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Schreder:
Purely Territic
FIELD HIGH
STEELS
ne. 11- Influence of
Flr. 13- Surface
Mo on surface decarbur-
decarturized high speed steel
isation of a 15 C steel
11.
with 18% W. 45 Cr and 1.1ST
on annealing in wet Hg.
71g. 12-
198
LOW
Dimensions of Sample 30 - (1.18 in)
square section: 10 in) long.
Holding 1 min
Holding 2 at
71g. 14 Sensitivity to
overheating of differently
716.14
alloyed high speed steels
according to fracture.
SEU
Feed. 1.4 m Depth of Chip-
5.0 -.
mis.
with
Cutting Speed 13 m.
Material Out- Cr-St Steel
tensile strength of 100 kg
Ansealing at 550 "C:
LICENCE
Flg. 16- Effect of hardening temperature upon
Fig. 16-
tool life of low-alley
high speed steel with
www.UST
Quanching Temperature
3.25 Mo and 2.5% v.
1300* 04
-
Feed- 1.4 - Depth
Chin-
5.0
but- Cr-31 Steel
Strength
Fig. 17- Variation of
tool life due to
ing with differently
100
alloyed high speed steels
185 W, 1.1% T
Fig. 12- Surface decarburization of
high speed steels of different alleys
at ter eight hours annealing at
1200 "C.
x 100.
71g.17-
Annealine Hours
Holding Time at Hardening Temperature 2 Kinutes Marc. 500 Dia
Flg.15 Phenomena of Incipient Fusion with Differently Alloyed Speed Steels
LOW
Life
Tool
IN
IMPORTED
sins
Tungsten
Molybdenum
Vanadium
Clearance
Section
No
angle
Front
Life 15 min.
Setting
Fig.
"right-hand"
Fig. 3 Ratio of tungsten content to
roughing used for cutting
vanedium content in high speed steel
experiments
for the same cutting efficiency
Material Cat- Cr-31 steel with
Tensile Strength of 100 kg/m
Depth of Chip
1.0 Cutting Speed- 40m/nta.
Outting Speed- 45 meters/sta.
Smooth Shaft
45.0
Influence of variations of tungsten
Smooth Shaft
and molybdenum content upon the cutting efficiency
of high speed steels with chrone content of 45.
Slotted Staff
Slotted Shaft
Slotted
in
us
Cutting Speed in meters/min.
5
5.44
a
LA
an
am
as
4.7
10,1
U
ILT
26,4
LI
24
L
LT
S
5,14
Fis. 6- Comparison of sensitivity of
differently alloyed high speed steels
Fig. 4 Dependence of tool life of two
differently alloyed high speed steels
upon chromium content
50
scale
0.15%
into
steel
smealing at 1200 "C (2192 "F) for
eight oxidising atmosphere
interruptions is cutting.
cutting speed with impact-like stresses.
mmill
surupon
to stresses resulting from
Fig. 5- Tool life function of
1.23
Fig.
Alloyed
High
Sealing
Losses
Jointly Exposed to Annealing Oxidising Atnosphere.
71g.10
function
amealing
Scaling
of
Mo
Scheil and Kimit.
of
steels
different
the
his
for
hours
No. 505.
200
RECENT DEVELOPMENTS IN THE FIELD OF HIGH SPEED STEELS
LOW IN IMPORTED ALLOYING ELEMENTS
By E. Houdremont and H. Schrader
[Translated - TECHNISCHE MITTEILUNGEN KRUPP, V. 5, pp. 227-39, 1937]
Synopsis:
History of high speed steels
with reduced contents of
alloying elements not available within the country.
Best ways of testing the
quality of high speed steels.
Studies of new high speed
steels low in imported alloy-
ing elements and containing
various amounts of 3, Mo, and V.
Cutting efficiency as a function
of the alloy in roughing.- W-V
steels; Mo high speed steels;
influence of Cr content.
Toughness of the new high speed
steels and their cutting efficiency in planing.
Influence of alloy upon the processing of the new steels.Scaling and decarburization;
sensitivity to overheating in
hardening and sensitivity in
annealing.
201
-2-
The early development of the high speed steels, at the turn
of the century, took place along strictly empirical lines. The knowledge
of the effect of the several alloying elements in steel alloys, at that
time, was extremely fragmentary. In the course of almost three decades,
the further development, also, was primarily empirical; in addition
to improvements of the alloy, it brought a better understanding of the
relations between heat treatment, alloy, and efficiency. It has only
been in recent years that the specific effect of the various alloying
elements has been studied in greater detail. In this connection, the
behavior of the carbide-forming elements has furnished a plausible explanation of the increased cutting efficiency of high speed steels,
(1)
It was found
their retention of hardness and their red hardness.
that almost all of the carbide forming alloying elements, among which
we find, above all, molybdenum, chromium, tungsten and vanadium, entail
an increase in the cutting efficiency. In this connection, we shall
disregard the element of cobalt which practically affects only
the matrix. By adding only one element, it has not been possible in
any case to reach the cutting efficiency of the well-known high speed
steels which require multiple alloying. In part, the cause of this
lies in the fact that the retention of hardness of the martensite forming would be insufficient, in other words, the special carbides in
solution in the ground mass would again precipitate at relatively low
temperatures, a phenomenon which may be clearly seen, for instance,
(1)
(2)
with other alloying additions, such as vanadium,
with chrome steels.
it proved impossible to obtain a uniformly hardened structure, even when
quenching from very high temperatures. The hardenability of straight
tungsten steels, also, is not very good in the presence of appreciable
amounts of embedded carbides. Next to the hardenability and retention
-3-
202
of hardness. the nature and quantity of the special carbides in dispersion in the ground mass after the hardening, exerts an influence
upon the wear resistance in turning. It is therefore almost imperative
to combine a number of alloying elements so as to insure satisfactory
hardening, red hardness and resistance to wear.
A few years ago, it seemed as though the development in the
field of high speed steels had come to a certain standstill, inasmuch as
definite types of high speed steels had evolved, been accepted the
world over and become standardized, if not officially, then certainly
inofficially, in view of the universal uniformity of the respective
requirements. As examples, the alloys 18/4/1, 20/4/1.5, and 14/4/2.5
may be mentioned; the respective numbers relate to tungsten, chrome,
and vanadium, in the same sequence. This development has brought the
element tungsten in the foreground, and indeed, up to very recent years,
tungsten has been playing the most important part in the manufacture
of high speed steels. The desire to reduce imports of foreign metals,
which not only Germany, but many other countries as well are compelled
to obtain from abroad, again and again had led to attempts at replacing
the tungsten by other alloying elements. Although we had special
reasons in this country to study this problem of substitution, the
present difficulties in securing tungsten supplies, due to the war in
China, have opened the eyes of the whole world to the urgency of this
question.
One of the ways leading to savings in tungsten, which has
been tried time and again, i.e. the substitution of molybdenum for
tungsten, was exhaustively studied during the last war. The tendency
to replace tungsten by the "related" molybdenum is as old as the high
speed
White(3)
steelsand
themselves.
Taylor have already recognized
203
-4-
this possibility and suggested as a suitable ratio, 2 parts of Mo
to one part of tungsten.
When during the world war, Germany was cut off from the
tungsten supplies of China, molybdenum containing high speed steels
were developed at a great many plants, and also used in current manu-
facture. A result of this development work are the patente dating back
to these years, which have been reviewed in connection with the article
(4)
by H. Pohl, H. Pollack, and R. Scherer on experiments with high speed
steels low in tungsten and high in molybdenum. Later on, the problem
of substituting molybdenum for tungsten was once more taken up in the
United States, inasmuch as there are only small deposits of tungsten
ore, but ample deposits of molybdenum ore available in that country.
(5)
In the paper by Emmons, a steel with 8% Mo, 2% W, 4% Cr and 1% V has
been designated as especially suitable. The present authors have been
told that this steel has been widely tested and introduced, in the
(4)
United States, under the name Mo-MAX. According to Scherer, it was
found to be equivalent in turning to the tungsten high speed steel
18/4/1, in regard to its cutting capacity, but perceptibly inferior
to the high speed steel with 14/4/2.5.
Another possibility of saving in alloying elements consists
in a reduction of the tungsten content. The first step in this direction
was taken about ten years ago, when a steel with 12-14% IN and more than
1.8% V was introduced in the place of the 20-22% 3, 1.5% V steel. In
general, these two steels have the same cutting capacity. Steels with
higher tungsten contents, about 25-28%, do not entail any improvements
(6)
Their application, in many cases,
in efficiency over the 22% W steel.
is due to the erroneous assumption that the value of a high speed steel
is due to its content in alloying constituents, while it is being
204
-5-
recognized more and more that optimum tool lives may be obtained with
low alloy contents balanced as favorably as possible. When viewed from
this standpoint, recent developments in the field of high speed steels
seem to emphasize the fact that even tungsten steels with 18% V must
be regarded as having excessively high alloying contents. After the preliminary step consisting in reducing the tungsten content to 14%, while
at the same time raising the vanadium content to 2.5% another step in
this direction has recently been taken in that it has been found that
steels with 8-10% N and 1%(7)
V are equivalent, in regard to cutting efficiency, to the 18/4/1 steel.
The possibility of effecting such a reduction 18 primarily
due to the greater knowledge of the specific effect of vanadium which
element is of decisive importance in all of these steels.
Best Ways of Evaluating the Quality of a High Speed Steel.
In evaluating high speed steel alloys, it is not permissible
to content oneself with the turning capacity. Even to-day, it is difficult to obtain a definite idea of the behavior of a high speed steel
in practice on the basis of mere test-stand results. At the laboratory, it will always be necessary to confine oneself to single turning
tests, possibly also drilling tests, to secure information on such basic
characteristics of a steel as retention of hardness, red hardness, and
resistance to wear. A definite differentiation, however, of the several
alloys is possible only on the basis of a rather wide practical application inasmuch as the work to be performed by a high speed tool in milling
and drilling is different from simple turning; moreover, there are differences even between roughing and finishing, for lathe tools. For
practical use in the shop, the toughness of the hardened high speed steel
205
-6-
is often important inasmuch with low toughness, impact-like effects
may lead to premature failure of the tools. Last but not least, it
is not only the viewpoints relating to the efficiency of the material
at the shop, which are important, but also those characteristics which
affect the general process of manufacture. A high speed steel alloy which
yields extraordinary values in regard to cutting efficiency, but which
causes much trouble in melting, forging, rolling, or hardening, thus
entailing unavoidable high waste in its manufacture, will necessarily
be used only for a highly restricted range of applications.
STUDIES OF NEW HIGH SPEED STEELS LOW IN IMPORTED ALLOYING ELEMENTS.
Cutting Efficiency as a Function of Alloy in Roughing.
Since its fundamental work on the effect of vanadium and
carbide-forming elements in steel alloys, it has been one research
project with the Fried. Krupp A.G. in Essen, to shed light on the extent to which the alloy content of high speed steels may either be
reduced or substituted without unduly lowering the efficiency and other
characteristics. Although our researches have not been completed as
yet, we do believe it advisable to report here on the results obtained
up to the present to encourage further investigations and at the same
time hasten the introduction of high speed steels with low alloy content in the interest of our national economy.
Of the alloys studied, we have selected those which are best
able to give a clear idea of the effect of variations of the alloying
additions and the possibilities of cutting down their percentages.
In Fig. 1, these selected steels have been assembled. In the upper part
of the diagram, the composition is indicated. The chromium content of
all of the alloys has been maintained at 4%. In the lower part of the
206
-7-
diagram, the tool lives for two different cutting speeds have been
entered. When determining these lives, "right" roughing tools of the
type shown in Fig. 2 were used; these tools were made from the materials
indicated at the left hand side of Fig. 1 and used on quench-tempered
Cr-N1 steel having a tensile strength of 142,200 1be/in2 (100 kg/mm2,
with a feed of 1.4 mm. (.055 in.) and a depth of chip of 5 mm. (.196").
Tungsten-Vanadium Steels.
In the introduction to this paper, the developments leading
to a reduction of the tungsten content and a compensation by an increased
vanadium content, with tungsten high speed steels, has already been
described. Steels 1-4, in Fig. 1, represent the high speed steels which
have been customarily used during the past ten years, practically all
the world over. Their cutting efficiency is rather independent of the
tungsten content and substantially a function of the addition of vanadium,
as is proved once more by the data on the tool lives given. Steels 5 to
11 show that upon a reduction of the tungsten content to 14%, the optimum
lower alloy limit, under the conditions of cutting selected, has by no
means been reached. with the same vanadium content, and without the
slightest impairment of the cutting efficiency, a reduction to 10% W
is possible; this will be evident from a comparison of Steel 6 (10%)
with Steel 4 (14% W), and also of Steel 7 (10%) with Steel 2 (18%)
with still lower tungsten content, i.e. 7.7% it 18 possible to maintain
a cutting efficiency equivalent to that of Steel 4, provided the vanadium
content is raised to 4.7% and the carbon content is euitably increased
in the manner illustrated by Steel 8. A decrease of efficiency is observed only upon a further lowering of the tungsten content, down to
3.6% W, although steels of this content, when containing greater vanadium
additions (Steels 10 and 11), are still able to show the same cutting
-8-
207
efficiency as the high tungsten, low vanadium steel 3.
Ever since the introduction of alloy steels, attempts have
been made again and again, to compare the value of one alloying element
with that of another and, if possible, to establish numerical relations.
The ratio of 2 to 1 for tungsten and molybdenum has already mentioned.
For the purpose of substituting vanadium for tungsten, such an attempt
has also been made;
(8) the result was a rectilinear relationship between
the tungsten and vanadium contents (Fig. 3). A warning has already been
(9)
sounded elsewhere, by one of the present authors, against the estab-
lishment of such "relationships". The effect of the various alloying
elements is too complicated, indeed, to be forced into such simple
rules of thumb. This is also evident from the trend of the curves as
plotted in Fig.3 & relating to the compositions insuring equal cutting
efficiencies as resulting from the present researches; these curves are
far from indicating simple, continuous relationships.
Kolybdenum High Speed Steels.
The effect of a partial or complete substitution of molybdenum
for the tungsten of high speed steels may be studied with Steels 12 to
29, of Fig. 1. When compared to the standard types containing 14% W,
2.46 V (4), and 20% 1.5% V (1), it proves possible to attain an appreciable improvement of the efficiency, if about 2% Mo are added to
10% a high speed steels containing 2.5% V(14). An excessive increase
of the vanadium content, coupled with a concurrent increase of the
carbon content causes a deterioration of the cutting efficiency with
steels of this composition (Steels 13 and 12). Upon a further decrease
of the tungsten content to 6%, coupled with an addition of 4% Mo (Steels
15 and 17), the cutting efficiency of the steel with 10% , and 2% No (14)
is still equalled. On this basis, also, a pronounced rise of the
-9-
208
Tanadium content does not entail an advantage commensurate to the in-
crease in the alloy content, so that Steel 17 with 2.4% V appears to
be the most desirable in regard to economy. Any variations of the carbon
content of steel with increased vanadium content cause only a deterioration of the hardenability with lower carbon contents. Steel 17 has been
in practical use for the past two years in our own as well as in other
shops and has been found to constitute a valuable alloy with remarkable
cutting characteristics even in the form of drills. In this case, accordingly, proof of the dependability of the investigational methods
used in the development of these steels has already been adduced on the
part of the users.
Steels 18 and 19 gives an idea of the efficiency of high molybdenum high speed steels with low additions of tungsten. Occasionally,
the question has been raised as to why these alloys, which were first
used during the world war, were abandoned after the war, in spite of
their good properties and in spite of the fact that according to the
studies of the first mentioned of the present authors in the years 1923-4,
their tool life was found to be at least equal to that of the 18/4/1
alloy. The reason is to be found in the prices of tungsten and molybdenum prevailing at that time and also in the difficulties encountered
in the processing of such steels. As a result of the publication by
(10)
Emmons, these old researches on the alloys in question were resumed
both with steels of our own production and with original steels secured
in the finished condition from the United States. Our re-evaluation
of the cutting efficiency of such alloys may be seen from the tool lives
of Steels 18 and 19, as contained in Fig. 1. The 8$ Mo, 2% 7, 1.2$ V
steel, corresponding to the American No-MAX steel, possesses roughly
the same cutting efficiency as Steel 1; this is a confirmation of the
-10-
209
earlier experiments. An increase of the molybdenum content to 12%
proved without effect which 16 in contrast with the statement by
Emmons.
Systematic investigations on the influence of molybdenum on
(11)
made it quite probable to obtain high cutting
efficiencies when further lowering the alloying elements, below the
limits known at the present. The effect of the alloying element molyb-
plain carbon steels
denum may be seen from the data on Steels 20 to 29, as given in Fig. 1,
in the presence of chrome, vanadium, and also small additions of tungsten
(on the basis of 4% Cr). Accordingly, it is possible to secure remarkable
cutting efficiencies even upon reductions of the tungsten and molybdenum
contents exceeding all limits, as known up to the present; these
cutting efficiency values are, in part, the same as those of the tungsten
high speed steels as used at the present, while they are sometimes even
slightly superior. With the 5% V steels, the ability to hold the cutting
power increased with the molybdenum content, up to about 5% No. An increase beyond this value, up to about 7% Mo, does not bring any substan-
tial improvement. with the steels containing 3.2% Mo and different
vanadium contents, the maximum value of the cutting efficiency lies at
2.5% V, in which connection a carbon content of 1% appears to be pre(12)
ferable to one of 0.8%
A steel of this analysis constitutes a high
grade high speed steel with the best possible utilization of the alloy;
the manufacture of this steel requires little foreign currency inasmuch
as the cost of molybdenum is only a fraction of that of tungsten (in
foreign currency as required for their purchase); on the other hand,
our requirements in vanadium will soon be completely met by domestic
production. By small quantities of tungsten added, with such Mo-V
steels containing 3.2% Mo, no appreciable improvement 16 obtained with
-11-
210
(Steel 21), while 3% W additions (Steel 20) insure a considerable
increase of the cutting efficiency. Steel 20 attains the best cutting
efficiency of all of the steel alloys as compared in the present study,
under the cutting conditions selected. Even with the tungsten-free
steels containing the minimum molybdenum content of 2.4% we still have
a cutting efficiency which approximates that of the Steel 2 containing
18% I and 1% V. The lower alloying limit, depending on the cutting efficiency required, may thus be lowered still further.
Influence of the Chrome Content.
From the standpoint of alloying, the problem of a substitution
of the chromium contained in high speed steels, is less important inasmuch as chromium as an alloying element, is less expensive than tungsten
and molybdenum and hence, requires less foreign exchange. The effect
of chromium on high speed steels is probably not entirely known as yet.
The retention of hardness shown by chrome steels is lower than, for in-
stance, that of the vanadium steels. It is the general tendency to
credit the chrome content primarily with promoting a good hardenability
i.e. insuring a uniformly martensitic condition. Whether or not
chromium plays also a part in the formation of carbides, cannot be
stated quite definitely as yet. To insure a sufficient hardenability,
one could think of a partial substitution of the chromium by manganese.
with molybdenum high speed steels, it would be possible to forego, in
part, the hardening effect of the chrome additions inasmuch as the molyb(13)
denum contents
could act still more effectively in this sense. Both
with a tungsten steel containing 14% W, and 4% V. and with a molybdenum
steel having suitable vanadium contents (10.5% $ and 2.2% No - Fig. 4),
it could be found that the cutting effect showed a steady decrease as
the chrome contents were lowered. This tendency, with the tungsten steel,
-12-
211
could not be offset by increasing the manganese content to 1.5% Fig. 4
right-hand side, shows that with the molybdenum-bearing steel, the influence of the chromium content is a function of the hardening temperature, inasmuch as a progressive increase of the cutting efficiency up to
4.4% Or could be observed only with a very high hardening temperature
(1320 °C = 2408 °F), while this is not the case with the low temperature
of 1280 °C (2336 °F) where, with the highest chromium content, a decrease
in efficiency was observed. Although this appears to point to variations
in the solubility of the carbides due to chromium which variations affect the hardening, a complete understanding of this effect of the
chromium is possible only after further investigations. With the tungsten
free molybdenum high speed steels, for instance, those with 3.2% Mo,
the comparatively high cutting efficiency 1s lost as soon as the chrome
addition is omitted. It appears to be advisable, for these reasons,
to maintain the present, quite moderate additions of 3 to 4.5% Cr.
TOUGHNESS OF THE NEW HIGH SPEED STEELS AND THEIR CUTTING EFFICIENCY
IN PLANING OR DRESSING.
At the beginning, it has been pointed out that in addition to
the retention of hardness, red hardness, and wear resistance, the toughness of high speed steels may be important for their satisfactory performance under conditions of practice. As early as when changing from
the 22% W high speed steel to the 14/3, 2.5% T type, complaints were
received from certain quarters about a drop in toughness of the new
steel lower in tungsten, and up to this day, the high tungsten high speed
steel is liked for its special toughness; and given preference in use for
tools with which a high degree of toughness is important, for instance,
stay bolts. The toughness of a hardened tool steel cannot be readily
-13-
212
tested. During the past years, attempts have been made in the United
which
States at determining the toughness with an impact torsion test (14)
method has also been used in our study of the new high speed steels. To
duplicate the impact-like stresses occuring during turning, it accessed
to be a more suitable method in the evaluation of high speed tools
to use shafts which were provided with slots, 40 mm. (1.57 in.) wide and
arranged at distances of 90 °. It was thus found that the shortening
of the tool life due to repetitive impacts resulting from interructions
when passing over the slots is dependent on the cutting speed imasmuch
as with higher speeds, the force of impact becomes greater. Feed and
depth of chip were adjusted so that in the turning of a smooth shaft
without slots, a tool life as similar as possible was obtained until
blunting. When comparing a tungsten high-speed steel with 18% I and 15
with a low alloy molybdenum type (3.2% No. 4.7% v), it was found that
with low cutting velocities such as applied in roughing, the tool lives
did not differ considerably from those obtainable in the turning of a
smooth shaft. Under these conditions, consequently, practically no differences in toughness make themselves felt. with increasing rates of
cutting, however, a greater and greater difference was observed in which
connection the lower toughness of the molybdenum steel resulted in a
pronounced deterioration of the tool life (Fig. 5). Under definite,
impact-like service stresses, therefore, the efficiency of the molybdenum steel which per se possesses a higher ability to hold its cutting
power, may drop below that of the 18/4/1 steel. The fact should be
stressed that the tungsten-free molybdenum steel retains its high efficiency with increased cutting speeds also, provided the latter carrespond to so-called planing or dressing stresses, 1.e. do not entail
appreciable impact effects. It can be rightly claimed that the insect
-14213
stresses as applied in the present experiments may be regarded as
definitely exaggerated. At any rate, however, this method of testing
is preferable to an impact torsion test inasmuch as it approximates
more closely actual conditions of service. At the same time, it provides
at least a clue as to certain, however rare, cases of similar impact
stresses for which suitable steels are to be selected.
The definite differentiation which proved possible in regard
to toughness when turning slotted shafts at high velocities, was put to
use': in that, under equal conditions of turning. a considerable number of
the different alloy steels studied were appraised as to their sensitivity to impact-like stresses. As a comparison material, the 21% 3
steel, known for its toughness, was included in the experiments. Then
evaluating the toughness according to this method, either by the difference in the tool life with a slotted as against a smooth shaft, or
the percentage ratio of these values, as shown in Fig. 6. the 18% 7.
.15 V high speed stegl appears to be equivalent to the comparison
steel, while the 14% W, 2.4% V steel proved appreciably inferior to the
high tungsten steel. The steel with 10% I and 1.26 V which in regard
to roughing was found to be almost equivalent to the 18% 7, 1.1% V steel,
shows a better efficiency in planing; on the other hand, its sensitivity
to impact-like stresses in turning is higher. For this reason, its
efficiency drops to the level of the somewhat brittler steel with 14$ $
and 2.4% y whose behavior is somewhat inferior under these conditions of
stress. The molybdenum-containing steels are more brittle than the
14% 7, 2.4% V steel; this 1e true of the American steel No-MAX as well
as of the 5.5% W, 4.5% No, and a low alloy No-V steel. The decrease,
however, is smaller than for instance. that of the 14% steel as compared to the high tungsten steel with 18-21% W. The differences among
-15-
214
the molybdenum containing steels were not very great. A 10% Co high
speed steel which was also included in the respective experiments, proved
to be somewhat tougher than the respective Co-free type; its performance
however, remained inferior to that of the high tungsten steels. Inasmuch as with the 14% W, 2.4% V steel, in spite of a perceptibly lower tough-
ness when compared with the high tungsten types, its practical suitability
for almost all applications has been definitely established in years of
practical use, the molybdenum-bearing steels which are but little inferior
to the 14% W, 2.4% V type, cannot be regarded as unduly brittle. Our
observations, therefore, are primarily intended as emphasizing the
desirability of taking special measures for a successful application
of the new steels in providing favorable, 1.e. smooth conditions of
working by the use of suitable tool shapes and by extending special
care to the maintenance of the machine tools.
INFLUENCE OF ALLOY UPON MAKING AND WORKING.
According to our practical experience, no special difficulties
are to be anticipated in the manufacture of these low alloy high speed
steels, at the steel plant. In forging, the forming capacity of the
alloy is satisfactory, providing a forging temperature of 1100 °C
is
(2012 °F) which 18 conducive to brittleness, is not exceeded. It
true that attention should be given to the somewhat greater sensitivity
of a molybdenum-bearing steel to overheating, superficial burning, and
surface decarburization, in hot working as well as the subsequent treatments at the shop, for instance, the forging-on of the cutting edges
or the welding-on of the plates, and the respective heat treatments.
In regard to the 8% Mo steel, corresponding to the composition of the
American Mo-MAX steel, Scherer, (4) and recently also Briefs(15) have pointed
215
-16-
out some disadvantages in this respect which upon rehardening may
cause an irregular performance in use.
Scaling and Decarburization.
In this connection, a knowledge of the contributary effect
of the different alloying elements on the occurrence of such phenomena
is of considerable interest. with simple alloy steels, the depth of
penetration of "burning phenomena" in the form of "branches of scale"
in the surface zone increases with increasing molybdenum contents (Fig.
(16)
The similarity of the effect of molybdenum, in this respect,
(16,17)
with that of nickel has been pointed out by several investigators.
7).
with increased molybdenum contents, accordingly, a deterioration of the
surface due to penetration of scaling should be expected with high speed
steels, also. To investigate the extent to which this undesirable
phenomenon would occur with high speed steels, some typical alloys, 1.e.
molybdenum high speed steels with molybdenum contents, increasing from
2.5% to 12%, were annealed in oxidizing furnace gases at 1200 °C (2192F)
for eight hours, together with tungsten types containing tungsten
between 10 and 18% It was found that the penetration of the scale into
the surface zones, with all molybdenum steels, even those with the
highest alloying contents, was hardly more pronounced than with the
tungsten steels (Fig. 8). It appears that the intensification
of
the diffusion of oxides due to molybdenum additions as observed with
plain carbon steel (Fig. 7), is somewhat mitigated by other alloying
elements of the high speed steel. Similar conditions prevail in chromenickel steels in which the burning phenomena appear to be suppressed
by the chrome additions which latter render chrome-nickel steels relatively insensitive when compared to straight nickel steels.
-17-
216
In regard to scaling losses, the molybdenum high speed steels
show an even better performance than the tungsten steels, upon such
(18)
an annealing treatment inasmuch as with the latter types, the well-known
more pronounced scaling is rendered appreciable by pronounced growth
(Fig. 9). with the molybdenum steels, on the other hand, the scaling loss
becomes continuously smaller, as may be seen from the appearance of the
samples, and especially from the losses in weight due to scaling as
ascertained after scaling off by rapping or pickling or similar methods.
Te thus find for high steel steels a similar dependence of the scaling
upon the molybdenum content, as has been ascertained for unalloyed steels
(19)
An inferior performance of molybdenum
by Scheil and Kiwit (Fig. 10)
steels in regard to scaling, therefore, could not be observed.
As to surface decarburization, the molybdenum high speed steels
(11)
show a behavior similar to that of straight molybdenum steels (Fig. 11)
The steels annealed at 1200 °C (2192 °F), disregarding a wider bark zone
of the 5.5% 3, 4.5% Mo steel, show a continuous increase in the depth
of the decarburized layer as the molybdenum content increases (Fig. 12).
The danger of a surface decarburization and a concurrent volatilization
of the molybdenum, accordingly, increases with increasing molybdenum
contents. with the tungsten steels, also, the surface decarburization
becomes more pronounced with higher tungsten additions. Consequently,
the surface decarburization of a tungsten high speed steel with 18% 7
and 1% V is hardly smaller than that of a low molybdenum steel with 2.4%
Mo. The structure of the outermost zone of the decarburized surface
layer, with molybdenum steels, consists of ferrite and a FeMo compound,
while tungstides occur in the tungsten steels. The number of these
tungstides, which is especially large in the transition zones, could
give the impression of a recarburization (Fig. 13) which assumption is
217
-18-
refuted by the low carbon content of the surface zones.
In this connection, it should be mentioned that the decar-
burization of high speed steel causes a high degree of sensitivity
toward cracking in quenching. Hardening cracks may occur even if the
decarburization can be barely recognized when inspecting the structure
and if after the quenching, the surface still gives Rockwell hardness
values as high as 58-60, as against 64-65 in the core. That this de-
terioration is actually due to surface decarburization, can be proved
by the fact that after slightly dressing the surface, satisfactory
hardening is most readily possible. A sensitivity to quenching cracks
may also be produced artificially by decarburization. Thus, for instance, an appreciable number of 10 mm. (0.393) square samples, 100
mm. (3.93) in length and prepared from an 18% Y, 1$ V steel, were de-
carburizing by exposing for ten hours to a stream of wet hydrogen at
a temperature of 900 °C (1652 °F); and also by a five-hour anneal at
1000 °C (1832 °F) in an oxidizing furnace atmosphere followed by oil
quenching from 1280 °C (2336 °F); practically 100% of these samples
developed cracks, while the respective non-decarburized samples, with
the same hardening treatment, invariably remained free from cracks. To
explain the great sensitivity to cracking on quenching of high speed
steels as due to surface decarburization, it should be borne in mind
that an incomplete hardening of the decarburized surface zone as against
the fully hardened core goes hand in hand with a smaller increase in
volume. Thus, especially with a steel which hardens throughout, a
thin surface zone is placed under high tensile stresses to which must
be added the thermal stresses resulting from the high quenching tempera-
tures customary with high speed steels. It is evident that this concentra
tion of stresses, coupled with an increased number of dispersed particles
-19-
2.8
resulting from the formation of tungstide, may become so considerable
as to entail a release in the form of incipient cracks. The occurrence
of such hardening strain cracks as a result of surface decarburization
has also been observed with the molybdenum high speed steels. The
cracking is in many cases facilitated by the absence of a transformation
in the decarburized, ferritic surface zone which for this reason, may
produce a pronounced coarse grain in view of the high hardening temperatures.
Sensitivity to Overheating in Hardening.
It is at well known fact that the efficiency of a high speed
steel is most markedly influence by the hardened structure obtained on
quenching. Both excessive times and excessive temperatures entail a
deterioration of the ability to hold cutting power. To ascertain the
differences in the sensitivity to overheating which may occur with
the new types of high speed steel, some of the molybdenum steels were
compared with the tungsten steels as to the occurrence of overheating
phenomena upon hardening from increasing temperatures. with a holding
time of one minute at the hardening temperature, and on the basis of
the fracture obtained with disks 10 mm. (0.93") in thickness (Fig. 141
it could be found that relatively high hardening temperature which were
but little below those customarily applied to the 18% 7, 1.1% V or 14% *
2.4% V high speed steels, do not entail any overheating. with the
tungsten high speed steels, the limit of the overheating temperatures
becomes lower with decreasing tungsten content. For this reason, the
quenching temperature of incipient overheating of the 10% . steel is
somewhat lower than that of the 18% W steel. For short holding times,
of the order of one minute, as may be seen from Fig. 14, overheating
sets in with the molybdenum-bearing steels, at the same temperatures
-20-
229
with the 14% and 10% W steels. When extending the holding time to
two minutes, the maximum permissible hardening temperature is reduced
by about 50 °C (90 °F) with the tungsten-free, 3.2% Mo steels. The
other steels, especially the high tungsten steel with 18% W are somewhat
Less sensitive to excessive heating times inasmuch as the variation in
Incipient overheating becomes less as the holding time is increased.
In the structure the beginning of overheating may be recognized from certain fusion phenomena as illustrated in Fig. 15 for some
the steels. It should be mentioned that the overheating, as noticeable
the fracture and from the fusion phenomena in the structure, sets in at
somewhat different temperature inasmuch as the fusion phenomena in
the structure, as a rule, become perceptible only at slightly higher
temperatures. The consequences of excessive heating times are not
equally distinct from the appearance of the structure. With the 18% #
steel, certain sporadic incipient fusion signs make themselves felt
at a quenching temperature of 1320 °C (2408 °F) --Fig. 15a--; with the
14% 4 steel, at 1300 °C (2372 °F) --Fig. 15b--. In the case of the 10%
steel, at 1280 °C (2336 °F), only occasional signs of fusion are observed (Fig. 15c), while with a hardening temperature of 1300 °C (2372F),
the ledeburitic structure uniformly arranged in the grain boundaries is
Indicative of the fact that the melting temperature has been exceeded
(Fig. 15d). The high speed steel with 4.5% Mo and 5.5% V, at a tempera-
cure of 1280 °C (2336 °F) --Fig. 15e-- 16 still free from overheating
phenomena which at 1300 °C (2372 °F) affect relatively large portions
of the structure (Fig. 15f). The low molybdenum, tungsten-free steels
both show incipient fusion only at 1320 °C (2408 °F) --Figs. 15h and k--.
the lower hardening temperature of 1300 °C (2372 °F), the large quan-
city of carbides is remarkable, especially with the 4.7% V steel (Fig. 15g)
-21-
220
The 8% No steel which corresponds to the American Mo-MAX type which
at 1280 °C (2336 ° °F) still shows a satisfactory hardened structure
(Fig. 15 1) undergoes marked fusion at the next higher hardening temperature (Fig. 15 a).
on the whole, it is thus found that the high tungsten steels
with 14% , and more, show signs of incipient fusion only in sporadic
cases, while in the other steels, especially those with elevated molybdenum contents, after exceeding a definite temperature, the large pro-
portion of ledeburitic structure indicates a very rapid propagation
of the fusion process. This more rapid spread of the melting process
points to a different trend of the melting point curve which fact should
be of importance for the heat treating practice. Especially in small
shops, high speed steels are not always hardened at accurately fixed
temperatures. In many cases, it is customary to watch the tool in
heating and to harden it as soon as the first beads of sweat have formed
at the extreme tip of the cutting edge. This procedure which is entirely
justified with high tungsten steels, may possibly prove an obstacle to
a rapid introduction of low alloy steels containing tungsten and molybdenum. Otherwise, the cutting efficiency is improved just as the hardening temperature is increased, with the low alloy 3.2% Mo steels as with
the tungsten high speed steels (Fig. 16) so that it is desirable to
approach the limit of overheating as closely as possible, to obtain a
maximum tool life.
