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10/20/39 190A
Dear Mr. Morgenthan :-

you may not have heard
of the projected 11states
Western Conference referre l to

in this public letter from
John L. to gov. olson of
California Anna Roosevelt
+ John Boetizer have been
working on it for many

months with Howard

Contigan of the Washing ton

(state) Commonwealth
Federation gov. olson and
others liberals including

the several prominent
(over)

Hollywood writers an I screen

people comprising the

motion Puture Democratic
committee 9 am deeply
disturbed an l incense I

by which

John L's letter
by no means squares
with the facts and which
is a typical squeezeplay proposit tion politically
He conferred with no one

on this other than Lee

Pressman so for as Team

ascertain I tis ruthless
attack on marshall
Dimockhimself
who hasa really
shown
true -

brief sojourn in the 190-B
Dep partment as of Labor, and

his similar charac terization
of Norman by the (Senator
Schwellenbachis man) is,

in my opinion unforginable

and as for the Burton

wheeler sentence - well,

9 told you last night
my feelings about t that

fellow's note The

President of course, knows

all about the projected
conference, as does Jim

Farley. John L. must
know that. This letter
(over)

of his is typical of the
strong-arm political
tactus an I rule-or-ruin
policy which cause me
such acute and painful
difference of opinion with

John L. 9 talked with
him this morning

intima tely on other

matters and he didn't
mention this letter which

he had just dictated.
Y he had I would have

fought him tooth and

nail on it and will still
on the methods it
represen ts. I pass this

on : TO you before it 190-C
appears tomorrow because

& thought you might

want to know 9 'm

familiar with much of
the background of
the 11 states business which

9 think has genume
politically potential

significance 9 the

glad to tell you what
9 know if you wish me
to. 9 am frackly very

much trouble I

We had a grand time
(over)

with you last evening and

both wish there were
more like you two in
key positions.
9 will get word to

you on the other matter

of which we spoke at

will take me a few
d ayp to be sure of my

facts.
yours sincerely,

Gar dae Jackson
P.S. Excuse this scrawl which
hope you ll cast away. 9 amat
my eye doctor with drops in my

eyes so everything is hopelessly blurred

LABOR'S NON-PARTISAN LEAGUE

1037 + 1046 Earle Bldg.
Washington, D. C.

190-D
For Release, Morning Papers
Tuesday, October 31, 1939

Press Information

The following letter was today sent by Chairman John L. Lewis, of Labor's
Non-Partisan League, to Governor Culbert L. Olson of California:
"During our personal conference in San Francisco on October 15, we discussed
the proposed Conference of progressive leaders of eleven Western States, then being

organized by Mr. Norman N. Littell, Assistant to the Attorney General in Charge of
the Lands Division, Department of Justice, and Mr. Marshall E. Dimock, Second Assist-

ant Secretary of the Department of Labor. You will recall that we were in substantial agreement that these gentlemen were pursuing an unwise course by their secret

methods of organization and their exclusion of labor participation.
"Since our conference, Messrs. Littell and Dimock have continued their work
in secret and are prepared to issue the call and assemble the Conference for some

date in January, in Salt Lake City or some other convenient city. The secret agenda
for the Conference has been completed and the organizors of this Conferance are

switing disposition of the Noutrality Bill by Congress before the issuance of their
public call for the Conference.

"Labor's Non-Partisan League is opposed to the holding of this Conference for
the following reasons:

a. The source of its conception and the surreptitious manner
in which its organizers have worked.

in

b. The doubtful source of its finances. An anonymous individual in California is counted upon to provide a plontitude of money.
C. The questionable legality under the Hatch Act of the activities of Littell and Dinock.
d. The slight to Sanator Burton K. Wheeler and other great liberals

in the West who have not been consulted and who are slated to be excluded
from the Conference.

C. The exclusion of labor from the privilege of making suggestions
for a legitimate program.
boom,

f. The secret plans to uso the Conference to launch a third-term

"I doubt that the President has knowledge of or would approve the plans of
these overscalous individuals responsible for this program. Asido from his recont
public utterances, his rebuke of Socretary Wallace through a White House Secretary,
Stephen Early, should carry conviction.

"You are advised that Labor's Non-Partisan League has issued instructions to

its various Chairmen in the eleven affected states to refrain from any participation
in the proposed Conference, if later called to assemble in Salt Lake City or elsewhere.

"With my personal compliments, I am

Sincerely yours."
###

191
COLOMBIA

Suggested Agenda for Conference at Treasury Department,

A. Prospects of a successful debt settlement of Colombia's
outstanding debt.

1. Present status of debt settlement negotiations
between the foreign bondholders and the Colombian
Government.

2. How much are the foreign bondholders likely to
accept as a minimum?

3. What is Colombia's capacity to pay?

(a) Can she raise the funds internally (1) for

the Federal debt? (2) for the local government
debt?

(b) Can she raise the necessary foreign exchange?
a

4. Possibility of developing the flexible scale of
debt payments.

5. Status of sterling debt settlement.
6. Will she be able to service the New debt as well
as settlement of the old?

B. Desirability of extending credits to Colombia.
1. What are Colombia's short-term needs to meet
emergency exchange situation?

(More information needed as to the acuteness and
cause of the emergency situation.)

2. Long-term needs.

(a) For monetary stabilization.
(b) For economic development.

C. Colombia's foreign trade prospects.
1. Effect of war on Colombia's trade.
2. Long-term trends.
D. Prospect of Colombia attracting foreign private capital.

THE LANDS OF THE NEW WORLD TO BE REPRESENTED AT LIMA
UNITED STATES

THE AMERICA
CUBA

MEXICO

Their Area, Population

4,011,088

and Resource

DOMINICAN REP.

POR:

19.132.3Q.M.

AREA

PUENTO
RICO

S

BELIZE

HAITI

GUATEMAL

BR GUIANA
$9,480 10.ML

SALVABOR

DU. GUIANA
VENEZUELA

COSTA RICA

FOR 1451,677

COLOMBIA

-

FR. GUIANA
AREA

4.74010 M

FOR 30,906
B

Pacific

R

ECUADOR

#

THIM

Ocean

c

#

LIMA

BRAZIL
PERU

IT

#

BOLIVIA
a

S

HK

N

N

#
C

PARAGUAY

AREA 180.647.10

c

FOR 931,799

ARGENTINA
FOR 2.561.56

CHILE

URUGUAY
AREA 72.15350M

2065986

KEY

Cattle

Rubber

Products

Petroleum

-Wheat

Coffee

Linseed

-Cotton
6%

III
my

WOO!

Gold

Copper

Sugar

Nitrate

-Maize
Rice

of

Extract

Tin

Zinc

z

Bananas
Quebracho
EH

Silver

S

Cocoa

6

American Conference The three Guianas are not in the union.

POP 41.560,147

6500000

N

Showing the twenty-one sovereign States to participate in the Pan

T

Account

a

&

Bauxite
Mineral

M

Earth

193

TREASURY DEPARTMENT
INTER OFFICE COMMUNICATION

DATE October 31, 1939

Secretary Morgenthau

TO

Mr. White

FROM

Subject: Colombia
1.

The Debt Situation:

(a) Colombia has an internal Federal debt of 78,500,000
pesos ($45 millions) which has been serviced continually.

About one-half consists of a floating debt. About onehalf of the internal Federal debt is held by the Cental
Bank. The larger part of the bonds bears interest rates
of 6 and 7 percent although about one-fourth bears interest from 3 to 4 percent. The 7 percent domestic
bonds are now selling at about 88. The current Budget
carries an expenditure of $5 1/2 millions to service
the internal debt and external short-term debt.

(b) She has an external short-term debt of $19.3 millions

contracted in 1930 (at a time when Colombian bonds were

not marketable) which is being serviced in full. It

carries a low rate of interest and is held almost entirely by the National City Bank, 80 far as we know. It
was originally granted with conditions involving revision of budgetary procedure and alteration of the
administration of railways.
(c) The external long-term (national and municipal)
totals $159 millions -- exclusive of $55 millions of
interest arrears -- of which $82 millions is local
Government obligations. The debt is largely a dollar
debt, there being only $12 millions in sterling obligations out of $159 millions.
(d) Colombia is now in complete default on her longterm external debt -- both national and local. Partial
default began in 1931 and complete default in 1934.
Interest arrears on her defaulted national obligations

have now reached $22 millions, the arrears on local debt

are $33 millions. Full service on the national debt,

would take $4.7 millions, and on the local Governments'
debts $5.8 millions; these figures compare with a
national budgeted expenditure of $50 millions annually
and local Government expenditures of perhaps $35 millions.

194

Secretary Morgenthau - 2

Local Government external bonds have been selling for
large volume of them have been repurchased by the
local Governments but we have no definite data on

$12 to $20 for many years and it is reported that a
the matter.

(e) The present government of Colombia have publicly

stated their intention of meeting their external ob-

ligations honorably. As recently as September 28, 1939,
ex-President Lopez who was in New York with the rumored
purpose of speeding debt settlement negotiations assured
the Pan-American Society that Colombia would resume pay-

ment of its foreign obligations and that budgetary provisions had already been made. We do not have any
information as to the details of the offer made by Lopez
when he was up here last month, but it is our under
standing that the officials in the State Department
considered it a reasonable offer. Last year Colombia
offered to pay 1 to 3 percent (varying with her
export situation) with amortization suspended for
seven years, and no scaling down of the principal
on the national debt. The offer was not accepted.
At that time the Federal Government authorized the
local Governments to negotiate separate debt settlement on the condition that they did not offer better
terms than the bondholders got from the National

Government.

2. Colombia's Federal budget is in good shape.
Colombia has been operating under a balanced Federal

budget since 1935. This year it appears that she may
have a slight surplus. The structure and administration of the Federal tax system has been improved
during the past five years. The Federal revenue
during the first eight months of this year shows a
substantial increase over the first eight months of
last year ($32 millions as against $27 millions).
We have no data on the status of the State and
local public finance.
Colombia expects increased revenue from her greatly

expanded oil production which will have its full

effect for the first time next year. There will

be some loss of revenue from the reduced imports

but probably not enough to offset the gain in
revenue.

195

Secretary Morgenthau - 3

The 1940 Budget carries $1.9 millions for servicing
her
Federal debt.
That amounts
to 2+ percentexternal
of the outstanding
Federal
debt.
3. Colombia's Foreign Exchange Situation:
(a) We have no evidence, as yet, of any weakening of
Colombian exchange during the past couple of months.
Though her gold holdings declined during the first
seven months, such decline was largely seasonal.
During August she increased her gold and foreign exchange holdings by some $2 millions, bringing up her
foreign exchange assets to $24 millions, which is
approximately as much as she has had in the last few
years. We do not know her present holdings.
Her exchange has been comparatively stable at 576

on the dollar since 1935. Exchange restrictions have
been in effect since 1931.
Exclusive of the foreign exchange needed to service
her debt, Colombia needs approximately $12 millions a
year to meet her adverse balance of payments. Half of
this sum is to supply exchange for the foreign enterprises in Colombia -- chiefly Standard 011 affiliates
and United Fruit.

4. Colombia's Foreign Trade Position:
Colombia has had a favorable trade balance for many

years, but in the first six months of 1939 her imports rose by some $9 millions while her exports did
not increase. This is exclusive of gold exports.
During the first six months gold exports almost
doubled (from $6 millions to $11 millions) only
part of which arose from expanded production.

Her chief exports are coffee - 54 percent, oil -

20 percent, and bananas - 4 percent. The United
States is her most important customer, purchasing
60 percent of her exports and selling her 50 percent
of her imports. Germany was second, selling her
17 percent of her imports and taking 14 percent of her
exports. United Kingdom and Canada came next on the list.
Colombia sells much more to the United States than she
buys, while she buys more from Germany and the United

Kingdom than she sells them. Our sales to Colombia

have increased by 30 percent during the first eight

months of this year, while our purchases from Colombia
increased only 10 percent.

196

Secretary Morgenthau - 4

5. Effects of the War:
Colombia will lose her sales to Germany. Last year
these amounted to about $1 million a month, chiefly coffee,
but this loss should, during the coming year, be largely
compensated for by (a) her increased production and export

of gold, and (b) a substantial increased output of oil.

Since the United States takes 80 percent of Colombia's

coffee and Canada substantial amounts, and since Colombian

coffee is of such a quality as to be less sensitive to a

decline in coffee demand, the loss of the German coffee market should not be a serious one for her foreign exchange
situation. Altogether it would seem that a continuation
of the war should, during the coming year, leave Colombia
as favorably situated as ever.
It must be borne in mind, however, that coffee plays
so important a role in her export trade (54 percent) that
any substantial decline in coffee prices beyond their present low level would seriously reduce her supply of foreign
exchange and seriously affect her domestic economy.
6. What does Colombia need at this time?

It is possible that Colombia may be in need of a $5 or
S10 million short-term credit to tide her over the present
emergency situation. However, not having her trade figures

for the past few months nor her gold holdings since September 1,
we cannot say definitely whether she is in an acute emergency.
If Colombia does have an emergency situation she is a good

risk for a $10 million loan in view of her expanding oil and

gold industry and her general excellent economic situation.
7. Colombia needs long-term capital:

Colombia's economic situation was good up to the outbreak

of the war, her future very promising, her population large
(9 million), her feelings toward America pleasant, and her
strategic importance for the Canal great. Politically

Colombia comes closer to being a true democracy than any
other state in South America.

Colombia could, in our opinion, fruitfully use long-term

loans of $10 million a year for the next several years; extension for

improvement of her transportation system, a further

of her domestic industries, and further agricultural reform.

Colombia also is desirous of re-purchasing her railways now sub-

owned by British interests and probably would desire to
stitute a domestic debt for a foreign debt.

197

COLOMBIA

Prepared by the Division of Monetary Research
chiefly by S. G. Hanson

10 3
.

Summary

Summary

COLOMBIA

199

SUMMARY INFORMATION

Public Finance

1. Annual expenditures by national government
$50 million, by local governments $35 million.

2. Budget balanced since 1935 but this is without
servicing external long-term debt. For eight
months of 1939 revenues are ahead of 1938 and

exceed expenditures slightly.

3. Tax system improved since 1935-36. Income and
excess profits tax revamped.
4. Chief sources of revenue: Customs, 30-35 percent;
income and excess profits, 20 percent.

5. Chief expenditures: National defense, 17 percent;
debt service, 11 percent; public works, 20 percent; education, 9 percent.

6. National budget for 1940 carries $1.9 million
for resumption of service on external debt, if
it is resumed.

7. Revaluation of gold in 1938 netted 16,000,000
pesos of which half was used for paying off
government debt, five sixteenths for public works,
three sixteenths for an exchange stabilization
fund.

Public Debt

1. External long-term debt is in full default. It
amounts to $159 million, of which $82 is local

governments and $77 national government. In-

terest arrears total $22 million on national
government debt. Ninety percent is in dollar
bonds.

2. External short-term debt, largely contracted in
1930, is $19 million and is being serviced.

debt
3. Internal debt of $45 million is being serviced;
half is held by the Central Bank, Internal

did not expand notably after 1934.

-2-

Summary - Colombia

4. Negotiation of debt settlement has been badly
bungled by American bondholders' committees.

200

5. Local government issues and issues of the Agricultural Mortgage Bank guaranteed by the national
government are believed to have been repurchased
in considerable quantities by the debtors.

6. No graft or corruption attached to the original
dollar flotations, but there was much waste and

extravagance; one third of proceeds was used
productively.
Foreign Direct Investments

1. Total $150 million, of which American $125,
British $10 to $15. British largely in railways,
American in oil, bananas, mining.
2. American investment dates from World War.

3. Remission of profits was permitted during depression.
4.

Government recently rewrote petroleum code so as

to attract direct investments.

Trade
1.

In 1938, exports were $92 million, imports $89 mil-

lion. For the first six months of 1939, imports,
$55.1 million; exports, $48.2 million.
2. United States trade position very strong; we sell
50 percent of imports, buy 59 percent of exports.

Germany second with 17 and 14 percent. United
Kingdom supplies 11 percent of imports. Canada

is third best market with 9 percent.

3. Normally she has heavily favorable balance of
trade with United States, unfavorable balances
with Germany and United Kingdom.

4. Germany made great gains during the 1930's.

5. Chief exports: Coffee 54 percent, oil 19 percent,
gold 17 percent, bananas 4 percent. Germany had
taken 14 percent, being especially important mar-

ket for coffee (15 percent) and bananas (15 to
20 percent).

6. Imports during first half of 1939 were unusually
heavy partly in anticipation of war shortages
and partly for business expansion.

-3-

Summary - Colombia
201

Industry

1. Bulk of population is concerned with agriculture
although oil and gold account for one third of
exports and are increasing relative to farming.

Are still not self-sufficing for food, although
have abundant arable land made unattractive by
transport difficulties.

2. Competitive position of basic industries is
strong. Coffee is mild, used for blending,
suffers less than Brazilian in volume and price
if war softens the market. Leading producer in
world of mild coffee, and second only to Brazil
in total coffee production.
3. Bananas are American trade; much trouble with
labor and with planters.

4. Failure to break up large estates is major social

problem. Peasants' revolt in 1934 was ended with
promise of making land available for ownership,
but have failed to do 80.

5. 011 and gold are expanding under foreign ownership, largely. Platinum and emeralds have long

held important world trade position. Hides are
exported in large quantities but potential increase is small.

6. Manufacturing of consumption goods 18 expanding

behind high tariff walls. An uneconomic development. No heavy industry of importance is likely.

American-Colombian Relations

1. Relations strained for quarter of century by

Panama incident. Panama had been province of

Colombia. Its movement to independence faoilitated building of Panama Canal. Roosevelt said
"I took Panama." In 1922 we apoligized to

Colombia and paid $25 million to BOO THE feelings.
011 had just been discovered and we wanted to

exploit oil.
2. Is strong economic basis for close political relation. We take 59 percent of exports and sell

50 percent of imports. Economies are complemen-

tary. We take three fourths of coffee which is
basis of really national economy. We hold 90
percent of external debt and have made 90 percent of direct investments.

Summary - Colombia

-402

3. Signed reciprocal trade agreement in 1936.
4. She has been pro-United States at the interAmerican conferences. Powerful force for democracy. Favors belligerent neutrality pro-allies.
Has strong strategic position relative to Panama
Canal. Since her internal air transport company
is German with German reserve officers as pilots,
we have asked her to take steps adequately to

protect herself against potential effect of such
penetration.

Banking Structure

1. There is a Central Bank, 3 government-constituted
mortgage banks, 10 native commercial banks, 4
foreign banks, 3 miscellaneous credit institutions.
2. Foreign banks do perhaps one fourth of commercial
banking business. National City Bank of New York
is the American bank but its position is much less
important than our trade position merits.
3. Central Bank was established in 1923 on Kemmerer
recommendations. Was reorganized 1933. Kemmerer
recommendations much criticized as impracticable.

Is permitted by law to deal directly with public.
Government names 3 of 9 directors; holds less
than half of the stock; rest held by banks and

local interests. Its autonomy was preserved during

depression. Government borrowing from it was heavy
during 1930-34, but no increase thereafter.
4.

Government guarantees obligations of Mortgage Banks.

While the Agricultural Mortgage Bank 18 in default
on bonds, it has continued to pay interest on its
stock even if held abroad. In 1932 government
set up a Central Mortgage Bank to relieve other
banks of some of burdens of depression.

Technical Assistance
1.

Colombia has been firm believer in use of foreign

technicians. Has had Kemmerer finance advisers,
German educational mission, Swiss customs and

military missions, Belgian telegraphic mission, etc.
2. Kemmerer's work was widely criticized; much of his
recommendations proved impracticable.

-5-

Summary - Colombia
203

Foreign Exchange

1. Exchange restrictions since 1931. Heavy depreciation of peso (43 percent).

2. In 1939 had import licensing, prior permits for

imports, exchange restrictions; permitted remission of earnings; there was no free market; there
were clearing arrangements with Germany and Japan
and special arrangement with Italy.

3.

In November 1938, revalued gold, established ex-

change stabilization fund of $1.7 million,
stabilized exchange rate at 1.75 pesos to dollar.

4. Produced $1,000,000 more gold than was exported

in 1934-38. In 1939 up to August 31, gold and
foreign exchange holdings fell by $2.3 million.
Has $23 million in gold and produces $18 million
annually, with output rising.

Natural Endowment

1. Area twice that of France; population 8,700,000,
third largest in South America.
2. Lies in tropics but on the uplands where the bulk
of the population lives the climate 1s healthy
and stimulating.

3. Unfavorable topography made costly the building

of transport facilities and impeded growth of
national spirit by isolation of communities that

intensified individualistic spirits.

4.

Is close to United States (1,700 miles) and strategically close to Panama Canal.

5. Leading gold producer in South America ($18 million annually). Enormous potential producer of
oil; platinum and emerald production among leaders
in world trade; copper, lead and zino deposits
are uncertain in extent and undeveloped as yet.

6. Have no great deposits of iron, and although
coal reserves are great, future power requirements will be met by oil and water power. No
likelihood of an important heavy industry.

-6-

Summary - Colombia

204

7. Climate and soil suitable for fine cash crops of
coffee, bananas and eventually cotton and tobacco in good quantities. But are still not
self-sufficing on foodstuffs, despite much
arable land. Inadequacy of transport facilities obstructs development.

Population

1. 8,700,000; mestizo 18 dominant element; 5 percent pure Negroes for coastland work.

2. Catholic influence very strong.
3. Language is Spanish

4. Over 50 percent illiterate; Catholic influence

in education is great.
5. Have failed to attract sizeable European immigration; failure to break up feudal-like large
estates and unlikelihood of newcomer reaching
ownership of his land is obstruction.
6.
Capital is Bogota with population of 260,000.
7. Have developed amazingly strong nationalistic

spirit despite earlier individualistic spirits

of isolated communities.

8. Are a conservative people but as long as
avoid solution of land problem, there is an
easy base for stirring up unrest.
Transportation

1. Unfavorable topography and large size of country
delayed transportation.

2. 2,500 miles of railways of which 80 percent
government owned and balance British.

3. Large expenditures on roads and rails since
influx of American money in 1920's, but plans
were uncoordinated and thus much wasted.

4. River navigation is important but slow and
arduous.

5. Have plan for spending $5 million on highways
in next three years. Have been spending 20 percent of budget on public works.

Summary - Colombia

-7-

205

Political
1. President Eduardo Santos elected 1938. Liberal
Party has ruled since 1930. Like its opposition it too is made up of large landowners but
it is more anti-clerical. Adopted middle-ofroad conciliatory program. Failed to attack
land problem despite a revolt by peasants in
1934 on that issue.

2. Close approach to true democracy. Free press
and free speech.

3. Growing nationalistic spirit will ultimately

react to disadvantage of foreign capital but
meanwhile publicly proclaim desire to attract
capital.
4. Flood of new revenue from expanding oil industry will enable government to evade issues and
maintain status quo.

5. 1932-34 Leticia dispute with Peru caused expanded military expenditures, though settled
peacefully. Have been unable to deflate

military since then.

206

Recommendations

207

Natural
Resources

208
NATURAL ENDOMMENT

1. Colombia is the fourth largest country in South America
in area and third in population. Area is twice that of France,

about 440,000 square miles. Population is 8,700,000.

2. Colombia lies geographically in the tropics, but at
least one-half of the area by reason of its altitude is in the

temperate or near temperate zone climatically. The mountains and
high plateaus above the low valleys and coastlands are capable of

supporting a vigorous people. And here, at altitudes 4,000 to
9,000 feet above sea level lives the bulk of the population in a
healthy stimulating climate.

Before the white man came, the Chibchas dwelled on these same
sebanas, and the Chibchas were an honored race; they were a

vigorous well-integrated people with a considerable knowledge of
agriculture and the arts and a respected form of government.

3. Topography has been a tragic barrier to construction of
transport facilities. All the ports on both Caribbean and Pacific
are cut off from the interior by steep mountains; communication
is difficult except by the rivers flowing from mountains to the
sea. River navigation is slow and arduous, involves much loading
and unloading, and in certain seasons necessitates waiting for the
rains.

4. Tonography is responsible too for a long isolation of

various areas which caused a development of an intensely individual-

istic spirit in each region. Intense local loyalties were developed.
And yet, out of these local loyalties, long fighting for ideals
developed the present strongly-centralized government. It is a
proud achievement to have built un so strong a sense of nationality
on the foundation of so many isolated communities.
5. Topographic areas are:

a. Pacific coast - dense hot steaming forests, difficult

of access and scantily inhabited.

b. Western Cordillera - lowest and least continuous of
the three great Andean ranges.

C. Cauca Valley - famed for beauty and fertility.
d. Central Cordillera - passes are few and high; 30
to 50 miles wide and extending north some 500 miles.

209

NATURAL ENDOMMENT

(Continued - 2)

e. Magdalena Valley - long narrow valley which is the
chief but imperfect route of access to interior uplands.

f. Eastern Cordillera - here are the most important
high fertile sabanas where lives a large part of the
population.

B. Llanos or plains sloping from foot of the Eastern
Cordillera to the Orinoco and Amazon Rivers.

h. Caribbean coastal plain - hot lowlands, partly
swanp, tropical area.

6. Proximity to the Pename Canal. It is closer to the United

States (1,700 miles) than the other countries of South America,

7. It is the only country in South America with extensive
frontage on both the Atlantic and Pacific.

8. River system is of quite extensive. Interior rivers like
the Magdalena, Cauca and Atrato: and Colombia exercises sovereignity

over part of the course of the great Amazon and Orinoco Rivers.

9. The soil and climate are especially well-suited for the
production of a mild, high-grade coffee, a wide area is suitable
for bananas, and cotton and tobacco have definite expansibility here.
Sugar cane could be developed although currently the country is still
a net importer.

10. The mineral endowment is magnificent: (Note: No adequate
geological survey has yet been made.

a. Gold: Colombia is the leading producer in South
America. Historically, she has been one of the great
gold-producing areas of the world. Expansion possibilities exceed those of any other South American nation.
b. Copper, lead and zinc are known to be available,

but thus far transport difficulties in the way of opening

mines that require handling of materials on a tonnage
basis have prevented a systematic search for such deposits
suitable for modern mining methods. We know she has them

but do not know if the deposits are of commercial
importance.

210
NATURAL ENDOWMENT

(Continued - 3)

C. Petroleum: Magnificent reserves assure her a
place of prominence as one of world's great producers

of oil.

d. Platinim: One of the largest producers: for a

time was the leading producer until Russia regained
position in 1924: now challenges Canada for second
place.

e. Emeralds: Is world's chief source.
f. Building stone and clay are widely distributed, but
cement has continued to be imported because when cement

mills are in the interior, transport costs make it
cheaper to supply coastal cities from abroad.

5. Coal: Very large reserves have been reported. Often

said to be largest in South America. It is true that

coal is widely found and that where mined the coal has
been of fair steam quality and found in beds of workable
but not great thickness; it is broken and faulted and
actual mining conditions are not too favorable. It shows
signs of being satisfactory for cooking.
However, there has never been a local demand adequate

to stimulate opening of big coal mines and there is no such
known abundance of good cheap coal as would stimulate

industries. Railways and small industrial plants have been
supplies; household is very limited; homes are not heated.
Prediction is that coal will never achieve more than
local restricted importance. When power requirements rise
there will be oil and waterpower to serve.

h. Iron: Iron has been found at various points but never
in such quantities as in the great producing areas of the
world. Transportation difficulties making delivery difficult have enabled a few local centers to produce but they
cannot hope to compete and survive import competition if
ever transportation is adequate.

211
POPULATION

1. Population is 8,700,000, of which the dominant element is
mestizo. While the Indian group has been better assimilated than
in such countries as Ecaudor, there is an Indian outlook among a
large proportion of the population.
Five percent of the population is pure negro, comprising an
important labor group in the coastlands, as stevedores or workers

on the banana plantations.

2. Progress from the Indian viewpoint is in the direction
of the aggressive North American rather than the European.

3. The small group of pure whites controls the best land
and the government.

4. Catholic influence has been exceptionally strong. The
Conservative party which controlled during the twentieth century
up to 1930 was strongly pro-church. Under it the education and
politics were largely dominated by the church. The present Liberal
Government is somewhat less susceptible to church influence.
5. Language is Spanish.

6. There is considerable native pride in Bogota as the
"Athens of South America." Position as a cultured area is rather
desperately desired.

7. The flow of European immigration has failed to reach major
proportions. She has failed to make immigration attractive or to
pass laws favorable to its reception. Small-landholding is not
encouraged notably.

8. Over 50 percent of the population is illiterate. Secondary

schools are about one-fifth run by Government and 4/5 under private
control; elementary schools are in Government hands. There are 17

university faculties, 13 agricultural colleges, six schools of
dentistry.

9. Public health work has been of growing importance. Rockefeller

Institution has helped greatly in control of tropical diseases, etc.,
and in organization of the local health service. The death rate is
half that of Chile, and the natural increase double Chile's.

212
POPULATION

(Continued - 2)

10. Capital is Bogota, an inland city of 260,000; other
cities are Baranquilla 140,000; Cartagena 100,000; Medellin 125,000;
Menizalis 100,000. There is considerable difference between cities;

Medellin, for example, is said to be especially enterprising, with
its descendants of the original Spanish Jewish colony. Buenaventura

is the hottest port in the tropics, and perhaps the dirtiest.

11. For an area once so isolated in individual communities,

there is a surprising sense of nationality, a loyalty to things

Colombian, which may express itself eventually in very drastic
steps against foreign enterprise. However, for the time being,
direct investments are being encouraged.

12. The people are naturally conservative and the dominance
of the Catholic church would make for conservatism and opposition
to such radical developments as communism. Yet, the narrow owner-

shin of land has caused much unrest and in 1934 a peasants' revolt
made it clear that the land problem must be solved.

Lombia

213
TRANSPORTATION

1. Unfavorable topography, large size of the country, and
unlikelihood of developing traffic in reasonably short periods,
have checked the construction of transportation facilities.
2. There are 2,500 miles of railways of which 80 percent are
Government-owned. The British have $10 million investment in

railways. There is no single trunk line and the existing railways
serve to tie up individual centers of population to a river or
seaport or to provide communication round river bars and rapids.

Foreign railway building is confined largely to the pre-war

period. Such lines were inadequate and have been considered un-

satisfactory, so that since the World War and in the future rail-

way building must be expected to be lodged in Government hands,
probably through Government external loans.

3. During the 1920's the payment of $25 millions by the

United States Government in apology for the Panama incident, and

the flood of capital from New York, caused an expansion of trans-

ortation facilities under Government construction. In 1924 and
1925, $19 millions were spent on railway building.
4. Unfortunately, the public works programs of the 1920's

were uncoordinated and inadequately planned. For example, an

unnecessary railway connecting two valleys each of which had its
own outlet to the sea was considered advisable. As the Federal
Government tried to bore a tunnel for the railway through the
mountain range separating the two valleys, local Governmental
authorities were busy building an almost equally expensive road
over the top of the same range.
Until 1922 there were no automobiles in Bogota and no paved

streets. But the flood of New York money paved 60 miles of streets
and the automobiles came.

5. River navigation has been important, but it is slow and
arduous, involves much loading and unloading, and often seasonal

waits for the rains.

6. In 1939. the Government approved a $5 million highway
construction program for three years, although the source of funds
for this purpose was not quite clear.

7. In 1938 a railway was bought for $6.5 millions from Belgian
owners, with a credit arrangement that called for servicing regardless of defaulted debt.

214

Political
History

215
POLITICAL SITUATION

1. Tradition of political instability. There are said to

have been 27 civil wars, many constitutions. Civil wars cumninated in the three year war of 1899-1902 when fatalities ran
into the hundreds of thousands. That was the last major upheaval.
Thereafter, until 1930 the Conservative party provided firm
leadership relatively peaceful. Since 1930 the Liberal Party
has successfully maintained itself in power with a middle-of-theroad program.

2. Conservative Party is composed of large landowners and the
Catholic Church which is very strong here.
Liberal Party which fought long wars against the Conservative
Party is also composed of large landowners, but it favors greater
religious freedom and a loosening hold of the church on education

and politics. Actually since they got into office in 1930 they

have not been much more progressive than their opponents.

3. The degree to which democratic procedure prevails here

was well illustrated in the election of 1930. Enrique Olaya

Herrera, a young progressive, organized his campaign in very short

time, carried it to the extremities of the country by airplane.

Vacillation of the Archbishop who had long had preponderant influence lost him his political prestige and enabled the Olaya Liberal
Party to sweep into power.

