrangement aggravated the

Authority and they said they would contact the companies direct
to get the employment figures. Dr. Lubin said they wanted the
figures because they were concerned about commercial plane pro-

duction in this country.
Dr. Lubin thought you should know about this before you
left town, as he was apprehensive that this agency might upset
the program on which you are now working.

DWB discussed the above with

Haas 2-9-40 - and with Hester
of the CAA on 2-13-40 (Haas
present when he talked with Heater
over phone)

157
C

0

P

PROPOSAL FOR PERMANENT SETTLEMENT

OF THE DIRECT DOLLAR DEBT

OF THE COLOMBIAN GOVERNMENT

1. The proposal relates to $45 millions principal face
amount of direct obligations, 1. e. the amount assumed
to be outstanding exclusive of repatriated bonds which
cannot be tendered for sinking fund purposes. It 18
assumed that the Government-guaranteed mortgage bank
debt will be otherwise taken care of.
2. The $45 millions of old bonds will become an equivalent
face amount of 35-year term bonds, maturing 1975.
3. Current interest at 3% for the first 15 years and 4%
thereafter. In addition to current interest, during
the first 15 years payment on account of unpaid interest arrears accrued will be made at the rate of
1% on the currently outstanding face amount of bonds,
resulting in an effective interest rate throughout
the life of the settlement of 4%.
4.

No sinking fund obligations in the first year. Thereafter each year there will be applied for sinking fund

purposes, by purchase of bonds on tender or redemption,
any saving in interest over the maximum amount required
by way of interest in any prior year and, in addition,
the Colombian Government will agree to put the Fiscal
Agent in funds to retire a minimum of $600 thousand

face amount of bonds. In any year in which the value
of Colombian exports to the United States fell below
the amount of some base year agreed upon, the obligation to put the Fiscal Agent in funds to retire $600

thousand face amount of bonds would be waived, but the
Colombian Government would guarantee to pay the Fiscal

Agent a minimum of $2 millions each year for service
of the bonds, including sinking fund purposes.

158

EXCERPT OF CONFERENCE WITH UNDERSECRETARY

February 8, 1940
11:00 a. m.

(Mr. Cotton entered the conference)
H.M.Jr:

Bell:
Cotton:

It was just a piece of Morgenthau luck.
Well, it went very well and I thought they
were very pleased to get it.
Mr. Traphagen called me yesterday, day be-

fore, I guess it was and I talked to Mr. Bell
a little about it. If you will remember, he

wrote me a letter setting forth the proposition for a permanent settlement he thought he
could get through the Council. Since this
temporary agreement was agreed to, he out it
up to the Council and said he could get it
through. I thought you might want to consider
it. He says that he is unwilling to put it
forward, because he feels that he will be
treaded on. He thinks that has happened before, but if the Colombians would put it up,
he would accept it and could guarantee getting
it through. I told him I would tell you about

it.

H.M.Jr:

What is the proposal?

Cotton:

Well, this summarizes it (handing proposal to

H.M.Jr:

Well, it is just a matter of physical time.

Secretary).

I can't sit down with these gentlemen between
now and 5:00 o'clock. And, as I was saying

to Bell, I think we had a piece of luck the
other day that everybody just happened to be
psychologically ready to state that they wanted
to settle and it was a piece of luck, but without seeing these people face to face, I wouldn't
want to - I wouldn't know what would happen.

Bell:

Does Laylin know any part of this?

159

2-

Cotton:

No, not unless Traphagen told him. I talked
to Larry Duggan a little bit about it. He was
over here one day. I explained it to him and
I think he hoped that possibly something might
be done with it. I am not very optimistic,
because I think they are still pretty far apart,
but at least this is something the Council would
accept. Now, whether it would be the time to use

it, or whether it can be used, it is hard to tell.

H.M.Jr:

What do you think, Dan? Whatever 18 going to be

done, you are going to have to do it in the next
ten days.

Bell:

Well, I think that this 4 percent rate in 15 years

Cotton:

I told him I didn't think he could get this

might be a stumbling block.

settlement on that interest rate the way things
were going and he said well, it was as far as
he could go, that they would prefer to stand on
the temporary settlement, that they would not
cut this down. I think he varied the sinking

fund provision a little bit, but not on the interest. He is a pretty straight fellow, I think.

That is his last word.
Well, perhaps you might want to -- I just showed
it to Duggan, I mean. It is not in the possession of the State Department or Jones or anybody

else.

Bell:

Well, it might be that if you have no objection
that if they ask for a meeting that we might
get together with Jones and Welles beforehand
and discuss as to how a thing like this might
be handled.

H.M.Jr:

I will leave it to you.

Bell:

If we think the time is good or we have another
psychological situation as you referred to,
maybe we can put it forward as just a suggestion
for consideration rather than seeing the negotiations break down.

160

-3Cotton:

Right. I would suggest that when you get this
note from Traphagen -- it seemed to me the
Ambassador's letter to you was not quite complete
in the sense of he didn't mention when the interest would be paid. You said it ought to be
paid half on the 15th. He doesn't say that in
his letter and also he doesn't say anything about
the negotiations to go forward on the guaranteed
debt, either, which were specific enough. So I
think when Traphagen writes us, in a transmitting
letter, or something, we might say issues have
been called to our attention which were agreed to.

H.M.Jr:
Cotton;

It is a good point.
All right.

H.M.Jr:

Thank you.

Bell:

He doesn't say anything about it in his letter,
does he, Traphagen?

Cotton:

Has the Traphagen letter come in?

H.M.Jr:

I hadn't seen it.

Bell:

Mrs. Klotz just handed it to me.

H.V.Jr:

I see.

Cotton:

Well, he doesn't mention it, either, does he?

Bell:

No.

H.M.Jr:

Turbay said he would do that. When Welles calls

me up today on this thing, I will remind him to
remind Turbay it is to be the 15th.

00 o 00 O 00

161

TREASURY DEPARTMENT
INTER OFFICE COMMUNICATION
DATE

Febr: 8, 1940.

Secretary Mergenthau

TO

FROM

Mr. Haas IDA

Subject:

Jan.

Wheat export sales and other market data from the
Federal Surplus Commodities Corporation.

30: A cargo of about 330,000 bushels of wheat was sold
by an exporter for shipment from the Columbia River
to Shanghai.

Imports of wheat flour into Cuba in 1939, which
totaled 1,042,000 bags of 200 pounds each, are
reported as the largest recorded in the last ten
years and compare with imports of 1,034,000 bags in
1938. This shows the growing importance of wheat

flour in Cuba's national diet.

Jan. 31: Sales of Manitoba wheat were estimated at about
300,000 bushels to the Continent. No demand appeared for United States wheat.
Exports of wheat from the United States in the week
ending January 27 totaled 126,000 bushels. Wheat
exports thus far this season totaled 13,387,000
bushels.

Feb. 1:

It was estimated that approximately 200,000 bushels
of United States wheat were sold to the Continent
and possibly 400,000 to 500,000 to the United
Kingdom. It was also reported that some small lots
of hard wheat had been sold for shipment from the

Gulf to the Continent.

Feb. 3:

Very little wheat has been sold abroad since the
war started but there 18 a possibility that some
additional sales will be made soon on Pacific Coast
wheat if freight space can be obtained at a reasonable price. It is estimated that about 4,000,000
bushels of Argentine wheat have been lost by sinking up to January 1, but this is regarded as very
small. No report 18 given as to the amount of
Canadian and other grain lost.

162

Secretary Morgenthau - 2

It is thought that there will be very little foreign

demand for United States corn when Argentine corn 18

available in larger quantities.

Feb. 5:

A cargo of wheat was worked to Shanghai from the

Pacific Coast on a subsidy basis. A good-sized export business was also done in flour to China and
the Philippines. The bulk of this export flour
business was done by country mills. There is a demand for several more cargoes of flour if space can
be secured at the right figure.
Neutrals are reported to have bought 500,000 bushels
of United States corn.

163

February 8, 1940
2:52 p.m.

HMJr:

Hello.

Arthur
Purvis:

Yes, Mr. Secretary.

HMJr:

Mr. Purvis, you know that memorandum you gave me

P:

Yes.

HMJr:

And

P:.

Yes, that's right.

HMJr:

And I showed it to the President.

P:

Yes.

about Mr. Rist

HMJr:

And he said it was all right, let him come.
Oh, splendid! I'm delighted.
So that clears that.

P:

Thank you 80 much.

HMJr:

So

P:

I feel very pleased about that.

HMJr:

All right.

P:

And I do hope you have a nice holiday.

HMJr:

I'm going to.
(Laughs) I know -- `all right, splendid.