All of the new high speed steels discussed here are suitably
tempered at 500 an 550 °C (932 to 1022 °F), as may also be seen from
the data on the hardening of the steels of Fig. 1.
Sensitivity to Annealing.
In annealing, tungsten steels tend to precipitate stable
tungsten carbides (9) which pass into solution, if at all, with great
223
-22-
difficulty only. at the customary hardening temperatures. Even with
the low alloy tungsten steels, such a precipitation of carbides entails
disturbances, for instance, in "silver steel* with 15 T. a deterioration
of the hardenability is obtained; with tangsten magnet steel (6% W)
decrease in coercive force and magnetic force, and with "Riffel" steel
containing 8% W, a deterioration of the tool life is observed.
It is a less known fact, however, that tangsten high speed
steels also are sensitive to excessive annealing and suffer a decrease
of their cutting efficiency with prolonged times of annealing. This
decrease may occur already with annealing times of ten hours, at normal
annealing temperatures of 850-880 °C (1562-1516) F), especially so if
the annealing is followed by a comparatively slow furnace cooling.
To shed additional light on these undestrable characteristics
of tungeten high speed steels, excessive annealing times, from 30 to
50 hours, were applied and their effect usem the ability to hold the
cutting power was compared on the basis of some of the tungsten steels
studied, an assortment of the low tungsten or tungsten-free steels.
and an unannealed steel in the as-forged.ccnditiom It was found that
with all molybdemun-bearing steels (Fig. 17), the cutting efficiency
does not show a drop of more than 10%, even with very long annealing
times, 1.e. the deterioration is rather small. Conditions are somewhat
less favorable with the two high molybdenum steels, if subjected
to the longer annealing time; in this case, also, however, the drop
does not exceed 156. On the other hand, with the tungsten high speed
steels, the precipitation of difficulty soluble, stable tungsten carbides entails an appreciable decrease in the cutting ability which with
the longest annealing time may be as high as 30-00% This is also true
of the 10% W steel. In regard to the sensitivity to annealing, there-
222
-23-
ore, the molybdenum high steed steels are superior to the tungsten types.
In reviewing the new information obtained in the course of
the present investigation, we arrive at the fact that it 16 readily possible to attain high cutting efficiencies with steels whose alloy conCent is far below the customary limits so that considerable savings in
expensive, foreign-produced alloying elements are possible. Of the
substitute steels shown in Fig. 1, the types with 5.5% W, and 4.5% Mo
have already proved their value in practical application over a considerable period of time. Inasmuch as these alloys have been developed
and tested in the same manner as the other steels enumerated here, there
reason to assume that the other alloys also will be found useful upon
practical application. Depending on the efficiency desired, the alloy
contents may be reduced to slightly above 1% molybdenum and vanadium,
necessary with small additions of tungsten.
If should be corne in mind, however, that the time is not very
far behind us at which high speed steels were, on principle, evaluated
and bought on the basis of their alloy content. This custom will no
doubt, still be found to prevail with a great many users who will
accept the new alloys with considerable reluctance. If we consider
furthermore, that special heat treatments, working procedures, etc.
are required, it is quite certain that occasional failures will be encountered in their introduction. On the whole, however, the present
paper has shown that no insurmountable obstacles will be found, if the
information now available is adequately utilized. It is suggested, that
then adopting the new steels, low molybdenus types be given preference,
Inasmuch as the possibility of failures increases with higher molybdenum
contents, while no worth-while improvements in the tool life comensate for the higher expense.
-24-
223
Literature References:
(1) E. Houdremont, H. Bennek, and H. Schrader, ARCHIV EISENHUETTEN-
WESEN, vol. 6, 1932-33, pp. 24-32;
(2) W. Tofaute, A. Sponheuer, and H. Bennek, TECHNISCHE MITTEILUNGEN
KRUPP, vol. 4, 1936, pp. 172-80; ARCHIV EISENHUETTENWESEN, vol.
8, 1934-5, pp. 499-506;
(3) Taylor and Walliche, "Ueber Dreharbeit und Werkzeugstaehle" Berlin,
Springer, 1908, p. 197;
(4) STAHL UND EISEN, vol. 55, 1935, pp. 1001-5; [The report proper
is available in full translation; Order No. 482; 2900 words.The "Discussion" of this report which relates to the patent
situation, has not been translated.- Translator's Note].
(5) TRANS. AMER. SOC. STEEL TREAT. vol. 21, 1933, pp. 193-232; IRON
AGE, vol. 134, 1934, No. 23, p. 32; U. S. Patent No. 1,937,334
1934;
(6) E. Houdremont, TECHNISCHE MITTEILUNGEN KRUPP, vol. 5, 1937, pp.
153-173;
(7) Patent Application B 10.30 C1. 18d 2/60, by Becker, of Kladno;
(8) R. Hohage and A. Grützner, STAHL UND EISEN, vol. 45, 1925, pp.
1126-30;
(9) E. Houdremont, "Sonderstahlkunde", Springer, 1935, p. 367; 327;
(10) U. S. Patent No. 1937334, 1934;
(11) E. Houdremont and H. Schrader, to appear shortly in FORSCHUNGSBERICHTE KRUPP;
(12) Part of these data has been made known to the Subcommittee on
High-Grade Steels, about 8 months ago, 80 as to hasten the introduction of such steels;
(13) E. Houdremont, "Sonderstahlkunde", Springer, Berlin, 1935; p. 336;
(14) G. V. Luerssen and C. V. Greene, AMER. SOC. TEST. MET. V. 33,
1933, pp. 315-23;
(15) MASCHINENBAU, "Der Betrieb", vol. 16, 1937, pp. 439-42;
(16) H. Schrader, TECHNISCHE MITTEILUNGEN KRUPP, vol. 2, 1934, pp. 136142;
(17) E. Houdremont, CHALEUR ET INDUSTRIE, vol. 15, 1934, pp. 150-58;
(18) A. Fry, TECHNISCHE MITTEILUNGEN KRUPP, vol. 1, 1933, p. 1-11;
(19) ARCHIV EISENHUETTENWESEN, V. 9, 1935-6, pp. 405-16.
and E. Schreder
HIGH
STEELS
IMPORTED
SPEED
ALLOYING
Plate
1-
224
Tungates
Section
Tenadium
Clearance
ne-0
Fig.
roughing
experiments
for
cutting
sin
safe
Life - 15 ats
712.3 Ratio of tangsten content
vanadium content is high speed steel
for the same cutting efficiency
Material Oat- Cr-FL steel with
Tensile Strength of 100 kg/mm;
- Depth of Chip
Cutting Speed- 40m/min
Cutting Speed- 45 meters/mis
Smooth Scaft
www.us
Fig. Influence of variations of tungsten vacation
and solyblesses the cutting efficiency
Smooth Staff
Smooth
of Mg speed steels chrome content of 45.
Slotted Staff
Slatted Shaft
Slotted
Dutting Speed is maters ats
25% Ma 47%
LBS 5.43
LT
LA
4,20
e
L
LA
4
as
INJ
La
4
14,4
zu
16,1
USMAUS
a
LT
LT
U
5,00
night Dependence of tool life two
differently alloyed high speed steels
- chrosion content.
additions
718.5 Tool life function of
multi
cutting speed with ispact-like stresses
for
atmosphere
Thes Jointly Assealing Oxidining
penetrati
Durning
Fig. 10
into
steel
716.6 Comparison of sensitivity of
differently alloyed Me speed steels
to impact-like stresses resulting from
interruptions is cutting.
Sealing
of
different
accdg.
Scheil
to
differently
alloye
120
for
Purely Territic
Core-75%
0. c.
100.
Total
Decarturization
FIELD
224
HIGH
OF
Plate z
01 011
ne ll- Influence of
Fig. 13- Surface structure of
No on surface decarbur-
isation of steel
decarburised high speed steel
with 186 V, 46 Or and 1.1% V.
on ammaling in H2.
Mr. 11-
11c.12
Dimensions of Sample 30 - (1.18 in)
square section; 10 mm. (.39 in) long.
-
perisokimip
Holding min
www.use
Holding at
71g.14 Sensitivity to
Fig.
overbeating of differently
alloyed high speed steels
according to fracture.
SEA
14-
24
1.4
Feed- 1.4 m. Depth of Chip-
5.0 - Cutting Speed- 13 =
min. Material Cut- Cr-N1 Steel
with tensile strength of 100 kg
/mm) Annealing at 550 "C: 1 hr.
USNAL
DISCUSS
Flg. 16- Effect of hardeaing temperature upon
-
tool life of low-alloy
high speed steel with
Fig. 16-
Quenching Temperature
3.26 Mo and 2.5% T.
*
Feed- 1.4 mm Depth of
Chin- 5.0
al Cut-
with Tenaile
Fig. 17- Variation of
tool life due to
ing with differently
of 100
alloyed high speed steels
184 W. 1.15 T.
Fig. 12- Surface decarturisation of
high speed steels of different alleys
eight hours' amsaling at
1200
100.
Flg.17
Holding Time at Hardening Temperature Minutes. Marc. 500 Dia
Fig. 15 Phenomena of Incipient Fusion with Differently High
225
ENRY BRUTCHER- Technical Service , Williewbrook Ave. . LANSDOWNE, PA.
R. Scherer:
State 2
State:
State
HIGH SPEED STEELS LOW IN TUNGSTEN AND
FROM TUNGSTEN.
Legend:
Stahl
Steel:
Gehartet
Hardened in
in 01
oil:
AngelassenTempered:
Abgeschreckt Quenched in
in 01
oil.
Fig. 2-
Fig. 1-
Fig. 1-
228
Fig. 3Date
Cutting Speed in Meters Minute.
Fig. 3-
Fig.
18.97
Material Cut - C-steel;
Material Cut - Cr-N1 Steel tensile strength: 73 kg
tensile strength 87 kg/
Material Cut - Steel with
tensile strength of 85
(120,900 lbs /in?
- (123,700 lbs inf).
not (103,800 lbs /inv)
Fig. 10-
-
-
Fig. 11"
State
Fig. 10-
12345
Cutting Speed in Meters Minute
Fig.
Material Cut Mn-S1
Material Cut - Plain CSteel: tensile strength:
Steel: tensile strength:
87 kg/mm? (123700 1.s.i.)
Fig. 5-
Fig. 4Fig.
Figs.
Fig. 6-
Cutting Speed in Meters Minute.
10
and
11-
75 kg/ (106700 1.s.i.)
Tool life vs. cutting speed curves of high
speed steels with different alloy contents.
Fig.
Buse
BUSI
Material Cut - Plain Steel:
tensile strength: 75 kg/
(106,600 bs/inf).
Material Cut n-steel
tensile strength: 85 kg
- (120,900 1bs/in?)
11-
Material Cut Mn-S1
Steel: tensile strength
01% %
Our
85 kg/mm
State
Staff
123
as
Cutting Speed in /min.
F. 12- Drilling Efficiency
of high-speed steels with
different alley contents.
#
29
If
Cutting Speed in m/min.
Fig. 13- Influence of V content upon
cutting efficiency of Mo-W high speed
(Feed - 0142 in. Diameter steels (feed - .036 in.: thickness of
Fig. 7Fig. 7-
of drill - .86 in. Depth
Fig. 9-
Fig. 8-
#
Cutting Speed in Meters Minute.
of single holes drilled
1.96 inches)
Fig. 9-
cut
.118).
Mo-W Steel with 8% Mo. 45 Cr. 2% W.
oil-quenched from 1220 C: Tempered
at 570 °C. - Material Cut: Mn-steel
with tensile strength of 74 kg/m?
Mo-W Steel with 46 Mo, 45 Cr. & 6% V.
011 quenched from 1280 °C: tempered
Material Cut-Mn-S1 Steel:
Material Cut - Mn Steel:
Material Drilled - Plain at 570 C.- Material Cut: Mn-Si steel
C-steel: tensile strength: with tensile strength of 83 kg/mm?
Material Cut Mn-Si
tensile strength: 75 kg/
78 kg/mm (111000 1.s.i.)
Steel: tensile strength
- (120,900 1bs/in?).
86 kg/mm - 122,300 1.17 - (106,700 1bs/in?
Figs. 1-9. Tool-life vs. cutting speed curves of high speed steels with different
tensile strength: 85 kg
alloy contents.
227
No, 495
HIGH SPEED STEELS LOW IN TUNGSTEN AND FREE FROM TUNGSTEN
By R. Scherer
[Translated from STAHL UND EISEN, vol. 57, pp. 1355-59, 1937]
Synopsis:
Experiments aiming at a lowering
of the tungsten content in high
speed steels (a) without changing
the percentages of the other
alloying elements, and (b) with
an increase of the vanadium and
molybdenum contents.
Experiments with molybdenum high
speed steels without and with
tungsten.
The development of the vanadium-bearing high speed steels
in the years 1925 and 1926 had shown that higher vanadium contents
enabled an increase in the cutting efficiency, provided the carbon
content was raised beyond the ordinary value 80 as to insure a "fixation"
of the vanadium carbide. At that time, in the course of the respective
preliminary experiments, the problem of the tungeten content, also,
was subjected to a critical re-examination and it was found that
the same results were obtained with tungsten contents from 11 to 20%
the percentages of carbon, chrome, and vanadium remaining unchanged.
-2-
228
An example of this work 18 given in Fig. 1 in which the tool-life vs.
cutting speed curves for steels with 18 and with 12% W have been
plotted. The diagram, at the same time, indicates the influence of
a carbon content suitably balanced with the vanadium content, and the
increase in cutting efficiency upon increasing the vanadium content.
Additions beyond 5.0% vanadium did not bring any appreciable further
improvement. These steels as well as all of the others were tested
in the form of cutting tools, 30 mm. (1.18") square with straight tool
edges on steel shafts having a tensile strength of 70-90 kg/mm (99 128,000 1bs/in.). The feed was 0.92 m (0.0362*) and the thickness of
chip, 3 mm. (0.118"). The results of these tests were graphed out
in the form of tool life VS. cutting speed curves. In view of these
data, the idea suggested itself to study the influence of the tungsten
content on the well-known cobalt high speed steels. As may be seen
from Fig. 2, in this case, also, the efficiency remained unimpaired
when the tungsten content was reduced from 18 to 14% while the other
constituents remained constant. In spite of the lower tungsten content, an increase of the vanadium content from 1.5 to 2.0% led to an
appreciable increase in the production. With 10% Co steels, a similar
result was obtained.
From what has been said before, there results that the widely
held opinion according to which high speed steels must have a tungsten
content of about 18% to be satisfactory, is quite erroneous. Additional
lathe tests were then made with low tungsten steels without cobalt
and with low vanadium contents. The high speed steels tested in this
connection contained 12 and 8% W, and were compared, on the basis of
turning tests, with steels having 18% W, 4% Cr and 1% V, or 0.75% V,
respectively. From Figs. 3 and 4, it may be seen that the high speed
229
-3-
steels with 8 to 12% IN very closely approached the output of the 18%
tungsten steels. In summarizing, it may be said that
(1) High speed steels with 11-12% W, 4% Cr, and 0.857. are equivalent to
(1)
18% W, 4% Cr, .8% V steels as regards production;
(2) high speed steels with about 8% W, 4% Cr, and 1% V are definitely
inferior to the 18-4-1 type; the difference, however, is relatively
small, in view of their low tungsten content.
In drilling tests, also, the low tungsten high speed steels
make a surprisingly good showing (Fig. 12). These tests were run under
shop conditions and all of the tools were used until the edges became
blunt. In all cases, the typical blunting sign were observed on the
drills. Drill 1 with 8.93% W and 1.07% V gave a smaller production
than the comparison drill; on the other hand, Steel 2 with 10.68% W
and 1.25% V very closely approached the customary 18% W. 0.86% V steel
in regard to the tool life. From the economic viewpoint, the inferiority
of Steel 2 is inconsiderable, inasmuch as the more than 100% higher
content of the 18% W steel insures only a small improvement. By reducing
W
the cutting speed by only 0.5 m/min. (1.6 ft./min.), the low W drill
No. 2 reaches the production of the steel with 18% W, 4% Cr, and 0.8% V.
It should be borne in mind that Drill 2 has a higher vanadium content,
while the comparison drill contains 0.60% Mo.
In another series of experiments with low tungsten steels
containing from 10 to 6% W, 1.0 to 2.5% V, and 0.1 to 1.1% Mo, an attempt was made at ascertaining in how far a lower tungsten content can
be balanced by an increase of the vanadium content and by additions of
molybdenum. The respective results have been given in Fig. 5. Steel 1
with 10% W and 1.2% V shows the same production as a steel with 18% W,
-4-
230
4% Cr and 1% V. with Steel 2 a slight addition of molybdenum (0.89%)
compensates for the lower contents of W (8.85%) and V (1.0%) 80 that
this steel shows almost the same tool life as Steel 1. A comparison of
Steel 2 with Steel 5 shows that a reduction of the chrome content to
2.5% with otherwise unchanged analysis, results in a small drop in
production. Similarly, Steel 4 which does not contain any molybdenum
and whose tungsten content is 1% less than that of Steel 2, gives a
production which is below that of Steel 2. with Steel 3, it is found
that it is possible to reduce the tungsten content to about 6% provided
at the same time, the vanadium content is raised to about 2.4% The
10% W steels containing 1.2% V. consequently, are equivalent to the
18-4-1 steels. A lowering of the tungsten content to about 8% can be
compensated for by a molybdenum content of about 0.9% while another
reduction of the tungsten content, coupled with a corresponding increase
of the vanadium content, again leads to about equal productions. The
heat treatment of the low tungsten steels the same as with the high
tungsten steels of the customary analysis, i.e. quenching from 12801300 °C (2336-2372 °F) in oil from a gas heated muffle furnace, a one-
half hour's tempering at 570 °C (1058 °F) with subsequent cooling in air.
(2)
In an earlier report on experiments with molybdenum high speed
(3)
steels containing 2% , and 1% V, it was stated that these steels
gave the same production as a high speed steel containing 18% W, 4% Cr
and 1% V. The data given in this earlier report on the heat treatment
should be supplemented in the sense that a decarburization of this steel
in forging and rolling may be avoided with the use of borax. The latter
is either spread on the hot ingots or billets in the form of a powder,
or is preferably applied in aqueous solutions. It could be proved that
no loss of molybdenum is incurred with these steels. Table 1 gives the
231
-5-
carbon and molybdenum contents which were ascertained upon repeated,
unprotected heating to 1200 °C (2192 °F) in the outer layers of rods.
Table 1- Influence of Anneal at 1200 °C (2192 °F) Upon
Carbon and Molybdenum Contents in the Outer Layers
of Molybdenum High Speed Steels.
Samples Taken
Sample 1
Sample 2
%C
& Mo
%C
% No
0.0236 to 0.0315 . below surface
0.16
0.25
0.38
0.19
0.78
8.40
8.36
8.38
Core
8.57
8.62
8.62
8.50
0.0039 to 0.0197 inch from surface
0.0354 to 0.0393
below surface
0.38
0.49
0.76
8.26
Thereas the decarburizing effect is very marked, the molybdenum contents in core and rim zones are about the same. The evolution of fumes as
observed in forging and rolling must be ascribed to volatile molytdenum; however, the latter originates merely from the scale. As a consequence, it must be assumed that there is only a volatilization of
the molybdenum oxide and not of the molybdenum from the steel. On the
basis of further, more exhaustive and repeated experiments, it may
be said on the basis of data now available that the molybdenum containing
steels show the same rough-turning production as the high speed steels
with 18% # and 1.5% V (cf. Fig. 11). The tool life in drilling, on the
other hand, corresponds to that of a steel with 18% 7, 4% Cr and 13 V.
Fig. 6 gives the result of experiments which were intended
to shed light on the influence of an increased tungsten content with a
simultaneous lowering of the molybdenum portion, and also on the influence of the vanadium content with otherwise unchanged compositions.
As may be seen, a steel with 6% 7, 4% Mo, and 2% V surpasses by far the
steel with 8% Ko, 2% * and 1% V, and also the steel with 18% 7, 4% Cr,
and 1.5% V. Its production is between that of the steels with 12% ,
and 2.5% V, and of the 5% cobalt high speed steel. This steel, there-
232
-6-
fore, has an excellent production; moreover, thanks to the reduced
molybdenum content, it does not show the marked tendency toward de-
carburization, and hence, lends itself to heat treating practically in
the same manner as the tungsten steels. The heat treatment of this
steel consisted in an oil quench from 1280 °C (2336 °F), a 30-minutes'
draw at 570 °C (1058 °F), followed by cooling in air. The influence
of the vanadium content in Mo-W steels with 6% or 2% respectively,
4% No and 8% Mo may be seen from Figs. 7 and 13. An increase of the
vanadium content from 0.5% to 1.0% leads to a doubling of the turning
efficiency, while an increase from 1% to 2% does not bring the expected
improvement, 1, e. as it can be obtained with the customary tungsten
high speed steels. The tool life curve (Fig. 7) of a Mo-3 steel with
7% No, 1.5% W and an addition of 4% V lies between that of the No-T
steel with 8% No, 2% W and 1% V and that of the 6% *, 4% No and 25 V
steel. Inasmuch as the quantity of carbide which has passed into
solution, is of great importance, the dissolution of a maximum amount
of carbide was to be attained by increasing the quenching temperature
and extending the heating time; however, no success was obtained.
Our further experiments related to tungsten-free Mo-high speed
steels and more specifically, to a study of the influence of vanadium
contents in excess of 2%. From the tool life vs. cutting speed curves
of Fig. 8, the conclusion may be drawn that the tungsten-free No high
speed steels with about 7% No. and 2.5% V show a much lower production
than the tungsten steel with 18% W, 4% Cr and 1.5% V, or the No-W steel
with 8% No, 2% IN and 1% V. By increasing the carbon content. in accordance with the increased vanadium content, an improvement could be
obtained. It was only with a vanadium content of 3.8% and a corresponding
carbon content, that about the same tool life was obtained as with the
-7-
233
86 No, 2% 3, 1% V steels and the 18% W, 4% Cr, 1.5% V steels. A lowering
of the No content to about 3% Mo with a simultaneous increase of the
vanadium percentage to about 4% gives a steel whose production approaches
that of the , high speed steel with 18% W, 4% Cr and 0.5% V, but does
not reach that of an 18-4-1 steel (Fig. 9). In summarizing, it may be
said that in tungsten-free Mo high speed steels with 7% Ko, only a
vanadium content of more than 3.5% insures a production of the type shown
by the No-W steels with 8% Mo, 2% W and 1% V.
It was then tried to increase the production of the Mo-W
steels by additions of cobalt. The increased tool life of cobalt high
speed steels is due to the fact that cobalt increases the dissolving
capacity of the ground mass for carbides and enables the application
of higher quenching ranges and hence, a higher degree of dissolution
of the carbides. In Fig. 10, the tool life V8. cutting speed curves of
& Mo-T steel with 8% Mo, 2% W and 1% V with and without cobalt (5% Co)
have been plotted. The curves show that the addition of cobalt does
not bring about an increase in production. It proved also impossible
to affect the results by the application of different hardening temperatures, ranging from 1200 to 1300 °C (2192 to 2372 °F). Table 2 contains
the test results on molybdenum-tungsten steels melted and heattreated in the United States and containing additions of 5 and 8% Co
and vanadium contents of from 1% to 2% The values do not show a clear
trend. Additions of 5% Co give a small extra production, while with additions of 8% Co, no increase in production as compared to the cobaltfree Mo-7 steel has been obtained (for Table 2, see page 8 of translation). A vanadium content of from 1 to 2% 18 without importance. These
experiments show that the influence of the cobalt and vanadium content
on these steels is still obscure and in need of further investigations.
-8-
234
Table 2- Influence of Varying Cobalt Contents Upon Tool
Life of No-W High Speed Steels. (Material Machined
had a Tensile Strength of 73 kg/mm2 [103,800 1bs/
in?];
- 0.92 [0.0362"] ]; Depth of Chip 3
mm.Feed
[0.118"]).
1.15
1.08
5.74
2.02
1.36
8.02
2.05
8.51
1.90 1.09
4.60
-
47
min. 27
30 sec. 20 min. 35 sec.
46
38
38
.
.
37. .
.
27
25
.
.
10 .
19
20
19
20
.
50
15
10
50
.
2.05
1.00
19 m(62.3')/min. 20 (65.6')/min.
.
8.30
8.57
1.80
Co
.
8.29
6.37
9.46
V
.
3.95
3.81
3.70
3.56
4.10
W
.
No
.
0.79
0.94
0.63
0.85
0.78
Cr
.
C
Tool Life With Cutting Speed of
.
Composition in %
Special attention will have to be given to the possibility of influencing
the solubility of the carbides by cobalt and to the composition of the
double carbide.
Summary:
With the cobalt high-speed steels, a reduction of the tungsten
content from 18% to 14% 18 without influence, while an increase of the
vanadium content, with reduced tungsten content, insures an increase
in efficiency. Steels with 10-11% 7, 4% Cr and 1.2% V are equivalent
in production to the high speed steels with 18% W, 4% Cr, and 1% V. A
lowering of the tungsten content to 8% can be offset by a molybdenum
content of about 0.8% to 1.0% High speed steels with 6% 3 and a Vcontent of about 2.5% show good productions which approach those of
the 18-4-1 steel.
The tool life of the Mo-W high speed steels with 8% Mo, 2% W
and 1% V is the same as that of the steels with 18% v, 4% Cr and 1.5% V.
An increase of the tungsten content with a simultaneous lowering of the
molybdenum percentage (6% W and 4% Mo) leads to steels whose production
lies between that of steels with 12% W and 2.5% V and that of the 5% Co
high speed steels.
-9-
235
The problem of the advisability of adding cobalt to Mo-T
steels with 8% No, 2% 7. 45 & and 1% V is in need of further investigation.
The solubility and the composition of the double carbides
of molybdenum-tungstem steels cannot be influenced by cobalt additions
in the same manner as with the tungsten high speed steels.
Tungsten-free molybdenum steels with about 7% Mo show the
same production as 8% No, 26 W, 4% Cr. 1% V Mo-T-steels. or as 18% W,
4% Qr. 1.5% V W-steels only if their vanadium content is higher than
3.56
A reduction of the molybdenum content to 36, with vanadium
additions of 45, enables tungsten-free steels to show almost the same
production as a steel with 18$ W, 4% Cr. and 0.5% V.
References:
(1) German Patent Application Filed by E. Becker of Kladno, under
Class 18d; Group 2/60; B 10.30:
(2) E. Pohl, H. Pollack and R. Scherrer, STAHL UND EISEN, vol. 55,
po. 1003-1005, 1935 [Available in Translation; Order No. 482;
2900 words.- Translator's Note];
(3) J. V. Emmons, U. S. Patent No. 1,937,334, 1934.
R. Scherer:
Date
State:
State
HIGE SPEED STEELS LOW IN TUNGSTEE AND FHEE
FROM TUNGSTEN.
Legend:
Stahl
Gehartet
in 01
236
Steel:
Eardened in
oil:
Angelassen- Tempered:
Abgeschreckt Quenched in
in 01
oil.
Fig. 2Fig. 1-
Fig. 3Date
Cutting Speed in Meters/Minute
Material Cut Steel with
tensile strength of 85
(120,900 lbs/in?
Fig.
Fig.
Material Cut - C-steel:
Material Cut - Cr-N1 Steel tensile strength: 73 kg
tensile strength 87 kg
=? (123,700 lbs/in:).
not (103,800 lbs/1mg)
-
Fig. 10-
Fig. 11"
Cutting Speed in Meters Minute
Fig. 10Fig. 11-
was
Material Cut Mn-Si
Steel: tensile strength:
Material Cut - Plain c
Steel: tensile strength:
87 kg/md (123700 1.s.i.)
Fig. 5-
Fig.
Fig.
Material Cut - Plain Steel:
tensile strength: 75 kg/-2
(106,600 lbs inf).
Figs. 10 and 11- Tool life vs. cutting speed curves of high
Fig. 6-
Cutting Speed in Minute.
75 kg/- (106700 1.s.i.)
speed steels with different alloy contents.
Fig.
Buss
Material Cut Mn-steel:
tensile strength: 85 kg
- (120,900 lbs/in?)
Bus
Material Cut Mn-Si
Steel: tensile strength
Our
Our
85 kg/ml
Date
Cutting Speed in /min.
F. 12- Drilling Efficiency
of high-speed steels with
different alley contents.
Cutting Speed in m/min
Fig. 13- Influence of V content upon
cutting efficiency of Mo-1 high speed
(Feed - 0142 in. Diameter steels (feed - .036 in.: thickness of
Fig. 8-
of drill - .86 in. Depth
Fig. 9-
of single holes drilled
1.96 inches.)
Fig.
Material Cut-Mn-Si Steel;
Cutting Speed in Meters Minute.
Fig.
Material Cut Ma Steel:
tensile strength: 75 kg
.118).
No-1 Steel with 8% Mo. 4% Cr. 26 .
oil-quenched from 1220 C: Tempered
at 570 C. - Material Cut: Mn-staal
with tensile strength of 74 kg/-
Mo-W Steel with 4 Mo. 45 Cr.
011 quenched from 1280 C: tempered
at 570 C.- Material Cut: Mn-S1 steel
Material Drilled - Plain
C-steel: tensile strength: with tensile strength of 83 3g
Material Cut Mn-Si
78
Steel: tensile strength
(120,900 1bs/in?)
86 kg/ml - 122,300 1.17 - (106,700 1bs/1a?
Figs 1-9. Tool-life
vs. cutting speed curves of high speed steels with different
alloy contents.
tensile strength: 85 kg
cut
(111000 1.s.i.)
237
DIGEST OF HIGH SPECIMEN STOOLS
This digest is internitied to give a picture
of the commercial High speed steels
which will permit the contact - of Climax
Molybdenum Company to present these steels for
consideration by prospective I in a manner
which makes our position clear. It includes a
complete list of the commercially produced
molyhdenue high speed steels, the names and
addresses of the producers, the composition
ranges for the various types, general information
- fabrication and beat treating technique,
specific information and recommendations on some
types, and suggestions regarding the manner in
which producers of steel, producers of tools and
ultimate consumers should be approached.
From the point of view of Climax, THERE IS
NO INCENTIVE KEATSOEVER TO RECOMMEND ONE TYPE
OVER ANOTHER except when specific conditions in
some particular application point to the advisability of such action. This CHE best be
determined by the contact - - the job. It is
hoped this digest will permit his to select the
molyhdenus steel best suited to the job.
238
-2-
Digest of No High Speed Steels
SECTION I
TYPES AND COMPOSITION RANGES
At this writing there are in America thirty-four prominent or semiprominent brands of high speed steel in which molybdenum is an essential element.
These brands of molybdeman-containing high speed steel fall into several types, the
approximate composition ranges of which are given in the following list:
No.
Type
C
Mn
Si
Cr
Mo
If
V
Co
B
3
2
1
MoMax
Super Nollax Straight No Mo-Co-B
High V
.78/ .84
.10/.30
.20/.35
3.50/4.50
8.00/9.50
1.30/1.80
.90/1.30
-
5
4
.80/ .90
.75/1.50
Type
.10/.30
3.75/4.25
3.75/4.25
4.00/6.50
.10/.50
.20/.35
3.50/4.50
8.00/9.50
1.00/2.00
1.25/2.50
5.00/8.00
3.50/4.50
7.00/9.00
7.00/9.00
-
-
1.50/4.00
1.25/1.75
-
-
-
Balanced Ratio
.50/.90
.20/.50
.15/.30
.10/.50
.20/.35
No-R
2.5/8.0
35/1.00
.70/1.30
.15/.30
5.00/6.50
1.25/4.00
-
These types are established primarily on the basis of the ratio of
molybdenum to tungsten content and, secondarily, on the presence of significant
additional elements.
Type 1. Mollax is quite familiar to all. It is based on the
ratio patented by J. V. Emmons of
Cleveland Twist Drill Company.
Type 2. Super Mollax differs from Type 1. in that it contains
cobalt and somewhat higher carbon and vanadium.
Type 3. This type, covered by several patents, (Kingsbury; Gill
assigned to Crucible Steel Company of America and Vanadium
Alley Steel Company, respectively) does not employ
significant percentages of tungsten. In this group will
be found brands like Neatro, containing high carbon and
high vanadium, and VanLon, containing normal carbon but
2% vanadium.
Type 4. This type is also a straight solybdemon steel but contains cobalt and boron. Patents are pending on this
type by Gorban Tool Company.
Type 5. This type is outside the Emons ratio, the molybdenumtangsten balance being based on cutting properties with
relative freedom from decarburisation. D.B.L., using
4.25% No S 5, falls in this class as does Twin Six with
high carbon, high vanadium and the general 6-6 classifica-
tion. A few steels in this class contain copper.
239
-s-
Digest of No High Speed Steels
A complete list of the present brands is as follows:
MoMax (Type 1)
8% No. 4 Cr. 1% V. 1.50% .
Brand Name
Manufacturer
Address
L.M.W.
Alleghemy-Ladlum Steel Co.
Brackenridge, Pa.
Braeburn, Pa.
Reading, Pa.
New York, N. Y.
McKeesport, Pa.
Washington, Pa.
Latrobe, Pa.
Braeburn Alloy Steel Co.
Carpenter Steel Co.
Crucible Steel Co. of America
VoCut
Star Max
Rex T.Mo
Firth-Sterling Steel Co.
H.M. Blue Chip
Jessop Steel Co.
Mogul
Latrobe Electric Steel Co.
Tatmo
Universal-Cyclope Steel Co.
Vulcan Crucible Steel Co.
NoTung
Vulmo
Mohican
Di-Mol
Molza
Aliquippa, Pa.
Atlas Steels, Ltd.
Kelland, Ont. (Canada)
Bethlehem, Pa.
Henry Disston & Sons
Simonds Saw & Steel Co.
Philadelphia, Pa.
Lockport, N.Y.
Bethlehen Steel Co.
Bethlehen H.M.
Titusville, Pa.
Super Molfax (Type 2)
1.25/2.50% V. 9% No. 5.00/8.00 Co
Universal-Cyclops Steel Co.
Super MoTung
Titusville, Pa.
Straight Molybdenum, High Vanadium (Type 3)
8% No. 48 Cr. 1.50/4.00% V
Molyite
Rax V.M.
VanLom
MoVan
Columbia Tool Steel Co.
Crucible Steel Co. of America
Vanadium Alloy Steel Co.
Universal Cyclops Steel Co.
Chicago Heights, m.
Vanadium Alloy Steel Co.
Latrobe, Pa.
Halcomb Steel Co.
V.M. Dreadnaught
Neatro (High C-V)
New York, N.Y.
Latrobe, Pa.
Titusville, Pa.
Syracuse, S.I.