4. In 1934 the Liberal candidate Dr. Alfonso Lopez (who has
been in this country this summer on what is reported to be debt
negotiations) was so universally accepted that the Conservatives
named no candidate and Lopez with a middle-of-the-road progressive

program, was elected with practical unanimity.

5. Shortly after Lopez came into office, there was a peasants'
revolt. Thousands of peasants driven to desperation by the ancient
system of absentee landlordism arose in armed insurrection to
demand title to the lands they and their forefathers had toiled on
under virtual feudal bondage.
Lopez issued a statement recognizing the justice of their
claims and promising reforms. He suppressed the revolt with armed

force, Actually, however, he and his party never effected the land
reforms and the feudal organization of society continues.

216
POLITICAL SITUATION

(Continued - 2)

6. Again in 1938 the Liberal Party candidate won. He is

Eduardo Santos, now President.

7. The Liberal Party program on the whole has been conciliatory, although their new constitution of 1936 permits all forms
of worship, to the great displeasure of the church group. The
Constitution also carries vague provisions for the division of
absentee-owned estates, etc., but nothing radical is likely to
be done.

8. The Communist Party showed some strength during the elec-

tions of 1934. The area is not considered receptive to communism
because the people are conservative and quite obedient to the dic-

tates of the Church. But strikes in some regions, especially

against foreign banana, etc. companies have been multiplying and
communist influence has been suspected.

9. Despite the topographical barriers and the failure of

the masses to participate with the small upper group in prosperity
of the region, there has been a growing tendency to nationalism
which does not brighten the outlook for foreign companies. United
Fruit Company influence in the banana region has been distinctly
challenged.

10. One difficulty with the coming boom in oil is that it
will provide an easy source of immense revenues for the Government

and thus prejudice the leaders to maintain the status quo, without
serious effort to settle such problems as the land problem.
11, In 1932 a dispute with Peru over Leticia caused immense

ilitary expenditures. The dispute was settled peacefully in 1934,

but not until the Colombian Government had so enlarged its military

establishment as to provide difficulties since in bringing it now

to a more practical level. Bombing planes were bought and German
and American military technicians employed. Army was largely
expanded.

217

FORM OF GOVERNMENT

1. Colombia is a democracy, paying more than lip service to

the idea.

2. The President is elected for a four-year term by popular
vote. He appoints his cabinet as well as local Government heads
such as departmental governors, intendencies, comisarios, His
term is four years.

3. There are two houses of Congress: House of Representatives
and Senate. Senators are elected by departmental assembles for a
four-year term. Representatives are elected by popular vote for a
two-year term. The House has currently 118 members, the Senate 57.

4. There are 14 departments (States) which enjoy only partial

autonomy. They elect their local legislatures and still have right

to manage their own finances. But their power to borrow abroad
without sanction of the national Government has been restricted, as
has been their power to service external debt.

5. Franchise is extended to those who can read and write and
have either a minimum income or property of specified value.

6. There is a free press which avails itself fully of its

privileges. Speech is free actually and theoretically.

218

Industry

I

219
INDUSTRY

1. Colombia is an agricultural country as far as the bulk
of the population is concerned, While oil and gold account for
one-third of exports and may increase relative to agricultural

products, the volume of employment is relatively small in these
industries. For the internal economy, coffee, livestock, domestically consumed foods, and bananas have more importance. There

is a large area suitable for agriculture but transportation difficulties cause only a small portion to be used as yet.
2. The competitive position of basic industries in world

markets is sound.

3. Coffee is a good mild quality, used largely for blending,
occupying a position in the market superior to that of Brazilian

coffee. It will suffer less in volume and price if the war softens
the coffee market. Colonbia is second to Brazil in coffee production and in supply of coffee to the United States, but it is the
leading producer of mild coffee. Native ownership distinguishes
coffee from other leading industries.
4. Banana industry depends on American exporters. Much
Negro labor has been used. There has been much agitation for

nationalization and in the industry the difficulties with labor
and with native planters have been unusually frequent.

5. Hides form a minor agricultural export.
6. Landholdings are large and there is a disproportionately
large population working on the land of others without hope of ever
achieving land ownership. The discontent of this group forms a
major social problem which is being evaded.

7. Oil and gold are expanding industries with a promising
future. In platinum Colombia is one of the world's leading producers.
8. Manufacturing has been increasing behind heavy tariff
protection and the depreciated currency. She continues to be a
heavy food importer and textile importer and would do well to expand
such production, if less economic activity must be undertaken,
rather than manufacturing in which she has serious disadvantages.
Cigars, cigarettes, textiles and flour are among major local manufactured goods.

220

American

Relations

221

his

AMERICAN-COLOMBIAN RELATIONS

1. Relations with Colombia were strained for a quarter of a

century because of the Panama incident.

Panana had been a province of Colombia. Colombia had granted

3 concession to a French company for the building of a canal across
the Isthmus. French company went bankrupt and American speculators

bought un the stock and then lobbied Congress into voting the purchase of the French concession in 1902.

In 1903 the United States negotiated with Colonbia for a lease
of strin of land across the Isthmus bordering the proposed canal
route, over which we would have political control and for which would
anice regular payments to Colombia. Colombian Senate refused to

entify. Thereafter a revolt broke out in Panama, Colonbian troops

lad difficulty in arriving in time to cuell the revolt, due it is

claimed to American interference, and Panama declared herself indemendent. Quickly the United States recognized her independence

(three days later), and Roosevelt could later say "I took Panama."
The agreement with Paname was readily made and the canal built.

Under President Wilson a treaty expressing our regret and

agreeing to pay Colombia $25 millions in apology was drawn un but

the Remublicans in the Senate refused to ratify on the grounds it
constituted a slur on Roosevelt.

By Harding's time, however, oil was discovered and oilmen wanted
friendly relations. Quickly Republican votes were switched over in
favor of a Colombian treaty and the treaty went through in 1922.
Oil production started the same year. Standard Oil was long the only
producer of oil and the largest single taxpayer.

2. Mellon interests (Gulf oil) long held the Barco Concession

for an area larger than Rhode Island, about 200 miles from the
Caribbean and worth fabulous sums for its potential oil production.
Colombia twice cancelled the concession claiming the terms had not
been net. The State Department pressed for restoration in 1928

but nothing happened. In May 1931 the last four million dollars of

a loan floated in New York was unaccountably held up and in June 1931
Colombia restored the Barco Concession to the Mellons and a few days

later Colombia got the $4 millions. The State Department has made it
clear that it had nothing to do with this strange coincidence. Since
then the Mellons sold their concession to Texas Corporation and the
Socony-Vacuum Corporation.

222
AMERICAN-COLOMBIAN RELATIONS

(Continued - 2)

3. We have a strong economic basis for intimate political
relations with Colombia, We take 54 percent of her exports and

sell 50 percent of imports. More than three-fourths of the chief

native crop around which the economy centers (coffee) goes to the

United States. We hold the larger part of the external debt and
have made more than 90 percent of the direct investments in Colombia.

4. A reciprocal trade agreement was signed with Colombia in
1936.

5. Colombia's position at the Inter-American Conferences has
been in line with our policy. She has been a powerful force for
democracy and has had an active press against fascist penetration.

Despite this fact, a score of German reserve army pilots have been
flying the internal air transport planes which are largely germancontrolled. Germans obtained oil land concessions in recent years,
totalling at least 88,000 square kilometers, according to the
press. During the current war, she has come out for belligerent

neutrality pro-Allies.

223

Trade
I

224
TRADE

1. In 1938 exports were $92 millions including gold, imports
$89 millions. For the first 6 months of 1939, imports were $55.1
millions, exports $48.2 millions.
2. American trade position is very strong. We furnished 50
percent of her imports and took 59 percent of her exports in 1938.

Germany was in second place, selling 17 percent and buying 14 percent. United Kingdom supplied 11 percent of imports. Canada ranks
third as a buyer with 9.5 percent.

3. Normally Colombia has a heavily favorable balance of
trade with the United States which covers unfavorable balances with
Germany and the United Kingdom.

4. In recent years exports to Germany had been rising: while

annual exports to Germany averaged $12 millions from 1936-38, the

average was only $2 to $3 millions from 1931-1933. Imports from
Germany ran $4 to $5 millions in 1931-33, and $14-$15 millions in
1936-38.

5. Chief exports are coffee 54 percent. oil 19 percent, gold

17 percent, "bananas 4 percent. German purchases of coffee (15

percent) and bananas (15 to 20 percent) had been important. War
might be expected to weaken coffee exports while oil and gold industries continue their expansion.

6. The nature of imports is such as to nake difficult any
great reduction while the economy is geared to the current-scale of
exports and to plans for development. Colombia normally runs 20

million pesos of textile imports $5 to $6 millions food, $7 to $10
millions iron and steel products, $10 millions mining and textile
machinery and equipment. She imports wheat, raw cotton, rice and

sugar and in her present desire for greater self-sufficiency in
food may be able to cut this down somewhat.

Domestic manufacturing will ultimately reduce textile imports
but it will be a non-economic manufacturing development. Cotton
imports on the surface appear to be an unnecessary strain on foreign
exchange resources, but domestic textile manufacturing industry
cannot yet use the high quality domestic cotton.

225

TRADE

(Continued - 2)

7. Leading products imported from Germany in 1937 are listed

in the order of importance: tablets and pills, aniline dyes, iron

and steel tubes, brewing machinery, agricultural tools, arts and
craft tools, locomotives, barbed wire, cement, hope, glass bottles,

quinine and salts, electric bulbs, textile machinery, printing

machinery, cotton drill, office equipment, copper and wire cables,
etc.

8. During the first half of 1939 importations have been
unusually heavy, due partly to the uncertainty in the European
situation and apprehension of difficulty in securing supplies later
in the year.

226
Trade Balances of Colombia

(Millions of pesos)
:

Year: Trade Balance

Balance with
United States

Balance with

Balance with

Germany

1938

+4

+20

-6

1937

+15

+40

United Kingdom
- 18
- 30
- 20
- 16

1936

+37

+45

J
4

1935

+36

+50

-5

1934

+65

+66

-6

1933

+22

+31

-5

1932

+40

+41

-2

+57

+64

-2

1930

+50

+63

4

-8
-4
-5
-5
-4

1929

+1

+37

-15

- 12

1931

Colombian Foreign Trade in 1937-38

(Millions of pesos)

:

1937

1938

:

:

Total

Imports

:

or Destination

159

169

Exports

:

Country of Origin

1937

: 1938

184 1

168 2

118 1

99 2

United States

78

79

Germany

22

27

18

United Kingdom

29

17

21
-

-

France
5

6

5
7
3

4

1

2

1
2

1

1
1

-

1

1

Canada

10

2

3

-

-

18

1

All Others

-

Curacao

-

13

14
-

Japan

1

-

2

-

Switzerland

1

3

1

Netherlands
Sweden

-

Italy

-

3

-

Czecho-Slovakia
Belgium and Luxenburg

11

16

2

2

Percent of total:
United States
United Kingdom
Germany

Italy

46.5
17.4
13.2
.9

49.9
11.1

64.1

59.0

.4

.4

17.4

10.3

12.8

1.2

1.5

1.2
.1

10.0

Japan

.2

.2

.1

Curacao

.4

.3

10.1

1 Including 32,018,665 pesos in gold bars.
Including 18,780,402 pesos in gold bars.

2

Colombia

Value of Exports

(In millions of pesos)

Petroleum

:
:

99

32

35

91

21

28

79

19

29

82

29

28

143

1934

98

152

+ 24
+ 54

49
43

70

+ 39

1931

41

98

1930

63

112

1929

126

127

1928
1927

148

+ 57
+ 49

+1

55
62

16
18
9

77

88
71

111

111

86

1925

89

84

67

1924

56

86

69

1923

61

60

45

no

6

3

16

5

26

9

27

5

9

26

1

9

23

5

10

1

5

5

4

2

-

72

31

5

1

50

1932

6

10

5

2.7

9

-

1933

+ 22

3.5

8

-

:

158

119

1

:

134

1935

3.9
5.0

9

7

+ 13

109

Hides

Platinum

:
37

19

182

133

: Bananas

4

U. S. cents

: medellin

:

:
:

89

1936

1926

:

+9
+ 24

126

Gold

:

169

168

Coffee

Coffee prices

:

159

:

1938
1937

Trade

:

: Gold

of

:

Imports:Including:

Exports of
:

Total : Exports

Balance

:

Year

: Total

4

2.9
1.5
0.9
1.6
3.4
3.9
3.6
3.2
2.7
3.2
2.9

2.6

1.6

11.51

2.7
3.1
2.1
2.7
1.2

12.19
11.99
10.85
14.35
11.05
12.26
16.85
18.36
18.58
28.14
26.60
29.65
29.03
26.60
19.30

0.5
1.2

1.9
2.6
3.3
3.3

4.4

4.0
3.9
3.6

228

LEADING IMPORTS

(Millions of pesos)

Autos, trucks and chassis

7.3
1.3

Rice

Cotton Driles
Pharmaceutical specialties

Iron and steel bars and sheets

Silk yarn
Tires

Mining machinery

Textile machinery
Farm machinery

Wool cloth
Paper

Cotton textiles
Iron and steel tubes

3.0
4.4

4.0
1.4
2.2

1936

:

:

1.9

:
:

Cotton

1937

:

1938

1.9
7.4

1.4

1.3

0.9
2.4

3.8
1.8
2.8
1.6

6.2

1.2

3.4
1.2

2.9
0.9
1.6
2.8
0.7
0.7

3.9

2.9

1.3
7.3

0.7

4.8
6.6

3.5

1.6

4.2
2.8
2.5
2.3
1.5

2.3
5.4

6.2

Colombia

Volume of Exports
(Thousands of bags)

:

1935
1934
1933

1932
1931

1930
1929

1928
1927

:

1936

4,262
4,156
3,980
3,785
3,142
3,280
3,184
3,017
3,117
2,835
2,659
2,356

:

1938
1937

: U.S.

Gold

: Petroleum

(Troy ounces) (Barrels)

: Bananas

: (Tons)

:
:

(Bags)

: Coffee to

Hides
(Tons)

: Tobacco

: (Tons)

:

Coffee
Total

:

Year

Platinum
(Troy ounces)

(Bags)

3,362
3,095
2,819
2,868
2,612
2,755
2,804
2,751
2,854
2,621
2,385
2,115

310

18,450

195

7.0

4.9

524

17.740
16,130
15,950
16,500
11,806

153

7.7
7.7
6.9
7.1

2.1

29

1.5

41

2.4

39

1.6

55

340
311
513

160
155
144
135

29

230

Foreign Trade of Colombia*

Balance

:

- 15

: imports

:

exports :

- 15

145

131

122

122

50

61

109

98

57

40

95

55

70

29

95

66

41

60

19

134

1929 126

127

-

1930

63

113

1931

41

-

:

149

:

: exports

(In millions of dollars)
: Total
Total
Balance
:

1928

: Total

:

Year: Total
: imports

:

(In millions of pesos)

49

1932

30

100

1933

50

73

24

1934

88

152

65

54

94

40

1935

107

143

36

60

80

20

1936

120

158

38

69

90

21

1937 1 170

183

13

96

104

1938 159

168

89

94

Includes gold.

9

Since January 1, 1937, trade computed on C.I.F. basis.

8

2

.
1

231

I

Public
Finance

232
PUBLIC FINANCE

1. Annual expenditures of the National Government are about

$50 millions.

2. The budget has been balanced since 1934, although there was
a deficit of about $2 millions in 1938 which was more than covered
by the carried-over surplus of $4 millions. There was a carry-over
surplus of $2 millions on December 31, 1938. It should be remembered,
however, that external long-term debt is not being serviced.
For the first eight months of 1939, revenues and expenditures

have been running ahead of 1938. Heavy importations have increased

customs receipts. For eight months of 1939 revenues are $32.6
millions, expenditures $32 millions. For eight months of 1938
revenues were $27.1 millions.

3. Total cost of Government in Colombia probably runs $85

millions, of which National is $50 millions, provincial expenditures
$22 millions, municipal $10 millions. National income probably does
not exceed $400,000,000.

4. Under current conditions, debt service on internal and
short-term debt which is being serviced takes only 11 percent of

revenue, which is an unusually low debt burden for a Latin American
country to carry. Adequate service on the external long-term debt
would raise the proportion to about 18 percent of current expenditures.

5. Since 1935-36 the administration and structure of the revenue
system have been improved. Introduction of the excess-profits tax

and patrimony tax and the. reorganized improved yield of the income
tax have been advantageous.

An income tax was introduced in 1918 and reorganised by the
Kemmerer advisory commissions, but it has been slow to develop into
an adequate revenue-producer.

6. The use of double budgets (ordinary and extraordinary) confuses somewhat comparisons of revenues and expenditures.

7. Chief sources of revenue are: customs 30-35 percent, income
and excess profits tax 20 percent.

8. Chief expenditures: national defense 17 percent, debt

service 11 percent, public works 20 percent, education 9 percent.
There are certain encouraging features of the expenditures: education
and public health are receiving increasing appropriations; public works
expenditures are large and better used than in previous decades.

Colombia

233
PUBLIC FINANCE

(Continued - 2)

The military establishment is an unfortunate consequence of
the threatened trouble with Peru over Leticia in 1932-34 which
ended peacefully. At that time an excessive military establishment
was created which it has proven impossible to scale down once the
trouble was averted.

9. The budget of 1939 provided 9,991,000 pesos for public
debt of which 3,900,000 was scheduled for external debt. The
budget for 1940 allots 3,283,000 pesos for service on external debt
should it be resumed.

For 1940 a considerable extension of public works was intended.
Various projects have come before Congress and met with approval:

one calls for 15,000,000 pesos of national railway bonds to be issued
internally at the rate of 4,000,000 per year to be used for railway
extensions, construction of new terminal at Bogota, and a railway
shop. Another project is for a hydroelectric plant on the Cauca or
Palo rivers to supply electric power to the surrounding area and to
meet future requirements of the Pacific railway; it would be financed
51 percent by the National Government.

10. In the revaluation of gold authorized by law of November 19.
1938, profits of 16,000,000 pesos were assigned thus: 8 million for
reducing Government's debt to the Central Bank, 5 million to be used
by the Government for public works, 3 million for formation of an
exchange stabilization fund.

11. From 1929 to 1934, deficits totalled 60 million pesos.
Deficits arose out of reduced revenues, continuation of public works,
and the Leticia military preparations. Extraordinary funds were
found to finance these deficits.
Government borrowings at the Central Bank increased steadily

after 1930 because of these deficits. At the end of June 1930
direct loans to the Government were only 4.1 million pesos out of
total Bank's assets of 52.3 millions. By the end of 1934, direct
advances to Government were 41.8 millions out of 90 millions in
assets. Nor does this latter figure include advances to the banks
and to public against the security of Government bonds and bills,

which the Central Bank was empowered to make by the law of 1930.

Since 1934, however, internal debt has not been expanded and

the table below indicates the failure to expand loans from the

Central Bank:

234
PUBLIC FINANCE

(Continued - 3)

Total credit operations of Central Bank

with national and other official
Governments and authorities:

(In millions of pesos)
1934
1935
1936
1937
1938
1939

41.4
45.4
45.4
45.8
38.2
37.3

(August)

(Note: In November 1938 revaluation of
gold profits were alloted (8,000,000)
to reduce Government indebtedness.

235
PUBLIC FINANCE

(Continued - 4)

Ordinary
Expenditures

:

:

60.6
86.2
107.5
75.2
54.3

1926
1927
1928
1929
1930
1932
1934

- 7.6
- 7.3
- 6.6

60.9

52.0

+ 1.7

- 1.7

46.2
62.7

- 22.9
- 21.6

74.9

1935

57.4

61.1

1936

70.1

1937

82.6
83.0

69.3

1938

+ 1.8

115.1
85.5

39.8
53.4

1933

Balance

- 6.8

67.4
84.4

53.7'
44.6

1931

:

:

Revenues

:

Ordinary

:

(

Year

(In millions of pesos)

- 3.7

+ 0.7
+ 5.0

77.5

- 5.4

88.4

( In millions of pesos)
Ordinary Revenues

:
:

1938

84.0

1937

80.3

1936

70.1
57.4
45.4

1935
1934

:

Year

Ordinary Expenditures
88.2
78.6
68.1
56.8

41.9

Colombia
co

PUBLIC FINANCE

(Continued - 5)
SOURCES OF REVENUE

:
:

:

27.5
24.6

5.3

-

-

-

:

1.9
6.0
5.6

Tax

Inheritance
Tax

011

Royalties

:

:
:

36.3

30.6
34.3
30.0

:

:

:

59.7
46.4

:mony Tax

Income

:

:

69.3

1934

:

82.6
70.1
57.4
45.4

:

68.4

1937

:and Patri-

:

84.4

1936
1935

: Gold

: Profits

:

1938

of

: Excess-

:

Taxes

Customs

Sale

:

Revenue

Total

:

Year

Ordinary

: Tax on

6.3

11.4

5.3
4.2

10.2

0.9

8.7

0.7

2.7
2.1
1.9

4.3
2.0

0.6
0.6

2.2
1.2

1.4

Colombia

PUBLIC FINANCE

(Continued - 6)
EXPENDITURES

(000,000 pesos)

:

1935

1934

:

1936

1933

1932

:

:

:

:

External

Internal
War

Education

Labor, Health

1930

1929

11.5
3.9
6.0

2.3

3.9
7.5

3.4

2.7

1.9

8.6

8.8

6.1

7.7

14.0

13.0

12.8

14.0

14.5

24.4

7.9

6.8

6.0

6.0

2.5

1.5

3.5

3.7

3.2

2.4

15.2

18.2

12.2

10.0

7.5

5.9

83.6

85.7

73.0

61.1

63.1

46.1

Public Health
Public Works

1931

18.9

3.8

5.5
3.9
3.8

5.6
5.5
4.0

4.3

7.7

1.2

1.5

1.2

3.3

7.2

2.2

2.0

2.6

14.2

29.8

52.1

62.0

84.0

-

:

Debt Service:

:

1937

B

1938

:

1939

5.2

and Welfare
Total

89.2

Note: Reorganized Executive Departments for 1939. therefore not strictly comparable.
Reorganized Revenue Collection System in 1936.

238

Public
Debt
I

239
PUBLIC DEBT

1. Colombia has an internal debt of 78,500,000 pesos ($45
millions) which has been serviced continually.

2. She has an external short-term debt of $19.3 millions contracted in 1930 which is being serviced in full. It is renewed from
time to time with provision for interest and amortization.
3. The external long-term debt (national and municipal)
totals $159 millions, of which $82 millions is local Governmental
obligations and $77 millions national Government obligations. The
debt is largely a dollar debt, there being only $12 millions in
sterling obligations out of $159 millions.
4. Colombia is now in complete default on her long-term
external debt. Partial default began in 1931 and complete default
in 1934. Interest arrears on her defaulted national obligations
have now reached $22 millions. Full service on the national debt
would take $4.7 millions, on the local Governments debts $5.8
millions; those figures compare with a national budgeted expenditure
of
$50 millions annually and local Government expenditures of perhaps
$35 millions.
5. The present government of Colombia have publicly stated

their intention of meeting their external obligations honorably.

As recently as September 28, 1939. ex-President Lopez who was in
New York with the rumored purpose of speeding debt settlement nego-

tiations assured the Pan-American Society that Colombia would
resume payment of its foreign obligations and that budgetary provitions had already been made.

6. In 1935 it was estimated that 40 percent of the National

Government bonds and 15 percent of local Government bonds were held

outside the United States.

7. Debt negotiations have been badly mishandled by American
bondholders representatives. Various bondholders' committees that
undertook negotiations are believed to have bungled the job sadly.

8. It has been reported that a considerable quantity of the

guaranteed Agricultural Mortgage Bank bonds and bonds of certain
local Governments have been repurchased. The loans of the local
Governments were mostly secured by local revenues and taxes in one

case, Baranquilla, deposits in pesos for interest have been made
regularly. Elsewhere American trustees have begun action to enforce
the original contract and attach local pledged income (Tolina, Cali).
It is said that their efforts were hampered by the reduction in the
floating supply of these bonds through extensive repurchase by the
debtors.

240
PUBLIC DEBT

(Continued - 2)

9. Some idea of the basis of settlement that would be acceptable
to Colombia is indicated by the negotiations with holders of bonds
of the Mortgage Bank of Bogota. In October 1938 negotiations were
completed whereby holders of sterling bonds of Mortgage Bank of
Bogota, whose securities had not been guaranteed by the Government,

accepted bonds in local currency to a value representing a scaling
down of 47 percent of principle. The Government guaranteed the new
issue. Conversion was 415 pesos of the new issue for each 100
sterling plus accrued interest. New issue carried sinking fund, a
30-year issue in pesos, 4 percent interest. Conversion represented
a scaling down to an interest rate of 1.88 percent.
The Council of the Corporation of Foreign Bondholders (British)
did not object to the settlement because it was not a Government-

guaranteed issue. But it states that it will continue to object to

conversion of obligations into local currency because these make
bondholders take the risk of fluctuations in rate of exchange previously borne by debtors, and they night make it impossible in case
of need for their Governments to undertake diplomatic intervention on
their behalf.

10. The Minister of Finance in the Lopez Administration (1934-38)
proposed the following basis for an external debt settlement:

8. Renew interest payments at 1} percent for the
first four years.

b. If exports increase in coffee, gold and oil so as
to provide transfer capacity. raise the interest pay-

ments for the ,following 3 years to 2 percent.

C. Afterwards, if exports continue to increase transfer
capacity, pay 2 percent for the next four years and 1

percent amortization annually.

d. The maximum interest to be paid thereafter shall be

3 percent.

e. National Government will authorize local Governments
to negotiate similar debt settlements but they must not
offer better terms than bondholders got from National
Government.

f. Local Governments would be authorized to convert
their outstanding issues into bonds of local currency at
4 percent and a minimum amortization of 30 years. Conversion would not be at over 83 percent.

241
PUBLIC DEBT

(Continued - 3)

6. Under this plan the service in dollars would be:
National bonds
Departmental
Municipal

$1,050,000
900,000
330,000
$2,280,000

11. History of the external long-term debt:
a. Up to the Colombian bonds were floated almost
exclusively in Europe. The volume of external debt
was small and price paid was high, for Colombia was

considered a poor credit risk, In 1923 external

debt amounted to only 43,600,000.

b. During the 1920's dollar bonds to the amount of
$170 millions were sold by National and local
Governments. Of this total, $60 millions were national
Government bonds, $67.5 departmental, $26.1 municipal,
and $16 agricultural mortgage bank bonds guaranteed by

the National Government. Sterling borrowings during

this period were limited to L1,200,000 for the Agri-

cultural Mortgage Bank. We ignore here the non-

guaranteed bonds of various banks to the amount of
$22,000,000 and 13,400,000; of these dollar bonds $12.4

millions are still outstanding.

C. Fraud and corruption did not characterize the flo-

tation of these dollar bonds, but waste and extravagance

in the use of proceeds was notable. It has been reliably

estimated that not more than one-third were productively
used. When it is realized that annual service charges
originally contracted ran 7.7 percent on net proceeds for

National Government and over 10 percent for local Govern-

ments, it will be seen that a very high productivity

would have been required even had the proceeds been pro-

ductively used. Oddly, enough, some of the projects for
which financing is currently sought are the same ones for
which these dollar bonds purported to have been floated,
Bankers' gross and net margins were heavy. Gross

margins were 5.34 percent on all the dollar bonds, but on
the departmental and municipal issues the average mounted
to 8 percent.

242
PUBLIC DEBT

(Continued - 4)

12. Internal debt:
a. During the 1930's the internal debt rose. Public
distribution is narrow with the Central Bank holding

about half of the internal debt. Military difficulties

with Peru increased the burden already initiated by
depression. Internal funded debt was 22.3 million pesos
on December 31, 1931, and 35.4 million on December 31,

1932. By September 30, 1934, it had reached 48.7 million

pesos. Since then it has remained in the vicinity of

50 million pesos, and the total internal debt has remained
around 75 to 80 million pesos.

13. Short-term external loans:
a. In 1930 a banking syndicate headed by the National
City Bank arranged a global credit to the amount of $20
millions. At that time Colombian bonds were no longer
marketable. This loan has been serviced faithfully during the depression. The syndicate fixed these conditions

as requisite for the loan: -

(1) Balancing of budget for 1931.
(2) Placing of State railways in hands of an
autonomous corporation with a distinct
budget and accountability, and that the
same corporation also handle the ports.

(3) A law fixing debt limit such as that borrowings shall not exceed a debt service
requirement of 30 percent of ordinary

revenue.

(4) Reorganize office of comptroller- general
and certain fiscal organizations.

(5) A law assuring the legality of this loan.
Some delay attended the delivery of the last $4

millions of this credit on the question of whether the
budget had actually been balanced. Also, it has been
reported that the Government attitude toward an oil con-

cession was involved.

243

PUBLIC DEBT

(Continued - 5)

14. Debt service record:
a. The Colombian Government, when confronted with a

transfer problem in 1930-31 at first tried to preserve
its own credit by prohibiting on October 31, 1931, the
transfer of funds by the political subdivisions and
private mortgage banks for the service of their external
debts, and reserved the available exchange for its own use.

b. January 1, 1932, sinking fund payments on national
external debt and mnationally-guaranteed Mortgage Bank

bonds were suspended.

C. Finally, the Government announced that coupons matur-

ing on these loans from April 1, 1933. to January 1, 1934,
would be paid one-third in cash and two-thirds in scrip.
d. After that date, cash payments were suspended entirely
and coupons maturing during 1934 were paid only in scrip.

e. After January 1, 1935, even the scrip payments were

discontinued.

f. Colombia showed a laudable desire to maintain service
by continuing full service as long as she did (to November
1, 1931). The trouble with Peru ruined a budding recovery
and destroyed hopes of weathering the depression with a

credit record held high.

6. She serviced her internal debt, and also the shortterm external credit of $20,000,000 (original) contracted
in 1930. On the latter, service was at 3 percent and
$100,000 amortization.

h. Baranquilla is the only entity which since 1931 has

provided for and maintained bond service payments, though

exchange restrictions compelled then to be retained on
deposit in local banks.

244
PUBLIC DEBT

(Continued - 6)
Debt Structure
External Bonds:

National Government - dollar bonds

dollar scrip

National Government - guaranteed dollar bonds

$ 51,200,000

$ 3,100,000

of Agricultural Mortgage Bank

$ 10,300,000
L 1,500,000

Mortgage Bank

L 1,130,000
$ 60,000,000
22,100,000

National Government - sterling bonds
National Government - guaranteed sterling
bonds of Agricultural
Departmental Dollar Bonds

Municipal dollar bonds

Total calculated in dollars

$159,000,000

(Note: Interest arrears on the National Government's
external debt has reached $21,600,000).

Internal debt of National Government (July 1939):
Funded debt

Debt to Central Bank
Loans from banks and other domestic concerns
Total

52,000,000 pesos
21,000,000 pesos
5,500,000 pesos
78,500,000 pesos

(Note: In July 1939, the Central Bank held
15,300,000 of internal bonds in addition to
direct Government borrowing so that it was

creditor for 46 percent of internal debt.)

External short-term banking credits:
Short-term loan of 1930 by American banking

syndicate with 1/5 French participation
Other short-term credits
Total

(Note: These short-term credits have been

serviced faithfully. At the end of 1938 they

were extended for three years.)

$ 17,000,000
2,300,000

$ 19,300,000

Debt of National Government

(In millions)
1935

:

:

1934

1936

:

:

1933

1937

:

:Pesos: $ :Pesos: $ :Pesos: $ :Pesos: $ :Pesos: $
External
Consolidated
Scrip

Floating
Total

Internal
Consolidated
Floating
Total
Total

4.9 59.4
4.7 58.4
61.3 1.7 59.75.01.6 61.1
4.6)56.8) 62.9 61.2 63.5 61.8

21.1 20.5 21.3 20.7 37.8 36.8 37.4 36.4 33.9 33.0

24.1 81.8 87.4 85.0 100.9 98.2 100.3 97.7 97.5 94.9

33.9 21.7 38.1 24.5 53.9 30.7 51.1 29.6 47.4 25.7
35.3 22.6 44.3 28.6 29.8 17.0 27.4 15.8 29.3 15.9
69.3 44.3 82.3 53.2 83.7 47.7 78.6 45.1 76.7 41.6
153.4 126.1 169.7 138.2 184.6 145.9 178.9 142.8 174.1 136.5

External
rate.

debt converted to dollars at original par of exchange: internal debt converted at December

246

Direct
Investments

I

247
FOREIGN DIRECT INVESTMENTS

1. Total $150 millions, of which $125 millions is American
and $10 to $15 millions British. American investment is largely
in oil, bananas, mining. British have about $8 millions in reil-

ways and the balance in miscellaneous projects.