HMJr:
P:

P:

HMJr:

All right.

P:

Thank you very much.

HMJr:

Goodbye.

P:

Goodbye.

164

February 8, 1940
3:00 p.m.
HMJr:

Hello.

Operator:

Captain Puleston is out until three-thirty.

HMJr:

Well, what's his man's name down there?

O:

Mr. Kamarck.

HMJr:

Yeah, let me talk to him.

0:

Right.

(Brief pause.)
HMJr:
O:

HMJr:

Hello.

Yes, sir.
Is he there?

HMJr:

Yes, he's there.
What's the matter with that fellow down there?

0:

Mr. Kamarck.

HMJr:

This is the Secretary speaking.

Andrew M.
Kamarck:

Yes, sir.

HMJr:

This morning Captain Puleston gave me a memorandum

O:

on an 18-inch gun.

K:

HMJr:

K:

HMJr:

Yes, sir.

Well, I gave that to the President, so I'd like the
Captain to give Mrs. Klotz another copy for my files.
Yes, sir.
And tell Captain Puleston that the President is
referring that to the Munitions Board.

K:

Yes, sir.

HMJr:

O. K.

K:

All right. Goodbye.

165

February 8, 1940

I called Sumner Welles at 8:15 this morning after
I had seen in the papers that the Republic of Colombia

bonds had gone up one point and suggested that we announce
today that Colombia and the Protective Bondholders Committee
had come to an agreement the details of which would be an-

nounced on February 15th. I said I thought that we were
taking an unnecessary risk by keeping this an official secret while all the members of the Bondholders Committee
knew it and the public did not. Welles agreed with me
and said that he would let me know later in the day how
the Colombians would feel about it.

166
February 8. 1940
My dear Senator:

The additional information concerning Russian gold which I

referred to in my let ter to you of February 1, 1940, is now available.
The Bureau of the Mint reports the receipt of gold bars bearing
a Russian stamp and Russian gold cois in the following amounts during
the calendar years 1934 to 1939:
Calendar
Year
1934
1935
1936
1937
1938
1939

Refined Bullion
Bearing Russian stamp
-

$ 1,672

-

140

$

-

3,839,360
110,674,690
48,941,270
52.979.338

Total

Russian Coin

35
70

6,045

1,707 1
140

3,839,360
110,674,725
48,941,340
52,985,383

1/ Includes crude bullion in the amount of $35.
The Mint reports however do not indicate the country from which

this gold was actually shipped. As set forth in my letter to you of

February 1, 1940, the Department of Commerce reported that only

$31 million of gold was imported directly from Russia during this

period.

For your further information, the Mint reports that approximately
$5 million of gold shipped directly from Russia (Vladivostock) has
just arrived at San Francisco. This gold is being sold to the

U. S. Mint at San Francisco.

Very truly yours,
(Signed) H. Morgenthau, Jr.

Secretary of the Treasury

Honorable Arthur H. Vandenberg,

United States Senate.
File to Mr. Thompson

copied from JSH:esh - 2-7-40 draft
with changes made by
DWB:ce - 2-8-40

Forwarded from Bell's office at 11:20
a.m. 2/8/40 and file turned over to us.
(Copies sent to Senators Wagner and

Barkley from Foley's office.)

167

PLAIN

JT

LONDON

Dated February 9, 1940
Rec'd 3:43 p.m.

Secretary of State,
Washington.

350, February 9, 7 p.m.
FOR TREASURY FROM BUTTERWORTH

Simon made a speech in the HOUSE of Commons on his policy

of subsidizing wheat, milk, meat and bacon, reported in
paragraph 2 of my 290, February 1, and defined "its general

significance" as follows:

1. He admitted "that taken by itself, unless it is accompanied by other things, it is not really a complete policy
at all" and he referred to Keynes' letter (paragraph 2,
my 315, February 6, 6 p.m.) and concurred that "it was rather
in the nature of an ingredient in a comprehensive policy".
2. HE emphasized that "the policy of rationing the rise
of prices might be regarded as a contribution to the rationing of the rise of wages" and in this connection he made much
of the fact that although the food index rose 19 points from
the outbreal of war to December 1 he had by his intervention
prevented a further rise of 12 points.
3. HE stated "that with definite EXCEPTIONS you cannot
wisely

168

-2- #350, Feb. 9, 7 p.m., from London
wisely take deliberate steps, Exchequer steps, to make
articles of consumption cheaper than they would otherwise be
unless you are also to take steps to SECURE that the result

will not be an increase in their consumption."
Although Simon did not define in specific terms what the
"comprehensive policy" was to be, there are not a few who
are pressing for such precision.
As to specific Expenditure, it has been running at
61,115,000 a WEEK made up of 1480,000 for wheat, $235,000 for

milk, 6320,000 for meat and 680,000 for bacon. (These figures
are Exclusive of the subsidies which have been paid OVER a

period of years to home producers). On this basis the
Treasury's loss would amount to nearly 658 million a year

rather than the 650 million a year stated in the initial
announcement. This tends to reinforce the view EXPRESSED in

the last paragraph of my 315, February 5, 6 p.m.

The c oncluding paragraph of an #ditorial in today's
TIMES is a noteworthy, authoritative summary.
"From Sir John Simon's speech it is clear that the policy
of the Government is so far as practicable to check any furthe
increase in the cost of those things which are absolutely

necessary. REnt is already controlled. An attempt is now
being made to stabilize the prices of ESSENTIAL foodstuffs and
the

169

-3- #350, Feb. 9, 7 p.m., from London

the Chancellor intimated that consideration is being given
to the cost of clothing, the most important of the other

items in the cost-of-living index. This is a most difficult
problem but it plainly cannot be left to settle itself.
Heavy calls from the services and from the Export trade will
leave the supply of wool for home civilian consumption so far
behind the demand that if nothing is done to prevent it prices
will soar so high that people with small incomes will be

unable to afford a decent suit of clothes. Various suggestion
have/DEEN made - for example the provision of standard types

of different garments to be sold at standard prices possibly
under SOME system of rationing but so far no definite plan
SEEMS to have been out before the Government. If the cost

of living can be held more or less stationary there will be
much less pressure to increase wages. This however it is
WELL to repeat is only one side of the Effort to ward off
inflation. In order to be Effective it demands a system of
rationing much more comprehensive than has yet been contem-

plated since the less spent on rationed goods the more there
will be left to spend on those that are not rationed and the
more difficult it will be to KEEP their prices within bounds.
The other side of the Effort is the diversion by means of
taxation and saving of purchasing power from the private
consumer

170

-4- 350, Feb. 9, 7 p.m., from London
consumer to the government sufficient to SECURE the necessary

Equilibrium between it and the reduced supply of goods

available for civilian consumption".
JOHNSON
CSB

BYO

LEB

10

N 11 11

STRICTLY CONFIDENTIAL
TREASURY DEPARTMENT
INTER-OFFICE COMMUNICATION

M
171

DATE February 8, 1940
TO

Secretary Morgenthan

FROM Mr. Cochran

Following this morning's staff meeting, I telephoned Mr. Stone in the
Office of the Secretary of State. I mentioned the article by Lehrbas which
appearedin the Washington Star on February 6, and I referred to the press
reports which had come out at the time of Ambassador Kennedy's return to the

United States, speculating as to the significance of the confidential report,
which it was understood the Ambassador was making to our Government, pre-

sumably upon the British financial and economic situation, and general
capacity for carrying on the war. I told Mr. Stone that we had never seen
such a report in the Treasury Department, and let him know of our interest
in being permitted access to such a document if it really exists. Stone
said that he knew nothing of such a report, but would inquire and let me hear

from him. If such a report is in the Department of State, he said that
naturally it would be a pleasure to send it over to the Secretary. When

Stone volunteered to speak with Lehrbas, whom he knows and whom Secretary

Hull regards highly, in regard to the origin of his story, I asked Stone to
refrain from this since certain inquiries had already been made. I told
him that our principal interest is in seeing the Kennedy report.

MMR.
February 9, 1940

Mr. Stone telephoned me back from the State Department this morning.

He stated that it had been impossible to confirm that there was any confidential report of the character in question from our Embassy in London,
excepting the document on securities which the Secretary of the Treasury
had arranged for the State Department to have. Mr. Stone said that there
was no report from Mr. Kennedy, as far as the State Department was aware.
If there had been any, it presumably was made to the President alone.