Molybdenum-Cobalt-Boron (Type 4)
8% No. 4% Cr. 1.00/2.00$ V. 2.00/8.00% Co+B
MoChip (1% V,2.50% Co)
Super MoChip (1.50% V
8.00% Co)
Double Six
foTung 6-6
6-6 + Cu
6-6 without Cu
6-6 Reg.
6-6 + Cu
6-6 Reg.
5-5
Twin Six (High c)
Firth-Sterling Steel Co.
McKeesport, Pa.
Firth-Sterling Steel Co.
McKeesport, Pa.
Molybdenus-Tungaten Balanced Ratio (Type 5)
Latrobe, Pa.
Latrobe Electric Steel Co.
Universal-Cyclops Steel Co.
Bethlehem Steel Co.
Bethlehen Steel Co.
Vanadium Alley Steel Co.
Henry Disston & Son Co.
Atlas Steels, Ltd.
Braeburn Alley Steel Co.
Braeburn Alloy Steel Co.
Allegheny-Ladlum Steel Co.
Crucible Steel Co. of America
6-6 Spec. (1$ c, 2.50% V) Vanedium Alloy Steel Co.
D.B.L.
5-1/2 Mo - W
Titusville, Pa.
Bethlehem, Pa.
Bethlehem, Pa.
Latrobe, Pa.
Philadelphia, Pa.
Belland, Ont. (Canada)
Braeburn, Pa.
Braeburn, Pa.
Brackenridge, Pa.
New York, N.Y.
Latrobe, Pa.
240
+
Digest of Mo High Speed Steels
SECTION II
GENERAL INFORMATION
Density
Enightenum high speed steels have a lower density than tungsten high
speed steels. The Hollax type is approximately 9 TO 10% LIGHTERE than 18-4-1. The
6-6 type is about 7% LIGHTER than 18-4-1. This is am important item in arriving
at the economy of substituting molybdenum steels for tangsten steels.
Carbon Content for Various Tools or Usages
In anlyhdenum high speed steels the carbon usually runs about 10%
higher than that used in the 18% W type and varies in the same way, according to
use. The following is a rough table of these carbon ranges which might be helpful:
Suggested Carbon Range
for No High Speed
Tools of Maximum Hardness
Tools of Medium Hardness & Toughness
Tools of Naximum Tonghness
-79/-55
.72/-78
.st/m
Rockwell age
64/68
62/65
58/64
Net work tools have been made from most of the types for certain
applications. Generally, the carbon is reduced to s/ the vanadium held
around .75/1.00, and the silicon raised to about double the usual range. In
extreme cases, such as extrusion dies and dummy blocks, exisalt is added in varying
quantities.
Forging
1.
The usual precautions for forging tangsten High speed steels should
also be applied to molybdenum steels. It is advisable to have the
material in the annealed condition before furging.
2.
The temperature recommendations very a little from one type to
another. Forging can be started on all types at a temperature from
1850 - 2050° F. Care should be taken to good the temperature
dropping below 1650 - 1700° F. before releating - any subsequent
furging or rolling operations.
3.
It is essential that the temperature be uniform throughout the piece
before the forging operation is started in order to allow the metal
to five freely and prevent any hasmer bursts or cracking due to equal flow.
4.
Due to an inherent tendency of some of the high speed
steels to decarburise when heated for furging, it is necessary to
protect these by coating with borez.
241
Digest of No Eigh Speed Steels
5.
-5-
After forging and prior to smealing all billets, bars or forget
shapes
should
be allowed to onal slowly either in dry astes, silocel,
- some such
material.
6.
7.
Protection against decarturization is not necessary on the #5 type
although some producers have protected this type as well.
The yield on molybdemum High speed steels in the forge shop will be
found to be equal to the corresponding straight tungsten steels.
Eigh carbon and other increments in composition will detract from the
forgoability just as in tungsten steels.
smelling
An annealing treatment sitential always be given after forging. It is
carried out in the same manner as for 18% . steels. The bars or forgings are placed
in boxis I tubes, packed with sand, spent charcoal, lime, iron burings = some
similar material, heated very slowly to 1500 - 1600° F. until thoroughly smoked,
and then allowed to cool in the furnace. This will usually produce a Brinell hard-
DESS of 200-255, which hardness meets most of the requirements although a little
more rapid cooling can be used on special applications where a smoother machined
surface is required. In fact, in some CLABS blanks are given a special ameal to
increase the hardness to prevent tearing on fine thread tools and hote. Quite often
complaints of hard stock are heard when the material is actually too soft. This
generally occurs when the Brinell drops below 200, causing the stock to load up on
the cutter = ahead of it, rather than break off in short chips or long spirals.
Testbody for Prevention of Decarburization m Bardening
Molybdenu steels can be hardened in all types of hardening furnaces
urally used for high speed steel work. If they are the semi-muffle, standardfired, oil IF gas furnaces, it will be necessary to protect the steel with some type
of fax. If electrically heated without an stmosphere control, protection is also
necessary.
Borax is applied by immersion in a water solution of barax, by sprinklin dry borax on pre-beated tools, by immersion in a liquid bath of molten borax,
I IF using a costing of borax on top of the molten lead bath where lead is used
for preheating. In some cases a regular air spray gun, containing a mixture of
bores and water, is used. The pieces are suspended by wires or books, which allows
this film to be deposited on them, sufficient to protect their surface. There are
also several commercial pastes on the market for providing surface protection.
Cities smong these is Sel-Car, made by the National Copper Paint Co. of Chicago, III.
This material has to be removed by sand blasting after hardening, wheress borax may
generally be removed by a water wash = by dilute acetic acid. Barely is sand
blasting necessary.
Several makes of atacaphare curtain furnaces now on the market provide
freedom from decarburisation when operated under ideal conditions, but they are
most successfully used when the work has am allowance in size for grinding after
hardening. There is also the Sentry Dismond block which is a carbonaceous receptacle
to be placed in the furnace which receives the material to be heated. Was heated,
the block throws off an atmosphere which protects the tools from decarburisation.
This method is usually used on small tools such as taps, thread chasers and small
trills.
242
-6-
Digest of No High Speed Steels
The salt bath is another means of bardening, which protects molybdenus
high speed steel from decarburization. Salt baths are generally beated by means of
two electrodes immersed in the salt. Barina chloride or some combination of barium
chloride and other salts are common. This method of hardening works out very well
provided the bath is given proper care. Sludge should be removed from the bottom
of the pot which, if allowed to remain, will cause pitting and decarburisation.
This sladge can be avoided to some extent by the use of silicate additions, a
patented process. The pot should be checked periodically and the necessary additions
sade. Care should be taken to keep work a safe distance from electrodes, otherwise
areing may occur between the tool and the electrode, causing fusing of the surface.
Tools hardened in the high temperature salt bath should be quenched in a beated
salt bath about regular draw temperature before the final quench in oil. By quench-
ing at this temperature, the high temperature salt is reduced to a point where it is
soluble in water, permitting easier cleaning.
Heat Treating
Aside from the desirability of protecting some molybdenus high speed
steels during hardening, important changes in the heat treating temperatures are
necessary. As a general rule, it will be observed that the optimum hardening
temperature decreases as the molybdenus content increases. The carbon contant and
variations in the remainder of the compositions also affect the hardening temperature
to am important extent.
While high speed steels will frequently be found to develop apparently
satisfactory hardness over a broad temperature range, it must not be concluded that
hardness alone will measure the performance of the tool.
Recomended temperatures for the various types follow:
Type
Preheat, F.
High heat for
2
s
4
5
1
1250-1500
1250-1500
1450-1550
1400-1600
1250-1500
2175-2275
950-1100
2150-2250
950-1100
2000-2100
1000-1100
2225-2325
975-1125
hardening, F. 2150-2250
950-1100
Draw, F.
The above are broad ranges. The actual temperatures must take into
account the size and shape of the tool, the extent to which toughness or extreme
hardness is desired, as well as the specific condition in any particular hardening
room. All of these types respond in a normal manner to sodified practices such as
double drawing, hot quenching, air hardening, hard casing, and quick annealing. On
drawing the steels respond with an increase in hardness of from 2 to 4 points
Bookwell C
Molybdenum high speed steels, like tungsten high speed steels, MUST BE
COOLED TO ROOM TEMPERATURE BEFORE BEING PLACED IN THE DRAW PURPACE if normal
response in regular practice is to be realised.
243
-7-
Digest of No High Speed Steels
Inspection
In the bardening room, inspection of some kind, however casual, is
employed. The hardener desires some assurance that full hardening without injury
to the tool surface has been effected. This requires knowledge of whether or not
significant scaling or decarburization has occurred and whether or not the desired
specific hardness has been attained.
File testing is still very widely used, either in conjunction with the
Rockwell test or alone. Even in cases where Rockwell hardness is satisfactory,
tools have been rejected by the file test because the Rockwell does not measure the
hardness of the extreme surface. In some plants file testing is used as the main
inspection until tools are finished ground, then they are checked to see if they
meet Rockwell specification. They are also file tested to check for grinding skin
which the Rockwell does not detect. The file test is useful so long as it is
regarded as qualitative. It is not a reliable method of measuring the extent to
which decarburisation has occurred.
In using the Rockwell test and in accepting the result, one should be
certain that the surface on which the test is made has been properly prepared. The
surface must be flat and free from scale. Also, the contact between the anvil and
the piece must be solid. As yet, no satisfactory substitute for micrographic
examination has been devised for determining decarburization quantitatively.
Grinding of Tools
Molybdenum high speed tools should be ground the same as 18% W tools
necessary. tool has
as far as shape is concerned. Overheating in grinding should be avoided, although
lubrication is not In fact, when free hand grinding is employed it is
just as well not to have a lubricant. Avoid cooling TOO DRASTICALLY. If
been discolored or heated in grinding allow it to cool normally in air.
244
-
Digest of Mo High Speed Steels
SECTION III
Recommendations on 6No-6W Balanced Ratio Type
The material in this section is not intended to convey any emphasis on
this steel. It is included since the merit of the composition was first recognised
at Climax and it is important to understand why and where it fits into the general
molybdenum high speed steel picture.
Primarily, 6Mo-6W high speed steel offers a molybdenum composition
much less susceptible to decarburisation than other molybdenum types. All those
familiar with it grant this improvement. Most concede it to be the equal of 18-4-1
in this respect. Secondarily, it offers a molybdenum high speed steel with better
cutting ability than any other steel in its immediate price range. (See chart,
Figure 1, showing red hardness values.) Thirdly, 6Mo-6T high speed steel offers a
molybdenum composition well suited to our economic situation from three angles:
a) It can be successfully treated in shops not now equipped, nor
not likely to be equipped in the near future, with modern
heat treating facilities.
b) It lines up well with the economic factors pertaining to the
supply of W and No in this country.
c) It does not restrict the producer to one type of scrap.
Whereas the several producers of Types 1, 2, 3 and 4 are as well
qualified to make definite recommendations regarding their various brands as are we,
with respect to 6No-611 we feel our information is founded as yet on wider experience.
The recommended practice for this composition is summarized as follows:
Composition
Carbon
Manganese
Silicon
Chromium
Molybdenum
Tungsten
Vanadium
Copper
.79 - .84%
.20 .50
.20 - .30
3.75 - 4.25
6.00 - 6.50
6.00 - 6.50
1.40 - 1.75
2.40 - 2.60 (optional)
Fabrication and heat treating temperatures
Forging and Rolling
Cogging
Rolling
Annealing
Probeating
Hardening
Drawing
2000 - 1850° F.
2000 - 1650
1500 - 1600
1500 - 1600
2260 - 2320(See Grain Size,Fig. 2)
1000 - 1100(See chart, Figure 3)
The typical structures of this molybdenum high speed steel are shown
in Figures 4, 5 and 6.
245
-9-
Digest of Mo High Speed Steels
Figure 1
-10-
Digest of Mo High Speed Steels
6% MO-6 % W
*****
ROOKWELL
ROOKWELL
ROOKWELL
ROOFWELL
--@@@@@@@
-
1
-
....
- HSHFF
are
WHO
and
Figure 2
246
247
-11-
Digest of No High Speed Steels
600
-
@@@
ESPECT
Figure 3
-2-
Digest of No High Speed Steels
Figure 4
620-61 High Speed Steel
from 1550°
Annealed
by slow cool F.
F.E.S. 223
X1000 etched in 10% Nital
249
-15-
Digest of Mo High Speed Steels
Figure 5
6Mo-6W High Speed Steel
Quench 2320° F., 4 minutes
at heat
64
Rc
3/8" section,
X1000 Etched in 10% Nital
-1:-
Digest of to High Speed Steels
Figure 6
6Mo-6W High Speed Steel
Quench 2320° F. Drawn
90 minutes at 1050° F.
Re 67
X1000 Etched in 10% Nital
251
-15-
Digest of No High Speed Steels
SECTION IV
Suggestions for Promoting the Case of Molybdenun High Speed Steel
There is available today sufficient background to permit us to maintain, without any apology, the position that molybdenum high speed steels are equal
in performance to tungsten high speed steels. There are two specific and direct
factors which should always be brought out.
1. Molybdenum high speed steel is cheaper per pound than the
equivalent tungsten high speed steel with which it competes.
2. Molybienum high speed steel is less dense than tungsten high
speed steel.
Example: Buying 1/2" square stock for tool bits, 4" long.
Base prices: 18-4-1
= 67d
MoMax = 54g
6-6 = 60
100# 18-4-1 at .963/ft. = 104 ft. = 312 hits = $67.00
100# MoMax at .875/ft. = 114 ft. = 342 bits = $54.00
100# 6No-6T at .892//t. 112 ft. = 336 bits = $60.00
With this introduction to the matter of price, the question of scrap
value will arise. Before the war of 1914 tungsten scrap was of little value. During
the war the scarcity of tungsten created a market for tungsten scrap when the steel
producers were forced to learn to use it. Molybdenum steels, increasing from month
to month, will soon put molybdenum scrap on the market in significant tomages. The
producer of steel already knows be can use it and already the price of McMax scrap is
as stable as, if not more stable than, the price of tungsten scrap. Admittedly,
tungsten scrap will carry a higher price than molybdenum scrap. In some quarters
this factor has been perverted to the argument that in the long run 18-4-1 costs no
more than molybdema high speed steel. When reduced to figures this argument
disappears as follows:
Example: It is required to purchase tools for a given job when no
scrap is on hand for credit purposes. The job requires
100# 18-4-1, 91/ MoMax, or 95# 6-6.
18-4-1 NoMax 6-6
0.60
0.67
Price per #
Cost of stock for tools
67.00
$0.54
49.00
56.00
After average life at equal performance 50% of purchased stock will
be used up or ground away. 50% will be available for credit on
new purchase. To replenish stock of tools to original number we
must again purchase 100# 18-4-1, 91/ MoNax, or 95 6-6, but this time
$56.00
we can obtain credit for scrap available.
$49.00
$67.00
.145
Price of stock for tools
Scrap value per #
Value of scrap
Net cost to replinish
.25
11.50
55.50
.125
5.70
43.50
6.75
49.25
ZUL
252
Digest of No High Speed Steels
-16-
It will be seen that the higher price of the tungsten scrap, plus the
fact that more pounds of tangsten scrap are obtained, has failed to upset the price
advantage which the molybdenum steels hold when no scrap enters the transaction.
The suggestion is made that whenever possible (and it is always
possible if the annual consumption of steel is known) the saving by using molybdenum
steels be based on annual savings rather than price per pound. Savings in thousands
of dollars hit home better than savings in teras of cents per pound.
Field of Contacts
1. Types of shops
a. Tool makers
b. Manufacturers who make their own tools
c. Steel producers
d. Tool users
Tool makers and manufacturers who produce their own tools are
especially interested in the price situation.
Tool users who do not make tools usually buy on performance basis. The
saving is not always passed on to them and they must be sold on the basis of superior
cutting quality. In dealing with this class one must always check both with the
user and tool supplier to be sure that the correct information is obtained.
2. Persons to Contact
a. Tool makersPurchasing agent
Metallurgist or superintendent
b. Manufacturers who sake their own toolsPurchasing agent
Tool supervisor (large shops)
Superintendent (small shops)
Production foreman
c. Steel Producers
Metallurgist
Salesmen
d. Shops buying on performance
Purchasing agent
Tool supervisor
Production foreman
253
-17-
Digest of No High Speed Steels
Obviously, hard and fast rules cannot be set down. Because our contact
is in the nature of missionary rather than direct sales work, the purchasing agent
should not prevent shop contacts. IF HE DOES, THE INGENUITY OF THE CONTACT MAN MUST
COME INTO PLAY SINCE THE SHOP CONTACTS ARE ESSENTIAL. It is taken for granted that
many PERSONAL FRIENDSHIPS will be cultivated to reach this end.
The good will of the tool steel mill must be maintained. We cannot
expect, however, that they will do our sales job. The advent of molybden steels
is really a serious problem with them. The faster it comes the worse off their
transition period will be. Primarily, the mill's job is to supply steel not to
specify it. Their problem is quite different from ours. By experiment the new comes
in and the old goes out. If we sell molybdenum to the tool users without losing the
good will of the producer the successful expansion of molybdenum high speed will
take care of itself. The natural factors of supply, price, and merit are in our
favor. The producers know this and will not resist it indefinitely. That they will,
if left to their own devises, proceed much slower than we desire is a foregone
conclusion.
NOTWITHSTANDING COMMERCIAL PUBLICITY TO THE CONTRARY THE TUNGSTEN
MARKET IS UNCERTAIN, AND IT TIES UP THE STEEL PRODUCERS CAPITAL IN A GAMBLE RATHER
THAN A SOUND INVESTMENT. WORLD CONDITIONS MAKE THIS AN OPPORTUNE TIME TO SUPPLANT
FOREIGN TUNGSTEN IN THE HIGH SPEED STEEL FIELD WITH MOLYBDENUM.
CLIMAX MOLYBDENUM COMPANY OF MICHIGAN
FLA-AJH
DOF
November 17, 1959.
254
March 25th, 1939
REPORT ON HIGH SPEED STEEL CONTAINING
85 MOLYBODYUN es TINGSTEN
The purpose of this report is to correlate the latest
information obtained in the development of a high speed steel
containing 6% No and 6% w, which information will be helpful
in determining the best policy for introducing this composition to the trade. The subject matter has been divided as
followes
1. Composition
2. Manufacture
3. Heat treatment
4. Cutting tests
5. The question of copper
6. The patent situation
7. Merit of the development.
COMPOSITION
The high speed steel discussed in this report falls
within the following composition limits:
.70 - .90%
Carbon
Manganese
Silicon
Molybdenum
Tungsten
Chromius
Vanadium
.20 .50
.20 - .30
6.00 - 6.50
6.00 - 6.50
3.75 - 4.25
1.00 - 2.00
A specific analysis, such as would be recommended by us
for ordinary small lathe tool service, is as follows:
Molybdanum
Tungsten
Chronium
.80
.25
.25
6.00
6.00
4.00
Vanadium
1.50
Carbon
Manganese
Silicon
As will be pointed out later, certain advantages can be
derived by the addition of 2.5% copper to this composition.
than copper is added, a range of 2.30 - 2.80 is acceptable.
The carbon content is the composition of a particular
heat should depend upon the type of service to which that
heat is put, and follows the same general carbon gradation
as is found when 18-4-1 is applied to different types of
service. In general, however, this molybdenum high speed
stool, like other molybdanum high speed steels, will carry
PAGE -2-
255
REPORT 6% ON MOLTBDENUM, HIGH SPEED 6$ STEEL TINGSTEN CONTAINING
a carbon content from 5 to 10 points higher than the straight
tungsten high speed steel with which it compares. There is
every reason to believe that the base composition will respond
to additions of cobalt to produce & so-called super high speed
steel, but this point has not been studied and is not covered
in this report.
MANUFACTURE
This high speed steel has been produced over a period of
eighteen months in the laboratory. The first heat in the
laboratory was made October 6, 1937. At no time during the
laboratory production of this material has there been any
evidence that its commercial production would involve practices
with which commercial mills are not already familiar and which
are not already regularly employed in the production of 18-4-1.
Shortly after our earliest laboratory work, several ingota
were made by the Ludlum Steel Company. These were from & 4000
1b. heat and the producer claimed that he realized 76% recovery
from ingot to 4" billet. The heat contained copper and due to
objections, of which we are all now well stare, in spite of
satisfactory cutting properties, no support was given to the
composition by this producer and no authoritative information
regarding the cutting characteristics was obtained until recently.
Connercial heats have been produced both with and without
copper. The latest consercial production has confirmed the fact
that entirely satisfactory recovery can be secured. A specific
example of the commercial sanufacture can be cited in the heat
sade by Latrobe Electric Steel Company for the Chicago Latrobe
Drill Works. This was a 2500# heat, produced in a one toc
direct are furnace (overcharging as is customary practice).
No change in furnace practice, such as nature of scrap, selting
time, melting temperatures, alag practice, teeming temperature,
or ingot sise was made. The composition of this best was
Carbon
Manganese
Silicon
Chromium
Molybdenum
Tungsten
Vanadium
.80%
.25
.22
4.06
6.38
6.51
1.58
The ingots from this heat were hameer cogged to 4.5 square
billets. Reliable information on the actual forging tesperatures
for the heat was not obtained, since it was produced before we
had time to go to the mill. (Forging tesperatures as high as
2100° F. are entirely safe, - in fact, saterial has been forged
in our laboratory at considerably higher temperatures, 2200° F.)
The recovery on the heat in customer sizes was 70%, which compares
with 18-4-1 recovery.
PAGE REPORT on HIGH SPEED STEEL CONTAINING
as 6% TUNGSTES
Further confirmation of the adaptability to commercial
practice is to be found in heats which were produced for Berry
Disston & Seas by Carpenter Steel Company. These 1000# beats
were produced in - induction furnace and contained copper.
Samples of these and all other bests commercially produced to
date which have been is our laboratory have been fully satisfactory from the standpoint of soundness and response to best
treatment. (For cutting quality see Tables later is report.)
HEAT TREATMENT
The heat treatment of 6 No - 6 . high speed steel involves
some temperature changes from that regularly used - 16-1-1.
The stock is successfully annealed to a Brinell hardness of
217 to 241 by a alos furnace coal from 1550° F. The extellent
structure of the smealed stock from a commercially produced
best is shown in Figure 1. In hardening, a probeating tempereture of 1500 - 1600 F. is recommended. The steel will respond
to quanching from a hardening temperature in the reage 2250 -
2850° F. is is coston in all high speed steel hardening, the
higher temperatures are used for heavier solid sections and the
lover temperatures for fine edged or intricately shaped tools.
No appreciable grain growth is encountered util temperatures
above 2325° F. are used. For example, quacching at 2820 F.
produced a grain sise of 15, at 2350° a grain size of 11, at
2375° a grain sise of 8. Since the hardening temperatures are
appreciably higher than those recommended for other types of
salybdesus high speed steel (Mollar about 2200° F.), the length
of time at quanching temperature is roughly equal to that of
18-4-1, which will be looked upon favorably by production tool
shape. The - coaching temperatures for 18-4-2 would be
about 25 F. higher. The fine-grained, uniform structure of a
properly quanched sample of this composition is shown is Figure
2. The response to drawing is substantially the same as that
of other high speed steels. A dres-tempersture-bardness curve
made in our Laboratory for the heat produced for Chicago Latrobe
Brill Yorks in above in Figure s, and the structure after & 1050 F.
dres appears in Figure 4. This structure abous excellent carbide
dispension and waffers development of artensite.
This steel should be heat treated in the same furnace
atmospheres and by the same practice as is found to give the
best results - 18-4-1, except for the recommended change in
coaching temperatures. The steel does not require borer, saltbaths, etc. for its successful handling.
256
PAGE
257
REPORT OR HIGH SPEED STEEL CONTAINING
es MOLYRDSNUM. 6% TUNGSTEN
CUTTING TESTS
The cutting characteristics of this composition have been
compared with costion grades of high speed steel available today
in a cetting test conducted at the Department of Engineering
Research, University of Michigan. The nature of the test and
the procedure followed are covered fully in the reports by
Prof. 0. F. Boston to the Climax Molybdenun Company, dated
December, 1938, February 27, 1989, February, 1989 and March 6,
1939, copies of which are attached. These reports present data
which permit the calculation of the permissible cutting speed
far a given tool life.
The relationship between cutting speed and tool life can
be stated by the simple formulas
VT = c,
L
where v is cutting speed in feet per sinute, T is the too life
in similas, and a and C are factors describing the tool in test.
C is a constant for any given heat of steel with a specific
heat treatment and for a standard tool shape. "n" is the slope
of the curve which becomes greater as the qualifications of the
steel far long service decrease. Values of a and C are determined
experimentally. Having determined them for each type of steel
submitted, the results can be presented in a very practical
form, a the cutting velocity for a tool life of, say,
8 hours. The equation is solved as follows:
1)
VIe =
Take logariths of both sides,
+
2) log log T = log C
3) log V - log c - a log T
V . antilog (log C - a log T).
Using this simplification, the results of the tests at
In Arber have been reduced to the following values, giving
cutting speeds for various tool steels at & tool life of
480 alastee, or eight hours.
258
PAGE -s
REPORT ON HIGH SPEED STEEL CONTAINING
6$ NOLYBDSNUM. 6$ TUNGSTEN
Permissible Cutting Speed for Eight Hour Tool Life
Type of High Speed Steel
18-4-2
10-1-1
Supplier
V
0
8
T
MA
Average
75.4
76.0
78.9
83.8
83.8
71.7
86.5
92.4
80.6
80.6
84.4
90.4
68.4
87.9
92.3
84.7
76.2
74.7
71.2
70.6
78.5
78.2
Koly-Yanadi
NoMax
79.6
82.
Laboratory Produced 6 Mo - 6 W
Heat 1651A
Heat 1658A
Heat 1655A
Heat P-119
Induction Furnace
Induction Farnace
Induction Furnace
Direct Are Furnace
108.4
104.1
102.8
81.1
SO#
80#
80#
180g
6 Mo - 6 W
Heat 1651B
Heat 16558
Heat 1655B
Heat P-118
Induction Furnace
Induction Furnace
Induction Furnace
90.1
101.9
99.8
77.2
50#
SO
sof
Direct Are Furnace 180/
-
Commercially Produced 6 Mo - 6 7
d) Latrobe Electric
2500#
a) Carpenter
1000
Gorham
Disston
Climax
Gorham
91.6 with copper
77.1
91.1
.
a) Indian
b Carpenter
4000#
1000#
Heat Treated
.
Sise of Heat
.
.
Manufacturer
95.3 no copper
Ludlum's DBL
Sise of Heat
Climax
SOF
Heat Treated By
Gorham
Indinn
82.3
77.5
Ludium
Because we have had access to all of the information and data
pertaining to these tests, we are bound to feel they are reliable.
These tests support the generally accepted opinion of the improvemeat which can be gained in 18-4-1 by increasing the vanadium to
18-4-2. They indicate that Helfax closely approaches the cutting
properties of 18-4-2, supporting the contention of Mr. Ensons that
PAGE &
259
REPORT 05 HIGH SPEED STEEL CONTAINING
6% HOLYBDENUM. 6% TUNGSTES
combinations of molybdenum and tungsten are better than straight
tungsten high speed steels. It is interesting to note the
uniformity of the results on 18-4-1 as compared with the other
types in the test. This is undoubtedly a reflection of the years
of experience which producers have had with this composition.
The values obtained on the soly-vandium type are an indication
that a straight solybdenun steel would be approximately equal
to 18-4-1 at equal V content and that the use of a higher
vanadium content increases its cutting ability to s point somewhat higher than 18-4-1.
The results on material produced in the laboratory are
given to indicate the quality of the steel which first drew
our attention. The tests on the consercially produced as No,
6% . confirm our prediction that the composition is better
than 18-4-1 but surprise us in that they are even better than
18-4-2. The value of 77.1 feet/sin. given under b) of
commercially produced 6% No - 6% . was obtained on tools which
were known to be treated at a cuenching temperature of 2250° F.
Tools from the same lot retreated at proper temperatures
(2320° F.) gave the value of 91.1 presented in c).
One of the most important conclusions which can be dream
from this work is that combinations of molybdenus and tungsten
are better than either straight molybdanum or straight tungsten.
No in the laboratory have been slow to subscribe to this opinion.
It was, of course, first suggested by Mr. Basons, but it appears
that Mr. Ensons did not select the optimum ratio of molybdenum
to tungsten. In the steel now offered by Ludlum, known as their
DBL, although we feel their total alloy content is such too low,
they are benefiting by the effect which is obtained when approxi-
sately equal percentages of solybdenus and tungsten are used.
The cutting speeds for 8 hour life given at the end of the table
support this statement.
THE QUESTION OF COPPER
Our emphasis throughout the work on high speed steel of the
decarburisation angle brought to light the fact that the addition
of copper to solybdents high speed steel eliminates the volatilization of molybdie oxide when the steel is at high temperatures and
in so doing fully protects the steel from decarburisation. It
is our belief that there will be some applications in which the
problem of decarburisation is so important that such a change in
the composition will be desirable. In those cases we see no
reason why the addition of copper to molybdenum high speed steel
cannot be recommended. We should frankly admit in these cases
that the introduction of copper will detract from the cutting
properties in the order of 5%, but that in spite of this reduction,
the steel will have cutting properties superior to 18-4-1.
PAGE -7-
260
REPORT - HIGH SPEED STEEL CONTAINING
es
THE PATENT SITUATION
It is our understanding that high speed steel expositions
containing aalybdama and tragsten which are not within the ratio
reages patested by and applied for by Breeler and containing
the equivalent of 18% transaster were disclosed in the Watertom
Aremal Work, but not patented by anyone.
If this is the case, the 6-6 high speed steel should be available to the trade without patent difficulties and the addition of
copper to such a steal is covered in the high speed patent which
we can. Evidence in support of this is found in the following
fastes
(1) Claims is our original patent application covering this
reage of tungsten and were rejected by the
Examiner.
(2) I disclosed compositions in this range but rejected
them - the basis of poor performance and did not patent
them. (ASM 1955, Pg. 211 and 219)
(s) The latertown Argenal work discloses the range. (PE. 6,
Table I, Batertown Arsenal, June 30, 1980 - 4.44 v, 7.06
No.)
(4) Brealer's alleged patent application avoids that range.
(ANN 1958 preprint)
(5) Climax filed with patent office & statement dated
November 2nd, 1957 disclosing as No -65%
MERIT OF THE DEVELOPMENT
It appears that we can say that with the acceptance of a
composition containing es No and as s, there will be available to
the high speed steel trade a composition not involved in patent
difficulties, free from the old problem of decarturisation, and
with the ability to out better than any straight tangsten high
speed steel of the same price class on the market. Judging by
the price agreed - between Latrobe Electric and Chicago Latrobe
Brill Testes, as No - as . will sell around 604 per pound base (present
price). It would line - with - grades as follows
see
Hollax
54
61-68
60
m
18-4-1
18-4-2
57-1/2
67
TT
CLIMAY I COMPANY OF MICHIGAN
BED
223
t No-6 T High Speed Steel. Annealed by slow furnace cool from 15500 F.
14.1. 11000 Itched in is Nital
203
262
no.2 6m6 Fo,VO4Section,
simules
at heat,
Be 64
22000 Blacked is 10% Rital
68
66
64
62
60
58
S6
200
400
600
800
1000
1200
DRAWING TEMPERATURE'F.
Fia. 3. HARDNESS - DRAW TEMPERATURE CURVE QUENCHED 2320°F
3/8 INCH SECTION, 4 MINUTES AT HEAT, R.C. 64. DRAW it HOURS
L-38
4-4-39
Illevated Temperature Hardness Tests
c4 *18-2-1° & 6-6 High Speed Steels
Impression suda with
taigsten carbide ball
x = Ladly is's III High Speed Steel (18 W, 4 Cr, 1 7)
Latroce's 6-6 Eigh Speed Steel 1.80 C, 6.38 Mo, 6.51 B,
4.06 C. 1.58 Y, No Can
1200°
11000
Temperature OF.
1300°
Fig. 4. 6 -6 , High Speed steel. (received 23009 F. the - Vinutes it
1050° F. Rc 67
11000 - Itched is 10% Sital
NING and
V ETALLURGY
E
JULLIVA
Independe
CENTERIN
Insures Fast
More Economic
CUT COSTS
ON POWER FOR FLOTATION WITH
PAN-AMERICAN'S DEEP
TO 1/5
MULTI-STAGE FLOTATION MACSION
Loading 1 Und
all Condition
Sullivan loader showing rugged
piping.
ILLIVAN
HINERY COMPANY
for
PAN-AMERICAN ENGINEERING COMPANY
CLAREMONT
STREET,
BERKELEY, CALIF,
U.S.A.
MINING
-
UNDER MINE
and
METALLURGY
268
Registered . . Patient
DRILLING COSTS
Contents
with
SECTION ONE
NICKEL
263
AMERICAN
INTERNATIONAL NICKEL COMPANY INC. 67 WALL ST., NEW YOR
L
May
MEEHANITI
CASTINGS
DENVER ENGINEERING
ANNOUNCING
GARDNER-DENVER'S IMPROVED 3 DRIFTERS
MODEL AF-89H-AUTOMATIC - FEED
MODEL D89-BH - CRANK FEED
DESIGNERS
OF
IMPORTANT
CONSTRUCTIONS
Uniform solidity and
Cast
and
Freedom from Internal Strains and
Local Planes of Weakness.
Free Machining.
Dependable Engineer
Properties.
BUY FROM THESE LICENSED MANUFACTURERS
ANNIVERSARY
GARDNER-DENVER -
00
MAKING A GOOD AGITATOR BETTER
CLASS
MINING and
270
METALLURGY
MAY. 1939
Papers and Publications
NEW FEATURES OF THE
modern DORR AGITATOR
1
2
Membership
New
York
1
2
3
3
THE
plus
DORR570COMPANY
Lexington Ave., New York
INC
ENGINEERS
CHICAGO
DENVER
LOS
237
271
Payment
York
Prices
slump
1932.33
of
metal
They
industry
effects
of
sup-
of
with
fact
Copper, and petroleum rival
contrasts
significant
ratios
the
end
the
respect
products.
that
each for the wide range of
may
1932. Copper jumped
current
of
for
1914
5 to more than 16
the
from less than 30
four
the
$1.16: and tin from less
lead,
than 70 cents. Ap
generally
They
climbed
parently petroleum is today under
declined
1937.
then
began
that,
truth
metal
Violing
aluminum
during
of
238
including
barrels
sluggish
producing
MAY -
re-
world
1914.
today
quantity
than
demand
The
only
price
spent half hour
advising young engineer who
In
elder
produce
pound
per
fact
long ago distinguished
NoT President of the Institute
particularly,
copper
but
unjustifi-
prices
The
that
proves
this
that
iron,
Some
cheaper.
that
steel,
Student Problems
cent
10
and of busi
profile
others.