2. American investments date from the World War. In 1913

our direct and portfolio investment totaled only $4 millions; by

1920 it had reached $30 and by 1929, $260 millions. Meanwhile,

the British investment remained unchanged around $35 millions.
By 1928-29 Standard Oil of New Jersey was accounting for 20 percent of Colombian exports.

3. The latest American large-scale project is the pipe line

from the Barco Concession to the new port of Covenas. Capacity

is 25,000 barrels daily, with possibility of rise to 70,000 barrels
by installation of additional pump stations. Construction of this

line was started in February 1938 but the mountainous terrain made

work difficult; the line passes through jungle and over a spur of
the Andes mountains. In its construction 10 airplanes were used to
carry 11,000,000 tons of freight.
There are 69 producing wells on the Barco Concession, which is

owned by the Colombian Petroleum Company which is owned jointly by

the Texas Corporation and the Socony Vacuum. Investment in it is

said to be $18 millions in the pipe line and $22 millions in

developmental work.

4. The Liberal Party, now in power, has recently passed a
petroleum code designed to attract more investments. It appears that
this Government is headed for capital attraction, following the
Venezuelan example rather than the Mexican example. Nevertheless,

it should never be forgotten that there is a strong feeling for

nationalization in Colombia and that excesses and abuses would not
long be tolerated. The influence the banana companies once had in
the banana region has been largely reduced.

248

I Foreign
Exchange

249
FOREIGN EXCHANGE

1. In 1939 import licensing, prior permits for importation,

and exchange restrictions were in force.

Remission of earnings was permitted, although at times slight
delays were reported in the granting of exchange for other than
essential imports. There was not, however, a definite establishment of import categories (indispensable, necessary. luxury).
There were clearing arrangements with Germany and Japan, and
special arrangements with Italy, Spain and Denmark.

There was no free market, although there was a bootleg rate.
After August 1, 1939, the ruling was rescinded whereby 10

percent of the export bills delivered to the Control Authority had
to be sold at a specially low price.
In August 1939 the Bank suspended its purchase of compensation

marks in order not to increase its holdings What its holdings
were on the eve of war is not known.

2. A stabilization fund of 3,000,000 pesos vas created out of
the profits of gold revaluation in November 19, 1938. By this Monetary
Stabilization Lew the peso was stabilised at 1.75 to the dollar; the
monetary unit was specified as a coin of 900 parte fine gold, weighing 0.56424 grams; the Bank was to compute its gold values on this

basis.

The profits of revaluation were 16,000,000 pesos of which 8 were
assigned for payment of Government debt to the Central Bank, 5 for
Government account to be used for public works, 3 millions for forma-

tion of a stabilization fund.

In 1938 the exchange rate fixed by the Bank had fallen from 1.83
to the dollar to 1.78 on July 13. to 176.50 on October 5, to 175.5
on October 19, 1938.

3. Exchange restrictions date from September 1931. Rates
were maintained at their former parities (1.05 pesos to dollar)
until February 1933 when the price of the dollar was raised to 1.16.
After the United States suspended the gold standard it was decided
on April 21, 1933. the maintain dollar rate unchanged and to quote
other currencies on the basis of their prices in New York.

bia

250
FOREIGN EXCHANGE

(Continued - 2)

Later in 1933 official dollar rate was raised several times
until it reached 1.26 to the dollar. At the same time the system
of exchange control WELE relaxed and as early as April 1933 exemptions

from obligation to sell foreign exchange proceeds to the Central
Bank were granted for a number of commodities; for all other commodities new regulations of September 1933 required only 15 percent
of export proceeds to be delivered to the Central Bank,

In 1935 importers were required to file copies of their orders;
after August 1, 1936, import permits were required. In the spring

of 1939 orders for goods were no longer to be placed abroad until
prior permission of Control Authority had been received.

After the middle of 1935, 85 percent of exchange purchased by

banks was being assigned to Exchange Control Board and balance
used for Government requirements.

4. Depreciation of exchange since 1923 is shown in the table
Exchange Value of the Peso
(Cents per peso)

Year

:
:

below:

Exchange Value

1926

95.2
99.2
98.4
98.5

1927

97.7

1928

1932

97.7
96.6
96.5
96.3
95.3

1934

61.4

1923
1924
1925

1929
1930
1931

1935

55.9

1936

57.1

1937

56.5

1938

55.9

1939 (August)

55.9

251
FOREIGN EXCHANGE

(Continued - 3)

5. From 1934 to 1938 (five years) Colombia produced more
gold than she exported - 2,025,000 ounces compared with 1,989,000
ounces. From January to July 1939 she exported somewhat more than

production, the loss of gold being about $4 millions. She has
$23 millions in gold and produces $18 millions annualls, with
output rising.
Export and Production of Gold
(In thousands of troy ounces)

1937

1938

1939Jan-

:
:

1935
1936

Production

:

1934

Exports

:

Year

513.0
310.8
340.5
524.4
300.6
421.4

344.1
329.0

389.5
442.2
520.7
328.4

July

6. The future of the peso under war conditions depends on the
price of coffee, the expansion plans of foreign oil companies, and
the continued increase in gold production. Immediately the loss of

the German market decreases annual exchange availabilities for imports

by $12 millions. Coffee amounting to over half of total exports had
gone three-fourths to the United States: due to its superior competitive position it should be able to maintain a volume and price more
adequately than Brazilian coffee. 011 is likely to expand and gold
also.

252

Balance of
Payments

I

253
THE BALANCE OF PAYMENTS

Disregarding the temporary dislocation caused by the war, a
potential balance of payments to indicate transfer capacity on debt
service is presented below:
Export-potential
Import-potential (defined as the
figure below which imports
cannot be cut without excessive
interference with wider national

polities)

Balance of Trade

165 to 210 million pesos

140 to 175 million pesos

15 to 25 million pesos

Other credits (port dues, foreign
expenditures in Colombia, etc.)

2 to 4 million pesos

Potential credit of 20 million pesos
Against which:

Short-term credit servicing

4 million pesos

Non-corporate requirements abroad

2

Miscellaneous

2

Oil and banana Co. remittances

9*

17

Usually it is calculated that exchange created by oil and bananas

is not fully available since 50 percent is likely to be left abroad.
If oil exports are put at 37 and bananas at 8. there is total of 45

million pesos involved. Let us assume that developmental possibili-

ties attract reinvestment of larger share of profits so that only 20
percent of export values will be unavailable, i.e., 20 percent will
be sent home as dividends, etc., 9,000,000 pesos.

This leaves a balance of 3 to 5 million pesos available for

external debt service.

254

Banking

bia

255
BANKING STRUCTURE

1. There is a Central Bank, three Government-constituted
mortgage banks, 10 native commercial banks, four foreign banks,

one native savings institution, a municipal credit bank, and an

Agricultural, Industrial and Mining Credit Institute.

2. The four foreign banks account for probably less than
one-fourth of the commercial banking business. They are: Royal
Bank of Canada, Bank of London and South America, National City
Bank of New York, Banco Frances e Italiano para la America del Sud.
The German Overaeas bank is not represented here but there is a
German institution called Banco Aleman Antioquena.

The National City Bank of New York occupies a position in
the banking structure much inferior to the American trade position

with Colombia.

3. The Central Bank was established on the recommendations
of the Kemmerer Commission in 1923. Considerable revision of the
original organic law was necessary and there has been much adverse
comment on the work of the Kemmerer Commission. The law was modi-

fied in 1933.
Shares are divided into A shares without voting power held
by the Government, B shares held by native banks and 0 shares held

by foreign banks, both groups of banks holding shares of value
equal to 15 percent of the paid-up capital and surplus, D shares
held by the public.
Directors are appointed three by the Government, two by native
banks, one by foreign banks, one by holders of D shares, one by

National federation of coffee vendors, one by chambers of commerce

and the agricultural societies. Governor of the bank is elected

by seven affirmative votes.

Autonomy of the Bank has been preserved. The Bank has been

praised by Government officials for its aid during the Leticia
crisis which required heavy military expenditures, for buying the
bulk of issue of coffee bounty bonds during the depression, for its
aid in unfreezing debts owing to commercial banks, and for its
exchange control work.

Nationalization of the Central Bank has been persistently
agitated for.
The Central Bank is permitted by law to deal directly with
the public.

256
BANKING STRUCTURE

(Continued - 2)

4. In 1932 the Government undertook to deal with frozen bank
debts. February 11, 1932, there was set up the Colombian Credit
Corporation, a private corporation whose shares were held only by
commercial banks wishing to use its services; aim was gradual liquidation of frozen obligations held by the banks. Decree of April
22, 1932, enabled repayment of frozen commercial credits to banks

partly in state bonds at nominal value; in turn the banks could
borrow up to the face value on the security of these bonds at the
Central Bank.

5. In 1932 there was set up the Central Mortgage Bank with a
capital of 20,000,000 pesos, of which 12 was to be furnished by
the Central Bank and the rest by other banks chiefly. It began

operations in August 1932. For its first three years it was limited
to mortgage loans whose proceeds would be devoted exclusively to
repayment of obligations to commercial and mortgage banks. It was
authorized to issue bonds carrying a Government guarantee.
There was also the Banco Agricola Hipotecario and Banco
Hipotecario de Bogota whose obligations carry Government guarantees.

Bonds of the latter have been in default, but on its stock it has
paid dividends both to internal and external holders.
6. In 1937 a law provided for the establishment of a system
of territorial credit banks to supplement the Central Mortgage Bank
which is the official mortgage institution now. These new institutions would make loans only by real property, only in agricultural
regions not previously served by existing official banks, be limited
to 3,000 pesos loans per piece of property, charge a rate of interest
2 percent over the charges of the existing Central Mortgage Bank.
Capital would be provided 50 percent by departmental government, 25

percent by municipal and 25 percent by outsiders. If the latter two
did not take their share of the subscriptions, Central Mortgage
Bank could take the stock. These territorial banks were aimed to be
small-man's credit institutions, of which there is a great need.
7. A project for a postal savings system was legislated on in
October 1937.

8. Discount rate of the Central Bank was reduced by stages from

9 percent at the end of 1929 to 4 percent in August 1933 since when
it has not been increased or lowered.

Colombia

257

BANKING ACTIVITIES

(In millions of pesos)

:

B. Other Banks
Commercial loans

43.8
75.6

Deposits, including savings

43.3

:

Notes in circulation
Deposits

48.5
36.3
27.3

1937

Jan.-July
: 1939

1938

-

-

-

-

25.9
50.5
37.8
27.4

34.6
62.6
45.9
31.0

42.6
61.3

44.0
63.3
51.7
41.6

43.7
56.2
55.0
40.7

49.0
76.7
42.4

61.0
85.7

82.9
98.9

44.3

76.3
97.0
48.0

92.4
111.5
53.0

73.4
63.3

79.3
71.6

79.4

-

18.7

1936

:

:
:

Gold and foreign exchange
Credit operations

:

A. Central Banks

1935

:

1934

:

Average

51.7

39.8

50.3

Mortgage Loans

-

C. Money

Fiduciary circulation
Money in hands of public

58.2
54.5

64.3

57.1

73.5

83.1
77.3

258

Technical
Assistance
I

ombia

259
TECHNICAL ASSISTANCE

1. Colombia has repeatedly asserted its faith in the use of
foreign technical assistance. During the 1920's she received the

assistance of an American financial mission (Kemmerer), a German

educational mission, a Swiss military mission, a Belgian telegraphic
mission, a Swiss Customs mission, and various other foreign
assistance.
2. Her technicians are highly receptive to ideas developed
abroad and the strong pride in national effort has not interfered
with the use of such assistance.
3. Kemmerer work on national banking and finance has been

widely criticized in Colombia, as elsewhere where it was furnished.
Much of the work has been undone by subsequent legislation, much

of it proved impracticable and unsatisfactory.

COPY

260

PLAIN

London

Dated October 31, 1939
Rec'd 7:45 a.m.

Secretary of State,
Washington.

2223, October 31.

In view of the interchanges arising out of the second
paragraph of telegram 1842, September 27, 6 p.m., I caused

the information contained in your 1267, October 21, 1 p.m.,

to be brought to the attention of the British Treasury
with whom rests the ultimate responsibility for the
regulation of foreign exchange and because this is an

important policy matter for us. The British Treasury
has now sent a letter enclosing its suggested reply to
the Department of Commerce's inquiry: "Both Ministry of
Food and private importers are allowed to pay for goods

imported from the United States of America either in dollars

or in sterling. Treasury on the whole prefer payment to
be made in dollars where this does not upset trade customs,

but have not laid down any fixed rule. "There is no
question of asking American exporters to accept payment

in blocked sterling. Dollars at the official rate are
granted for all goods which have been or will be actually

imported. If goods are on the import restriction list, the
American

281

-2American exporter should satisfy himself that an import

licence has been or will be granted. No such inquiry is
of course necessary in the case of goods not on the import

restriction list, and in the case of goods purchased by
or on behalf of government departments. "It is not the
policy of the United Kingdom Government to make purchases

on condition that the exporter can arrange to accept
payment in goods or in sterling which will not be remitted
and any suggestions for purchases on these terms were made

owing to a misunderstanding. Treasury would be glad to be
informed of any such suggestions made in order that they
may explain to those concerned that such suggestions are

not desirable."

KENNEDY

MCL

262
PARAPHRASE OF TELEGRAM SENT
TO:

The American Embassy, Lima, Peru

NO.:

66

DATE: October 31, 1939

The Department would like to have information by

telegraph regarding the following points. This information is desired in connection with the study which we
are making of Peruvian requests for short-term credits.
1. The latest position of the Central Bank,
including foreign exchange, gold, credits to the Government, banking rediscounts, deposits, and note circulation.
(The latest statement which we have here is one dated
June 30.)

2. Import and export statistics since June.
3. What is the volume of transfer of interest
and dividends taking place at the present time? What
is the volume of capital movement?
4. Is there an accumulated back-log of commercial
exchange?
HULL

03V13038
eser SVOK
EA:EB

263

October 31, 1939

The Secretary

-

new York just phones
that they had received sub.
scriptions aggregating $210 A.

The issue is very popular and

we can expect huge arsrsubscription according to Rause.

stopping of 50th in bills

was a surprise and a regret
but most people thought is

was a good are for you to
keep in the hole.

owB
10/3,

204

OCT 31 1939

My dear Congressmans

Reference is made to your telephone conversation with

Mr. Homes relative to the commercial credit provision in Section

3 of the Neutrality Act.
In February, 1936 Congress, in amending the then existing

Neutrality Act, included the following provisions
*SEC. 1a. Whenever the President shall have issued his

proclamation as provided for in section 1 of this Act, it
shall thereafter during the period of the var be unlowful

for any person within the United States to purchase, sell,
or exchange bonds, securities, or other obligations of the
government of any belligerent country, or of any political
subdivision thereof, or of any person acting for or on behalf
of such government, issued after the date of such proclamation,
or to make any loan or extend any credit to any such government
or persons Provided, That if the President shall find that such

action will serve to protect the consercial or other interests
of the United States or its nationale, he may, in his discretion,

and to such extent and under such regulations as he may prescribe,
except from the operation of this section ordinary commercial

credits and short-term obligations in aid of legal transactions

and of . character customarily used in normal peace-time
commercial transactions."

No substantial change was made in the provise relating to commercial
credits when the Act was otherwise enended in 1937. Then the neutrality
legislation was considered in the House of Representatives last spring

the following provise was included with respect to commercial credits:

Provided, That if the President shall find that such action
will serve to protect the commercial or other interests of
the United States or its citizens, he may, in his discretion,
and to such extent and under such regulations as he say

prescribe, except from the operation of this section for a

period of not more than ninety days without renewals ordinary
File to Mr. Thompson

By hand

-2-

285

commercial credits and short-time obligations in aid of
legal transactions and of a character customerily used in

normal peacetime commercial transactions; the President shall

make public every ninety days any and all exceptions granted
under this provise, together with the amounts of credits involved."

The provision with respect to commercial credits, etc., was
eliminated in the bill passed by the Senate on October 27, 1939.
There are enclosed copies of the President's Regulation Concerning
Credits to Belligerents issued on September 6, 1939 and the amendment of
September 11, 1939, which authorise the Secretary of the Treasury to

administer the provisions of this regulation and to promulgate such
rules and regulations not inconsistent with law that may be necessary
and proper to carry out such provisions. The Secretary of the Treasury
promptly formed an advisory committee to consult with his in connection

with the administration of the President's regulation. Such committee
consisted of Under Secretary of the Treasury John W. Hanes and representatives
of the Departments of State and Commerce. The advisory committee has net
on a number of occasions to consider problems arising in connection with

the administration of the President's regulation. It has not appeared
necessary to issue further formal regulations governing this problem.
However, the Treasury Department has made arrangements whereby persons

having questions concerning the probbes may go to the Federal Reserve

banks for information. If the Federal Reserve banks have any doubts with

respect to the inquiry, it is referred to the Treasury Department for
decision. Furthermore, inquiries have come directly to the Treasury
Department is Washington.

-, The Treasury Department has not made public those inquiries

which 11 has received and the disposition made thereof. It is, how
ever, appropriate to note that very few inquiries have Does received
with respect to this matter, and the inquiries received have presented
comparatively simple problems.

I an also enclosing, in accordance with your request, copies
of proclamations issued by the President pursuent to Section 1 of the
Neutrality Act.

I trust this gives you the information which you desire.
Very truly yours,
(Signed) H. Morgenthan,

Secretary of the Treasury.

Hon. John M. Verys,

House of Representatives.

Enclosures

JWPsngt 10/30/39

266

287
October

0

November 31, 1939
Y

STATEMENT OF FACTS

In April, 1933, Joseph Schenck, head of United Artists, Inc.,
entered into a contract with Darryl Zanuok for Zanuck's personal
services as a producer and director of motion pictures.
In May, 1933, Twentieth Century Pictures, Inc., was incorporated.
Joseph M. Schenes and William Gostz were sole stockholders of

record. Gootz acted as trustee of the Mayer Family Trust which his
father-in-faw, Louis B. Mayer, had created.
Schenek invested $350,000 in Twentieth Century. The Mayer

Family Trust also invested $350,000 in the enterprise. Schenck and
Goetz each received 3,500 shares of preferred stock having a par
value of $100 a share.

The common stock of Twentieth Century consisted of 100 shares.
Schenck and Goots each received 50 shares.

Upon the organization of Twentieth Century, Schenek assigned to

Twentieth Century a written personal service contract between Zanuek

and himself which provided for a weekly salary of $4,000 plus 10 per

cent of the net profits.
A

Zanuck's personal service contract was revoked in March, 1934.
new written contract was made under which Zanuek was emitted to

buy 10 shares of the common stock owned by Schenck and 10 shares of
the common stock owned by Goetz at a nominal price of $100 a share.

His salary reduced from $4,000 to $2,000 a week and he was permitted to retain $100,000 which had been advanced to him by Schenek

in anticipation of Zanuck's 10 per cent share of the net earnings
under the original personal service contract.

Zanuek then had a 20 per cent interest in Twentieth Century for

the nominal sun of $2,000.

In his tax return for the year 1934 Zenuck did not report the
income represented by his purchase of these 20 shares at a nominal
price of $100 a share. In September 1936 a revenue agent reopened
Zanuck's return for the year 1934, and recommended that Zanuek and

his wife be assessed an additional tax of approximately $100,000
based upon a book value of $10,100 per share.

In August, 1938, a merger was effected between Twentieth Century,

Inc., and Fox Film Corporation under a plan of reorganization which

required Twentieth Century, Inc., to transfer all of its assets to Fox
Film Corporation in exchange for stock in Fox Film Corporation. The

name of Fox Film Corporation after the merger was Twentieth Century-Fox

Film Corporation. The name of the old Tventieth Century Pictures, Inc.,
was changed to 8-0-2 Corporation, and it was shortly afterward dissolved.

In effecting the merger SWO classes of stock were issued. The
preferred stock represented the assets of both corporations. The book of

Value of Fox assets was approximately $37,000,000. The book value the

Century assets was approximately $4,000,000. Preferred stock in
amount of 1,356,000 shares was issued, each share being valued for

purposes of the merger at about $30 a share. Fox stockholders received
1,225,000 shares of preferred stock and Century stock holders received
188,000 shares of preferred stock on the basis of the respective assets
of the two corporations.

208

...
The common stock was treated for purposes of the reorganization
as if is had no monetary value. The old stockholders of Fox received
the now common stock on the basis of one-half share of common for

each share of new preferred, 1. .. 613,000 shares of common stock.

An equal amount of common stock was issued to stockholders of Century.

When received by Century the preferred stock was allocated in
accordance with the stockholdings of record, that is 40 per cent to
Schenck, 40 per cent to Goetz and 20 per can't to Zanuek. The common

stock was divided on the bais of 35 per sent to Schenck, 35 per cent
to Goots and 30 per cont to Zanuck. Although Schenek through menipu-

lation of the asset value per share of preferred stock apparently made
18 appear to Zanuck that Zanuek was receiving 30 per cont of the
preferred as well as so per cent of the common and that Gootz and he
only 35 per sent of the preferred, this was not actually the fact.
This trickery of Zanual is relevant only because 11 tends to establish
that stock holdings of the taxpayers were in feet the same as they were
of record, namely 40 per cent in Schenck, 40 per cent in Goetz and 20
per cent in Zanuck.

The actual distribution among Century stockholders of the new
preferred stock in Twentieth Century-Fox was as follows:
Total Shares
referred
kholders
,000 at $30

22,000

canon stokholders
noe Preferred

(Basis 20-40-40) 110.000
132,000

Zanyck

-

Goots

Schenek

11,000(50%)

11,000(50%)

22.000(205)

44.000(40%)

44.000(40%)

22,000

55,000

55,000

The purported distribution among Century stockholders of new
preferred stock in Twentieth Century-Fox was as follows
Total Shores

referred
icholders

,000 at #12 per
Value reached
orking bbokward on
ack's orders)

Zanuck

-

Goots

Schemek

30,000

30,000

25,000(36%)
55,000

85,000(355)
55,000

59,000

00 Preferred stock

- stockholderes
is 30-35-38)

73,000
132,000

82,000(305)
22,000

The distribution among Century stockholders of the new common

stock in Twentieth Gentury-Fox was as followst
Total Shares
613,000

Zannek
183,000(30%)

Goots
214,000(30%)

Schonck

214,000(35%)

289

The 613,000 shares of common stock of Fox received by Century
and later distributed to Schenck, Gootz and Zenuok when Century

dissolved may have been paid for the good will and the cincellation
of personal service contracts which Century had with Zanuek and
Schenck.

Century which had a high earnings record might have refused to
enter into the merger without adquate compensation for the risk in
the form of a 50 per cent out of future earnings. This would ordinarily

be accomplished through an equal distribution of the CORMON stock besween Fox and Century since the preferred stock had been issued against
the assets.

There is nothing in the Internal Revenue Code which appears to
require that after . morger the new stock holdings be in the same

ratio as the asset values of the merged corporation in order to constitute a nontaxable reorganization.
The very fact that there is a reorganization implies a bargaining power on the part of the corporations which are parties to the
reorganization. If one party is able through superior borrowing power
to obtain what appears to be a disproportionate amount, this excess
may be ascribed to the superiority of that party's bargaining position.

But that is not all that there is to this case. The manner in

which the common stock allocated to Century 14 divided among the share-

holders in Century is persuasive evidence that here is something which
is not a normal reorganization, nor germane to a normal reorganization

After providing for the return of the capital invested in preferred

stock in Century, the new preferred stock was distributed to the common
stockholders in Century in accordance with their stockholdings.
The 35-35-30 division of common stock was not in accordance with

the holdings of 40-40-20, and was not in accordance with usual corporate

Pactice upon liquidation after . reorganization.

Shareholders in Century night, of course, make a private deal among
themselves. But if there were such a private internal arrangement among
the stockholders of Century, it was extraneous to the reorganization.

It was the lark on the back of the eagle.

This is illustrated by article XI of the plun of merger which

provided that Century and its stockholders agreed to transfer the new
preferred and new common stock to the stockholders of Century "in the

proportions set forth in annoxed and made a part

hereof, solely in exchange for the Century stock held by such Century
stockholders." Having in mind Zanouk's stock in Century and the proportions
set forth in Exhibit E (which were not in accordance with the actual stockholdings), 11 is rather appearant are there was encrusted upon the reorganize- was

tion plan on artifice not germand 10 the promatization. The purpose
to cleak the income received by Zanuek with the immunity of a nonfaxable
reorganization.

In addition to the distribution to which Zanuek was entitled by
reason of the distribution of Fox stock to Century stockholders, his Zanuck consent

had apperently exacted a further consideration in return for his enteras a CORMON stockholder of Century to the reorganization plus Fax.
ing into a new personal service contract with Twentieth Century

270

--of course, cash need not pass in order that taxable income be
realised. Instead of receiving cash, Zanuck received stock over and
above his pro rata share in Century. This income is taxable and
should have been returned by Zanuck in his 1935 return.

The facts disclosed by the investigation tend to show that
Zanuck willfully attempted to evade his income tax. Curiously, howover, the deficiency due to Zanuck's fraud is diminished to the extent of the fraud perpetrated by Schenok on Zanuck. In other words,
if the preferred stock, as distinguished from the common stock, of
the new Twentieth Century Fox Film Corporation USD distributed to

Zanuck on a 40-40-20 basis in accordance with his basic holdings in
Century, then the amount which he got to boot over his proportionate
share consists of about 62,000 shares of common stock. on the other
hand, if the new preferred stock was distributed on a 35-35-50 basis,
as Zanuck has been led to believe by Schenck, the deficiency in
Zanuck's income tax due to Zanuck's froud is increased by the market
value of the excess shares of preferred stock which he received.

Were it not for the dispropertionate distribution, the nontaxability of the reorganization would probably not be questioned.
But this fact, considered in the light of such events as the withholding of Exhibit E from the plan of merger submitted for a ruling

by the Commissioner of Internal Revenue, the attempts to conceal the
telegraphic communications between Zanuck and Schenck aboving the

true nature of the transaction, the submission of apparently false
and misleading affidevits to the Bureau of Internal Revenue, the
obvious evasiveness of Sanuck and Schenck when questioned at the

Department of Justice. the evidence of the bribery by Zanuck's former
business agent of the Internal Revenue Agent who first found that
Zanuck had failed to report his 1954 income properly, and similar

indications of intent to conceal, warrants a grand jury investigation
for the purpose of shedding more light on the criminal aspects of
the case.

In addition to establishing Zanuok's civil and criminal liability
such a grand jury investigation might also bring out more fully the
artives back of Schenck's sudden altruistic endeavors to protect
Zanuck, as well as Schenck's own civil and criminal liability in connection with his deduction for a shan loss on the sale of stock and
false deductions for business expenses, as asserted in the letter to
the Acting Assistant Attorney General from the Acting Commissioner of
Internal Revenue dated July 14, 1939.

The reports of the Intelligence Unit upon which the tax liability
in this case is predicated disclose utter lack of respect for law and a
contempt for civic obligations by several of the principals involved.
In assessing income taxes, the Government must rely to a large extent
upon the disclosure by taxpayers of all relevant facts. To discourage
fraudulent attempts to evade taxes, Congress has, therefore, imposed

criminal as well as civil sanctions. The utility of the fraud penalty

as a remedial sanction in safeguarding the revenues of the Government

is not impaired by the collateral use of the criminal senction, is and
and indictment and trial for the making of a fraudulent return
more effective as a deterrent than a hearing before the Board of Tax
in a civil case. The oft-quoted rule which excludes from
Appeals consideration the motive of tax avoidance is not pertinent to a truth. situs-

tion such as this in which taxpayers knowingly try to hide the

CLKIt
10/81/89

PARAPHRASE OF TELEGRAM RECEIVED

FROM: American Embassy, Paris, France

DATE: October 31, 1939, 1 p.m.

M

271

No.: 2616
FOR THE TREASURY DEPARTMENT.

eference is made to telegram No. 1331 of October so
from you.

The brief and superficial article published by Caillaux
1a for the most part prepagants for the tabloid reading
public. The article consists largely of n rehash of previously
published material. In the beginning of his statement he
quotes at some length the view which Dr. Brinkmann supposedly

delivered in an address a short time before his "nervous
breakdove and which was published in the March 18, 1939
issue of the AGENCE ECONOMIQUE ET FINANCIERE. Despatch No.

4072 of March 21, 1939 from the Embassy contained the full

text of that article. It was not eabled at the time apparently
due to the fast its authenticity was questionable.
END SECTION ONE.
BULLITT.

EA:LNW

272

RFP

GRAY

Paris

Dated October 31, 1939
Rec'd 2:15 p.m.

Secretary of State
Washington

2616, October 31, 1 p.m. (SECTION TWO)

Caillaux quotes Brinkmann as saying: "all our reserves
are entirely Exhausted. By the methods which WE have EM-

ployed WE have arrived at a much lower quality of production
and a cost of production considerably higher (***) WE have
had EVEN to pay for a cannon a price for which WE should
normally receive ten cannons and EVEN that cannon is of an

inferior quality as has been proved beyond question". With
this as a preamble Caillaux discusses lightly "three ESSENTIAL

things to consider: the lack of food supply for the people;
the question of oil and that of iron or E" HE then proceeds
to "borrow" from the recent sensational book of Lajos "Germany
war chances" to show that the German foodstuff situation is

worse than in 1914; he quotes no figures in this respect.
After a general assertion that the German population is "undernourished" he hastens to add that "it is hardly probable that
foodstuffs restrictions will determine the issue of the con-

flict". Turning to oil he says that through its Efforts
toward autarchy Germany in 1937 was able to produce by
synthetic

273

RFP -2- #2616, October 31, 1 p.m. (SECTION TWO) from Paris
synthetic means SOME 35.9% of the 5,150,000 tons consumed.
BULLITT
HPD

274
REB

GRAY

Paris

Dated October 31, 1939

Rec'd 3:50 P. m.

Secretary of State,
Washington.

2616, October 31, 1 p. m. (SECTION THREE)

German Economists, he says, Estimate war time petroleum needs

at not less than 15 or 20 million tons per annum and SOME

of these at 30 or EVEN 40 million tons. Taking the most
favorable minimum of 15 million tons he asks where it is to
be found. HE states that Rumanian production fell from
8,700,000 tons in 1936 to 6,350,000 tons in 1938 and at the

most Germany could obtain there but 4 or 5 million tons of
its indispensable imports. As for Russia he quotes a recent
issue of the ECONOMIST (September 2) to the Effect that

Russian Exports have fallen from 6,000,000 in 1932 to 11,000
tons in 1938 that all these Exports hitherto pass through
the Black SEA and that lack of tank cars will prevent "appreciable quantities from reaching Germany" (presumably by overland route). HE stresses the authenticity of ECONOMIST

articles and the importance of oil in modern motorized and
air warfare. HE asks whether "the Germans have not shown a

singular lack of foresight in basing their strategic conceptions on a liquid of which they do not EVEN possess the
smallest portion."
BULLITT

CSB

275
GRAY

RFP

Paris

Dated October 31, 1939
Rec'd 3:08 p.m.

Secretary of State
Washington

2616, October 31, 1 p.m. SECTION FOUR)

HE then turns to iron ore of which German production in
1937 he says was but 8,620,000 tons compared to imports of

20,620,000 tons. (Curiously enough he omits mention of the
important percentage of the imports furnished by France
(thousand?)
namely 7,133 million tons.) Sweden of course will be the

principal source of supply and he points out that the
greater part of Swedish iron ore Exports hitherto have COME

through the Atlantic port of Narvik which is vulnerable to
British blockade. To ship quantities of iron ore to Germany
by the Baltic he says "would necessitate the construction of
a special railway". HE then mentions Germany's desperate

Efforts to increase iron and steel production through the

requisitioning of park gates, iron grill doors, et cetera.
HE intimated that the Turks revealed on March 1, 1939, that
six steel ships produced by Krupp and recently delivered to
Turkey "had immediately to be withdrawn from circulation and

subjected to a complete overhauling". As authority he cites
the newspaper TAN. Caillaux then proceeds to devote the
remainder

276

RFP -2- #2016, October 31, 1 p.m. SECTION FOUR from Paris

remainder of his article to cursory Examination of German
psychology and the theory that Germany through its
appliance to SCIENCE has narrowed German intelligence with

respect to "general ideas". HE concludes his article with the
following paragraph:
BULLITT
WWC

277

PARTIAL PARAPHRASE, SECTION FIVE OF TELEGRAN NO. 2616

of October 31, 1939, from the American Embassy, Paris

"The policies of all nations derive from their geography
are the words of a conqueror who happened to think strongly.
The history of the great people, whose defects Tecitus
defined #020 1800 years age when he measured their per-

petual uneasiness, their continual instability, 1e the most
laring vindication of the Napoleenie formula".