B.M.S

TREASURY DEPARTMENT

172

INTER-OFFICE COMMUNICATION

DATE February 8. 1940
TO

Secretary Morgenthau

FROM

Mr. Cochran

CONFIDENTIAL

There was very little activity in the foreign exchange market today.
After opening at 3.98-1/4, sterling advanced in the mid-morning to a high
of 3.98-1/2. During the afternoon, the rate eased to close at 3.98.
Sales of spot sterling by the four reporting banks totaled L222,000,

from the following sources:

L 54,000

By commercial concerns

By foreign banks (Europe and South America)

L 168,000

Total

L 222,000

Purchases of spot sterling amounted to 1122,000, as indicated below:
L 132,000

By commercial concerns

L 20,000

By foreign banks (South America)
Total

L 152,000

The following reporting banks sold cotton bills totaling 28,000 to
the British Control on the basis of the official rate of 4.02-1/2.
L 15,000 by the Guaranty Trust Company

13,000 by the National City Bank
L 28,000 Total

The other important currencies closed as follows:
French france
Guilders
Swiss france

.5320

Belgas

.1683

.0225-1/2
.2242-1/2

Canadian dollars 13 discount
The Federal Reserve Bank of New York purchased 75,000 Swiss france and

30,000 belgas for the Bank of Latvia.
We purchased the following amounts of gold from the earmarked accounts
of the banks indicated:
$15,000,000 from the National Bank of Switzerland
620,000 from the National Bank of Belgium
$15,620,000 Total

173

-2The Federal Reserve Bank of New York reported that two shipments of
gold were being consigned to it by the South African Reserve Bank, to be
earmarked for account of the following banks:
$4,458,000 for account of the Bank of Sweden
2,681,000 for account of the Netherlands Bank
$7,139,000 Total

Today's silver quotation in the Bombay market worked out to the equiva-

lent of 39.86 The gain of about 7/16 exactly offset the drop which
occurred yesterday.

The London fixing prices for spot and forward silver were unchanged at
21-1/2d and 21-3/8d respectively. The U. S. equivalents were 38.52 and
38.05
Handy and Harman's price for foreign silver was unchanged at 34-3/44.
The Treasury's price was also unchanged at 35.
We made nineteen purchases of silver totaling 2,562,000 ounces under

the Silver Purchase Act. The sources of this silver were as follows:
Ounces

Inventory silver
New production from foreign countries.
Trading silver
Secondary materials
Total

1,096,000
862,000
538,000
66,000

2,562,000

The newly produced silver was bought for forward delivery, and silver in the
other three categories was for delivery tomorrow in New York,
The substantial increase in the amount of silver offered to us was due
to the report appearing on the Dow Jones ticker that the silver subcommittee
of the Senate Banking and Currency Committee had approved the Townsend Bill

for repeal of foreign silver purchase provisions in the Silver Purchase Act.

According to the Dow Jones news item, Chairman Wagner of the Banking group

stated that the subconmittee would make a report to the full committee on the

Townsend measure at its meeting next Tuesday. The aforementioned news item

noted that there is considerable support in Congress for the legislation,

and that last session Chairman Eccles of the Federal Reserve Bank advocated

the suspension of further silver purchases from foreign sources.
We also purchased 40,000 ounces of silver from the Bank of Canada under
our regular monthly agreement.

CONFIDENTIAL

174

-3Mr. Knoke telephoned me from New York today to give the following figures
obtained in confidence from the Chase Bank in regard to Russian balances with
that bank as of the close of business on February 7. compared with January 26.
The account of the State Bank of Russia declined from $4,500,000 to $940,000.
Letters of credit of the State Bank rose from $6,200,000 to $9,700,000. The
Amtorg balance declined from $1,000,000 to $890,000. Amtorg letters of credit

declined slightly from $2,100,000 to $2,022,000. The significant feature of
these figures is the indication that less business is being done with Russia
on a normal credit basis, and that letters of credit must be put up before
American exporters will ship to Russia. The principal in-payments into the

State Bank account during the period under review included $2,600,000 made by
the Swiss Bank Corporation; $500,000 from the Union Bank of Switzerland and
$850,000 from the Rotterdan Bank. It is possible that these sums may have

been the proceeds of Russian gold sales, it being logical that Russia should
attempt to dispose of gold on nearby markets, now that shipment to England is
practically closed. Among the out-payments from the State Bank of Russia
account was one to Amtorg of $2,600,000 and two to the Banco di Roma, each

of $250,000. Further inquiry is being made to determine the significance of

the payments to the Italian bank. One out-payment from the Amtorg was the sum
of $150,000 to the Commissioner of the World's Fair at New York.

In connection with the shipment of Russian gold from Vladivostok which
reached San Francisco yesterday, Mr. Rovensky told Mr. Knoke that the Chase

had no word of this shipment until last Friday, although the possibility of
the Chase handling shipments of Russian gold from Vladivostok to the Pacific
Coast had been the subject of correspondence several months ago.

CONFIDENTIAL

STRICTLY CONFIDENTIAL
TREASURY DEPARTMENT
INTER-OFFICE COMMUNICATION

DATE February 8, 1940
TO

Secretary Morgenthau

FROM Mr. Cochran

At 11:15 today Mr. Chen dropped in to see me. He had visited earlier
in the day with Messrs. Jones and Pierson. When congratulating Mr. Jones
upon the success of the move in the Senate to increase the funds of the
Export-Import Bank and to make it possible for China to be eligible to receive a further credit of $20,000,000, Mr. Jones told Mr. Chen not to be
too optimistic prematurely, since there might be some difficulty in the
House. Mr. Jones also told Chen to work with Mr. Pierson toward reducing
the list of Chinese requirements, since $75,000,000 is entirely out of
question. Chen is working in this direction. He told me that he sought to
have the anticipated new credit of $20,000,000 be of a revolving nature.
Mr. Jones refused, but agreed to talk the matter over again with Mr. Chen

if the full credit should be utilized, and further funds needed. Chen said
also that Mr. Jones withdrew his promise that the original credit of

$25,000,000 to China should be considered a revolving one. It appears

that Jones was willing to attempt to make this a revolving credit, if legislation to increase the bank's funds should have failed, but that now with the
outlook favorable for a new credit to China, he is not willing to take steps
toward making the outstanding credit revolving, or to pledge that any new
one will from the start have such a character.

Mr. Chen is much encouraged, and was anxious to tell the Secretary
personally, or if this is not possible, through me, how much he appreciated
the assistance which the Secretary has rendered in the premises. Chen is

sure that this aid will be most timely, and will do much to strengthen

Chinese morale.

KMP.

Mr. Chen called again at 4:30 this afternoon to let me know that he
had seen Messrs. Jones and Pierson at 4 o'clock. Mr. Jones had agreed to
the idea of a $20,000,000 credit for seven years, against 40,000 tons of
tin to be delivered over a period of years. Mr. Jones turned Mr. Chen
over to Mr. Pierson to discuss terms of the contract. Mr. Chen is trying

to get the interest reduced below 43% The whole project is still contingent, of course, upon Congress appropriating the money.

B.M.P.

175

176
BUREAU OF FOREIGN AND DOMESTIC COMMERCE

OFFICE OF THE DIRECTOR

2/9/40
From

To

DIRECTOR

Hon. Henry Morgenthau, Jr.,
Secretary of the Treasury

For

The attached notes on Economic Developments dated February 8, 1940 are sent

to you at the request of Mr. Noble,

Under Secretary of Commerce.

James W. Young
4 ames
m. you r
Director.

177

February 8, 1940
DOMESTIC ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENTS

PRELIMINARY TABULATION of December data from the Buresu's new cur-

rent business information service provides quantitative data
which support the analysis of the business situation presented
in last week's report. The thread of the analysis need not be
repeated here but you will find details in attached tables very
interesting.
Particularly to be noted is the decline in new orders from November to December of 15 percent and the large reductions among the
durable goods indu tries. New business in the steel industry was
not only below November by a fifth but it was off from a year ago
by approximately the same percentage. The rapid contraction of
steel production has occasioned considerable comment but it is not
surprising in view of the above. For all other major durable goods
industries, December 1939 was much higher than a year ago.

EXAMPLES: November-December declines in new orders.

Iron and steel

-13 percent
-21

-7
-36
-22

.

Electrical machinery
Machinery (other)
Transportation equipment (except autos)
Furniture and other finished lumber

.

.

.

-8

.

Nonferrous metals

SIGNIFICANCE: This slackening in new business accounts for the

decline in production now in progress. The Reserve Board's index of industrial produ tion was 120 for January after 128 for
December. We had previously figured on 115 for February, but it
looks now as though it will be over-perhaps 112. (See attached

chart for inventory picture.)