25
On
published
383,000,000
lead
and
substantial
coincidental
than
1934:
better control than either of the
Tin
higher
for about
plan?
remarked that the advice
sufficient
worth
did
metal
approximately
the student: i.e., nothing.
selling
that
lower
response
statesman
than
that
With this preface we will essay
239
least comment on, five
engineer
propounded by two Stu
residing
dent
that
Germany's Drive for
leaving
first
115
experience
The
the
Gilman
The
gradua
chance
of
god
usually
Mineral Self-Sufficiency
question Often the
future?
eye
individual
This
future.
"best
the research type of
one who will become expert
exclusive
mutually
future
profitable
relatively narrow technical field
than the one who will
have
more
The
manage the enterprise. This
promot
that of the former
have
independent
as
finance.
going on. Specialization fits
material
Still
much
so
broader conception
and
engineers
not
is
where be fits best.
Does
does
or
around
him
arises
question
the
272
quite
consulting engineers. However,
either of these
halls
of
learning
for
dwindling On the other
hand,
mining
the
to
engi
United States?
For the reason that mining
administrators
and
many parts of the world
financed by American
of corporations Gen
the best path to this
typically,
manager.
the
successful
The
Highly
tech
MAN AND METALS
ETAL was first accidentally
smelted at some time is the
past. We, who look back
be paid for foreign service
nical
this country proves that foreign
With the smoke of that
not attractive
campfire there rises the
A who has
unbeliev
years in foreign
bridges thrown over gulfs
of steel reads that then
acquired asset that
him to command better pay
foreign country than he could get
home. Consequently it frequently
with the traffic of continents
whispering wires that flash the
of the day around the earth
other metallic threads that
happens that he spends his entire
career outside the United
(and
men
few
bring the energy of the mountain
into the innermest chare
Nine out of ten are likely
other
mining
the
take
industry
the tallest tree, of machines
that By above the mountain crests
thread the clouds of Heaves
better in career in the U.S.
courses,
than
engineer
of that brought man from the
of the jungle into the
glory of the sunlight. from
into civilization
the
in
his
that breathe
the
graduates
that
this
to
this:
Take
the
that
question
description
require
win
your
much
philosophy,
social
of
can
manage
The
expression,
of
the
achiev
miner who supplies him
psychol
science,
finance, and business administration
you
of
entry
metallurgist and, ind cly.
engineering
His
prepared
and
absolute
and
Italy
of storied buildings that
of wives) can adapt
foreign environment
special
the
the dim vista of the ages
astenished at the conse
than for comparable positions
anything
Building
large panel bearing the
inscription:
to go abroad in minor
more important positions The
that, in general, higher salaries
friends
and
the entrance to the Mining Es
hibits
San Francisco's World's
rations, there always will be
for American mining
execu-
tive
A
conducted by American
the
are shift boss, fore
that
Metallurgy
top
The
from
"Man
with
quotation
Metals."
higher
volume work of one of the
241
basis for Honorary Members
240
MINING AND METAL
IGT
273
GERMAN MINERAL CONSUMPTION AND
conts Then followed import-export
license requirements, foreign ex
PIG IRON
IRON ORE
change controls bilateral trade agree
and 24 of siling and preparations
production and not imports of essential mission 1936-38
CHROMITY
ORE
being 20 million
in metric form
NICKE
ID
-
- and direct subsidies to the
domestic producers Such regulatory
greater in Germany
and
The
south
Production
Imports
Net
Protoctive
No
importal
are
imports
See
for their existence
LOUGE
exchange
14,346,300
With few exceptions, Germany de
LEAD
ZINC
COPPER
TIN
17.65
a
LEG
large part of her mineral require-
(2)
1,254
301,880
187,530
onal and potanh which abundant
72,615
136.423
Germany. and magnesite, talc
graphite, china day. and radium in
Austria and Caechoslovakia, now
99,300
06,730
en
144,96
CL964
126,374
0
within her borders This dependence
Insured by the
German chemists who have made it
123,450
50,000
941,131
12,03
LIGNITE.
COAL
00
CRICE OL
GASDLINE
4,017
95,300
ANTIMONY
143.38
LCS
(9)
LISTING
HIRE
1,212,754
LIMITED
0
PHOSPHATE
MAGNESITE
SULPHUR
POTASH
GRAPHIT
-
LESS
LSC
of
tons
of
124
1,99,03
23,544
4C,345
of
reduction
the
for
-NUC
Line
At
ms
of
on
Salaburg
between
and
street plant is being
the Hermann Goering A.G.
LINE
DUE
21,081
construction
the
11,540 Brassest acid proc
LISA
450,000
L6C
shown
the
from
the
I dependent upon
Brawer Co. which .
LANDRE
1,000,000 of pig
coming
are
LIC
LCS
1,405,297
largely
Enberg mine Austria
partly from mines in Bavaria It
present
The
industrial
dent
and
Germany
much progress her attempt
domestic output of iron
tained from the adjoining states in
Europe from the former
Goering July. 1937.
the
study of the mineral
The
and
including Austria and
part of greater
five central
Hun
Bulgaria, and Yugo
comprehensive
figure
an I-time with
working at about full caper
states and barter-trade
from
for outside purchases -
the
also are being made
Great
the
The tendency any in
required
rather than upward
products.
The accompanying chart and statis
of
The
tical table showing the average
production and consumption
Yugo
of the essential raw minerals from
1936 1938 will help one to visual
cop
and
Germany's
the
future
present
predicament
possibilities
within
-
re-exported in manufactured
Germany's effective a
capacity is the restricted
according to estimates
Germany's large
about
imports of pig iron.
figures to follow
domestic
The
for
think
steel
which
1,106,000
activity in the exploration
dip
develop
To
mining
these
the
that
Beint
compared with 33
for domestic production
the
MINING AND META
RG
and
be
The
works
the
to
Ersberg
million
for
to
taking.
of
mises
the
plans
and
increase
producfrom
mine
The
toms.
Hermann
of
are
iron
of
made
being
product
depth
originating in the United
of Austria's incorporaGermany. there has been
aditic
beds
that goes
50
scrap
and
scrap
1987. that the total
over
military
stocks they obviously can
from
50 Imports of
GLANCE the chart
-
arma
for
as
more the as in 1929. Be
production
Problem in Metals
German
from
used
1902 amounted to but a quarter
her total production from
lacks adequate foreign
South American
France.
statistics but street
but E - questionable whether
capacity can be maintained
penetration in the central Earn
the
purchase
to
materials So far as these
ins from domestic ores
figures
essential mineral products, by
proving methods of exploitation
imports. Economic as well as politic
Ramin
currency
also increased rapidly. product
by finding satisfactory substitutes
few
state
steel
of
supply the all-important
Germany
from the accompanying
exports
greater
ship
never-cess
also
There
large
and 30 build up steel production
calories Africa
has
highway
production
That
1936-1938
these deficiencies may be of
activity
hich levels because
Percentage
imports Some writers state that
and
1,000,000
operation is 1940
pro
handicapped
total
planned that this plant will also
cost. will
Poland
for
steel
with
Brawert Co. of London
LD
oc
Austria
Including
that Germany's
plan an extremely
242
wilk
of
eight
have
even
coke
LINJC
LOUIS
CLASS
1,013,928
24,290
from newspaper reports.
from Yugonlavia
1.125,153
1,060
from the writings of some econ
States
74.78
of
-
(")
149,001
15,000
rapidly attaining self-sufficiency
United
1,324,706
330,000
ROCK
will
64,300
LON
102,104
339,176
her people, to believe that she
Britain,
528,865
444,963
BAUXITE
the
of
middle
the
by
256,352
IS
-1,444.63
160,774,036
IDD
units
LINE
127,300
inspection
as
140,876
FINING
43,300
194,379,798
Germany would like the world
supplied
-
IC.C
1,543
tracted from coal
by
SURE
294,500
2020
(1)
imports of crude petroleum and
with
40
-- -=
and
- planned to complete the
128,000
obtained from the air and to re
that
14.29
144
8
gasoline by synthetic products ex
immensity
The
this undertaking can best
PYRITE
natural nitrates by substituting nitro-
encourages
1,90
BLEN
2,300
possible reduce the imports of
34,215
L2N
with
Mindland Canal 10 miles
DIA
am
no
4.726
ments These exceptions chiefly are
CLIX
the
may
ALUMINIA
00
works
361,114
12,364
230,000
20
canal
ROUN
18,464,632
11,800,179
pends countries for
connected
being
of adequate foreign credits
6
countries and one of
Goering
Alpine
two
Reich
now
Montan
30
243
274
Gesellschaft, which are to supply the in Greece, which are owned
are to the new blast furnace plant Greek company. These sources could
eventually
these mines
by
under construction at Linz It has supply Germany with only about 20
interest
controlling
cent of her requirements.
in
Austrian
to
by expansion in
it is probable that Ger.
cent
Moravia, and Slovakia, Germany ac
quires output of about 1,700,000
iron, and numerous steel
will have to import about
1,500,000 of iron ore besides
Manganese Germany has no im
manganese ore but rather large re-
and the ores of the
over
Efforts being made to
of these districts,
believed that they can supply
than 30 per cent of the
Present
production
about
these
of
20
cent
per
Canada, with a small amount from
Burma, and the metal came from
recently been completed At Ran
Tungsten Germany has no
Imports
are
are published Several thousand
of alloy metals containing tungsten,
usually
low
domestic ores covers about 60 per
of consumption Besides
cent
concentrates
zine
south.
annual
an
is
output of about 90,000 tons of mixed
lead-zine
im
there
the
are
New
zine-producing
have been built at Magdeburg
chromite
years
chromite
only
imports.
chromite
those
by
British
capital,
imports.
in
largely
con-
and
those
in
the
Trepca
slavia,
to
be
half
only
Balkana
Mining
where
built.
the
of
The
the
Co.
Any
in
new
developmines:
should
and
metal
zinc
mines
those
of
southern
rine
quirements from this source. A new
imports are from China Both
in manufacture of bearings,
Crechoslovakia and Yugoslavia
cluding
deficiency
zinc
the
and at Goldberg near Breslau, where
the reserves are said to be great The
from Rhodesia. Congo.
United
States, Chile. and Yugoslavir
Yugo
slavia
has
Balkans
the
which
of
get
from
only
the
10
this
Germ
year.
cent
of
about
her
requi
Box
18,000
-
ments
centers:
lead.
per
0.04
and
mines
said be extensive though
dustrial
of
Tin
large
the
delivered
to
is-
many
use.
for
by
these
At
are
and
mines
coatings
by
at
plants
because
of
and
list
the
which
highly
built
tries
includes
oils.
chemical
and
statistics are not available. There
coking
large
Balkan
the
in
plants
There
cellulose
acid-resisting
tin
ERMANY'S
have
upon
am
shown
Pro
from
States, and Germany depends entire-
and
Italy and Spain for imports
the
brown
Rhineland
rely on imports. Efforts to revive
orations the old tin mines in the
production
Ergebirge being made, and
last
of
both
three
From
coal
and
increasing
and
Germany
There
the
lignite
and
coal
central
any other of the less common
perators have been subsidized by
gas
many
of
by
quicksilver year production
for
plants
plants,
Net Exports of Coal
mercury mines in the Balkan
indus
the
superfluous
lines
the
in
coking
using
deliver
to
power
being
replaced
being
plate
built
the
have
mod
and
plants
power
and
in
mining
the
methods
were
lignite
electric
largely
This
the
Bingen to treat 200
day of ore from near-by de
MAY 1939
MINING AND META URGY
Central
railway
used
successful
calcium,
In 1935 plant was built at Ober-
its tin supply.
for
mines
materially
improved
been
and
1000 tons of mercury year.
source.
244
those
been
substitutes
find
to
underground
transportation
Netherlands
the
98.6
amounts, and it is possible that Germany could get about one-half of her
requirements from these countries.
Germany consumes
tals Germany depends almost en-
cop
namely,
produces
metal
per
large
Efforts
small
0.5 per cent in mercury
This plant may yield 100
domestic ores average about 3 per
cent copper, whereas the imported
concentrates contain 12 to 18 per
cent. Metal imports have more than
Yugo-
of
mine.
port antimony in relatively
from
intro
transport
and
duced in the surface mines, and
metal
the
to get about 10 per cent of her
the
smelter
Bolivia,
loading.
largely
are
whereas
imported
ly
ore
imports
ore
Great Britain
doubled since 1936. These are large
sup-
operates
These
plates, bearing and type metal. and
solder. About 80 per cent of these
be
Poland
large
are
a
Africa
at
Germany
of
about
The
progress
in
but
extensive
and
is
Oker,
Better methods of mining.
greater production of
mine. Other low-grade bedded cop
deposits are being developed
Reichenbach southeast of Mansfeld
quirements. The metal output from
berg.
distribution
improve
but
smelter
tin
only important lead mines in the
which is heavily subsidized by
State, and from the Rammelsberg
re-
notable increase in imports in 1938
helps
the
for
lignite
and
and efficiency of their
Balkans, and Germany may be able
largely from the Mansfeld
metals
may eventually produce in quantities
large enough to meet domestic
ranging from 15 per
These
nonferrous
the
terial
munitions manufacture and
Copper-Germany's mine product
tion represents about 15 per cent of
total consumption This output comes
zine is the only one that Germany
being in Crechoslovakia
The
Germany
however,
lead refineries in Germany. The
due in part to the expansion of
lead smelter is being built in Yugo
slavia to smelt the Trepca ores
or
coal
limited
hard antimonial lead is made at the
incentive
the
cent
and scrap. A small output of
consumption. The are
-
The
entirely on imported regulus, matte.
and Belgium Yugoalavia has the
tons
Government
the
de
posits of antimony ore and depends
her present annual imports of Int
in
Re
for power transmission
Antimony Germany has no
duction, Germany expects to reduce
pro-
German smelters, 1000 to 2000 tons
of the metal are imported each year,
but neither the tonnage nor sources
Of
Romania Hungary CzechoYugoslavia. the largest
South
of lead year. Thus, by Government
financial aid to encourage lead
those of the metal Mexico
chiefly
small manganese
Germany,
melsberg in the Harz unditer
chiefly on China for her imports
in
heavier metals, notably copper and
nickel in armament manufacture, in
the transportation industries includ
ing dirplanes and automobiles, and
has been built to produce 20,000
duction of tungsten ore and depends
produced
Balkan States.
Africa and British India
silicon, is rapidly replacing the
ports are largely from Yugoslavia
Newfoundland, and Australia and
are
Aluminum, combined with copper,
magnesium, zine, manganese, and
plant to treat 600 day
of
control of large deposits
both in Hungary and Yugoslavia and
important
both
and lead ores from 66 50
only
is
per
imports from them.
the output of highgrade
with
be assured, as Germany has
her metal imports are relatively
important
and rinc has been
and vanadium are also
imported each year, as none of these
of
district
Nickel ore was imported in 1938
from the Netherland Indies
and
Besides this ore, which is reduced
12
Ruhr
the
deposit
siderite ores in Sieger
land per cent manganese
which
Atalenti in Greece: these are
nickel-bearing iron ores, and Germany has been getting part of her
of manganiferous iron
future bauxite imports, these
imports show a large increase
posits in the Balkan States are those
portant deposits of commercial-grade
coming from France and Greece.
60 tons of lead is expected Mize
over, at the Augustus Victoria
and Canada The only nickel de-
steel plants.
about 10 per cent each, the
37
lead
output
Great Britain, United States, Norway,
scrap to feed these blast fur-
only
ore,
suitable substitute for nickel, but
By the annexation of Bohemia,
output
domestic
A new concentrating plant
lished. Efforts are being made to find
Austria
of
65 per cent of the bauxite im
and the Netherland Indies and
greater
built at Mechernich Aaches
treat
3000from
tons day low-grade
lead
Production statistics are not pub
000 which is consumed in
been
mine
Saxony, but its output is relatively
unimportant. Germany has nickel
smelters and refineries at Franken
stein and at Schwerte in the Ruhr.
requirements of iron are by
trolled
substantially
have
ing nickel mine, at Frankenstein,
1,000,000 tons of iron content, be
maintaining the present Aus
trian pig iron output of about 450,
Germany is used in the cement
Hungary and Yugoslavia
put
of both lead are metal
increased
Nickel Germany has one produc-
be to reduce her out-
The small output of bauxite
encouraging than that
if other sources were shut off.
iron
hich is made from imported
Lead- The lead
As
the principal teel-manufacturing Turkey, it is questionable whether
plants Austria. By pushing Germany could depend on this source
these
Germany ranks first
be
orld producer of aluminum, all
8
acquired
may
has
been
lignite
coal
during
years
1919
to
1932
Germany
the
industry
have
an
important
bearing
Germany trend toward an indus
trially independent nation
245
275
about 180,000
States Belgium, and Des
the total production
is
decreased
future
production
from domestic
The German graphite
to less than
of
deposits
where
and
of
eastern
to
whereas
trade with the Balkan States
and
mineral
product
graphite
raw
cent
95
to
which
about
tomage
graphite
was
States
the
required
and
Get
by
products,
chromite.
oil
recently
lead
that
country
exports
40
Germany
produces
most
the
for
exchange.
In
part
Germany
from coal gas,
Some Nonmetal Available
lignite
Magnesite Germany's
gasoline plants. The
Silesia near Frankenstrin
Pyrite- Large quantities of pyrite
used in Germany for the
of sulphuric acid and by
the object being to
and reduce
deposits
relations,
in
the
develop
United
Ger
Palestine,
and
trade
potant
furnaces
blast
the
pig
that the Austrian
Germany
iron.
pyrite mines,
controlled Germany,
be eliminated and Co
Meggen
mine.
faced
but
with
expand
trying
about
forget
not
Czechonlovakia
Spain
exceptionally
followed
Phosphate rock Three
Cyprus: small reserves
rock are being
to meet Germany
federal
agent,
who
for
export
Yugoslavia would not
16c.
barter
exchange
this
skilled
Conclusion
Important
for
portion of phosphorus
foreign
becoming more
princi
mineral raw materials
from the statistics Mines formerly
the steel furnaces
principally from northern
abundaned and mineral deposits
United States No
worthless are
The
often regardless of cost.
Balkan States
2,500,000
Because
the export of foreign
Government leaders
of
of potash in the United
Russia, Spain, and
When
production
55 per cent of the
Prices for international
regulated by . European
has
being
its
syndikat,
Berlin
Alcohol
30
headquarters
the
la
raw
Political aspects That Germany
Germany
1938
that
the
the sulphuric acid plants
imports
divided between Austria Cown
EPENDENCE
Forrign
the
and paper
the roasting
United States, Germany
largest consumer of
Italy, Belgium,
markets
machinery
Spain
this industry have been
the Schlesische Magnesit
principally
coke.
the
in
sulphur
garten, and Zobten Operations
exports
Social
imported largely from
United States and Italy. There
magnesite deposits
Germany's
chemicals
gas
German
Germany
Ge
greater capacity to
and
for
greater industrial power.
number of financed
metallurgical companies
de the desire to nationalize
industry
because
actual control by
replaced by Gov
ment Such control how
per
which
246
MINING AND MET
247
276
What's Right With Coal
HERE are a lot of good things
Let - stop
- of the things that
Charles Camsell
IROM birth, Charles Camel
life has typified everything the
leads a boy, imboed with
spirit of adventure, to decide
come a geologist or mining engineer
His father was a chief factor of the
services
and
existence
their
owe
brick
glass,
cotton
he had a B.A. from Manibal
University, and the next 25 years
cement,
wood
have
coal forms the basis for more than
100 of its commercial products No
major
sources of the industry. Govern
(all ranks) of the United
the Michigan foundries that
ufacture the cylinder blocks and cer-
3212 billion tons. To bring
this
Athabaska At that time the
and the indispensability
greater. perhaps, than that
and
gas
extinct.
the
and
of
Minister of the Department of Mino
any
things
allow
After
years.
In 1920 be was appointed Deputy
by
pres-
tion.
washeries, by a single producing com
of
are factors that ensure stability
of
region was largely unmapped really wild, occasional Hadver's
Bay posts the only eases of dute
other
which
industry
These
pany in the southern fields This only one of a large number of concerns in the industry that have made
similar
improvements
fuels
to
day offer better quality and satisfac
tion than was ever before possible
More
The
gas
Solid
them
Passburgh
eighty
great
different
plant
coal
and Resources of the Dominion and
2000
Commissioner of the North West
Territories that area of 13/2 nike
plainly
square miles which be understood -
well. In 1935 he covered 25,000
be
to
and
square miles by plane the -
to
eastern section of that region
vestigate and photograph blank
still remaining on the map.
bitum
of
years
Dr. Cameell's field experience
been supplemented by
has
million
421
to the U. Bareau
courses at Queen's Harvard -
value
Mines
Lab
of
and
mine
$750,000,000 On
had
tinctions, such as the
several technical
medals Probably
three
than
of
Coal
known in Canadian mining
than he. not better liked He
delivered
.
given
I.E.
preparation equipment, including
Let agree that our bountiful coal
the
Michigan
bright
installation of mechanical mining and
other automobile parts
figure
to
ing practice is the recent completion
of $3,000,000 program involving the
is known for the coke used
geologists estimate the total coal
Lake Great Bear Lake, Coppermiar
River, Moose River, Peace River the
from three
clean and permanently dustless
having been thus treated at the mines
good example of improved min-
One chemical company reports that
the
at
Mackenzie River. Great State
Director,
and . wider selection of
ever before. To top it off.
be retailed that scrupe
coal in the great chemical industry.
spent pioneering in geological a
M. I. T. He has
receiving today purer coal
Besides being converted into energy.
hundreds of products are derived
touch
ploration in the Canadian Northwest
y
market Retail coal mer-
sents only one seam of coal
lime.
and
cleaning plants prepare the pro-
the world has yielded. This
Hudson's Bay Co. when Charles
born at Fort Laird, in the southern
ern corner of Canada's North Fee
Territories, 63 years ago. At eight
remove the coal from
and huge factory like tipples
any other single mineral deposit
coal
to
Practically all the important materials
steel
the order of the day. Mar
prices, represents a greater value than
materials
objects
and preparation of the pro-
land, and West Virginia has
produced an output that, at
In
indispense
constantly
F
adoption of mechanical equipment
than the coal industry. Mechanical
the Pittsburgh coal bed in the four
states of Pennsylvania Ohio, Mary
Ederally
coal.
any industry in the development and
Pittsburgh coal bed states that "From
basic
other
advances have been made by
Howard N. Eavenson's book on the
civilization
of
within the last few years in the
reserves. The opening sentence
one in the basic
is
GREAT strides have been made
mining and preparation of real No
is this business
Our
Mining Practice
Fuel Engineering Division
Coals Inc.: Member A.I.M.E
is
T
By J. E. Tobey
about this great industry of
the
greatest
the and the
52
of
the
charm and pleasing
ways
assure
him
249
MINING
AND
circulation in the business
Fuel-burning Equipment
the equipment
typical
fact
the
277
have
discovered
that
competition
trable
profitable
combination
Progress in
The
pulverized
coal-firing
years
and
Combatting
received
especially
probably
work
of
found
In
going
accepted,
238
ticularly
Bareau
parently
agency.
It
adapted
for
the
of
lignite.
amounted
fuel
1937
$184,736
Of
great
of
course,
the
that
has
phenomenal
taken
place
of
and
pertaining
coal
domestic
the
of
350,000
Research
United
States
and
300,000
the
number
products
stoker
of
This
this
of
of
retail
by
industrial
manufactured
companies.
of
these
1937.
Ap
stokers
has the for
devoted
look to the future
coal
and
optimism
the
organiza
still continuing their
vestigations, began near Joplin,
years
The
with the industry today
Work
also
card,
than
Toronto,
physicists,
slower.
various
strive
well
during
promises
to
burn
be
Air
Switzerland
the
Study
to
of
and
discussion
the
the
of
deal.
provid-
thou
Three
the
Library
reality
did
However.
problem
whether
bearing
the
called
articles
clinical
discuss
to
the
of
and
1930
promising
Public Relations
EOPLE
the
the
development
1930
the
United
and
coal
four
heat
can
follows: Committee on the
be
tell
of Silicosis Through Engineer
Control Committee on Regula
health
and
the
pub
Phases,
this
year's
Economic, Legal.
chairs
designing
merchants,
H.
F.
Architects
the
Control, Committee on
what
comfort,
of
The
and
ention of Silicosis Through
coal
coal
Office
Silicosis
1936
State
dollar
Labour
the
under
that
South
Labor
VERAGE
other
by
Coal
and
future
that
The
being
From
forth
view
individuals
countries
and
for
065r
Labour
Hygiene
dation
and by support
new
Har
two
Coal
faster
being
universities,
Rochester.
as
in
geologists, the paleobotanists
petrographers,
Government
but major factors
Fortifying this great industry
This
to be learned regarding
this industry, and
the
and
by
dustry
field,
organization being
practical problems
industry.
the
proximately
this
appears that things
are
By R. R. Sayers
to
almost everyone Yet,
spite of a great of study,
S
Carnegie
and
Inc.
known
ILICOSIS
the
Technology,
approximately
latter
other
Inc.,
of
proof
A Summary of the Recent Geneva Conference
producer
industry
through
production which been labeled
dustry.'
of
expenditure
Its
testing
has
other
any
burning
Silicosis
proj.
Mines
of
had
vious
on
1937
it
has
ago,
surprised
be
Het
Beitler
Phases.
c. MacQui
Stillwell W. A. Welcher
MINING AND METALLUR
The
of the and engineering
reports
which
251
MAY.
278
Do Our Mineral Industries Schools
Give an Engineering Training?
William R. Chedsey
R. Chedday
easy established by the E.C.P.D.
depends upon many of the phys
Central Committee on Accrediting of
reached
This
properties of metals. Here
degree
typical exam
laboratory
tech
279
re
decided that they
such
for
expres
rather
that
usually
All teachers,
things
for
civil,
electrical
and
described
engineering
though basic physics
neglected, it is incumbent
mineral
the
in
further
develop
make
expected
of
attention
passing judgment upon the
the
should
prob-
it
worked
into
this
the
from civilization, and that
broad
engineering. At that time,
frontiers
traveling
by
E.C.P.D. in the profes
engineering
hundred
physics.
and
during
of
electricity
the
mining people. Here again
desirable for the metallur
programs to be strengthened
Petroleum
Engineering geology is so vitally
physics
examination of site for
with
the
safety
with
ramifications
should
geologists
all
generally
being
Perhaps
other
that
urge
study,
of
Gold Output and Dividends of Canada
and the World
think
that
prospect,
called
but
of
that
of
are
be
in
and
the
light
of
is
the
physical
in
geological
gives
certainly
whether
standing,
engineering
group
anybody's
imagiphysical
metallur-
the
has
than
therefore
power
which
this
that
few
Telegraph
need
for
years
per
famous
physic
ago
pound
engineering, and this
branch
of
physics
all
engineer
have also metallurg
application.
lustration
Metal
the
prob
Also
could
not
engineer
of
how
engi-
an
or
of
geo-
inter-
map
it
investigators
engineering
or
of
in
as
Certain
per
re
calcu
with
along
prob
pass
the
of
Inclusion
that
of
of
wherean
62/3
engineer
the
physics
type
vield
world, the of 106
petrography.
of
1939)
The
Cana
the
to
per
(March
of
application
investigators
6.93
By Arthur Notman
of
10
heat
Ontario
Lake
the
factor
world,
Kirkland
with safety, where
engineering
of
engineering
already had attention
the
of
with
have followed along
up
all
been
has
electrical
course
hour.
then
This
include
to
called
miles
is
basic
and
engineering and ceramic engi
knowledge of many fields of science
world
established
cost
to
in mechanical and electrical
have
course,
paid
application of economics than
engineering Our civil engineering
qualitative conditions
of
attention
done
be
industries
This conception was that
mining graduate might work
reactions
This,
this
of
isolated sections, possibly far
contribution to the
might
mineral
England, later adopted in this
educators in the minquantitative
developed
in Germany. France,
thought
can develop
of
back
go
conception
natu
can
of
geology
industries
of
which
is
mineral
that
also
and
stimulate
it
calcu-
not
Coast
$349,330,124
by civil, mechanical, and
dividends
1938
of
General
value
Motors
of
the
Corp.
about
255
MAY.
MINING AND METALLURG
market
total
Manchuria,
trical engineers.
254
today.
Africa,
dend
OUTPIT 138 Devenso Sextames
the
Number
SALTEL
One Toe
Mining
Conference in New
ons
Market
1938
ersey. June 24 to July 3
Gold
The
sage
$3,834,150
sucie
$1,126,463,000
10,538,062
534.239.000
10,856,511
446,103,000
75,218,729
11,839,677
3,211,300
2,530,274
$2,152,974,000
Camp.
17,570,651
In
130
1909
This
19,166,044
land
Canada
slightly
that of the gold group.
of
earning
this
developed
the Rand gives total market value
of $1,374,000,000 and dividends of
$93,600,000
with
Hudson Bay Mining
Smelting Howe Sound Brittania
Beach). Consolidated Mining and
Smoking International Nickel Gran
Normetal and
Waite Amulet are included the
only extends back to 1900
of the Gold Coast in
included
group
risk
Canada
detail
dividend-paying
Canada
$1,764,000,000
of
the
dividend payers through
represent filters
Twelve of these
twenty years
drv statistics
Metallurgical Engineering
of
Ontario,
000,000 and then paid dividends
of
figures
straight
about $1,230.
315,719 northwestern Ontario
$8,384,000
operations
favors
British
Porcupine
Kirkland Lake $137.
growth
market value of three base
the
follows:
International
of
of the total The
value
from gold mines On
1939 was $300,112
added
straight accounting for
Canadian opera
and northwesters On
1934 The total
placed be the public
1938 thus with the forty
tions
This grand total
kr
reach $1,000,000
the
measure
public
Research Institute
1912 is Kirkland Lake in 1915,
vieid
the
Industrial Laboratory Tour
started Percupine
and dividends $103,500
mentioned produced
of Canada's gold
1938 $54,000,000 most of which
Lake
Ontario $26,006
will be about $1,570.
large
practically all of the
terially productive history. These
The
1938 Kirkland
Porcupine 1.252
the
figures called above Again.
Southern Rhodmian gold
1909
11,940,159
Ontario
the
the
Course in Brooklyn
imper
the Canadian
Manitoba
Columbia Of
MOMMENCING in the
large
of
$2,235,000,000
Kirl
activities
story
interesting
exploring
is
Polytechnic
of
and
after
developing this last physical frontier
North
American
Metallurgical
degree of
Engineering
with
$93,000,000
the
any
the
metallurgine
Fellowships
find
fiftern
last
Rhodesia
has
and
$12,800,000
of
1938
about
The
The
$248.
been
to
Adding these figures those for
The
MINING AND METALLURG
1934
et
Urah
THE DRIF
like $45,000,000
OF THINGS
As followed by
why
the
Get
American Steel Output
and
Edward H. Robie
The Cool Impasse
the long fight
have
Manganese Import Costs
the
EDITORIAL in the American
A
Workers
Metal
Market
under
High Manganese Futility
the
1922
from
Mines
The
Italian
Fifteen Billions
AST
The
the
be
700,000
August
the
787,000
fact
the
United
1937.
thirteen
billion
320,000
$101.74
Treasury
of
fifteen
of
that
Germany
Practically Depression-proof
$15,000,000,000
of
liberty
2,885,000,000
1,801,000,000
York
Harbor
Germany
Italy
230,000,000
Pogonotomy Dept.
"acquired"
Deficiency
from
has
Italy
be
Italy
that
the
blades
258
This
MINING AND
PREVIEWS OF
Tomorrow's
Metallurgy
Edited by Louis Jordan
Staffordshire
Products in National
The
Romance
260
83
CORRESPONDENCE
AND DISCUSSION
A Visit with the Papers and
Engineering College Graduate
Publications Committee
Executives
sustaining
Hardings
Display
1939
Case
Getting Away from the Ideals
of the American Constitution
Ores Too For From
Market
classi-
dating
of
but
March 1939
AMONG THE
pathetic
The World Coal Industry
The
NEWER BOOKS
char
well
Books
these
pages,
well others, be
the
Analysis of Ferrous Materials
that
and Analysis of Carbon
through Book Department
Steels
MINING AND METALLUNCT. They
shipped
of
Corp. Reinhold
possible
for
receipt of
York. 1938.
Manicaland
of
bury
$2.50
Engineering
Library, 39th York
REVIEWER By H. A.
will
that
Chemists)
By
the
plants
and
the
HIS presents
vised 1937. for the
This
favor
carbon
analysis
of
streets. The contents
that
qualitative
The
and
for the determination
beings
What the Ancients Thought They
Knew About Geology
The Birth and Development
fanciful
the
germ
the
later
days.
science.
of
Geological Sciences By Frank Dawson
The Wilkins
the
of
Aristotle
Miller
admiration
pany, Baltimore. 1938
LATEST ARRIVALS
have
for
Laboratory Monual
the
RICKARD
HIS
scholar
product
Metallographic
of Greek intelligence
methods
that the fossils of fishes
that
steel
they
(3)
April
pH
and had died
that
in
c H MATHEWSON
the
the author that
The
chromium
and
magnesite
monthly
reford
faculty
MeGill
example,
of
University
metallography,
volatilization
chloride
appraisal
April
Special
Pliny's
Pliny
dealing
by
relation
than
languages
Franklin
blow
Oregon Bibliography
recently
shed Oregon State
Board "Bibliography of
Geology Mineral
Oregon."
be
Little
influence
of
the
Ore.
264
MINING AND METAL RST
MAY.
Chamber
INSTITUTE AFFAIRS
LOCAL SECTION ACTIVITIESFunctions and Procedure of the Papers and
Publications Committee
Special Funds to Finance Milling Methods Volume
and Vocational Booklet
Directors
April 20. 1939
(24,000
booklet
Mineral
Industries
1,500
$201,450
May Dinner, Iron and Steel
Division on May 24
A.M.M.
President Gillies Plans Official
Spring Trip
Thursday
Friday
of
Divi
Not until the comment at
can be published
three readers is in hand the
286
The
Publications
presented to the Papers and
the complete circle tour will
tions Committee for formal
TRANSAC
$135 the regular sleeping and
car charges
stressed
the
Direct
Boericke Heads Newest Section
Beeson and Murphy Speak
members of the Institute
before
sent
benefit
Philippine
Manila
Hotel
Bayview
included
These
of
H.
quality
members
well-ess
geologist
Goldfield
the
grow
Bingham
English
department
action
the
and
the
Detailed
Bingham
Consolidated
de James S. Baker, Russel R Bryan
MacAfee, George Scholey
Mr.