In local circles the article did not attrect such attention, and we wonder how much of it was really written by
Caillaux; the article appeared in the newspaper on an inside
page. Since the var French publications of verying degrees
of seriousness have of course published various statements
on the economy of Germany, based on stale and probably in-

complete statistics, or propaganda or guess work. The
Embassy has not been reporting then on the assumption that

our Embassy at Berlia has been sending you are reliable data
of that nature, something on the order of that contained
in Berlin's telegram No. 110 of February 9, which gave an
excellent survey.
END MESSAGE.

03V13038
BULLITT.

THENTHA930

EA:LNW

I

eeer

way

Mt

278

GRAY

EDA

LONDON

Dated October 31, 1939
RECEIVED 5:05 p.m.

Secretary of State
Washington

2230, October 31, 8 p.m.
FOR THE SECRETAR OF THE TREASURY. STRICTLY CONFIDENTIAL.

Whigham COME in to SEE ME today and gave ME a re-

vised list of securities which now total about $809,000,000.
Included in this however is $80,000,000 worth of Dominion
and Colonial securities which may not be very easily
handled in American markets. Included also in this figure

is $42,000,000 worth of securities sold during the last
two months: $24,000,000 in September and for the first
20 odd days of October 18,000,000, but they granted quite
a few permissions for sales last WEEK, and what the

final figure for October will DE, I do not know.
This $609,000,000 is made up as follows: governments

47,000,000 foreign, municipal and provincial 7,000,000
Dominion and Colonial 81,000,000 utility 94,000,000

railroads 80,000 industrial bonds 364,000 industrial stocks
386,000,000 industrial supplementary 92,000,000 bank,
insurance and trust 22,000,000.

On the B list, which are the securities that will
be

279

EDA - 2 - #2230, October 31, 8 p.m. from London

be very much slower to handle, the total is about
$126,000,000 made up as follows: foreign governments,
municipcls, Et CETERC 1,000,000 utility 25,000,000

railroads 20,000,000 industricl 69,000,000 banks, insurance and trust 11,000,000.

Butterworth is taking these corrected lists with
him on the plane next Wednesday.

(ne of the great difficulties that Whigham finds
himself in the midst of with the Treasury is that for
the Br tish Government to take possession of these SE-

curities they must give out the list. To my way of
thinking, if they EVER give out this list, you can
kiss the market "good bye" as far as most of these
securities are concerned, unless WE have a wildly
bullish American market. So I have urged strongly that
this should not be done and he has now proposed to the

Treasury a scheme to Eliminate the publishing of the

list. WhEthEr this will be accepted or not, I do not
know. I do know it will be very bad for us if a list
is EVER made public of these securities.
HE has made a list of approximately SEVENTY odd

securities on which he thinks he can reasonably soon
raise something over $400,000,000 and since the total

they want to raise for the first year is $500,000,000,
if this liquidation works out as he plans, he will be
well

RBA - 3 - #2230, October 31, 8 p.m. from London

280

well satisfied. HE is going to give ME the list of
securities that make up this total and I will send it
to you just as soon as I have it.
As a matter of information he told me he saw
the plans yesterday for the new loan and he said the
British Government are hoping to raise 500,000,000 pounds.He

of course knows they wont reach it. The rate will be
somewhere between 2g and 3% and they have plans for forced

distribution of the bonds that are not taken which he
says makes very unpleasant reading. HE was loath to

give the details so I did not press him.
KENNEDY
RR

03V13038
ecer
1

281

GRAY

AC

Paris

Dated October 31, 1939
Rec'd 7 p.m.

Secretary of State
Washington

2625, October 31, 7 p.m.
FOR THE TREASURY.

A decree published in the Journal Official this
morning suspends the issue of the Eighteen month
bonds issued by the Autonomous National DEfEnSE Board

under authorization of July 12, 1938 (Embassy's des-

patch No. 2621 of July 13, 1938) from today. (These
are not to be confused with the two year armament
bonds launched this past summer, telegram No. 1236,

July 1, 1 p.m.) A further decree provides that
beginning today ordinary Treasury bills with maturities
of six months and one year will be issued under the
name of "armament bonds", the former to bear two and

one half per cent interest and the latter one per
cent. This decree is intended to stimulate public
interest in purchases of short term Government
issues and is supplemented by a further decree set-

ting up a "national committee" charged with supporting
the Government's (war) Effort notably by propaganda
for

282

- 2 - #2625, October 31, 7 D.M. from Paris
for the subscription to armament bonds permitting
this committee which is designed on a smaller scale
and by more Gallic methods as a sort of counterpart
t our wartime liberty loan committees includes twentyfour distinguished French public men headed by Genneral
Nollet, President of the Autonomous National DEFENSE

Board. It includes representatives of the Prime
Minister, the Ministers of Finance, Armament, Broadcasting, the General Commissioner of Information, and
Communication: Cardinal Verdier, Pastor Boegner,

President of the Protestant Federation of France,
Grand Rabbi Schwartz, the Governor of the Bank of
France, the Presidents of the Paris Stock Exchange,
Bar and Medical Associations, the Chamber of Commerce,

the President of the Academy of Agriculture, Et cetera.
(END SECTION ONE)
BULLITT
DDM

283

GRAY

AC

Paris

Dated October 31, 1939

Rec'd 7:29 p.m.

Secretary of State
Washington

2625, October 31, 7 p.m. (SECTION TWO).

Reynaud in addressing a fight talk to the abovementi ned national committee today at its organization
meeting announced that in contrast to the last war
where no "comilete budget" was voted he is presenting

in a few days a budget "whichover
exclusive of military
EXPENSES of course amounts to/66,000,000,000 francs

and which will be balanced". HE added that in spite
of "gigantic Expenditures" made abroad, FrEnch forsign Exchange reserves have not been touches thanks

to the return of capital which still continues. HE
added, "You can say that deposits in savings banks

EXCEED withdrawals, that the circulation of bank notes

is decreasing and that French rentes are at quotations higher after two months of war than on the
EVE of Munich."

The Journal Official likewise publishes the
forms for the declarations of assets held abroad

which

- 2 - #2625, October 31, 7 p.m. from Paris

which as provided in the partinent decrees (our telegrams numbers 2028, September 18, 1 p.m. and 2394,
October 9, 7 p.m.) must be submitted December ]

covering holdings as of November 15. Copies will be
forwarded by mail.

A further measure in this morning's Journal

Official authorizes the ministries of Agriculture,
Finance and Commerce to grant rebates not Excerding

60 francs per quintal for certain quantities of sugar
imported prior to November 1 with a view to maintaining necessary stocks. (END SECTION TWO ).
BULLITT
DDM

284

285
GRAY

HSM

Paris

Dated October 31, 1939

Rec'd 7:35 p. m.

Secretary of State,
Washington.

2625, October 31, 7 p. m. (SECTION THREE).

The month End liquidation passed off quite satis-

factorily with a carry-over rate of one half per cent
compared to three-quarters per cent a month ago and one-

half per cent for the mid-month liquidation. The curb
rate was reduced from SEVEN and a half per cent to five

and a half per cent. REntES continued their recent advance
moving up from seventy centimes to one franc twenty-five.
The Italian Cabinet changes which are most WELCOME here

in part accounted for a further advance of Suez of 440
francs. The recent better tone of the Paris stock market

is due in part to the possibly over-optimistic belief that
the lack of activity on the western front may be from
"hsaitation". (Bourse circles thus SEEM to overlook the
fact that the heavy rains of the past fortnight would in
any EVENT have prevented large scale operations.)

After November 2 the securities market will be open
PER from:11:30 to 1:30 from Monday to Friday instead of the

12 to 2:30 hours previously prevailing.
BULLITT

WWC
RR

286
GRAY

HSM

Paris

Dated October 31, 1939
Rec'd 7:47 p.m.

Secretary of State,
Washington.

2625, October 31, 7 p. m. (SECTION FOUR).

Today's financial press carries the following communique issued by the Caisse Generale de Reports Et de

Depots (our telegram No. 2615, October 30, 7 P. m.) :
"All deposits entrusted to the bank are COVERED by

immediately available assets. The Mendelssohn credit
is not included in these assets and the loss which may

result therefrom will not affect the capital. The Caisse
Generale de Reports et de Depots will continue its opera-

tions as in the past and will maintain full activity on
the bourse". Agence Economique ED Financiere indicates

that the foregoing occasioned no surprise in BElgium in
VIEW of Earlier rumors but holds that shareholders will

inevitably suffer.
The same official reports that the Swiss Federal
Government yesterday approved the budget for 1939 at a

lEVEL of 596,500,000 Swiss francs with a deficit of
pret

73,000,000. (END OF MESSAGE).
BULLITT
DDM

October 31, 1939
10:19 a.m.

HMJr:

287

Hello.

Operator:

Mr. Welles is out of his office for a little while.

HMJr:

O. K.

0:

All right.

I'll have
him
call you. She says she can reach him
in
a little
while.

11:45 a.m.
Operator:

Go ahead.

HMJr:

Hello.

Summer

Welles:

Good morning, Henry.

HMJr:

How are you?

W:

I'm fine, thanks.

HMJr:

W:

Summer, I don't know whether you have any new ideas

on this thing.
Well, I have two.

HMJr:

Good.

W:

I have talked with Mr. Hull

HMJr:

Yeah.

with regard to our talk yesterday evening.

W:

HMJr:

Yeah.

W:

And he feels that he couldn't spare Pasvolsky now.

HMJr:

I see.

W:

He needs him here to do certain work for him.

HMJr:

(Laughs) Excuse me if I laugh.

-2-

W:

HMJr:

And my own personal suggestion is -- I don't know

what you think of it
Yeah.

if you wouldn't consider trying to get

W:

Roswell Magill to go.
HMJr:

No. No -- I -- he's no use on that sort of thing.
You think he would not.

HMJr:

No.

W:

He did a very good job for the Cuban government,
you know.

HMJr:

Well that was his field, which is taxes, and when
he was here in the Treasury he took no interest
in anything except taxes.

W:

Um-hm.

HMJr:

He's excellent on taxes but not on

W:

Yeah.

HMJr:

No.

W:

Well, that's too

HMJr:

And I -- I had to -- oh gosh, I had to go down on
my knees and kiss his big toe to get him to do that.

WH:

Um-hm.

HMJr:

The Cuban one.

W:

Yeah.

HMJr:

Well, how about you?

Well, the only thing -- the only thing that I've
got is I thought about it -- was this that as of

Friday Mr. Duggan was to go and I'd like very much
to see him go and represent us as well as you and
then we'd be pleased to let Cotton and Hanson and

W:

Schmidt go also - all three.
All right. That may be the best suggestion but

I'd better talk it over with Mr. Hull.

288

289

-3HMJr:

Ah

W:

Can I let you know and I'11 see you at three this

HMJr:

Oh, surely. Surely, but we'd like to see Duggan go.

W:

afternoon?

And we'd give him these three men.

All right, Henry.

HMJr:

Hanson talks Spanish and Schmidt talks Portugese.

W:

Um-hm.

HMJr:

So that

W:

All right. Well, I'11 take that up before I see you.

HMJr:

Righto.

W:

Thanks.

HMJr:

Thank you.

W:

Goodbye.

290

October 31, 1939
12:05 p.m.
Eddie

Greenbaum: Hello.
HMJr:

Eddie

G:

Yes, Henry.

HMJr:

I'm calling you up on Treasury business.

G:

Yeah.

HMJr:

We have a very difficult tax case. Whether -- the
difference between Justice and the Treasury and in
and within the Treasury. I've never done this before but I'm asking three people to come down for
the Treasury, if they'11 come, and listen to our
own Treasury lawyers to advise me and I'm asking
you and Magill and Knollenberg.

G:

HMJr:

Yeah.

This 16 entirely agreeable to Foley, Hanes and Guy

Helvering. They're all tickeled to death. See?

G:

Yeah.

HMJr:

It's -- the case is the reorganization of Twentieth

G:

HMJr:

Century Fox and I take it you have nothing to do
with those people.

No, I'm not in on that.

And it -- it's due to outside pressure, - I don't

want to find myself being unduly tough or unduly
soft, you see?

G:

Yeah.

HMJr:

But there are outside people who have interested

themselves in it. Now, it's largely a matter of

charity on your part. We can pay you the magnificent sum of $25 a day and your expenses and

railroad fare.
G:

Oh, I'11 be willing to do it.

HMJr:

But I think -- I think it would take about two days.

-2-

G:

HMJr:

G:

HMJr:

291

Well, have you set any time for it?
Well, I would like to make it this Thursday and
Friday if possible. I haven't -- you're the first
person
I've talked to. I don't know how the others
are fixed.
Ah -- you'd want to know right away, wouldn't you?
Yeah, I'd like to have you people tell me and I

told the people here in the Treasury if -- whatever -- if it's unanimous I'll abide by whatever
you people say and Hanes says he'11 do the same.

G:

Yeah. Well let me call you back later - I'll phone
you early this afternoon as to whether I could
rearrange things for those days.

HMJr:

It's -- it's a very big case, terrific political

pressure on Justice to drop it, you see?
G:

Well Henry, let me call you back later in the day
on those days because

HMJr:

G:

And I'm not -- I'm not going to -- I'm not telling
the Justice that I'm asking you people. It will
be purely a Treasury matter.
Yeah, that's to advise Treasury.

HMJr:

Yeah.

G:

Yeah.

HMJr:

Yeah.

G:

Is it something that would be detrimental to wait

until next week - Monday or Tuesday or
HMJr:

I'm afraid -- yeah because

is there a rush that it has to be done this

G:

week?
HMJr:

I tell you why.

G:

I'm kind of scheduling my time.

-3 HMJr:

292

Well I'll tell you why. There are really three pieces
to it. There's only one part that I'm bothered - the
one piece - these fellows involved who were -- it's
the Mayer estate of -- Ge tts' son-in-law 18 in
it and Schenck and Zanuck. See?

G:

HMJr:

Yeah.

We claim that they bribed Treasury agents and we've

dropped it. The -- what do you call it -- statute

of limitations expires on November 10th on that part
of it, you see?

G:

Yeah.

HMJr:

And they are in the midst of presenting it to Grand
Jury.

G:

Well then it 18 a hurry thing that way?

HMJr:

There is -- I mean, this is a very minor part of it.

G:

Yeah, but this

HMJr:

But there 18 a statute of limitation running against
us.

G:

Yeah.

HMJr:

See?

G:

Well, I'11 phone to you early this afternoon if I
can rearrange things for those dates.

HMJr:

G:

HMJr:
G:

HMJr:

But I would -- I say, I've never done this before

but everybody said it was a happy solution.
Well I can see you want to get some sort of an impartial
Yes.

that work on it.
Yes, because it's -- it's never happened before that
we've had such a direct cleavage not only in our
Department but as between our own people and -- and
the Department of Justice.

293

G:

Have you asked Magill and Knollenberg yet?

HMJr:

No, I called you first.

G:

I see. Well, I'll say definitely that I'll do it.

HMJr:
G:

Swell.

But I can't say definitely that I'll come down --

well that would mean coming down tomorrow night.
HMJr:

Yeah.

G:

And I can let you know that later in the afternoon.

HMJr:

O. K.

G:

All right, fine. Then you can sound them out of
their timing too.

HMJr:

Right.

G:

All right, Henry.

294

October 31, 1939
12:11 p.m.
HMJr:

Roswell

Magill;

How are you?

I'm glad to hear your voice. I didn't know what

had happened to you.

HMJr:

Well, I only call you up when I

M:

You' re in dire distress I suppose.

HMJr:

Yeah, and I am again.

Well, I have had very agreeable conversations with
your father and mother in recent weeks.
HMJr:

Swell.

M:

They seem to be in fine shape.

HMJr:

Ros, what I'm calling up about 18 this: We have
most unusual situation. We have a case which has
to do with the reorganization of the Twentieth

a

Century Fox.

M:

HMJr:

Yeah.

There's disagreement between the Treasury and

Justice and in the Treasury itself. Due to outside
influence having been brought to bear, I made the
suggestion this morning to all of the Treasury

people involved that I would ask you, Eddie Greenbaum
and Knollenberg to come down for two days and listen

-- go into this thing and advise me what to do.

M:

HMJr:

M:

HMJr:

X:

Yeah.

This suggestion was entirely agreeable to everybody.
They were enthusiastic about it.
Yeah.

I've just talked to Eddie. Eddie said he will come.
There's a statute of limitations running against us
on November 10th on part of it.
Yeah.

295

-2HMJr:

They bribed one of our employee.
Yeah.

HMJr:

M:

HMJr:

Which is only part - it's the least important part
of it as far as advising me, you see?
Yeah.

So there is some -- and that -- they started to
present that in the Grand Jury in Los Angeles.

M:

HMJr:

Yeah.

I made the suggestion to Eddie, if it was possible,

OF DOING it this Thursday and Friday.
M:

HMJr:

Yeah.

He said he wouldn't know until this afternoon, but
he would make an effort to rearrange his plans.

M:

Yeah.

HMJr:

It's -- it's -- I'm not going to tell Justice about
it and purely -- you'll be coming down to advise me
informally, you see?

M:

HMJr:

Yeah.

I told the people here that whatever the three of you
advised I'd accept it.

M:

Yeah.

HMJr:

And Hanes feels the same way.

Yeah. Well, Henry, I -- it's decidedly the sort of
thing I'd like to do and I'd -- Thursday and Friday
I think would be all right. I've got -- I have some
engagements I can cancel -- I could cancel, but I

think I could do that.

HMJr:

Right.

I -- however, I run into this. The fact -- if it's
the thing I -- I imagine it is

-3HMJr:
M:

HMJr:
M:

296

Yeah.

Dr. Kline, who is a lawyer up here and also

an accountant

Yes, he's in it.
talked to me last summer about this thing and
wanted to get me in it.

HMJr:

Yeah.

X:

And I said -- I talked the thing over with him and
went over the facts with him somewhat and said I

didn't want to get in it.

HMJr:

Yeah.

M:

And I therefore didn't get in it.

HMJr:

Yeah.

Now, I -- I don't know, I -- I suppose in view of the
fact that he -- I did have that talk with him and he
disclosed to me some of the facts of the thing from
his own side, that probably I should stay out of it
from your side.

HMJr:

No, I mean -- this is

As I say, I -- I didn't go into it, because -- well,

some of these things you've said. It didn't look to

me like much of a case for me to be mixed up with.
HMJr:

Well -- I mean, you're not in it and so -- I mean,
he -- I don't suppose he disclosed anything to you certainly from our standpoint there isn't any reason

why you shouldn't.
M:

HMJr:

I don't think he disclosed anything to me that 18
not in the records at all, as far as that's concerned.
Well, I mean -- from our standpoint there'd be no
reason why.

M:

HMJr:

Yeah. Well I tell you what -- let me do, if I may,
let -- let me call up Eddie
Good.

-4-

and I'll talk to him a little about it and

M:

let you know.
HMJr:

No, I mean -- of course, if you were in it would
go out of the question but

Well I didn't want to get into it because it looked
to me like a kind of an unsavory case and

HMJr:

M:

HMJr:

M:

Well, it isn't -- I'm not -- the bribery part isn't
the thing. It's the question of the capital gains
in the thing.
Yeah.

And there's complete disagreement in the Treasury
and between the Treasury and the -- on account of

the outside
I want three fellows like you
three
to tellinfluence
me -- well
Well, I think
that this
needless to say I approve of that way of

doing it. I'm glad to see that you' re doing it.
I think it's the thing to do.
HMJr:

Yeah.

And I would like very much to help you out just as
-- as I remember I did once before on that other big
thing where we were -- having a quarrel with Justice.
HMJr:

Yeah. Well, this

I'll call up Eddie
HMJr:

You do that.

and -- and we'll see what we can do about it.
HMJr:

And we'll give you the magnificent sum of your
railroad fare and twenty five dollars a day and
your expenses.

M:

(Laughs) Well, I might let you pay my expenses but
I won't let you pay me anything else.

297

-5HMJr:
M:

HMJr:
M:

HMJr:

Not even your railroad fare?

You can -- might be -- I might let you do that.
O. K.

Well how areyou feeling, Henry?

I feel pretty well.
Is -- how are things going along?

HMJr:

They're going along all right.
I -- I think as far as the world 18 concerned that
this tax program 18 -- I mean, the way that Johnnie
is proceeding at it is being well-received.
Well, I didn't call you because the President and
I decided that we'd do nothing on taxes until we
got this legislation out of the way.

M:

Yeah.

HMJr:

And that's why you didn't hear from me.

M:

Yeah.

HMJr:

But I got

M:

Well I think that's right.

HMJr:

I've got your memorandum in the safe.

M:

Yeah. I see.

HMJr:

I was much obliged.

M:

Well, whenever you're ready let me know and I

HMJr:

Well

-- I'd like a lot to work with you on it.

M:

HMJr:

Well, we do but we thought we wouldn't stir up the
animals.

298

-6-

Well, I think that's right.

M:

Yeah.

HMJr:

O. K.

M:

Thank you, Henry.

Goodbye.

299

300

October 31, 1939
12:16 p.m.
Bernard

Knollenberg: Hello.
HMJr:

Henry Morgenthau, Jr.

K:

How do you do? It's nice to hear your voice.

HMJr:

How are you?

K:

I'm very well, thank you.

HMJr:

Well, I'm calling you up - I need a little help.

K:

Fine.

HMJr:

I'll tell you what it 18, we have a very interestthe Twentieth Century Fox. I find myself in this
position, that the Treasury is in complete dising tax case which involves the reorganization of

agreement with the Department of Justice and we

have two schools of thought in the Treasury.
K:

Yeah.

HMJr:

Plus the fact that there are some very unpleasant
outside influences which have been brought to bear.

K:

Yes.

HMJr:

Therefore, this morning when I listened to my own
people I made the suggestion that -- I would ask
three people to come in and listen to the Treasury's
side and purely to advise me on an informal basis.

K:

Yes.

HMJr:

And then I was suggesting you and Ros Magill and
Eddie Greenbaum.

K:

Yes.

HMJr:

I called up the other two gentlemen and they said
they'd be delighted to come down.

K:

HMJr:

Well I, of course, would be too.
But -- and it's purely to advise the Treasury on
what you people think is right and I told my
people this morning that if you people were

-2-

301

unanimous, whatever you decide I would accept.
K:

Yes.

HMJr:

And Hanes said he'd do the same.

K:

Fine.

HMJr:

Now

K:

That's very interesting and I'd love to do it.

HMJr:

Now we have, on one part of it, they've bribed a
Treasury employe and that statute of limitations
expires on November 10th.

K:

HMJr:

Yes.

This part of it is the least controversial -- I

mean, that is, just a sort of a by-product.
K:

HMJr:

Yeah.

An unpleasant one, but a by-product. Therefore,
I suggested to Magill and Greenbrum this Thursday
and Friday.

K:

This -- this coming Thursday and Friday. Now just

let me see. (Brief pause) Well, I could --

Thursday 18 all right. Unfortunately, I am -- am
delivering the opening address at the Franklin
Institute in their Franklin celebration on Friday
afternoon.

HMJr:

Where would that be?

K:

That would be at Philadelphia.

HMJr:

Well, you could give Thursday and Friday up until
noon.

K:

Well, yes -- no, I'd have to leave a little earlier
even if I flew to Philadelphia because I have promised to talk to the Yale Club at lunch beforehand

and I'd -- I'd hate to call it off at this stage.

HMJr:

Well I -- I

-3 K:

302

Thursday and part of Friday -- Friday morning, I
could come, but not beyond about eleven o'clock.

HMJr:

K:

HMJr:

Well,
supposing -- I'm being a beggar, I can't
be a chooser.
Yeah.

Supposing I send word to these two men that you
can be here, shall we say nine o'clock Thursday
morning?

K:

Yes.

HMJr:

And can give us all of Thursday and part of Friday.

K:

HMJr:

Yes, that's correct.
Now can I -- may I leave it this way - that if you
don't hear from me again you'll come to my office

Thursday at nine?
K:

HMJr:

Yes, that'11 be fine.
And the Treasury pays the magnificent sum of your
railroad, your expenses and twenty-five dollars a

day if you'll take it.

K:

I realize that this 18 no get-rich quick.

HMJr:

Yeah.

K:

I'll be there at nine o'clock Thursday morning.

HMJr:

Well, I just wanted to let you know that's what --

K:

All right, fine.

HMJr:

that's what we can do and that's

So, if you don't hear again I'll look for you

Thursday.
K:

Good. It'11 be nice to see you again.

HMJr:

And we'll have everything lined up

K:

Under what Act 18 the -- is the question? I'd
just like to read it over again.

-4HMJr:

303

Gosh, they mentioned a 112 something

Well, 112 -- yes (b) probably, but that -- that

same section was in several Acts with that same
number. I wonder 1f you could have one -- your
secretary drop me a line as to which Act it 18.

HMJr:

Ah -- do you want them to do that and maybe get

off something tonight on it for you?

Well, it would be fine if they could. You see,
if I could have a little of the background I

could be listening in very much more intelligently.
I'll have the Counsel send you up the papers
tonight special delivery 80 that there'll be
something -- care of Yale Library?

Yes, if you will.
HMJr:

They'11 be there in the morning.
Yeah. That's grand.
Ever SO much obliged.
Thank you.

HMJr:

Goodbye.
Goodbye.

304

October 31, 1939
12:24 p.m.

HMJr:
James

Hello.

Farley:

Hello, Henry.

HMJr:

Hello, Jim.

F:

How are you?

HMJr:

Wonderful.

F:

Good. Henry, what did you ever decide, if anything,
on
Tom Lynch's place? Are you just going to let that
coast?

HMJr:

Whose?

F:

Tom Lynch's vacancy where his wife

HMJr:

Oh, I think, if I'm not mistaken, that I have here a

recommendation from the President and he said I should
talk to you about a man by the name of Flynn.

F:

Ed Flynn?

HMJr:

Brother.

F:

Yeah.

HMJr:

I think -- he recommended Ed Flynn's brother for
something.

F:

HMJr:

Well, that's the place.
And I'm having him investigated, but as I remember it
we parted company - he was in the alcohol business.

F:

That's right.

HMJr:

And we weren't satisfied with him.

F:

That's right.

HMJr:

So -- but I thought I'd go ahead and have a formal

F:

report to satisfy

hat's right. I know the story of all that. I'11 talk
to you about it sometime.

-2HMJr:

But that -- but that -- I'm 90 percent sure that's

who he

Fi

I'm sure it is, because I talked with -- I told him

HMJr:

Yeah, I don't think we can take Ed Flynn's brother.

that -- talked with him about that once.

Well, what you ought to do, in my judgment, 1f you'll
pardon the suggestion from me - what you ought to do
18 advance Harry to the place and then do what you

want down below under him.
HMJr:
F:

Advance who?

Foley, the fellow he is the Appraiser there -- next --

Harry Foley from Westchester, you know.
HMJr:

Yes.

F:

Advance -- he's been in -- the surveyor of the.
hasn't he, or was Tom the surveyor?

HMJr:

Yeah. Tom -- Tom was the Appraiser.

Well, this fellow is the surveyor then.
HMJr:
F:

I see.

Foley is the surveyor. Harry T. Foley, he used to be
chairman of Westchester. He's been in there as long
as Tom has.

HMJr:

Yeah, but I think that this job of Tom Lynch's only

pays seven.
F:

Well, I think that -- well, I don't think the other
one pays as much.

HMJr:

You don't.

You look it up. I think the smart thing to do -- from

an -- from an efficiency point of view would be to

advance him, if that can be done, and then do what
you want in Foley's place.

HMJr:

O. K. I'll look into it. I've got no candidate.

305

306

-3F:

Say -- well, I don't care personally. I'm not going

to get in the middle of this one, you know.
HMJr:

Yeah.

I talked with the bose once. He said he wanted to do
something for Jim Townsend, see?

HMJr:

Oh.

F:

And I said to him, "If you want to do something for

Townsend, I don't know how much ability Townsend has,
but advance Foley to that spot and let Townsend have

Foley's place, because I don't think it would be good
judgment to put an outsider in in Lynch's place if

you have

"

HMJr:

Have you told that to the President?

F:

Beg pardon?

HMJr:

Have you told that to the President?

F:

Oh yeah, I told him that a month ago.

HMJr:

0. K.

F:

See?

HMJr:

F:

Well, I'11 leave it this way. I won't do anything
without talking to you first.
Well, I don't -- personally, I haven't -- I'm not
keen one way or the other. I'm not going to get
excited about it.

HMJr:

I won't do anything, Jim, without talking to you.

F:

O. K., Henry. Goodbye.

307
October 31, 1939
3:03 p.m.
Hello.

HMJr:

George

Harrison: Hello, Henry?
HMJr:

Yes.

H:

This is George Harrison.

HMJr:
H:

)

Hello.

I just wanted to let you know I presume this issue will

be a success.

HMJr:

I presume 80.

H:

(Laughs) Well, we're 910 now.

HMJr:

Yeah, Mr. Jones just walked in here and he's smiling.

H:

Yeah.
(Laughs)
to call him
too. I was -- tell him I was just going

HMJr:

All right.

H:

But

HMJr:
H:

Well, she's all right. They like Jones' commodities.
Yeah, I think 80. Well, I think they won't get much

more than about eight per cent.
HMJr:

Eight percent.

H:

'hat's our guess.

HMJr:

0. K.

H:

HMJr:

They're coming in very fast now.
Jones will have to get busy and make some of these
small business men loans.

H:

HMJr:
H:

(Laughs) Yes.
O. K.

Very easy to do.

-2-

H:

All right.
All right.

HMJr:

Goodbye.

H:

Goodbye.

HMJr:

308

309

October 31, 1939
3:48 p.m.

HMJr:

Hello.

Speaker

Bankhead: Henry?
HMJr:

Yes, sir.

B: This 18 Bankhead.
HMJr: How are you?
I hate to interrupt you in a conference but you know
they' ve got all sorts of things floating around up
B:

here

HMJr:

Yeah.

on this neutrality fight. Especially the opposi-

B:

tion, and they're trying to make the sinister suggestion
now on the credits phase of the situation

HMJr:

Yeah.

that there's an understanding of some sort that
the Stabilization Fund, under your control, can be
used -- for instance, firms in England or France might
negotiate credits - that's what they're saying.

B:

HMJr:
B:

HMJr:

Yes.

And then turn those credits or balances over to the
governments of France and England under this Stabilization Fund. Well, nothing of that sort can be done
under the law, can it?

Well, Mr. Speaker, I went into that whole thing with
-- in a letter with Senator Vandenberg and -- a copy
of which I'd be glad to furnish you or to write you
a letter myself. What we did was this - when I

testified up on the Hill

G:

HMJr:

Yes.

they asked me that question and I gave them not my

word and my assurance that at that time we were
permitting the Stabilization Fund to be used in any
manner in the way of a loan.

-2B:

Yes.

HMJr:

To assist these countries

B:

HMJr:

Either to individuals or governments.
Right. And then I furthermore said in answer to a
question from Senator Taft that 1f I was approached
by any government that was at war before taking any
action, I would consult Congress for guidance.

B'

Yes.

HMJr:

And

B:

Well now, will you send me a copy of that letter to
Vandenberg this afternoon?

HMJr:

I'll be glad to and I'll be glad to send up the
up with it.

whole thing and also send somebody -- send Ed Foley
B:

Yes.

HMJr:

Who is looking after it on the Hill for us.

B:

Yes.

HMJr:

How's that?

B:

Well, I wish you would.

HMJr:

How long will you be at your office?

B:

HMJr:

Oh, I think I'll be here probably until 5:30.
Well, he'll be up there within a half an hour.

B:

All right, fine.

HMJr:

And if you want anything in writing from me directly
to you

B:

HMJr:

Yes.

you tell Ed Foley about it -- what you want,

and I'll put my name to it.

310

-3B:

311

All right, and you can send that up tomorrow morning.

HMJr:

You bet.

B:

All right, fine.

HMJr:

How's that?

B:

Fine.

HMJr:

Anything to help.

B:

All right. Thank you.

312

October 31, 1939
4:20 p.m.
HMJr:

Hello.

Lauchlin
Currie:

Hello, Mr. Secretary.

HMJr:

Yes, Lauch.

C:

I thought I'd tell you if you don't already know.

HMJr:

No.

0:

As a matter of interest that the President decided
to hold up

HMJr:
0:

HMJr:

Pardon?