THE FALLING OFF of new orders has been reflected in decided weakness

in prices of industrial raw materials since the first of the year.
(See attached chart.) About one-third of the advance in this

sensitive index subsequent to the outbreak of war has been cancelled.
EXAMPLES:

Dec. 29, 1939 Feb. 7. 1940
DESCRIBENT

Copper

(cents per 1b.)

Zinc
Lead INVOLEB a

bN

Tin
Hides

Steel scrap

Silk

Print cloth

(dol. par ton)
(dol. per 1b.)
(cents per yard)

12.50
6.39
5.50
49.00
15.00
17.67
4.50
5.50

11.25
5.89
5.00
45.00

13.00
17.08

3.20
5.25

178

-2-

SIGNIFICANCE: Not such buying interest has been created by
the price concessions to date as most consumers of these

materials are well stocked as result of previous aggressive
purchasing.

EXTENT to which profits were increased by the fourth quarter ex-

pansion in production is indicated in attached chart. We
estimate on data now available that the earnings of the 167

corporations charted increased about 50 percent over the
fourth quarter of 1938 and were not far below the 1937 peak.
(of course, these are the larger and generally more successful
companies.)
Outstanding gains were made in automobiles, steel,
and chemicals,
EXAMPLES:

Fourth Quarter
1939

1938

(Million dollars)
United States Steel
Bethlehen Steel
Inland Steel
Youngstown Sheet & Tube

Du Pont (Ex-General Motors
Dividend)
Hercules Powder

General Motors

Caterpillar Tractor
Westinghouse

28.8
13.0
4.6
3.7

3.7
1.8
0.1

17.9
1.7
73.7
2.1
4.8

11.6
1.1
63.8
1.2
2.8

404

SIGNIFICANCE: This demonstrates that the cause of low profits
has been lack of volume and not unfavorable cost-price relation-

ships. The profits currently being reported are large by the
standards of previous good years.

BRIGHT SPOT at the moment is the export picture. The export total

for January, with some documents still missing, is 349 million

dollars. This compares with the final figure of 357 million for
December and 210 million for January 1939. The final January
1940 figures will undoubtedly exceed December. (We shall anslyse the trade in next week's report when the completed tabulations are available.)

179

ORZIDHAXIAL

TOTAL NET SALES REPORTED. BY INDUSTRIES

December 1930 Report

:

Industries

:Percentage Change:

:No. firms: December 1939
from
;Reporting:

Nov.1939;Dec,1938

44

Tobacco

10

Textiles

51

- 8.9

-18.4
5.5

+16.8
+10.3

7,687
26,406

1.5

1.0

44

-12.5

+16.7

3,183
42,078

18

+ 0.1

16

- 9.9

9.5

16

9.7

9.9
+10.9

97,323
20,804
16,960

20

-10.9

69

0.0

+26.6
+63.0

17,411
222,242

+ 3.4
+ 7.0

+92.8
+64.3

29,395
55,043

- 3.4

15

+ 3.1
+ 1.9
+ 3.0

+23.3
+33.9
424.3
7.2

79,385
36,633
297,864
6,129

587

0.9

424.1

1,221,611

34

8

24

Printing, Publishing, and Allied

Stone, Clay, and Glass Products
Iron and Steel and Their Products
Transportation Equipment (except Automobiles)

Non-Ferrous Metals and Their Products

6

21

19

Electrical Machinery
Machinery (except Electrical)

41

Automobiles and Auto Equipment

40

Miscellaneous Manufacturing Industries
TOTAL

79

+ 0.5
-22.5

-

:

Furniture and Finished Lumber Products
Paper and Allied Products

Leather and Leather Products

$ 181,326

9.1
+36.5

12

Natural Gas
Rubber Products

-1.1

- 9.3

35,387
39,896
2,356
4,103

Apparel and Other Finished Products
Lamber and Timber Basic Products

Industries
Chemicals and Allied Products
Products of Petroleum, goal and

+1.4

+ 0.5

Sales

(000 omitted)

:

Food and Kindred Products

Net

+16.9

-X

180

December 1959 Report
Persentage Change:

Industries

1No. firms:
Reporting:

December 1939

Total
New Orders

(000 emitted)
Food and Kindred Products

6

Tobacco

-

Textiles
Apparel and Other Finished Products
Lumber and Timber Basic Products

Pursiture and Finished Number Products
Paper and Allied Preducts

445.6

-73.9
8.6

22,077

-94.1
0.1

796

13

-n.6

$19.0

12

-11.0

9.9

2,580
9,400

7.9

16,485

-28.4

132.9
0.7

1,430
10,703

-15.5

419.5

-20.0

-18.9

6.931
123,379

4887.6
496.4

38,448
23,189

58,061
25,936

5

-48.5
8.0

$35.1
447.9
445.2
618.7

so,
1.965

268

-18.8

615.4

380,277

3

7

Leather and Leather Products
Stone, Giny, and Glass Products
Iron and Steel and Their Products
transportation Equipment (except
Antemobiles)

Non-Ferrera Metals and Their Products
Electrical Machinery
Machinery (except Electrical)

Automobiles and Anto Equipment

Miscellaneous Manufacturing Industries
TOTAL

-

-

8

444.9

-

-

4

160.7

10

8

34

2,009

#

Natural Gas
Rubber Products

15,768

440.9

28

Printing Publishing, and Allied

Industries
Chemicals and Allied Products
Products of Petroleum, Goal and

6.5

18

-35.9

12

-

27

51

15

7.9

-20.7
6.8

-

181

TOTAL UNFILLED ORDERS REPORTED, BY INDUSTRIES

December 1939 Report
Percentage Change!

Industries
Food and Kindred Products

No. firms' December 1939
from
Reporting
6

Tobacco

Textiles

Apparel and Other Finished Products

Lumber and Timber Basic Products.

Furniture and Finished Lumber Products.
Paper and Allied Products

Printing, Publishing, and Allied
Industries
Chemicals and Allied Products
Products of Petroleum, Coal and
Natural Gas.
abber Products

Leather and Leather Products.

Stone, Clay, and Glass Products
Iron and Steel and Their Products
Transportation Equipment (except Automobiles)

24

5.2

31.8

/2.7

37.9

+5.9

4

-4.6

7

14

-7.6

17

-13.3

(19.0

11

-

6

11

8

18.8

45.4'
(123.39

42.7
48.2

(000 omitted)
6 11,514
32,319
5,009
3,881
5,322
13,790

14,193

/114.64

-5.2

40.5

10,046
475,951

+27.3"

2,822
17,770

38

9.3

90.21

18

$3.0

(233.2'

427,758
50,807
216,447
67,814
36,908
1,996

75.9

-9.4

Electrical Machinery
Machinery (except Electrical)

25

-2.5

+3.0

70.0
90.3

-15.5
-13.6

78.4

57.4

TOTAL

Orders

4.6
7.6

12

Miscellaneous Manufacturing Industries.

Unfilled

-

Non-Ferrous Metals and Their Products

Automobiles and Auto Equipment.

Total

51

14
5

273

-3.5

106.3 1,395,329

CONFIDENTIAL

182

TOTAL INVENTORIES REPORTED. BY INDUSTRIES

December 1939 Report

No. firms:
Industries

Percentage Change:
December 1939

Total

from

Inventories

:Reporting:

tNov.1939:Dec.19388

(000 omitted)
Food and Kindred Products
Tobacco

Textiles

Apparel and Other Finished Products
Lumber and Timber Basic Products
Furniture and Finished Lumber Products
Paper and Allied Products

40
9

44
7

3.7
0.4
1.7
+14.0

2.6

8 364,219

+13.7
+43.1

2.3

5.4

236,226
105,634
8,581
12,753

6.0
4.3

+ 9.6
3.2

26,288
53,880

6.2
4.8

+ 8.8

4,910
123,530

0.5
9.4
7.9

3.2

+

+

10

+

22

+

34

Printing, Publishing, and Allied
Industries
Chemicals and Allied Products
Products of Petroleum, Coal and
Natural Gas

6

+

39

+

17

-

Rubber Products

15

Leather and Leather Products

14

Stone, Clay, and Glass Products
Iron and Steel and Their Products
Transportation Equipment (except

18

+

60

+

20

+

Nonferrous Metals and Their Products

17

+

Electrical Machinery
Machinery (except Electrical)

36

+

69

+

Automobiles and Auto Equipment

38

Miscellaneous Manufacturing Industries

12

527

Automobiles)

TOTAL

6.6
0.6

-1.0

0.1
+11.6
8.2
7.3

+11.7

5.4
3.0

+44.2

5.2
2.7
0.9

+1.3

-1.8

218,278
68,994
75,520
45,836
680,934
77,183
78,757

+ 3.7

+17.4
+12.5

139,688
117,171
388,999
15,259

+ 2.2

+ 7.5

2,842,640

+

+ 7.3

183

Inventory Values and Trends, 1935-39 (Dun & Bredstreets and U. 5. Department of Commerce).