P.J. Mibodeaux Theibe and J. Keevan
Beeson
developed
Mr Boericke acted
language
and
are
thirty
intended
chairman. and the meeting
The
deers are given in another column
The
played The executive
particular
highest standards of dependability
utility. And as author you
publication
your
directed draw of bylaw
similar those the Tri-State
changes
paper
special
de
Charles Bernard Murray
local
Many
helpful
highly
Often
submitted
that
but
industries
mining
what
trends
the
and
detected definitely
the
paragraph
calls
technical
July 10-13 Certain
with
inspection
Nevada Section and Ladies
the
of
proctrating
and
the Nevada Section had sontech
at Carlan's Lake
an
March
the
subject
by
only
Exceptionally attractive
the
Not
and
or
any
gave
city
been
has
for
liberal stopovers and
regarded
adaptations
The
South
living
of
the
by
special
the
Quard
the
last
Harbaugh
Chairman
that
is
twelve
of
for
only
and
Mr and Mrs
New York and
Following
Englarers
Charman
World's Fairs at both Fran
Technical
the Interned family and to American Instituteappeal
of of fining
the Section and
minutes
report
with
and New York One
Division
Be further restard that capire of this resolution be transmitted is
56
called
first
the
Regional Meeting
and
with
7.
O Vanderburg. the
and
will be available
dam
that
breath of Charies Bernard Murray the Institute. the Elearland Section
and the indiction members hour last . legal friend and associate and
. must darming companion and
JOINING the Woman's Auxil
and industrial
practices
acting for threaseises and for the section's araberahip that in the
African Mining Life Described for
with
Island
the If restard by the Execution Committee of the Circuland Section
Boericke. Chairman
The
morning
for
Meeting the Institute
prompt
dealing
engineer's
human
which will
The
the
of
and Chairman of the Ohio Section of the American Justitate
of the Circuland Brrtton - therefore
the Philippines and the
top-notchers in the profession
achievement The entire eng
profession is invited attend
Whereas Charles Bernard Murrag was for mang gears Bravitary
of Sining and Mictallargical Engineers and most active in the affairs
The executive committee
the four important operating
Council which is sponsoring it
red letter day in the history of eng
of
other
explained
the Section and to Mrs.
the San Francisco Engineering
practice
of
Mistellargical Engineers and . forwar Streeter and:
Ossam for her for the
Golden Gate International Exposition
expect
and
past
basis
Lednicky. and Clark Votes of thank
given to Messrs Boericke. Ellis
MacCoy for their work in organiz
Wednesday July 13.
radically
breated member of the American Institute of fining -
Boericke, Ellis. Weekley Geringer
ignated as Engineers Day the
therefore
Wheres Charles Bermard Marriage has here for araring balf . cratary
the Local Section by Messes
Trend of Future Practice to Be Theme of 15ist
A.I.M.E. Meeting in San Francisco
industries
fact
Brief talks given regarding
aims of the Institute
thing
of
which
Nierras the Execution Committee of the Circuland Brities of the
American Institute of filing and Matallarginal Englaners note
beath of their friend format associate
A great deal of interest was
without
paper
the
Mr.
elected Chairman of the Section
technical
high
of
deb
be
W.L de Carbonel Also present
Co. Mrs. Peterson's
190
For
late
the
mining
&
268
AND METALL
1939
the
Cleveland
a.
Committee
Institute The presence of such
engineers
F. Borricke, Ernest W. Ellis
Clark Joseph M. Flanagan. K
forwart H. C. Morrison, John
long
and
Technical
March
Z
typed
The
geologist
Mintoe Jr. C.A. Weekley.
limits
idea
new
Lednicky. P. c. Merrill
at
for.
by
Getinger. W.J. Millard J.
The
mining
large
the
Section
The
the
of
He
Utah Section
the
member
through
the
Philippine Section
days
discovered
be
Marrier
the
used in determining the attitude of the
flow. Successful exploration was based
quantity of gas,
Benedict Discusses Copper
the Monroe.
Chicago Section
of this field
upon the structural details determined
by the above methods
OME
have
One annual features of the
program Utah Section
the St. Louis Sec.
for in Annual Meefing
life
of
the
Greenwold Secretary.
dinner
Feb. Alta Club
Chair
Metamorphic Batholith
record attendance. there
216 present They learned that other
Described by Goodspeed
than Walt Disney can bring out the
Oregon Section
aesthetic and idealistic side of
Chicago
112
ITH Chairman Nixes
by few deft adjustments of
Dec
Oregin Section
side. A model track system
laid tables provided with model
When
and mechanical loader
Union Oregon State College.
hard hats, which were deffed for
Albert
sided
board
evening, and relegated service
flower holders Taking precaution
Former's
Utah
Auxiliary
dance
against likelihood that not all
tending the appreciation
Ferdinand
excellent
dinner
served other calories and
not mention the
will
Dr. Nix on Metal Structures
ABOUT fifty attended the March
the Utah Section
Foster c Nix of the Bell Telephone
spoke "Super Struc-
indebted their good time are
Walker. chairman and his
Metallic Systems
the Auxiliary committee.
Dr. Nix discussed this
sisting of Mrs. B. B. Brewster (chair
Mrs Ernest Gayford Mrs.
Burdick, Mrs. H. M. Hartman Mrs.
cold-working. the varying .
somewhat
lucid, yet thorough
With the alloy
the of cold work
B R Brewster, J. A Marsh, G.
Ordered
State Meetings
the
members
Tube
Del
members
making
and
picture
Dr.
following its showing
Nix
apparates
engineer the
question
busy
of
San Francisco,
Perry Byerly.
casing
his
Ellin
: before the See
-
joints
A.
Sawin,
CA
Following Mr. Dunn's
Davis,
Finally,
describing
BRANCH the Southern Cali
of
systems
Section the Institute is being
Calif. include
Zine
that
Picher,
Sec
before
Institute Branch of Ventura Calif.
of April 11. the
at
Life
California
attention.
he
investigations
audience
of
of
who gathered
EJ
differential
part
proved
Mr. Dunn's paper and the
the
L
Deaches
AS MIGHT been expected
subject
Protin, Pittsburgh Steel Co.
with
Mr.
Talk on Earthquokes
and
High
differentiating
Section Officers
San Francisco Section Hears
Casing
courtesy of the American Steel
film
Hotel
Dunn
National
March
These
might be
Deep Wells and Line Pipe
This
New York Section
K Nixon Chairman
Laughlin Steel
Spang Chalfant Co.
describing the construe
Yunnan Tin Mining Described
formed entirely by replacement
that instead of being traly an
54
tion San Francisco Oakland
Mines
123
274
Penn
atomic
FOLLOWING Dutch luncheon,
kept
themselves
the idea that batholith might
divided
being
J.
do iron and
Correspondent
many
trained in the school of magmatic
following
the
evening
similar
of
distinct
at Harmarville Pa.
lines in X-ray Lane
provided the alloying constitu
have
origin
to and gas The labe
states by means of the
Motion Pictures Feature Two Tri.
T.P.
been
the Gulf Research & Devel
from corresponding
G.
Secretary
the
17
the
March MINISC TECHNOLOCT
afternoon and
appropriate
an
temperature. then
March
-
met jointly with the Engineers
tive of the copper and
assealing
With Founder Societies
His
Society of Western
Pennsylvania Gas Men's
lattice. Ordering
Woman's Auxiliary
photograph shows
geology
spoke
Pittsburgh Section
N April 10. the Pittsburgh Section
systems by illustrating the
Wiles, Carlos Bardwell and
Praises were especially
of
of
between ordered and
composed of Tom
partment
Roush Secretary
Joint Meeting on Oil and Gas
of North Public Sec.
Goodspeed
meeting
Interesting followed
chief example. be first
Dugan. and Mrs. James Ivers:
made
be
For technical fare of
meeting of the Detroit Section
March 16, at the Detroit Island Hotel
esprin
accepted
regretfully
Detroit Section
thoughtfully provided
Mr.
vallis which Packard
to bring flowers. There
years
Okla
The
Secretary.
systems
with the
270
MINING AND META
MAY.
vicinity
Section
Brock
future
Jaha
AMONG THE
STUDENT ASSOCIATES
Colorado Passes the 200 Mark Michigan's Showing
Conspicuous Nine Schools Have More Than 100
M.
A.
Tesas
College
NEWS OF
INSTITUTE MEMBERS
March 16 meeting Polanovitch
appointed the
De
Besiamin
fortunate
Kay
Whitebill
274
Norwood
Mining
of
Kentuck
MINING AND MET/ LURGY
275
200
CIRCLES
Prouph
277
276
New Patents Issued to Members
William Segaine Jr. Del Ray Beach
2,141,157 Gold alloy consisting of gold
copper. cobalt, silver, and sinc.
Clube No. 2,142,941
pregnation silicon
Fred.
The
allows
centered
H.
Bronxville
Chemical
methods of testing
Indianapolis, Ind. assignors
2,140,344
HARLES BERNARD MURRAY
gold.
2,143,914
chemist
nickel
Harry Prevert and Francis
and Mrs. Charles B. Murray
minerals
Frans R. Hensel and Earl
Works
next
the Cariboo district
Columbia From 1900
lurgical No. 2,145,020 Manufacture
sponge
After
the
cohalt
Smelting
civil
Elected
this Institute 1901
Neme
Died
A
1899 Babbirt T.
North
1856 and graduated
University of California is 1879 He
31,1939
Mar
Jr.
with the U.S Geological
1919
1921 Merrim H
2,143,156
topographer
Harold
railroads found his services
Ohio
R.M.
For years
River Consolidated Goal & Coke Ca
division
Pittsburgh
GEORGE KENT.
B.S. degree. After leaving Cali
formia he spent eight years with
Illinois Steel Co. in Chicago He later
Institute
SNYDER
since
1896
1938 in Melbourne
American
his connection with this corpor
educated
and
Royal
School
of
went to France but returned
California enjoy his remaining
superintendent
University
Smelting & Refining Co.
Yugonlavia
died
Colorado Then be Australia
for the Broken
1938
Proprietary Co. Ltd. After
1881
early
1907
1904
The
Mr.
Leith explora
After
University
the
at
Survey
He
Middle
there
and
district
which
AMUEL W MEALS
Pittsburgh,
be
Pittsburgh
the Carnegie Natural Gas
&
Scotland
Montana
East Butte Copper
died
Butter
Meals
and
1905
work
until
Soutland
ARALD AHLQVIST.
Mr.
1922
and
in
finally
278
MINING AND MET
9y
New
York
of
the
America
Institute
Metals
In of that year
department
Reductive
regular
Meetings
Americ
the
Crowell
of the University
receiving his B.A. degree
&
metallurgist
Cleveland
egist. Denver Feb.
this company be practiced
and
laboratory Pitt-burgh
LIUS WARNER mining geal
last December
Mines
Annual
Carnegie
Cleveland
and
where
partnership
graduation be worked as
general
of the Edgen
for
Pa... died suddenly
born
He
the
chief
1904 organized his
netallurgical engineer. When
Hughes & Mover. and
sulting engineers and end
Two
Co.
became
joined the staff of the U. S. Steel Corp
the
of
then
and
Iron
for
chapter
Vista
Buena
Virginia.
largely
Gereland
III.
the
years age. He graduated
AMES HOSIE HUGHES
OHN
Joliet.
Jan. 13 Mr. Gray was born in
River
Murray
Mr.
the
the University of California in 1892
The
Inc.,
Kobe.
college.
manager
manager
After graduation be
Honor
Director
chief engineer, chirl
.
Legion
State
he
AMES H. GRAY metallurgical
gineer. of Berkeley Calif. died
with the Monongabela
Ohio
writed
recognition of his
Am Soc and the ALEE
from
September
degree
Institute
Polytechnic
Leffingwell was also member
did engineering
Okla
1866
received
for number of years.
Loval Coal & Coke
SUNDBERG
April
and be also engaged in private
first
OBITUARIES
Jorial
Leffingwell was born
lurgy
Mar
Edward
Sampling
days
Angeles last August He had
Necrology
Refa
Heights
injured
died
engineer.
1934
Arther
LEFFINGWE
beryllium
Albert J. Plainfield N.
One
the
Cleveland
of
taining
The
instantly
Institute
Imperial
Murray.
and
Society of Arts
Electrical
2,142,671
Cleveland
Columbia
British
Foley
Albert Jr. Metaches
engineer
railways under
India
Electro Metal
D. Little. Inc.
Finland in 1876 and graduated
mechanical
College. From 1876 to 1893
surveying. constructing
M. Becket and Ressell Franks
Greenwich
2,142,200
South Africa. He received
ining at the Royal Indian En
Carbide & Corp.
Harry K Brig Milwaukee
Avery.
WEBSTE
Frederick M. Becket of New York
Fla No. 2,344,942 Metallurgy of sinc
Julian
OSEA
Murray
Institute
the
Lake
Gen
292
PROPOSED
FOR MEMBERSHIP
200
Effect of Plastic Deform
Age-hardening of
ABSTRACTS OF
INSTITUTE PAPERS
By Robert W.
Lind
T. Norton T.
April Metals
in the Tennessee
TECHNICAL PUBLICATIONS
Industry By Paul M.
The
H. R. Mosley.
March
Mining
The
Methods
Min
Grophysical
of
Earth
Declusion
Wood
Preservation
Coal Mining
CAST IRON AND CONFIDENCE
Thus
Molybdenum addition to cost iron has often proved
tall
best way to get the most out of money spent to
Exploring
This
of a gray cost 0.75% Moly for
The Supposed
morphism
Tis.
of
and
mill drives is typical example. The
E
G
iron le showed 61,000 pail and
Suggestions to Institute Authors
Papers
stand service. Despite the necmachining presents no difficulties.
CALCIUM
Conseliof
Institute
plant
282
yb
den
ITI
i 00 Fi emue New
Com
York
SALES OPPORTUNITY
SAUERMAN LONG RANGE MACHINES
For Dipping Conveying Stockpiling
world
A LL
Squerman
31
Book Notices
ANOTHI
INDEX ON
FLOTATION
Aggregates
NEW A.I.M.E. TECHNICAL PUBLICATIONS
May. 1939
The Bear's Annual Index is ready for you. Every year
few hundred more mining men have asked for copies
Published METUS TECHNOLOGY
books
the Flotation Index, and we have just mailed
additions users Besides these
have complete of the Index brought
for other mining men who need this valuable
Index
Flotation Can you The Index
ELECTRO
GREAT WESTERN ELECTRO-CHEN
ben
INDEX,
think of
B ar Brand
X
New York N. Y.
NTHATE
OTATION
F EAGENTS
F
American
Institute
29
West Thirty ainth
Street of Mining and Metallurgical Engineers
7
BEAR
BRAND
ENGINEERING SOCIETIES
EMPLOYMENT SERVICE
A ther
beat
AUTOdrifters
for World's Greatest Tunnel Job
for
Open
Communical
One of the
contractors working
on Delaware Aqueduct117 miles of tunnel-purchased
a number of CP AUTODRISTERS when
he started his first contract They
have so definitely proved their
superiority in FASTER DRILLING SPEED
-LOWER AIR CONSUMPTION-10W
MAINTENANCE-EASY HANDLING-
that he has again ordered
AUTODRIFTERS Writefor $ ?
which fully describes
CP
Metallargical
Jamine
( HICAGO PNEUMATIC TODE COMPANY
o You Know ...
Cracible
Steel
PROFESSIONAL DIRECTORY
DRILLING
H. ALDRIDGE
William M Barret, Inc.
Geople
ROSAIRE
EAVENSON ALFORD AND
AUCHMUTY
DE
CUT
TLY
ORES
COAL PREPARATION
INC.
SAVE MONEY
in drilling test holes!
ROTATION FIRING
Use Sperry-Sun's
CORE ORIENTATION SERVICE
15" ORE RASE
Do
ROCK
DRFT
SIGE DEF
For Safety
and Efficiency Use
THE ENSIGN-BICKFORD MASTER FUSE LIGHTER
SPERRY.SU
WELL SURVEYING CO
1608
Street.
Walnut
Philadelphia.
Pa
The
U.S.A
Beach
549
Road
THE ENSIGN-BICKFORD COMPANY SIMSBURY CONN.
Manafacturers of Safety Fase
14
BK
2
298
THE WHITE HOUSE
WASHINGTON
HA
12-19-39
MEMORANDUM FOR SECRETARY MORGENTHAU:
I told the President about my
plan to bring General Arnold and Colonel
Burns to see you, and that you had
graciously asked us to lunch tomorrow.
He says the plan is O.K. with him.
EnnorE.M.W.
THE WHITE HOUSE
WASHINGTON
December 19, 2277.
MEAL BANDUA FOR
THE SECRETAR OF NE
about MAST
THE WHITE HOUSE
WASHINGTON
Novemie: 15, 1939.
Se: KFC
In cost!- the the ID the cash
requirements o: : 2 possitility in
connection ⑆ the RUC alaba is kept in mind.
According to E-ction 13 of the KFC Act,
"the Corporation =. alio ST my time PAY to
the Treasure: of the Uni:- States a: ziscellancous additis any DOC lelonging to the Corpora-
tion OF free time : : receive by it in the
course of Highle for OF othe nice in excess of
reasonalle := THE : Dr.: its requireBents curine The capital amounts
to $400 million 52 the carned surplus to $258
million AS o: the PD of September. In accition,
the Corporate icn has unrealing profits. Its
loans and invoice are listed in the accompanying table.
Obviously the Corporation has capital Anis
far in excess of its probable losses. An appraisal
of such losses, prepared in connection with the
Byrd Resolution, will shortly be available. It
would appear that from a quarter to & half billion
dollars might be taken &: any time by the Treasury
as miscellaneous receipts, which, of course, would
reduce the deficit and the necessity for incurring
open market debt.
Lauchlin Currie
Summer 15, 1939.
DEPOSITION
LOM
In thousands of collers)
October 31,
1939
to financial institutions
175,795
DISE DC preferent STOCK o: bores snc
insurance companies
Print FLOOR, notes, 3.70
electronic
513,200
LOLLE to milroris (including receivers)
DOLES for self-11 juicating projects
LOVE to injuried and commercial
Doins to levee, and irrigation
directs.
Other lorns
Securities purclased from Public Morks
Administration
Total loans s.n. investments,
other than interagency
Preferred stock of Export-Import bank
Louns to Rural Electrification Administration
Capital STOCK of, are loans to R. F. C.
Martgage Co.
Capital stock of, and loans to Fed. Natl.
Marge. Loss.
Lores to Tennessee Valley Authority
Total locne and investants
Capital funer es of September 30, 1939.
25
.
Surplus.
500 million
258
Deferric credits
Sustained credits,etc. 17
36,650
39,372
126,363
businesses
Capital
33,127
83,482
23,274
126,649
1,608,911
45,000
146,498
55,102
50,323
3.300
1,914,133
298D
DEC 19 1939
ity dear Mr. Currict
In reply to your letter of December 8. 1939. there are
unclosed tables containing the following information:
(1) A table a the estimated gross and net amounts of
son-Federal securities outstanding. interest on which is
exempt from the Federal income tax. as of June 30, 1939.
(2) A table shaving the principal classes of holders of
treet and guaranteed securities of the United States, and the
estimated amounts of their holdings as of June 30. 1939. It
dill be notes that the distribution includes a somewhat large
"all other group. We hope to be able to break this group
down further is the near future.
More complete details as to the estimated distribution of
direct and guaranteed securities as of June 30. 1938 vere 1
lished in the February 1939 Treasury Bulletin. I - enclosing
- date.
a copy of pages 22 and 23 which present a chart and table
(3) A table shoving the comperison of Federal outlays for
durable improvements and recoverable leans and investments with
the not deficit and increase in the gress public debt for the
fiscal year 1939.
Very truly yours,
(Signed) H. Morgenthau, Jr.
Secretary of the Treasury.
ORIGINAL FORWARDED TO ADDRESSEE
Honorable Leashlin Carrie,
Administrative Assistant to the President,
FROM OFFICE OF THE SECRETARY
White House,
Washington, D. c.
12/20/19 9:45am
inclesures.
File to Mr. Thompson
WHITE
12/18/39
By Message
THE WHITE HOUSE
WASHINGTON
December 8, 1939.
Dear Mr. Secretary:
I should appreciate it very much if
you would let me have the following information:
(1) The gross and net volume of nonfederal tax-exempts outstanding on June 30,
1939.
(2) A revision of the estimates for
June 30, 1939, presented in the table on
page XI of the Budget Message for 1940.
(3) An estimate of the distribution
by clasa or type of holder of the public
debt as of June 30, 1939.
Yours sincerely,
Read
Lauchlin Currie
Administrative Assistant
to the President.
Honorable Henry Morgenthau, Jr.,
Secretary of the Treasury,
Washington, D. C.
298F
DEC 19 1939
My dear Mr. Curriot
In reply to your letter of December 8. 1939. there are
enclosed tables containing the following information:
(1) A table showing the estimated gross and net amounts of
non-Federal securities outstanding. interest on which is
exempt from the Federal income tar. as of June 30. 1939.
(2) A table shaving the principal classes of holders of
direct and guaranteed securities of the United States, and the
estimated amounts of their heldings as of June 30. 1939. It
will be notes that the distribution includes a somewhat large
"all other group. We hope to be able to break this group
down further in the near future.
More complete details as to the estimated distribution of
direct and guaranteed securities as of June 30. 1938 vare published in the February 1939 Treasury Balletin. I - enclosing
a oopy of pages 22 and 23 which present a chart and table
coverity these data.
(3) A table shoving the comparison of Federal outlays for
durable improvements and recoverable leans and investments with
the not deficit and increase in the gross public debt for the
fiscal year 1939.
Very truly yours,
(Signed) H Morgenthau, Jr.
Secretary of the Treasury.
ORIGINAL FORWARDED TO ADDRESSEE
Reservable Lanchlin Curric.
FROM OFFICE OF THE SECRETARY
Administrative Assistant to the President,
White House,
Washington, D. c.
By Messenger
12/20/39
7:45 a.m
Inclesures.
File to Mr. Thompson
WTH: Vf
12/18/39
2986
opy
Estimated amount of non-Federal securities outstanding,
interest on which is except from the Federal income tax
June 30, 1939
Amount
:
millions
: of dollars)
State and local governments:
19,626
1. Interest-bearing securities outstanding
2. Interest-bearing securities held by:
(a) U. S. Government, Federal trust funds
426
and agencies
1,530
(b) State and local sinking funds
(c) State and local trust and investment
funds
2,513
Total
4,469
3. Net outstanding interest-bearing securities
....
15,157
Territories and insular possessions:
1. Interest-bearing securities outstanding
2. Interest-bearing securities held by:
(a) Territorial and insular sinking and
trust funds
150
29
121
3. Net outstanding interest-bearing securities
Treasury Department, Division of Tax Research. December 15, 1939
298H
0
PY
Principal Classes of Holders of Direct and Guaranteed
Government Obligations and the Estimated Amounts
of Their Holdings on June 30, 1939
:
: Total direct
:
Guaranteed : and guaranteed
obligations : obligations
:
:
1
:
Holders
Direct
sobligations
:
:
:
:
(In billions of dollars)
11.9
3.1
15.0
2.7
.4
3.1
.6
.1
.7
15.2
3.6
18.8
surance companies
5.2
.6
5.8
deral Reserve banks
2.6
deral agencies and trust funds
5.6
rating insured comercial banks
cual savings banks
ber commercial and private banks
Subtotal, all consercial
and savings banks
ate and local government
investment funds
.3
2.6
-
5.9
.3
.3
-
11.9
1
1 other holdings
11.0
.9
39.9
5.4
2
Total amount outstanding
45.3
December 15, 1939
easury Department, Division of Research and Statistics
Comprises holdings of (1) individuals, (2) taxable corporations other
than banks and insurance companies, (3) tax-exempt organizations other
than autual savings banks and insurance companies exempt from Federal
incase taxes, and (4) foreigners.
ixcludes guaranteed issues held by the Treasury.
2980
Enclosed -
Pages 22 and 23 of Treasury Bulletin of February, 1939.
298J
COMPARISON OF FEDERAL OUTLATS FOR DERIBLE
AND RECOVERABLE LOANS AND INVESTMENTS WITH THE DEFICIT AND INGUEASE IN THE GROSS PUBLIC DEST FOR
FOR TER FISCAL YEAR 1939
(Millions of dollars)
Fiscal year
1939
Deficit, excluding debt retirement
Increase in gross public debt
3.5k
3.27
Federal outlays for darable improvements and reservable
lease and investments
Direct Federal public works
Recoverable lease and investments 2/
533
195
205
Public reals
Conservation work through Civilian Conservation
290
Corps
New construction projects of Verice Progress
Administration
733
Orante to public bodies for public works
(including administration)
379
Total outlays
V
2,291
This statement tas the - basis as the statement appearing on page at of the
Buiget Message for 1940.
Refund w Repayments - loans, covered into sistellanoous receipts.
12/18/39
(COPY:FE:EJN)
EMBASSY OF THE
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
Chunging December 19. 1939.
Air Mail
No. 408.
Subject: Effect of Japanese Invasion of Kwangsi
on Highway Transportation in South China:
Statement to Press Made by Mr. M. E.
Sheahan, American Motor Transport Expert.
Confidential
The Honorable
The Secretary of State,
Washington.
Sir:
I have the honor to enclose for the information and
1/
files of the Department the text in English of a statement to the press made on November 29 by Mr. M. E.
Sheahan, American motor transport expert, on the effect
of the Japanese invasion of Ivangsi on highway transporta-
tion in South China. While press of routine has delayed
transmission of the text to the Department, the questions
it raises are as pertinent now as they were when it was
released, and will continue to be as long as the Hanning
highway is closed to traffic.
In the statement under reference Mr. Sheahan
minimized the importance of the loss of the Nanning high-
way: referred to it as a "temporary suspension" of
traffic, expressed enthusiasm over the usefulness of the
Burna Highway; called the Nanning highway "only one of
many strands in the neshwork that ensures China her
supplies of foreign goods": stated that the Eanning highway had been in a state of ill repair for several months:
declared that new roads could be built "with great
rapidity": and announced that a new road - far superior
to the Earning highway - would be completed by the end of
December, and that at least four other routes were in
the process of construction.
Mr. Sheahan, it will be recalled, is in Changicing to
advise the Ministry of Communications in the execution of
its plan to coordinate transportation throughout China
(Bebassy's despatch No. 407. December 18. 1939). On
November 30, when asked by a member of the Fabasay staff
whether he could recommend a route for the United States
299
2-
300
Navy truck, which has attempted to operate between
Haiphong and Chungking during the past six months,
Mr. Sheahan said the only route he would consider was the
Kunming (Tunnanfu)-Chunging road, which would, of course,
mean shipping cargo from Eniphong to Kunming by rail.
He said there were various *back roads" west of Nanning,
but that they were too close to the area of hostilities to
be at all safe. Three trucks, he added, had been
demolished by aerial bombs on these roads in the course
of the two or three preceding days.
The Embassy understands that the chief reason for
Mr. Sheahan's allowing himself to be quoted as expressing
an optimism which he obviously did not - and does not -
feel, was a desire to stimulate the Chinese authorities
with whom he is working to greater and more effective
activity. He seems to have felt that if he stated publicly
that conditions were favorable, the Chinese authorities
might feel obliged to demonstrate to interested observers
in China - and to the United States Treasury Department that they were capable of accomplishing the tasks for which
he had given them credit. It remains to be seen whether
Mr. Sheahan's strategem will have the desired effect.
The new road which Mr. Sheahan said would be oven by
the end of December is, as the Department is probably aware,
the Caobang-Hochih road which, according to Mr. P. Y. Tsou,
quoted in the Enbassy's destatch No. 405 of December 18.
1939. is not expected to accomodate trucks with pay-
loads of more than one ton when it is first opened. In
this connection it will be recalled that in his despatch
to the Department No. 26 of December 10, 1939. Consul Reed
at Hanoi stated that the volume of traffic which could be
handled on the Crobang-Fochih road if and when it is completed would be insignificant compared with the volume
formerly transported over the Nanning highway.
So far as the Burna highway is concerned, a member of
the Embassy staff was informed by an official of the
Ministry of Communications, on November 10, who had just
returned from an inspection trip on the Burma highway in
company with Mr. Sheahan, that he believed the Nanning
highway was preferable to the Burma route because of the
greater cost involved in use of the latter. It is,
furthermore, difficult to believe that increased traffic
on the Burma highway can make up for the complete stoppage
of traffic on the Nanning route.
-3 - -
That the seriousness of the situation is recognized
by General Chiang Kai-shek is indicated by the apparent
magnitude of the counter-offensive he has ordered in the
Eanning area. Until such time as the Namming road may
revert to Chinese control, however, there is reason to
believe that the problem of importing essential supplies
into China will remain as critical as it has been at any
previous time since the beginning of the current hostilities.
Respectfully yours,
For the Ambassador:
WILLYS R. PECK
Counselor of Embassy
Enclosure:
1/ Text of statement to
press made by Mr. M. E. Sheahan.
Original to Department by air mail
Four copies to Department by pouch
Copy to Embassy, Peiping by pouch
Copy to Consulate General, Shanghai by pouch
Copy to Consulate, Yunnanfu, by air mail
Copy to Consulate, Hanoi, by air mail
Copy to Consulate, Rangoon, by air nail
301
Enclosure No. 1
to Despatch No. 408
Dated December 19. 1939
COPY
Released by China Information Committee November 29. 1939
SUSPENSION OF EASNING TRAFFIC INSIGNIFICANT,
STATES AMERICAN HIGHWAY AUTHORITY
The temporary suspension of the flow of supplies over
the Eanning highway occasioned by military operations in
that vicinity is of distinctly minor importance, stated
Mr. Maurice E. Sheahan, American highway authority, in an
interview accorded our correspondent today. With the
close of the rainy season, an unlimited amount of goods
may be brought into China over other and more thoroughly
conditioned highways.
Throughout the rainy season, despite the heaviest
fall of rains ever recorded in South China, rains in
which even the Burna railway was temporarily forced to
suspend operations. the Yunnan-Burna highway was open and
in use. Mr. Sheahan, who has just returned from a tour
of inspection in the southwest, stated that he had
observed as many as forty or fifty landslides in a space
of twelve kilometers along the new highway, but none had
been allowed to impede the smooth flow of traffic
pouring into China from the south.
The Eanning highway. be went on, is only one of many
strands in the meshwork that ensures China her supplies
of foreign goods. The highway has been in a state of ill
repair for several months, and since the spread of war to
its neighborhood it has fallen into a state of complete
disuse. The Chinese in Kvangsi have within the past few
days allowed the highway to be flooded and let the road-
bed revert to the original paddy fields that preceded
its construction, thus rendering it useless for enemy
operations.
One of the most amazing features of the south China
countryside, continued,Nr. Sheahan, is the multitude of
back roads and country routes that may be linked up to
ship goods in any direction required. These traditional
back country roads in the Kwangsi area may be linked up
in a for weeks to provide any inaginable detour. These
roads consist of stone-paved paths over which animal
traffic has coursed for centuries. It is only necessary
to lift the stones out of their bedding, place them on
the side of the old readbed as hard shoulders and fill
in the space with gravel to have roads that are fit for
motor traffic. The existence of such back-ways and
302
-2paths have enabled some of China's new reads in the south-
east to be built with great rapidity.
The back-roads and byways constitute only a reserve
insurance for the flow of supplies through Evengsi, for,
in addition to them, the close of the month of December
will see the completion of a completely new notor read.
This road, long-planned and almost completed as a substitute
for the old highway. will shorten the distance between
China's southern border and Hochih, in north Ivangsi,
by a couple of hundred kilometers. The new read is
much smoother, has far fewer curves, and is distinguished
by its excellent profile engineering. At least four
other routes, said Mr. Sheahan, are in the process of
construction.
Throughout southwest China the work of the Ministry
of Communications is progressing rapidly. Under the
leadership of Minister Chang Kis-ngam, change after change
is being nade in the gradual drive for efficiency and
speed in China's transport. Within the past fer months
preparations have been made and approved for centralizing
the supply of spare parts to fourteen hitherto independent
government transport agencies. Amazing success has been
achieved in experimental operation of duck-bottoned
Chinese junks powered with American outboard motors. By
dividing the highways into sections, so that individual
drivers will traverse only sectors instead of entire trips,
it is expected that day and night operations may be begun
over China's southern arterial highways.
The Ministry of Communications, assisted by three
American highway experts, Nessrs. M. E. Sheahan, A. B.
Bassi, and C. V. Tan Patter of the Keeshin Freight Lines,
Inc. of Chicago, has been taking full advantage of the
stability within China's principal highways, to
reorganize the various regional management into one
centralized. more economic and efficient transportation
agency. A new era of highway service is darming for the
lasting benefit of China.
303
CONFIDENTIAL
304
December 19, 1939
ky dear Kr. President:
AS our luncheon conference on December 12th you requested
& statement showing what might be done to make funds available to
finance a deficit over the next eighteen months of as such as
$4,000,000,000 without increasing the public debt. You indicated
that you might even went to show in the forthooming budget a
maller public debt at the and of this period than now exists, in
which case it would, of course, be necessary to obtain funds is
excess of the $4,000,000,000 by means other than direct borrowing
or taxtion.
One obvious course of action open to us is the possibility
of decreasing the working balance in the General Fund. I now
estimate that the working balance on January 1, 1940, will amount
to about $2,750,000,000. It would be possible, I think, if no new
unfaverable developments occur, to reduce this balance to $750,000,000,
by the and of the fiscal year 1941, in which case about $1,000,000,000
would be made available for current expenditure. Mother it would be
vise, however, to consit ourselves in advance to so large a reduction
is, I think, a matter for very careful consideration.
The Treasury has carried, as a matter of policy. a substantial
working balance and 11 has also refrained from utilizing to the full
the short-term borrowing possibilities available through Treasury
bills. This has assured the immediate availability of sufficient
.2.
305
funts to nook statement - sight arise. The I these been in a poultion to relieve the - - of mater -
diff qualifies dating without situations, - m for I
the - shich comment last Suptotal I believe that these definite administration is this polier. not only with request to -
- accurity makes, but also - of the mosse of - obligations - extetenting. such as United States - Postal Savings deposits, Resplayment Trust Part, and 1
monts of the - modies agencies of the Government.
- I of the sale of obligations of erodis agree
of the Government constitute another possible - of funds.
During the minutes year 1939 we have sold - committee is
the I of about $700,000,000, the processa of thich I Issua
need to - - previously - by the Treasury Time - to to obtained from repayment of advence has - been release
w I $300,000,000.
- miles agencies of the Government, which already I -
deposits in the - working Balances to the extent of applicately
mmm sign - their borrowing powers to did
/ funds from the maint, is - of their - - State could than be deposited in the Transitivity where - would
be to most - - / Become, election
of - . - eight subject the Medicinities to - /
- the I that as constituted - evasion of the w - both to the activities of these - and to -
306
Historica - the cose.
- I with the first two Stone would - - - $1,100,000,000, which so far short of the 14,000,000,000 Instrust.
to obtain this - ss world. therefore, be - to copier all-
storal - addition confilist with previous - to and - make questions of currency and - yolday.
- which are legally possible incinies
3. The of Mabiliation Past and to have the to transfer to the I the $1,800,000,000 of will - hold
for - - of the Pand. If emerical side would
1 $1,800,000,000 for the Transacy working below to most
/ expectitures. It would, - the other heal. lease the
Read with only a book wolls against which ss could - at - time.