The President decided to hold up the thing - the
estimates at this time

No, I didn't know it.
and put them in with the January

C:

HMJr:
0:

HMJr:
C:

Oh.

one to cover both on the grounds -- I didn't -he took this before I had a chance to talk about the -any figures at all.
He did what?

I mean, I didn't have a chance to talk about any of
the detailed estimates at all.

HMJr:

I see.

C:

He said he was just sort of reluctant to put it out

now and that in grounds of the emergency and the uncertainty

HMJr:

Yes.

and nearness to this other budget coming.

C:

HMJr:
C:

That's all right. Whatever he wants.
So

-2HMJr:

313

It's unimportant.
that was the

HMJr:
C:

No, I don't -- I don't hear things that fast.
(Laughs) Well, I thought you might have because

he thought he might possibly, if the question was
raised
at the press conference this afternoon, you
see.
HMJr:
C:

No, I'm the last one in Washington to hear anything.
(Laughs) Well, you're the first one to have heard
thi 8.

HMJr:

All right. The R.F.O. thing went over beautifully.

C:

It did?

HMJr:

Yeah.

C:

Fine.

HMJr:

I think it will be -- we'11 get about 3 billion dollars'

worth of subscriptions.

C:

No.

HMJr:

Something like that they say.

C:

Good lord !

HMJr:

And it's all right. It's -- we priced -- I priced it
extra good, the first cash offering. The first cash
offering to the public any country in the world, you
know.

C:

HMJr:

C:

That's right, yeah.
And it'11 go around the world that things are good
here and that's what I want.
That's fine.

HMJr:

So we're all right now, for quite a while.

C:

For another few days until something else comes along.

-3HMJr:

No, I don't -- I mean, we're all right on financing.

C:

Oh, yes, as far as cash is concerned, sure.

HMJr:

Yeah.

C:

HMJr:
C:

Yeah. Well, that's fine.
O. K. Thanks for calling.
Not at all. Goodbye.

314

315
RE TWENTIETH CENTURY-FOX
FILM CORPORATION

Present:

October 31, 1939.
9:30 a.m.

Mr. Hanes

Mr. Gaston
Mr. Foley

Mr. Helvering
Mr. Irey

Mr. Wenchel
Mr. Kades

Mrs Klotz

H.M.Jr:

Now, where do we start, gentlemen? Guy?

Helvering:

Well, I take it the purpose of this meeting is
to discuss this California case.

H.M.Jr:

Well, the Twentieth Century-Fox case, yes.

Helvering: As I stated to you the other morning, Mr. Secretary,
there is no doubt in my mind, since I have reviewed
the evidence in this case, that there was no question
about having a tax case there. I was very firmly
convinced and I still think what they did was to
manipulate their proceedings so as to defraud the
Government.

H.M.Jr:

Let me see if I understand the case. I have got

this memorandum here from Foley, see. Now, maybe

I may over-simplify this. John, will you follow
this? I am not going to talk about the Zanuck
thing for the minute. I am just going to talk for

a minute about where the Twentieth Century was
merged with the Fox.

As I understand, there are two things at this point,
one is that we claim that in this merger, that before
the merger, Zanuck had 20 percent interest in Twentieth Century, that on the distribution of the new
Twentieth Century-Fox stock that was distributed
amongst the three of them, between Zanuck, Goetz
and Schenck, on the 560-odd thousand shares of
common stock

Foley:

547,000.

H.M.Jr:

547,000. D. Zanuck got 30 percent of that.
613,000. 547,000 was the proportion of the amount

Foley:

he received.

316

-2H.M.Jr:

He didn't have any preferred stock, so that he
got 30 percent of that, or 10 percent over and
above what his interests were in the Twentieth
Century, and we are contending that on that extra
10 percent, that is a gain which he should pay a

tax on, is that right?

Helvering: Right at that point, Mr. Secretary, the reorganization - when stocks are taken over in the same
proportion in which they are held before, there
is no tax due. It is a non-taxed reorganization.
When they are taken over in a different proportion,
it is taxable. These men found out - they knew

H.M.Jr:

they had taken over a disproportionate part of
their former holdings. Therefore, they commenced
these manipulations to make it appear that Zanuck
had the stock way long before that, which he didn't
have, and make it non-taxable, theoretically.
I'm just going on the theory he had 20 percent and
when he came out of the corporation, he had 30
percent. Right?

Helvering: That is an exact statement.
Irey:

That is all right.

H.M.Jr:

Now, on the Zanuck part, just let's take the Zanuck
part. Is there anybody here that questions that?
I mean, has anybody got any doubts as far as Zanuck
is concerned, that he got 10 percent - he got 30
percent of the 547,000 shares?
He got 30 percent of 613,000 shares, which was the

Foley:

H.M.Jr:
Foley:
H.M.Jr:
Foley:

total common that went to the old company.

He got 30 percent of
..613,000 shares.
And we contend that if he had kept the same proportion, he would have gotten 20 percent?
Yes. There are two points, he would have only gotten
20 percent and the distribution of the common wouldn't

317

-3have
been
nearly
much. It would have been 66,000
shares
instead
of so
613,000.
H.M.Jr:

And
the difference is what we claim he should pay a
tax on?

Helvering:

No, the redistribution in different proportion from

the
original holdings is what makes the reorganization
taxable and doesn't come under the

H.M.Jr:

Then let's leave Zanuck aside. Let's do it the other
way. Let's leave Zanuck to one side. Let me take
the reorganization. The reorganization - there are

how many shares, common shares?
Hanes:

1,226,000 shares of preferred stock went to Fox.
Half of that amount, or 613,000 shares of common,
went to Zanuck. 1,226,000 shares

H.M.Jr:

How many shares of common altogether?

Hanes:

There was twice 613,000.

H.M.Jr:

1,226,000 shares of common stock, of which 613,000
went to the three boys?

Foley:

That is right, on the 35-35-30 basis.
We will just leave that out for a minute. Now, as
I get it, how much preferred stock did they receive

H.M.Jr:

to their interests?

Hanes:

Fox got 1,226,000 in the Century; the three boys,
132,000.

H.M.Jr:

If they had gotten the same amount of common stock

Hanes:

66,000.

H.M.Jr:

We deducted 66,000 from the 613,000?

Foley:

That is right, 547,000.

H.M.Jr:

Now, as I get it, the Bureau says that that 547,000

Helvering:

That is right.

is taxable, is that right?

318

-4-

Foley:

And the Department of Justice says it isn't.
And they say it is a legitimate part of the

Hanes:

Our case - this case says the tax liability is

H.M.Jr:

H.M.Jr:
Hanes:

Foley:

New York business reorganization.

predicated on the excess of 547,00 shares over
the 66,000 which they would have gotten from the
reorganization had they taken proportionate shares.
So we are trying to answer the Department of Justice to collect the tax on 547,000 these three boys got?
Yes, you are claiming tax on 547,000 shares of stock.

We are not asking them to collect it, Mr. Secretary,
we are asking them to put them in jail because they

H.M.Jr:

failed to pay a tax.
But they still would have to pay a tax, wouldn't they?

Foley:

Yes, but we would handle the civil case before the

H.M.Jr:

Now, can somebody give me the position - I mean where
is the disagreement between Justice and ourselves,

Wenchel:

Board.

what is the position they take?
They take the position that the owners of Twentieth
Century were in a bargaining position and therefore
they could bargain to get more money.

H.M.Jr:
Wenchel:

H.M.Jr:

Will you repeat that?
They take the position that the three holders of
stock in Twentieth Century were in a bargaining position and therefore they could insist on a larger
share of the distribution than the other stockholders,
than Fox. Reduced to its lowest terms, that is their
position.

Aren't there other cases like this? This can't be

the only reorganization which has taken place where

one fellow has a lot of non-productive property

and they want to get - they merge management of
non-productive property and management insists on

half the common stock. This can't be the first
time this has taken place.

319

-5Wenchel:

We take the position, Mr. Secretary, that we have
to go behind the scene and find out what happened
before this reorganization and when we do that,
then we find this exchange of telegrams to the

effect that, "I am not going in this unless I can

get some money for my services. I've put all these
services into this Century and I would rather stay
in Century if I am not going to get something for

my ability."
H.M.Jr:

Well, I would do the same thing. I mean, leaving
out whether I would pay a tax on it, if I was in
the place of those three men, I have got a nice
little business and I put $700,000 in it and it
is going like a house afire and if somebody else

comes along that has got $37,000,000 worth of nonproductive assets and says, "Come on, boys, make

this good," before I give up my little business and

give them my name, I am going to ask for a big piece
of that common stock. I can see what motivated it.
Foley:

H.M.Jr:

If I was in business, I would do just the same thing.
Then they tried to cover it up, Mr. Secretary.
That gets down to the question of law. I am just
arguing - I mean, I can understand what motivated
these boys, but what we are getting down to, I am

trying to find out what is the difference between
our boys

Foley:

The Bureau and the Department

H.M.Jr:

And the Department of Justice.

Foley:
Hanes:

That is it.
As I see it, the position is that we claim that that

was not a statutory reorganization under Section 112(b)(4);
the Department of Justice says it was a legitimate
statutory reorganization or consolidation under Section

112(b)(4). That is where the whole difference is, as

I see it.

Irey:
Hanes:

We claim it was an attempt to defraud and they say it
was not.

The Secretary has hit upon exactly the same approach

that I took with the lawyers last night, not knowing
anything about the law, being ignorant of that side.

320

-6I took the position of the ordinary approach to a
business proposition, which in this case, in my
opinion, we are wrong because this was, under
Section 112(b)(4), if I can read the English language,
a legitimate statutory reorganization. If it were
done according to the statutes of the State under
which it was formed, it was a legitimate reorganization. In simple terms, what happened was this,
or what might have happened was this, and they would
have been fools had they done anything else in my
opinion. The Century had a great earning capacity.
Fox Film had no earning capacity but a lot of assets.
Fox Film had $37,000,000 worth of assets but they
weren't earning any money. They wanted brains and

capacity and production ability, which this fellow,

Darryl Zanuck, apparently had in great quantity.
They said, "Let's get together and put our brains
and your assets together; your theatres and my
brains will make us enough money." These follows

said, "That is fine, but you have got a lot of non-

earning assets. We are not going in on a basis
with you other than we take the major share or at
least half of the earning capacity that we can earn

out of this proposition.

So, on the one hand they say, "In order to safeguard

my assets of $37,000,000, I will take out a first
mortgage. I will take the first lien on the property
to the full extent of the $37,000,000." That is
1,226,000 shares of preferred stock. On my side,
with the Century, I say, "I have got $4,000,000 worth
of assets, so I take $4,000,000 worth of preferred
stock." That is the entire value of the company. Any

of the value from that point on rests only in the

earning capacity, as we are able to make it from
this day forward. So, the common stock has no value.
The common stock is just a lien on the future earning
capacity of the company. I take half, you take half.
It has no value. I get 613,000 shares, you get
613,000 shares, but I have got my 4,000,000 of preferred, you have got your 37,000,000 of preferred.

Up to that point, it is a complete statutory re-

organization and entirely legal under Section 112(b)(4).

Helvering: Up to that point.

321

7Hanes:

H.M.Jr:
Hanes:

Yes. I am not talking about the individual distribution of these shares. It makes no difference,
so
far as this particular point is concerned, what
they
how they divide up amongst themselves.

Up to this point, you have got a perfectly legitimate

reorganization, and had Zanuck and these other fellows
done anything other than that, they would have been

absolutely blithering idiots, because they had a treSo, if we base our case on the fact that this was not
a statutory reorganization - and as I take it, this

mendous earning capacity and the other side had none.

memorandum says, "The tax liability is predicated
upon the excess of 547,000 shares of common stock
received by Century stockholders, which was apparently
issued as compensation for personal service contracts
required under the plan of reorganization." Now, just
go one step further. We would never have any reorganizations of a bad company with a good company in order
to make a sound earning structure if we took the
position that you can't reorganize, end the company
itself - not the stockholders, mind you, but the com-

pany itself - have got to take out the same interest

in common stock as they formerly had in the company.
We would never have any reorganizations, because such

a thing as this couldn't happen. They get 547,000
shares which have no physical value but of great earning capacity. Hence, they may have a market value.
If you tax the fellow on 547,000 shares, or $7,000,000,
immediately he pays the Government $5,500,000 in tax.
He is a dumb cluck if he takes that kind of a deal,
because he is selling out his future earning capacity
for $5,500,000. So, you would effectively stop any
reorganizations or any getting together of business
and you would effectively stifle the business of the

H.M.Jr:

country. Therefore, you wrote into the statute
112(b)(4) just to take care of this kind of reorganization. So, up to that point, I think we are wrong.
Now, let me just ask you this. Let's change the

shift a little bit. I am in the banking business

and the XYZ company comes to me and says, "Now,

Mr. Morgenthau, we would like to raise 10 million

dollars," and I say, "Well, the company is all right

but times are difficult and I will look into it.
I say, "All right, I will sell a million shares at

322

-8ten dollars preferred, and then we will issue a
million stock. We will give the subscribers of

the preferred stock 500,000 shares." But we are
the only ones who can raise this money so I am
going to keep 500,000 shares for my firm for my

efforts, see, because, "If you get anywhere, all
right, but if you need 10 million dollars and you
want it, I want half of the property for my firm
and my efforts," and I think that is done every
day in Wall Street. It may not be just on that
proportion. Now, that goes through. I have got
500,000 shares of this common stock as a bonus for
getting them their 10 million dollars. Do I pay a
tax on the 500,000?

Wenchel:

Yes, sir, that is income. That is exactly what
happened to Zanuck a year before that in old Century.
I think the distinction, Mr. Secretary, is this,
that if two corporations come together and perfect
a reorganization, any exchanged stock or assets for
stock as provided for in 112(b)(4), that is not
taxable, but that is not what happened here. Here
we have a situation where two individuals, Zanuck
and Schenck, argued with Fox as to how much they

were going to get if they came into the reorganization.

H.M.Jr:

Sure.

Wenchel:

And that is a different thing entirely.

H.M.Jr:

No, that is what Hanes says.

Foley:

If it were paid in cash or if it were a stock divi-

dend, it would be taxable, and we say it is tied
on as a bonus here and it isn't an integral part of
the reorganization.

H.M.Jr:

Now look, I have been worried about this thing for
this reason, on account of the undue outside influence
which has been injected into this case. The normal
thing would be for me, in my position, to get extra

tough. I don't want to get - the influence to be
extra tough or extra soft by outside influence. It
is just as bad to be extra tough as it is to be extra

soft. I want to be fair. I think I have got a right
to - as far as I know, I have never knowingly been

either extra tough or extra soft. I make mistakes
and hope I always will. I have got a suggestion to

323

-9make which I have never done before. I have done

it in other matters in the Treasury. I would like

to bring in as consultants, three outside lawyers,
Johnny, and the three that I would like to bring
in as consultants - and as far as I am concerned,
I would be willing, if the three were unanimous, to

take their advice. I would like to bring in Roswell

Magill, Knollenberg and Eddie Greenbaum. I would
let the three of them sit down and listen to this
case and if the three were unanimous, as far as I
was concerned, I would take their advice, whatever
they would say. Knollenberg, Roswell Magill and
Eddie Greenbaum. I happened to have thought it over
during the night. I woke up early this morning.
You (Mr. Hanes) know all three.
Hanes:

Sure.

H.M.Jr:

I don't think there are three better men that you
could get. What do you think of that idea, placing
this whole case before them? I am not asking you
to commit yourself on it, but if the three of them
said unanimously, "This is what I would do, either
go ahead or drop it, I, personally, would take their

advice.

Helvering: of course, this would be non-public.
H.M.Jr:
Oh no, I don't want the Department of Justice or
anybody. I just would invite them in and say, "Gentlemen, can you give us a week-end," and then let our
people present the facts to them and let them say,
"Well, this is what I advise the Undersecretary and
the Secretary to do, " but I want Hanes to be one
hundred percent happy over this thing.

Hanes:

I don't think you would find three better fellows in

H.M.Jr:

You couldn't?

Hanes:

No, I know you couldn't find three better fellows to
do the job.
These men are all attorneys. As I say, I don't want
to be - just because of outside influence, I don't
want to be - I mean, a thing like this, the outside
influence in this case is - you can't help but get

H.M.Jr:

the whole country, as far as I am concerned.

324

- 10 angry over the thing and very much annoyed, but on

H.M.Jr:

account of it, I don't want to do something which
isn't fair. Here is the difference of opinion, between the Treasury lawyers and Justice lawyers - I
don't want to bang the desk and tell Frank Murphy
he has got to do this thing.
Mr. Secretary, the very fact that there can be such
a wide diversion of opinion between ourselves and
the Department of Justice certainly says this to me,
if nothing else, that there could have been the same
difference of opinion between any other group of
lawyers, so I can't get myself around to charging
people with fraud, by intent, where we can't agree
amongst ourselves. That is a difficult decision to
make. When you go back to this other thing, I am
not prepared to talk about the distribution of shares
amongst themselves. I am just talking about the
simple reorganization and that, in my opinion, which
is not worth a tinker's damn so far as the legal
side goes - I know that we set up that 112(b)(4) just
to take care of the legitimate reorganizations, to
provide for such emergencies as this, and this is,
in my opinion, a statutory reorganization and as such,
is not non-taxable. Now, you get to the other point
of the distribution of shares, and as I say, I am not
prepared to talk on that, and, personally, I think
they owe us a tax there, but I am not sure about it.
Well, would you be satisfied if I could get these

Hanes:

Absolutely.

H.M.Jr:

Ed?

Foley:

Oh, absolutely. As the lawyers say, this is a close

H.M.Jr:

You would take no offense?

Foley:

I would take absolutely no offense. It is the only

Hanes:

three?

case. This is one of the cases where the courts
divide and it seems reasonable.

thing for you and Mr. Hanes to do under the circumstances.

H.M.Jr:

How about you (Mr. Wenchel)?

325

- 11 Wenchel:

Absolutely, Mr. Secretary.

H.M.Jr:

Guy?

Helvering:

Yes.

H.M.Jr:

Herbert?

Gaston:

I do think it is a device that you should not
resort to unless a case is extremely difficult.
I think it is a device that you should resort

to very, very seldom, because there is very great
danger of its becoming public and exposing these
particular men whom you call in to pressure. But

if this is that kind of a case and if we can come
to complete agreement on it, perhaps it is the

thing to do, but I do think it is a rather danger-

ous precedent.
H.M.Jr:

It is no more dangerous than the three bankers I
called in to advise me on the Bank of America. It
is exactly the same procedure. Here was a different
agency in town disagreeing as to the procedure of
the Bank of America. I called in three of the outstanding bankers around and they are advising the
Office of the Secretary of the Treasury how to
proceed.

Caston:

H.M.Jr:

It is not so important as a major tax case.
The outside influence is the same, it happens to

be the same person.

Gaston:

Yes, I know that, the principle is the same, but
the tax case is, I think, somewhat different. These
men are all in private tax practice.

H.M.Jr:

No, you are wrong.

Gaston:

Knollenberg is, isn't he?

H.M.Jr:

Greenbaum has no tax cases. That is the price he
pays for being my friend.

Gaston:

I guess Roswell Magill doesn't take any cases before
the Treasury but he does act as advisor for law

firms. Knollenberg hasn't any practice at all?

326

- 12 H.M.Jr:

None. He is an employee of Yale University.

Gaston:

Roswell Magill is the only one, then, that is
in tax practice?
I went all through that and if I can't have

H.M.Jr:

Ros Magill come down to advise me, then it is
just too bad. Greenbaum has no cases. He
wouldn't even take a retainer from Mayor LaGuardia

on the old Post-office case.

Gaston:

As to your getting a perfectly sincere, honest,
highly competent opinion from those three men,

I don't think there is the slightest doubt in the

world.
H.M.Jr:

What do you think, Irey?

Irey:

I think it is a very happy solution of our stalemate here. It is the first fraud case I have ever
seen where I thought this would be justified, but

I think it is entirely justified now.

H.M.Jr:

You do?

Irey:

Yes, sir.
Mr. Secretary, there is one element that you want
to consider, and that is that this ought to be done
fairly promptly.

Foley:

H.M.Jr:
Foley:
H.M.Jr:
Foley:

H.M.Jr:

I will get on the phone right away.
Because the case is still pending before the Grand
Jury and the statute is about to run.
I am not going to bother them in the bribery case.
That has a very material effect on whether or not
we can prove the conspiracy here to defraud. If
you can get an indictment of Kadis and the person
that was paid to bribe Kadis, Dover, I think that
you have got a much better chance to prove criminal
intent here, as far as this whole arrangement is
concerned, than if you don't have the indictment.
Ed, I consider this one of the most unusual cases
in the sense of the circumstances around it, and

327

- 13 -

I would rather be slow and be late than to be the
person
responsible
for putting these people in jail
when they
shouldn't be.
Foley:

H.M.Jr:

That is the only thing we were talking about, was
whether we would go ahead and sue for the civil side
and the fraud penalty is entirely up to us, that is
not Justice's problem.

In this thing, should we lay the bribery of Kadis

before these men, too?

Irey:

That has quite a bearing on the case.

H.M.Jr:

I don't see why. What I was thinking is that unless well, you say no. What I was thinking is that the
reorganization of the Twentieth Century-Fox, the block
of stock that the three men got and the distribution
among themselves, as to how they distribute the three,
isn't that the case?

Wenchel:

That is the case.

Foley:

That certainly is the civil case, Mr. Secretary.
There isn't anything to the civil case other than
that.

H.M.Jr:

It is also whether there was criminal intent or not.

Foley:

Then when you are talking about criminal intent, all
these other factors, I think, have a direct bearing.
I think the fact that they approached an agent, that
they made a car available to him, that they hired

this girl

Trey:

and these telegrams.

Foley:

All these telegrams went back and forth between these

H.M.Jr:

Let them decide how much they want to go into.

Irey:

They can't read the case without knowing all of it

fellows, showing what they had in mind. I think all
that has a direct bearing on the criminal side.

anyhow.

Foley:

This other factor

328

- 14 H.M.Jr:

Let them decide. They can go into as much as they

want, but I will invite them down to do this part
and say they can go into it as deeply as they wish
to. Is that the way you would put it, John?
Hanes:

Yes, sir. Knollenberg was coming down here. this
week anyway, I think. He wrote me a letter and
said he was on his way and wanted to see me.

Foley:

Now, you understand, Mr. Secretary, that the files
are over in the Department of Justice and what we

have here are only my files and part of the Chief
Counsel's files and the stuff that Elmer has held
out, but most of the stuff has been turned over to
the Department of Justice and I think if they are

going into everything we have, it would be necessary

to get a lot of that stuff back, wouldn't it?

Irey:

Well, of course we have carbon copies of the greater

H.M.Jr:

That is a detail. Let me see if I can get then down.
They can go down in this conference room downstairs
and the stuff will be made available for them to
read and they can send for whatever they want, if I
can get them to do this. I am going to ask them to
do this thing - I don't think I will offer them any
pay. I am just going to ask them to do it as a per-

part of that.

sonal favor.

Gaston:

Won't they have to be on the rolls as employees in

order to be legally entitled to look at these docu-

ments?

H.M.Jr:

Well, ten dollars, more or less. What about that?

Foley:

I think that is probably correct.

Hanes:

On per diem.

Helvering:

Just pay them a per diem.

H.M.Jr:

Why not - is it agreeable to you, John, that I get

Hanes:

Yes.

busy right on the telephone?

329

- 15 H.M.Jr:

Foley:

Then the Attorney General is coming to lunch. Well,
As far as the Attorney General's office and ours are
concerned, there is nothing waiting any decisions.
They are trying this fellow Kadis, now, aren't they?
Well, they are presenting evidence to the Grand Jury

he has asked for the lunch. I can just listen, right?

in connection with the income tax - failure to report
income on the part of the man who is supposed to have
gotten a $100,000 bribe in that labor dispute.

Foley:

But they are not doing anything about this other thing?
They are also presenting the Kadis case and they
haven't begun, really, to present anything in so far
as the main case is concerned.

Irey:

It was the understanding they would not do that.

H.M.Jr:

What is the maximum I should pay these men per day

H.M.Jr:

H.M.Jr:

if I wanted to pay them, or if they wanted pay.
Twenty-five dollars a day.
And five dollars per diem?

Hanes:

Yes.

H.M.Jr:

And their expenses here and back. Anybody got any
doubts about doing it this way?

Helvering:

No, I am very happy to have those men come in and
pass on the question.

Hanes:

Irey:
H.M.Jr:

Just entirely clean up the situation, one way or the

other.

Let's let it go that way. I will get on the phone
right away.

6

Prepared by: Mr. Murphy
Mr. Lindow
Mr.
Tickton
D
Mr. Haas

330

TREASURY DEPARTMENT

CONFIDENTIAL

INTER OFFICE COMMUNICATION

DATE October 31, 1939
TO

Secretary Morgenthau

FROM

Mr. Haav YOR
Subject: Current Developments in the High-Grade Securities
Markets

SUMMARY

(1) Long-term Government bonds advanced slightly, on net

balance, during the past eight days, while short-term
issues showed a small decline (Chart I). All maturity
classes of United States securities have now recovered

a substantial portion of their war crisis declines.
The recovery in the case of the 1-3 year notes amounts
to practically the entire ground lost. Longer bonds,
on the other hand, have recovered only a little more
than half of their declines. On Monday, October 30,
the average yield on long-term Treasury bonds was
unchanged from the previous week (Chart II).

(2) The Federal Reserve banks allowed another $12.5 mil-

lions of Treasury bills to run off last week (Chart
III). Together with the new Treasury offerings, this
brought the month's increase in the market supply of
some of the bills previously held by non-banking

bills to $168 millions. All of this increase, plus

holders was taken up by weekly reporting member banks,

thereby reversing the previous trend (Chart IV).

(3) High-grade corporate bonds advanced slightly last week

(Chart II). Municipal bonds were also firm, the DowJones average of yields of twenty 20-year bonds declining 3 basis points. State of New York bonds were considerably stronger than the run of municipals, the
yield on the 3's of 1971 dropping 16 basis points
during the week (Chart V). No new corporate issues
were publicly offered last week; municipal issues
offered were reported to have been sticky.

(4) British Government securities were strong early last
week. Consols reached a high of 68-3/8 on Thursday,
but closed on Monday, October 30, at 67-7/8, to yield
3.71 percent (Chart VI). The Bank of England reduced
its discount rate from 3 percent to 2 percent on

Thursday, and British short-term money rates dropped
sharply. French 3 percent perpetual rentes were practically unchanged last week, but jumped more than a
point over the week-end.

331

Secretary Morgenthau - 2

I. United States Bonds and Notes
Long-term Government bonds advanced slightly, on net bal-

ance, during the past eight days, while short-term issues
showed small declines (Chart I). Both the long and short ends
of the market were weak on Thursday and Friday, but by Monday
the net losses for the week had been made up in the case of
the longer maturities. The average yield of all long-term
Treasury bonds showed small fluctuations during the week,
and on Monday, October 30, was unchanged from the previous
week at 2.50 percent (Chart II).
The relative movement of different maturities of Treasury securities during the past eight days is shown in the
following table:
Average price change
Week

ended

Oct. 28

Monday,

Oct. 30

Total

(In thirty-seconds)
Notes

1 to 3 years
3 to 5 years

-3
4

+2

-1
-2

+3
+8

+14

+2

Bonds

Under 5 years to call
5 to 15 years to call
15 years and over to call

0

+6

-8

+11

+3
+

3

The mixed trend in price movements last week was due to
some extent to the adjustments made by the market following
the announcement of the new Treasury note offering. Sub-

stantial switching from rights into other Treasury notes and

intermediate bonds and guaranteed issues, which was reported
on Tuesday and Wednesday, caused a more than proportional advance in some of these issues.

Chart I shows that all maturity classes of United States
securities have now recovered a substantial portion of the de-

cline suffered as a result of the war crisis. One- to three-year

32
Secretary Morgenthau - 3

notes have recovered practically the entire ground lost since

August 19, the day before the beginning of the severe phase
of the war crisis, while the other short notes and short
bonds are at levels approximating those at the beginning of
September. Medium- and long-term bonds, however, have recovered little more than half of the declines suffered since
August 19. The longs, it should be observed, continued to
decline for nearly three weeks after the prices on short
securities had turned upward.
Weekly reporting member banks outside of New York City

reduced their Government portfolios by $23 millions during
the week. New York City banks increased their holdings of

Government securities by $79 millions, however -- up
a
and some
notes.
operreflected
to some
inations large during volume the of week bills Treasury extent shifts picking Bank

cident to the refunding of the December notes.

On Tuesday, October 24, the Executive Committee of the
Federal Reserve Open Market Committee authorized the tender-

ing of the entire amount ($105.7 millions) of the December
note held in the Federal Reserve portfolio for exchange into
the new 1 percent Treasury note. These holdings amounted to
approximately 20 percent of the entire amount outstanding.

II. United States Treasury Bills
During the statement week ended last Wednesday, the

Federal Reserve banks permitted another $12.5 millions of

their holdings of Treasury bills to run off (Chart III),

and the Treasury issued its second enlarged series of such

obligations. These operations brought the total of the
month's increases in the market supply of Treasury bills to
$168 millions. The entire amount of this increase, plus
some of the bills previously held by non-banking holders was

taken up by weekly reporting member banks, thereby reversing

the previous trend (Chart IV). Most of this addition to bill

holdings took place in New York City, as is shown in the following table:

333

Secretary Morgenthau - 4

Bank Holdings of Treasury Bills

September 27 - October 25, 1939

(In millions of dollars)
Increase in bill holdings by:
New York City banks

Banks outside of New York City
All weekly reporting member banks

156
54

210

Source of increase in bank holdings:

Increase in privately held marketable supply*

Increase in outstanding amount
Reduction in Federal Reserve bank holdings
Total

Net reduction in holdings of "others"
Total

#

100
68

168
42

210

The privately held marketable supply excludes holdings of
the Federal Reserve banks and the holdings (1f any) of
other governmental agencies.

The rate on this week's increased offering of Treasury
bills was .028 percent, as compared with .027 percent last
week, and .033 percent the week before. These rates are
practically the same as those obtaining during the two weeks

preceding the raising of the level of the bill offering from
$100 millions to $150 millions per week. A lack of relationship between changes in the weekly bill volume and in the
rate on bills is in line with the experience of the past
five years, however, and is probably to be expected in periods of large excess reserves.
III. Other Domestic Securities Markets
High-grade corporate and municipal bonds advanced

slightly last week. The Treasury average of yields on high-

grade corporate bonds declined from 3.09 percent to 3.04 percent during the week, and to 3.03 percent on Monday, October 30

334

Secretary Morgenthau - 5

(ChartII). The Dow-Jones average of yields of twenty 20-year
bonds declined from 2.96 percent to 2.93 percent. State of
New York bonds were considerably stronger than the run of
municipals, the yield on the 3's of 1971 dropping from
2.42 percent to 2.26 percent during the week (Chart V).
No corporate issues were offered publicly last week,
but it was reported that the Northwestern Electric Company
of Washington, a company located in the Bonneville Dam area,
placed $6.7 millions of 4 percent bonds with a group of four
insurance companies. Some $15 millions of municipal issues
were offered, but they were reported to have been sticky,
and a considerable portion of these issues were said to have
remained unsold at the week end.

Future activity in the new corporate issues market was
forecast by the registration with the SEC of $42 millions of
securities of the Jersey Central Power and Light Company, a
former Insull company. This is the first major loan to be
registered with the SEC since the outbreak of war.
IV. Foreign Markets
British Government securities were strong early last
week, but eased slightly at the week end. The 2-1/2 percent consols reached a high of 68-3/8 on Thursday and closed
on Monday, October 30, at 67-7/8, to yield 3.71 percent
(Chart VI). The spread between the yield on the consols and
the average yield on long-term Treasury bonds was 1.21 percent on Monday (Chart VI).

The Bank of England reduced ite discount rate from

3 percent to 2 percent on Thursday, restoring that rate to

the level maintained from June 30, 1932 until August 24,
1939, when the rate was increased to 4 percent. The press
considered the week's action to be the last important step
preliminary to the announcement of the first war loan.