Note.--Value of inventories (Dun & Bredstreets series). for January 1, 1940 was estimated by the Department of
commerce upon the basis of changes is sample date during the last half of 1939. The monthly Index of total
inventories in terms of January 1, 1936 dollars is based upon the Dun & Bredstreets series; adjustments for
wholesale price trends, and interpolations for monthly figures have been made by the Department of Commerce.

This index also has been adjusted for seasonal variations.

PHYSICAL VOLUME OF INVENTORIES, SEASONALLY ADJUSTED

VALUE OF INVENTORIES, UNADJUSTED

JANUARY I, 1936 . 100

JANUARY I, 1936 = 100

140

140

MANUFACTURING
130
130

TOTAL

TOTAL

120
120

WHOLE-

SALING
110
110

RETAILING
100
100

90

90
JAM.I.

1935

JAN. I.

'36

JAN.I.

JAN.

'38

'37

JULY JAN.I. JULY & JAN 4
'38

'39

'39

1936

1935

1939

1938

1937

00-40-35

'40

Indexes of spot Market Daily Prices of 18 Foodstuffs and 16 Rew Industrial Commodities, August 31, 1939 reb.
ruary 7. 1940 (U. S. Department of Labor)

INDEX NUMBERS, AUG. 1939 = 100
140

130

120

FOODSTUFFS
110

RAW INDUSTRIAL. COMMODITIES
100

90

SEPT.
31

NOV.

OCT.

1939

DEC:

JAN.

FEB.

1940

00-40-38

184

Indexes of Industrial Stock Prices, Domestic Corporate Bond Prices, and Quarterly Earnings of Industrial Corporetions 1036-39 (Basic figures for stock and bond prices are from Standard Statistics Company, Inc., and
quarter . earnings data are From the Federal Reserve Bank of New York, except for the fourth quarter of 1939.
which was estimated by the U. S. Department of Commerce).

RELATIVES, 1929-31 = 100
160

140

QUARTERLY EARNINGS OF
168 INDUSTRIAL CORPORATIONS
120

100

60 DOMESTIC
CORPORATE BONDS

80

350 INDUSTRIAL STOCKS
60

40

20

1936

1937

1938

1939
00-39-342

185
FOREIGN TRADE NOTES

Italy: Prospects for the sale of American cotton were improved

at the turn of the year by increased credit facilities and
by the advancing prices and scarcity of all other varieties
of cotton. The latter has left the foreign market almost
entirely to American cotton. The scarcity of Indian cotton

was due to the larger purchases of that crop by the Japanese
and an increase in price which made it non-competitive with
American cotton. The Italian authorities have been much more

liberal in the issuance of import permits and credits for
cotton during December. The Italian mills are very busy with
war and export orders but not to supply the domostic demand.

It is reported that the Italian cotton brokers are planning

to establish trade connections with spinners in the Balkan
countries with a view to replacing the Bremen firms in the

transit trade.

Denmark: It is reported confidentially that the British offer
of increased prices for Danish bacon and butter is tied up
with a demand that the Danish sellers export on a blocked

credit system and on & balance between exports and imports.
Danish exports to Germany during September, October, and
November, showed an increase of 16 million kroner as com-

pared with the corresponding period in 1938, while exports to
England during the same period showed an increase of only

1 million kroner. Imports from Germany during the same period
showed an increase of 10 million kroner as compared with a
decrease of 18 million kroner in import from England.
Denmark has experienced difficulty in obtaining coal supplies
from England and Germany, due to the sinking of coal ships
from England and the German rail transportation difficulties.
There is a very urgent need for feedstuffs and grain.

Great Britain: The upward trend in the British price level is
indicated by the order of the Ministry of Supply control of

February 1, which fixes new maximum prices for iron and steel,

representing an increase of 3 shillings per ton for pig iron
and pound per ton for seai-finished and heavy steel finished products.

Chiles An accounting of the Chilean-German position after almost
5 years of compensation trade indicates that instead of Chile
being caught with blocked Aski marks at the outbreak of the
war, the balance is in favor of Germany.

-2-

Chile

(cont's It is reported that in connection with the

outstanding order in Germany for 16 articulated trains,
3 electric locomotives and other railway equipment, involving 10 million marks, on which Chile had paid about
1/3 on account, it has been arranged through diplomatic

negotiations with the Allies to allow the delivery of the

equipment only to the value of the advance payment. It
is also reported that the Chileen government is compiling,
at the request of the British Embassy, information in regard to the unfilled orders for Germen goods at the outbreak
of the war for which payments had already been made or for
which Chilean importers had assumed obligations. It is assumed that this is with & view to the delivery of such prewar
orders.

bureau of Foreign and Domestic Commerce
february 8, 1940

186

187

WEEKLY WHOLESALE PRICE INDEXES

(1926 = 100)

Group

Foods

All commodities other than
farm products and foods
Hides and leather products.
Textile products.

Fuel and lighting materials'

Metals and netal products
Building materials
Chemicals and drugs

House-furnishing goods
Miscellaneous
Raw materials

Semimanufactured articles
Finished products

Aug.26,

1939

1939

2.9
3.7
1.0

5.3

71.4

78.8
69.6
71.7

82.4
96.3
71.4
74.1
94.9
90.7
77.1
67.1
76.1

84.0
103.9
76.7
73.4
95.7
93.7
77.6
90.2
77.4

83.6
103.0
75.3
73.3
95.6
93.1
77.5
89.5
77.1

4.0
10.9
15.0
0.3
1.2
4.3
1.7
2.6
5.8

4.0
11.2
11.7
0.1
2.2
3.8
4.4
2.9

73.0
82.0
82.3

73.3
81.2
81.9

73.2
80.3
81.7

4.0
7.5
1.9

10.6
7.9
3.0

Sept.

Jan.

26

16

27

76.6
67.1
71.0

74.8
61.1
66.7

79.3
69.7
75.5

79.1
69.2

80.4
92.9
65.5
73.5
94.5
89.3
76.2
87.2
72.9

80.4

4

111 commodities
Farm products

Feb.4,

Aug.

Feb.

70.4
74.7
80.2

92.6
67.4
73.2
93.5
89.7
74.2
87.0
73.1
66.2
74.4

79.3

Percent increase
Feb, 3 .1940 from

1940

1939

Feb.
3

Source: U. 8. Department of Labor, Bureau of Labor Statistics.

13.9
7.5

5.5

188

SELECTED COMMODITY PRICE SERIES

1939

Unit

" per 1b.
do
do

straits, N.Y.
er, plantation, N.Y.
light native cows, Chicago.
13-15 denier, 78% aeriplane,

45
15

do

per 1b.
per 1b.

middling, av. 10 markets

cloth, 60x64, 38 inches, N.Y. " per yd.

r, raw, 96 duty free, N.Y.

do

do

Accre, N.Y.

do

cash, Chicago.

onseed oil, Mar 1940 futures, N.YI
icago.

rs, beef, medium, 750-1,100
s., Chicago.

3/5
5/8

75

16 7/89

22

2.10
8.49

IS per bu.
18 per cwt.

1/2

1/4

12/82.6

3/8
5/81
3/81.5 '3/111.9

2.75
4.66

2.92
4.38

3.70
6.45

5.65
5.61

7 3/4"
7.75
7.30

5/8

6.37

'3/

1/2'3

.67

11 1/4
5.00
5.89

5.25
5.89

45 1/8
7/8

7/8

18

18

1/4

13

3.21
9.01

2.72
8.53

Feb.7

45 3/4

15

do

do

49 3/401/

Jen.31

12

12

5.50
6.66

5.05
5.14

do

e, Santos, No. 4,
it, May 1940 futures, Chicago
good and choice, 220-240 lbs.

1b.

per

tops, Mara 1940 futures, N.Y.

1/2

10

10

do

York

11 1/4
4.85
4.84

do

prompt shipment, N.Y

Sept.13

Aug.30

3.15
10.26
1/4
99.0
2.85
5.45

3.25
10.55

,

Feb. 8

.

Commodity

electrolytic, N.Y.

1940

,

,

2/4
100.0
5

2.80
5.37

,

1/2

7 1/2
5.90
6.77

's/
1/13/ .85 3/81.96

3/8

6.12
6.93

.