If the - operations of the Past should require - - the
1 $280,000,000 working belows, 11 would to - for ss
to - this book and the Treasury in that would I to find - many to seet each within
IS we electry not contemplated at the the who the yourse
is the and - Ast with request to the Mabiliation Read were
extended that Ste and assets would to used to most correct -
- is Society of the treasury. I have separatelly advised the
/ - $1,800,000,000 of this Past is still hold in - form of
with - that - is as intention of using that - for - -
.4.
307
other the to most Stabilization Pend requirements. Only who these
requirements so longer exist would 11 be appropriate to allocate
the assets for the retirement of the public debt, and even them the
proper timing of this use of the Fund would involve fundamental
questions of monetary and currency policy.
II. Use silver for Investor of Silver Certificates.
We have authority to is silver certificates up to the monetary
value ($1.29 as cance) of the free silver now in the Treasury. If
exercised, this would increase the amount of funds available to meet
expenditures by about $1,500,000,000. When the Silver Purchase Act
was approved, we decided to issue silver certificates only - to
the cost of the silver, and to set aside any signienge is a special
fund, and not to treat 11 as as ordinary Government receipt. This
was a decision not to use a monetary device for the purpose of lesson-
ing the amount of public debt borrowing. I still believe that decision
was vise.
III. Use the Palence of the Instructions Resulting from the
Detection in the of the cold Deller. This balance, in the
amount of approximately $342,000,000, could be transferred to the
working belonce. This Ingrement balance was appropriated or authorised
to be need for specific purposes, many loans to industry through
the Federal Second Seake and payment to the Philippines is connection
-5-
308
with the seduction in the weight of the gold dollar. As in the of the - of the Stabilization Pend gold and the silver
the transfer of this increment to the working balance would miss a
question of monetary policy. The - involved, however, is not large
and its transfer would have little practical Supertanes.
IV. Other Leally Possible Research. There are other povers which, if invoiced, would make funds available is offician to
those commerated aboves annely. further devaluation of the gold dollar,
which, on the basis of present holdings, would provide about $3,100,000,000
if 11 were reduced is weight to the full statutory limits equal devise
tion of the silver dollar, which would provide about $3,300,000,0005
and the use of Thomas currency, issuable, however, only unier certain
important restrictions, which would provide $3,000,000,000. I - not
discussing those massive is detail for the reason that I do not think
you have their use in sind.
These are two important phases of this whole problem upon
which I should 11ho to make further coment:
1. The buight and with aspect, and
2. The general montary and financial aspect.
We are focus with a substantial deficit for the fiscal year
enting Jane 30. 19th. as well as for the current fiscal year. For the
past tea years the Government has financed its deficite by selling
public an obligations based - the public amit. The feet that the
o6.
309 G
- Treasury of has been able to sell these is -
the - time / $25,000,000,000 I this dobe the 3.57% to - - - sate - - - as
is the - to 2.996 Indicates to - that 1 -
stants - the in - 1 my is still - to - to 1
1 - - or - interest - mote to - - as Fund to - - and fismental - -
- Stablication ands, the silver the - of the
not happe - in the - of that part of - 1 onle - balance
$4,000,000,000. 1 banks, would increase I making
the to - I to not believe that as would be - w about
1 this - to Congress 1 as adviceble at this
- - w a policy of adding I the - would
- / - $1,000,000,000 to the - of - - -
- - - - of the - are - I
Motory I Interest rates are at the Heald takey
are
- of this 1 the - of Individual I levels in all as or to / and of 1 - of appoints, of
- of - - to I levels. It is does, - I
// w
/
that
Night
- - receive / 1 / so - as the 1 1 1 as
methon classity - the effective - our of / another 1
-1-
310
difficulty estimate. Additional to booking reserves by 1
Treasity operations will add to the
Mat changes is conditions my cocar within the mest digitase
months - - I Is is Supertant, thosefore, to retain freedom
of action in the mortary field. Consitment - to emonts the
montary masses - above would restrict such freedom of
action and night have other - /
to - - I think 11 would be inconsistent with vise
fiscal and monetary policy for you to - is year buiget
- for the fiscal year 19th that you propose to - - withods
indicated above to prevent as increase is the public dost, - loss
that you propose time to - over the fiscal year 1941 as
estacl seduction of the annual amount of the date.
A selection is the Seneral Pand balance is as amount not to
- - Million dollars between January. 1940 and June, 19th,
will probably to entirely feasible, but I think that as that this is to be - should be qualified to adult another desision
If developments I st.
1 . not believe additional silver certificates should be
Secured the coot of the other acquired) for norely bulgetary
1 Ins that - enlanged is of this form of currency should
- a strettly - Jostification
- and commited for the Mobilisation Fund is a mak
- that - be and should be altimately and to reduce the
311
public debt, but both the commitments we have made to Congress
and montary considerations argue against its use at this time
for the purpose of avoiding public debt borrowing. The same can-
siderations apply to the reminder of the gold increment in the
General Fund.
/
By recommendation therefore is that is that part of your
budget assenge which Male with the means of financing the templated deficit for the fiscal year 1941 you indicate that the
greater part of the deficit should be financed by an increase in
the public debt.
It may be conceivable that centities sight arise in the
next year and a half which would Jestify the use of any or all of
the resources listed above, but to - is advence that they
are to be used whether or not the Jestifying conditions are present
would - to - to be a state sistake, because it would happer
year freedom of action and sight miss approhousions with respect
to our fisml policy which would seriously damage the public credit
and faith is the vision of the aste of this Administration.
Faithfully yours,
- FORWARDED TO ADDRESS
The President,
the mate I
- SERCE OF THE SECRETARY
Taken by Sey Margarether
12/19/39
1:00 P.M
(COPY:FE:JPS)
312
AMERICAN CONSULATE GENERAL
No. 28
American Foreign Service, Eanoi, Indochine,
December 19. 1939.
Subject: Transshipment of Cargo from
Haiphong to Rangoon.
The Honorable
The Secretary of State,
Washington.
Sir:
I have the honor to refer to my despatch no. 23 of December 4, 1939.
in which mention was made that, as a result of the closing of the Dong
Dang-Namming road and in consequence of the far from bright future for
the Caobang road, certain steps were being taken to transship cargo now
at Haiphong to Rangoon. As confirming this mention. I have to report that
I as reliably informed that the Chinese are endeavoring to charter a number
of ships for this purpose.
A concrete case may be of interest to the Department. The SS. SKIM
CITY arrived in Haiphong on December 16th with petroleum products and 60
trucks for China. The ship's agent has informed - that even before the
ship arrived in Haiphong negotiations were started to arrange the transshipment of the trucks to Rangoon. Other organisations, such as the Fee
Shing Trading Company, are actively negotiating for transshipment of such
of their cargo now at Haiphong.
Despite the public optimism of the Chinese, who claim that the Japanese
victory in Kwangsi is but a temporary success and that transportation by
road will be restored in the not too distant future, these active
313
segetiations for treasshipment from Balphong to Bangoon are indicative
of the actual feeling which prevails as regards Imagei - that a
Chinese counter-offensive my be - but not to the extent of
restoring road transportation within a reasonable period.
Inspectfully yours,
For the Cansal at Shigon,
CHICAGES s. REED II,
American Consul.
Original and 2 copies to the Department
Copies to Chungking and Fedging
Copies to Consulates, Kunning and Salges
Copy to Consulate General, Honging
515.4
(Copy)
#
December 19. 1939
314
To:
Secretary Morganition
From:
Mr. Lockhead
my
TIN
Chinese animal production
13,000 Tons
Less domestic commption
3,000 Tons
Balance
10,000 Tons
(At approximately $1,000 a ten -
$10,000,000
!UNGSTEX
Chinese asmal production
Fungstes Ore
(This is latest estimate
based - present transportatiem facilities and night be
10,000 Tons
increased to 12,000 tens
under favorable conditions)
Less pledged to Passia
Less pledged to Great Iritain
5,500 Tens
500 Tens
Less sales to France
1,000 Tons
Balance
3,000 Tons
(At approximately $1,000 a tax -
$3,000,000
Note: Tangates is controlled by the National Resource Committee of
China and the latest information available is that they have
a total of 7.000 tens of Antimery at the Part of
Treach Info-Skim. The French Government has requisitioned
this material but premises to pay the Chinese Government its
value. No figures are available as to the proportion of
Tragates and up this 7,000 teas.
STRICTLY CONFIDENTIAL
TREASURY DEPARTMENT
INTER OFFICE COMMUNICATION
W
315
DATE December 20, 1939
TO Secretary Morgenthan
FROM Mr. Cochran
While in New York on Monday. December 18, I called on Mr. Leroy-Besulieu,
is accordance with the instructions of the Secretary.
I explained to Mr.Leray-Beamlies that on the preceding Friday we had asked
Mr. Piesent, Financial Counseler of the British Embassy. to come to the Treasury,
and had there given his an oral message for communication to his Government.
Since there is no immediate urgency. and since Mr. Leroy-Beaulieu was not in
Washington on that date and I plans were to visit New York on Monday, it was
decided preferable to have me speak with him personally, rather than write or
telephone our message.
I referred to the recent heavy sales of gold to the United States, by France,
as well as Great Britain, without mentioning any specific figures. I also re-
mericed that it appeared that British sales of dollar securities were slackened,
while France had not yet even taken title to privately owned dollar securities
in the hands of French citizens. I suggested that these factors might weaken
the Secretary's position vis-e-vis the opponents of the Administration gold purchase policy. I asked Leroy-Beaulies to endeavor to ascertain from his Ministry
of Finance the extent of the dollar requirements of his Government over a period
of months, preferably covering the next year. together with an indication as to
how the dollars would be acquired, specifying as nearly as possible the proportion
in which gold or securities would be sold to obtain such dollars.
stated that he had just received a message from his people
instructing him to give them some idea as to dollars that would be required to
complete the purchasing contracts on which he is now working. He was going to
turn this information in shortly. E said be would submit the Secretary's re-
quest immediately. He hoped to have a preliminary answer within the next few
days, but warned me that this might be very indefinite because of the lack of
concrete plans and information on the part of his people. He added that he will
depart on January 2 by clipper to spend one week in France. He hopes to see the
Secretary before his departure and will thus have the benefit of a full understanding of the Secretary's views before arriving in Paris to report to his own
people.
Leroy-Beaulien has the personal idea that the French Government prefers to
utilize the secret gold holdings is its Stabilisation Fund before resorting to
Testing and selling privately owned dollar securities, and before drawing upon
the actual reserves of the Bank of France, which are still indicated in the weekly
statement of the Bank. That is, be thinks borrowing by the French Government will
be easier as long as there is no appearance of taking over private securities or
of distmishing gold reserves in the Bank of France. For obvious reasons, they
prefer that the enesty should have no concrete evidence of the extent to which
-2French financial resources are being drawn upon.
316
The gold which has been sold us since the franc weakened in August and
since the war purchases assumed big proportions has come exclusively from the
Stabilization Fund. I believe this fund amounted to about 20,000,000,000 france
at the outbreak of war, or the equivalent of some $450,000,000 at the present
rate of exchange. Two recent shipments of gold from France to the United States
via Canada would account for $225,000,000, or one-half of the fund's capital.
Km.P.
-
Liresey widsendus
Copyo State Dert heply (bever)
317
M.P.
December 18. 1939
me
DEPARTMENT OF STATE
WASHINGTON
reply refer to
891.51/525
The Secretary of State presents his compliments
to the Honorable the Secretary of the Treasury and
encloses a copy of a paraphrase of telegram no. 155
of December 6, 1939 from the American Legation at
Tehran with reference to a loan which the Iranian
Government would like to obtain in the United States.
Enclosure:
From Tehran, no. 155,
December 6, 1939.
RECEIVED
- -
DEC 19 1939
TREASURY DEPARTMENT
Secretary
the
Olice
of
.
a
PARAPHRASE OF TELEGRAM RECEIVED
FROM: American Legation, Tehran, Iran
318
NO.: 155
DATE: December 6, 1939, 3 p.m.
CONFIDENTIAL
It is now stated by the Ministry of Finance that the
Government of Iran would like to obtain in the United
States a loan of $40,000,000 or $50,000,000. He requests
that the Department assist him in this regard. The loan
would be guaranteed by oil royalties and Medjliss would
make the authorization. Amortization within ten years
would be arranged. Approximately one half of the amount
borrowed would be spent in the United States for airplanes
and military supplies, rails, locomotives and other rolling stock.
ENGERT
3038
EA:EB
December 19, 1939
Present:
319
Minister from Finland, Mr. Procope.
Minister: I thought a few facts would be of
interest to you to know, as you promised, as you said
you
would take up the matter about the loan with the
President.
I went last week, Saturday, to New York to discuss the question about the Relief Fund. I met Mr.
Hoover first, for the first time now since the War
broke out. At the same time I met a lot of other
people who are not directly in favor of the Relief
Fund collecting money, because they think we ought
to -- the money ought to be collected for help, direct
help in arms, call for armaments. He said -- we dis-
cussed -- I asked Mr. Hoover if he thought part of the
money he gets could be diverted for that purposes. How-
ever, we agreed that it is impossible to finance a war
in that way, but he expressed his most positive sympathy
for every thought of a loan from this country. I did
not mention the fact I discussed that with you. And
he used this - I told him -- he said that he, in order
to make, to finance the war, we need a loan, yes, I said,
but the loan is impossible to get for the time being in
Wall Street. "Yes, I understand that. It is not possible to get that through private collections. That
I knew and I have even stopped people who liked to col-
lect money for that purpose, because I don't think it
is much use. Then he said the following: this collecting of money, credits in the country is so strong that
it will make it possible for you to get a loan.
And then I had a meeting with one of I friends,
whose name I can't disclose. He says that he had had
occasion to contact - one of the Republican leaders up
on the Hill -- Mr. Bloom and this gentlemen said that
this Administration, in order to back up Finland, will
not be criticized by him or McNary nor Borah, which astonished me.
HM,Jr: That's encouraging.
-2-
Minister: I like to tell you this.
320
HM,Jr: That's encouraging.
Minister: Someone told me that you were the
man
who
is sitting
upon
allthat.
the arms in this country!
I never
bothered
you
about
HM,Jr: No. Whoever told you must be wrong.
Minister: It was a man down in New York. "If
you like to have arms in this country you had better
come to the Secretary of the Treasury."
HM,Jr: He must be dreaming.
Minister: Because that is the other hope I have
HM,Jr: No; he must be dreaming.
Minister: .... to get some arms out.
HM,Jr: No. He must be dreaming. No. The
State Department directs you to wherever you should go
to talk about armaments.
Minister: Yes. I have been already. I have
seen the War Department and I have seen the Navy.
You have not had opportunity to see the President
yet?
HM,Jr: No. No. I hope to see him today. I
have not heard.
Minister: I hope you can help us.
000-000
THE WHITE HOUSE
WASHINGTON
321
Special Treatment
few talk u.f. to Latectives me Reynolds
The Fuget= = The Buget
shoke to Frank mustly
about namel case
boys
clarle
is
working
mandwer to the etter
gave
Pas
miss
Midmer
memo on what-
MYSHIP CLOU
THE MHLIS HONEE
work me
0.
Hanes letter 15
BqA
List of Securities
A
Peter Hand - artist
Walter Frohen
chicago
To of g.P.2 P.M. form
Ed Muble writely
business refort
BK230
M
18-2011/1939
URGENT
godby 7.10. R. TREASURYINTER
silently
DEPARTMENT the atcobinet
OFFICE COMMUNICATION
DATE December 19, 1939
Secretary Morgenthau
TO
322
Miss Michener amm
FROM
Subject:
Amount of wheat owned by Federal Government and
available for sale.
Wheat owned by the Commodity Credit Corporation as of
December 7, the latest date available, totaled 1,832,199
bushels. The figure had been reduced during the first seven
days of December by about 800,000 bushels, through sales to
the Federal Surplus Commodities Corporation, and has probably
been further reduced since December 7.
The FSCC, as of December 18, owned 4,194,1 bushels of
wheat acquired from the CCC, under contract permitting the
wheat to be sold only for export, or to be distributed for
relief purposes in the form of flour.
In addition, the following wheat is under control of the
Government, but not available for sale:
For use in paying indemnities under the crop insurance
program, the Government on December 16 held 11,694,090 bush-
els of wheat in storage, to which may be added 97,861 bushels
*
of unfilled purchases creditable to the wheat insurance stock.
Wheat owned by growers but pledged against the Government
1939 wheat loan with the CCC and with banks, as of December 9,
totaled 162,964,951 bushels.
A small amount may still be outstanding on past due notes
under the 1938 wheat loan, but this loan has been practically
all liquidated through sale by growers to the CCC, and trans-
fer of title to the FSCC.
December 19, 1939.
323
Ky dear Mr. Velless
Yes will remember that yesterday you telephoned my office
is order to expedite the headling of the papers connected with
the Cabas Trade Agreement. I was did to comply with your no-
quest and to have those papers expedited in handling I signed
them yesterday afternoon and hope that they reached you propily.
It has happened once or twice before that there has been a
similar request to expedite matters of importance. On tracing
the papers connected with the Cubea Trade Agreement, I found
that they had only arrived in the Treasury yesterday murning.
and 18 was impossible, therefore, for - to study or even read
them carefully before I signed them. It was also impossible for
anyone else in the Treasury to study or to discuss the contents
with no.
May I ask that in the future, whomever 11 is possible to do
so, you allow us to have a week or tea days for the handling of
such mitters? It would be such appreciated if you could comply
with this request.
Sincerely,
- FORM ANDED TO ADDRESSEE
-
FROM OFFICE OF THE SECRETARIE
Reserable - Vallee,
Under Segretary of State,
Weekington, a. c.
By Message
12/20/39
9:45 a.m.
December 19, 1939.
324
ity dear Mr. Velless
You will remember that yesterday you telephoned my office
in order to expedite the handling of the papers connected with
the Cuban Trade Agreement. I vas did to comply with your request and to have those papers expedited in handling. I signed
them yesterday afternoon and hope that they reached you promptly.
It has happened once or twice before that there has been a
similar request to expedite matters of importance. On tracing
the papers connected with the Cabas Trade Agreement, I found
that they had only arrived in the Treasury yesterday morning,
and it was impossible, therefore, for - to study or even read
them carefully before I signed them. It was also impossible for
anyone else in the Treasury to study or to discuss the contents
with mo.
May I ask that in the future, wheaever it is possible to do
so, you allow us to have a week or tea days for the handling of
such matters? It would be mach appreciated If you could comply
with this request.
Sincerely,
(Signed) E Morganthau Jr.
- FORWARDED TO ADDRESSEE
FROM OFFICE OF THE SECRETARY
Fenerable Summer Velles,
Under Secretary of State,
Washington, D. C.
TREASURY DEPARTMENT
#
INTER OFFICE COMMUNICATION
DATE
December 19, 1939
TO
FROM
Secretary Morgenthau
E. H. Foley, Jr.
325
The question has arisen as to the circumstances under
which the President would be required to make specific recommenda-
tions in the Budget to Congress with reference to increasing the
limitations on the public debt or for providing other new sources
of revenue.
The relevant parts of the provisions of the Budget and
Accounting Act, 1921, are, as they appear in the Code:
U.S.C. title 31, sec. 13. "(a) If the esti-
laated receipts for the ensuing fiscal year contained
in the Budget, on the basis of laws existing at the
time the Budget is transmitted, plus the estimated
amounts in the Treasury at the close of the fiscal
year in progress, available for expenditure in the
ensuing fiscal year are less than the estimated expenditures for the ensuing fiscal year contained in
the Budget, the President in the Budget shall make
recommendations to Congress for new taxes, loans, or
other appropriate action to meet the estimated
deficiency. # * **
U.S.C. title 31, sec. 14. Whenever such supplemental or deficiency estimates reach an aggregate
which, if they had been contained in the Budget,
would have required the President to make a recom-
mendation under subdivision (a) of section 13 of this
title, he shall thereupon make such recommendation."
The foregoing sections require the President to make
recommendations to Congress for "new taxes, loans, or other appro-
priate action" only when there is an "estimated deficiency." There
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326
is no "estimated deficiency", within the meaning of those sections,
unless estimated receipts from all available sources, including
amounts which can be borrowed within existing debt limitations and
other amounts in the Treasury available for expenditure are less
than the total estimated expenditures for the ensuing fiscal year.
In other words, so long as the Budget can be balanced by borrowing
within existing limitations or by using other available funds, such
as the Treasury working balance, the President would not be required
to submit any recommendations with reference to increasing the public
debt limitations or for providing other new sources of revenue.
E.N.77
FROM STATEMENT OF THE FISCAL AND MONETARY ADVISORY BOARD, PRESENTED
TO THE PRESIDENT BY SECRETARY MORGENTHAU, MR. BELL, MR. FREDERIC
DELANO AND CHAIRMAN ECCLES, DECEMBER 19, 1938.
327
"In pursuit of the objective of attaining a higher national
income we make the following recommendations with respect to fiscal
policy for the next fiscal year:
"1. If taxes are to be increased, those selected should
be such as interfere least with additions to the aggregate income of the American people. These taxes, among
others, are: estate taxes, gift taxes, lowering tax
exemptions as personal income rises, higher income tax
on middle brackets.
"2. We advise against new taxes which operate to reduce
substantially consumer purchasing power. These taxes,
among others, are: processing taxes, sales taxes,
taxes on payrolls, excise taxes."
EXCERPT FROM THE PRESIDENT'S BUDGET MESSAGE
OF JANUARY 3, 1939.
328
"A year ago I recommended an increase in work relief, public
works, and other related expenditures to check the downward spiral
of business. The program undertaken at that time has contributed
materially, I believe, to the existing upward movement of business
and employment; and I feel that the business men and farmers and
workers of the country, no less than the unemployed, are entitled
to an assurance that this program will not be curtailed arbitrarily
or violently.
"The actual cost of work relief and similar expenditures goes
down after jobs are found by the workers on these rolls. A violent
contraction, before the natural expansion of private industry is
ready to take up the slack, would mean, not only human misery, but
a disruptive withdrawal from American industry of a volume of purchasing power which business needs at this time. The necessity of
increasing Federal expenditures a year ago to check a recession is
a well-known fact. Any decision to decrease those expenditures now
that recovery has just started would constitute a new policy which
ought not to be adopted without full understanding of what may be
the result."
"I believe I am expressing the thought of the most far-sighted
students of our economic system in saying that it would be unwise
either to curtail expenditures sharply or to impose drastic new taxes
at this stage of recovery. But in view of the addition to our public
expenditures involved in the proposed enlarged national defense progran and the program for agricultural parity payments, for which no
revenue provision has yet been made, I think we might safely consider
moderate tax increases which would approximately meet the increased
expenditures on these accounts. It should be added, however, that
it is my firm conviction that such new taxes as may be imposed should
be most carefully selected from the standpoint of avoiding repressive
effects upon purchasing power.
"Sound progress toward a budget that is formally balanced is
not to be made by heavily slashing expenditures or drastically increasing taxes. On the contrary, it is to be sought by employing
every effective device we may have at our command for promoting a
steedy recovery, which means steady progress toward the goal of full
utilization of our resources. We can contribute very materially toward that end by a wise tax program.
-2-
329
"I an recommending the reenactment of the excise taxes which
will expire in June and July of this year, not because I regard
them as ideal components of our tax structure, but because their
collection has been perfected, our economy is adjusted to them, and
we cannot afford at this time to sacrifice the revenue they
represent. If the Congress should at this session adopt new taxes
more scientifically planned to care for the defense and agricultural
programs, it is quite possible that the existence of these new taxes
will enable us in's later year to give consideration to abolishing
some of the present excise levies."
EXCERPTS FROM ADDRESS, JUNE 16, 1939,
before
HARVARD BUSINESS SCHOOL ALUMNI
330
As to the question of taxes, I believe that our tax-system
local and national, is as much of a crazy quilt as our banking system.
Both reflect a planless, piecement growth by verious authorities over a
long period of years, with little or no regard for the economic and social
affects. Both urgently need a complete overhauling directed toward
simplification, coordination and avoidance of duplication. Both require
that WO agree upon objectives to be pursued by public authorities in the
light of changing economic conditions.
As to tax deterrents, I, too, should like to remove those teres
are discouraging new investment. On several occasions I have expressed
it view that corporation taxos should be simplified; that greater latitude
should be allowed businesses in carrying forward losses and that capital
losses should be deductible from business operating earnings; that the
should permit consolidated returns for corporations; that we should abolish
tax-exempt securitios; that our ostate tax system should be improved by reducing exemptions and opportunities for avoidance; that the rates in the
middle income brackets should be incronsod--that is, on incomes of from
throu to fifty thousand dollars C year; and that the besc of the income tax
should also be brondened by reducing exemptions.
However, in my judgmont, the most important tax deterrents on
business activity are those texos which beer directly or consumption. And
therefore, the most important case enform reduce comedeption
=
331
taxes, which are, including Federal and State,
than in 1989. This could increase the purchasing power of consumers and
stimulate the markets for business and industry. Such a reduction in taxes
should be made up-since I think no one will angue that we should reduce
revenue--by taxes that will fall in large part or those individuals and
corporations whose incomes tend to increase the already large volume of idle
funds.
It is beyond dispute, I think, that consumption taxes fall too
heavily OC the great masses of our people. & recent round table group,
gathered together by Fortune angazine, all agreed that the present tax sys
tem bears too heavily on the lower income groups because of excise and sales
taxes. Various studies that have been made by the Brookings Institution,
the National Resources Committee, and other groups, all indicate that the
great majority of our people at the bottom of the income scale would consume far more if they had the purchasing power. It is not among these people
that idle funds accumulate, but in the numerically smaller groups, less than
10 per cent of the population, whose income taxus are low relative to the
British scale and that prevailing in most other countries.
The tax revisions I have outlined would tend to stimulate consumer
buying power, and thus require production of more goods which, in turn, would
Bean greater employment, and as the especity of existing plant was roached
would open the way for using otherwise idle funds for investment in new
productive facilities. To my mind. this is the sert of tax program we need
&: this time. It would be both economically sound and socially equitable.
332
There has recently been brought to - attention a compilation
of the balance sheets of 153 companies. The cash holdings OF this group
increased from the middle of 1937 to the end of 1938 by $174 millions, or
by 55 per cent. This was money within from the income streem--money
paid in by consumers but not passed back to them in wages, dividends or
lower prices. I am not for a ament questioning the right of corporate
executives to increase or decrease their cash holdings at will, but we
MUST recognize that when great STATE are withdrew in this or other ways
from the income stream it inevitably means a slowing down unless it is
affect through outlays by other businesses or by having the Government
take up the slack.
A reasoned appraisal of our economic situation compels me to
WATER against the illusion that the reduction of taxes that fall on us as
business men would solve on fundamental problem of idle men and idle
and On the contrary, the requirements of a sounder and more stable
enanomy will, in my opinion, cell - us in our own interest to provide
relatively more rather them less of the total tax revenue as a means of
mistaining and increasing consumption and thus of preserving existing in-
and paving the way for - investment by providing a profitable
outlet.
What we, as business mm, should be interested in is what we
paid. We are for better off with high
taxes
low taxes and low incomes. For example,
+
333
national income increased from less than $40 billions in 1932 to approximately
$70 billions in 1957. Tax receipts of the Federal Government increased from
about $3 billions for the fiscal year ending June 30, 1933, to about $6
billions for the fiscal year ending June 30, 1938. The country paid about
$4 billions more in taxes but it had $30 billions more of income a year out
of which to make these payments. I leave it to you to decide which level of
income and taxes you would prefer.
Fith the clower tempo of our national growth, and being DOE
3 creditor and not a debtor nation in need of capital, TO must devise
DOLLIS to enlarge the domestic market for our products. To do this TE
need a better balanced distribution of our national income, which in
turn involves the study channeling of additional funds into the
hands of those at the lover end of our income scale.
I have already indicated in an earlier part of it talk the
kind of revision in our tax system that would seen to me to be
necessary in order to increase the funds in the hands of consumers and
to diminish the problem of finding investment outlets for accumulating
funds. in some countries, as in England, this has been done, and the
flor of income there is maintained with & smaller volume of investment,
because a larger proportion of the income has been diverted to cmsumers through such higher income taxes on the groups with incomes
from 3,000 to $50,000, and through adequate old-age pensions, when-
ployment insurance and other social services.
Perhaps the most important single step that can be taken now to
increase the purchasing power of consumers and thus to diminish the need
-5-
334
for investment outlets is to revomp our present old-age Foourance program.
Under this plan by the end of this year it is estimated that there will have
been collected from payroll taxes $1.7 billions, this burden falling almost
entirely on consumers, whereas, practically nothing has been paid out in
benefits. It is so constructed as to collect taxes from young men now with
a view to taking care of them when they become old. This system needs to be
so revised as to provide a reasonable pension to old people immediately, re-
gardless of whether or not they have contributed to the fund. This would not
only meet a great social need and popular domand, but would also be a sound
economic measure at this stage in our economic life.
The present plan is operating as a gigantic saving device st a time
when there is a surfeit of saving: it is decreasing consumption when we have
inedequate consumer buying power. It would be appropriate to a copital-poor
country where a curtailment of consumption was necessary in order to divort
more resources into the making of plant and equipment. It has no possible
economic justification, however, in our capital-rich, consumption-poor economy.
Payroll taxes in England amount only to 60 per cent of old-ago
pansions, the remainder being financed out of general revenues. Through
the stimulation of consumption, England has boon able to sustain a high
level of activity with less capital expenditures than formerly.
(Dictated December 19, 1939)
335
Bill Douglas told me at lunch yesterday that
opinion of the people he talked to was that they would
like to see increased taxes in order to help balance
the Budget. That they are worried as to how all of
these expenditures are going to be paid for, and, therewhen he was out in Oregon last summer, the universal
fore, they would like to feel that they are paying for
it now. He said that he wanted to talk to the Presi-
dent about this, but before doing so he wished to consult with me.
I told him that I would be glad to defend pubto pay for the extraordinary part of our rearmanent
licly raising an additional $1 billion taxes in order
program.
He said knowing that I was in sympathy with
what he had to say, he was going to recommend it to
the President.
IS BUDGET VESSAGE
Present:
Mr. Gaston
336
December 19, 1939.
4:15 p.m.
Mr. Hones
Mr. Blough
Mr. Heffelfinger
Mrs Klots
H.M.Jr:
The President wanted us to see if we could
refinance the Pamama Canal, call in all their
outstanding bonds and get out a new set of
bonds and help pay for the new locks. They
are going to cost 23 million dollars. Did
you work with Bell can the budget?
Heffle'r:
Some, yes.
H.M.Jr:
Would you have the thing going so that he
Heffle'r:
I don't think we could call in the outstanding
bonds. They are not callable yet. I don't
believe there is any authority to issue new
could talk to - about it tomorrow!
bonds.
H.M.Jr:
The Secretary of Tar said it three times now.
I would like to either look it up or kill it.
How about the new locks, 23 million dollars?
The whole lock system is going to cost 273
million dollars. Would you mind doing it?
Heffle'r:
I will look into it and have it for you in the
morning, yes sir.
(Mr. Hefflefinger left the conference)
Banes:
Are you all sett
Yes, sir.
H.M.Jr:
Cancel your appointment?
Banes:
I was just trying to get this crowd together to
dinner with - tonight, but I guess I am glad
I didn't invite them.
H.M.Jr:
I realize that what I - going to say isn't
going to make sense, but at least it is as
intelligent a report I can give of what took
H.M.Jr:
place at the President's today, see. At lunch
-2-
337
the President said to me, "Have you got a tax
message ready for me," and I said, "No, you
didn't ask for any tax message. "Well, haven't
you got it? You have been working on it for
three months." I said, "No, we haven't got a
tax message." He said, "Well, how am I going
to tell Congress how to raise the taxes? I
said, "Well, you never had any message that I
know of.* Is that right, Herbert? You worked
on all of these.
Gaston:
Not quite right. In 1936, the President said
that we needed so much additional revenue to
replace the lost processing taxes and certain
other lost revenue and specified how he thought
the revenue ought to be raised.
H.M.Jr:
I knew you would remember.
Now, I said, "If you want us to do something, we
can prepare a statement for you indicating along
what lines, but I don't think you ought to tell
Congress what kind of taxes - I think that is
their job." So he said, "All right, now
Now, this is partly him and partly me. He said,
"Give me a message . I mean, this is partly -
this is what came out of it. You have been to
those things and Gaston has, with the President,
and when he starts with something you don't know
whether he is trying to feel your pulse or your
teeth or something to tell you it is pretty hard,
but this is what came out of it. "Give me a
message indicating to Congress that I want them
Gaston:
H.M.Jr:
to raise 'X' hundreds of millions of dollars in
addition, and I want it to come from that group
that can afford to pay it the most and it will
fall on the group the least...'
That can least afford to pay it.
That can least afford to pay it. In other words,
he didn't use the word "sales tax" but that is
what he had in mind. Then he said, "I want to
tell Congress that - the last two or three years
in my message, each year I have asked them in
either this message or a substitute for a
definite amount to pay for the parity payments,
-3-
338
and he said, "I think Congress owes me four or
five hundred million dollars."
Gaston:
H.M.Jr:
That is about what it was, 441 million or some-
thing like that.
As I say, this is an awfully hard job, Johnny,
because he was talking fast and then what he
told - I have got to skip a minute - what he
told the Cabinet - he made them a little speech
in which he said, leaving out the budget, which
is roughly 500 million dollars, he said, "I am
within two or three hundred million dollars of
balancing the budget with a normal deficit."
Then he laughed. He said, "I want to start the
figure, one billion nine, and so forth and so
forth. What he has got in mind is, with the
"8" budget, his deficit right now amounts to
two billion eight, you see, so he is trying to
finagle me to raise my estimates, which I can't.
Se is trying to get a couple of hundred million
dollars out of Wallace to sell some cotton, which
is possible, of the Cotton Commodity Credit. I
don't know whether that goes back to the money
we borrowed or whether that goes back to those
fellows. What he needs, you see, he needs 800
million dollars. Now, what I think, Johnny -
I say, you can cross-examine me when I get through
and ask me what the hell I am talking about and
I will try to tell you.
He wants to indicate to Congress that they owe
him four or five hundred million dollars, because he has asked for it repeatedly to make
up parity payments. I don't know whether that
statement is correct. I think that is one let's put it - that is in one pocket, one state-
ment he wants to make.
Them I think on another piece of paper we ought
to have another statement which would be a message
saying to Congress that in order to finance this
"B" budget - whatever it is, four hundred or five
hundred million dollars, but it has had nothing
to do with back payments - "I believe that Congress
should study," and so forth and so on, "the best
ways that they should raise it," but the President
4339
wants to indicate into what groups he would
like to see it fall. I tried to get out of
him his time schedule, because he hadn't
gotten from the Budget Bureau our latest estimate - he did no work on this over the week-
end. After years of experience, I know he
stops working on Friday before Christmas and
you can't talk to him until after Christmas.