Earlier in the week, the press had noted that the consistent
strength of the gilt-edge market was believed to be due in

part to buying by Government brokers preparing the way for
such a new offering.
The current improvement in the prices of consols has
extended itself to other Government issues, although not in
the same degree. The following table compares the prices on
console and other Government issues on Monday, October 30,

335

Secretary Morgenthau - 6

with the minimum prices established by the London Stock Exchange, and the prices on May 31, 1939, the high following
the spring (Czechoslovak) crisis, and August 18, the day be-

fore the beginning of the severe phase of the current crisis:
Prices of Selected British Government Issues
crisis:
Oct. 30 War
minimum :

2% Consols (Perpetual)

38% War Loan (Perpetual)

4 Funding (1960-90)
3 Funding (1959-69)

23% Defense (1944-48)

67-7/8
91-3/8
104-3/8
90-1/2

97-1/8

62

88-1/2
100-1/2
87-1/2

94-3/4

Aug.

18

65-7/8
91-5/16
105-1/4
91-3/8
98

May 31
70

96

108-1/2
94

97-5/8

Short-term money rates in London fell on the announcement
of the lower Bank Rate, call money moved from 2 percent at the
beginning of the week to 1 percent on Thursday, and six-month

commercial bills declined from 2 percent at the beginning of
the week to 1-5/8 percent on Thursday. The average yield on
Treasury bills on Friday was 1.19 percent as compared with
1.71 percent the previous week.
French Government securities were virtually unchanged

last week, but rose sharply over the week end. Perpetual
3 percent rentes stood at 68.50 on October 23, and at 68.80
on October 27. On Monday they jumped to 70.00, to yield
4.29 percent.

Canadian bank reports for September 30 revealed sharp
increases in the loans and demand deposits of the chartered
banks during the first month of war. Demand deposits rose
$58 millions to $763 millions; and current loans in Canada
increased $65 millions to $891 millions. Combined circulation of the Bank of Canada and the chartered banks increased
$36 millions to $308 millions in the same period. The magnitude of these moves may be appreciated when it is remembered
that the population of Canada is only about one-twelfth of

that of the United States. On a per capita basis the increase
in loans, for example, is equivalent to an increase of about

$780 millions here.
Attachments

Chart I
CHANGES IN THE PRICES OF U.S. SECURITIES AFTER AUG. 19. 1939
Points Plotted Represent the Difference from Aug. 19 Price of Each Maturity Class
POINTS

III

OCTOBER

16

23

NOVEMBER

30
14
21
11

1

26

CHANGE)

TITTI

POINTS

(NET CHANGE)
AUG. 19
+2

+1

NOTES, 1-3 YEARS
0
0

NOTES, 3-5 YEARS
-2

BONDS, UNDER 5 YEARS TO CALL

BONDS, 5-15 YEARS TO CALL
-5

-6

BONDS, OVER 15 YEARS TO CALL

11

19

21

26
9

2

AUGUST

16

SEPTEMBER

23

14

30

28

4

(NET

1939

SEPTEMBER

AUGUST

NOVEMBER

OCTOBER

1939

NOTE: BREAK IN LINE INDICATES CHANGE IN COMPOSITION of A MATURITY CLASS
Office of the Secretary of the Treasury
Dream . Research and Statistics

F-121-C-1

Chart I

337

COMPARATIVE YIELDS OF AVERAGE OF ALL LONG TERM U.S TREASURY

AND AVERAGE OF HIGH GRADE CORPORATE BONDS

FEB MAR APR MAY JUNE

JAN

inverse

1938

1.4

Scale

JULY

AUS

SEPT

OCT

NOV

DEC

1.4

PER CENT

JAN

FEB

MAR

1939

APR

MAY

1.4

1.0

JUNE

JULY

1939

AUG SEPT OCT NOV DEC
2.0

11

AUD

SEPT

OCT

Inverted Scale
PER CENT

WEEKLY. Saturday Quotations

Inverted,Scale
PERCENT

22

DAILY
2.2

22

24

Long Term Treasury" (N years or

W
donal
2.4

24

Long Term

V

Treasury

26

2.6

26

28

Corporates

2.8

28

30

3.0

30

3.2

32

3.4

34

3.6

3.6

3.8

3.8

32

Corporate
3.4

3.6

18

40

4.0

40

PER

CENT

PER

PER

CENT

CENT

1.00

100

1.00

80

80

80

Spread Between Long Term

Treasury and Corporate

Spread

60

60

60

40

40

40

DEC

0

-

,

1939

1938

AUG SEPT OCT NOV

AUG

.

0

JAN FEB MAR APR MAY JUNE JULY AUG SEPT OCT NOV DEC JAN FEB MAR APR MAY JUNE JULY

- Secretary Treatury

-

o
+++

to

#

1

.

=

..

-

.

1

20

20

.

20

OCT

.. o

1939

"Bread - Any indicates change - compection of Long Term Treasury average
P.SA

338

Chart III

FEDERAL RESERVE BANK HOLDINGS OF U.S. SECURITIES
1929

1930

1931

1932

1933

1939

1934

1935

1936

1937

1938

1939

1940

MAY

MAR

DOLLARS

DOLLARS

Billions

NOV

DOLLARS

Billions

Billions

MONTHLY

SEPT

JULY

WEEKLY
Wednesday Figures

28

2.8

28

Total
Total
2.4
2.4

24

Certificates and Bills

Certificates and Bills
20
2.0

20

1.6
1.6
16

Notes

1.2
1.2
1.2

8
8

Bonds
4

Bonds
0

0
0

1929

1930

1931

1932

1933

1934

1935

1936

1937

1938

1939

1940

JAN

MAR

MAY

JULY

1939

SEPT

NOV

Chart IV
DISTRIBUTION OF OWNERSHIP OF TREASURY BILLS
1937

1936

1935

1938
DOLLARS

DOLLARS

DOLLARS

III

BILLIONS

BILLIONS

BILLIONS

Call Dates

Wednesday
2.8

2.8

2.8

Held by:
ALL OTHERS
2.4

2.4

2.4

MEMBER BANKS

FEDERAL RESERVE BANKS
2.0
2.0

2.0

1.6

1.6

1.6

1.2

1.2
1.2

.8

.8

.4

.4

0
0

MAR.4

DEC.31

JUNE 30

1936

-

JUNE JULY are. SEPT. OCT. NOV. DEC.

DEC.

was.4

NOV.

JUNE 29

SEPT.28

MAR.31

1937

1938

F - 126

COMPARATIVE YIELDS OF A LONG TERM TREASURY,
N. . Y. . STATE AND N.Y. CITY BOND
1939

14

21

28

11

4

7

9

111

11111

TTLTT

TITTE

TTITT

(INVERTED)

PER CENT

TTTTT

2

TTITT

PER CENT

30

23

16

26

19

NOVEMBER

OCTOBER

SEPTEMBER

AUGUST

(INVERTED)

Daily
2.2

2.2

NEW YORK STATE 3's, 1971
2.4
2.4

2.6
2.6

21 % TREASURY BONDS, 1960 - '65

2.8

2.8

3.0
3.0

NEW YORK CITY 3's, 1979
3.2
3.2

3.4

3.4

3.6
3.6

3.8
3.8

4.0

4.0
16

SEPTEMBER

1939

7

9

2

AUGUST

30

14

OCTOBER

21

28

4

26

19

23

11

NOVEMBER

3
Office of the Secretary of the Treasury

Design of - - hade

F - 12

Chart VI

341

COMPARATIVE YIELDS OF AVERAGE OF ALL LONG TERM US TREASURY

BONDS AND U.K. 21/2% CONSOLS

1938
SEPT

JULY

NOV

JAN

1939

MAR

MAY

1940

JULY

SEPT

PER CENT

1939

NOV

OCT

inverted Scale

NOV

DEC

Inverted Scale

WEEKLY. Friday Quotations

overted Scale

PER CENT

PER CENT

Daily

22

22

22

24

24

24

24

24

26

Long Term Treasury (a

seriest

sell

date)

28

28

28

Long Term Treasury
30

30

30

12
32

3.2

34
3.4

34

36

3.6

14

U.K. 2%% Console
1.0
38

38

UK 2% % Consola40

40

40

Prices
42
42
42

PER
PER
PER

CENT

CENT

CENT
14

1.4

16

14

14
14

Differential
12

1.2

12

10

Differential

10

10

N
8

.
4
2

2
-

NOV

JAN

MAR

MAY

JULY

1939

SEPT

1940

1938

Ame change competition of Long Term Security average

0

-

MAR

JAN

.

SEPT

JULY

1

1

"

-

MAY

NOV

0

.

15

SEPT

NOV

OCT

1939

DEC

042

Present:

Mr. Welles

October 31, 1939.
3:00 p.m.

Mr. Jones

Mr. Feis

Mr. Duggan

Mr. Cotton

Mr. Cochran
Mr. White
Mr. Hanson

Mr. Schmidt
Mr. Collado
H.M.Jr:

I have something to go on. I have asked my men
for a piece of paper with some questions we would

like to ask. You (Jones) have got one. Let's

have something.
Welles:

It seems to me to be an admirable outline of the

H.M.Jr:

whole question.
Could we discuss some of these here?

Welles:

I think it would be very helpful if we start in at

H.M.Jr:

the beginning and go right down the line.
Well, the prospects of successful debt settlement
of Colombia's outstanding debt:
"1. Present status of debt settlement negotiations
between the foreign bondholders and the Colombian
Government."

We haven't got that.
Welles:

Perhaps you will allow me to talk a little on that.

I would like to ask Dr. Feis and Mr. Duggan to check

me.

Jones:

How much are the dollars?

Feis:

I beg your pardon?
What does that amount to, what is the answer?

Jones:
Duggan:

Feis:

145 million dollars, Mr. Jones.
That includes, however, I take it

343

-2Welles:

Can you break that down as to national and federal?

Feis:

That is only dollar debt, not total debt. That

includes
state, municipal and federal, and discussions of
Welles:

Can you break it down, Mr. Collado?

Collado:

Feis:

There is about 52 million dollars outstanding of
federal dollar debt, of which approximately 7 million
are held by the Colombian Treasury, making a little
over 45 million actually outstanding. In addition,
there is approximately 80 million of these state
and municipal dollar debts. On top of that, there
is approximately 7 million dollars of sterling debt
and in addition, a little over 5 more million of
sterling debt which has recently been converted into
a peso debt. It is no longer a foreign currency
obligation.
17 million dollars bank debt.

Collado:

Yes, the City Bank.

Jones:

Are all those in default?

Collado:

The City Bank is not in default. That is a shortterm debt entered into about 1930 and that is not
in default. All of the funded debts are in complete

default since about 1932 or 1933. They did issue
some funding certificates in 1934, funding the unpaid
interests through 134.
Feis:

Well, they are paying on a French funded debt arising
in connection with railway purchases and they are

paying on their internal debt.

Jones:

They are paying on the internal debt?

Feis:

Yes, anywhere up to eight or nine percent.
You mean interest or on the principal?
Interest.

Jones:

Feis:
Jones:

They are paying that much interest?

Feis:

Up to that. They are paying a French debt and they
are paying on the bankers' debt. They are paying

344

-3on a few other debts.
Jones:

You mean they pay that much interest?

Feis:

That high rate is only in connection with certain
elements in their internal debt.

Jones:

Well, does that include the French?

Feis:

The French rate is lower. I can't give you the

rate from memory.

Jones:

But I would like to emphasize, Mr. Jones, that that
French payment is in connection, really, with a
railroad debt which has been reconverted and was
not regular external funded loan. They are in default
on all of their regular external funded debt.
Does this book here include it?

H.M.Jr:

Yes.

Jones:

That is in figures?

H.M.Jr:

Yes.

Duggan:

Who is going to answer number
Jones:

Who is going to answer number two?

H.M.Jr:

Mr. Welles said he was going to talk.

Welles:

I will talk very briefly, Mr. Secretary, on point

number one.
H.M.Jr:

Yes.

Welles:

As I remember it, negotiations first started, Dr.

Feis, didn't they, about three years ago between
the Protective Council and the Colombian Government,
and the Protective Council upon two occasions
sent a representative to Bogota, in order to negotiate directly in Colombia with the Colombian
Government. On both of those occasions, the representative of the Protective Council was able to
stay only a short time and the then President of
Colombia was here in Washington yesterday. From
what he said yesterday, he did not feel that he

045

-4had sufficient time in order to undertake any
real negotiations, that all the representatives
of the Protective Council said was that they
wanted resumption, in full, as to the basis of
the negotiation, and it was impossible for him
in the short time available to convince the
representatives of the Protective Council that
he had his political and Congressional difficulties and that he couldn't possibly get Congress
to agree to it. Last year there was a change

of Government in Colombia. The present President
of Colombia came through Washington and stated to

me that one of the first things he wanted to do
was to reach an agreement providing for resumption
of payment. His point of view was that any agreement entered into by their representatives should
provide for recognition, in full, of the capital
investment and it should provide further for
scaling down of interest rates and the scaling
down of deferred interest payments.

I think it was in January, wasn't it, Dr. Feis,

that the Colombian Ambassador finally had instructions to go ahead and undertake new negotiations with the Protective Council. It was about
that time.

Feis:

Yes.

Welles:

My impression is that the proposal that he made was

for a wiping out of the deferred interest payments,
recognition of full capital value and resumption of
interest payments, beginning at two percent, going
up over a period of three years, was it?
Feis:

About.

Duggan:

Five years.

Welles:

Five years, to three percent. The Council, as I
understood, refused to consider it

Jones:

Council for the bondholders?

Welles:

and negotiations were broken down, it
Yes. flopped. I think the position of the Council, if

I understand it, is that they were not recognizing

anything but the bondholders in the way of a

346

-5settlement, that it did not provide for a starting,

resumption
four,
is it? of interest payments, at a rate at least -

Duggan:

Starting at three.

Welles:

And going up to four and a half.

Feis:

I don't think the Council has ever said it was
willing to start as low as three. They might be,
but I don't believe they are.

White:

It is four, starting at four.

Welles:

The Colombian Government has refused to negotiate
on those terms and the statement of position
Have refused to

Jones:

Welles:

negotiate on the terms proposed or rather tacitly
acquiesced to the proposals of the Council and it is
said that the Council is not a negotiator. The situation is really very unfortunate because the Colombian
President, for whom I have the highest regard, feels
that this matter must be settled and he 18 willing to
settle on any reasonable basis of the character which

is indicated. I think that is the present status in

very general and rough terms.
H.M.Jr:

Might I interject myself at this time? While I have
never had any direct contact with this Council which
I keep hearing about all the time, whether right or
wrong, I think they seem to be the irritant that has
kept us from getting anywhere, at least that is the

impression that I have. Therefore, I have made the
suggestion to the SEC that in this case they act as
a Commission to handle the banks and that they represent the American bondholders in this incident and to
assist us in arriving at a conclusion, and that we
work through the SEC rather than through this Committee.
I believe that the SEC would be very glad to do so.

Welles:

I would like, before we pass on, to express a personal

opinion, if I may.

H.M.Jr:

Yes.

Welles:

I think the difficulty is that we have considered the
Council in the light of personalities and not the

347

6-

institution itself. I think the institution itself

is a very desirable institution and one that, if it
functioned properly, would fill the long-felt want.

I am awfully afraid of any Government agency, as such,

entering into the picture when it comes to defaults
on private debts of other American Governments. I
fear that at some stage in the proceedings, the
United States Government is going to be considered
by public opinion in the rest of the continent as the

old-time Shylock and as the bill collector. What I
think is eminently desirable is that we now step in

in the way the Secretary of the Treasury has suggested,

because we have reached an impasse and the questions

have to be settled. If that is so, I hope that we

can avoid the impression on the rest of the continent
that the United States Government, itself, is going

to undertake the collection of several of these bills.
I feel that if we can agree on this particular case,
set the precedent that way, then possibly hold it up
as a yardstick, that we might then try to work out
H.M.Jr:

some way for an effective Council, even if we have
to reorganize it in some way.
Do I gather from that that if the SEC and the Commis-

sion is willing to assist us, you don't raise any

objection?
Welles:

Not a bit. I understand that their assistance would
be just the sort of work that you and Mr. Jones and
myself would have to do, that is, try and find out
what we consider a fair settlement of the whole
picture without stepping officially into the picture.

H.M.Jr:

And that some one member of the Commission would be

willing to sit with us and that they would sit in

on this the way they would on any - whatever their
status is in representing the American securities.
I am not a lawyer and I don't know just what the

legal status is, but at least in my mind I think
their creation was to look after the interests of
the American security holders. Is that about right,
John?

Hanes:

H.M.Jr:

Taking in the investors?
These are American investors who invested their
money abroad instead of at home. Is there any
difference?

348

7Hanes:

No, but I would want to examine it very carefully
before we set them up as a trading committee.

Cotton:

Under the Securities Act of 1933 it could have been
set up that way but the President never invoked
that power. They could have set up a Government
corporation to represent bondholders.

H.M.Jr:

Well, is anybody certain that they can sit in at
this - certainly they can sit in at this, because
this is informal and they can satisfy themselves
as to how far they can go.

Jones:

And then our committee could determine how far we

would want them to go. It might - Johnny's point

there about - I think it is pretty well taken.
I should like to have the benefit of their assistance and their background if this committee should
reach a decision. Certainly it would be helpful
to have the cooperation and approval of the SEC.

H.M.Jr:

Yes, and they volunteer the information that they
have all this data over there.

Jones:

But the decision would really be the decision of

H.M.Jr:

Yes.

Jones:

With their help.

H.M.Jr:

Yes.

Jones:

Keeping the decision here with the committee, 'I

H.M.Jr:

Yes.

Jones:

Is that your idea, Johnny?

Hanes:

Yes sir, that is my idea, exactly.

H.M.Jr:

Well, I will ask the SEC formally to designate somebody to talk with us, whom they would like, which

this committee.

understand.

member of the Commission.

Welles:

All right.

340

-8H.M.Jr:

I will ask which one.

Jones:

Who
that? can answer number 3? Summer, have you got

Welles:

I think that Dr. White and Mr. Collado have all

White:

Number 3?

Welles:

We haven't touched on point number 2 yet, and that,
I should say, was an impossible question to answer.

Feis:

Well, accept anything that they can get. of course,
they are getting nothing now. We can, then, depend
upon certain elements in it to criticize whatever
they get, and if they should, by any chance, accept
a settlement which then broke down after a year,
we could then expect them to criticize the whole

that data.

settlement.

Jones:

You say they would accept anything they could get?

Feis:

Yes. You have a problem always of a minority.

Jones:

How quickly could they

Feis:

And, unknown at present, they can only act as advisers.
They are in no way organized. They each have their

individual rights to accept or refuse any offer that

the Colombian Government may make. The great majority

of them will accept any offer that the Colombian

Government makes. of course, they feel themselves

in such a helpless position. You will have a
minority that will cling to its funds and continue

to demand for better terms. There is no way of
coercing them that I know of, that I have ever heard
anyone mention. The minority is always a difficult
problem and it is one problem that always has to be
borne in mind in the case of every settlement. We
have had, in the case of various negotiating settlements of certain intermediaries, to step in to pro-

tect minorities.

H.M.Jr:

Well, that doesn't answer the question, does it,
that Jones asked, "What is Colombia's capacity to
pay "?

350

-9White:

Well, the two problems there are, (1), the Federal
Government, and the other, the State and local
governments, which again resolves itself into two
subdivisions
totransfer.
what she can raise domestically
and
what sheas
can
With respect to what she can raise domestically,

I think there is little doubt that she could raise
sufficient revenue to take care of the kind of

settlement that would be accepted, though we don't
know enough about their domestic finance to be

certain of that. Yet, in this year she raised

32 million dollars revenue, as against 27 million
last year for the first eight months. That shows
an increase of 5 million and it oughtn't to be too
difficult for her to make a change which would involve two or three million dollars a year. She
already is setting aside a sum from her present
budget for payment on the debt and she has been
operating under a balanced budget and this year a

slight surplus is anticipated, so that her budget
is in good shape. Coupled with the fact that her
oil output will substantially increase next year,
which gives rise to some additional revenue, I
don't think the limiting factor on a settlement
would be her problem of getting the funds at home.
I think she can take care of that.

With respect to her ability to get foreign exchange,

that is, her ability to transfer that sum, I think

that some flexible arrangement would have to be
made. It has been suggested that they can take

care of two percent, or so, without any trouble.
Her gold production is increasing at the rate of
about 10 percent a year. They expect to increase
very greatly her oil output and though she doesn't

get all of it, she gets a substantial quantity.

Jones:

White:

Is she living within her means now?
So far as her national budget is concerned, she is.

So far as her ability to get foreign exchange is

concerned, before the last two months - and
weknow
don't
don't
who has that, possibly the State Department has it.
Before the last two months, she has been able to
meet her foreign exchange claims, exclusive of payments on these debts, and it seems quite possible

have data on the last two months I

that she will be able to pay at least two percent

and possibly something more. Now, it appears to

351

- 10 me, in view of the dependence of her success in
the exchange market on the price of coffee and

on her foreign trade, that a flexible arrangement

might be worked out which would give the foreign

bondholders any advantage on amortization payments

that would result from an improved situation. If
the exchange wasn't available, then those funds
could be blocked to be made available when her

exports reached a certain point, et cetera. I

think some sort of criterion could be developed

which would give some hope to the bondholders and
yet not be so pressing a burden on the exchange to
Colombia.

Jones:

Is it reasonable to assume that they might apply
their increased revenue from oil to this debt
settlement and the money they want to borrow?

White:

I suspect that they wouldn't want to apply it all.
They have had hopes of some additional revenue,

but they ought to provide enough to
Jones:

I didn't say they would, I said they could.

White:

She could. Then she would have to provide some

additional sums to take care of any loans that
might be made, but if the terms were sufficiently
long, that wouldn't be

Jones:

I said the new money would be

White:

That is right, I think there is an excellent chance
of working that out satisfactorily.
I think the oil revenue should be materially in-

Jones:

creased.

Welles:

Have we any estimates of the amount of oil revenue
next year? You mentioned that once before.

Hanson:

A million dollars extra.

White:

For oil?

Hanson:

Yes.

White:

About a million dollars additional.

352

- 11 Welles:

And
following
that,the
won't
it? year it will go way beyond

Hanson:

Yes.

White:

They are opening up new wells and they presumably

have enormous oil reserves left open.

H.M.Jr:

Well, is that next question - can't you raise the

White:

Yes, I also commented on that. Now, we have been
speaking about the national government. The local
government, unfortunately, we don't know anything
about their state of finance, but the foreign
exchange question which I raised included transfer
of funds by local governments, provided the local

foreign exchange

government raised it, but we just don't know. I
don't know whether the State Department has any

more information on that.
Welles:

I can give you this bit of information on that.

The ex-President told me yesterday that the majority
of the local governments, both state and municipal,
could today meet fully their debt obligations, and
that in the case of many of them they were deliberately holding back because no agreement had been

reached with the national government, at least that

is their excuse for holding back. He said it is
just on a par with the situation in the national
government.

H.M.Jr:

We are not familiar here with the status of the
sterling debt.

White:

The question there would be whether that settlement
would be involved in a dollar settlement or whether
it would raise any special problem.

Collado:

The budgetary allocation which they have made in
the current budget provides for payments on about
the same scale on the sterling debt as on the

Jones:

federal dollar debts.
That is all she has got out, sterling and dollars?

Collado:

That is all.

353

- 12 H.M.Jr:

Would it be the policy of the State Department to I don't know what the right word is - to keep the
English informed of what we are doing on this thing
or would you just disregard them on their debt.

Welles:

My own personal feeling is that we ought to go ahead
on our own problem. That is the attitude we have

H.M.Jr:
Duggan:

taken in connection with the Brazilian debt. The
British have repeatedly been trying to get themselves
into the picture because they feel that we can get
the settlement more readily with Brazil than they
can and I don't see any reason why we shouldn't
consider ourselves entirely in the picture, without
anyone else coming into it.
You wouldn't consider them at all then?
I might add, Mr. Welles, that in the recent negohave only been negotiating with us and I think it
is quite clear that they had not intended to apply
tiations with the Colombian Government, that they

it to the British.

Jones:

Welles:

I think maybe you can do the whole thing, as well
seems to me if we are going to do anything for
Colombia, that we ought to try to fix it where she
can do anything that she is obligated to do.

as part of it. Maybe we ought to tell them. It

Mr. Duggan has just reminded me that the Colombian
Government has said that she was going to negotiate

with us, only, and only after she had reached an
agreement with us, she would take it up with the
British.

Welles:

I think we ought to help this customer, and if we
are going to do that, we ought to do a full job.
I think you are quite right, but I would suggest

Jones:

That would be for your Department anyway.

Jones:

that any information come from the Colombian
Government and not from us.

I think we have got to talk to somebody that

represents Colombia as to what she can do.

354

- 13 H.M.Jr:

Have
yousix
any
indication how much you want within
the next
months?

Welles:

Doctor,
than I. you can answer that question much better

Feis:

It has never been stated in terms of dates.

H.M.Jr:

Twelve months, calendar year 1940?

Feis:

Oh, they speak of 20 million dollars, but it is
always impossible to tell whether they have just
put out a figure or - to act as a lightening rod,

or whether they mean it. Their general line they
have set for themselves is that they have got a
program of national development under way, that
that requires imports and they don't want to have
to curtail those imports and thereby affect their
program of national development. Now, if coffee
prices hold steadily, there wouldn't be any great
need for that. If coffee prices weaken, they
would need somewhat more. I don't think that any
figure that they have mentioned to you would be
of any service to you in judging what you want.
Welles:

Who is going to talk for Colombia?
Who is going to talk for Colombia?

Jones:

Who is going to come here?

Welles:

As I said in our last meeting, Mr. Jaramillo, who

Jones:

has been several times Secretary of the Treasury

for Colombia, is actually on his way or will be on
his way tomorrow or the day after. He will come
to Washington and he will be fully prepared to
discuss with you gentlemen here all of these
matters.

White:

There is a statement here that might be helpful.

This is a statement made by Mr. Feis on September
24th.

"The amount of the loan would be fixed after a
careful study of the most urgent needs of the
financial situation of the country, of the
countries under which the debt must be serviced
and the form and terms under which the funds lent
would be supplied."

355

- 14 H.M.Jr:

What are Colombia's short-term needs to meet
emergency exchange situations?

White:

We have no information which would indicate an

emergency situation, if it exists, but that is

because
or
two. we have no information in the last month

H.M.Jr:

It would be the same reply as to number 2, wouldn't

Welles:

it, wait until this gentleman gets here?
I think we would have to wait until he gets here
on point
(b). Point (a) might be taken up, pending
his
arrival.

H.M.Jr:

Anybody got any figures on that? Collado?

White:

There are figures up to two months ago. They show

that she is in as good a position, so far as the

foreign exchange - gold and foreign exchange assets are concerned, as she has been any time during the

last four years, but doubtless the last month or
two may have seen some change and I don't see how
one could answer that unless we knew. If she hasn't
suffered any loss in exchange, if the trade in the
next month or two will not be bad, she doesn't need
very much, if anything, although I can see where a
loan of approximately 5 million dollars, hedged
under the proper conditions so that she wouldn't have
to use it, might be very helpful in increasing the
confidence in the currency, but it would have to be
pretty well protected to make sure it wasn't used
for unnecessary imports.

H.M.Jr:
White:

H.M.Jr:

Have you got the figures up to September first?
Up to September first. We haven't got the September
and October figures.

Couldn't you men back there get up a list of things

that you want and send it down to our Ambassador,

to get them up to October first or as recently as

he has them?
Welles:

I think when Jaramillo gets here he will have all
that information for you.

356

- 15 Fois:

One reason the decision is so difficult is that
there are certain other interests, largely American interests, the treatment of which is more or
less discretionary. At the present time they permit
the oil exporters to keep their dollar exchange,
bringing back to the country only what they need
for local purposes. They can modify that rule if
they wish under their exchange regulations. At
the present time, they permit the miners of gold

and platinum to take out a certain amount. There
has been a Supreme Court decision which has facilitated gold and platinum mining recently. They are

permitting full remission of dividends and interest
on American investments down there. Up to perhaps

Jones:

a year ago, they were restraining those.
Full remissions?

Feis:

Full remission of interest and dividends on investments. They are paying something on their 17 million
dollar short-term banking debt. For certain periods,
they have held up on that.

Jones:

You mean a remittance?

Feis:

Yes, sir. Now, all of those, to some extent, are

White:

discretionary policies and each of them inside the
office, the Minister of Finance or the exchange control, is related to each other of them. They get
into an exchange hole and they say, Well, we won't
let any companies transmit dividends for six months
or a year. The debt element is only one of a
diverse group of elements in that situation, making
up the total exchange load or requirement.
Our information is that they have never interfered
with any of the payments on their profits and dividends, but they do amount to 15 or 20 million and
they might decide that, but up to now our informa-

tion is that they haven't done that.

Feis:

Your information is incorrect. They have now caught
but there were periods in which we had these
up, companies in and out of the State Department all of

the time. They asked us to facilitate transmission

of dividends. It is all caught up.

357

- 16 Duggan:

Gold and cotton, particularly, Dr. White,

Feis:

It is all out of the way now.

White:

They
on that short-term debt, Mr. Jones,
$100,paid
amortization.

Jones:

Last month?

White:

On the short-term debt.

Jones:

Well, there again - Summer, don't you think that -

Welles:

for instance, hasn't that got to wait on the
stabilization thing to get facts and figures?

I think on that we probably could get some infor-

mation before he gets here.

Jones:

We haven't got it now is what I am getting at.
We have got to get it.
Yes. Doesn't it seem to you that perhaps that is
one of those things that we could be helpful
enough in suggestions to them, once we know what
the situation is - I mean, not only on account of
the present emergency during the war but in view
of the future even in normal times?
I would think so. Who knows the effect of the

White:

Well, we know some things about it, not very much

Jones:

Welles:

war on them?

yet. We do know that they have temporarily, at
least, lost their German market and they used to

sell Germany about a million dollars a month and
Germany took about 15 percent of her coffee exports and a smaller proportion of her banana ex-

ports. Now, whether that loss of exchange will
be fully compensated by two other developments,
one, the increased gold production, two, the increased oil exports, remains to be seen. England

has curtailed her imports, as you know, some 30
percent and how much Colombia has lost in her
exports to England, we don't know, but her total
trade with England wasn't very important. Though
we have no trade figures, doubtless the Minister
will have some when he comes up. It doesn't appear
at the moment to be serious. Her coffee exports

358

- 17 remain good here and coffee prices have not declined

yet, so that on the whole I should say that she
should not be suffering acutely from the outbreak of
the war, but our information is inadequate.
Duggan:

Just with regard to bananas, Dr. White, we have some
recent information from the United Fruit Company to
the effect that they expect to be able to place all
of the Colombian bananas, which previously were
going to Europe, in the United States. Moreover,
on account of the recent Supreme Court decision
declaring unconstitutional a certain passage of a
recent law on expropriation, United Fruit is going
ahead to rehabilitate their banana lands there and

to increase production, so that over a period there

will be a certain compensation there on bananas.
H.M.Jr:

Mr. Duggan, is Colombia one of the countries in

Duggan:

Yes, they have it very badly there and on account
of this law that United Fruit Company thought hung
over their heads like a sort of Damocles, they
didn't go ahead to cure the disease in Colombia.
Now the law has been declared, in part, unconstitutional and I am told by United Fruit Company

which they have this banana disease?

officials that they are going to import pipe and
other spraying apparatus and go out, not only on
their own plantations, but also assisting the
local planters to cure the disease.

H.M.Jr:

Is that a disease which can be cured in one cycle
of one year or is it something that takes several
years to stamp out?

Duggan:

Mr. Secretary, from what I am told by a number of
United Fruit Company people, including their

biologist, who is quite an authority on this, it
is something that will never be cured once and
for all. The spores of this disease are carried

in the wind. Apparently they flew across, probably
from Asia, from the Orient, and now they are here
in the air and from now on it is a question of
continuous spraying for disease control.

Welles:

They are present at a very great height.

359

- 18 H.M.Jr:

They use copper sulphate, don't they?

Duggan:

Yes.

H.M.Jr:

What I am getting at, being an apple grower, in
one
it? year of covering this foliage, can they cure

Duggan:

No, sir. It depends somewhat upon the rainfall,
but they have to keep the spray, at all times, on
the leaves. From two to four weeks, every plant

has to be sprayed.
H.M.Jr:

But if United Fruit goes in there, it would mean
a lot to Colombia, wouldn't it?

Duggan:

They are already in. It is a question now of going

ahead with their spraying apparatus, spraying plants.

White:

Duggan:

There is one factor that I am merely suggesting that
would require some - probably passing consideration.
A good deal depends on her gold exports for her

ability to get exchange. Her gold constitutes so
important a proportion of her total exports. Now,
if you are thinking of long-term trends and thinking
of long-term debts, it is a little difficult to say
what the future holds with respect to curtailment
of international gold output. If any such arrangement is made, that would be additional risk. Possibly
that is minimized by the fact that her oil is increasing so rapidly that it may take up the slack.
Might I venture a brief thought on coffee, Dr. White?
The Colombian coffee, being a superior mild, has
never had difficulty in finding a market and I wonder
whether Colombia is going to have trouble placing
its coffee, as compared, let's say, with the inferior

qualities of Brazil.