,

1.98

7.90

6.88

6.13

5.40

5.38

8.75

8.38

8.68

8.88

8.50

ominal.

arch 1939 futures.
December 1939 futures.

lay 1939 futures.
logs weighing 220-250 pounds.

cest All commodities, with the exception of wool tops, cottonseed oil, hogs, and
ers, are taken from the Journal of Commerce; wool tops and cottonsoed oil are taken
the Fall Street Journal; and hoge and steers are from the U. S. Department of Agricure, Bureau of Agricultural Economics.

189

COMPOSITE PRICES OF PIG IRON, STEEL SCRAP, AND FINISHED STEEL

Pig Iron 1/

Steel Scrap 2

Finished Steel 3/

Date

(Dollars per gross ton)

(Cents per pound)

1939:

February 7
August 29
September 19
October 3
November 26

20.61
20.61
22.61
22.61
22.61

14,875
15.62
19.25
22.50
18.58

2.286
2.236
2.236
2.236
2.261

22.61
22.61

17.33
17.08

2.261
2.261

1940:

-

.

January 30
February 6
1

1 Based on average for basic iron at Valley furnace and foundry
iron at Chicago, Philadelphia, Buffalo, Valley and Southern iron
at Cincinnati.
2/ Based on No. 1 heavy melting steel quotations at Pittsburgh,
Philadelphie, and Chicago.

3 Based on steel bars, beans, tank plates, wire, rails, black pipe,
sheets and hot-rolled strip. These products represent 85 percent of the United States output.

Source: The Iron Age.

190

PRICES OF PETROLEUM PRODUCTS - IN BULK AT GULF COAST PORTS

Meter gasoline, Light fuel oil,
65 octane

Date

number 2

6

Diesel oil, Bunker oil, grade
schipes bunkers, "0", cargoes

(Dollars per barrel)

(Cents per gallon)
.

1939:

February 8
August 30
September 13

3.375 - 3.625
3.375 - 3.75
3.875 - 4.00

4.50 - 4.75
4.75 - 5.00
6.25 - 6.875

0.675 - 0.70

1.45
1.45
1.65

,

.

.

0.78 - 0.80
0.825 - 1.00

8
,

.

.

.

,

Source:

4.125
4.125

,

1.70
1.70

.

1.00 - 1.05
1.00 - 1,05

,

February 7

5.50 - 6.00
5.50 - 6.00

.

January 31

.

1940s

Platt's Oilgram.

ON

- present

191

CONFERENCE WITH UNDERSECRETARY

February 8, 1940.
11:00 a.m.

Present:

Mr. Bell

H.M.Jr:

Dan, I thought there was so much, we might
make a record, if you don't mind.

Bell:

Mr. Cotton

I don't mind. I have got a lot of stuff

here.

This is Haas' memorandum (February 7) and he

took the New York Times article on what the
President said. There was no formal statement

or anything. Here is what the President said,
in effect, and this is what Dewey said, see.
Now, the President intimated from his statement
that there was no change in the total local
and private debts and then he said that - I
mean, the total government debts, that is,
state and government, and the private debts,
he said, were much lower, and then he said
the total debts were lower.
Now, Dewey says that the total governmental

debt increased 261 billion and that is all

government, because the state and local only
went down about 130, see, but the private

debts were 17 billion less than they were
back in 132. Therefore, there has been a
net increase in the total debt of 9 billion
dollars.

H.M.Jr:

That is what Dewey says?

Bell:

That is what Dewey says, and the figures in

H.M.Jr:

What do you mean by that?

Bell:

This is gotten out by the economists in the
three A's. Dewey says the President could
have consulted this report or the Treasury
report. The only thing he could have consulted
in this report was this figure and that was we didn't take in private debts at all. Now,
there is the 148, which is 132 that Dewey
quotes, and there is the President's figure -

this A.A.A. report bear that out.

192

-2-

H.M.Jr:

Bell:

I mean, there is the total figure, which is
a difference of 9 billion, showing an increase
of that much. If the President had taken '30,
160 million, he would have shown a reduction
of 3 billion dollars. He should have taken -Well, this is Lauch Currie's fault.
I don't know whose it is. I should say that
I would let the White House answer it or the
Democratic Committee.

H.M.Jr:

This is the memorandum and Dewey's statement

and we won't do anything else unless we are

asked to.
Bell:

I wouldn't.

H.M.Jr:

I was asked at my press conference and I said,
"I am not going to make any comment on that."

Bell:

That is right. Here is Basil Harris' recomstations. I hate to do it, but I suppose
there is nothing left but to do it. He does
it on the basis of the new revenue statements
in those districts, but the real reason is

mendation for reinstating those three Customs

McKellar.

H.M.Jr:

How much is involved?

Bell:

About 70 or 80 thousand dollars in employees

down there is the main thing as far as
McKellar is concerned.

H.M.Jr:

Bell:

I guess he is up against it, isn't he?
I think so. I think he has got to do it.
It hurts to do those things.
Now, I wanted to show you a picture on the
financial situation and I think we have got
to wait a while just to see what Congress
does with this whole budget before we can
come to any definite conclusions, but --

H.M.Jr:

Excuse me just one second.

193

-3Bell:

Our Savings Bonds are coming in, of course,

pretty fast, and the only financing we contemplate in this picture is the 150 million
for, say, RFC or Commodity Credit in May,
and 500 million in June and then another
150 million for Commodity Credit or RFC,
whichever you care to have. In July, 250
million for Straus. He says he wants 200
million between July and October. We may

have to carry him for a few months. I put

200 million in September, because under this
set-up we wouldn't borrow any money in
September. As to our balances, they run down
to a billion one in June and that is almost
in accord with the budget.

H.M.Jr:

Good.

Bell:

But just taking this picture as it is and

H.M.Jr:

tying it up with the budget, plus the Government agencies outside of the budget, you get
your balances down here, see, and here you
come down to a minus. I did that to show
you what is in this picture.
That is May, '41, that is a minus?

Bell:

That is right. Now, there is not in this

picture the two items that the President had
in his budget, one, the 700 million to be
returned from the corporations and the other,

the 460 million of additional taxes. They
are trying to get rid of the additional taxes
on the Hill. I thought you would like to
know how the deficit is going to look on
December 31.

H.M.Jr:

What year?

Bell:

1940. That is 2 billion 770 that we start

out with on February 1, borrowing power, and

we add U. S. Savings Bonds, which we estimate

will be a billion one, including the future

accrual of discount, the old age reserve,
unemployment trust, retirement funds, and so
forth and new money, that is, major financing,
500 million, making it two billion eight and

194

-4then we have sources of debt decrease which

is 45 million of Treasury bills hanging over

until June and miscellaneous items and the
month-to-month debt retirement brings it down

to 2 billion 527, so that you would have a
leeway on December 31 of 243 million, exclusive
of your 460 taxes and your 700 million of

returned money.

Now, your balance on December 31, according

to this figure, would only be 500 million.
Now, that is running awfully close.

H.M.Jr:

Too close.

Bell:

I think it is nothing to worry about just yet,

but along in April and May we have really got
to get down to brass tacks on this thing.
Now, I think that if we got in a pinch we
could buy some of the stabilization fund gold
to carry us through January to get this thing
through or we could refuse to invest old age
reserve accounts, 500 million. I don't believe
you can do it on the unemployment trust, because we have to give them their interest
figures every quarter.
H.M.Jr:

How do you mean, buying stabilization gold?

Bell:

We can buy two or three or four hundred million

dollars of stabilization gold and put it in

the general fund and then when you came to
December, this 737, maybe you could retire a

H.M.Jr:

Bell:

couple of million.
Why in the hell aren't we going to get that
700 million?

I am not saying we are not, but I think pretty
soon we have got to take a stand with the
Budget that it is necessary that they do something very definite before Congress leaves
town, in case they need legislation, and we

will go to bat for it.
H.M.Jr:

The one thing that you have - did you ask
for any new money in March?

195

-5Bell:

No. We are contemplating refunding the
737 in June and the bonds. I have got a

call here I want to talk to you about.

H.M.Jr:

But no new money?

Bell:

No.

H.M.Jr:

Any new money in June?

Bell:

500 million. Our balance here gets down to
a billion one and it would be only 600 million

if you don't borrow. That just about hits the

budget balance. It may be here that you could
increase Commodity Credit to 200 and RFC to
200.

H.M.Jr:

Why don't they go through with that 700 million?

Bell:

I think they are working on it, but I think
they are a little slow. I think they have
got to move up their clock before April.
Why don't we write a letter on the 700 million?
Well, you could do that or I could get in touch
with Smith and just say it is important that

H.M.Jr:

Bell:

we have this thing settled before Congress
leaves.

H.M.Jr:

I would do that.