I said, "What is your time schedule," and he
wouldn't tell it to me. But I thought if you
would carry this ball, see - you can crossexamine me when you get through and Roy can,
too - and I would like to have something that
you and I could look at tomorrow morning. You
don't mind my crowding you? I have done this
every year myself at this time of year. I
will be ready at 10:00 o'clock, if you will be,
to have something to sit down with - just us,
you see.
Hanes:
All right.
H.M.Jr:
Do you want to examine me? Does what I say make
Hanes:
I would like to get clear in my mind - you say
H.M.Jr:
that he wants to get "X" millions of dollars.
Well, it makes a lot of difference what that "X"
is. Is it 500 million or is it 800 million or
is it a billion, because I think we ought to
set some figure, at least, in our minds.
I would say that it is not to exceed his "B"
Hanes:
I am not familiar with this "B" budget.
H.M.Jr:
The "B" budget is the catch-all for the extras
sense?
that he says he wants to indicate to the Congress
budget.
of the Army and Navy, which I understand is somewhere between four and five hundred million
dollars.
Hanes:
That was my understanding, too, of what the
armsment was, was 500 million dollars outside.
Now, that - of course, it makes a lot of difference how we approach this thing. If we
-5-
340
are going
to try to collect five or eight
hundred
million
H.M.Jr:
I think this is what his problem is: At the
present time his deficit is 2,8. He wants
to get it just below 2. Some place or other,
he is going to try to squeeze 800 million
dollars. As I say, he first started off - I
don't know whether he was trying to find out
whether we had some secret tax message, you
or I, or some program that we could simply
say, "Here it is, Mr. President," but he
switched on me so fast, that is why I an not
clear, and then he has got this idea of - well,
there it is, four or five hundred million that
Congress owes him and then he has got - than
he wants to somehow or other raise the difference between 2 and 2,8. He hasn't yet seen
the final figures from the Budget Bureau.
Now, what else do you want to ask met That be
Hanes:
has got to do is, either by cutting down his
expenditures or raising new money, he wants to
wipe out 800 million dollars, that is the problem. That is his problem. He wants to wipe
out 800 million dollars.
You don't think be wants us at this time to go
into specific detail about how to do this job!
It is merely to get a statement together laying
before the Congress the desirability of raising
new taxes to accomplish these two objects?
H.M.Jr:
Yes, and from what groups he would like to see
it raised, and from what groups he would not
like to see it raised.
Hanes:
I see.
H.M.Jr:
Roy?
Blough:
H.M.Jr:
Blough:
This is the budget for the fiscal year '41?
That is right.
So it wouldn't make any difference whether the
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341
taxes that were imposed were very productive
in '41?
'42 and '43, it has got to be productive
in
E.M.Jr:
Deston:
It has got to bring down the thing from 2,8
to 2. Now, again tomorrow it might be 2,8
or it might be 2,7, but I EXIT thinking outloud
and going back to what be said to the Cabinet,
the thing that I wanted to read, 1,999,999,999
etc. I want it just under two billion dollars.
That is a very vital point Boy raises. If it
were out of income taxes and they were only
applied to the calendar year 1940, be would only
get 55% of them in the fiscal year, so you would
have to levy taxes at the rate of E billion E year
to get five hundred million in the fiscal year.
F.M.Jr:
What I thought was that if we did something so
that I could call = Fa Natson and say, "Now,
Hanes and I have got something cm & piece of
paper, when would the President like to see it!"
Does what I say make sense to your
Klotz:
Hanes:
Gaston:
It certainly does.
It certainly does.
I think you were a little value, because the
President was & little TEGDE on whether be
wants the four hundred million to make up
for the parity payments that be never got
plus an additional five hundred million to
take care of the "B" budget or whether be
wants just the five hundred million to take
care of the "8" budget.
H.M.Jr:
He doesn't know himself, but what be does know
is that he is carrying $ deficit figure of
two billion eight and be would like to get it
below two. That he knows.
Gaston:
I don't see how the commodity credit thing
is any good, because they have got securities
outstanding that they are morally bound to
satisfy.
E.M.Jr:
He took my statement cm the debt limit and
says, "I don't want to argue about it."
He said, "that am I going to do about it,"
and I said, "I don't inconclusive that you have got
to do anything in this message." But be didn't
7342
give me all this stuff and it didn't excite
calm and friendly like. That is the best
that I can give it and I told him this, that
him or anything else. Everything was very
whatever he wanted, if he would let me know
when he wanted to see me I would be available
and that you would be available.
Bloughs
Should we in this section, this separate proposal
on the parity payments - the fact that Congress
owes him the money and so on - is that intended to
also - would you think it would be better to
include reference to this year's parity payments,
that they are not in the budget and that if any
are
put in, Congress would have to raise the funds,
too.
E.I.Jr:
I guess so.
Castom:
That stuff is in the 33 and 140 budget message.
Are we referring to the parity payments for
Bloughs
E.N.Jr:
'41, that is the question.
No, because if I understand correctly - you
see I am at a great disadvantage because heretofore as we approach this terrific time of the
year the Director of the Budget keeps me posted
as we go along, you know, and here we are and I
don't know - I am going to call up Harold Smith
and ask him, just tell him what we are doing,
would he keep us posted. Have you got a headachet
Eases:
Yes
E.N.Jr:
After I have talked it out, I think I see what
he has in mind. The thing that is bothering him
is the eight hundred million. You (Hanes) will
organize your own shop as to how you need, but
I thought if Roy could get the description
from me be might want to ask some questions.
Eames:
Do you want us to be prepared also with figures
and facts about how to raise this money as well
as the words to go on the budget message?
E.K.Jr:
I think this, Johnny: I think you ought to have
it. You and I ought to have it when we go over.
Personally, I am going to urge the President not
to put it in his message, see. I think he would
-8 -
343
be in a such stronger position if he leaves
it to the Committees in the Senate and House.
Hanes:
H.M.Jr:
Fanes:
I think it would be an awfully bad mistake.
I have gone out on the end of the limb saying
the Treasury has no tax program and I don't
know
that
rest of
it.there is any tax program and all the
The papers say there is a secret one. I don't
know who has got the secret.
E.K.Jr:
That is Mrs. Klotz, she has it.
(Conversation with Mr. Smith follows:)
(On phone) Hello
December 19, 1939.
4:35 p.m.
H.M.Jr:
Earold
Hello
Smith:
Mr. Secretary.
H.M.Jr:
Harold?
S:
Yes.
H.M.Jr:
Are you where you can talk?
S:
Yes.
H.M.Jr:
Well now let me tell you in strict confidence what
344
happened with me and the President, see?
S:
H.M.Jr:
Yes.
I'll tell you first and then maybe you'll come clean
with me.
S:
All right.
H.M.Jr:
At lunch the President asked me whether we had a tax
program for him and I said, "No", that he hadn't
asked for any. Well I'll try to make it short
because he approached it two ways. He's asked us to
prepare a tax statement for him. He seems to think
that his deficit at present is two billion eight
including the B budget.
Yes.
H.M.Jr:
I don't know whether that's right or not, but that's -
he had some piece of paper.
S:
Did he give that to you?
H.M.Jr:
Yes.
S:
He gave you the paper.
H.M.Jr:
S:
H.M.Jr:
S:
Well he gave me the figure of two billion eight.
No, but he didn't give you any details on it.
Well he was reading from his sheet and he - but he
did not give me the paper.
Well, that's what I want to know.
-2345
H.M.Jr:
S:
H.M.Jr:
No, I won't cheat. I say I won't cheat.
Well it wasn't that, I thought you should have it.
Well, now, here's the point, if I understand it.
He said he wants to get it just below two billion,
the deficit and he wants us to prepare a message,
I take it to find, either he's going to try to save
two or three hundred million out of the eight
hundred million or he wants to raise what he can
save in the form of taxes, see?
S:
Yes.
H.M.Jr:
Now he didn't seem to have the revenue figures
which we sent over to you Friday night.
S:
H.M.Jr:
S:
No, because we haven't had a chance to discuss it
with him.
So Hanes 18 going to work on this this evening and
after all if he is two or three hundred million
dollars off, the sooner I know it the better.
Yes, Well that's the reason I think now we gave
him - he rushed us and we gave him a tentative
statement on the expenditures just before he left
for Hyde Park .
H.M.Jr:
Yes.
S:
And I told him now we want - we haven't quite those were guesses, some of them based on - we
haven't cleared all the budgets, some of them based
on last year and we'd want to have a little time
to revise those. Now we pulled forty million
out of the works program since he saw the figure.
H.M.Jr:
S:
H.M.Jr:
I see.
And so I'd like to have a chance in the next few
days to revise those expenditure figures or maybe
we can give them to you in the rough tomorrow
because when he talks of two million eight that's
based upon, as I see it, with the figures,
expenditure figures we gave him, that's based upon
your earlier estimate of revenue which was six three.
Oh!
-3S:
346
And in so that he - I think he still has that perhaps
mini. I don't
know
getthe
his two eight
otherwise,
except
hewhere
did tellbe'd
us in
deficit down to two
we we found out that the
that it took nearly five million
he was went wanted so obligated along the eight. works beginning Well program as
dollars to continue the projects without any new
ones. I mean five hundred million.
H.M.Jr:
Now what -
S:
So that in order that,you're thinking in the same
terms as apparently be is, I think I should get
these expenditure figures to you.
I think you should, but now let me get this - let
me just THE the figures that the President is
H.M.Jr:
using, for the moment.
S:
Yes.
H.M.Jr:
He said two eight.
S:
Yes.
H.M.Jr:
S:
H.M Jr:
Did that include the five hundred million for the
B budget.
The two eight as we presented the thing to him,
your two eight is deficit. Now we only expend we only presented to him the expenditure figures.
I see.
S:
So the expenditure figures do include the B budget.
H.M.Jr:
Yell -
S:
H.M.Jr:
S:
H.M.Jr:
S:
And if he says two eight then he's still thinking
of about six three for revenue rather than your
revised figure.
Yell the thing that we gave you is just under six.
That's right.
So it morns the deficit is about three one.
Yes. It BEENS that he's off and is giving you
-4a two eight because H.M.Jr:
S:
347
What's that make your expenditure figures? Nine one.
Let me see. That would make the expenditure figure -
that is pulling the old age fund out of both sides,
well
on the expenditure basis for 441 it's eight five
two eight.
H.M.Jr:
Eight five -
S:
Two eight.
H.M.Jr:
Two eight. Now does that include the B budget?
S:
That includes the B budget, but it does not include
the old age reserve which is out of both sides.
H.M Jr:
Yes.
S:
Now the appropriation figure is, well this debt
the appropriation figure for 42 is comparable is
eight one seven eight. But then when you add debt
retirement it gives 41 eight seven six four and
then we put in on the expenditure side just the
nominal hundred million which brings the other
figure up for 41 expenditures of eight six two eight.
I think I'd better get these over to you even in
retirement, you know more about it than I do, but
the rough.
H.M.Jr:
All right.
S:
Because that's evidently what he -
H.M.Jr:
Yell because after all if we're three hundred
S:
million dollars Yes, if you're off it's too bad.
H.M.Jr:
Well -
S:
I'll get started with that right away.
H.M.Jr:
We can't do an intelligent job.
S:
That's right.
H.W.Jr:
And I'm going certainly keep you informed, hour to
hour what I'm doing here on the revenue end.
- -5 348
S:
Well, we - I think we'll - we can recheck these
expenditure
now and get them to you 80
they'11 be figures
-
H.M Jr:
S:
Could I get them the first thing in the morning
Well I think so, let - I'll get a hold of Lawton
and see if we can revise these according to the
changes that have been made. This is very tentative,
and
I think we can get then to you possibly by ten
o'clock.
H.M.Jr:
Well if you could, 1f you could make that the
S:
Yes.
H.M.Jr:
Could you?
S:
Yes, yes, I'll do that.
H.M.Jr:
Well thank you.
S:
All right.
H.M Jr:
Thank you - Hello.
S:
Yes.
H.M.Jr:
Have you given the President the deadline when you're
S:
You mean the -
H.M.Jr:
The budget.
S:
deadline.
going to send this thing to the printer?
No, of course some of it is being printed up
currently, with the final message and so on. of
course he hasn't done any work on -
H.M.Jr:
Well that's what I -
3:
We're only shaping it up.
H.N.Jr:
S:
I gather he hasn't done anything on it over the
weekend.
No that's right. And we're just shaping up some
ideas for him and we want to have some conferences
-6-
349
on
them
but of
as work.
far as the message goes he hasn't
done
a lick
H.M.Jr:
Well I tell you what I think I'll do. I think
I'll send you over, well I don't know - if the
question of the debt limit comes up, see?
S:
H.M.Jr:
Yes.
I'd like it - I told him how I feel about that, I'd
appreciate if you'd talk to me about that.
S:
Yes, all right, sir.
H.M.Jr:
Thank you.
S:
All right.
H.M.Jr:
Goodbye.
S:
I'll get this to you. Thanks.
9H.M.Jr:
350
Well, there you are. It is just as bad as it was
every other year. As the thing approaches, it
gets wilder and wilder. You (Hanes) didn't go
through this last year, did you?
Hanes:
I went through it right up until the last minute
when you were writing the message. That is the
part I missed. I would have missed that anyway,
if I had been here.
H.M.Jr:
Well, there you are. Now, you know everything
that I know. You know everything that Harold
Smith knows and what he doesn't know, so from
now on --
Blough:
H.M.Jr:
It is a beautiful job. We have got to raise
eight hundred million dollars.
I did a little testing on my own, see. I did
a little testing on my own. I wanted to see
how the President felt on this thing and I
gathered - of course, everything that we are
saying here is a quadruple secret. I don't
think he wants to ask for a - his top limit
on taxes is five hundred million dollars.
I did a little testing. He was testing me
and I did a little testing on him. I don't
think he would go above five hundred. The
reason, Herbert, was, I wanted you to know
about this because you had been through this
before. I don't expect you to work with these
gentlemen tonight, but I would like you to sit
in tomorrow again. You have been through so
many of these things with me and you could help
Johnny and be available. I don't want you to
sit up tonight, because you worked all Saturday
and Sunday.
Gaston:
I like the smell of it.
Bx230
December 19, 1939.
12:52 p.m.
Captain
351
Collins:
Good morning Mr. Secretary.
H.M.Jr:
Hello Captain. Anything happening on that new Board
that I ought
lunch?
C:
to know before I see the President at
Oh, Mr. Secretary, why there was only - I will send
you at once the report that I sent to Mac concerning
the work that was done for the Finnish Government.
H.M.Jr:
Ohl
C:
What time are you going sir?
H.M.Jr:
Well I'm going over there now, in ten minutes. I can
read that later on.
C:
Sirt
H.M.Jr:
I can read it afterwards.
C:
Yes. Well I'll send that over to you, sir. I should
H.M.Jr:
probably have done that, it was I tell you what you do - let me just think how I can
C:
I can send it to the White House and ask them to
get that -
H.M.Jr:
bring it in to you, sir.
That's - that's right. That's right. Do that.
C:
I'll have it on the way right away sir.
H.M.Jr:
Fine. What else?
C:
Well that's all sir, the only meeting we had - this
meeting last week and that was on this case of the
Finnish Government, most of which however had been
cleaned up before it was presented to the Board.
H.M.Jr:
Well I'm amused - this is strictly between us, but
General Watson asked whether he could bring
General Arnold and Colonel Burns over to see me.
Hello C:
Yes, sir, I'm listening.
H.M.Jr:
To talk about this Board, and I said yes provided
-2352
thatwhat
the President
out
he's done. o.k'd it, so I'm going to find
C:
H.M.Jr:
Yes, sir.
C:
I said I wouldn't see him unless the President
approves it.
Yes, sir.
H.M.Jr:
What would they be wanting to see me about?
C:
H.M.Jr:
C:
H.M.Jr:
C:
Well they wanted to go back over there as they lost
the first round, now they're in for the second round,
presumably. They still wanted to go back.
I see. Why is Arnold so interested in this?
Well, on account of the aeroplane end of it.
I see. Is this Brewster plane any good?
Well, it's - it's a new product, it's supposed to be
pretty hot. The Navy had a contract you know. They
had a test plane there and they had a contract.
H.M.Jr:
C:
Well you can find out for me.
For them, and then they decided that they would have
to make a change which permitted them to dispose of
the ones that they had on hand at the moment to the
Finnish Government. It's a technicality but it
permitted them to take - deliver some of their
earlier planes.
H.M.Jr:
Did Mrs. Eletz phone you?
C:
Sir.
H.M.Jr:
Did Mrs. Klotz phone you?
C:
I can't hear you sir.
H.M.Jr:
Did Mrs. Klotz phone you about the Brewster?
C:
No sir.
H.M.Jr:
Well I'll tell her that I talked to you about the
other thing. I was curious to know what kind of
-3-
C:
H.M.Jr:
353
a plane it 18. Do you think you can find out?
Oh yes, I can get all of that.
And - I'd like to know, I mean I wouldn't stir up
anything but 1f you could find out, let me know.
C:
Yes, sir. Well Mr. Secretary, oh well, both the
planes - there was no ordinance available at all
of course.
H.M.Jr:
C:
No I mean what is it a single motor, 80 forth and
so on?
No, she - well she's a fast fighter. I can get all
the dope on that. It's a Navy plane, it's not an
Army plane.
C:
Well get it for me, no hurry about it.
Yes, sir. Yes, sir.
H.M.Jr:
O.K.
C:
All right, sir.
H.M.Jr:
Thank you.
C:
Goodbye.
H.M.Jr:
December 19, 1939.
354
H.M.Jr:
Hello.
Operator:
Mr. Traphagen hasn't come in but he said he'd be in
H.M.Jr:
Well don't bother me now, all these things on split
seconds I - get him today.
by five minutes of one.
0:
All right.
H.M.Jr:
Is Mrs. Klotz talking
0:
Yes, she is.
H.M.Jr:
Who to.
O:
She's talking to Mr. Swope of the Silver Noxygen
Company.
for me.
H.M.Jr:
Oh. Well I didn't want to break in -
0:
Yes.
H.M.Jr:
As soon as she's through talking, I'll ring the
O:
All right.
bell when she goes, I want her.
2. MBB NEWCOMER ROOM 57
ROOM 43
Bx230
December 19, 1939.
4:55 p.m.
Mrs.Klotz: Hello.
355
Operator: Go ahead.
Is that Mrs. Klotz?
Arthur
Purvis:
K:
P:
Hello Mr. Purvis. Yes this is she.
Oh Mrs. Klotz. Just before Mr. Butterworth left,
he telephoned me up and said that there might be
a possibility of helping in regard to a particularly
important requirement of the Air Ministry in
K:
P:
England for aluminum extruded bars and tubes.
I see.
And I understood that it has arisen out of, probably
out of some discussion that Kennedy had had when
he came over to Washington. Of that however I am
not sure.
K:
P:
K:
I'm not a bit familiar with it Mr. Purvis.
I wonder whether - here 18 my difficulty. May I
put it to you this way?
Please.
I have now received from London the particular
material that they are terribly anxious to get and
it's true that the urgency is as great -
K:
P:
I see.
As they thought. Now, Mr. Butterworth telephoned
to Washington and ascertained that my proper course
was to send this information to, when it came,
he had to fly off to England of course, was through
Mr. Collins.
E:
Mr. Collins, yes.
P:
As he is head of the new group.
K:
Yes.
P:
Now on the other hand that group head has not yet although I know he's appointed, we haven't had the
-2356
K:
P:
K:
P:
K:
official information about it.
That's right.
And I am very anxious to get this very urgent thing,
especially in view of the offer of help
quite high quotas with the aluminum corporation.
Yes.
I'm anxious to get that information to the proper
quarter, and really what I'm seeking the Secretary's
advice for is whether I send it to him - this cable
that's come in showing exactly what we'd like to get,
if it is possible for that offer to be fulfilled, or
whether I should send it to Mr. Collins, with whom
I might be in slightly improper relations because
I haven't yet had an official word that I should be
in contact with him.
Mr. Purvis, my advice would be to send it to the
Secretary.
K:
I couldn't be very far wrong on that.
Not a bit.
P:
Shall I put it in an evelope to you. Would -
P:
so that you would open it.
K:
Yes I'll open it, I'll see that he gets it.
P:
I'm ever so much obliged.
P:
That's all right.
I'll send it tonight.
K:
Thank you. Goodbye.
K:
0x230
357
December 19, 1939
Jake Viner told me that the State Department
have asked those manufacturers who have processes
for making octane gas in Russia and Japan to immedi-
ately withdraw their experts. The head of one of
these companies is a friend of Jake Viner's in Chicago and he is very much upset because they have
long-time contracts and stand to lose a great deal
of money. He wanted me to know it and also whether
I could offer any advice and I said no.
I gather that A. A. Berle 18 handling this.
DIC230
CLIMAX MOLYBDENUM COMPANY
500 FIFTH AVENUE
NEW YORK
358
TELEPHONE PENNSYLVANIA 6-8787
MINE AND MILL CLIMAX COLORADO
CABLE ADDRESS "MOLTRDENUM" NEW YORK
December 19, 1939
Secretary of State
Department of State
Fashington, D.C.
Attentions Mr. Joseph C. Green, Chief
Division of Controls
Dear Sirs
Your letter of December 15, 1939 enclosing copy of the statement made
by the President at his press conference December 2, 1939 has been received. We
are informed that the letter and statement are to be interpreted by us to apply,
for the present, to Germany, Russia and Japan. We shall, of course, be guided by
our Government's policy.
We have no open contracts with Russia.
Regarding Japan we have a contract with Mesars. Balfour Guthrie & Company
of See York City for 10 tons of Molybdemite Concentrates to be shipped not later than
January. This contract is based on an offer which we made on December 5, 1939 and
chich was accepted by Nears. Balfour Guthris & Company on December 7, 1939.
Regarding Germany, we have contracts expiring on December 31, 1940 with
three Gerata firse covering their total Holybdenun requirements except such quantities
as they may be able to purchase through clearing from Norsay, Sreden and Finland.
These three firms are - I. G. Parbenindastrie, A.G., Frankfurt, Gesellschaft fuer
Dectronstallurgie, Berlin and Heresan c. Starck, A.G., Berlin. Under our contracts for
with these firm we are obliged to mistain consignment stocks at European ports
withdreal by them is accordance with their requirements.
the beginning of the ser we advised our German customers that the we were
- longer able At to ship - consignment, but that we were prepared to deliver railroad bills material of
to them - - f.a.s. 9. S. port basis, payment terms - cash against at the out
lading. There required only a small quantity of Molybdenum on consignment September. Since
break of the ear. This was withdress within the first three weeks is of due to the Allied
then we have been asked to sake any further deliveries. This in fact suspended.
Mockada. Our not contracts, therefore, shile legally still in effect, are
Very truly yours
CLIMAX MOLYBESSUN COMPANY
Max Schott
President.
wroft of letter to Clearak
359
You will have - from recent newspaper reports that the sural enburgo
as urgel by the President in his statement of December 2g 1939, released to the
press on that day, has - boss extended so as to instade almine and analybdam
We are now in reseipt of a communication from the Department of State,
Washington, D. C. enclosing a copy of the President's statement above referred to
For your information we herewith quote the full test of the communication from
fashington, as well as of the President's statements
(QUOTE)
We understand that this moral enburge extresse Russia, Germany and Japan.
We have advised our State:Department that we shall be guided by our
Government's policy.
In view of the many inquiries from stockholders and investment houses is
the - of stockholders as to the possible effect of this enburgo on the sales of
your Company, and in order to enable stockholders to form their - judgems, have decided to give you the following information
On the basis of actual figures for the first 11 months of 1939 and of our
estiaste for the month of December we arrive at total sales for the year accounting to
27,145,000 pounds of this total 15,690,922 pounds Malybiese were shipped
to Germany, Insein and Japang 6,200,000 pounds Holybiess is our estimate of total
domestic sales for the year 1939, the balance amounting to 5,254,079 pounds Halybieses
is made up of sales to foreign countries not included in the moral As to the effects of this enhange on your Company's business, - are not is
a position to make reliable protistions oning to disturbed world conditions. Bourney,
we deen is proper to inform you that - have born advised by our customers in countries
which are not effected by the - that their estimated requirements for the year
1940 are - 5,000,000 possible in excess of their purchases for the year 1939.
Our demotic business has - as uponed treat during the year 1939.
PARAPHRASE OF TELEGRAM RECEIVED
M
FROM: American Legation, Stockholm, Sweden
360
DATE: December 19, 1939, noon
NO. :
310
As of interest to the Department, I was informed by
the Governor of the Riksbank this morning that the Swedish
Minister to the United States has been given instructions
to make informal inquiries of the Secretary of the Treasury
as to whether it would be agreeable to the Government of
the United States for a short-term loan to be floated
through a bank in America by Sweden. The loan which is
contemplated, the Governor told me confidentially, would
amount to $100,000,000 which would be paid back during a
period of from 2 to 5 years. The gold and foreign exchange
account in the U.S. of Sweden has been reduced to a total
of approximately $140,000,000, he added.
STERLING
EA:MSG
PARAPHRASE OF TELEGRAM RECEIVED
FROM: American Embassy, Paris, France
DATE: December 19, 1939, 7 p.m.
NO.: 3001
FROM MATTHEWS.
361
Mrs
FOR THE TREASURY DEPARTMENT
I just got back to Paris after having had a most inter-
esting three-day trip to the front. This trip included a
glimpse of troops from the German Army 200 yards away at the
German end of the bridge over the Rhine at Kehl, and several
hours in the largest fortress in the Maginot Line. I also
had a ride through the deserted city of Strasbourg, and
SAW the review yesterday by Prime Minister Chamberlain and
Gamelin of a mixed battalion of French and British troops, which
took place a dozen kilometers behind the present front.
I can say that the morale on the French front is excellent, judging from personal conversations with and observa-
tions of both officers and men. I include in this the young
artillery captain who took me through the turrets of the
fortress mentioned above; this captain has been in the fortress
since the 20th of August and since that date has not once been
outside his subterranean home - the men, however, get six
days out each month. It is the expectation of most of the
officers that the war will be long and hard, and that a serious
military defeat is necessary for Germany before there will be
a collapse in that country; they did not profess to know when
and
- 2-
362
and how the latter 1s to come. Both officers and men are in
general kept too busy with the work of the day to think much
about how and when the end is to come. What particularly
impressed me was that paternal relationship between officers
and mem SD unique with the French army, and the imitation of
hich would completely undermine discipline in the army of
any other country. The soldier in the French Army knows
very well that his officer knows his job thoroughly, that he
will do his utmost to protect his men, and that he will share
both dangers and hardships.
There was some snow and the weather was cold; however,
many areas are still flooded and the ground is far too soggy to
permit in the opinion of most (9) there any important operations
on the French front very soon. The Germans, on the other hand,
here increased the size of their local patrols recently, as
vell as the intensity of their attacks on the outposts of
the French. According to stories that we heard, the details
of all French troop movements seem to be known to the Germans,
without even announce them correctly over local radios in advance
of the movements.
I had lunch today with Robert Masson, who is the managing
director of the Credit Lyonnais. He said that he had spent
some months in Russia as a member of a French military missi on
at the time the Kerensky Government was in power. Masson 18
fully
363
-3-
fully convinced, as a result of his experience at that time,
of the fundamental weaknesses of the Russian war machine, and
the dearth of real officer material in the Russian Army.
The Finnish campaign has more than vindicated the correctness
of this view, he feels, but he is afraid that unless the Finns
receive help from the outside in the form particularly of antitank guns and munitions, they will be crushed soon by the
sheer weight of numbers. Masson seemed to be particularly
indignant at the unrillingness of Sweden to give Finland more
help, but he did realize of course the difficult position
Sweden is in, in the face of threats from Germany.
END SECTIONS ONE TO FOUR INCLUSIVE.
BULLITT.
EA:LWW
JT
GRAY
364
PARIS
Dated December 19, 1939
Rec'd 6:40 p.m.
Secretary of State,
Washington.
3001, December 19, 7 p.m. (3ECTION FIVE)
An instruction of the Foreign Exchange Office published
in the Journal Official of DECEMBER 17 clarifies the obli-
gations of banks with respect to the declarations of foreign
holdings to be made under Earlier decrees (our telegram
No. 2912, December 6, 7 p.m. and opevious). It SEENS designed to make more accurate the necessary French inventory
of actual holdings abroad through the avoidance of duplications in declarations. Where banks hold assets abroad as
investment of their own funds they should so declare them
but where accounts are administered for their clients as such
they should be included in the owner's declaration and not
in the banks. Banks should not, therefore, mention in their
declarations of holdings abroad "assets which belong to their
clients or which constitute the counterpart of accounts openEd in the name of their clients or deposits made by their
clients". They are instructed therefore not (repeat not) to
declare the following.
BULLITT
EMB
CK
GRAY
Paris
365
Dated December 19, 1939
Rec'd 7:50 Pell.
Secretary of State
Washington
3001, December 19, 7 p.m. (SECTION SIX)
(A) *Credit balances in foreign currencies with their
correspondents abroad or with their agencies and branches
abroad to the extent that they represent accounts in
foreign currencies of their depositors or other USES of
funds abroad of the same accounts; (B) securities in their
dossier abroad held Either for the account of their clients
or for the account of other intermediaries whether these
securities should or should not be declared by their OWNERS
according to whether they are considered as exported or as
repatriated; (c) checks, drafts, bills of lading, coupons,
subscription rights, certificates and movable securities
handed OVER to them by their clients for transmission
abroad for collection, negotiation or transfer whether
detained in France or abroad or in the COURSE of being sent
abroad; (D) gold and foreign Exchange held on deposit for
the account of their clients whether or not the progrittor
is held to make a declaration. (END OF SECTION SIX)
BULLITT
JRL
EMB
CK
GRAY
366
Paris
Dated DECEMBER 19, 1939
Rec'd 6:33 p.m.
Secretary of State
Washington
3001, DECEMBER 19, 7 p.m. (SECTION SEVEN)
(E) foreign bank notes purchased from clients to be
CEdEd to the Bank of France or to the Foreign Exchange
Office but still held by approved intermediaries Either
because they have just been purchased or because they are
provisionally held in virtue of an authorization of the
Bank of France or of the Foreign Exchange Office; (F)
generally speaking all holdings abroad or credits abroad
which the approved intermediaries hold in the course of
their professional activity Either provisionally or definitely and continuously so long as these foreign assets do not
CEASE to be the property of their clients."
Today's JOURNAL OFFICIEL publishes a decree setting
up a permanent consultative committee to assist the Minister
of Armament D'Autry in technical and industrial questions
presented to it by the Minister. (END SECTION SEVEN)
BULLITT
JRL
EMB
JT
GRAY
367
PARIS
Dated December 19, 1939
REC'D 7:40 p.m.
Secretary of State,
Washington.
3001, DECEMBER 19, 7 D.M. (SECTION EIGHT)
The conmittee is to contain several rEprEsEntatives of the
Senate and Chamber of Deputies and is designed to form
"the most flexible and Effective liaison between Parliament,
the Government and production". The Eight sections of the
committee are listed as follows: organization of labor and
production metallurgy non-ferrous metals, machinery and transformation of metals, chemical products, Electrical construction, mescellaneous industries and transfer of industries.
The securities market EXPERIENCED another moderate
selling wave today but recovered much of the ground lost
before the close. Rentes were somewhat neglected but the
trend was generally downward.
(END CF MESSAGE)
BUILITT
EMB
Peer
time Callin
taka care
5 it
this was
BK230
25 BROADWAY. NEW YORK
TELEPHONE BOWLING GREEN 9-4800
BRITISH PURCHASING COMMISSION
December 19, 1939.
368
file
/ Callen in
Dear Mr. Secretary:
Before he left for the other side, Mr. Butterworth
telephoned advising it WES understood there is an acute
shortage of aluminium extruded bars and tubes which is hold-
ing up the British Government's aircraft production program.
He stated it might be possible to assist at this end in
overcoming the shortage.
I cabled -ondon to make quite sure that the emer-
gency was vital enough to justify such a special step, asking
also for particulars of the requirements and delivery dates
if it was desired to take advantage of the offer. I have
now received the attached cable from which it will be noted
that both extruded bars and tubes are urgently required, but
that the urgency for tubes is far greater even than that for
bars.
Mr. Butterworth suggested that when the informa-
tion came through I should expose our situation through the
medium of Mr. Collins. As we have not as yet received final
official advice to make contact with ar. Collins, I feel a
25 BROADWAY. NEW YORK
TELEPHONE BOWLING GREEN 9-4800
BRITISH PURCHASING COMMISSION
Page 2.
December 19, 1939.
little diffident in doing so. I am therefore sending you
the cable in the hope that you will guide me as to hom we
might be able to take advantage of the suggestion so kindly
made.
I would appreciate very much any guidance you can
give me.
Yours sincerely,
Secretary of the Treasury,
Washington,
D. C.
369
Re your telegram of December 12th. Duralumin Extrusions in the
form of bars and tubes urgently required. Urgency for tubes is far
greater than for bars.
Ion tubes in conformity with British Standard Institution
specification
are wanted within four months or
even earlier:
1} half inch by 14
40
20
20 ton
22
Qtr.
10
20
20
1
20
30
7/8
16
30
3/4
20
10
3/4
24
3
5/8
20
10
?5/8
22
4
1/2
20
5 3/8
17
10
3/8
22
5
3/8
24
5/16
17
1/4
22
15
5
370
? L/F ? round bar in conformity with British Standard Institution
specification 541 Section 3 and Table 1 of same wanted
thin six months:
10 Ton 1/2 inch Diameter
25
5/8
25
3/4
25
1
-2-
25 Ton 1 1/8 inch diameter
25 " 1 3/16
25
1 1/4
75
1 5/16
25
1 3/8
25
1 1/2
50?
1 5/8
50
1 3/4
50
1 7/8
25
2
75
2 1/8
50?
2 1/4
50
2 1/2
50
2 5/8?
25
2 3/4
25
3
50
3 1/2
371
Following Hexagon Bars in conformity with British Standard
Institution specification 5L1, Section 3 and Table 3 of
same wanted within 6 months:
Bar for making 1/4 inch diameter machine bolt - 10 Ton
3/8
1/2
5/8?
3/4
10 Ton
10 Ton
10 Ton
10 Ton
As regards sheet. Please ascertain what deliveries can now be
given by Aluminium Company for remaining 600 tons of Air Ministry specification DTD 275 being made Alcoa work(s) Tennessee. Confirmation will
be posted. Euds.
Bx230
DEPARTMENT OF STATE
WASHINGTON
December 19, 1939
372
My dear Mr. Secretary:
Let me acknowledge, with thanks, your courteous
letter of December 15th relating to the exploration
of a proposed inter-American institution designed to
promote a greater degree of cooperative responsibility
and participation in the economic and financial
development of the Americas.
I need hardly say that I am very glad of this
indication of your view in the matter. Since Mr. White,
on behalf of the Treasury experts, is maintaining close
touch with the proceedings, I shall take the liberty
of asking him to keep you fully informed as the discussion progresses, so that we may have the benefit
of your views on the specific problems as they arise.