White:

They claim not, but I had some things down in Brazil
that they thought maybe they might go after their
trade, but in general the opinion is that they are
in somewhat of a preferred position and their prices
are not nearly as sensitive to exchanges in the
coffee market - to drops in the demand for coffee as it would be in Brazil, but I don't know enough
about it.

360

- 19 Jones:

I think the long-term trend, that is a little

deep for us.

H.M.Jr:

How would it be if I asked, for the next move,
the SEC to notify us whether they will or won't
help us on this and who would they have sit
with us, and just as soon as I know, I will ask
them please to do it this week and try to have
another meeting this week. Is that all right?

Welles:

Yes.

Jones:

Fine.

H.M.Jr:

Shall we meet with somebody from the SEC next

to find out just how far they will go and how
far we want them to go?

Jones:

Welles:

Yes, what they can do.

I am not going to make a lengthy dissertation

upon it, only I think if we can get this present

problem solved, that Colombia offers a more favor-

able opportunity for investment by the private
American than any other republic. I think that
is contingent upon reestablishment of contacts
which can only be attained by

Jones:

That won't work very fast, though. It has got to

become stable.

H.M.Jr:

John, can you get in touch with the SEC and ask
them whether they won't please designate somebody
who can meet with us Thursday or Friday?

Hanes:

Yes.

H.M.Jr:

Thursday, if they could, and let us know.

Hanes:

Any time for it? In the afternoon?

H.M.Jr:

Thursday afternoon.

Hanes:

Yes, sir, I will do that.

H.M.Jr:

Somebody who would have the time to give to this.

361

- 20 Hanes:

It won't be one of the Commissioners.

H.M.Jr:

Oh, tell them it has got to be a Commissioner.

Hanes:

All right.

H.M.Jr:

If we can give it the time, they can. Hell, they

are not so busy. They just think they are busy.

362
COLOMBIA

Suggested Agenda for Conference at Treasury Department.
October 31. 1939.

A. Prospects of a successful debt settlement of Colombia's
outstanding debt.

1. Present status of debt settlement negotiations

between the foreign bondholders and the Colombian
Government.

2. How such are the foreign bondholders likely to
accept as a minimum?

3. What is Colombia's capacity to pay?

(a) Can she raise the funds internally (1) for

the Federal debt? (2) for the local government
debt?

(b) Can she raise the necessary foreign exchange?

4. Possibility of developing a flexible scale of
debt payments.

5. Status of sterling debt settlement.
6. will she be able to service a new debt as well
as settlement of the old?

B. Desirability of extending credits to Colombia.
1. What are Colombia's short-term needs to meet
emergency exchange situation?

(More information needed as to the acuteness and

cause of the emergency situation.
2. Long-term needs.

(a) For monetary stabilization.
(b) For economic development.

C. Colombia's foreign trade prospects.
1. Effect of war on Colombia's trade.
2. Long-term trends.
D. Prospect of Colombia attracting foreign private capital.
HDW:1rs

10/31/39

363

TREASURY DEPARTMENT
INTER OFFICE COMMUNICATION

DATE October 31, 1939

TO

Secretary Morgenthau

FROM Mr. Cochran

The foreign exchange market was again very quiet. The rate for sterling
fluctuated within a narrow range and closed at 4.00. During the afternoon, the

Bankers Trust Company, whose operations are not included in the figures below,
received orders from commercial concerns to purchase 1350,000. Of this amount
1200.000 was supplied by Japanese banks.

Sales of sterling by reporting banks in New York totaled 4375,000, from

the following sources:

L 94,000

Commercial concerns

L 281,000

Foreign banks (Europe, Far East and South America)
Total

L 375,000

Purchases of sterling amounted to 1226,000 as indicated below:
L 57,000

By commercial concerns

By foreign banks (Europe and Far East)

Total

L 169,000
L 226,000

The banks also reported that the British Control purchased sterling amount-

ing to 110,000, at the official rate of 4.02. All of the sterling sold to the

Control represented cotton bills.

The rates for the other important currencies closed as follows:
French france
Guilders
Swiss france
Belgas

.0226-7/8
.5309

.2242-1/2
.1664

10-1/4% discount

Canada

The Chinese yuan declined from yesterday's quotation of 08-13/16 to .08-3/8.
We purchased from the earmarked accounts of the banks listed below the following amounts of gold;
$ 350,000
Bank of the Republic, Colombia
175,000
National Bank of Belgium
800,000
Netherlands Bank

Total

$1,325,000

CONFIDENTIAL

- -2-

384

The Federal Reserve Bank reported to us the following shipments of gold

this country:

$ 482,000 from India, consigned to the Guaranty Trust Company of New York, for

sale to the U. S. Assay Office at New York

986,000 from Switzerland, consigned to the Federal Reserve Bank of New York,

by the National Bank of Switzerland, by order of the National Bank
of Hungary, to be held at the disposal of the BIS.

$1,468,000 Total

The National Bank of Rumania cabled to the Federal Reserve Bank of New York

stating that it intended to buy approximately $12,375,000 in gold, and it requested
the Federal to obtain from the Treasury the necessary authorization. The Federal
advised the Rumanian Bank, by cable, that the Treasury does not sell gold for future
delivery. However, the Federal Reserve Bank stated that it would be pleased to make
applications from time to time, in the behalf of the National Bank of Rumania, for
the necessary licenses for the purchase of this gold, as and when the necessary funds
are provided, and instructions are received to apply such funds in such purchases.
The Federal also stated that it assumes that the RumanianBank is acquiring the gold
for the purpose of strengthening its gold reserve, and that the Federal has reason
to believe that such applications will be promptly and favorably acted upon by the
Treasury. The Federal requested that the Rumanian Bank confirm the assumption

regarding the reason for acquiring the gold, when applications for its purchase are
to be made to the Treasury.

The Federal Reserve Bank also informed us that they had received a letter
from the Bank of Greece inquiring whether it would be possible for the Federal to
buy with dollars, which the Bank of Greece might eventually possess in New York,
gold bars to be earmarked with the Federal for account of the Bank of Greece. The
Federal, in its reply, informed the Bank of Greece that gold for earmarking or for
export can be obtained here only from the Treasury, under license issued by the

Secretary of the Treasury as set forth in Article 5. Section 34 of the Provisional

Regulations, issued under the Gold Reserve Act of 1934. The balance of the reply
was similar to that given to the National Bank of Rumania.
The Federal Reserve Bank of New York received $57,000,000 for credit to the

account of the Bank of England. An additional payment of $28,000,000, for which
the instructions are uncertain, is also believed to be for the account of the same

bank. All of these payments are being made to the Federal Reserve Bank by New York

it
banks, by order of various English banks which have been appointed by the British
Control as authorized dealers in all foreign currencies. In the circumstances,

would appear that these payments represent dollar balances surrendered to the

British Control in accordance with the Defense (Finance) Regulations.

The United States equivalent of today's London silver price was 41.80 The
price fixed by Handy and Harman for foreign silver remained unchanged at 34-3/4d.
The Treasury's price was also unchanged at 35 In New York we made one purchase
of silver amounting to 125,000 ounces. We also purchased from Canada 350,000

ounces of silver, making a total of 970,000 ounces purchased for the month of

October under our agreement to buy 1,200,000 ounces monthly.

CONFIDENTIAL

10/31/39

Mr. Foley met the Secretary at
8:15 am and gave him the attached

in preparation for the 9:30 meeting.

STATEMENT OF FACTS

In May, 1933, Twentieth Century Pictures, Inc., was incorporated.

Joseph M. Schenck and William Goetz were sole stockholders of record.

Goetz, however, acted in his capacity as trustee of the Mayer Family
Trust of which he was a minor beneficiary and of which his father-inlaw, Louis B. Mayer, was the creator.
Schenck invested $350,000 in cash in Twentieth Century and the

Mayer Family Trust also invested $350,000 in the enterprise. In return
for such investment Schenck and Goetz each received 3500 shares of pre-

ferred stock having a par value of $100 a share. The common stock
of Twentieth Century Pictures, Inc., which consisted of 100 shares was
split between Schenck and Goetz on a fifty fifty basis, each receiving
50 shares. Schenck then assigned to the Corporation a personal service
contract between Zanuck and himself which provided for a weekly salary plus

10 per cent of the net profits.

Zanuck had no stock interest in Twentieth Century Pictures, Inc., until
March, 1934, when his personal service contract was revoked and in lieu
thereof a new written contract was made under which he was permitted to buy
10 shares of the common stock owned by Schenck and 10 shares of the common

stock owned by Goetz at a nominal price of $100 a share. This gave him a

20 per cent interest in the Corporation for the nominal sum of $2,000. In

addition his salary was reduced from $4,000 to $2,000 a week and he was permitted to retain $100,000 which had been adverced to him by Schenck in

anticipation of Zanuck's 10 per cent share of the net earnings under the
original contract.

In his tax return for the year 1935 Zanuck did not report the gain

represented by his purchase of these 20 shares at a nominal price of $100 a

share. The book value attributed to the stock indicated that it was worth

at least $10,100 a share. Upon ascertaining these facts Kadis reopened

Zanuck's return for the year 1934 in September 1936 and recommended that
Zanuck and his wife be assessed an additional tax of approximately $1000000,

Zanuck and his wife holding their property as community property.

In August, 1935, e merger was effected between Twentieth Century, Inc.,
and Fox Film Corporation under e plan of reorganization which required

Twentieth Century, Inc., to transfer all of its assets to Fox Film Corporation in exchange for stock in Fox Film Corporation. The name of Fox Film
Corporation after the merger was Twentieth Century-Fox Film Corporation.

The name of the old Twentieth Century Pictures, Inc., was changed to S-G-Z
Corporation, and it was shortly afterward dissolved.

In effecting the merger two classes of stock were issued. The preferred stock represented the assets of both Corporations. The book value
of Fox assets was approximately $37,000,000. The book value of Century
assets was approximately $4,000,000. Preferred stock in the amount of
1,358,000 shares was issued, each share being valued for purposes of the

merger at about $30 a share. Consequently Fox stockholders received
1,226,000 shares of preferred stock and Century stockholders received
132,000 shares of preferred stock on the basis of their respective assets.
The common stock was treated for purposes of the reorganization the as
it had no monetary value. The old stockholders of Fox received each share
new if common stock on the basis of one-helf share of common for
of now preferred. Therefore, old shareholders of Fox received issued 613,000 to
shares of common stock. An equal amount of common stock was same treatment stock-

holders of Century. If Century stockholders had received the of the 132,000

as Fox stockholders 66,000 shares of common stock (one-half stockholders. The
shares of preferred) would have been issued to Century shares of common stock
predicated upon the, excess of 547,000
tax received liability is stockholders which was apparently issued as compensation
the personal by Century service contracts required under the Twentieth plan of reorganization Century-

for to be entered into by Zanuck and Schenck with the new

distribution 7 the

306

-2-

Fox Film Corporation.

Moreover, when received by Century the preferred stock was allocated

in accordance with the stockholdings of record, that is 40 per cent to

Schenck, 40 per cent to Goetz and 20 per cent to Zanuck, whereas the
common stock was divided on the basis of 35 per cent to Schenck, 35 per
cent to Goetz and 30 per cent to Zanuck. Although Schenck through

manipulation of the asset value per share of preferred stock tried to
make it appear that Zanuck was receiving 30 per cent of the preferred

as well as the common and Goetz and be only 35 per cent of the preferred

for the purpose of fooling Zanuck, this was not actually the fact. This
tricking of Zanuck by Schenck is of concern only to establish that their
holdings were actually as they were of record, namely 40 per cent in

Schenck, 40 per cent in Goetz and 20 per cent in Zanuck.

The actual distribution among Century stockholders of the new
preferred stock in Twentieth Century-Fox was as follows:

Preferred
chholders:
700,000 at $30

Total Shares

Zanuck

Goetz

22,000

-

11,000 (50%)

11,000 (50%)

110,000

22,000 (20%)44,000 (40%)

44,000 (40%)

132,000

22,000

Schenck

Common stockholders:

lance Preferred
tock (Basis 20-40-40)

55,000

55,000

The purported distribution among Century stockholders of new preferred

stock in Twentieth Century-Fox was as follows:
Total Shares

Zanuck

59,000

-

Schenck

Goetz

referred
kholders:

,000 at $12 per
(asset value reached
orking backward on

ck's orders)

ace Preferred stock
common stockholders:

is 30-35-35)

73,000

22,000

132,000

22,000

30,000

30,000

(30%)

25,000
55,000

(35%)

25,000 (35%)
55,000

The distribution among Century stockholders of the new common stock in
Twentieth Century-Fox was as follows:
Total Shares
613,000

Zanuck

Goetz

Schenck

183,000 (30%) 214,000 (35%) 214,000 (35%)

-3-

367

*SEC. 112. RECOGNITION OF GAIN OR LOSS

(a) GENERAL RULE. Upon the sale or exchange of property the

entire amount of the gain or loss, determined under section 111, shall
be recognized, except as hereinafter provided in this section.
"(b) EXCHANGES SOLELY IN KIND.

"(3) Stock for Stock on Reorganization No gain or loss
shall be recognized if stock or securities in a
corporation a party to a reorganization are, in
pursuance of the plan of reorganization, exchanged

solely for stock or securities in such corporation
or in another corporation a party to the reorganization.

"(4) Same. Gain of Corporation. No gain or loss shall
be recognized if a corporation a party to a reorganization exchanges property, in pursuance of

the plan of reorganization, solely for stock or
securities in another corporation a party to the
reorganization."

Construing the meaning of the word "reorganization as used in section 112
of the Revenue Act of 1928 (from which section 112 of the Internal Revenue Code
is derived) the Supreme Court in 1935 in the case of Gregory V. Helvering,

(293 U.S., 465), involving the tax liability resulting from a reorganization
which conformed to the literal terms of section 112, had this to say:
**

Putting aside, then, the question of motive in respect
of taxation altogether, and fixing the character of the proceeding
by what actually occurred, what do we find? Simply an operation
having no business or corporate purpose - a more device which put on
the form of a corporate reorganization as a disguise for concealing
its real character, and the sole object and accomplishment of which
was the consummation of a preconceived plan, not to reorgnize a
business or any part of a business, but to transfer a parcel of
corporate shares to the petitioner.
"In these circumstances, the facts speak for themselves

and are susceptible of but one interpretation. The

whole undertaking, though conducted according to the terms

of subdivision (B), was in fact an elaborate and devious
form of conveyance masquerading as a corporate reorganization,

and nothing else. The rule which excludes from consideration
the motive of tax avoidance is not pertinent to the situation, plain

because the transaction upon its face lies outside the
intent of the statute. To hold otherwise would be to
exalt artifice above reality and to deprive the statutory
provision in question of all serious purpose."

368

October 31, 1939
FOR THE SECRETARY:

I saw Bob Kintner today and told him you had

authorized me to speak for you, and that I was able to give
him information on two points: (1) The preparations last
April in conjunction with SEC and Federal Reserve to take
care of the financial markets, and (2) the preparation of
the instructions which were sent to Coast Guard and Customs

under the Neutrality Act.
He replied that there were many more incidents on

which they would like to get information, and R listed the
following:
(1) Any conversations on what was to be
done with the Tripartite Agreement.

(2) Any meetings, conversations, or preparations aimed to protect foreign exchange.
(3) Conversations and arrangements on

British and French liquidation of American
securities.
(4) The story of the French airplane purchase,

including letters and any conversations with

Bullitt.
(5) Meetings in the Treasury during the days
just before the war broke out, who was here, how
contact was kept with you and with the White House,

-2and how the news of war reached the Treasury.
(6) What arrangements were made to secure

the six special advisers and what they did while
they were in the Treasury.

(7) The story of imposition of countervailing duties on German imports.

(8) Treasury efforts to stimulate South
American trade, particularly in competition with
Germany.

I told him that I felt sure that on many of these
subjects, for example the French plane deal, you had already

said all that you could say, and that on many other subjects
there was nothing which you could appropriately make public

at this time. In the course of the conversation, Bob said
that he thought the Treasury would unavoidably appear in

a bad light if it did not "open up" because all the other
Departments were competing to appear as the one most fore-

handed. I told him that I was sure there were other motives
which far outweigh any desire of the Treasury to appear as
the hero of peace. Bob also said that because they were

getting from other sources information on your attitude in
various group meetings, he thought that in fairness to yourself you should allow them an hour at the conclusion of
their other work to check these purported attitudes against
your own recollection of these meetings.
ESD

369

370
THE SECRETARY OF THE TREASURY
WASHINGTON

10-31-39

MEMORANDUM FOR THE FILE

My attention has been called to the discussion on the floor of the
Senate on October 26, 1939 relative to the stabilization fund. As the
Congressional Record indicates, the following letters were received and
sent by me relative to this matter:
(1) Letter of October 19, 1939 from Senator Wagner.
(2) Letter of October 19, 1939 to Senator Wagner.
(3) Letter of October 17, 1939 from Senator Vandenberg.
(4) Letter of October 24, 1939 to Senator Vardenberg.
(5) Letter of October 19, 1939 to Senator Barkley. (not in Cong. Rec.)
In addition there was left with Senator Barkley on October 23, 1939 by
Mr. Foley, a memorandum relative to this matter, and there was left with

Senator Wagner on October 25, 1939 by Messrs. Foley and White, a memorandum
dated October 24, 1939. Copies of such memoranda and letters are attached

hereto. I had no telephone conversations with either Senator Wagner or
Senator Barkley relative to this matter. I had several telephone conversations with Senator Vandenberg, transcripts of which are attached hereto.
I have not stated, nor have I authorized anyone else to state, that the
stabilization fund would not purchase any currencies of belligerents
during the existence of the war. Messrs. Foley and White, with my approval,
indicated to Senators Wagner and Barkley that I had no present intention of
purchasing currencies of belligerent countries, but that I thought that
it was inadvisable to tie my hands by putting any limiting provision in
the statute. My views with respect to the use of the stabilization fund
in time of war are those which I have expressed in the letters and memoranda
referred to above, and as indicated herein, and in the hearings in connection

with the bill to extend the stabilization fund.

Messrs. Foley and White had several conversations ith Senator Nagner

and Barkley relative to this matter, but at no time were any views expressed
in any way contrary to my views as above indicated.

371

MEMORANDUM FOR THE FILE

My attention has been called to the discussion on the floor of the
Senate on October 26, 1939 relative to the stabilization fund. As the
Congressional Record indicates, the following letters were received and

sent by me relative to this matter:

(1) Letter f October 19, 1939 from Senator Wagner.
(2) Letter of October 19, 1939 to Senator Wagner.
(3) Letter of October 17, 1939 from Senator Vandenberg.
(4) Letter of October 24, 1939 to Senator Vandenberg.
(5) Letter of October 19, 1939 to Senator Barkley. (not in Cong.Rec.)
In addition there was left with Senator Barkley on October 23, 1939 by
Mr. Folay, a memorandum relative to this matter, and there was left with

Senator Wagner on October 25, 1939 by Messrs. Foley and White, a menorandum
dated October 24, 1939. Copies of such memoranda and letters are attached

hereto. I had no telephone conversations with either Senator Wagner or
Senator Barkley relative to this matter. I had several telephone conversations with Senator Vandenberg, transcripts of which are attached hereto.
I have not stated, nor have I authorised anyone else to state, that the
stabilisation fund would not purchase any currencies of belligerents
during the existence of the war. Measrs. Folay and White, with my approval,
indicated to Senators Hagner and Barkley that I had no present intention of
purchasing currencies of belligerent countries, but that I thought that
it was inadvisable to tie my hands by putting any limiting provision in
the statute. My views with respect to the use of the stabilisation fund
in time of war are those which I have expressed in the letters and memoranda
referred to above, and as indicated herein, and in the hearings in connection

with the bill to extend the stabilization fund.

Messrs. Folay and White had several conversations with Senator Nagner

and Barkley relative to this matter, but at no time were any views expressed
in any way contrary to my views as above indicated.

JUP:EBsneu

10/30/39

Eirth HOW

372

CONGRESSIONAL RECORD

October 26, 1939
pages 1495-97

Mr. THOMAS of Utah. I thank the Senator from-Ohler
Mr. TAFT. Mr. President, I offer the amendment which
I send to the desk
The PRESIDING OFFICER. The amendment offered by
the Senator from Ohio to the amendment reported by the
committee will be stated.
The LEGISLATIVE CLERK. On page 22, after line 21, it is

proposed to insert the following:
(d) Subsection (a) of section 10 of the Gold Reserve Act of

1934. as amended is amended by inserting therein, immediately
after the first sentence thereof, the following new sentence: "The

Secretary of the Treasury shall not at any time hold currency.

or bills of exchange payable in the currency. of any state named
in any currently effective proclamation issued under the authority

of section 1 (a) of the Neutrality Act of 1939. for which be has

expended more than $20,000,000 from the stabilization fund."

Mr. TAFT. Mr. President, under the Stabilization Fund
Act, the President has available $2,000,000,000 in gold for the

purpose of stabilizing exchange. It will be entirely possible,
entirely legal, so far as I can see, if he should wish to do sol
for him to spend the entire $2,000,000,000 in maintaining the

pound, say. at $4.20 or any other figure at which he might
wish to stabilize it. If he should do that. then, of course, the

373

2.

only was the operation could have any substantial effect in
Accomplishing that purpose would be to buy pounds with

the stabilization fund. That would be a proper exchange
operation and it could be done very easily within the powers

granted to the Secretary of the Treasury in connection with
the stabilization fund: but the result would be that when that
operation was completed there might be in the fund $2,000.-

I that If he should think of doing so he would like to be guided
think we should give the guidance to him.

Mr. ADAMS. Mr. President
Mr. TAFT. I yield to the Senator from Colorado.

Mr. ADAMS The impression that I received I will to
the Senator, from Secretary Morgenthau when he was say asked

000,000 worth of pounds. If England should lose the war, or

why such a large stabilization fund was needed was not that
they intended to use it. but because of the destrability of hav-

$2,000,000. much less the $2,000,000,000 expended for that

ing the capacity, which would enable the Treasury to do
certain things if necessary. If we restrict their capacity to

even if she should not, those pounds might not be worth

purpose. The French Government lost large sums of money

when they attempted to support the pound back in the financial crisis of 1934, as I recall.

$20,000,000, then we would utterly defeat the purpose of the

stabilization fund, because there may be those who seek to
unstabilize deliberately or conditions which result in unstabili-

Mr. ADAMS Mr. President, will the Senator yield for an

zation may continue regardless of anything and it might be

The PRESIDING OFFICER Does the Senator from Ohio

impossible to meet such a situation with a mere $20,000,000.
I was impressed by the fact presented by the Secretary of the
Treasury that it was the power to do these things with a vast

inquiry?

yield to the Senator from Colorado?

Mr. TAFT. Certainly
Mr. ADAMS I am wondering If the Senator is accurate
in saying that the stabilization fund was created for the
purpose of stabilizing the pound or any other foreign currency. My impression is that it was created to stabilize the
American dollar, and that, so far as investments were made
in foreign currency, they were made only insofar as might
be necessary to stabilize the American dollar. There are
some 50 different foreign currencies, and it was not the purpose of the stabilization fund to reach out and endeavor to
stabilize the currencies of individual countries.

Mr. TAFT Perhaps not: yet the pound determines the
currencies of many countries throughout the world, and
when the pound is stabilized at $4.20 the dollar is stabilized

at a certain number of shillings in the pound. The two

operations are simultaneous: there is no difference between

them. I think it may fairly be said that it is wholly within

the legal authority granted to the Secretary of the Treasury

in connection with the stabilization fund that that sum be
sed for the very purpose of maintaining the pound so as
protect the dollar in export transactions throughout the
world. I think the Secretary of the Treasury so admits
At least when he was before the Banking and Currency
Committee last year I asked him this question:
Suppose there is a foreign war and suppose you go out and do

stabilization fund which made people conscious of the purpose of this Government to stabilize the dollar and fend off

any hostile movement

Mr. TAFT. It seems to me the Senator answers his own
argument, because if we are going to threaten to buy pounds

in order to maintain the pound, we will have to carry out
that threat sooner or later, and use a great deal of the fund
for that purpose. It seems obvious, therefore, that we

should make it clear that we do not intend this fund to be so

used

I wish to point out that this is a cash-and-carry measure,
intended to prevent credit. But the operation suggested here

is not covered by the prohibition against credit. The stabilization fund does not loan any money to England and France,
but the operation is just as effective as a loan, because if the
fund buys pounds or francs it pays dollars for them. and then

the English or the French Governments have dollars with
which they may pay for purchases in this country, and we
have pounds which may or may not be good, according to
what the credit of the English Government is at the end of
the war

Mr. BARKLEY Mr. President will the Senator yield?
Mr. TAFT. I yield
Mr. BARKLEY. Of course, the Senator realizes that under
the terms of the law itself the stabilization fund is not created

what you can to buy two billion dollars worth of pounds: Isn't

for the purpose of maintaining the value of any other currency but of stabilizing the dollar. Certainly foreign currencies are linked with the dollar, but the price of foreign
currencies will determine the amount of stabilization of the

eign country before we would use the stabilization fund or any
money in the Treasury to assist any country in prosecuting that
war. I would come up before the proper committee and ask for
guidance

dollar.

the effect of that to give England the power to buy $2,000,000,000
worth provision of goods in this country, under the cash-and-carry
Secretary MORGENTHAU Senator, If there is a war in any for-

The Secretary repeated that statement in his letter to
the Senator from Michigan (Mr. VANDENBERG), read to the

Senate yesterday. As the Congress will probably soon ad-

journ, there may be no committee of Congress here. The

Mr. TAFT. Not only that, but the very purpose of the
stabilization fund was to keep the pound from depreciating

so that we would not be at a disadvantage in trading in South
America, because the British could sell cheaper than we could

sell. That is the very purpose of the fund. Therefore, if it
is used for that very purpose and used effectively we are
going. gradually, to accumulate pounds under present con-

Secretary is asking for guidance, and I am proposing that we

ditions until the amount is considerable

is not to be used for that purpose.

guilders or any other foreign currency is only incidental to

give it to him by stating frankly that the stabilization fund
Mr. SCHWELLENBACH. Mr. President
The PRESIDING OFFICER. Does the Senator from Ohio

yield to the Senator from Washington?

Mr. TAFT. I yield.
Mr. SCHWELLENBACH. May I ask the Senator how he
arrives at the figure $20,000,000? Is it because of the experience in the operation of the stabilization fund in the past?
Mr. TAFT, I understand $20,000,000 would enable the
Treasury to carry on day-to-day transactions which have been

carried on up to this time. Ordinarily the fund does not buy
pounds except for 1 day. The Secretary of the Treasury has

from time to time bought pounds with the promise of the
British Government that it would redeem those pounds in
on the next day. Consequently the actual sum that has
been laid out at any one time under the procedure that has
been followed in the past does not exceed $20,000,000. As a

matter of fact, the Secretary says he has no pounds at the
Present time and does not intend to buy any; and he says

Mr. BARKLEY The purchase of pounds or francs or

the purpose of the law to maintain the stability of the

American dollar and thereby not place our own country at

a disadvantage with respect to cheap foreign currencies
Since the Senator has read the answer of the Secretary of
the Treasury in which he said that if he contemplated the
purchase of any currencies in order to assist any country
at war he would come back here for guidance. I think that
another answer of the Secretary ought to be put into the
RECORD After he said he would come back here for guid-

ance the Senator from Ohio said:
I have no doubt you would. perhaps But. nevertheless, the
authority granted in this extension would give you power to do
that, would it not If you did choose to do so
Secretary MORGENTHAU To do what?

Senator TAFT. What I suggested: To buy pounds, and, in effect.
create an English credit here of $2,000,000,000; and we would wake

up. in the end, and find ourselves with $2,000,000,000 worth of

pounds that were worth nothing? I am not asking whether you
would do it My question is whether that is not legally possible

Isn't that legally possible?

3.

74

Registrary MOSCENTHAU Well, If I lost all sense or reason in the

performance of my duty, I might do a lot of things.

which you would not do under the rule of common sense.

Mr. TAFT. I yield to the Senator from Delaware
BARKLEY.
Mr. President, may I ask a question of
theMr.
Senator
from Ohio?

It is in that connection that the Secretary announced
that if he had any such purpose in mind he would come

The Senator
Delaware.

Senator TAFT. In other words, is is legally possible?
Secretary MOSCENTHAU. Well. a lot of things are legally possible

to Congress and obtain authority for it.

While I am on my feet I may say that the Secretary of

the Treasury has not bought a pound since the war started;

he has not bought a franc since the war started; and he
now holds only $2,980 worth of pounds and $82 worth of
francs,
which he bought long before the beginning of the
war.
Mr. TAFT. Mr. President, just as an example of how the
Secretary may have changed his views, I should like to read
a United Press dispatch of October 19 which discusses how
the stabilization fund may now be used, or the officials
think it may be used, in South America:
Officials said that the fund's machinery could perform useful
functions in the administration's plans for enlarging trade with
Latin America. The fund could be used, officials said, in developing exchange arrangements similar to those made with Breath.

Those were made by the Export-Import Bank. They

were not made by any stabilization fund.

Gold could be made available to Latin-American countries to

enable them to stabilize their exchange.

According to this United Press dispatch last week, that
is what the officials are saying they may do now with the
stabilization fund: not stabilize the dollar, but give gold to
South American countries to enable them to stabilize their
exchange. I say that if ideas of that kind are abroad as
to the powers under this fund, we ought to make it perfectly clear that we are not going to finance a European
war through the use of the stabilization fund.
Mr. BARKLEY. Mr. President, will the Senator yield at
that point for an additional brief statement?
Mr. TAFT. Yes.
Mr. BARKLEY. I wish to say that I am authorized by
the Secretary of the Treasury to say that the position he
took in the testimony in March is the position he now takes,
and he desires to reiterate that position; that he has no intention of using the stabilization fund for the purpose of enabling

belligerent countries to buy war supplies in this country or
anywhere else, and that he now holds no currencies at all
that have been bought since the war began. Certainly, it
seems to me that in view of the very conservative administration of the stabilization fund by the Secretary of the
Treasury we have no warrant for now amending this particular Neutrality Act by undertaking to legislate on the use
of the stabilization fund, which is entirely a different proposition. In the exigencies and uncertainties of our own commerce, a $20,000,000 limit, as fixed in the amendment of the

Senator, might handicap the Secretary of the Treasury in
using the stabilization fund in any effective way to stabilize
the American dollar and thereby put it on an equality with

the currencies of the world.

Mr. TAFT. The Secretary says he will not do it, but be

apparently thinks be has power to do it. He says that before

he does it he will come to a committee of Congress for

guidance.

It seems to me this amendment is directly material to the
very purpose of the joint resolution. It provides, in effect,
that the Government itself shall not make what amounts to
a loan to England and France, which is within the broad
purpose of the joint resolution but is not covered by its specific provisions. The law is doubtful. The operations of the
stabilization fund are secret, and nobody knows whether or
not it is used until something like 6 months later, when a
report has to be made. I think we can clear up the Secretary's mind: I think we can clear up a good deal of misappre-

(pension in this country, a number of rumors that are likely
to arise that the fund is being used, by adopting this amend-

ment now and making it perfectly definite that the fund is
to be used solely for exchange operations.
NOT TOWNSEND. Mr. President

The PRESIDING OFFICER (Mr. HATCH in the chair).

from Ohio has yielded to the Senator from

Mr. BARKLEY. In the Senator's time I think the Senator from Ohio has taken his seat let me say that I wonder
what he means by clearing up the Secretary's mind by an

amendment The Secretary's mind does not seem to be muddied on the subject. He is not asking that his mind be cleared

up. It seems to me a rather gratuitous matter on our part
to attempt to clear up a mind that is not at all addled or

muddy on the subject, but seems to be very clear.

Mr. TAFT. After reading this testimony. my conclusive
would be that the Secretary's mind was very muddled and
furthermore that he is so stating. and is asking for guidance

375
countries of belligerent and is holding only trifing amounts of foreign currencial

of the war. countries which were acquired long before the outbreak
Sincerely,

CONGRESSIONAL RECORD

H. MORGENTHAU, Jr. Secretary

October 26, 1939

Mr. WAGNER Mr. President, I add just a word to that
statement. Not only are they not purchasing any current
cles of belligerents now. but during the existence of the
war
they will
nottopurchase
any, and the Secretary has
authorized
me so
state.