Bell:

I just wanted to show you that that is the
picture. We might as well discuss that
call thing before we get away from it.
There are 353 million of 3-3/8 percent bonds
to be called on June 15 and that call notice
has to be four months ahead of time, which
means it has to be released on the 13th and
go out to the banks on the 14th. That is
just a letter on the public debt as a matter
of procedure (February 8).

That is a call notice which goes out to
registered owners and all the banks and is

196

-6published in the papers all over the country.
(February 14).

This is the press release: "The Secretary indicated that it is probable that prior to the
redemption date holders of these bonds may be
offered the privilege of exchanging them for
other obligations." That is the usual thing.
This will be released on the morning of the
14th.

H.M.Jr:

I see.

Bell:

You gave me this thing from the President to
handle. Do you want me to handle that at a
Cabinet meeting sometime, just discuss it with
them and tell them what we did?

H.M.Jr:

Yes. You will be going to Cabinet tomorrow.
And I could just tell him what we did at our
meeting. If he wants it changed, we will have
to change it.
There were two things I wanted to discuss. One
was whether or not you would be willing to set
up a permanent fiscal organization within the
Treasury under the reorganization powers, if we
could set it up. You remember we talked about
our permanent thing last year and there has been
a lot of talk about a permanent Undersecretary.

Bell:

I don't think that ought to be done. I don't

think there ought to be a permanent Undersecretary.

H.M.Jr:

I mentioned it to the President and he said under
the Brownlow Plan that the Secretary and the
Undersecretary should be Presidential appointees.

Bell:

I think that is right.

H.M.Jr:

But he didn't say anything about Assistant Secre-

Bell:

tary. Evidently there is a Brownlow Plan on
this thing.
They feel that everything under the Undersecretary
ought to be Civil Service. That plan wasn't

197

-7accepted and I think there is a feeling

of the lawyers and the Budget that we
could set up in the Treasury a permanent
fiscal organization, headed by, say, a
fiscal assistant secretary, permanent

H.M.Jr:

Bell:

if you wanted to do that, and then all
the agencies under that set-up would be
Civil Service.
I am for that.

We could get rid of the political appointments in Treasury, Assistant Treasurer,
Treasurer, Registrar, Assistant Registrar.

We could bring in the men, but they haven't
been put under this.

H.M.Jr:

Why not put them in?

Bell:

I think Thompson would be in favor of that
so that you could straighten that out. You
might have to write into this order that the
people who are now holding jobs would hold
them until a change of administration, but
then they would be filled by Civil Service
employees.

H.M.Jr:

Couldn't you have that ready for me when I

Bell:

I want to work on it while you are away.
I would like Harold Graves to be used on
that, too.
This is the reorganization, handled in Larry
Barnard's place, and then in conjunction with

H.M.Jr:

Bell:

come back?

Budget people --

H.M.Jr:

Get the things fixed up and I would be delighted to see it go through and have you
head it.

Bell:

Well, I am interested, of course, in my permanent status.

198

-8H.M.Jr:

Naturally. I would be delighted to do it,
but in the matter of the set-up, I think

that Graves is so good on reorganization I
would like you to use him.

Bell:

Yes. He is a good boy. Well, I didn't want
to be in the position of taking the Mint out
from under Harold and putting it under my
organization.

H.M.Jr:

Well, ask him.

Bell:

I don't care.

H.M.Jr:

Ask him.

Bell:

O. K. I think Thompson would like to see it

H.M.Jr:

Then when I come back you will have something.

Bell:

H.M.Jr:

That is all I wanted to do, was study and consult the Bureau of the Budget while you are
away so we will be ready to shoot. We have
got a deadline of March 1.
I will be back by the 19th.

Bell:

Yes, I know you will. We have to pretty well

set up permanently.

prepared right away.

You had no chance on annuities, I take it.
H.M.Jr:

Bell:

No.

Altmeyer and Miss Perkins wanted a copy of the

memorandum.

H.M.Jr:

Give it to them.

Bell:

You have no objection?

H.M.Jr:

No.

Bell:

Some time ago I talked to you about a special
depository bond. Remember, I told you we were

199

-9having difficulty getting these banks to do
our business on social securities, particularly
unemployment trust. Some of them said that
they didn't want to pledge high premium bonds

for these accounts. They said, You probably
will tell us we have to liquidate the account

at a time when Government securities are selling
have a substantial loss, " and they have said,
"Now, if you had a depository bond which we

much below what we pay for them and then we

could buy and would be redeemed whenever the

account goes out and either at the option of

the Secretary or the bank, we could go along." "
That just suits our scheme, because whenever
we walk into a bank and say, "What are your

cost figures?" one bank will say, "We are earning
three and a half." Another bank will say, "We
are earning two and three-quarters," and we
have got to take their figures, whereas if we
had these bonds we could take two percent and
their earning on that deposit and then apply
it as what they do for us and a service and I
think it would help us out.
H.M.Jr:

Can we do this?

Bell:

Yes, this has been thought over for months. It
has gone over the legal staff and --

H.M.Jr:

Well, would they deal in them?

Bell:

No, they would be registered in the name of the
bank, held by the Treasurer of the United States
and not transferable.

H.M.Jr:

What is the matter with them?

Bell:

I think it is the thing to do.

H.M.Jr:

Do we have to get legislation?

Bell:

No, we have got plenty of authority.
That is the letter to the President. (February 8)

The limit would be 75 million. I think it

200

- 10 would enable us not only to get deposits

but also to qualify them for doing the
financial agency business without a deposit.

H.M.Jr:

I see.

Bell:

Now, there is the press release (See attached copy).
I don't know whether you want to - the
lawyers have all been over it.

Now, this is in response to the Senate
Resolution 150. I just brought these in
to show you. You see, there would be a
book like that on each agency, Federal
Land Banks, and the contents of this book
is uniform for every agency, history and
development, financial policies, accounting,
auditing, collections and disbursing, sources
and uses of funds obtained from the Treasury,
inter-agency relationships and financial
operation. Each book contains that content
of each agency. Then the second book contains all the financial data for a period
of ten years, if they go back that far, and
they are all as nearly uniform as we could
make them and then Book 1 will have this
letter in it from you, which is 23 pages
long, plus a consolidated - Book 2 will be
a consolidation of all of these statements.
H.M.Jr:

Do I sign this?

Bell:

Yes. There isn't anything in this letter,

except we are suggesting that the Comptroller
General audit these accounts and that he be
authorized to go outside and hire public
accountants, doing it on a commercial basis,
furnish us a copy of the audit so that we
can make a financial review, and call atten-

tion to the fact that the President issued
an executive order in 1934, I think it was,
directing all of these accounts to be audited
by the Comptroller General and further, that
he directed them to submit the reports to us,
which we report in a consolidated statement
once a month, and also that he recommended

201

- 11 to Congress the Commodity Credit and then

next year followed it up with the recommendation that all the others be on that
basis. That is the only thing in there
that the departments might get peeved at
the Treasury about, but I think it is a
darned good recommendation.

H.M.Jr:

I do, too.

Bell:

Cochran - the Committee on Expenditures requested a statement from you on the comments
and recommendations contained in the annual

report of the Comptroller General of the
United States on the subject of accounting
and accountability. We have written this
10-page report and there are some little
caustic remarks in it, but I think maybe
sometimes you have got to be that way.

H.M.Jr:

Well, I will take it.

Bell:

Well, the Comptroller General said that - criticized Congress for granting relief to the
disbursing officers. He says the disbursing
officers are paid for their responsibility and
ought to be held liable for their money. Allen
gets $7500 and disbursed 6g million.

H.M.Jr:

And you came to his defense?

Bell:

Yes, and all the other disbursing officers that
disbursed millions of dollars. I don't know
whether you saw this about the Post Dispatch.
That is Stewart McDonald's pet project in
St. Louis and the insurance company had to

foreclose. There is all of that stuff. It

says Uncle Sam holds the bag. We had to issue
debentures to the insurance company. It is

H.M.Jr:

a million and a half dollar project.
I knew we had a lot of criticism about that

Bell:

Well, it is in our hands.

thing when they first wanted to make it.

202

- 12 H.M.Jr:

What was the matter with it?

Bell:

Apparently it didn't pay. It is a big apart-

H.M.Jr:

When they are guaranteeing, whether it is
homes or loans or business men, they ought
to keep them down to $25,000. Then if one
goes bust, another may not.
This guarantee thing has to be handled very
carefully.

Bell:
H.M.Jr:

Bell:

ment house project out in a section of the
city where people who have the money to pay
the rent would not live, so Gene Sloan tells
me. He said it was the laughing stock of
the community out there. I just thought you
would be interested in it.

Is that all?
Yes, that is all I have got. I have gotten

through sooner than I expected. I know what
Cotton wants.