My understanding is that the Committee hopes to
get the matter forward so as to have a concrete
suggestion
The Honorable
Henry Morgenthau, Jr.,
Secretary of the Treasury.
373
-2-
suggestion which they may present by the first week
in February - which may or may not be possible,
depending on circumstances.
I am
Sincerely yours,
Adolf A. Berle, Jr.
Assistant Secretary
374
GRAY
HSM
Bogota
Dated December 19. 1939
Rec'd 2:30 P.R.
Secretary of State,
Washington.
147. December 19. moon.
Department's telegram No. 123, December 18, 7 p.m.
For progress and content of the law see my telegrams
133, 135, 140. Subdivision A of Article No. I gives special powers
to President for *regularisation of service of public debt and
renewal of service on loans in total or partial default on such
new bases as the executive organ agrees and the contraction of
loans to attain the ends contemplated in the present law, it being
understood that the total of new loans contracted cannot exceed
fifty million pesos or its equivalent in foreign currency. Provided: for the operations contexplated in this article and in the
other laws which authorise contraction of loans there shall be
required the prior and favorable opinion of the National Loan
Commission, which henceforth will be composed of six members chosen
three by each House of Congress.
BRATES
TWO
CSB
TREASURY DEPARTMENT
375
INTER OFFICE COMMUNICATION
DATE December 19. 1939
-
Secretary Morgenthan
FROM Mr. Metrich
In foreign exchange market experienced another dall day. The opening
qutation in New York for sterling was 3.94-3/4 at by early afternoon, it had
reacted the high of 3.95-1/4. It subsequently closed at 3-95.
Sales of spot sterling by the four reporting banks totaled $230,000. from
the following sources:
& 94,000
By commercial concerns
By foreign banks (Europe and South America)
Total
1 136,000
1 230.000
Purchases of spot sterling amounted to $380,000, as indicated below:
By commercial concerns
By foreign banks (Far East and Europe)
Total
1 206,000
1 174,000
L 380,000
Enday the following reporting banks sold cotton bills totaling $104,000 to
the British Control at the official rate of 4.02:
& 100,000 by the Chase National Bank
1 4,000 by the Guaranty frust Co.
I 104,000 Total
During the past week the belga has shown considerable strength, improving
from 194 on December 12 to .1666 today.
The other important currencies closed as follows:
French france
Guilders
Swiss francs
Canadisa dollars
.0224
.5315
.2243-1/2
12 Miscount
The Cuban peso improved from 12-5/8% discount yesterday to 12% discount
today. The better rate is probably due to the new agreement with that country
reparting sugar.
The Federal Reserve Bank purchased 44,000 belgas for the account of the
Bank of latria,
CONFIDENTIAL
-2
CONFIDENTIAL
Ye purchased
the fellowing amounts of gold from the earmarked accounts of
the banks
indicated:
$1,000,000 from the Betherlands Bank
675,000 from the National Bank of Belgium
$1,675,000 Total
376
The Federal Reserve Bank reported the fellowing shipments of gold:
$ 6,810,000 from South Africa, representing two shipments by the South
African Reserve Bank to the Federal Reserve Bank of New York
2,008,000
for account of the Bank of Sweden. These shipments will
probably be earmarked for account of the Swedish Bank.
from Norway, shipped by the Bank of Forway to the Federal Reserve
bank to be earmarked for account of the Bank of Sweden.
262,000 from Norway, shipped by the Bank of Norway to the Federal Reserve
Bank to be earmarked for account of the Bank of Norway.
155,000
from Canada, shipped by the Royal Bank of Canada, Montreal, to the
Royal Bank of Caneda, Fer York, for sale to the U. S. Assay Office
at New York.
$ 9,255,000 Total
The State Department forwarded to us a copy of a cable from the American
Consulate General, London, stating that invoices were certified for the following shipments of gold from England:
$
847,000 shipped by Samel Mentage & Co., London, to the Bankers Trust
Company, New York.
537,000
shipped by Samuel Montage & Co., London, to the Guaranty Trust
Company, New York
39,000
shipped by Mocatta & Goldsmid, London to the Banque Belge pour
l'Etranger. New York.
$ 1,423,000 Total
These shipments of gold will be sold to the U. S. Assay Office at New York.
On the report of December 13. received from the Federal Reserve Bank of New
York, giving the foreign exchange position of banks and bankers in its district,
the total position of all currencies was short the equivalent of $15,618,000, a
decrease of $1,472,000 in the short position. The net changes in positions are
as follows:
COUNTRY
England
Europe
Canada
SHORT POSITION
DECEMBER 6
$5,923,000
8,493,000
257,000 (Long)
SHORT POSITION
DECEMBER 13
$4,494,000
8,026,000
572,000 (Long)
DECREASE IN
SHORT POSITION
$1,429,000
467,000
315,000 Increase is
long
position
Latin America
Far East
All Others
Total
34,000
2,870,000
27,000
$17,050,000
464,000
3,178,000
28,000
$15,618,000
430,000) Increase
308,000) short
1,000) positions
$1,472,000
in
377
The only price fixed for silver in Bombay was for delivery January 7. The
price, less the import tax, approximated 43.59
A Dow Jones news item stated that a new rule under the Defense of India Act
for the control of the internal price of silver was announced. This new rule
empowered the government to impose upon those authorized to import silver into
British India, such restrictions as it may consider necessary regarding its use
and disposal. A similar power was conferred upon the Reserve Bank of India.
The Federal Reserve Bank of New York reported to us that silver brokers in
New York had been requested by dealers in India to make offers to them. The only
reply that was given was by Handy and Harman who stated that it would only sell
silver on bids on a dollar price basis and payment to be made in U. S. dollars.
The prices fixed in London for spot and forward silver were 23-1/2d and
23-11/16d, up 1/16d and 1/8d, respectively. The U. S. equivalents were 41.74
and 41.68
The first repercussion in New York from the reports that India would license
the imports of silver into that country was the rise in Handy and Harman's price
for foreign silver to 35-1/84, up 3/8 from yesterday. It appears that the sellers
of silver are withholding their stocks from sale, awaiting a clarification of what
the rules and regulations will be for the importation of silver into India. It
was also reported to us that one of the New York banks bid 35-3/84 for 100,000
ounces of silver. This transaction was subsequently consummated at 35-5/84 for
delivery within one month. There was also one sale of 100,000 ounces at 36$ for
delivery up to one week.
The Treasury's price for foreign silver was unchanged at 35 As Handy and
Harman's price was above the Treasury's, no purchases of silver were made by us
today.
H
CONFIDENTIAL
378
GROUP MEETING
Present:
December 19, 1939.
Mr. Hanes
9:30 a.m.
Mr. Riefler
Mr. Viner
Mr. Bell
Mr. Harris
Mr. Graves
Mr. Foley
Mr. Gaston
Mr. Thompson
Mr. Schwartz
Mrs Klotz
Mr. White
H.M.Jr:
Basil, on this Collector of Customs at San Francisco, you will have to help me out on my memory.
Are we going ahead with that or do I recommend
there should be some office there?
Harris:
The Collector, we go ahead. The Comptroller, we
are going to have a recommendation either today
or tomorrow.
H.M.Jr:
But on the Collector
Harris:
The Collector is 0. K.
H.M.Jr:
Harris:
Well, then all I do is tell you (Thompson) to
prepare it for the President.
That is right. You had the balance of Mr. Gaston's
H.M.Jr:
He said O. K.
Gaston:
Yes. Well, it is based on an earlier memorandum in
H.M.Jr:
recommendations or analyses.
the file.
If you fellows - I thought you (Viner) weren't
allowed to come to these meetings. How are you
getting along on your speech?
Viner:
I haven't started yet. I am still working on your
stuff.
H.M.Jr:
You remind me of my daughter. You don't like your
dolly, do you? My wife asked me if I was going
-2-
379
to school this afternoon and I said that was
right, referring to Cabinet.
Gaston:
I have nothing. You got my note?
H.M.Jr:
I got your note on that Farm Credit thing. When
Gaston:
H.M.Jr:
Gaston:
H.M.Jr:
I fight for an organization, I fight, but it looks
to me as though Mr. Goss was kind of squared by
telling him to hold his job. Is that unfair?
It may be a little.
Darn it all
He fell into Wallace's trap.
Goss comes around - this is on Farm Credit being
taken over. He comes to see me Saturday and says
if they take it over he is going to resign and
devote himself to fighting this thing. I said,
"That is up to you." He wanted to go and see
Farley and I said, No, he is a political man.
Go and see Wallace." He did that. Wallace said,
"I want you to stay there with the Land Bank and
all that." Goss is going to stay. Well, I can't
help it. I am going to keep on. Did you get the
same impression?
Gaston:
Yes, I got the same impression.
H.N.Jr:
What else, Herbert?
Gaston:
That is all.
H.M.Jr:
Ed?
Foley:
I have a memorandum I will let you have to put in
the budget message to meet the so-called estimated
deficiency. Danny and I talked about it last night.
H.M.Jr:
Whose deficiency?
Foley:
The President's deficiency.
H.M.Jr:
Oh, let's have it. Talk up, will you, unless you
have got a cold.
-3Foley:
H.M.Jr:
380
No, I haven't got a cold.
This is the question of what does the President
have to say in the budget about the debt limit
and Mr. Foley says:
"The question has arisen as to the circumstances
under which the President would be required to
make specific recommendations in the budget to
Congress with reference to increasing the limitations on the public debt or providing other
new sources of revenue.
"The relevant parts of the provisions of the
Budget and Account Act, 1921, are, as they
appear in the Code:
U.S.C. Title 31, Sec. 13. '(a) If the
estimated receipts for the ensuing fiscal
year contained in the budget, on the basis
of laws existing at the time the budget
is transmitted, plus the estimated amounts
in the Treasury at the close of the fiscal
year in progress, available for expenditure
in the ensuing fiscal year are less than
the estimated expenditures for the ensuing
fiscal year contained in the budget, the
President in the budget shall make recommenda-
tions to Congress for new taxes, loans or
other appropriate action to meet the estimated
deficiency. * * at
"U.S.C. Title 31, Sec. 14. Whenever such
supplemental or deficiency estimates reach
an aggregate which, if they had been contained in the budget, would have required
the President to make a recommendation under
subdivision (a) of Section 13 of this title,
he shall the reupon make such recommendation.
"The foregoing Sections require the President to
make recommondations to Congress for 'new taxes,
loans, or other appropriate action' only when
there is an 'estimated deficiency. There is no
'estimated deficiency', within the meaning of
those sections, unless estimated receipts from
-4-
381
all available sources, including amounts which
can be borrowed within existing debt limitations
and other amounts in the Treasury available for
expenditure are less than the total estimated
expenditures for the ensuing fiscal year. In
other words, so long as the budget can be balanced
by borrowing within existing limitations or by
using other available funds, such as the Treasury
working balance, the President would not be re-
quired to submit any recommendations with reference
to increasing the public debt limitations or for
providing other new sources of revenue."
Do you agree with this?
Bell:
Yes, I think it is all right. I think the estimated
Foley:
That is paraphrased there and that is what the statute
deficiency probably is used in an unfortunate sense.
says.
Bell:
It isn't in the technical sense it is used generally.
H.M.Jr:
limit is going to be exceeded.
Well, we will leave it as is until somebody raises
Foley:
Yes.
H.M.Jr:
It is good to have done it now so I wouldn't have
to get you out of bed or out of a party on the
I think it is all right. I assume that the debt
it.
Foley:
night of the 31st.
That is a bad night.
H.M.Jr:
Anything else?
Foley:
No, sir.
H.M.Jr:
We are waiting to hear from Mr. Jones, aren't we?
Cotton:
Yes. You are going to talk to Mr. Traphagen?
H.M.Jr:
on yes, that is right. Weren't you South Americans
going to be sent for by Mr. Jones?
-5-
382
Cotton:
Well, I was going - he asked us if we would get
up some ideas for him.
Riefler:
He wants to date it today.
H.M.Jr:
Why don't you do this, sort of keep it going, be-
Cotton:
cause Jones is leaving town tomorrow. Why don't
you call him up and say, can you be of any assistance or something or other or that you have got
a piece of paper? In other words, stimulate the
thing so that we get something out of Jones. I
think Jones has got an idea.
Yes, he asked us to do that.
H.M.Jr:
Will you follow through on it?
Cotton:
Yes.
H.M.Jr:
Mr. Harris?
Harris:
There was a meeting of that interdepartmental com-
mittee yesterday morning. One of the things that
they decided was that they would sell ten fairly
old ships to the British for the movement of a
large lot of lumber from the Pacific Coast. Everybody was in accordance and discussed a great many
other aspects of the shipping situation, some of
which was carried over until tomorrow.
H.M.Jr:
Well now, are you seeing that if Treasury has any
objections they file them before?
Harris:
We have Cairns there and another chap.
H.M.Jr:
Anything else?
Harris:
That is all.
H.M.Jr:
That Mr. Hull's paper, I don't even know what it
White:
Sugar?
H.M.Jr:
Yes.
White:
I only had three minutes to initial it and I didn't
have a chance to figure it out. I think it is
cost me. How much did it cost the Treasury?
-6-
383
preposterous to give us a document of that kind.
We usually have a couple of hours. I had three
minutes. I didn't know what was in it and I
just did it not to make any difficulty. I don't
know what our initials mean under those circumstances.
H.M.Jr:
Or my signature.
White:
We accept the responsibility without any
H.M.Jr:
We ough to have a week, hadn't we?
Harris:
A week or ten days. That was a very involved one,
H.M.Jr:
Well, we will do it this time and then I will file
a letter of protest and I don't think it will
too.
happen again.
White:
There is a letter here from
H.M.Jr:
Excuse me. Basil, could somebody go over and just
let me know what the darn thing would cost the
Treasury? I know it costs something.
Harris:
Yes.
White:
There is a letter here from Mr. Welles raising again
the question of getting an expert from - I take it,
it would most appropriately be from Danny Bell's
organization. This is a repetition of a prior
request with a little more insistence. Who do you
want to handle it?
H.M.Jr:
How did it come to you?
White:
Mr. McReynolds' office sent it to Mr. Thompson's
Cotton:
I had already talked with Bell about it. I presume
it is the same thing.
Give it to Thompson and let him settle it and let
H.M.Jr:
office and he sent it to me.
him say yes or no for my signature, will you please?
Thompson: Yes, sir.
-7 H.M.Jr:
Just fix me up a letter and say yes or no. I
will sign it.
Harry?
White:
That is all.
H.M.Jr:
Chick?
Schwartz:
Nothing.
H.M.Jr:
I see that some of the papers think that we are
favorable to Mr. Wallace and some think that we
aren't.
Schwartz:
It depends on who they talk to.
White:
Because I said they are throwing a boomerang at
me, they are not favorable. That was funny. I
was also sorry to learn in some of the papers
that I could have stopped the war and I didn't
H.M.Jr:
The thing, Harry, that got me the greatest - I am
glad you brought that up. I would have gone ahead
with it but Dr. White said it cost too much. oh
boy, you won't be invited to any more midnight
meetings. You are Treasury in the big way.
White:
With a world war in the offing and the question,
shall we stop it or shall we not, we will refer
this matter to Harry White, and Harry White says
no, it costs too much so let the war go on.
H.M.Jr:
I thought that was wonderful. I was waiting for
somebody to say something. I didn't want to rub
it in.
White:
I said a lot of things, but I wouldn't want to
H.M.Jr:
That appeared in the paper and Mr. Duffield's
resignation - there was no hook-up between the
repeat them here.
two, was there?
White:
No.
384
-8Viner:
Peace is expected.
White:
Peace is wonderful.
H.M.Jr:
And peace reared its ugly head. White said it
385
cost too much. That's top. Well, it helped the
bond market. The bond market went up on the
thought that Harry was for economy.
White:
So careful of Treasury expense for a change.
H.M.Jr:
Harold?
Graves:
I sent you a note yesterday telling you of the
action finally taken by the Bureau of the Budget
on our Procurement Division.
H.M.Jr:
Graves:
I didn't see Miss Chauncey yesterday.
We were notified about this just before noon on
Saturday. They gave us a small fraction of what
we had asked for to transfer temporary emergency
people now doing regular work to our regular fund.
They gave us a fraction of what we asked for to
set up a statistical unit in the Procurement Divi-
sion, but gave us nothing to extend the functions
of the Procurement Division beyond their present
scope. Mr. Smith told me that the Bureau of the
Budget would help us to pay funds by transfer from
the various agencies of the Government to permit
us to expand the work of the Frocurement Division
beginning the first of July next. Our hearing
before the House Committee on Appropriations is
today.
Now, that leaves us utterly unable to do anything
before the first of July with reference to carrying out the program that you had outlined to me.
I do feel, however, that we can make substantial
headway from that time on, although we have a very
difficult problem ahead of us in obtaining the
funds which are going to be necessary to enable
us to operate. Ee apparently are cut off altogether from extending the function of the Procurement Division to the field, purchases.
H.M.Jr:
Harold, I tell you what I would like you to do.
Get me a letter talking about the functions and
386
9-
not mentioning any money and say, "This is what
we propose to do, " and that we can't do it - I
Graves:
will write it directly to the President you see.
We were not notified, you see, until the last
minute about this thing and the House hearing
ahead
seemed
tically of
cutus,offit from
anyto me that we were pracH.M.Jr:
Can't you go ahead and ask for it at the House
hearing?
Graves:
No.
Bell:
Against the law.
Graves:
I think it is not proper for us to do that.
I don't think I will write to the President, then.
I have never done that. I don't think I will
H.M.Jr:
write to the President.
Graves:
H.M.Jr:
We can go a substantial distance.
Let's do that. I have never written to the Presi-
dent.
Graves:
H.M.Jr:
It is going to be much slower.
Let's do the best we can.
Graves:
That is my recommendation, that we put up with
this and do the best we can.
Bell:
You can go after a supplemental.
H.M.Jr:
Let' do the best we can.
Dan?
Bell:
Any deadline on that letter? Do you want to take
it with you this afternoon?
H.M.Jr:
No, I am going to give it to him at lunch.
Bell:
Well, it is all ready.
- 10 H.M.Jr:
Would you bring it in personally at 10:45?
Bell:
I think I can, yes. It is all ready, it is
387
just being run. Gaston just passed it, I
think.
H.M.Jr:
Bring it in at 10:45.
Bell:
May I discuss at the same time the allotment?
At the same time.
H.M.Jr:
Bell:
Miss Perkins is having her meeting this morning
and I understood you wanted me to attend that.
H.M.Jr:
Yes, please.
Bell:
There is also a meeting of the Board of Directors
of the Federal Farm Mortgage this afternoon. It
may be the last, in view of what is happening.
Well, Mr. Wallace receiving Mr. Gaston and me at
11:30 - he wouldn't receive us until Louie Brown
got there. According to Wallace, Louie Brown
knows all his doings.
You notice the deadline on that unqualified resignation was Wednesday morning. That is the final
deadline for him to submit his unqualified resigna-
H.M.Jr:
Gaston:
tion.
H.M.Jr:
Well, Wallace wanted it Thursday. I expect to
receive a doublecross, so I don't want
Bell:
I might get some information. That is what this
meeting is for.
H.M.Jr:
Norman?
Thompson:
I have another retirement case.
H.M.Jr:
Do you want to extend it?
Thompson:
No, that is just a letter on it.
H.M.Jr:
Anybody got anything else? Whoever is Comptroller of
the Currency this morning is coming in at 10:00
o'clock.
388
DEC 19 1939
My dear Mr. Smith:
With reference to the income certificate plan for
agriculture discussed at the meeting of the Fiscal and
Monetary Advisory Board held in my office the morning of
December 18th, I enclose a copy of a senorandus prepared
in the Treasury Department on the subject. The analysis
was based on the certificate plan as incorporated in
several bills introduced during the 1939 regular session
of Congress. It is understood that this plan differs in
- respects from the plan at present contemplated by the
Department of Agriculture.
Sincerely,
(signed) E. Morgenthan,Jr.
Recerable Harold B. Smith,
Director, Durana of the Budget,
Sachington, D. c.
R252 State sept.
By special messenger 12/19 at 4:30 PM
marked "personal and confidential.
CGH
Enclosure
- 12/19/39 RB FILE COPY
12/19 n
389
DEC 1 9 1939
My dear Mr. Smiths
With reference to the income certificate plan for
agriculture discussed at the meeting of the Fiscal and
Monetary Advisory Board hold in my office the morning of
December 18th, I enclose a copy of a memorandum prepared
in the treasury Department on the subject. The analysis
was based on the certificate plan as incorporated in
several bills introduced during the 1939 regular session
of Congress. It 10 understood that this plan differs is
- respects from the plan at present contemplated by the
Department of Agriculture.
Sincerely,
(signed) H. Morganthea,Jr.
Reserable Harold 3. Smith,
Bureau of the Budget,
Washington, D. C.
Indicate
n/
12/19/39
-
By special messenger 12/19 at 4:30 m
marked "personal and confidential."
390
DEC 1950
By dear Mr. Smiths
Wish reference to the income certificate plan for
agriculture Hand - the meeting of the Fiscal and
Monstary Ministry Smot held in - office the sering of
December 18th, I enclose . copy of a - prepared
in the treasury Department or the subject. The analysis
- based - the antifients place as incorporated is
several bills during the 1939 regular session
of Congress. Is is ministent that this plan differs is
- resports from the plan at present contemplated by the
Department of Agriculture
Sincerely,
(digital E.
Recorable Shreld a
Master, Derem of the Beign,
2. a
-
Indians
12/19/39
- "personal - --
My special assomger 12/19 at 4330 -
391
DEC 19 1939
by dear Mr. Smiths
with reference to the income a plan for
agriculture discussed at the meeting of the Fiscal and
Honetary Advisory Board held in - office the morning of
December 18th, I enclose a copy of . a prepared
in the treasury Department - the subject. The analysis
- based on the certificate plan as incorporated in
several bills introduced during the 1939 regular session
of Congress. It is understood that this plan differs in
- respects from the plan at present contemplated by the
Department of Agriculture.
Sincerely,
(signed) L Morganthan,Jr.
Researable Harold a. Smith,
Master, Durens of the Beight,
Backington, 2. c.
-
Inclosere
12/19/39
by special messenger 12/19 at 4:30 PM
CON
maked Spersonal and confidential.
392
DEC 1 9 1939
dear Dr. Currict
Wish reference to the income certificate plan for
agriculture diseased as the meeting of the Fiscal and
Monstary Advisory Board held in my office the morning of
December 18th, I enclose a copy of a memorandum prepared
is the Treasury Department on the subject. The analysis
was based on the certificate plan as incorporated in
several bills introduced during the 1939 regular session
of Congress. Is is understood that this plan differe is
some respects from the plan at present contemplated by the
Department of Agriculture.
Sincerely,
(signed)
H. Magenthau, Jr.
Renerable Carrio,
Itale
Medicineutive Assistant to the President,
Department of State,
Washington, 3. 0.
128
by spec messenger - 12/19 at 4:30 P.M.
marked "personal and confidential
12/19/39 RB FILE COPY
12/19
CGH
393
DEC 19 1939
w dear Dr. Curries
with reference to the income certifiente plan for
agriculture discussed at the meeting of the Fiscal and
Monstary Advisory Board held is my office the morning of
December 18th, I enclose a copy of a - prepared
is the Treasury Department on the subject. the analysis
was based on the certificate plan as incorporated is
several bills introduced during the 1939 regular session
of Congress. It is understood that this plan differs is
same respects from the plan at present contemplated by the
Department of Agriculture.
Sincerely,
(signed)
E. Jr.
Reservable Carrie,
Medicine Assistant to the President,
Department of State,
R. G.
Buclosure
I/
12/19/39
-
by spec.netsunger - 12/19 at 4:30 P.M.
marked "personal and confidential"
394
DEC 19 1939
m dear Dr. Currier
with reference to the income certificate plan for
agriculture discussed as the meeting of the Fiscal and
Monstary Advisory Board held in my office the morning of
December 18th, I enclose a copy of a memorandum prepared
is the Treasury Department on the subject. The analysis
wee based on the certificate plan as incorporated in
several bills introduced during the 1939 regular session
of Congress. It is understood that this plan differs in
- respects from the plan at present contemplated by the
Department of Agriculture.
Sincerely,
(signed)
H. Nagenthau, Jr.
Reservable Lenoblis Carrie,
Mediatestrative Assistant to the President,
Department of State,
Mashington, D. C.
Suclesare
by spec.messenger - 12/19 at 4:30 P.M.
marked "personal and confidential OGK
m/
12/29/39
395
DEC 19 1939
w dear Dr. Curries
With reference to the income certifiente plan for
agriculture discussed as the meeting of the Fiscal and
Monstary Advisory Board held in my office the morning of
December 18th, I enclose a copy of a memorandum prepared
is the Treasury Department on the subject. The analysis
was based on the certificate plan as incorporated is
several bills introduced during the 1939 regular session
of Congress. It 10 understood that this plan differs is
come respects from the plan at present contemplated by the
Department of Agriculture.
Sincerely,
(signed)
E. Magenthau, Jr.
Renerable Lauchlin Curric.
Ministrative Assistant to the President,
Department of State,
Fashington, D. G.
Enclosure
w spec.nessenger - 12/19 at 4130 P.M.
marked "personal and confidential" COM
10/12/19/39
96
DEC 19 1930
my dear Mr. Chairman
with reference to the income certificate plan for
agriculture discussed at the meeting of the Fiscal and
Monetary Minisory Board held is - office the morning of
December 18th, I enclose a copy of a a prepared
in the Treasury Department on the subject. The analysis
was based on the certificate plan as incorporated in
several bills introduced during the 1939 regular session
of Congress. It is understood that this plan differs in
I respects from the plan at present contemplated by the
Digartami of Agriculture.
Sincerely,
(signed) E. Morgenthan,Jr.
Reservable Marrinor s. Beales,
Matrum Board of Bovernors,
Federal Reserve System,
Fachington, R. c.
-
By spec. messenger 12/19 at
4:30 P.M. marked "personal and
confidential"
12/19/39 AB FHIE COPY
12/19
OGE
397
DEC 1 9 1939
my dear Mr. Chairmant
With reference to the income certificate plan for
agriculture discussed at the meeting of the Fiscal and
Monotary Advisory Board held in my office the morning of
December 18th, I enclose a copy of a memorandum prepared
is the Treasury Department on the subject. The analysis
was based OR the certificate plan as incorporated in
several bills introduced during the 1939 regular session
of Congress. It is understood that this plan differs in
some respects from the plan at present contemplated by the
Department of Agriculture.
Sincerely,
(signed) H. Morgenthau,Jr.
Renovable Marrinor s. Reeles,
Chairman, Board of Governors.
Federal Reserve System,
Washington, D. 0.
By spec. messenger 12/19 at
4:30 P.M. marked "personal and
confidential"
OGH
Indiana
IB/
12/19/39
398
DEC 19 1939
My dear Mr. Chairmans
With reference to the income certificate plan for
agriculture discussed at the meeting of the Fiscal and
Monetary Minisory Board held in my office the serving of
December 18th, I enclose a copy of a - prepared
is the Treasury Department on the subject. The analysis
was based on the certificate plan as incorporated is
several bills introduced during the 1939 regular seesion
of Congress. It is understood that this plan differs is
some respects from the plan at present contemplated by the
Department of Agriculture.
Sincerely,
(signed) H. Korgentime,Jr.
Removable Marrinor s. Seeles,
Chairman, Board of Governors,
Federal Reserve System,
Washington, n. a.
Indicate
XB/
12/19/39
By spec. massurger 12/19 at
-
4:30 P.M. marked "personal -
confidential
399
DEC 19 1939
my dear Mr. Chalmans
With reference to the income certificate plan for
agriculture discussed at the meeting of the Fiscal and
Monetary Minissry Board held in my office the morning of
December 18th, I enclose a copy of a memorandum prepared
is the Treasury Department on the subject. The analysis
was based on the certificate plan as incorporated in
several bills introduced during the 1939 regular session
of Deagrees. Is is understood that this plan differs in
I respects from the plan at present contemplated by the
Department of Agriculture.
Sincerely,
(signed) H. Margettes,Jr.
Securable Marriaor s. Beales,
Gairman, Board of Beversore,
Federal Reserve -
Feelington, a. a
-
12/19/39
By spec. messenger 12/19 at
4:30 P.M. marked "personal and
confidential"
OGH
DEC 19 1939
+00
My dear Mr. Secretary:
With reference to the income certificate plan for
agriculture discussed at the meeting of the Fiscal and
Monetary Advisory Board held in my office the morning of
December 18th, I enclose a copy of a memorandum prepared
in the Treasury Department on the subject. The analysis
was based on the certificate plan as incorporated in
several bills introduced during the 1939 regular session
of Congress. It is understood that this plan differs in
some respects from the plan at present contemplated by the
Department of Agriculture.
Sincerely,
(signed) H. Morgenthay,Jr.
Menorable Henry A. Vallace,
Secretary of Agriculture,
Washington, D. G.
sent by spec. messenger 12/19 at
4:30 P.M. marked "personal and
Confidential"
#1
Inclosure
Da
12/19/39 RB FILE COPY
12/19 M
CGH
401
DEC 19 1939
my dear Mr. Secretary:
With reference to the income certificate plan for
agriculture discussed at the moting of the Fiscal and
Monstary Minissry Board held is - office the morning of
December 18th, I enclose a copy of a - prepared
is the Treasury Department on the subject. The analysis
was based on the certificate plan as incorporated is
neveral Mille introduced during the 1939 regular session
of Congress. It is understand that this plan differs is
- resports from the plan at present contemplated by the
Department of Agriculture.
Sincerely,
(signed) H. Morgenthey,Jr.
Reservable Heavy A. Vallass,
Secretary of Agriculture,
Backington, a c.
sent by spec. messenger 12/19 at
4:30 P.M. marked "personal and
Confidential
COM
Redicement
-/
12/19/39
02
DEC 19 1939
My dear Mr. Secretary:
with reference to the income certificate plan for
agriculture discussed at the meeting of the Fiscal and
Monstary Advisory Board held in my office the morning of
December 18th, I enclose a copy of a neurorandum prepared
in the Treasury Department on the subject. The analysis
was based on the certificate plan as incorporated in
several Mills introduced during the 1939 regular session
of Congress. It is understood that this plan differs in
some respects from the plan at present contemplated by the
Department of Agriculture.
Sincerely,
(signed) H. Morgenthay,Jr.
Recorable Henry A. Wallace,
Secretary of Agriculture,
Washington, D. G.
sent by spec. messenger 12/19 at
4:30 P.N. marked "personal and
Confidential"
OOH
-
Inclocure
12/19/39
403
DEL 19 1939
My dear Mr. Secretary:
with reference to the income certifiete plan for
agriculture discussed at the meeting of the Fiscal and
Monstary Advisory Board held in - office the morning of
December 18th, I enclose a copy of a senorandum prepared
is the Treasury Department on the subject. The analysis
was based on the certifiente plan as incorporated in
several bills introduced during the 1939 regular session
of Congress. It is understood that this plan differs in
some respects from the plan at present contemplated by the
Department of Agriculture.
Sincerely,
(signed) H. Morganthey,Jr.
Menorable Mensy A. Vallase,
Secretary of Agriculture,
Washington, D. C.
sent by spec. messenger 12/19 at
4:30 P.M. marked "personal and
Confidential"
CON
Inclosure
n/a
12/19/39
is
DEC 19 1939
My dear Mr. Secretary:
with reference to the income certificate plan for
agriculture discussed at the meeting of the Fiscal and
Monstary Advisory Board held in my office the morning of
December 18th, I enclose a copy of a memorandum prepared
in the Treasury Department on the subject. The analysis
was based on the certificate plan as incorporated in
several bills introduced during the 1939 regular session
of Congress. It is understood that this plan differs in
some respects from the plan at present contemplated by the
Department of Agriculture.
Sincerely,
(signed) H. Morgenthan,Jr.
Menorable Henry A. Vallace,
Secretary of Agriculture,
Washington, D. C.
sent by spec. messenger 12/19 at
4:30 P.M. marked "personal and
Confidential"
CON
Beclovere
12/19/39
DEC 19 1939 405
By dear Mr. Chairment
with reference to the income certificate plan for
agriculture discussed at the meeting of the Fiscal and
Monetary Advisory Board held in my office the morning of
December 18th, I enclose two copies of a memorandum pre-
pared in the Treasury Department on the subject. The
analysis was based on the certificate plan as incorporated
in several bills introduced during the 1939 regular see-
sion of Congress. It is understood that this plan differs
in some respects from the plan at present contemplated by
the Department of Agriculture.
Sincerely,
(Signed)
H. Morgenthau,Jr.
Nenerable Frederic A. Dolano,
Chairman, Pleasing Board,
National Resources Committee,
Washington, D. . c.
Inclosure
Pen 220 State Dept
(or Mm
no
one217
in if220)
By spec. messenger 12/19 at 4:30 P.M.
marked "personal and confidential.
II/
12/19/39 RBidly
FHE COPY
406
DEC 19 1939
My dear Mr. Chairment
With reference to the income certificate plan for
agriculture discussed at the meeting of the Fiscal and
Monetary Advicory Board held is my office the morning of
December 18th, I enclose two copies of a nonorandum pre-
pared in the Treasury Department on the subject. The
analysis was based on the certificate plan as incorporated
in several bills introduced during the 1939 regular cos-
sion of Congress. It is understood that this plan differs
is some respects from the plan at present contemplated by
the Department of Agriculture.
Sincerely,
(Signed)
H. Margenthan,Jr.
Menorable Frederic A. Delease,
Chairseas, Planning Board,
National Receures Committee,
Techington, B. c.
Inclesere
By spec. messenger 12/19 at 4:30 P.M.
marked "personal and confidential.
13/am
12/19/39
407
DEC 19 1939
My dear Mr. Chairmant
With reference to the income certificate plan for
agriculture discussed at the meeting of the Fiscal and
Monetary Advisory Board held in my office the morning of
December 18th, I enclose two copies of a memorandum pre-
pared in the Treasury Department on the subject. The
analysis was based on the certificate plan as incorporated
in several bills introduced during the 1939 regular see-
sion of Congress. It is understood that this plan differs
is some respects from the plan at present contemplated by
the Department of Agriculture.
Sincerely,
(Signed)
H. Morgenthan,Jr.
Menorable Frederic A. Delano,
Chairman, Planning Board,
National Resources Committee,
Washington, D. C.
Successer
By spec. messenger 12/19 at 4:30 P.M.
marked "personal and confidential.
NB/
12/19/39
408
407
December 19, 1939
Cabinet
T
the 19. 1939
THE WHITE HOUSE
WASHINGTON
Breaking
Wants tax message
Pew
greaters Wants china to continue
to play with Russia. Jr keep
Russia and Johan apart.
give Pres. note about Schmidt
Ras. told Hull to
add nickel and tern saten
to list of metals
(orea)