Pages 1500-2

yield? Mr. VANDENBERG Mr. President, will the Senator

Mr. WAGNER I yield.
Mr. VANDENBERG I wish to ask the Senator a further question. Will the Senator tell me how the stabilization fund is used to stabilize the exchange value of the
dollar, which is the Secretary's language. if it is not used

the in connection with foreign currencies? How can the value of

change? dollar be stabilized without dealing in foreign ex-

Mr. WAGNER The purpose in dealing in exchange is,
of course, to stabilize the dollar. But the suggestion is
preposterous that the Secretary of the Treasury. who has
made such a remarkable record, and has acted with such

fidelity and ability. would deliberately use $2,000,000,000 of

American money in an unneutral manner to bolster the

currency of a foreign government so that It may purchase

goods here, with perhaps a very serious loss to his own

country

Mr. WAGNER They do not need a dollar of gold to pay
for the products they purchase here. They have available
much more than will be needed for any of their purchases.
The gold problem is not involved in the question at all.
That is another point.
When the discussion first arose as to the stabilization
fund, I wrote a letter to the Secretary of the Treasury and
he replied I shall ask that my letter and the Secretary's
answer be read, and then I shall conclude with a few more

words.

The PRESIDING OFFICER. Without objection. the

clerk will read, as requested.

The legislative clerk read as follows:

Mr. VANDENBERG I wanted to ask the Senator one
question at that point, inasmuch as my other question
seemed to have been responsible for this explosion.
Mr. WAGNER I did not intend it as an explosion. I
wanted to be emphatic about it, because I have great
confidence in the Secretary. and I know of his integrity

as well as his ability.

Mr. VANDENBERG I share the Senator's confidence.
Mr. WAGNER I know there is no intention to suggest,

or any implied suggestion that he is not honest.
Mr. VANDENBERG None.

Mr. WAGNER But yet such an interpretation could

be placed upon the amendment
October 19, 1939

The Honorable the SECRETARY OF THE TREASURY

Washington, D.C.

MY DEAR Ms SECRETARY It appears from recent discussions on the

Senate floor that some of the Members are fearful that the stabilization fund is being used to support the currencies of England and
France during this period of war in Europe.

I know that you publish quarterly information which reveals the

operations of the stabilization fund. as I understand
it,
will not be
information available
in the concerning
operations
but, September
the In
ordinary
course of
events during
until January
1. 1940.
view of the questions which are being raised at the present time as

to
of
themestabilization
I appreciate
would
it If
the
would
operations
you
advise
as chairman fund.
of the Senate
on
ing
whether the
currencies and Currency of stabilization fund Committee is acquiring Bank- the
England and France or whether the fund is supporting

these currencies

I appreciate the reasons why the Treasury would hesitate to make

public any information concerning the scope of the activities of the
fund without the lapse of an adequate period of time. but under the
circumstances I hope that you will be able to make an exception in
this instance

Mr. VANDENBERG Not upon the question which asked
the Senator. which produced the explosion.

Mr. WAGNER Not at all.
Mr. VANDENBERG The question I asked is: How can

the exchange value of the dollar be stabilized without deal-

ing in exchange?

Mr. WAGNER It cannot.
Mr. VANDENBERG It cannot be done. 80 the stabiliza-

tion fund then is sterile for the length of the war.

Mr. WAGNER So far as the belligerent countries are

concerned, I take it. It is.

Mr. VANDENBERG Then, what is the objection to saying

so in the statute?

Mr. WAGNER There are other countries to deal with.

There are more than belligerent countries whose currencies
are involved. The stabilization fund is not used solely to buy
British pounds.

Mr. VANDENBERG I call the attention of the Senator

that the pending amendment applies only to the currencies of

Very sincerely yours

belligerents.
THE SECRETARY OF THE TREASURY.

Washington, October 19, 1939.
Hon ROBERT F. WAGNER

Chairman of the Senate Committee on Banking and Currency

United States Senate, shington D. o

MY DEAR SENATOR: I have your letter of October 19. in which you
refer to recent discussions on the floor of the Senate with reference

to the operations of the stabilization fund.

or course, as the Treasury Department has at all times made

clear, the stabilization fund has never been used to support the our-

rencies of any foreign country. but has been used solely for the
express purpose set out in the statute pursuant to which 18 was
created namely, to stabilize the exchange value of the dollar. In

connection with the carrying out of such purpose is has been neces-

fund for to

ary. as was explained at the hearings last spring on the bill to

extend the stabilization powers the fund acquire foreign

currencies from time to time. I should like to state, however, that
the stabilization fund is not acquiring any currencies of belligerent

Mr. WAGNER That is true.
Mr. VANDENBERG Then, why not put it in, If that is the

way it is going to work?

Mr. WAGNER. Because I say that the suggestion itself is
an implication that the Secretary of the Treasury is going to
fall to perform his duty with fidelity.
Mr. TAFT. Mr. President, will the Senator yield?

Mr. WAGNER. I wish to finish what I have to say, and
then I will yield. I just wish to say to the Senate that the
whole matter was before the Committee on Banking and
Currency. Senators will recall the rumors which were spreadng-even some Senators made the suggestions upon the floor

and elsewhere that there was something mysterious about
the operation of the stabilization fund; that It might

2.

becaused for purposes, even domestic purposes, other than its
exclusive purpose to stabilize the exchange value of the Amer-

lean dollar. So we had a hearing upon this whole matter
before the Committee on Banking and Currency. The Secretary care before the committee with a complete audit of
the entire fund, of every operation in detail. He was questioned, particularly by the Senator from Delaware (Mr.
TOWNSEND and the Senator from Ohio (Mr. TAFT] in a
most scrutinizing and able manner. The Secretary not only
acquitted himself well but showed how every dollar was expended. All these rumors, of course, went right out of the
window, because not only had herbeen faithful to his trust
but he was so faithful that he actually made money for the
Government from the operation.
Mr. MALONEY. Mr. President, will the Senator yield?
Mr. WAGNER. I yield.
Mr. MALONEY. I was very much impressed with the observation made by the Senator from Colorado when he said
that the $20,000,000 limitation would deny to the Secretary

of the Treasury and the United States the power of a
the word "threat" is mine- the event of an
assault on the American dollar. For that reason it seemed to

me that it would be inadvisable to adopt the amendment
offered by the Senator from Ohio. But it now seems to me,
Mr. President-an It seems also important that I make this
observation-ti the Senator from New York, intentionally
or otherwise, has tied the hands of the Secretary of the
Treasury and completely destroyed the contention of the Sen-

ator from Colorado by pointing out and saying that he does

it with the authority of the Secretary of the Treasury. that
no money of the stabilization fund will be used for the purchase of foreign currency during the war. If that statement
is permitted to stand, I do not see how anybody can oppose

.76
Secretary of the Treasury. The Secretary might not now
intend to make such purchases, but If I correctly understood
the Senator from New York he said that the Secretary would

not do it. I think there is considerable difference in the

language.

Mr. WAGNER If I so stated, I thank the Senator for

calling my attention to it. It was certainly too broad a statement of the Secretary's views. However there is no present
intention of buying any currencies of belligerents Of course,
we cannot tell what problems may arise, but there is no such

intention at the present time. As a matter of fact, I may

say that at the present time the Secretary of the Treasury
has as part of the stabilization fund only 745 pounds sterling.

or approximately $2,980. and 3,652 French francs, representing about $82.53.

Mr. MALONEY. Mr. President will the Senator yield to
me again so that I may complete an expression of my view?

Mr. WAGNER. I yield.

Mr. MALONEY I am in sympathy with what I think are
the desires of the Senator from New York, but I do not think

it is paradoxical to say that I am also in sympathy with the
statement just made by the Senator from Michigan (Mr.
VANDENBERG) I think it would be despicable for the Secretary

of the Treasury or anyone else to use any part of the stabilization fund. under the circumstances now existing and par-

ticularly in the light of the pending legislation. to furnish
credits to belligerent nations. I wish to add to that statement, however, that I do not believe that the Secretary of
the Treasury would do such a thing under any circumstances.

Mr. WAGNER That is it exactly. The Secretary was

asked that very question

Mr. SHIPSTEAD Mr. President, will the Senator yield?
Mr. WAGNER I was trying to finish my thought
The PRESIDING OFFICER The Senator declines to yield

the amendment offered by the Senator from Ohio, and I hope

at the moment

upon his statement

Mr. WAGNER The Secretary was asked that very question by the Senator from Ohio (Mr. TAFT). I do not recall

that the Senator from New York will at least reflect further

Mr. WAGNER I thank the Senator. The Secretary of
Treasury said that there was no present intention of

purchasing any of the currencies of the belligerent countries.
But, as was very well said, even by the Senator from Ohio,

we are not in session at all times. I do not know what
critical situation may arise, and I can only stick to the
question of his present intention. That is what I had in
mind when I made the statement. I do not contradict a
single word of what the Senator from Colorado has so ably
stated The Secretary of the Treasury himself characterized

this fund as much of a national defense measure as an

army and a navy.

the exact language of the question. The Senator from Ohig

will recall It very well. The Secretary was asked whether

would be possible to use the stabilization fund for the purpos
of purchasing $2,000,000,000 worth of English pounds, so

to provide sufficient credits or moneys to a particular bel

ligerent in case of war, that particular belligerent to use the

fund for the purchase of armaments and other materials.
The Secretary questioned whether he would have that authority. However, he said, in effect, "I have common sense.

I would not think of doing anything of that kind without
first coming to Congress for guidance."

Mr. MALONEY There is no question that he has the

Mr. MALONEY I respectfully suggest to the senior Senator from New York that he examine the RECORD. It may
have been a slip of the tongue, or a mistake on my part.
Perhaps I did not hear correctly; but if I did the Senator
from New York said be was authorized by the Secretary of
the Treasury to state that the stabilization fund would not

right. or rather that it would be legal.

be used for that purpose.

be legal. but not otherwise.

Mr. WAGNER Certainly the fund would not be used for
the purpose suggested by the Senator from Ohio. That is
the Secretary of the Treasury would not deliberately purchase foreign currencies for the purpose of providing credit
to any of the belligerents
Mr. MALONEY. T am sure of that. I am in sympathy
with what I think is the viewpoint of the Senator from New
York: but I think his language shackles the Secretary of
the Treasury.

Mr. WAGNER My assertion might have been too broad;
if so, it was unintentional
Mr. VANDENBERG Mr. President, I should like to renew
the language, because the Secretary said to me yesterday in
words of one syllable that he did not propose to use this fund
to buy foreign currencies from belligerent nations.
Mr. MALONEY. Mr. President, will the Senator yield
further?

Mr. WAGNER I yield.
Mr. MALONEY. That language is quite different from the
language which the Senator from New York credited to the

Mr. WAGNER. I disagree with the Senator. I think it

would not be legal unless it were done for the purpose of
stabilizing the American dollar.
Mr. MALONEY. I said it would be legal.

Mr. WAGNER. If it were done for that purpose, it would

Mr. WHEELER Mr. President, will the Senator yield

to me?

Mr. WAGNER I yield.

Mr. WHEELER. Suppose the British pound dropped from

$4 to $2.50. Then the Secretary could say he wanted to
buy British pounds in order to stabilize the American dollar
because such a drop would unstabilize it. First of all, let me

say that I am extremely glad that this question came up
because I think it has clarified the situation in the minds of
many Senators. However, I do not conceive that in the
situation which exists at the present time, with a war in
progress, and with the currency of any belligerent likely to
drop, that we ought to buy British pounds and French franes
in order to try to bring them up.

Mr. WAGNER The Senator knows very well that the

Secretary would not do such a thing.

Mr. WHEELER. I do not believe he would. However,

I am delighted that the question came up because various
rumors have been circulated. I think the Secretary would

3.

have the power to do so under the law. Morally I do not
think he should do it, and I do not think he would.

Mr. WAGNER. I have grave doubt whether be would

have the power.

Mr. BARKLEY. Mr. President, will the Senator yield?

Mr. WAGNER. I yield.

Mr. BARKLEY. During the war the Secretary of the

Treasury might purchase some pounds or france for the
purpose of stabilizing the American dollar. That would not
automatically or necessarily result in the use of those
pounds or francs to give Britain or France purchasing power
in the United States to buy war materials.
Mr. WAGNER. That is correct.
Mr. WHEELER But If the pound should drop to $2.50,
and the Treasury should buy pounds to bring it up to $5.
the effect, of course, would be twofold

Mr. BARKLEY The effect would not necessarily be to
provide money with which to purchase material to send
to England.

Mr. WHEELER. If the pound should drop to $2.50. and
the Treasury bought it at $4 in order to stabilize it at that
point, as a matter of fact the Treasury would be making a
gift to England, and also providing the English with gold
which they could use to purchase American goods. The
British would not use the stabilization fund. They would
use the gold, if they could obtain it, to purchase goods from
America. So, in effect, if that were done we would be giving them a loan. I am delighted to hear the distinguished
Senator from New York say that there is no intention upon
the part of the Secretary to do so. As I say. I cannot concelve of his attempting to do so.
SEVERAL SENATORS. Votel Vote!

Mr. SHIPSTEAD. Mr. President, will the Senator yield?

Mr. WAGNER I yield.
Mr. SHIPSTEAD If It is not the intention of the Secretary of the Treasury to buy the currencies of belligerent
nations during the war, then I do not see why this amendment should be necessary. However, If he should start to
stabilize the dollar by buying British pounds or French
francs, he might have to buy so much that he would endanger the fund. Then, in my opinion, this amendment
would be necessary.

Mr. WAGNER An effort was made in the committeeand, as I recall, upon the floor by the Senator from Ohio
to reduce the stabilization fund to $200,000,000 in place of
$2,000,000,000. When that question came before the committee for consideration, the Secretary of the Treasury declared that It was very important to have a large stabilization fund, for the same reason we have a large Navy. merely
as notice to the world that other nations must not fool with
our currency or try a competitive devaluation procedure,
because we have a fund to meet the situation. That is the
only purpose of the fund.
Mr. TAFT. Mr. President, the whole purpose of the stabilization fund was considered by the Banking and Currency
Committee last year. When It finally came down to the
was: question, "We "Why are afraid do you of the want competitive $2,000,000,000?" devaluation the answer of the

pound throughout the world. which might result in our being

underbid by the English and by every other country on a
sterling basis throughout the world." That is the only purpose of having $2,000,000,000 in the stabilization fund. I

do not agree with the Senator from New York. I think

the Secretary would be perfectly justified in using the fund
for that purpose, because he thinks and so stated- that If
we permit the pound to depreciate it means a reduction in
the price of cotton and the price of wheat and other prices
in this country, in a way which will unfavorably affect our
economy. The Secretary thinks that condition may exist.
It is even more likely to occur in the present circumstances
than when he testified. I was almost prepared to withdraw
the amendment when the Senator stated that the Secretary

authorized him to promise that he would not buy any

pounderor france during the war period. He has now_modies

377
fied that statement, and he says It is not the Intention of

the Secretary to do so. Am I correct in that statement?
I think the record will show that there is a substantial
difference between the two statements.

Mr. WAGNER I know the Senator wants to be fair. We
cannot look into what may happen in the future. At the
present time there is no intention to buy any currencies of
any belligerents. That is all we can say at the present time.

One of the main reasons was given by the Senator from
Montana (Mr. WHEELER] With war and chaos existing. it
would be very undestrable and unprofitable today to purchase pounds when the pound is dropping. However, does

not the Senator think we ought to leave the stabilization
fund intact, just as we leave our Navy intact? We have no
present intention of going to war; but we would not scrap
our Navy for that reason.

Mr. TAFT. Mr. President, the pending measure is a
cash-and-carry proposal. It lays down the principle in
legislation-n in the discretion of the Secretary of the
Treasury-the we do not propose in any way to advance
credit to belligerent nations to buy the goods they would like

to buy in this country. It ought not to be left in anybody's
discretion. We are laying down that policy. The Secretary
said that if there were a war in any foreign country before

he used the stabilization fund he would come to Congress
and ask the proper committee for guidance. In other words,

he has said, in effect, the Banking and Currency Committee and I will decide whether or not to use the stabilization fund.

What the amendment seeks to do is to have Congress lay

down a perfectly definite rule that he shall not do what he
says he does not intend to do, and what the Senator from
New York (Mr. WAGNER] is almost- but not quite- willing
to promise he will not do. It seems to me that we ought
to put the amendment in the law. and definitely lay down
a policy before all the peoples of the world that this country

does not propose, directly or indirectly, to finance any be

Migerent in the present war.

UNITED STATES SENATE

Washington, D.C.

October 19, 1939

The Honorable

The Secretary of the Treasury
Washington, D. C.

My dear Mr. Secretary:
It appears from recent discussions on the Senate

floor that some of the members are fearful that the Stabilization
Fund is being used to support the currencies of England and France

during this period of war in Europe.

I know that you publish quarterly information which
reveals the operations of the Stabilization Fund, but as I understand it, the information concerning operations during September

will not be available in the ordinary course of events until
January 1, 1940. In view of the questions which are being raised
at the present time as to the operations of the Stabilization Fund,
I would appreciate it if you would advise me as Chairman of the

Senate Committee on Banking and Currency whether the Stabilization
Fund is acquiring the currencies of England and France or whether

the Fund is supporting these currencies.

I appreciate the reasons why the Treasury would

hesitate to make public any information concerning the scope of the
activities of the Fund without the lapse of an adequate period of
time but under the circumstances I hope that you will be able to
make an exception in this instance.
Very sincerely yours,
(signed) Robert F. Wagner

378

379
October 19, 1939

My dear Senator:

I have your letter of October 19, in which you
refer to recent discussions on the floor of the Senate
with
reference to the operations of the Stabilization
Fund.
Of course, as the Treasury Department has at all
times made clear, the Stabilization Fund has never been
used to support the currencies of any foreign country but
has been used solely for the express purpose set out in
the statute pursuant to which it was created, namely,

to stabilize the exchange value of the dollar. In connection

with the carrying out of such purpose it has been necessary,
as was explained at the hearings last spring on the bill
to extend the Stabilization Fund powers, for the Fund to

acquire foreign currencies from time to time. I should
like to state, however, that the Stabilization Fund is not
acquiring any currencies of belligerent countries and
is holding only trifling amounts of foreign currencies
of belligerent countries which were acquired long before
the outbreak of the war.
Sincerely,

(signed) H. Morgenthan, Jr.
Secretary.

Honorable Robert F. Wagner
Chairman of the Senate Committee on Banking and Currency
United States Senate
Washington, D. C.

380
UNITED STATES SENATE

Committee on Finance

October 17, 1939.

Honorable Henry Morgenthau, Jr.,

Secretary of the Treasury,

Washington, D. C.

My dear Mr. Secretary:

I should like to inquire - if I an entitled to the

information - whether the stabilization fund is now being
used in connection with the stabilization of the British
pound and the French franc; and whether there is any
stabilization agreement under which WE continue to operate

in conjunction with England and France or any other foreign
countries.

I should also appreciate your viewpoint on another
phase of this problem. I assume that you are continuing
to purchase at 35 an ounce, all foreign gold that is
offered. In view of depreciated foreign currencies, is
not this equivalent to paying considerably more than 035
an ounce so far as the foreign seller is concerned? If we
put our foreign trade with belligerents on a strict "cash

and carry" basis, will it not be likely to substantially

increase this inflow of foreign gold - perhaps to so dangerous an extent that we finally shall practically monopolize the world's gold supply? Would this not seriously
threaten the world's subsequent return to the use of
monetary gold - and thus relatively threaten the ultimate
value of our own enormous gold hoard? Should not the purchase of foreign gold be curtailed and re-priced at least
for the period of the war?
I am not asserting any pre-conceived judgments of

my own in submitting these questions to you. I am simply
seeking information from authentic sources and I shall
greatly appreciate a reply within the next few days.
With warm personal regards and best wishes,

Cordially and faithfully,
(Signed) A. H. VANDENBERG

381

October 24, 1939.

My dear Senator:

I should like to answer in some detail the questions in your
letter of October 17, so as to clarify certain aspects of problems

relating to gold.
You write:

"I assume that you are continuing to purchase at 535

an ounce, all foreign gold that is offered. In view
of depreciated foreign currencies, is not this equivalent to paying considerably more than 35 an ounce
so far as the foreign seller is concerned?"

I am uncertain what you mean by this question. It is subject
to several different interpretations and to make certain that you
obtain the information you ask I will endeavor to answer each of
them separately.

1. Does the question ask whether the foreign seller
of gold receives more purchasing power over goods and ser-

vices here than he did prior to depreciation? If that is

the sense of your question then the answer is "No". The
835 per ounce (less 1/4 of 1 percent) which the foreign
seller of gold receives probably represents less and certainly not more purchasing power in terms of goods and

services in this country than it did before the depreci-

ation of currencies in recent months. Such purchasing
power of 935 in the United States varies, of course, with
changes in prices of goods and services in the United States.
Since most goods and services that can be purchased here by

a resident of a foreign country have risen in price during
the past two months, it follows that the foreign seller of
gold probably gets less goods and services for his 035 now
than he did a few months ago.

2. Does the question ask whether the foreigner can get

more units of his own currency for gold by selling it in the
United States than by selling it in his own country? If this
is the sense of your question, again the answer is "No". We
pay no higher price for gold (allowing for commissions, hand-

ling charges, etc.) than other countries do. After a foreign
seller of gold converts the dollars he obtains for his gold
into sterling, for example, he finds that he has approximately

382

2the same amount of money as he would have had if he

had sold that gold in London. (For a further explanation of this I refer you to pages 7,8 and 9 of my
letter to Senator Wagner, dated March 22, 1939, a
copy of which is enclosed for your convenience.)

3. Does the question ask whether the foreign
seller of gold gets more units of his local currency
for his gold now than he did before the depreciation
of his currency? If this is the sense of the question,
the answer is clearly "Yes". That is exactly what depreciation of a currency in terms of gold means, nanely,
that each unit of a depreciated currency is exchangeable

for less gold.

4. Does the question ask whether the greater number

of units of the depreciated currency which the foreign
seller obtains for his gold can purchase more goods and
services at home than could the smaller number of units

he obtained for his gold before depreciation? The answer
to this question is "Probably yes". Prices in the country
of a depreciated currency do not usually rise as much as

the currency devreciates for a considerable period of time,

if at all. During that period the holder or producer of

gold will got more local goods and services for an ounce
of gold than he did before. But he gets more goods only
if he buys goods at home; furthermore, he gets more goods
for an ounce of gold not because we continue to pay 35
an ounce for gold, but because his own country gives more

units of its currency for an ounce of gold.

When taken in the context of your whole letter one further
possible interpretation of your question suggests itself. You may
be asking whether the recent depreciation of foreign currencies will

of itself lead to an increased inflow of gold. If this is the sense
of your question, the answer is "Probably no". It is, of course, impossible to foretell at this time the total effect of a Europe at war
upon our balance of payments. The specific effect of the recent depreciations of foreign currencies, however, would clearly seem to

operate in the direction of a reduction in gold offerings. Depreci-

ation of foreign currencies vis-a-vis the dollar means that American
goods and services are less attractive to the foreigner because he
must give more of his own currency in exchange for a dollar's worth
of merchandise than fornerly. In other words, the depreciation of
foreign currencies is a factor which operates in the direction of
reducing our exports to and increasing our imports from the countries
involved. Thus the effect of the change will tend to reduce our
favorable balance of trade and consequently such inflow of gold as

may be attributable to our export surplus. It is true that price
changes may in time offset the effect on the relative attractiveness

of foreign and American goods initiated by the depreciation of foreign
currencies. But even in normal times this adjustment usually does not
take place for some time.

-3You ask the further question:

"If we put our foreign trade with belligerents on

a strict 'cash and carry basis, will it not be
likely to substantially increase this inflow of
foreign gold - perhaps to so dangerous an extent

that we finally shall practically monopolize the

world's gold supply?"

The prohibition of credits to belligerent governments may
possibly have the effect of reducing our exports to belligerent
countries. This might in turn reduce the value of our total exports compared with what our exports would be were the prohibi-

tion not included in the Noutrality Act. Were the belligerent
governments to purchase some of their imports from the United

States on credit, a portion of the payments due us might be

postponed. However, whether this postponement would result

even in a temporary reduction in the inflow of gold cannot be
forecast because:

(1) It is not known what proportion of the dollars
used for payments would be acquired from the sale to us
of gold, and what proportion would be acquired from other
sources.

(2) It is not known whether an extension of credits
to belligerents would result in greater purchases from the
United States or whether there would simply be a substitu-

tion of some credit purchases for cash purchases. Only in

the latter instance would it be possible for part of the
inflow of gold to the United States to be postponed. In
the forner case it would mean that the gold inflow would

be the same over the short period of time and would be
greater at some subsequent time when credits were liquidated.

You ask this further question with respect to gold:
"Would this (increased inflow of gold) not seriously threaten the world's subsequent return to
the use of monetary gold - and thus relatively
threaten the ultimate value of our own enormous

gold hoard?"

This war demonstrates, if any demonstration were needed, that
gold constitutes the best form in which foreign exchange resources

can be held. Even under the most difficult conditions of war, belligerent governments which possess gold can buy with it anything

that is for sale.

383

-4The new situation in world trade brought about by the war in
Europe will, of course, introduce some changes in the distribution
of gold among the nations of the world. Belligerent countries will
probably lose gold, but numerous neutral countries, which now have
little gold, may be put in a position to increase their holdings as
a result of improvements in their trade balances. As a consequence,
the war may well have the effect of causing a wider distribution of
gold among the countrics of the world. Such an increase in gold
holdings by many countries would give more countries a stake in the
continuation of gold as a medium of international payments. The
gold producing countries, of course - including the British Empire,
which now produces half the world's gold - will continue to have a
vital interest in the use of gold as a monetary metal.

These considerations, as well as others, indicate that gold will
omerge from this disturbed period with added prestige as the international medium of exchange. For further discussion of the future
usefulness of gold as a monotary motal, you may wish to refer to
pages 16, 17, 18 and 19 of my lotter to Senator Wagner referred to
above.

Your last question on gold relates to a suggested change in
our monetary policy, You ask:
"Should not the purchase of foreign gold be cur-

tailed and re-priced at least for the period of
the war?"

I am not clear whether by re-pricing gold you have in mind an

increase or a decrease in the price of gold. I judge from the context of your letter, however, that you are inquiring about the offects of a reduction in the dollar price of gold.
My views with respect to the consequences of reductions in the

price of gold are fully set forth in my letter to Senator Vagner re-

ferred to above. The discussion appears on pages 13 to 16 of that

letter, and I think it may be appropriately ro-read in connection
with your inquiry.
You raise the question of the advisability of reducing the price
of gold "for the period of the war". Any substantial change in the

price of gold which is known to be temporary would have seriously dis-

rupting influences on trade and international capital flows. It would
introduce a still greater risk element in business relations with foreign countries and would, moreover, increase world speculation in

dollar exchange.

I now turn to the question in your letter referring to the
Stabilization Fund.

384

385

-5You write:

"I should like to inquire - if I am entitled to the

information - whether the stabilization fund is now
being used in connection with the stabilization of
the British pound and the French franc;and whether

there is any stabilization agreement under which we
continue to operate in conjunction with England and
France or any other foreign countries."
When I appeared before the Senate Committoe on Banking and

Currency last March, Senator Taft raised the following question:
"Suppose there is a foreign war and suppose you go out
and do what you can to buy (2,000,000,000 worth of

pounds: Isn't the effect of that to give England
the power to buy ^2,000,000,000 worth of goods in

this country under the cash and carry provisions?"

I would like to reaffirm the position which I took at that
time. Ny reply was, and still is, as follows:
"Senators, if there is a war in any foreign country,

before we would USC the stabilization fund or any
money in the Treasury to assist any country in prosecuting that war, I would come up before the proper
committee and ask for guidance."

The stabilization fund is not acquiring any currencies of
bolligerent countries and is holding only a trifling amount of
foreign currencies of bolligerent countries acquired long before
the outbreak of the war.

I trust that this furnishes you with the information you
requested.

Sincerely,
Enclosures.
(Signed) HENRY MORGENTHAU, JR.,

Secretary of the Treasury.
Honorable Arthur H. Vandenberg,

United States Senate.

000

386

October 19, 1939

My dear Senator:

Since Mr. Foley talked with you the other day concern-

ing the activities of the Stabilization Fund I have received
a letter on this subject from Senator Wagner, copy of which I

am enclosing, together with copy of my reply. I think this
covers the point in which you were interested.

If additional information is needed I shall be happy

to furnish it.
Sincerely,

(Signed) H. Morgenthau, Jr.
Secretary.

Honorable Alben W. Barkley,

United States Senate.

Enclosures

Proposed statement for Senator Barkley.

387

(

A question has been asked as to whether the Stabilization Fund will be

used to assist a belligerent country in prosecuting the war. This identical

question was raised and answered during the testimony of the Secretary of the
Treasury before the Senate Committee on Banking and Currency last March. It
might be recalled that Senator Taft raised the following question: "Suppose
there is a foreign war and suppose you go out and do what you can to buy

$2,000,000,000 worth of pounds: Isn't the effect of that to give England the
power to buy $2,000,000,000 worth of goods in this country under the cash and
carry provisions?" The following discussion then took place:
"SECRETARY MORGENTHAU. Senators, if there is a war in

any foreign country, before we would use the stabilization fund
or any money in the Treasury to assist any country in prosecuting that war, I would come up before the proper committee
and ask for guidance.
"SENATOR TAFT. I have no doubt you would, perhaps. But

nevertheless, the authority granted in this extension would
give you power to do that, would it not, if you did choose
to do so?

"SECRETARY MORGENTHAU. To do what?

"SENATOR TAFT. What I suggested: To buy pounds, and in

effect, create an English credit here of $2,000,000,000; and we
would wake up, in the end, and find ourselves with $2,000,000,000
worth of pounds that were worth nothing? I am not asking
whether you would do it. My question is whether that is not

legally possible. Isn't that legally possible?

"SECRETARY MORGENTHAU. Well, if I lost all sense or reason

in the performance of my duty, I might do a lot of things.

"SENATOR TAFT. In other words, it is legally possible?
"SECRETARY MORGENTHAU. Well, a lot of things are legally
possible, which you would not do under the rule of common sense."

I am authorized by the Secretary of the Treasury to state that he wishes
at this time to reaffirm the position he took last March and that he wishes
to repeat that before the Stabilization Fund is used to assist any country
in prosecuting a war he will come before the appropriate committees of the
Senate and House of Representatives and ask for guidance.

I am also authorized to state that currencies of belligerent countries
are not being purchased by the Stabilization Fund and that the present trifling
holdings in the Stabilization Fund of currencies of belligerent countries were
acquired a considerable time prior to the war.

388

October 24, 1939

Secretary Morgenthau

Messrs. White and Foley
Senator Wagner inquired by telephone as to the Department's position

on Taft's amendment to the Neutrality Bill to limit the stabilization fund's

holdings of the currency of any belligerent to no more than $50,000,000 at
any one time. We feel that the Department should indicate to Senator Wagner
its opposition to Taft's amendment for the following reasons:

(1) When Congress extended the stabilization powers it was fully
conscious of the possibility or probability of a war in Europe.
There is accordingly no need at this time for Congress to reconsider the problem and to limit the stabilization powers.
(2) Senator Taft questioned the Secretary about the use of the
stabilization fund in the event of war. The Secretary said that
before he would use the stabilization fund to assist any
country in prosecuting that war he would come up before the
proper committee and ask for guidance. This procedure would

permit greater flexibility than Taft's proposal in dealing with
an emergency situation in which it might be greatly in the
interests of this country to purchase the currency of a belligerent in amounts greater than $50,000,000. By going to the congressional committees the Treasury could ascertain the views of
Congress without the publicity and delay involved in getting
new legislation.
(3) If we do not indicate our opposition to Taft's amendment, there
is likelihood that other amendments would be offered prohibiting
the stabilization fund from purchasing any belligerent currency

and in effect nullifying its use during the war.

If you agree with the foregoing, we can give these views to Senator
Wagner orally.

(Initialed) E.H.F., Jr.
H.D.W.

APPROVED:

October 25, 1939

H. M., Jr.

389

Phone conversation between HM,Jr and Vandenberg Oct.25 at

11:15
a.m. was attached. It 1s now filed separately in
the diary.

390

Phone
between HM, Jr and Vandenberg on Oct. 23
at
9:45conversation
a.m. was attached.
It is now filed separately

in the diary.

391

Telephone conversation between HM,Jr and Senator Vandenberg

at 2:50 p.m., October 24, 1939, was attached. It is filed
separately in the diary.

8