H.M.Jr:

What does he want?

Bell:

Well, he thinks maybe that - we had a success
of making a suggestion the other day for a
temporary arrangement with Colombia. You
made that suggestion and they grabbed it. Now,
both sides here are afraid to make suggestions

H.M.Jr:

because they are afraid the other one will try
to trim it down, particularly Traphagen is
willing to compromise a little but he isn't
willing to put it forward because he said,
"If I do, they will just do what they did before, they will trim it. They were up to
two million one time and I was down to a
million eight." Now, if we could just put
down on paper some suggestions and say, "Well
now, here is __"
All right. Joe Cotton wanted me to put the

Bell:

No, I wouldn't do that.

pressure on Colombia.

203

- 13 H.M.Jr:

But that is what he wanted me to do. Instead of that, I put the pressure on the

Bondholders' Committee and we got results.

Joe and I are just a hundred percent apart

Bell:

on this thing.
Supposing we just said we had a little
success with this other suggestion and,
"Here is a suggestion if you are about to
break up you can take for what it is worth.
If it has any merit, the two of you can get
together on it."

H.M.Jr:

I don't even know what the suggestion is.

Bell:

I don't either, but it is some two million
dollars and then there is the limitation
on it that if the exports fall below, say,
1939, why, they won't have to pay any more
than a certain amount.

H.M.Jr:

Dan, without --

Bell:

I would hate to see this thing break up.
If that was a psychological success, it was
just nip and tuck and Jesse Jones was tired

H.M.Jr:

and Welles was anxious for a success and
Traphagen wanted it and I just happened to

hit it when the iron was hot and everything
melted. I might do it again and I might be
unlucky.

(Mr. Cotton entered the conference)
Bell:

It was just a piece of Morgenthau luck.
Well, it went very well and I thought they
were very pleased to get it.

Cotton:

Mr. Traphagen called me yesterday, day be-

H.M.Jr:

fore, I guess it was and I talked to Mr. Bell
a little about it. If you will remember,

he wrote me a letter setting forth the pro-

position for a permanent settlement he thought

he could get through the Council. Since this

204

- 14 temporary agreement was agreed to, he put

it up to the Council and said he could get
it through. I thought you might want to
consider it. He says that he is unwilling
to put it forward, because he feels that he
will be treaded on. He thinks that has

happened before, but if the Colombians would

put it up, he would accept it and could
guarantee getting it through. I told him I
would tell you about it.

H.M.Jr:

What is the proposal?

Cotton:

Well, this summarizes it (handing proposal
to Secretary).

H.M.Jr:

Well, it is just a matter of physical time.

I can't sit down with these gentlemen between
now and 5:00 o'clock. And, as I was saying

to Bell, I think we had a piece of luck the
other day that everybody just happened to be
psychologically ready to state that they wanted
to settle and it was a piece of luck, but without seeing these people face to face, I wouldn't
want to - I wouldn't know what would happen.

Bell:

Does Laylin know any part of this?

Cotton:

No, not unless Traphagen told him. I talked
with Larry Duggan a little bit about it. He
was over here one day. I explained it to him
and I think he hoped that possibly something
might be done with it. I am not very optimistic,
because I think they are still pretty far apart,
but this is at least something the Council would
accept. Now, whether it would be the time to

use it, or whether it can be used, it is hard

to tell.

H.M.Jr:

What do you think, Dan? Whatever is going to
be done, you are going to have to do it in
the next ten days.

Bell:

Well, I think that this 4 percent rate in
15 years might be a stumbling block.

205

- 15 Cotton:

I told him I didn't think he could get this

settlement on that interest rate the way
things were going and he said well, it was
as far as he could go, that they would prefer to stand on the temporary settlement,
that they would not cut this down. I think
he varied the sinking fund provision a little

bit, but not on the interest. He is a pretty
straight fellow, I think. That is his last

word.

Well, perhaps you might want to - I just
showed it to Duggan, I mean. It is not in
the possession of the State Department or
Jones or anybody else.

Bell:

Well, it might be that if you have no objection that if they ask for a meeting that

we might get together with Jones and Welles
beforehand and just discuss as to how a thing

like this might be handled.

H.M.Jr:

I will leave it to you.

Bell:

If we think the time is good or we have
another psychological situation as you referred to, maybe we can put it forward as
just a suggestion for consideration rather
than seeing the negotiations break down.
Right. I would suggest that when you get
this note from Traphagen - it seemed to me
the Ambassador's letter to you was not quite
complete in the sense of he didn't mention
when the interest would be paid. You said
it ought to be paid half on the 15th. He
doesn't say that in his letter and also he
doesn't say anything about the negotiations
to go forward on the guaranteed debt, either,
which were specific enough. So I think when
Traphagen writes us, in a transmitting letter,
or something, we might say issues have been
called to our attention which were agreed to.

Cotton:

H.M.Jr:

It is a good point.

206

- 16 Cotton:

All right.

H.M.Jr:

Thank you.

Bell:

He doesn't say anything about it in his
letter, does he, Traphagen?

Cotton:

Has the Traphagen letter come in?

H.M.Jr:

I hadn't seen it.

Bell:

Mrs. Klotz just handed it to me.

H.M.Jr:

I see.

Cotton:

Well, he doesn't mention it, either, does he?

Bell:

No.

H.M.Jr:

Turbay said he would do that. When Welles

calls me up today on this thing, I will
remind him to remind Turbay it is to be the
15th.

207

TREASURY DEPARTMENT
INTER OFFICE COMMUNICATION

DATE February 7, 1940
TO

FROM

Mr. D. W. Bell

Mr. Haas BA

Subject: Statements of the President and of Mr. Thomas Dewey
with Respect to Debts

No text is available of the President's statement of

Monday, February 5, with respect to the movements of public

and private debts since 1932. We are relying in this memorandum, therefore, upon the account of the President's remarks appearing in the New York Times for Tuesday, February 6.
The text of Mr. Dewey's retort is quoted in the New York
Herald Tribune for Wednesday, February 7.

Mr. Dewey states that he obtained his figures from a
report by the Agricultural Adjustment Administration, Division of Program Planning, Agricultural-Industrial Relations
Section. A copy of this report is attached to this memorandum. As will be seen from the following table comparing the
statements of the President and of Mr. Dewey with the figures
in the AAA report, Mr. Dewey did follow it very carefully,
deviating only to round figures.
Changes in Public and Private Debts Since 1932
The

President

Dewey

AAA

:

(In millions of dollars)
Federal debt

(including agencies)
State and local debt
Total Government debt

Private debt
Total debt
No figure given.

*

-

+ 26,619

130 -

130

No change + 26,500 + 26,489
Much lower - 17,500 - 17,582
Lower

+ 9,000 + 8,907

Mr. D. W. Bell - 2

208

It will be observed, on the face of the comparison, that
the alleged $9 billions discrepancy is really a discrepancy of
at least that amount, plus the amount of the decrease which the
President may have believed to have taken place in the total
public and private debt since 1932. According to both Dewey
and the AAA report, this total rose about $9 billions during
the period under consideration.

The figures in the AAA report are in substantial agreement with those of the Treasury with respect to Federal and
State and local debts. They are taken from the tables on taxexempt securities in the annual reports of the Secretary of
the Treasury, and are on a gross basis. In several places
the AAA report uses preliminary figures or estimates for which
better figures are now available but none of these make any
substantive difference. A comparison of the AAA figures with
the published Treasury figures is contained in the appendix to
this memorandum.

The figures with respect to private debt are, of course,
subject to a wide margin of error and do not purport to be inclusive of all such debts. They appear to have been drawn from

standard sources, however, and there seems to be no a priori
reason why they should be challenged.

209

APPENDIX

Comparison of Public Debt Statistics Presented
by AAA and in the Treasury Annual Report for 1939

(Millions of dollars)
Treas-

:

ury 1

:
:

AAA

Excess (+), or

deficiency (-)

of AAA figures

U. S. direct debt
June 30, 1932
June 30, 1939

19,161
39,886

19,162
39,892

2,130
8,024

2,130
7,988

+ 36

June 30, 1932
June 30, 1939

19,330
19,200

19,330
19,626

- 426

Total Governmental debt
June 30, 1932
June 30, 1939

40,621
67,110

40,622
67,506

-

1

-

6

Debt of Federal instrumen-

talities

June 30, 1932
June 30, 1939

State and local debt

Treasury Department, Division of Research and

Statistics.

-1

- 396

February 7, 1940.

1 Gross amounts outstanding as shown in tables on tax-exempt securities, pp. 508-12, Annual Report of the Secretary of the
Treasury for 1939.